Space Invaders [END]

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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1351

Post by dunya »

Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:22 pm
dunya wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:40 pm
Alison wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 pm dunya I noticed your post about how my posts are too eloquently constructed and feel artificial and I don't really know how to respond to that except that all my posts are like that. I strive for logical rigor and consistency in basically everything I do, whether it be real life behavior, town, or mafia. I tend to adopt a more formal tone and that sometimes comes off as artificial or forced. That's all there is to it.
yeah, i know it's no fault of your own. i just tend to townread people who are loose and fast and spontaneous over people who seem to be editing and mulling over their words.

i promise to iso you and try to keep in mind that it's just you're preferred style before i make new and improved poe after soneji's flip.

also, i'm locktowning epi and tutuu.

and i am noting mac's appeal to emotion to get me to change my mind and his flipped reaction in handling me. he is saying i'm an alien in his poe, but treating my suspicion on him as town tunneling him.
but why dont you town read me then? am i not fast and loose and spontaneous? because i feel that description fits me better than almost anyone this game. whats your suspicion on me based on? is it just the dizzy stuff or something else?
i am still undecided on you. i have been reading you as the game progresses, but i haven't iso'd you in succession yet and really weighed out your contributions. i'm going through it. you subbed in on my day off of mafia ;p

you're a great player and im enjoying reading you, but i have no experience what you're like as anti-town. if you're town, i'll probably get there by seeing town motive.

and it wasn't just the dizzy thing, it was how quickly you tried to shade and discredit your "town lean" simply because i don't want to take what you say as written in stone, as though i committed a great big crime. what kind of town player believes everything everyone says as soon as they say it? mafia would be a weird game. :p why shouldn't one of you or dizzy be lying to me?
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1352

Post by dunya »

protip: if you sign up to a game, sign up to one at a time and don't skip any day.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1353

Post by nutella »

Y'all post too much I'm in three games shut UP k
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1354

Post by nutella »

Dunya you're scum stop posting
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1355

Post by dunya »

current GTH reads

Alison - town (it's a weak one but i read their iso)
Hally - town (i like their eagerness and push from me, but i hven't read their iso yet)
Carotenoid - alien (feels way too reserved, read their iso, also the player salad)
MacDougall - alien (the ate gets to me but im not fully swayed, did not read their iso)
Dyslexicon - alien (just feels too much on the defensive and could be thread environment, did not iso yet)
Epignosis - town (read their iso, and despite the coffee tell. i know epi drinks coffee around 8am every day, eloh tells me so :p ). i just remembered the last time i lock towned epi in that one game as leetic's partner and he was mafia. rip.
Long Con - town (idk, i think LC loves rolling alien and puts up more of a contribution. also he seemed genuinely bugged by my day 0 suspicions that felt more townie than alien, so i'm gonna go with town)
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - town (not too much meat in their iso, but i realize the game culture nanook comes from now lol)
protocultures - town (the emotion in several of his posts seem very genuine to me, but i could swing both ways here, have not read his iso yet)
Rej - alien (very low presence, dislike, read their iso)
TonyStarkPrime - alien (this is probably my weakest alien feel cos i think most of his posts are town, but the inconsistencies in his reads bugs me without actual thread development, skimmed his iso tbf, he has a lot of posts)
tutuu - lock town
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1356

Post by Hally »

dunya wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:16 pm
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:05 pm
dunya wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:22 pm
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:32 am idk why you wouldn’t just take what i’m saying at face value given how well i know him. you aren’t wrong in the sense that if i was scum here i’d still tr and hard defend dizzy because doing anything less would out myself to him since he’d know i was bs-ing and would never not tr him when he is town. but you don’t know that.
uh, what now? you literally answered your own question. i said you're trying to pocket him. i think i know how to play mafia, so i don't need to know how you usually treat dizzy to make my own conclusions about what you could be doing in your posts. i make my own deductions based on your words and tone :biggrin:

you're approaching me in a very negative light despite never playing with me, or trying to tone read and understand why i am suspicious. if you expect to get an easy TR just cos dizzy told me you're town, that's not gonna happen with me tbh. ;p
yes, but my point is that you jump to the conclusion of me being scum pocketing him instead of the very real and more obvious conclusion that i’m just town who is using my experience with dizzy to accurately town read him. again, i would do the same as scum, but i dont see from your pov why you should weigh scum angle more than the more obvious town angle

sorry, but i don’t feel im being overly harsh or negative or rude to you or anything? you aren’t my main suspect by a long shot, to clarify. im merely suspecting you in a mafia game just as you’re suspecting me. it’s fine and not personal in the slightest on my end, nor do take it personally from you. this is a game and i consider you all my friends even though we’ve only just met!
oh hey, you're awesome and im not offended by you in the slightest! i hope i didn't offend you but if i did, i'm very sorry! :hugs:

as a town player, i don't give easy town reads to people i don't have experience with tbh. i can't base my reads on someone else's push for me to town read someone. i have to be convinced wholeheartedly of it. why is it strange for you that a townie who's never played with you before would approach you with caution instead of total trust?
okay thats good to know! :hugs:

i understand being wary of new ppl, i can be the same way when new ppl play on perc. and i understand it also since dizzy has talked up my scum play so much (which he will hear from my lawyer about). ig my own personal bias is to think im very obvious when im town. so maybe that colored my reaction to you. but i do feel that im pretty obvious this game? since even many ppl that dont know me have already said as much. but maybe you just have a different read on me, which is ok. but id like to help clear up any concerns you might have because i want us to find each other if we are both town
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1357

Post by dunya »

nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm Dunya you're scum stop posting
please don't hurt me like that, even though it would be deserved from that time i tunneled you :(
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1358

Post by Hally »

dunya wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:32 pm
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:22 pm
dunya wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:40 pm
Alison wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 pm dunya I noticed your post about how my posts are too eloquently constructed and feel artificial and I don't really know how to respond to that except that all my posts are like that. I strive for logical rigor and consistency in basically everything I do, whether it be real life behavior, town, or mafia. I tend to adopt a more formal tone and that sometimes comes off as artificial or forced. That's all there is to it.
yeah, i know it's no fault of your own. i just tend to townread people who are loose and fast and spontaneous over people who seem to be editing and mulling over their words.

i promise to iso you and try to keep in mind that it's just you're preferred style before i make new and improved poe after soneji's flip.

also, i'm locktowning epi and tutuu.

and i am noting mac's appeal to emotion to get me to change my mind and his flipped reaction in handling me. he is saying i'm an alien in his poe, but treating my suspicion on him as town tunneling him.
but why dont you town read me then? am i not fast and loose and spontaneous? because i feel that description fits me better than almost anyone this game. whats your suspicion on me based on? is it just the dizzy stuff or something else?
i am still undecided on you. i have been reading you as the game progresses, but i haven't iso'd you in succession yet and really weighed out your contributions. i'm going through it. you subbed in on my day off of mafia ;p

you're a great player and im enjoying reading you, but i have no experience what you're like as anti-town. if you're town, i'll probably get there by seeing town motive.

and it wasn't just the dizzy thing, it was how quickly you tried to shade and discredit your "town lean" simply because i don't want to take what you say as written in stone, as though i committed a great big crime. what kind of town player believes everything everyone says as soon as they say it? mafia would be a weird game. :p why shouldn't one of you or dizzy be lying to me?
okay, fair enough. ig i dont see why one of me or dizzy would lie since the other could corroborate if what we say is true? unless you think we’re teamed, but i think you said you didnt?

but anyway, maybe i should stop pestering you about this and give you some space to form a better read on me
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1359

Post by Hally »

nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm Dunya you're scum stop posting
wait really? why?
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1360

Post by protocultures »

