The Syndicate

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:39 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:39 pm

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:36 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:35 pm

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:33 pm But go ahead shoot me. Lose one of the decent role sets town has.

ok, setting aside your limited availability b/c of your job, does it often take you 2 or more days to get into a game and really start playing/interacting?

I'm very much more of an end game player. Early game sucks for me because I need vote records to go off of. Along with getting a better idea of how people post I can sometimes make reads based on interactions but it is much more difficult for me.

I’m more of a mid game player that goes off of vote records, which is why I’m so sus of you.

We have 2 flipped wolves, which is invariably HUGE info (provided they’re real) and yet you’re all over nook for…gut feeling?

The vote records ALSO show him being wolf as fuck.

his votes are me, scotty twice, gnome, and ender. That doesn't seem horrific given that one of the scotty votes was the Prosecutor, the vote for me was b/c it was kinda obligatory, and then ender flipped wolf.
So really it's just the gnome who wasn't really townie, and the second scotty vote that you can "hang a wolf read on"

At least that's what I'm thinking.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:35 pm as opposed to just leaving her alive and letting her push the same reads for me?

Hi mac, I acknowledge you are posting

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:33 pm But go ahead shoot me. Lose one of the decent role sets town has.

ok, setting aside your limited availability b/c of your job, does it often take you 2 or more days to get into a game and really start playing/interacting?

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:03 pm Something else would be the fact that Ender had him as IDK on D1 but suddenly moved him to town D2 with what I consider fairly flimsy reasoning. Called the Nanook squabble with Michelle a reason to hardspew him as town when said squabble was like 4 posts and very minor. And after that Ender just seemed to completely ignore his existence.

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:57 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:21 pm

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:10 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:07 pm

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:04 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:03 pm gonna do listo next

My entire thing can be summed up as "Nanook bad people yeet him"

why is nanook bad?

I find his supposed "town meta" wolf in general and then its just something about his posting feels off to me. It's nothing concrete but it feels right to me.

ngl I'm gonna need more than feelies on this.

Even if you're just rambling, talk to me about why you think his posting feels off.
I get that you find his "town meta" wolfy. I'm not looking for you to drop some concrete bombs that nanook is a wolf here, but more than a feeling would be fantastic

Besides the sweeping, not really solving. I found the start of D2 to be more trying to sow confusion than actually solve. He is interacting with people without interacting with them. Honestly, trying to articulate reasons is extremely difficult for me. Those would be the 3 biggest I can think of.

Something else I just thought of before pressing post was he knows his iso looks bad but isn't really trying to do anything to look better.

Thanks listo, I appreciate it.
Lemme think on this for a while. Like I don't think there's only 4 wolves, but I think I want to chop you after Martin/Triple.

What are your thoughts on Martin/Triple, and do you think all our flips have been legit thus far?

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:10 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:07 pm

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:04 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:03 pm gonna do listo next

My entire thing can be summed up as "Nanook bad people yeet him"

why is nanook bad?

I find his supposed "town meta" wolf in general and then its just something about his posting feels off to me. It's nothing concrete but it feels right to me.

ngl I'm gonna need more than feelies on this.

Even if you're just rambling, talk to me about why you think his posting feels off.
I get that you find his "town meta" wolfy. I'm not looking for you to drop some concrete bombs that nanook is a wolf here, but more than a feeling would be fantastic

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:04 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:03 pm gonna do listo next

My entire thing can be summed up as "Nanook bad people yeet him"

why is nanook bad?

gonna do listo next

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:03 pm I am now realizing that I said I would ISO Nook today.











I am now realizing it again.

If you do read it it's unlikely you'll come away with a take outside of "yeah, sure, nanook can be poe i guess."

I came out of it with "nanook just town".

going through Nanook ISO.
He starts out as typical nanook, is sick, is slanking, is not AI for him at all.
He comes in, sheeps alison and mac on ender, that's a good look. It's only a bad look if nanook is teamed with ender and one of alison/mac b/c he would know ender isn't going over d1. Will have to check the vote movements (I think someone posted them already?)

