The Syndicate

bimbo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:40 pm is everyone Ready to play now??!

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:44 am good game, gratz to the wolf team. i think alison is one of the best mafia players ive ever played with (i meant in the mafia alignment, i havent seen her town)

sorry for subbing out, it sucks for the game integrity and for the host and for my sub-in. but i just couldnt keep my emotions in check

i feel bad for the way dunya was treated. i dont think it was fair, i remember reading some posts directed at her and i thought they were ugly

i have 9 unread PMs and i feel too anxious to open them, sorry to everyone who PMed me, i just cant bring myself to read them

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:55 am i did you dirty dizzy. and by association i did hally dirty. im sorry i love you both

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:59 am

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:41 am where’s the scum chat located?

ddl posted the link and a few of us joined but then i think maybe mac deleted it bc he was embarrassed? idk lol

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:48 am Also Hally, your self-protect WIFOM would have worked, we wanted to retract the kill on you but timezones meant we were too late and it went through.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:47 am Sorry for shooting you Hally! There was some discussion on whether or not Mac would shoot a new player who just subbed in, and it was totally my idea. Mac wanted to shoot dunya N1. For myself, I've never played on a forum where newness or sub status was ever a consideration in making a shot, so I just killed whoever I thought was the best nightkill. I'll have to change that if I want to start playing here, just in order to avoid spewing people like dunya and Epi town every time I do...

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:33 am This was a pretty challenging game for me, since I lost Rej and Soneji really early on, and the associatives with them weren't the best either (a few players picked those up, too). In addition, all members of the wolf team came under fire very early on and I even scumslipped in my second post in the thread. I really enjoyed it though, because the pressure forced me to really put effort into staying alive. There were many points in the game where things looked grim and I had to just focus on playing as best as I can and putting the outcome out of my mind. (Mac gave us 5% odds of winning at a couple of points throughout the game.)

I suspect the setup is a little scumsided, if nutella blasts half the wolf team away D1 and D2, it should not only take a couple of bad shots to put town on the brink of losing. That was with quite a few of our kills blocked as well.

Thanks to all for playing. I most enjoyed playing with dunya, Hally and tutuu this game and hope to play with them more soon. Mega props to Carot for catching me really early on and never letting go. Proto, I love your playing style, I can empathize with it a lot (although in this case I used our similar thought processes to try to pocket you).

As I said to Mac in the scumthread, I've been really impressed with the friendly community and quality of play here and intend on making this my homesite for the future. Thanks everyone for the game!

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:58 pm I'm mostly just disappointed that I did reach the correct team in the end and would definitely have shot correctly and I just didn't realize we were out of saves, so if I had gotten there just one phase earlier it'd be a win.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:49 pm I am very sorry the game went the way that it did for you Nutella. Basically having the crossvote lylo in your hands for 8 days would be torture. That you managed to do this while putting up formidable efforts in so many other games is incredible.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:55 pm I have never seen TSP curse before I think. Wow.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:33 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:24 pm

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:58 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:46 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:30 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:35 am I’m begging you guys to not waste saves on people not named nutella

I don’t have the energy or frankly the desire to argue until I get my way but any save used on someone that isn’t nutella is a save wasted.

Just follow Nutella’s plan (I believe she put one out, iso her to find it, should be in a reply to me IIRC), and if she didn’t call for you to protect her HOLD YOUR SAVE.

This is shit. Other people need to be protected too. Mafia can pick all the bunkers off otherwise. Get out of here with that.

theres 10 bunkers remaining in the game. 3 plus you will use one on Nutella on Night 1.

Of the remaining 6 bunkers who CAN save, they have a 1/10 chance to correctly land a save. It costs 1 bunker save to try. Thats 1/10 x 3.6 bunker saves. Ev is -0.64 net bunker saves per save attempted. Assuming Aliens land a kill, we then add an addition 3/4 bunkersaves lost.

Pushing people to try and land a save is ANTI town.

Letting a town die unprotected in the night loses us 3.6 bunker saves which is less than if a bunch of people try to land a save. We end up running out of bunker saves to protect Nutella earlier. We effectively trade laser day shots by tryign to bunker save people who only have value in having bunker saves. There is no value is being alive. You can have 10 bunkers alive with no saves left, and town loses.