Alison wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:09 pm the management of conflict and general "I want you to know that even if I scumread you I still like you as a person" sentiment on this site is a huge breath of fresh air compared to what I'm used to
isnt this implied?
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1361

Post by dunya »

hally, have you ever been fooled by scum dizzy?
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1362

Post by dunya »

Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:49 pm
nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm Dunya you're scum stop posting
wait really? why?
no. she's joking. she knows deep down im town, and she can usually see town dunya, i'm the one who tunnels town nutella. :p

admittedly, this is overwhelmed dunya .
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1363

Post by Hally »

dunya wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:43 pm current GTH reads

Alison - town (it's a weak one but i read their iso)
Hally - town (i like their eagerness and push from me, but i hven't read their iso yet)
Carotenoid - alien (feels way too reserved, read their iso, also the player salad)
MacDougall - alien (the ate gets to me but im not fully swayed, did not read their iso)
Dyslexicon - alien (just feels too much on the defensive and could be thread environment, did not iso yet)
Epignosis - town (read their iso, and despite the coffee tell. i know epi drinks coffee around 8am every day, eloh tells me so :p ). i just remembered the last time i lock towned epi in that one game as leetic's partner and he was mafia. rip.
Long Con - town (idk, i think LC loves rolling alien and puts up more of a contribution. also he seemed genuinely bugged by my day 0 suspicions that felt more townie than alien, so i'm gonna go with town)
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - town (not too much meat in their iso, but i realize the game culture nanook comes from now lol)
protocultures - town (the emotion in several of his posts seem very genuine to me, but i could swing both ways here, have not read his iso yet)
Rej - alien (very low presence, dislike, read their iso)
TonyStarkPrime - alien (this is probably my weakest alien feel cos i think most of his posts are town, but the inconsistencies in his reads bugs me without actual thread development, skimmed his iso tbf, he has a lot of posts)
tutuu - lock town
wow, there is a lot i disagree with here. really all of your alien reads except rej. big rip
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1364

Post by Hally »

dunya wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:50 pm hally, have you ever been fooled by scum dizzy?
yea, mac asked me the same question and i answered already! hang on ill grab it
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1365

Post by Hally »

Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:48 am
MacDougall wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:30 am
MacDougall wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:59 am @Hally have you looked at Dyslexicon?
yes, i’m almost positive dizzy is town. i’d like him to be here when im here but... yeah i’d be shocked if he was maf
Oh you're the person who said that. Good good. Have you ever town read Dizzy and been caught out?
as in, been wrong? yes, recently. he was scum for the first time on perc in like 3 years (not even kidding) a few games ago and he fooled me because i had gotten so used to him just bring perma town that i town read him too easily. but that game was also very weird because his role was that he was scum but he didn’t know his two teammates. they knew him though. and if he got yeeted it was an auto loss. so he was both not playing with tmi (since he didnt know the other scum) and also playing with enormous pressure to play well (since his teams success depended on him not getting yeeted). so it wasn’t your average set of circumstances really. i’d like to say i dont think he could fool me under normal circumstances but i dont know this for a fact. but i think generally i can spot his town game from a mile away and i think this is it. if he was scum fooling me i might town read him but more conflictedly
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:41 am
Dyslexicon wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:10 am
MacDougall wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:31 amOh you're the person who said that. Good good. Have you ever town read Dizzy and been caught out?
We don't talk about that in our family. But really, Hally knows me well and reads me extremely well. I didn't know Hally would sub into this game - If I was scum I would have to play around them being in the game. If I was scum in a game without Hally or people who know me like that, I would be flat and solvy and "make sense" and you would all town read me and I would win. It has happened before. =p
this ^ is also true. dizzy would not fool me here because he never knew id get in the game. when hes scum and im town he actively tries to play around me in a way that makes me town read him. but he cant play around me if im not here. but now i am here, and hes just town always sorry i dont make the rules except here i kinda am :p
[mention]dunya[/mention] here you go
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1366

Post by Alison »

dunya wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:14 pm
Alison wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:04 pm dunya, I mentioned above a bit that I had basically the whole game as null or town. Caro is one of the players I think is suspicious, based on what I raised above about her progression on me. I might have better/firmer scumreads for you after I re-eval but as it stands my PoE is something like [Caro, LC, Rej] or something. Basically just Caro + two people I can't read. Everyone says Rej is scummy but frankly my eyes glaze over so hard when I read the stuff he writes I can't form an independent opinion on him so.
can you take the player list and gun to your head, assign each player as either town or scum?

its a neat exercise where we decide GTH without lots of facts and evidence to back up our reads, what our intuition says.

i love it tbh
This is very far from my usual style but, gun to my head: LC scum, Caro scum, Rej town out of that PoE. For some reason I want to say Dizzy scum even though their mindmeld with me makes me townread them and my feeling towards them is town in general. I don't know why. Everyone else is town probably.

Don't ask me to justify any of this, it's pure guesswork. :P
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1367

Post by Hally »

i dont understand what rej has done to be town for anyone
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1368

Post by Alison »

Rej is actually a null read for me, but dunya asked me to read people gun to head so I just blurted out the first word that comes to mind (town or scum) when I think of their name, without thinking too hard about it. Like I said, don't ask me to justify any of those reads.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1369

Post by dunya »

thanks hally, i didn't see that post. that makes me feel better about your town read on dizzy tbh.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1370

Post by protocultures »

Right – time for an IOA post again, but some of you may glean the inner machinations of my mind.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 50#p617998

for the link to my explanation on my actions prior to Soneji being shot and why I read Epi as scummy.

My reads:

Hally – lock town atm and im okay losing to them if they are an alien. Got to get burned at least once to learn and cant just be paranoid all game because someone said your scum game is amazeballs. Being universally townread when you also subjectively townread them should give you some confidence that the read is correct.

Alison – hard town after shoving the paranoid down re meta dive. Im already deep into your pocket, you can stop calling me town now. I might be guilt of the double “L” issue. Sometimes I will forget, sometimes my phone does weird stuff with spelling, but I will try. Alison probing LC is also towny imo.

Mac – kind of has suspicion on Epi, which is town leaning from my pov. I lean them still towards alien if I had to pick because I dislike their POE shortlist (me, Alison and Carotenoid). Their logic of thinking I am alien partners with Soneji and trying to get the shot onto Epi when it looks like Soneji is likely getting shot, when I know there is flips is bananas. I didn’t read get the lolcat read on their early entrance (some people seem to have had), and assume its confusing as all hell to get dropped into a game. Have now had a chance to evaluate their posts. I didn’t remember Mac pushing Nutella to shoot Soneji that hard, but he is claiming that it happened and nobody is screaming liar liar, so lets assume that was true. So leaning alien, but not high in my POE. Their whole “if you scum read me after I sleep, I am not posting anymore” hostage negotiation seems weird and I expected more from the GOAT. How do you like my naked psychology bait?

Dunya – I was all over the place on them previous day and then they went afk for their birthday. Happy birthday and awesome cake. Still parked for now.

Lon Con – happy they are posting more, but wish they would post even more than they have. Were my number 2 alien due to not participating that much/solving/contributing to help town. Don’t want them in POE as I feel that can develop a read on them if they continue to post. Is open to Epi being an alien and attempted to explain to me why Epi is being townread by the majority of the game for things I think are clear anti wincon for town. Strictly speaking NAI as well, but I want to encourage more engagement with them.

Carotenoid – still gets the towncred for taking the effort to look through the math. Still seems towny to me. Thinks Alison is an alien, which worries me because I have both Carotenoid AND Alison in my hard town circle.

Rej – kinda null on them, they don’t post that much which makes it hard to remember things. Hopefully they post more so I can develop a read.