That's about all he does D1.
D2 he starts with saying to re-read the flips b/c michelle might not have been a wolf given falcons role. Could be either wolfy sewing paranoia or townie being paranoid, kinda depends on how he pushes that narrative throughout the day.
he and I have an argument on whether or not michelle or falcon is the more likely NK. Nanook says michelle I said falcon. The way falcon was poking at Ender in DVC tells me they were not paired, and I believe the ender flip more than I believe any of the flips other than mine. Falcon is the townie in this death bucket for sure. Michelle might have flipped "wrong" but I'm not putting stock in that.

Then he talks about alison being kidnapped and whether or not that's from mafia, town, or what, and whether or not alison should be granted NK immunity again. He says she should have it, I agree, she's like just town.

Then the "kill scotty for free" thing happened with the Prosecutor. Nanook says to take that. I also agreed with that. I think scotty is town now given how he's played the last day and a half, but at the time it seemed like a reasonable thing to explore.
Kinda thinking the prosecutor is mafia based on my town read of scotty.

I claim the red on TSP, nanook says checks are unreliable, but later says "he'll follow the mech" when determining who he thinks is most likely wolfy. Kinda sus on that but overall I do town read him throughout D1/2

D3 sheeps alison and mac on gnome, gnome flips town. Alison/mac/nanook open wolfing pack? highly doubtful. nanook pocketed by one of those two? if he is it's alison and he does "hard town read her" so eh? maybe?
Don't think alison is a wolf though so maybe just a meld between the three of them.

Kinda want to just say nanook is town here and move on.

drops my poe to Martin, Triple, Listo

listo95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:23 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:15 pm So we've reached the everyone has identical reads grab a lawn chair stage

It's an unhealthy threadstate but also we... could just be right?

Imma keep doing those ISOs tho

I'm essentially the odd one out with Nanook as my main wolf read lol.

why do you think nanook is wolfy? Like he hasn't really registered on my radar at all, which is pretty typical for nanook lately.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:15 pm So we've reached the everyone has identical reads grab a lawn chair stage

It's an unhealthy threadstate but also we... could just be right?

Imma keep doing those ISOs tho

zombies naturally follow the crowd

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:15 pm ISOing TH

-never mentions Ender until d2, where they don’t have a read on him. Very helpful
-helpfully offers many mech things that mafia might be able to do, like how kidnapping works
-has that weird inside info with honey about something bad happening to her and “did it trigger”. Honey implied it was mafia, and TH also said it was mafia, but she doesn’t push it, so I guess she assumed everything was all hunky dory with their giggly whispers. This is probably that “soft claiming” that TH says they did. I have no earthly idea what that is, but it means nothing to me.
-unapologetically leads the ‘HK is bad’ homecoming wagon
-homecoming is canceled
- d3:

TripleHaven wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:22 pm Yeah resolving d1 is correct here, I agree with everything people have said about it

i'm unyeetable today btw

this

seems like someone with a working gun would be wise to shoot TH

I wish I had a gun to shoot TH with

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:03 pm So basically Scotty is actually town soz
And Alison
And Dolby
And Mac
And prolly LC

And call me crazy but I think Flea might be town

So pull an overeager AoPS mafia god wannabe and kill everyone else?

my town bucket:
me
alison
mac
dolby
scotty
flea
lime
c4e

poe:
martin
triple
nanook
listo

I'm least comfortable calling c43 and lime town mostly b/c creature didn't do much of jack and I don't remember much of what Lime has posted. Ender flip, if legit, spews creature slot town though.
of the poe nanook and listo are the two I'm least confident in being wolves for pretty much teh same reasons as c4e and lime being town

Kinda feel like if we chop through that poe from top to bottom we're gonna win

friendos the above posts are why scotty is town

TripleHaven wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:09 am

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:12 pm

TripleHaven wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:08 pm scum get your grimey hands off martin

alison, mac, flea, myself. How many wolves in that set?

Probably just flea, alison if I'm really tinfoiling

alright, talk to me about why flea is a wolf if you can. My impression of Flea is that they've been alright, kinda middle of the road in a townie sort of way.

What are you town reading mac off of? His votes over the last 1.5 game days?
why tinfoil Alison?

TripleHaven wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:08 pm scum get your grimey hands off martin

alison, mac, flea, myself. How many wolves in that set?

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:40 pm I'm mid Mac ISO

Mac buried hk D2 and he's alive and not a wagon

Someone tell me if there's a greencheck here or something

mac didn't bury me lolol

anyways, I'm gonna go eat dinner, iso a bunch of people, and give a solve

so the question becomes is Martin bad at mafia or is Martin trying to trade himself for me?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:59 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:49 pm kinda want to kill you more than I want to kill TH

I'm not sure why I should be under TH for you.