This isnt to say we should never save, but with this many players in the game, it isnt close.

Then I'm ANTI town.

Deal with it.

I protected nutella, and I will do so the next three Nights in a row unless she herself requests in writing to me that I cease and desist. Then I will comply.

where's the copy paste gimme a sec

if I hear the fucking word anti-town again the conversation is a non-starter.

I don't give two shits about what is anti-town or not, what is anti-town or not is your opinion, it's not fact, and it doesn't help you find wolves so who the fuck cares?

Adapt to play. Lynch wolves. Lynching anti-town people is adjunct. It's not mafia though, it's comparing who has the bigger penis and wolves don't have to play astonishingly anti-town, that's not how behaviour works. So when we get into LYLO with all the wolves who have half a brain and know how to play mafia what are you going to do, bow down to the wolf team and say "wow well played I wasn't able to catch you?" That's coward talk.

Not specifically related to this exact thing about randomly voting at EOD in general. But it's always something that's gonna exist in champs games and has in this game that isn't related to speedvoting at EOD, we just file it under the more political term of "culture clash" and write it up as "the thing that makes champs mafia sided".



wait was this in my game??

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:35 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:40 am idk if im convinced by that case. i agree that proto’s liiiiiiight townread of soneji for his first post wasnt deserved but idk that it strikes me as s/s. and dropping soneji to null after some time had passed and soneji hadnt posted again is reasonable given the town lean was very slight to begin with. the stuff right at EoD where he was like “dont shoot soneji shoot epi and if soneji is maf shoot me” is maybe negative against him because it seems almost intentionally wifomy. but it seems silly to go for that when there was really no point and it was more likely to make him look bad than anything. im not sure what he would think hed gain there

I think it's a load of bollocks.

protocultures wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 am Epignosis – hard alien – it’s a vibe thing, cant explain it.

No effort made whatsoever here. But I am for certain a "hard alien."

protocultures wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 am Soneji – null to very very light town for having looked into strategies as could have done it for either alignment.

This is qualified so many times over I could write a politician's speech with it.

"very very"

Not one "very" will do. Two are needed. We need to be sure we understand that protocultures' stance on Soneji is not to be taken seriously.

"light town"

Again, we need that adjective in there to ensure that people are clear this isn't one to take to the bank.

"for having looked into strategies"

I looked into strategies. I discussed and debated them. I got no such credit for this. Instead, I'm judged guilty due to "vibes." Soneji had maybe, what, half a post at the time?

"as could have done it for either alignment."

Just in case we aren't clear that protocultures isn't happy with calling Soneji good, we have this additional (and awkward) phrase to further hedge from the stance taken.

This is a teammate, folks.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:31 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:26 pm it’s nut’s world we’re just living in it

This world is nuts

Am I as funny as Mac now?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:31 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:58 pm what if i protect myself tonight?

I could think of someone else who would need this if I use my imagination

Rej wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:06 pm Oh so what are the votes used for now? nutella didn't shoot any voted?

EoD was confusing hence, why am I suspected to be scum? I feel there is a cultural misunderstanding.

UPDATE: will keep my PoE from yesterday, GTH I feel not much will change until D2 is running

Rej wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:44 pm wow guys I am catching up and I was overwhelmed, I couldn't really participate in the past 23 hours because I had an appointment at the dentist and she destroyed my whole mouth tho, I feel wasted and one or two different rundowns would be nice
especially maybe one from @nutella , I will try to catch some posts while catching up, I saw I got massively quoted

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:19 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:13 pm aliens are likely to put KP on scummier towns to reduce chance of hitting a save target anyway imo. (snip)

disagree, if they kill the scummier towns they just make our POE cleaner and easier

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:15 pm I mean, if nutella has pre-determined their next day shot, that target could save in the night if they want, but thats asking a lot from Nutella since they lose a whole extra 24 hours of game time to make a read.

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:09 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:08 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:05 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:58 pm what if i protect myself tonight?

never protect yourself at night.

There is 1 KP, which is unlikely to go onto Nutella.

if you save YOURSELF, you spend 1 bunker shot, with a maximum result of saving your 3 remaining bunkershots.