Dyslexicon – has stopped memeing and is giving content which I like. No strong opinion yet, but I probably don’t want them in POE for day 2. Unlikely to be aliens with Hally for letting new people know Hally has a scary scum game. Quite like most of their list here http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p618094
Wish they didn’t hard defend Epi for being objectively anti town, but giving them a towny mindset which could be faked. Potential partner with Epi.

Nanook – seems hard town for NOT wanting saves to be expended except on Nutella. I hard agree with this from a mechanics perspective at least until the number of players reduces a bit. Its simply too hard to expend a save, and try to save a maximum of 4 bunker shots when you are saving into 12 candidates. It can’t be correct. I don’t think an alien ever pushes this agenda because its anti wincon. Also, are you Clem? “Smart townies make dumb reads literally all the time” – yes, but should they be townread for doing it or scumread?

Tutuu – should be in POE as alien. Their whole explanation for why they read Epi as town is nonsense. Its reads like an entire walkback of their original posts and explains something else entirely. Don’t want to unintentionally trigger them again, but if people are so inclined, I suggest you iso our posts and see if you can follow their thought process and how it links to their posts. Read their earlier explanation vs their final explanation.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p618079

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 50#p618269

Every player will have their own subjective reads. Im not allowed to think something they did is less towny? Originally stated they townread Epi for having a dumb scumread on Tutuu. Now says don’t remember anything, but they had a townread on Epi with still no explanation or reasoning to explain how Epi thought x, and what Tutuu thought about Epis logic to arrive at that conclusion. The fact remains, they still said they townread Epi for thinking Tutuu is scum for a dumb reason. Still hasn’t explain anything at all imo and now just asserts they though epi is town (with explicitly no explanation or inclination to give one), and just says they don’t think Epi is dumb – so really its all waffle. Do we prefer the term salad on this forum? Is this salad?

The takeaway seems to be, you can post something and actually mean something else entirely and other people are supposed to read their mind because they are obvious town? Doesn’t seem very logical to me, I get that some people just aren’t logical and it doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t town. I generally find their continuous narration of their life while posting kind of weird and filler-esque but am trying to force myself to take it NAI.

Tony – still lean them town and wish they would post more. Not just talking post count, talking posts which move me and help me determine alignment with high confidence level. http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 00#p618390
I like stuff like this, because its PRO town. Alien don’t need to do this, its easy to cause chaos in the final hours of the night re protection for Nutella.

Epi – I don’t think people want me to rehash this.

How they perceive me:

Hally – reads me as town with a bad read on Epi.

Alison – reads me as hard town.

Mac – wants to put me into poe, I suspect for my posts near EoD1. Thinks I am weird and fake. I am weird for sure, but fake? I think most people just read me as spewing town. Thinks I am not dumb, and would not tie myself to Soneji if I was an alien, but still thinks I am an alien. I still don’t really understand the final conclusion of why I am an alien to Mac.

Dunya – leans me town.

LongCon – wants me or dizzy to be the laser target. I asked why, but no response yet.

Carotenoid – after some consideration of my alignment, has decided I am town. Good.

Rej – thought I was town yesterday, no idea today.

Dyslexicon – thinks I am town. Good

Nanook – I have zero idea on their view of my alignment. To my knowledge, has never compiled a reads list. Seems kinda weird, but they being universally townread already so maybe don’t feel under pressure to do so. We should force one anyway out of principle of having more info later after more people die.

Tutuu – prob thinks I am town, until I made this post and now likely wants me shot again. <shrugs>

Tony – No idea of their view of my alignment, other than downward spiral re wanting to push Epi.

Epi – thinks I am an alien, still has not given any evidence or logic behind the allegation.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 68#p617568
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1371

Post by Alison »

dunya's GTH reads echo a few of the things I've been harping on and trying to convince people of (proto emotion = town, caro is sketchy) and their read of tutuu as lock town and liking Hally's eagerness are things I like and agree with as well.

Tinfoil is that I am being pocketed. Occam's razor is that dunya is just town and sees the same things I do. (In case it is not clear, I favor the razor explanation.)
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1372

Post by dunya »

i definitely feel like proto is someone who is approaching this game as someone who used to play this game in a different format and i absolutely love it tbh lol.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1373

Post by tutuu »

nutella
tutuu
dunya
alison
hally
proto
dizzy

epi

mcdougall
nanook
carotte
TSP

rej
LC

(sub lists unordered. as in i dont necessarily townread mcdoug more than nanook etc) (i just didnt wanna think about it that much)
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1374

Post by Epignosis »

I'm about two Bibles behind because I sometimes value sleep, but in case no one said anything:


Spoiler: show
Rej wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:39 pm
Soneji wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:57 am People posting too much for a d0 :sigh:
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:18 pm I don't see any need to tell nutella what to do. I would rather nutella just kill someone.
It's not telling, just suggesting.
Alison wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 pm Vote Epignosis

(yes, I know it doesn't do anything, I just want to make it clear what my stance is from day to day)


Making a list of who protects who only gives more information to the mafia about who is unprotected. And mafia wins the game immediately if they kill nutella, so it is completely useless to know who failed to protect her the day after we lose the game. The strategy you are proposing would make it trivially easy for the mafia to win just by attacking the operator on the night where a mafia member is scheduled to protect her. And a public list of who protects who would make it easier for the mafia to know who they can safely kill since there isn't enough heals to protect everyone at once.

It is correct for town to keep when and who they are using their protect on secret so mafia doesn't know who is being protected, if the operator is shielded, and how many protects the town has left.
Why are you preemptively thinking you'll be called out for making a vote, even in a game where they don’t officially matter to the lynch?

The primary goal with the protects isn't to be blocking every shot, just those aimed at nutella. The secondary goal with the protects should be to keep the towncore alive.
tutuu wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:35 am Oh yea i was also thinking of using RNG to determine our protections

like idk the numbers but lets say arbitrarily say 10% , each bunker goes to rand.org or however eas the site, rolls between 1 and 100, if its 1 to 10 they protect nutella, otherwise save their shot. Obv different on even nights and as more of us die but u get the idea. Like, just think of some numbers that will give us good odds, i think its okay to slightly potentially lose the game on the first night if it means bigger chance to win in the end
tutuu wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:41 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:37 am That’s not what we’re doing lol
feels annoying to disparage my idea without even giving it a chance as if its something silly, and as if luck isnt already involved to a degree in mafia
This plan seems too wolfy to be a wolf, especially with the genuine seeming offense to their idea being dismissed.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:08 am
nutella wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:38 pm
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:32 pm
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:19 pm Also, I'm a bunker and I'm always going to be defending nutella. Don't waste your defense on me.
That should say "Don't waste your defense on nutella."
On the multikill nights more people need to protect me though right?

I only vaguely understand the setup....
and if Epi's an alien...
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:11 am
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:48 pm
dunya wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:44 pm
nutella wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:38 pm
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:32 pm

That should say "Don't waste your defense on nutella."
On the multikill nights more people need to protect me though right?

I only vaguely understand the setup....
2 people. You'll be fine. I promise. Epi and dun got ur back gurl
This is over is an alien laser shoots nutella. That's it.

Bunkers have limited protections. After I'm spent, someone else will need to carry on in my stead (or if I get killed).

This is about setting up a network of protections so that it's clear who failed and is therefore mafia.
regardless, I think this is town
Sow doubt on Epi, then swiftly call him town anyways:hmm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:13 am
dunya wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:54 pm We publicly make a list of who protects who. When someone dies we know who lied :p
okay, but I'm not going through with this unless there are at least 2 people defending Nutella and possibly 3

@linki oh yeah and bunker protects are limited. It might be best to save them until endgame and just force the poe to protect Nutella each day
The PoE are almost always going to be the ones you least want protecting the Laser.