You want to kill someone who seemingly had been on you since D1 and then gets all excited about the possibility of you being scum d2? (From what I could get from skimming)

Like I'm having a hard time here telling if you're being good here or not. At first I read that "I was amazingly towny" assertion to be good tone but now I feel like you're trying to dig into it and frame your whole red-check-turned-false & self-vote play as favorable as it can be for you to make up for things you did not think of at first, such as not really naming who you think is suspicious for pushing you on d2 when you've said you thought wolves were taking advantage of you.

It really feels suspicious to me and makes me wonder if you just happened to flip what you did.

annnd this is why I want to kill you.
You're hyperfocused on me which is like weird as fuck given that my early game was townie, then I died, then came back to life and you're harping on me saying "I think wolves need to kill me here" and like why?
I wasn't even HERE for a full game day (1.5 game days if you include that there was open night chat the night after I died) and there's so many other people you could (and should) be engaging with and yet here you are seemingly pushing me?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:07 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:41 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:02 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:44 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:22 pm @hollowkatt why did you self-vote at one point?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:24 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:35 am [VOTE: HK] auberginebut sure, since I'm effectively useless I'm the right kill for today. Wolves won't ever kill me b/c I'm a potential mischop every day. I have to be resolved now.
glgl

I mean, I get this but what brought you to the belief that you were never going to become town core or something more secure?

There was no way I wasn't dying D2 after TSP flipped town.

I opened the day with a naked vote on TSP, made a red check joke type post later, got called on that, doubled down, and rode that hard till TSP flipped.
There was literally no way possible I was going to be "town core" let alone alive after that.

Like ok, dude says "x is a wolf and I have a red check that proves it" and then x dies and flips town in what universe do you say "that's ok dude, you can still be super town" even though yes, my D1/2 play is incredibly townie.

Okay I guess but I feel like with a game that's explicitly bastard among other things

and the fact that's kinda balsy for a wolf to do on d2

anyone voting you for that would be suspect

also there's the fact you didn't offer to claim a role and potentially just be resolved by soup-kill anyways instead of costing a town day elimination

I think I would've handled that a bit differently and not self-vote but I think your tone about it now says you're probably being genuine here

no, you resolve the guy who claimed a red on someone who in thread flipped town as soon as you can.
Like yeah, I was insanely town D1/2, but that check "proving" false means I'm now suspect in some way to virtually everyone, and wolves can take advantage of that. Me dying takes that away from them. And now that I'm back they basically have to kill me again.

Okay, first, I want to correct that I said you didn't full-claim. That's false, I accidentally skipped a page in your ISO with a ctrl-f search of "cop". I also did some more contextual research.

You've said this twice now. Why are you emphasizing this?

This is obviously an over-simplification, but in principle this always applies unless mechanical clear. Even so, this is a bastard game. I'm not sure many people can blame you unless they want to be foolish or wolfy.

I'm struggling to understand this. Where's the wolves then if you think they were taking advantage of this and pushing you? I mean, I feel like you would say this before or after you got yeeted. The only one I saw was like, mac, and I thiiinnnkk that was before the check claim? Not sure.

And I'm not sure they have to do this unless it comes to, like, final three. Only reason to do so is if they wanted a kill with minimal spew since you claimed to being vanilla-ized after being ressurected after a supposed town flip.

kinda want to kill you more than I want to kill TH

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:42 pm Can someone explain to me why @Alison got night immunity (almost) three nights in a row?

D1 she was super townie
Then she was kidnapped and we thought it would make sense to NK immune her b/c we weren't sure if the kidnapping would "wear off" before day break (and therefore make her eligible for the NK) or not.
Then I died and stopped reading

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:02 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:44 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:22 pm @hollowkatt why did you self-vote at one point?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:24 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:35 am [VOTE: HK] auberginebut sure, since I'm effectively useless I'm the right kill for today. Wolves won't ever kill me b/c I'm a potential mischop every day. I have to be resolved now.
glgl

I mean, I get this but what brought you to the belief that you were never going to become town core or something more secure?

There was no way I wasn't dying D2 after TSP flipped town.