Staying alive with no bunkershots have no value to town. Your only value to town is in your bunker shots.

There are 10 bunkers remaining for Aliens to shoot into.

You need to correct 1 in 10 times for your save to be +EV. You onyl get a 3 to 1 reward ratio. Its -EV to save yourself.

Multiple this by other bunkers trying to save themselves, its massively beneficial for aliens if all bunkers save themselves in the night. It gets them closer to auto by being able to kill Nutella because bunkers dont have saves anymore.

This is why Nanook is saying please dont save anyone other than Nutella. I feel this argument drops off as we get to fewer and fewer players and not exactly sure when, but at thios game state I am like 99% sure saving anyone except nutella is bad.

ok, but im probably gonna do it anyway because i can

well now you said it, its wifom for aliens, but please dont actually.

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:05 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:58 pm what if i protect myself tonight?

never protect yourself at night.

There is 1 KP, which is unlikely to go onto Nutella.

if you save YOURSELF, you spend 1 bunker shot, with a maximum result of saving your 3 remaining bunkershots.

Staying alive with no bunkershots have no value to town. Your only value to town is in your bunker shots.

There are 10 bunkers remaining for Aliens to shoot into.

You need to correct 1 in 10 times for your save to be +EV. You onyl get a 3 to 1 reward ratio. Its -EV to save yourself.

Multiple this by other bunkers trying to save themselves, its massively beneficial for aliens if all bunkers save themselves in the night. It gets them closer to auto by being able to kill Nutella because bunkers dont have saves anymore.

This is why Nanook is saying please dont save anyone other than Nutella. I feel this argument drops off as we get to fewer and fewer players and not exactly sure when, but at thios game state I am like 99% sure saving anyone except nutella is bad.

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:57 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:50 pm

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:37 pm adjusting reads lets see

town:
nut
dizzy
tutuu
tsp

town lean:
proto
epi
carotte
mac
alison

idk:
nanook
dunya
lc

scum:
rej

this is not really ordered except where it is i feel like my reads are not that ground breaking and idk if that should concern me. it wouldnt super surprise me if im wrong on one of the town leans. i highly doubt there is scum at the very top though

talk to me about nanook. Do you agree re not usiong saves on non nutella people in Night 1? This is a hard request from Nanook. Do you think this is pro town or pro alien? Do you think if Nanook were an alien, they even float this agenda? Do you now wonder if I might be partners with Nanook? If not, why not?

Wonder if other people think WE are potential partners since I asked you to talk to me about another person.

wow ok easy with the wifom uhh

idk about nanook. he hasnt done much, but the things he has said have seemed good. but i know he is a champs caliber player so i dont wanna give him a pass for just saying stuff that sounds good sometimes. i think the “nobody use saves on anyone but nut” as well as his insistence on it is more likely to come from town, but it’s also fakable as scum. i just want more solving and less slanking, but i dont imagine i will get that any time soon. for me, of the ppl i would say are more slanking , im like nanook > LC >>>> rej. i would not be shocked to find one or even two scum in these three, but i think nanook is least likely of them to be scum for his attitude

and no i dont wonder that because i think you’rd very likely to be town and thus dont have partners

hes saying stuff thats good and not sure anyone else has said it recently. He might have been the only one that has pushed that agenda of not saving anyone except nutella. I cant remember who first floated the idea and whether anyone else seconded it. Yes its fakeable as scum, but WOULD they say it as scum? Not 100% sure what slanking means, but I assume something like coasting?

Nanook is coasting a bit (and I agree, see my point re asking him to create a list of reads) and we should be applying pressure until we get results.

You should always be suspicious. just FYI, I am well within my mafia range currently. WIFOM that.

protocultures wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:40 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:37 pm adjusting reads lets see

town:
nut
dizzy
tutuu
tsp

town lean:
proto
epi
carotte
mac
alison

idk:
nanook
dunya
lc

scum:
rej

this is not really ordered except where it is i feel like my reads are not that ground breaking and idk if that should concern me. it wouldnt super surprise me if im wrong on one of the town leans. i highly doubt there is scum at the very top though

talk to me about nanook. Do you agree re not usiong saves on non nutella people in Night 1? This is a hard request from Nanook. Do you think this is pro town or pro alien? Do you think if Nanook were an alien, they even float this agenda? Do you now wonder if I might be partners with Nanook? If not, why not?