Dragomir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:15 am All this strategy talk is hurting my brain. I'm merely glancing at these posts right now.
Drago got replaced so not expecting Mac to answer for this, but yeah trying to act lost here when everyone else is doing fine with mechanics talk, and offering up nothing else besides is a bad look.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:16 am
Dragomir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:15 am All this strategy talk is hurting my brain. I'm merely glancing at these posts right now.
Then ignore mechanics, project town and find scum. We’ll take care of the mechanics.
Good look from Nanook to push Drago into being productive.

Rej wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:27 am Drago doesnt like Spacemovies = bad

Dunya, Alison and Tutu are town GTH, nice energy.
Not excluding the possibility that a wolf is coordinating the mechtalk with others.

Tho nothing else pinged me for now. I am at work, will be properly active later on.
Toss out a few townreads, blanket shade the majority of the game thread, then dip. Whoo boy.

It is likely that there was a wolf participating in the mech discussion just on the probability that one was around to post and that it was the main conversation point, but pointing this out without giving a specific person/s that come off wolfy with their approach to the discussion is just going to sow discord.
dunya wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:34 am
Dragomir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:30 am
dunya wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:24 am I think we should have at least 3 people saving nutella on any given day. The rest can be up to whatever people wanna do and leave it as a mystery for the aliens to misfire. Hunting through nk is hard at this stage if we want to preserve saves. So we can do regular hunting and I think we already have lots of good content to go through.
How do we go about selecting those 3 ppl?
Tony thinks our scummiest 4 should protect her. We coordinate that itt. I understand why, but my scummiest 4 could be the whole maf team gg y'all ;p but yeah, for a day 1 strategy it makes most sense.
I think it works only for a n1 strategy, as the scum team would have to be exactly the bottom #2-5 of the PoE for us to lose there(the very bottom #1 gets blasted by nutella).
protocultures wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 am Hello fellow players. First forum game for me, I am a fairly new mafia player but have played on DM a few times and play the occasional voice/text game over discord. I live in GMT timezone so will probably be out of sync with a lot of you. I draft in word and paste into the forum so hopefully the formatting doesn’t go into the toilet. As editing posts is forbidden, I may repost if this turns out to be a problem.
Spoiler: show
The setup is new to me, so I will state a brief understanding of how this works below. If other people have a different view/better understanding, it would be great if people (or the mod) could let me know.

10 bunkers with 4 saves each who don’t know anything other than Nutella is the Laser.

4 aliens who have perfect information.

Odd nights – 1 alien KP.

Even nights – 2 alien KP till 2.

QUESTION – if player x saves themselves, or player y saves player x, and the town laser is shot at player x, does the laser go through the bunker save?

QUESTION – This is a day 0 start, so does laser get to shoot at the end of Day 0? Does it go to Night 0 or Night 1? This is important to work out alien KP and how many saves should be on Nutella.

QUESTION – can aliens no shoot in the night?

I feel like there is a mathematically optimal solution to this game for every night but I am not smart enough to figure it out.

My proposal for Night 0 or Night 1, depending on which it will be is set out below.

We want the minimum number of saves on Nutella but with some math behind it. These saves should be selected and made public by Nutella and all players who are nominated by Nutella to save Nutella should indeed save Nutella with no exceptions. They need to confirm receipt of the message and confirm they will save Nutella, or Nutella needs to re-nominate someone who has seen their request. This should be entirely elected by Nutella and not depend on people saying they will save Nutella – ie picking into Dunya/Epignosis without rnging them is bad.

The other players should make their saves or no saves in secret, but claim them at the start of the next day along with reasons. Town should never lie about their saves in the night and I am a firm believer of laser all liars in this setup.
If aliens have 1 night KP, I suggest 3 nominated saves and if aliens have 2 night KP, I suggest 4 nominated saves.
See some napkin math below which might be wrong, but lets see if I can still remember combinatronics.
1 Alien KP – need to ensure we land AT LEAST 1 town save, so this is basically any outcome except 3 aliens in the 3 nominations. This is 1 minus (4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12) = 1 – 24/2184 = 98.9% Laser lives through the night. I can accept a 1.1% loss in first night if the benefit is that we get to not waste additional bunker saves.
2 Alien KP – need to ensure we land AT LEAST 2 town saves. This gets a bit harder so please flame me loudly if there is an error in the math so we can try and fix it before we nominate saves (assuming I can get laser and town to buy into my plan).
With 4 nominations, there are 5 outcomes with the following distribution:

4 aliens: 4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12 x 1/11 = 24/24,024 = 0.1% (we lose first night with no saves on Nutella)

3 aliens, 1 town: 4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12 x 10/11 x 4 combos = 960/24,024 = 4 % (we lose first night with 1 saves on Nutella)

2 aliens, 2 town: 4/14 x 3/13 x 10/12 x 9/11 x 6 combos = 6,480/24,024 = 27% (we land 2 saves on
Nutella)

1 alien, 3 town: 10/14 x 9/13 x 8/12 x 4/11 x 4 combos = 11,520/24,024 = 48% (we land 3 saves on Nutella)

4 town: 10/14 x 9/13 x 8/12 x 7/11 = 5,040 /24,024 = 21% (we land 4 saves on Nutella)

I am okay with 4.1% loss in first night.

My current reads/leanings. Cant necessarily justify them all, because its not always rational or justifiable. Its just how their posts make my gut feel.

Alison – hard town. Thinks Epignosis is alien, and agree re full list of saves being anti town.

Bimbo – no posts.

Carotenoid – light alien read for the short intro. Good to know Mac would agree.

Dragomir – null to light town.

Dyslexicon – null to alien for no solve in 3 posts. “game” doesn’t count and I believe is just to appear non-coaster.

Dunya – started off towny, but then slips into hard alien with the later posts. Implied statement that Carotenoid is town “Can't wait to see your super shiny townies self! ;)”, and the hard tunnel onto LC at the start of day 0. Might be a meta thing I just have no idea but could also just be distancing. Then claims laser will be fine because Dunya/Epi will be using their save onto the laser. “2 people. You'll be fine. I promise. Epi and dun got ur back gurl”. This would be fine if they were both exactly town, but how does anyone else know they are both town? We don’t. “We publicly make a list of who protects who. When someone dies we know who lied” – this is also super alien. We should mix the saves into public and private so the aliens do not have perfect info on saves. Dunya in later posts moves back into town. My head hurts.

Epignosis – hard alien – it’s a vibe thing, cant explain it.

Long Con – Alien. Cant believe they called themselves a bunkerman instead of a bunker person. Consider myself triggered. Gets slightly town for thinking that having no saves left day 5 onward is bad but not that much. “We have to assume the aliens will try to kill nutella every night. We will non-randomly arrange protects to ensure, and insure, that she has multiple layers of protection each night. We will do this in a way that eliminates the possibility of unfortuitously picking all aliens to protect her.” Seems towny but to eliminate the possibility of picking all aliens, we need to use a LOT of bunker saves every even night. Also thinks aliens will be trying to kill the laser every night. I hard disagree and think aliens will leave the laser alone all game since its way easier to kill all the bunkers and win that way. On a meta read without ever having played with them, I simply don’t believe someone with 13k posts would think the aliens would be trying to kill the laser every night.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME – light town for thinking a protection scheme can/should exist. Does not want rng factors into the saves onto Nutella and prefers a set scheme TBC. The arguments with tutu re “trolling” seems town on town to me.

Nutella – LASER

Protocultures – the towniest town that ever towned in the history of townhood

Rej – thinks Dunya, Alison and Tutuu are town GTH. No idea what GTH means but I kinda like their town circle.

Soneji – null to very very light town for having looked into strategies as could have done it for either alignment.