I opened the day with a naked vote on TSP, made a red check joke type post later, got called on that, doubled down, and rode that hard till TSP flipped.
There was literally no way possible I was going to be "town core" let alone alive after that.

Like ok, dude says "x is a wolf and I have a red check that proves it" and then x dies and flips town in what universe do you say "that's ok dude, you can still be super town" even though yes, my D1/2 play is incredibly townie.

Okay I guess but I feel like with a game that's explicitly bastard among other things

and the fact that's kinda balsy for a wolf to do on d2

anyone voting you for that would be suspect

also there's the fact you didn't offer to claim a role and potentially just be resolved by soup-kill anyways instead of costing a town day elimination

I think I would've handled that a bit differently and not self-vote but I think your tone about it now says you're probably being genuine here

no, you resolve the guy who claimed a red on someone who in thread flipped town as soon as you can.
Like yeah, I was insanely town D1/2, but that check "proving" false means I'm now suspect in some way to virtually everyone, and wolves can take advantage of that. Me dying takes that away from them. And now that I'm back they basically have to kill me again.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:38 pm as opposed to just leaving her alive and letting her push the same reads for me?

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

hey mac, seems like you're stuck in a loop there buddy.
Can you quote things and if so, can you quote why nanook ought to go here?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:22 pm @hollowkatt why did you self-vote at one point?

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:24 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:35 am [VOTE: HK] auberginebut sure, since I'm effectively useless I'm the right kill for today. Wolves won't ever kill me b/c I'm a potential mischop every day. I have to be resolved now.
glgl

I mean, I get this but what brought you to the belief that you were never going to become town core or something more secure?

There was no way I wasn't dying D2 after TSP flipped town.

I opened the day with a naked vote on TSP, made a red check joke type post later, got called on that, doubled down, and rode that hard till TSP flipped.
There was literally no way possible I was going to be "town core" let alone alive after that.

Like ok, dude says "x is a wolf and I have a red check that proves it" and then x dies and flips town in what universe do you say "that's ok dude, you can still be super town" even though yes, my D1/2 play is incredibly townie.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:36 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:23 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:18 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:00 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:58 pm I'm actually confused with what HK has come back to say but at least it's nice to have a resurrected town?

what's confusing and what can I do to help clear any confusion?

What has been said in DVC? Like the whole "I flipped wrong" shit that's been said by a few people in that. It's making this difficult as hell to solve.

brief synopsis/highlights:
Falcon/Ender conversation about how Ender can't read Falcon
Ender claimed his flip is wrong and he's town. Thinks Dolby is a wolf.
Michelle claimed her flip is wrong and she's town. Thinks Alison might be a wolf.
Honey thinks Alison is a wolf and thinks Scotty is a wolf (I think)
Mansnicks thinks Scotty is a wolf
TSP didn't really say much of anything other than my check was wrong.
LoMo said hi, then I left dvc

I'm sure I'm forgetting things, please don't take this as an exhaustive list.

In a game with strict OGI restrictions and mod killing, I have no idea how any of this is allowed.

Because it’s literally outside of the game.

But aight let’s get matrix up in here

as dvc isn't spoiled it's still functionally in game. Like there's no way for me to know who in dvc was telling the truth or not

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:20 pm A raw claim of "I flipped wrong" doesn't prove anything. Genuine town will claim they flipped wrong if they did flip wrong. Genuine mafia will lie about flipping wrong just to mess with town. If HK has a strong read on who in DVC was lying, we can listen to that. Absent that, the best way to proceed as I have mentioned is to build worlds where X is town, and then build worlds where X is mafia, and compare the worlds: is anyone scum regardless of the flip? Whose alignments are dependent on/chained to each other? Who has a difference check with someone else?

For a period of time I played exclusively flipless mafia: this is one of the strategies used to try to coherently gamesolve in the absence of flips. Since "I flipped wrong" doesn't tell us anything, we can almost treat slots like Michelle and Ender as being psuedo-flipless and try to suss out either their alignment or the alignment of those associated with them through worldbuilding.

I agree with Alison here. Obvs wolves are going to lie about their flip obvs town won't lie about their flip.
Personally I believe Ender and Michelle flipped accurately.
Michelle tried arguing that Falcon was killed by town and that mafia killed Michelle and I don't believe that.

I wouldn't try solving via "who flipped wrong" though as down that path lies madness

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:18 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:00 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:58 pm I'm actually confused with what HK has come back to say but at least it's nice to have a resurrected town?

what's confusing and what can I do to help clear any confusion?