Wonder if other people think WE are potential partners since I asked you to talk to me about another person.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:36 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:38 am

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:36 am what is salad? educate me in the way of the jaggeds and the jays

It's a tell when someone says "I'd be fine with eliminating player W, X, Y, or maaayyyyybe Z" and it's historically caught scum a decent number of times

Yes, like this:

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 am

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:35 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:15 pm but like does carotenoid ever do this with scum buddy Soneji? Looking for cred?

tsp and i are mindmelding this game and tsp is obv town therefore i am also town. i’ve solved myself \o/

yeah I'm feeling good about towncoring you + tsp + dizzy + epi + probably mac

Spoiler: show

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:31 pmif you have beef you bring it to me with a knife and fork.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:48 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 am

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:30 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:59 am @Hally have you looked at Dyslexicon?

yes, i’m almost positive dizzy is town. i’d like him to be here when im here but... yeah i’d be shocked if he was maf

Oh you're the person who said that. Good good. Have you ever town read Dizzy and been caught out?

as in, been wrong? yes, recently. he was scum for the first time on perc in like 3 years (not even kidding) a few games ago and he fooled me because i had gotten so used to him just bring perma town that i town read him too easily. but that game was also very weird because his role was that he was scum but he didn’t know his two teammates. they knew him though. and if he got yeeted it was an auto loss. so he was both not playing with tmi (since he didnt know the other scum) and also playing with enormous pressure to play well (since his teams success depended on him not getting yeeted). so it wasn’t your average set of circumstances really. i’d like to say i dont think he could fool me under normal circumstances but i dont know this for a fact. but i think generally i can spot his town game from a mile away and i think this is it. if he was scum fooling me i might town read him but more conflictedly

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:41 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:10 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 amOh you're the person who said that. Good good. Have you ever town read Dizzy and been caught out?

We don't talk about that in our family. But really, Hally knows me well and reads me extremely well. I didn't know Hally would sub into this game - If I was scum I would have to play around them being in the game. If I was scum in a game without Hally or people who know me like that, I would be flat and solvy and "make sense" and you would all town read me and I would win. It has happened before. =p

this ^ is also true. dizzy would not fool me here because he never knew id get in the game. when hes scum and im town he actively tries to play around me in a way that makes me town read him. but he cant play around me if im not here. but now i am here, and hes just town always sorry i dont make the rules except here i kinda am

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:50 pm hally, have you ever been fooled by scum dizzy?

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:43 pm current GTH reads

Alison - town (it's a weak one but i read their iso)
Hally - town (i like their eagerness and push from me, but i hven't read their iso yet)
Carotenoid - alien (feels way too reserved, read their iso, also the player salad)
MacDougall - alien (the ate gets to me but im not fully swayed, did not read their iso)
Dyslexicon - alien (just feels too much on the defensive and could be thread environment, did not iso yet)
Epignosis - town (read their iso, and despite the coffee tell. i know epi drinks coffee around 8am every day, eloh tells me so ). i just remembered the last time i lock towned epi in that one game as leetic's partner and he was mafia. rip.
Long Con - town (idk, i think LC loves rolling alien and puts up more of a contribution. also he seemed genuinely bugged by my day 0 suspicions that felt more townie than alien, so i'm gonna go with town)
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - town (not too much meat in their iso, but i realize the game culture nanook comes from now lol)
protocultures - town (the emotion in several of his posts seem very genuine to me, but i could swing both ways here, have not read his iso yet)
Rej - alien (very low presence, dislike, read their iso)
TonyStarkPrime - alien (this is probably my weakest alien feel cos i think most of his posts are town, but the inconsistencies in his reads bugs me without actual thread development, skimmed his iso tbf, he has a lot of posts)
tutuu - lock town

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm Dunya you're scum stop posting