TonyStarkPrime – Null to alien. The strategy of 4 most scummy players onto Laser is bad since if we get 3+ aliens, we insta lose. I much prefer a random 4 than we pick the 4 scummiest, especially since aliens will then try to look scummy intentionally.

Tutuu - Medium town. Wants to know if laser gets to shoot Day 0. Wants town to mass rng saves onto the laser and thinks its okay to lose a non-zero percentage on first night to increase overall town win percentage by not blowing all the bunker saves the first 4 days. I agree with this concept. Tutu thinks Dunya is light town and LongCon is town. I think its weird that Tutuu reads LongCon as town for subjectively incorrect logic, but it seems genuine.
The effort shown here, and in their many other posts, along with a solid progression on their reads puts proto as very likely town. I think the best look of all is this first post, where I would think an over eager, new to forum mafia wolf, would just think about impressing with their mechanics/math and forget to actually give proper reads but proto went above and beyond.
tutuu wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:35 am (ioa information over analysis is what i was looking for)
Doesn't surprise me given him saying he is new to forum mafia.
Carotenoid wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:09 am hyijifhinrjdfihbrenjdfhedsi aaaaaaaah multiquote button didn't work bierjnnfierhehuj
*take a deep breathe* it's gonna be okay
anyway

TonyStarkPrime's plan seems to be the best so far, but it's kinda risky to the not-poe-people past n1, if that makes sense. So I propose that we kinda flip it around:

- On odd nights, two top townreads (or like one top townread + 2 midlytownread that can't all be wolves together) protect nutella. And then we could do something like bottom of POE protect the people protecting nutella and all the others only self-protect if they feel the need to.

- On even nights, bottom of POE protect nutella. The rest of the players only self-protect if they feel the need to.

That way, the protection shots are used more horizontally and avoids that town ends up with no shots at the end. Also I feel like unless we specifically coordinate something specific in the thread, bunker shots should only be used on their own slot.
The odd night plan is pretty solid, but the even night is wack. You need to have confidence in there being two town protects in there on even nights. On odd nights needing just one you have more leeway to include the PoE.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:06 pm I also think that nobody except Nutella should be saved, full stop. Including self saves.
How about NO! You crazy Dutch bastard!
Alison wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:32 pm ok, misread the OP - I thought each Bunker could only protect once. Apparently they have 4 shots. Still not enough to waste them on a mass protect of every player in the game.
Misread the OP versus misread role PM:hmm


Coming out of d0 roughly where I'm at :

Good

proto
tutuu
Dunya

Still deciding

Nanook
Long Con
Carot
Dizzy
Bimbo(don't think they posted?)

Bad

Epi
TSP
Alison
Rej
Drago/Mac


As for the strat I think is best : I'm good with the bottom four PoE strat for n1 only, otherwise think top 3 towncore should protect nutella on odd nights, top 4 towncore on even nights. Could mix in some of the middle of the pack to preserve some of the top towncores protects, best to adjust that as we go. On that first night, the middling PoE should use their protects on the towncore. On subsequent nights the bottom of the PoE should be protecting the towncore, with probably a double up on the very top of the towncore. Force aliens to shoot into bottom or middling Poe, or have to use two kills on even nights to kill one towncore and not even the best SPK they could get.

For simplicities sake, will lay out the first three nights :

N1 : Bottom four of the PoE assigned to protect nutella, while the next three lowest PoE protect the top 3 towncore.

N2 : Top three towncore+one middling PoE protect nutella, while the bottom three to four in the PoE protect the top 3 towncore. If four double up on the very top towncore SPK.

N3 : Top two towncore+one middling PoE protect nutella, bottom three PoE protects top three towncore.

With this we can shuffle enough to have top towncore with protects left up until late. It's a small game, so I think people are overestimating how conservative we need to be with protects. By the end of n4, there can be up to 10 deaths if the aliens succeed on both their double kills. Then n5 being an odd night needs only one towncore with a protect left alive to secure nutella's safety.


Now onto d1.
phew this is some wishy washy stuff, you partially have summarizes then try to reason your own opinion, you have a hard time to fit in
that PoE looks good if you flip it by 180 degree and keep Mac at the bottom

talk with me about Epi


Rej looks like a Soneji teammate to me.

"This post looks awful."
"I agree with the heart of it. Here's one little thing I would change."
"Talk to me about Epi."
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Hally
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1375

Post by Hally »

[mention]Rej[/mention] i am begging you to post
Spoiler: show
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1376

Post by Epignosis »

nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:12 am
Rej wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:27 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:32 am
MacDougall wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:29 am im just looking forward to this incoming proto bomb
There is much to look forward to.

Mac, why don't you vote Rej with me? I have irrefutable evidence that he is scum. :grin:
a liiiiiie, and why you suddenly want a supposed scum to vote together with you?
Yuuck nooope
Rej wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:39 pm
Spoiler: show
Soneji wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:57 am People posting too much for a d0 :sigh:
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:18 pm I don't see any need to tell nutella what to do. I would rather nutella just kill someone.
It's not telling, just suggesting.
Alison wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 pm Vote Epignosis

(yes, I know it doesn't do anything, I just want to make it clear what my stance is from day to day)


Making a list of who protects who only gives more information to the mafia about who is unprotected. And mafia wins the game immediately if they kill nutella, so it is completely useless to know who failed to protect her the day after we lose the game. The strategy you are proposing would make it trivially easy for the mafia to win just by attacking the operator on the night where a mafia member is scheduled to protect her. And a public list of who protects who would make it easier for the mafia to know who they can safely kill since there isn't enough heals to protect everyone at once.

It is correct for town to keep when and who they are using their protect on secret so mafia doesn't know who is being protected, if the operator is shielded, and how many protects the town has left.
Why are you preemptively thinking you'll be called out for making a vote, even in a game where they don’t officially matter to the lynch?

The primary goal with the protects isn't to be blocking every shot, just those aimed at nutella. The secondary goal with the protects should be to keep the towncore alive.
tutuu wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:35 am Oh yea i was also thinking of using RNG to determine our protections

like idk the numbers but lets say arbitrarily say 10% , each bunker goes to rand.org or however eas the site, rolls between 1 and 100, if its 1 to 10 they protect nutella, otherwise save their shot. Obv different on even nights and as more of us die but u get the idea. Like, just think of some numbers that will give us good odds, i think its okay to slightly potentially lose the game on the first night if it means bigger chance to win in the end
tutuu wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:41 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:37 am That’s not what we’re doing lol
feels annoying to disparage my idea without even giving it a chance as if its something silly, and as if luck isnt already involved to a degree in mafia
This plan seems too wolfy to be a wolf, especially with the genuine seeming offense to their idea being dismissed.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:08 am
nutella wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:38 pm
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:32 pm
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:19 pm Also, I'm a bunker and I'm always going to be defending nutella. Don't waste your defense on me.
That should say "Don't waste your defense on nutella."
On the multikill nights more people need to protect me though right?

I only vaguely understand the setup....
and if Epi's an alien...
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:11 am
Epignosis wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:48 pm
dunya wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:44 pm
nutella wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:38 pm

On the multikill nights more people need to protect me though right?

I only vaguely understand the setup....
2 people. You'll be fine. I promise. Epi and dun got ur back gurl
This is over is an alien laser shoots nutella. That's it.

Bunkers have limited protections. After I'm spent, someone else will need to carry on in my stead (or if I get killed).

This is about setting up a network of protections so that it's clear who failed and is therefore mafia.
regardless, I think this is town
Sow doubt on Epi, then swiftly call him town anyways:hmm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:13 am
dunya wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:54 pm We publicly make a list of who protects who. When someone dies we know who lied :p
okay, but I'm not going through with this unless there are at least 2 people defending Nutella and possibly 3

@linki oh yeah and bunker protects are limited. It might be best to save them until endgame and just force the poe to protect Nutella each day
The PoE are almost always going to be the ones you least want protecting the Laser.

