The Syndicate

Full disclosure: all emotion past #3411 (https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 00#p863436) was faked. Miz is correct in saying it was AtE - I very, very, very rarely intentionally AtE as town because I believe in presenting a better, logical argument if I have one. In this case, the stars aligned and I had both an excuse to AtE (a genuine burst of frustration at the start of the day from questionable voting decisions) and someone who was very easy to influence by AtE and who I judged would not listen to me if I did not AtE.

So I went for it. Worked out. Juliets messaged me at one point to ask me to tone it down, so I did.

Scum case on Gavial

- He voted town over scum D1
- He defended Tess and Mizery a bunch
- He tried to convince Wisp that Alison/Gira was the solve
- I was the one who crossvoted Mizery in an F5 where I could have easily crossed a townie or bided my time
- Mizery was obviously tilted at how Wisp was being swayed by me
- Gavial doesn't actually explain any of his assertions as to why X or Y is scum indicative, necessarily a bus, etc, he just claims it is

Gira wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:47 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:21 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:20 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:15 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:11 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:08 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:07 am

Self-spew analysing yourself tho.

Lmao.

Can you refute it though?

First you'd have to provide evidence for me to refute.

But yes, given I have you maybe paired with other people not Wilgy or Falc.

Who do you have me paired with?

Tess.

1 of Wisp/Gira.

Maaaaaaaaaybe Miz.

Wisp and Gira are both hard spewed not partnered with me from D1. Miz has been consistently siding against me.

can you explain where mizery was siding against you? i'm not sure i get this

Miz had me in POE the entire game, refused to ever townread me, was on opposite sides to me EOD1, and voting offwagon D2, after I specifically said everyone should make their stance on Alison vs LC.

Gira wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:14 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:54 am I always thought Illwei was obvious town when they were town and Mizery doesn't seem obvious town here.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:39 am What if we just farmed our Mizery read out to Esooa

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:39 am I think it's actually insanely helpful to make Esooa lead the way on Mizery

i have to ask why you were okay farming the read out if esooa was in your POE? @Alison

Because Esooa being in the POE means we resolve Esooa soon, and then either we know the read was in good faith or Esooa/Mizery is outed. In general you want to force POE people to take strong stances on each other, as it makes it really awkward if they're scum together: you can see how I mention, slightly later on, that I say "there's a slight chance Mizery/Tess are scum together, but I'm ok with that possibility, because Tess is POE regardless so we can flip her and then see about Mizery". Tess and Mizery are dating IRL, so if Tess is town, it makes her read on Mizery pretty likely to be correct because they know each other well.

Yes, but *this* phase you were angry about Wisp being swayed into voting Mizery. You have no reason to feel angry about that unless Wisp's decision denied you a chance at a quick win - from your perspective, if Mizery and I were mafia, you should feel apathetic about me being "unreasonable" with Wisp in order to sway him.

This sentiment echoes Mizery's own sentiments; Mizery constantly tried to convince Wisp that I was using AtE to sway him, claiming that I was doing the kind of AtE that "makes everyone feel like shit". This reflects genuine frustration that the game-winning misexe for her is slipping away as a result of tactics that she doesn't like, and an attempt to try to get me killed in order to win in F5. It also reveals that I am town, as she is suggesting that I am resorting to AtE in order to convince Wisp to vote a certain way, when if we are W/W a wolf dies either way and there is no reason for wolf Alison to push so hard in an attempt to strongarm Wisp, nor is there a reason for Mizery to be so frustrated that Wisp is swinging towards voting her instead of me.

Both Mizery and Gavial's actions reflect a genuine upset that Mizery was voted over me, and their shared feeling on this subject suggests that it was a sentiment that developed in scum chat. Most likely, they expected an easy F5, and me crossvoting Mizery and strongarming Wisp into voting her threw a wrench in their plans; hence their frustration and insistence that Alison is playing dirty.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:39 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:53 am

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:12 pm Like I’m bringing up a million points on how Alison is scum and Alison bringing up almost next to none on me.

Like she should not win here, she isn’t even playing that well that she can play.
I swear if you vote me and we lose and Alison brought like nothing else new to the table I’m going to flip.

I’m not like evil Alison and I won’t blame you for the lost but I’ll be disappointed you aren’t seeing all the evidence that points to Alison being the scum here.

Just so you know this guy is a chronic post game salt machine and him denying it here is proof that he is mafia trying to project disappointment in a reasonable way

Town Gavial would have completely lost his mind and started yelling about how you're all terrible

Check the smilies dvc for proof

Oh no Alison I am salty.
Salty that I’m not going to go up to the same level that your at.
I’m not gonna be like how you were with Wisp I’m going to be reasonable. Something you AREN’T this game.