What has been said in DVC? Like the whole "I flipped wrong" shit that's been said by a few people in that. It's making this difficult as hell to solve.

brief synopsis/highlights:
Falcon/Ender conversation about how Ender can't read Falcon
Ender claimed his flip is wrong and he's town. Thinks Dolby is a wolf.
Michelle claimed her flip is wrong and she's town. Thinks Alison might be a wolf.
Honey thinks Alison is a wolf and thinks Scotty is a wolf (I think)
Mansnicks thinks Scotty is a wolf
TSP didn't really say much of anything other than my check was wrong.
LoMo said hi, then I left dvc

I'm sure I'm forgetting things, please don't take this as an exhaustive list.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:07 pm MIchelle flipped a framer role so if you red checked TSP and he flipped town I'd lean towards assuming he was framed rather than some wild theory about being able to fake a green flip on a mafia who's daykilled.

what are the odds michelle and I both target TSP N1

Guillo wrote: x2 Killing Framer
The killing framer may at night target a player. The killing framer will kill one random person who targets that player with a night action on that same night (except for investigations), in addition to making your target immune to the person's actions that night. If targeted by investigation actions, your target will show as opposite alignment. If targeted by multiple people, no one dies.

Michelle would have targeted TSP to frame him yeah? Then I'd have to target TSP to investigate him as a wolf and the only reason I didn't die is b/c I investigated him instead of did something else.
Sure, not out of the realm of possibilities

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:03 pm

lost monkey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:29 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:41 am

lost monkey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:34 am @hollowkatt @TonyStarkPrime If you have any important info please share it in a single post in your chat.

Huh? What chat

discord chats.

LoMo said this, clearly indicating that he had a medium-type ability, and was shot at night.

This strongly implies that at least one of the flips is fake and the mafia team did not want LoMo to reveal that dead people are claiming they flipped wrong.

It probably also makes the soup kill a little more likely to be real because if the soup kill was faked the mafia team could use their real soupkill on LoMo instead of wasting a nightkill on him. I'm not sure why LoMo was shot if the soup kill was real, given that it states they lost their factional ability - it's possible that they have extra KP, or some kind of conditional killing ability in that world.

ok, that makes a lot of sense then. Also implies that TSP flipped his accurate role, meaning my results were fucked with (if we assume I am town)

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:58 pm I'm actually confused with what HK has come back to say but at least it's nice to have a resurrected town?

what's confusing and what can I do to help clear any confusion?

people who died and their in thread flips

people who've died at "night"
falcon - town
michelle - wolf
Honey - town
LoMo - town

People who died during the day NOT chopped
Seanzie - town - Died shooting a gun
TSP - town - shot by dolby
Ender - wolf - liar claimed by dolby

Chops
mansnicks - town
HK - town
Gnome - town

Flips I think are accurate and why:
mansnicks - I have seen him play exactly this way as town. Don't think I've seen a wolf game though
honey - was obvs town. if honey is actually a wolf she's like god tier at being town
seanzie - his wolf game is vastly different than what he played here
Ender - I have been lie killer like that before and it would take some catastrophic fuckery to be incorrect
Michelle - I think her play was super wolfy, talked briefly about that earlier today
HK - duh
Falcon - I felt their play was town, none of the pushes they made struck me as being advantageous or looking for town chops. Falcon town feels right to me

I have no idea why LoMo would have been targeted last night over literally anyone else? I guess you'd avoid alison/mac (if they're town) for doc dodging, but with all the other fuckery running around being able to force a kill through doesn't seem out of the question for a wolf team here, so why not take a shot at either of them?

TSP I'm torn on. Obvs they flipped town in the thread, but also I did have a red on them so someone fucked with something there. TSP did maintain he was town in DVC. Ender and Falcon had a bit of a spat about how Falcon thinks ender can't read him well, but that's probably not AI.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:49 am On the topic of possibly faked flips: could Gnome have been scum?

it's possible, maybe? Like their play wasn't super townie and they weren't super engaged, but I've seen gnome do that as town before as well where they're just kinda floating around the thread doing whatever they want to.

I'm leaning towards trusting the flips in general b/c that's literally all the information that we have to go on. If more than 1 flip is inaccurate I'm not sure how we solve this game.