Dragomir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:15 am All this strategy talk is hurting my brain. I'm merely glancing at these posts right now.
Drago got replaced so not expecting Mac to answer for this, but yeah trying to act lost here when everyone else is doing fine with mechanics talk, and offering up nothing else besides is a bad look.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:16 am
Dragomir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:15 am All this strategy talk is hurting my brain. I'm merely glancing at these posts right now.
Then ignore mechanics, project town and find scum. We’ll take care of the mechanics.
Good look from Nanook to push Drago into being productive.

Rej wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:27 am Drago doesnt like Spacemovies = bad

Dunya, Alison and Tutu are town GTH, nice energy.
Not excluding the possibility that a wolf is coordinating the mechtalk with others.

Tho nothing else pinged me for now. I am at work, will be properly active later on.
Toss out a few townreads, blanket shade the majority of the game thread, then dip. Whoo boy.

It is likely that there was a wolf participating in the mech discussion just on the probability that one was around to post and that it was the main conversation point, but pointing this out without giving a specific person/s that come off wolfy with their approach to the discussion is just going to sow discord.
dunya wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:34 am
Dragomir wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:30 am
dunya wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:24 am I think we should have at least 3 people saving nutella on any given day. The rest can be up to whatever people wanna do and leave it as a mystery for the aliens to misfire. Hunting through nk is hard at this stage if we want to preserve saves. So we can do regular hunting and I think we already have lots of good content to go through.
How do we go about selecting those 3 ppl?
Tony thinks our scummiest 4 should protect her. We coordinate that itt. I understand why, but my scummiest 4 could be the whole maf team gg y'all ;p but yeah, for a day 1 strategy it makes most sense.
I think it works only for a n1 strategy, as the scum team would have to be exactly the bottom #2-5 of the PoE for us to lose there(the very bottom #1 gets blasted by nutella).
protocultures wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 am Hello fellow players. First forum game for me, I am a fairly new mafia player but have played on DM a few times and play the occasional voice/text game over discord. I live in GMT timezone so will probably be out of sync with a lot of you. I draft in word and paste into the forum so hopefully the formatting doesn’t go into the toilet. As editing posts is forbidden, I may repost if this turns out to be a problem.
Spoiler: show
The setup is new to me, so I will state a brief understanding of how this works below. If other people have a different view/better understanding, it would be great if people (or the mod) could let me know.

10 bunkers with 4 saves each who don’t know anything other than Nutella is the Laser.

4 aliens who have perfect information.

Odd nights – 1 alien KP.

Even nights – 2 alien KP till 2.

QUESTION – if player x saves themselves, or player y saves player x, and the town laser is shot at player x, does the laser go through the bunker save?

QUESTION – This is a day 0 start, so does laser get to shoot at the end of Day 0? Does it go to Night 0 or Night 1? This is important to work out alien KP and how many saves should be on Nutella.

QUESTION – can aliens no shoot in the night?

I feel like there is a mathematically optimal solution to this game for every night but I am not smart enough to figure it out.

My proposal for Night 0 or Night 1, depending on which it will be is set out below.

We want the minimum number of saves on Nutella but with some math behind it. These saves should be selected and made public by Nutella and all players who are nominated by Nutella to save Nutella should indeed save Nutella with no exceptions. They need to confirm receipt of the message and confirm they will save Nutella, or Nutella needs to re-nominate someone who has seen their request. This should be entirely elected by Nutella and not depend on people saying they will save Nutella – ie picking into Dunya/Epignosis without rnging them is bad.

The other players should make their saves or no saves in secret, but claim them at the start of the next day along with reasons. Town should never lie about their saves in the night and I am a firm believer of laser all liars in this setup.
If aliens have 1 night KP, I suggest 3 nominated saves and if aliens have 2 night KP, I suggest 4 nominated saves.
See some napkin math below which might be wrong, but lets see if I can still remember combinatronics.
1 Alien KP – need to ensure we land AT LEAST 1 town save, so this is basically any outcome except 3 aliens in the 3 nominations. This is 1 minus (4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12) = 1 – 24/2184 = 98.9% Laser lives through the night. I can accept a 1.1% loss in first night if the benefit is that we get to not waste additional bunker saves.
2 Alien KP – need to ensure we land AT LEAST 2 town saves. This gets a bit harder so please flame me loudly if there is an error in the math so we can try and fix it before we nominate saves (assuming I can get laser and town to buy into my plan).
With 4 nominations, there are 5 outcomes with the following distribution:

4 aliens: 4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12 x 1/11 = 24/24,024 = 0.1% (we lose first night with no saves on Nutella)

3 aliens, 1 town: 4/14 x 3/13 x 2/12 x 10/11 x 4 combos = 960/24,024 = 4 % (we lose first night with 1 saves on Nutella)

2 aliens, 2 town: 4/14 x 3/13 x 10/12 x 9/11 x 6 combos = 6,480/24,024 = 27% (we land 2 saves on
Nutella)

1 alien, 3 town: 10/14 x 9/13 x 8/12 x 4/11 x 4 combos = 11,520/24,024 = 48% (we land 3 saves on Nutella)

4 town: 10/14 x 9/13 x 8/12 x 7/11 = 5,040 /24,024 = 21% (we land 4 saves on Nutella)

I am okay with 4.1% loss in first night.

My current reads/leanings. Cant necessarily justify them all, because its not always rational or justifiable. Its just how their posts make my gut feel.

Alison – hard town. Thinks Epignosis is alien, and agree re full list of saves being anti town.

Bimbo – no posts.

Carotenoid – light alien read for the short intro. Good to know Mac would agree.

Dragomir – null to light town.

Dyslexicon – null to alien for no solve in 3 posts. “game” doesn’t count and I believe is just to appear non-coaster.

Dunya – started off towny, but then slips into hard alien with the later posts. Implied statement that Carotenoid is town “Can't wait to see your super shiny townies self! ;)”, and the hard tunnel onto LC at the start of day 0. Might be a meta thing I just have no idea but could also just be distancing. Then claims laser will be fine because Dunya/Epi will be using their save onto the laser. “2 people. You'll be fine. I promise. Epi and dun got ur back gurl”. This would be fine if they were both exactly town, but how does anyone else know they are both town? We don’t. “We publicly make a list of who protects who. When someone dies we know who lied” – this is also super alien. We should mix the saves into public and private so the aliens do not have perfect info on saves. Dunya in later posts moves back into town. My head hurts.

Epignosis – hard alien – it’s a vibe thing, cant explain it.

Long Con – Alien. Cant believe they called themselves a bunkerman instead of a bunker person. Consider myself triggered. Gets slightly town for thinking that having no saves left day 5 onward is bad but not that much. “We have to assume the aliens will try to kill nutella every night. We will non-randomly arrange protects to ensure, and insure, that she has multiple layers of protection each night. We will do this in a way that eliminates the possibility of unfortuitously picking all aliens to protect her.” Seems towny but to eliminate the possibility of picking all aliens, we need to use a LOT of bunker saves every even night. Also thinks aliens will be trying to kill the laser every night. I hard disagree and think aliens will leave the laser alone all game since its way easier to kill all the bunkers and win that way. On a meta read without ever having played with them, I simply don’t believe someone with 13k posts would think the aliens would be trying to kill the laser every night.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME – light town for thinking a protection scheme can/should exist. Does not want rng factors into the saves onto Nutella and prefers a set scheme TBC. The arguments with tutu re “trolling” seems town on town to me.

Nutella – LASER

Protocultures – the towniest town that ever towned in the history of townhood

Rej – thinks Dunya, Alison and Tutuu are town GTH. No idea what GTH means but I kinda like their town circle.