Only a mafia member angry that their teammate was voted would be pissed off by what I said to Wisp. If you knew last day phase was wolves crossvoting you should rightly not feel angry about Wisp being swayed one way or the other.

Also yes me voting Mizery D1 proves I am town because Mizery was in severe danger, it was a very close race between Dizzy and Mizery. That was the important vote, and in that vote, I voted a wolf and Gavial voted a town. If I'm scum here I'm obviously powerwolfing so it makes no sense to bus D1 when the vote is so close.

Gavial wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:12 pm Like I’m bringing up a million points on how Alison is scum and Alison bringing up almost next to none on me.

Like she should not win here, she isn’t even playing that well that she can play.
I swear if you vote me and we lose and Alison brought like nothing else new to the table I’m going to flip.

I’m not like evil Alison and I won’t blame you for the lost but I’ll be disappointed you aren’t seeing all the evidence that points to Alison being the scum here.

Just so you know this guy is a chronic post game salt machine and him denying it here is proof that he is mafia trying to project disappointment in a reasonable way

Town Gavial would have completely lost his mind and started yelling about how you're all terrible

Check the smilies dvc for proof

Ping me if you have any questions Gira I'm not reading nonsense like "Alison points out Mizery could be wolves with Tess means they're partnered"

All i see is that d1 was town vs wolf wagons and I voteparked the wolf and left and you pushed the townie for no reason to make sure the wolf would live

Ping me if you need anything, else I'll let you do your reread in peace.

EoD1 should be enough evidence to prove Gavial is mafia

Wisp wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:56 pm Gira and Alison went at it, that's a good look
but then you need to remember Gira got randomly re-evaluated because of emotion
something she did not give to literally anyone else for a while

He got re-evalled because he STOPPED using emotion and made a post with actual good thoughts in them.

Wisp wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:21 pm all this shading and Alison has just been as wrong as all of us
Gira feels completely disconnected, but im going to go reread Gira's lylo playstyle in Artemis again

I was wrong on Gavial. Basically everyone else was wrong on him too.

I was wrong on LC. I don't feel bad about it given the way LC was playing but I was wrong on him. Some people were also wrong on him, including you. Others weren't. I'll take that as an L.

I was absolutely right on Dizzy and Wilgy, especially D1, and the people that shaded my reads on them (ie. you) were in the wrong.

I agreed with consensus in most other cases so that's a wash.

Did you actually count the number of times I've been wrong or are you just saying this to make it psychologically easier to convince yourself I played badly?

I bet Wisp votes no in league of legends surrender votes when the game is clearly lost

I really dislike the way you go about solving games but at least you're using reason now so go you

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:53 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:36 pm

Gira wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:26 pm Ive been trying and im not going to say it isnt stressful that no one understands me or even thinks I'm not trying or not saying anything when i am

ohh you are stressed? lol...
you weren't stressed when you tried to hammer town Ender, or placed your lock vote in F7

Not to mention Alison had no problem with Gira’s vote.

the energy of this post accurately sums up the current game state

why not

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:23 pm This theater is all very amusing, but does Wisp actually have anything left to investigate or are they just stalling for the sake of stalling?

Repeating my question

Mizery wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:24 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:23 pm This theater is all very amusing, but does Wisp actually have anything left to investigate or are they just stalling for the sake of stalling?

I like when you're condescending towards me

This isn't condescension. If I wanted to be condescending, you'd know it.

Mizery wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:23 pm I am serious when i say rn that I don't know why Alison is alive if she and tess aren't w/w due to things I have talked with Esooa about before

No you aren't.

This theater is all very amusing, but does Wisp actually have anything left to investigate or are they just stalling for the sake of stalling?

Vote Mizery then

In case you are willing to listen to reason again here is a question for you.

Tess was willing to claim parity cop and commit suicide just to get the game into LyLo. We were wondering why she would do this. The only reason would be if she was confident town would not be able to nail 2 mafia in a row if we got to LyLo, and that reaching there would essentially be an auto win.

She wouldn't do this if the team was me/Gira or me/Mizery. She would only do this if the team has Gavial on it as he was widely trusted. Gavial cannot be scum with me obviously, and cannot be scum with Gira (Gira would have hammered me if so). Therefore the only possible scum team is Mizery and Gavial.

Gavial wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:13 am @Alison
Do you know how bad you sound right now?
Your using close to the same reasons you did on Lime Coke.
You’d think you would be more cautious and have learnt the lesson not to repeat the same mistake.
But your gonna vote someone for making bad plays regardless of alignment and shame not only them but another person as well?

What if they happened?
Let’s pretend you weren’t wolf.
What if the team was Miz and Gira?
Would you have shamed me for voting you?

Like I’m sorry but that’s such a terrible reasoning on your behalf.
And honestly kinda Rude.