Also also, do you think town or maf kidnapped you and why?

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:01 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:59 pm I expect to eat the NK tonight. I'm functionally confirmed town now (not that I wasn't D1/D2 b/c I was neon sign obvs town)
I really want to chop TH today, that's where I'm going to be pushing. The way the handled me D2 is just ultra butts.

I see the opportunistic way they went about it, and I do understand your vitriol, but i entreat you to broaden your horizons from them. I also think they could be, but im having a very good feeling about listo today.

What are your thoughts on listo?

I don't really have any. Give me a bit to read them and i'll give you some thoughts.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:01 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:57 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:32 am Re: Michelle and Ender both claiming to be town, I'd assume anyone that flips mafia would claim that in DVC to confuse any townies who might be resurrected or communicate with living players.

I had a strong townread on Michelle D1: she was in her town meta, and her town meta is polarized. She also makes far more sense as the nightkill than Falcon. Conversely, the wolves submitting Bomb Maker on me suggests that they thought I blew up the person who visited LoMo, which means they probably knew a scum flipped that day. If the soupkill is faked, it's possible Michelle is town.

Whereas I think the Michelle flip is legit. The way she was handling me didn't make sense as someone who was trying to solve my alignment, the way she backed off based on someone elses recommendation (I think it was you actually) and yeah, I just trust that flip

Do you trust the Ender flip?

I'm torn there. I was town reading Ender D1/2, didn't pay much attention at all D3 on account of being dead.
Like Ender was solving and playing what i thought was a pretty townie game.

That said, I've HAD dolbys "kill a liar" role before and had it kill me when I used it b/c the post I thought was a lie wasn't.
Dolby fired off his action on the post where Ender said he was town, ender died. Ender flipped wolf. For that all to happen and ender to still be town takes a level of fuckery I don't think exists as it makes the game functionally impossible to play.

So yeah, that's a roundabout way of saying I do believe ender flipped his alignment and role.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:33 am I don't think there's any evidence pointing towards Ender being town. For Ender to be town, either Dolby is scum with a daykill and a faked soup on himself, or Dolby was insanified and Ender was death-framed. Both possibilities seem unlikely.

clearly there's some fuckery about though. Case in point my red on TSP. That wasn't faked yet he flipped town. So either I was insane but didn't know it, or TSP flipped wrong, or someone else impacted that investigation.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:59 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:49 am On the topic of possibly faked flips: could Gnome have been scum?

I swear to god I hope not.
If there’s some sort of janitor role..ok. But how many goddamned JOATS with that same role are there? Is it someone with a 3-shot ability?

Also why was HK even allowed to go to dead chat with others if there are RESURRECTIONS in this game? How do we know HK flipped town? How do I even know I’m town. My role card says it, but can I even trust that? Is my dog real? ARE MY FEET REAL JFC

DVC is unspoiled, have your existential crisis somewhere else

I expect to eat the NK tonight. I'm functionally confirmed town now (not that I wasn't D1/D2 b/c I was neon sign obvs town)
I really want to chop TH today, that's where I'm going to be pushing. The way the handled me D2 is just ultra butts.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:32 am Re: Michelle and Ender both claiming to be town, I'd assume anyone that flips mafia would claim that in DVC to confuse any townies who might be resurrected or communicate with living players.

I had a strong townread on Michelle D1: she was in her town meta, and her town meta is polarized. She also makes far more sense as the nightkill than Falcon. Conversely, the wolves submitting Bomb Maker on me suggests that they thought I blew up the person who visited LoMo, which means they probably knew a scum flipped that day. If the soupkill is faked, it's possible Michelle is town.

Whereas I think the Michelle flip is legit. The way she was handling me didn't make sense as someone who was trying to solve my alignment, the way she backed off based on someone elses recommendation (I think it was you actually) and yeah, I just trust that flip

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:25 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:12 am Why was lomo killed? That’s another odd choice with the falcon one.

Also if that were mafia kill, the soup kill attempt was bogus. I really don’t want it to be bogus and hope that the kill was someone else

That bit is weird. The announcement that mafia lost their NK came directly from the mod, so it can't have been faked by just submitting wrong roles on their own members. I considered the possibility of a mafia member who could alter mod posts, but that seems both overpowered and it's unclear to me why they would try to claim the nightkill was disabled and then use it immediately after.