Soneji – null to very very light town for having looked into strategies as could have done it for either alignment.

TonyStarkPrime – Null to alien. The strategy of 4 most scummy players onto Laser is bad since if we get 3+ aliens, we insta lose. I much prefer a random 4 than we pick the 4 scummiest, especially since aliens will then try to look scummy intentionally.

Tutuu - Medium town. Wants to know if laser gets to shoot Day 0. Wants town to mass rng saves onto the laser and thinks its okay to lose a non-zero percentage on first night to increase overall town win percentage by not blowing all the bunker saves the first 4 days. I agree with this concept. Tutu thinks Dunya is light town and LongCon is town. I think its weird that Tutuu reads LongCon as town for subjectively incorrect logic, but it seems genuine.
The effort shown here, and in their many other posts, along with a solid progression on their reads puts proto as very likely town. I think the best look of all is this first post, where I would think an over eager, new to forum mafia wolf, would just think about impressing with their mechanics/math and forget to actually give proper reads but proto went above and beyond.
tutuu wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:35 am (ioa information over analysis is what i was looking for)
Doesn't surprise me given him saying he is new to forum mafia.
Carotenoid wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:09 am hyijifhinrjdfihbrenjdfhedsi aaaaaaaah multiquote button didn't work bierjnnfierhehuj
*take a deep breathe* it's gonna be okay
anyway

TonyStarkPrime's plan seems to be the best so far, but it's kinda risky to the not-poe-people past n1, if that makes sense. So I propose that we kinda flip it around:

- On odd nights, two top townreads (or like one top townread + 2 midlytownread that can't all be wolves together) protect nutella. And then we could do something like bottom of POE protect the people protecting nutella and all the others only self-protect if they feel the need to.

- On even nights, bottom of POE protect nutella. The rest of the players only self-protect if they feel the need to.

That way, the protection shots are used more horizontally and avoids that town ends up with no shots at the end. Also I feel like unless we specifically coordinate something specific in the thread, bunker shots should only be used on their own slot.
The odd night plan is pretty solid, but the even night is wack. You need to have confidence in there being two town protects in there on even nights. On odd nights needing just one you have more leeway to include the PoE.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:06 pm I also think that nobody except Nutella should be saved, full stop. Including self saves.
How about NO! You crazy Dutch bastard!
Alison wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:32 pm ok, misread the OP - I thought each Bunker could only protect once. Apparently they have 4 shots. Still not enough to waste them on a mass protect of every player in the game.
Misread the OP versus misread role PM:hmm


Coming out of d0 roughly where I'm at :

Good

proto
tutuu
Dunya

Still deciding

Nanook
Long Con
Carot
Dizzy
Bimbo(don't think they posted?)

Bad

Epi
TSP
Alison
Rej
Drago/Mac


As for the strat I think is best : I'm good with the bottom four PoE strat for n1 only, otherwise think top 3 towncore should protect nutella on odd nights, top 4 towncore on even nights. Could mix in some of the middle of the pack to preserve some of the top towncores protects, best to adjust that as we go. On that first night, the middling PoE should use their protects on the towncore. On subsequent nights the bottom of the PoE should be protecting the towncore, with probably a double up on the very top of the towncore. Force aliens to shoot into bottom or middling Poe, or have to use two kills on even nights to kill one towncore and not even the best SPK they could get.

For simplicities sake, will lay out the first three nights :

N1 : Bottom four of the PoE assigned to protect nutella, while the next three lowest PoE protect the top 3 towncore.

N2 : Top three towncore+one middling PoE protect nutella, while the bottom three to four in the PoE protect the top 3 towncore. If four double up on the very top towncore SPK.

N3 : Top two towncore+one middling PoE protect nutella, bottom three PoE protects top three towncore.

With this we can shuffle enough to have top towncore with protects left up until late. It's a small game, so I think people are overestimating how conservative we need to be with protects. By the end of n4, there can be up to 10 deaths if the aliens succeed on both their double kills. Then n5 being an odd night needs only one towncore with a protect left alive to secure nutella's safety.


Now onto d1.
phew this is some wishy washy stuff, you partially have summarizes then try to reason your own opinion, you have a hard time to fit in
that PoE looks good if you flip it by 180 degree and keep Mac at the bottom

talk with me about Epi
yeah these are teammates


(last time I said that in a game I was right :noble: )
nutella already on it. My last post was so yesterday morning. XD
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1377

Post by Dyslexicon »

Long Con wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:24 pm Long Con
nutella
TonyStarkPrime
Hally
Epignosis
protocultures

tutuu
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Carotenoid

MacDougall
Alison
dunya

Rej
Dyslexicon
No. You are better than this. At no point have you tried to sort me or read me. At no point have you even said anything about me than "Dizzy scum". That is unacceptable. No way am I your biggest scum read right now. I have a lot of content and if you have beef you bring it to me with a knife and fork.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1378

Post by protocultures »

Dyslexicon wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:31 pm
Long Con wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:24 pm Long Con
nutella
TonyStarkPrime
Hally
Epignosis
protocultures

tutuu
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Carotenoid

MacDougall
Alison
dunya

Rej
Dyslexicon
No. You are better than this. At no point have you tried to sort me or read me. At no point have you even said anything about me than "Dizzy scum". That is unacceptable. No way am I your biggest scum read right now. I have a lot of content and if you have beef you bring it to me with a knife and fork.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1379

Post by Dyslexicon »

I've only skimmed, but I still like Alison enough to not have her in the PoE. Her posts today have been thoughtful and good imo
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1380

Post by Epignosis »

MacDougall wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 am
nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:33 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:21 am
MacDougall wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:47 pm Actually all three of them are probably mafia lol
why dunya? i have paranoia about her but idk where its coming from
Epi quoted some stuff that looks potentially w/w between her and soneji
After having looked at it again, that stuff is rather meh Tbh a lot of Epi's reads in this game have been him arriving to firm conclusions off pretty random things. Quite a few times he's taken a firm stance on someone and my immediate response was "really guy"? His response post flip was a bit weird too. He's well within his mafia range.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1381

Post by Epignosis »

nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:38 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:36 am what is salad? educate me in the way of the jaggeds and the jays
It's a tell when someone says "I'd be fine with eliminating player W, X, Y, or maaayyyyybe Z" and it's historically caught scum a decent number of times
Yes, like this:
nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:35 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:15 pm but like does carotenoid ever do this with scum buddy Soneji? Looking for cred?
tsp and i are mindmelding this game and tsp is obv town therefore i am also town. i’ve solved myself \o/
yeah I'm feeling good about towncoring you + tsp + dizzy + epi + probably mac
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1382

Post by Dyslexicon »

Nut scum confirmed x10

[mention]nutella[/mention] Do the coffee tell =p
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1383

Post by protocultures »

Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 am
nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:33 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:21 am
MacDougall wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:47 pm Actually all three of them are probably mafia lol
why dunya? i have paranoia about her but idk where its coming from
Epi quoted some stuff that looks potentially w/w between her and soneji
After having looked at it again, that stuff is rather meh Tbh a lot of Epi's reads in this game have been him arriving to firm conclusions off pretty random things. Quite a few times he's taken a firm stance on someone and my immediate response was "really guy"? His response post flip was a bit weird too. He's well within his mafia range.
Something something pot kettle
Examples, explanations, give the spectators something to work with.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1384

Post by Hally »

adjusting reads lets see

town:
nut
dizzy
tutuu
tsp

town lean:
proto
epi
carotte
mac
alison

idk:
nanook
dunya
lc

scum:
rej

this is not really ordered except where it is :p i feel like my reads are not that ground breaking and idk if that should concern me. it wouldnt super surprise me if im wrong on one of the town leans. i highly doubt there is scum at the very top though
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1385

Post by Hally »

Dyslexicon wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:31 pmif you have beef you bring it to me with a knife and fork.
i literally just died
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1386

Post by protocultures »

Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:37 pm adjusting reads lets see

town:
nut
dizzy
tutuu
tsp

town lean:
proto
epi
carotte
mac
alison

idk:
nanook
dunya
lc

scum:
rej

this is not really ordered except where it is :p i feel like my reads are not that ground breaking and idk if that should concern me. it wouldnt super surprise me if im wrong on one of the town leans. i highly doubt there is scum at the very top though
talk to me about nanook. Do you agree re not usiong saves on non nutella people in Night 1? This is a hard request from Nanook. Do you think this is pro town or pro alien? Do you think if Nanook were an alien, they even float this agenda? Do you now wonder if I might be partners with Nanook? If not, why not?