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:32 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:22 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:40 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 pm dunya I noticed your post about how my posts are too eloquently constructed and feel artificial and I don't really know how to respond to that except that all my posts are like that. I strive for logical rigor and consistency in basically everything I do, whether it be real life behavior, town, or mafia. I tend to adopt a more formal tone and that sometimes comes off as artificial or forced. That's all there is to it.

yeah, i know it's no fault of your own. i just tend to townread people who are loose and fast and spontaneous over people who seem to be editing and mulling over their words.

i promise to iso you and try to keep in mind that it's just you're preferred style before i make new and improved poe after soneji's flip.

also, i'm locktowning epi and tutuu.

and i am noting mac's appeal to emotion to get me to change my mind and his flipped reaction in handling me. he is saying i'm an alien in his poe, but treating my suspicion on him as town tunneling him.

but why dont you town read me then? am i not fast and loose and spontaneous? because i feel that description fits me better than almost anyone this game. whats your suspicion on me based on? is it just the dizzy stuff or something else?

i am still undecided on you. i have been reading you as the game progresses, but i haven't iso'd you in succession yet and really weighed out your contributions. i'm going through it. you subbed in on my day off of mafia ;p

you're a great player and im enjoying reading you, but i have no experience what you're like as anti-town. if you're town, i'll probably get there by seeing town motive.

and it wasn't just the dizzy thing, it was how quickly you tried to shade and discredit your "town lean" simply because i don't want to take what you say as written in stone, as though i committed a great big crime. what kind of town player believes everything everyone says as soon as they say it? mafia would be a weird game. why shouldn't one of you or dizzy be lying to me?

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:16 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:05 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:22 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:32 am idk why you wouldn’t just take what i’m saying at face value given how well i know him. you aren’t wrong in the sense that if i was scum here i’d still tr and hard defend dizzy because doing anything less would out myself to him since he’d know i was bs-ing and would never not tr him when he is town. but you don’t know that.

uh, what now? you literally answered your own question. i said you're trying to pocket him. i think i know how to play mafia, so i don't need to know how you usually treat dizzy to make my own conclusions about what you could be doing in your posts. i make my own deductions based on your words and tone

you're approaching me in a very negative light despite never playing with me, or trying to tone read and understand why i am suspicious. if you expect to get an easy TR just cos dizzy told me you're town, that's not gonna happen with me tbh. ;p

yes, but my point is that you jump to the conclusion of me being scum pocketing him instead of the very real and more obvious conclusion that i’m just town who is using my experience with dizzy to accurately town read him. again, i would do the same as scum, but i dont see from your pov why you should weigh scum angle more than the more obvious town angle

sorry, but i don’t feel im being overly harsh or negative or rude to you or anything? you aren’t my main suspect by a long shot, to clarify. im merely suspecting you in a mafia game just as you’re suspecting me. it’s fine and not personal in the slightest on my end, nor do take it personally from you. this is a game and i consider you all my friends even though we’ve only just met!

oh hey, you're awesome and im not offended by you in the slightest! i hope i didn't offend you but if i did, i'm very sorry!

as a town player, i don't give easy town reads to people i don't have experience with tbh. i can't base my reads on someone else's push for me to town read someone. i have to be convinced wholeheartedly of it. why is it strange for you that a townie who's never played with you before would approach you with caution instead of total trust?

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:56 pm From my pov Nanook is ~fine in the same way Rej is ~fine, but I just can't compare his townyness to the likes of Dizzy and Alison and Hally etc.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:40 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 pm dunya I noticed your post about how my posts are too eloquently constructed and feel artificial and I don't really know how to respond to that except that all my posts are like that. I strive for logical rigor and consistency in basically everything I do, whether it be real life behavior, town, or mafia. I tend to adopt a more formal tone and that sometimes comes off as artificial or forced. That's all there is to it.

yeah, i know it's no fault of your own. i just tend to townread people who are loose and fast and spontaneous over people who seem to be editing and mulling over their words.

i promise to iso you and try to keep in mind that it's just you're preferred style before i make new and improved poe after soneji's flip.

also, i'm locktowning epi and tutuu.

and i am noting mac's appeal to emotion to get me to change my mind and his flipped reaction in handling me. he is saying i'm an alien in his poe, but treating my suspicion on him as town tunneling him.