I would not discount the possibility that the "soup kill" post was a faked modpost. that kind of role is 100% within guillos wheelhouse to create

at least honey thinks Alison is a wolf

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:19 am If all the flips in this game have been wrong then everything I’ve done has been wrong and I quit

ikr
michelle and ender (and I think Honey) wanted you dead/think you're a wolf

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:15 am

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:14 am

any red checks to share with the class?

since I was such a horrible cop my badge has been revoked

That said, both Ender and Michelle maintained in DVC that they flipped wrong, so that's fun.

Michelle said she was the NK and Falcon should ahve flipped mafia
Ender says that he must have been messed with by an insaner, or that dolby was insaned b/c he should have flipped town

TripleHaven wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:20 pm I refuse to believe that hk is town

and I refuse to believe you're this bad at mafia and yet, here we are

TripleHaven wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:12 pm I FUCKING KNEW IT

Doesn't make me a wolf btw ;-)

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:08 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:07 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:04 pm Big sighs

Hk why did you think that was going to be a reliable check

[VOTE: scotty] aubergine its also about time for this i think

yeah, that's a big oof on my part

I mean like

The annoying part is that I pointed this out a couple times


I guess tsp was a poe slot anyways so its not the end of the world or a bad shot in a vacuum but yeah kind of irritating on a personal level

I get that. Not enough to change what I've done, but I get that annoyance

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:04 pm Big sighs

Hk why did you think that was going to be a reliable check

[VOTE: scotty] aubergine its also about time for this i think

yeah, that's a big oof on my part

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:04 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:45 am

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:31 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:42 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:40 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:31 pm

Garden Gnome wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:56 pm

Do you have an actual scumread on me or are you just sheeping HK's bad read?
The dinner does sound delicious, however. The goose, for sure, was cooked.

As I’ve previously cased, I don’t have a strong reason to NOT read you as mafia. TH (I think or maybe it was flea) filled me in that you asking questions and being in the periphery is NAI. I see it as not exactly towncore

You are scum reading me because you don't have a reason not to scumread me? But you also don't have much of a reason to scum read me. Logic isn't really my strong suit, but yours seems to be flawed. It sounds like you have a town core of a few people and then everyone else is scum. In other words, you believe that you are surrounded by scum. Everywhere you turn, there's someone who is not in your town core, and that's yet another scum. You need to build a moat filled with pirhana. Or hide. One of the two.

Do you think you deserve to be considered in the “towncore” of this game? Asking honestly

Probably not. I know that my style looks a bit scummy and that it would take a real leap of faith to put me into your town core. And I also know that people find me hard to read, or so they say.

And I will ask the same question again. Knowing that I tend to play somewhat scummy, regardless of alignment, how do you read me?

I mean I don’t know that you tend to play somewhat scummy, because I don’t think I’ve ever played with you.

In this game, the scummy behavior I see is asking questions, seemingly doing nothing with the answers, and spending the rest of the time talking about your self prescribed scumminess as a defense.
So. I read you as not town-favoring. Scum lean. Could be difference in playstyle approach but if you normally play scummy, that’s…not a good approach to be read…as town.

I don't play scummy on purpose. And, yes, I know that asking questions is considered scummy. But, for me, it has to be considered NAI. I am a journalist, and that's how I gather information, IRL and in mafia games. I don't know any other ways to get people to talk more about themselves and how they are seeing than to ask them questions, preferably open-ended questions and then to either discuss their answers with them or ask follow-up questions.

But what do you plan to do with the information you're gathering? Like that seems to me to be what's lacking

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:49 am

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:46 am I think the biggest thing that sucks here is it's super easy for wolves to vote me b/c "I have to be resolved" even though I do absolutely have to be resolved.

What ALSO sucks is that Dolby made the right shot, but if Dolby were mafia, they also would have made that same shot knowing it would hit town.

Though Dolby bumps up in my ranks because he didn’t have to shoot, coulda left this to be a mislynch on TSP, then we kill you tomorrow

otoh shooting TSP knowing TSP flips town gives them the chance (if you are town) to kill three townies today.
Shoot TSP - flips town makes me absolutely need to be resolved
Chop Scotty via Prosecutor
Chop HK for the day b/c has to be resolved.

I think the biggest thing that sucks here is it's super easy for wolves to vote me b/c "I have to be resolved" even though I do absolutely have to be resolved.