Not every player is gonna play to the level you’d wish them to play to.
Check out my last game where Falcon and LC weren’t there at the time I wish they were and flanked for most of the game.
I knew both were town and made sure they knew each other were town instead of them pushing each other.
I’m not gonna vote them out because “PL is good in LYLO” like you seem to think it is.

Now if you voted Miz due to some comparisons you found of them related to Tess then yeah.
That’s a good reason and you might take Wisp over and Wolf Win.

But I refuse to lose to a wolf that’s going on this level i a repeating pattern that I’ve called out previously to go power wolf on the win.
You ain’t doing that in my game Alison, sorry.

Voting out LC was not a mistake. Imagine how bad this LyLo would be if he was here.

I kill people I deem to be threats to town regardless of the color of their role card. I am not afraid to soak my hands in the blood of townspeople on my way to burn down the mafia. If a slot has decided to work for the other team I'll treat them as an enemy.

In this case my "policy" votes killed someone who was being extremely anti town and another has landed on a mafia member. I am quite satisfied with them.

Have you forgotten me asking Tess what her read on Mizery is and Tess going "I think Mizery is very likely to be town"

If you have the audacity to side with Mizery and Gavial here for the most batshit reasons ever concocted then it will be proof that I was right to vote you on Day 1 because you have been working for the wolves the entire game.

Imagine being snowed under by Gavial because of tone when he is mech outed with someone that has quickhammered the parity cop

If I was deciding this LyLo I would have made up my mind ages ago. There's a reason I came into this day voting Mizery and it's because I know that a sane townie would never allow them to get away with that play. If you do then, well, it's not quite trolling but it is stupendously bad play.

Why not? It's a crapshoot anyways at that point in the game.

Or they might just had Miz carry it since most trackers don't bother tracking someone who's under heavy pressure in the thread

Point is, when the scum team is 3 people, "I was tracked nowhere N1" is not an argument

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:03 pm i guess the tracker thing is a good point
unless u decided to be spicy for no reason

They probably just had Tess carry the kill since shes outed if tracked anyway

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 106&t=2180 most recent wolf game
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... &start=200 most recent town game

You don't understand that the win condition listed on the town role card is "kill all the mafia", not "keep all the town alive".

There are townies where if you kill them the game is instantly solved.

There are townies where if they are left alive they will block you from killing mafia.

It is pointless to regret killing these townies.

Sure, you can't punish everyone who does -EV shit, and you only Quick thinks they are all scum.

But at some point I reach an equanimity where I understand that their alignment doesn't matter and that the only way to advance the game in the proper direction is to kill them. It doesn't matter or not whether they are town. Being afraid to kill someone because you don't want to be embarrassed when they flip town is way more ego-driven than just mechanically executing someone because you realize it is +EV for town either way.

This is why I instructed those who believed the me/LC thunderdome was T/T to vote one of us anyway. Because guess what? We would be fucked 10x harder if LC was in this LyLo with us.

My philosophy is to punish players for doing -EV shit regardless of alignment. I have done it before and I will do it again. If someone acts like a third impostor I will treat them like one. If I can't treat them like one then I will tell them straight to their face that they are griefing.

It may shock you to learn that I don't play like this to buff up my ego. There are many games where I am content to lay back and be a follower or work together with a towncore. I play in every game the way in which I think is optimal for that game. This game was desperately in need of someone to tell people what to do, and so I did it.

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:33 pm it didnt matter, Tess was already going to quick hammer as soon as she got around to it
and most of Mizery's iso is just -ev town shit
another large problem in this game

@Mizery
honestly, she is right, I should fucking bury you for not only doing it once, but twice

It mattered because Mizery put Ender at L-1. That is not something a townie does because it is as good as hammering Ender if you are wrong on him.

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:30 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:25 pm I wouldn't even be annoyed if you had said something like "well, you were wrong on LC, and both LC and Ender said you had to die, so I'm policying you". It's not a sin to be wrong in LyLo and it's fair to want to vote me off for that. Wrong vote, but that's life.

I am specifically annoyed at your choosing of the worst possible reasons to suspect me, especially the part where you thought it was scummy for me to be upset with people for ruining my game.

you don't get to speed vote in lylo, and pretend that even if there exists many problems with this game and their players
that you don't add to the long list of problems, while playing in a petty way

I do necessarily think that makes you wolfy, and I don't agree with either Mizery or Arrow, that you haven't been re-evaluating
else I wouldn't even still be thinking about the possibility of you being town here

and Gira makes a good point about what makes you very unlikely to be a wolf with Tess

My speed vote was correct and I was never voting anywhere but Mizery after she pulled that stunt with Ender. There is no benefit to ever holding my vote there. It is strictly correct if I am never changing my mind because it maximizes time for town to solve the dichotomy.

You have to be extremely egoistical to pretend as though I was creating problems for the game when I voted properly and continued to play the game properly. If you have a problem with my actions I suggest you lay it out with me right now exactly what I did that was trolling.

In the world where the team is Mizery + Gira, and Gavial + me + you are all town:

Your actions are worse than Gavial + mine's combined.

Gavial's sin was to tunnel me.

My sin was to tunnel LC.

These things are bad but they aren't something to blast someone over. Everyone tunnels badly from time to time and I don't begrudge you your vote on Dizzy for example.

The reason why you are worse than the two of us combined is because you saw Mizery + Tessepia quickhammering Ender together, and instead of punishing Mizery for it, you decide to quickhammer yourself the next day.

That is why I made that remark.

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:23 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:22 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:20 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:19 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:17 pm or gira is a wolf and alison is not
and I can wipe my hands from this game lmao
still wouldn't hate Arrow in the case
it is what it is

Alison's vote is just as bad as Arrows in my opinion

If that is the world we live in then your vote is worse than both of us combined.

what

In that world the sins that me and Gavial have committed are simply to tunnel someone falsely

But what you did was to watch a wolf blatantly set up a townie to be quickhammered and instead of murdering them for it you decide to copy their methods the following day phase

ya im still lost

No you aren't. You know exactly what I'm talking about because I said that already at the start of the day phase and you were in that convo.

I wouldn't even be annoyed if you had said something like "well, you were wrong on LC, and both LC and Ender said you had to die, so I'm policying you". It's not a sin to be wrong in LyLo and it's fair to want to vote me off for that. Wrong vote, but that's life.

I am specifically annoyed at your choosing of the worst possible reasons to suspect me, especially the part where you thought it was scummy for me to be upset with people for ruining my game.

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:20 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:19 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:17 pm or gira is a wolf and alison is not
and I can wipe my hands from this game lmao
still wouldn't hate Arrow in the case
it is what it is

Alison's vote is just as bad as Arrows in my opinion

If that is the world we live in then your vote is worse than both of us combined.

what

In that world the sins that me and Gavial have committed are simply to tunnel someone falsely

But what you did was to watch a wolf blatantly set up a townie to be quickhammered and instead of murdering them for it you decide to copy their methods the following day phase

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:17 pm or gira is a wolf and alison is not
and I can wipe my hands from this game lmao
still wouldn't hate Arrow in the case
it is what it is

Alison's vote is just as bad as Arrows in my opinion

If that is the world we live in then your vote is worse than both of us combined.

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:08 pm Ok so while I was at work I was thinking of the possibility that Alison is bussing Mizery and I think if that is the case it’s a good play on their part but fucks us (especially me) over.
Because in that case:
Mizery goes over (-) Alison is in a great position tomorrow and I’m in the worst one i had all game
Alison goes over (-) they kill me and Wisp votes Gira and we lose.


@Wisp
Remember if I die tonight, don’t instantly vote Gira, make sure it isn’t Mizery! Treat them as equals don’t just lock town Miz because Alison voted them.

I really really hope you are town so I can kill two birds with one stone.

Mizery wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:04 pm Excited to see alison's case on me

I've already written it.

No.

I hope Gira is scum so they come back, end the game, and you can see the error of your ways without delay.

I'm done arguing with you Wisp.

This is why I voted you D1.

You don't listen to reason.

I don't know what it is you listen to but it isn't reason.

Currently I see you as a more well-mannered Gavial in terms of how you play the game.

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:44 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:42 pm yeah you're right

mizery has done something

mizery quickhammered the parity cop

no, Tess did that
wolf!Mizery's play there makes zero sense to me

Putting Ender at L-1 is equivalent to hammering him because Tess' vote was off him. Don't be dense.

yeah you're right

mizery has done something

mizery quickhammered the parity cop

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:41 pm Well AtE is technically wolfy
correction: Not everyone emotion is appealing, is closer to what I want to convey

Better.

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:40 pm for the record, AtE is not wolfy
lets just get that straight here, everything is contextual, even if you hate it

It is inherently wolfy because anyone with a good argument would give the argument instead of spewing emotion everywhere. Town do it sometimes but all townies do wolfy things sometimes. It is never good for the town and it is never a good argument.

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:37 pm at this point I dont care
Losing or winning this game
an experience is an experience

from my PoV you are not how I think an "Experienced Player" should handle the game
also I very much dislike shading dead townies

anyways, put that case for Mizery out

I've put the case out. My case is that Mizery is scum the team isn't Alison/Gira and the D1 interactions prove it's not Alison/Gira.

If you choose to vote someone who has done literally nothing except vote with Tess all game AND who quickhammered on D3 over the pair that is hard unpartnered from D1 because your ego is enormous and you cannot handle me telling you that it was a bad idea to quickhammer 15 minutes into the day then go ahead.