Wonder if other people think WE are potential partners since I asked you to talk to me about another person.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1387

Post by Hally »

Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:36 pm
nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:38 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:36 am what is salad? educate me in the way of the jaggeds and the jays
It's a tell when someone says "I'd be fine with eliminating player W, X, Y, or maaayyyyybe Z" and it's historically caught scum a decent number of times
Yes, like this:
nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:35 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:15 pm but like does carotenoid ever do this with scum buddy Soneji? Looking for cred?
tsp and i are mindmelding this game and tsp is obv town therefore i am also town. i’ve solved myself \o/
yeah I'm feeling good about towncoring you + tsp + dizzy + epi + probably mac
Spoiler: show
:p
nutella w

blast her
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1388

Post by Epignosis »

protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:37 pm
Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 am
nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:33 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:21 am
MacDougall wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:47 pm Actually all three of them are probably mafia lol
why dunya? i have paranoia about her but idk where its coming from
Epi quoted some stuff that looks potentially w/w between her and soneji
After having looked at it again, that stuff is rather meh Tbh a lot of Epi's reads in this game have been him arriving to firm conclusions off pretty random things. Quite a few times he's taken a firm stance on someone and my immediate response was "really guy"? His response post flip was a bit weird too. He's well within his mafia range.
Something something pot kettle
Examples, explanations, give the spectators something to work with.
I apologize. What I'm trying to get at if you will check out this chart I've been working on since morning:


Spoiler: show
protocultures wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 am
Soneji – null to very very light town for having looked into strategies as could have done it for either alignment.
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1389

Post by protocultures »

Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:41 pm
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:37 pm
Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:37 am
nutella wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:33 am
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:21 am
MacDougall wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:47 pm Actually all three of them are probably mafia lol
why dunya? i have paranoia about her but idk where its coming from
Epi quoted some stuff that looks potentially w/w between her and soneji
After having looked at it again, that stuff is rather meh Tbh a lot of Epi's reads in this game have been him arriving to firm conclusions off pretty random things. Quite a few times he's taken a firm stance on someone and my immediate response was "really guy"? His response post flip was a bit weird too. He's well within his mafia range.
Something something pot kettle
Examples, explanations, give the spectators something to work with.
I apologize. What I'm trying to get at if you will check out this chart I've been working on since morning:


Spoiler: show
protocultures wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 am
Soneji – null to very very light town for having looked into strategies as could have done it for either alignment.
Dont understand. I wanted you to find examples of your allegation against mac and vice versa.

My comments re "light light town" on Soneji have been discussed already. Do you have a new angle on it?
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1390

Post by Epignosis »

protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:44 pm Dont understand. I wanted you to find examples of your allegation against mac and vice versa.
My allegation against MacDougall is that he is an Aussie hypocrite, nothing more.
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:44 pm My comments re "light light town" on Soneji have been discussed already. Do you have a new angle on it?
I'll let you know. :grin:
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1391

Post by Epignosis »

Long Con wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:01 am
MacDougall wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:59 am I will add I feel extremely positive that Hally is town. She's like a shining beacon of town spark.
Yes.
+1
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1392

Post by protocultures »

Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:47 pm
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:44 pm Dont understand. I wanted you to find examples of your allegation against mac and vice versa.
My allegation against MacDougall is that he is an Aussie hypocrite, nothing more.
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:44 pm My comments re "light light town" on Soneji have been discussed already. Do you have a new angle on it?
I'll let you know. :grin:
so basically throwing scum with no specific reference in mind. Not one.

This may be within your town meta, but stuff like this is why I scumread you.
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1393

Post by Hally »

protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:40 pm
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:37 pm adjusting reads lets see

town:
nut
dizzy
tutuu
tsp

town lean:
proto
epi
carotte
mac
alison

idk:
nanook
dunya
lc

scum:
rej

this is not really ordered except where it is :p i feel like my reads are not that ground breaking and idk if that should concern me. it wouldnt super surprise me if im wrong on one of the town leans. i highly doubt there is scum at the very top though
talk to me about nanook. Do you agree re not usiong saves on non nutella people in Night 1? This is a hard request from Nanook. Do you think this is pro town or pro alien? Do you think if Nanook were an alien, they even float this agenda? Do you now wonder if I might be partners with Nanook? If not, why not?

Wonder if other people think WE are potential partners since I asked you to talk to me about another person.
wow ok easy with the wifom uhh

idk about nanook. he hasnt done much, but the things he has said have seemed good. but i know he is a champs caliber player so i dont wanna give him a pass for just saying stuff that sounds good sometimes. i think the “nobody use saves on anyone but nut” as well as his insistence on it is more likely to come from town, but it’s also fakable as scum. i just want more solving and less slanking, but i dont imagine i will get that any time soon. for me, of the ppl i would say are more slanking , im like nanook > LC >>>> rej. i would not be shocked to find one or even two scum in these three, but i think nanook is least likely of them to be scum for his attitude

and no i dont wonder that because i think you’rd very likely to be town and thus dont have partners :p
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1394

Post by Epignosis »

protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:48 pm
Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:47 pm
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:44 pm Dont understand. I wanted you to find examples of your allegation against mac and vice versa.
My allegation against MacDougall is that he is an Aussie hypocrite, nothing more.
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:44 pm My comments re "light light town" on Soneji have been discussed already. Do you have a new angle on it?
I'll let you know. :grin:
so basically throwing scum with no specific reference in mind. Not one.

This may be within your town meta, but stuff like this is why I scumread you.
I have no idea what you just said to me in that first line.

As for the second, luckily you didn't get the Super Soaker 9000. :)
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1395

Post by Epignosis »

Long Con wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:18 am Also, I'm town too, bank on it and I promise no disappointment.
No comment. :sigh:
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1396

Post by Hally »

im actually trying very hard because i really want to make a good impression in my first game here. im glad im being rewarded with town reads :p

(also i always try super hard anyway but shh)
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1397

Post by Hally »

i wonder if jay is watching over us and yelling at us to blast carotte for her salad. carotte salad. heh :p
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1398

Post by protocultures »

Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:50 pm
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:40 pm
Hally wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:37 pm adjusting reads lets see

town:
nut
dizzy
tutuu
tsp

town lean:
proto
epi
carotte
mac
alison

idk:
nanook
dunya
lc

scum:
rej

this is not really ordered except where it is :p i feel like my reads are not that ground breaking and idk if that should concern me. it wouldnt super surprise me if im wrong on one of the town leans. i highly doubt there is scum at the very top though
talk to me about nanook. Do you agree re not usiong saves on non nutella people in Night 1? This is a hard request from Nanook. Do you think this is pro town or pro alien? Do you think if Nanook were an alien, they even float this agenda? Do you now wonder if I might be partners with Nanook? If not, why not?

Wonder if other people think WE are potential partners since I asked you to talk to me about another person.
wow ok easy with the wifom uhh

idk about nanook. he hasnt done much, but the things he has said have seemed good. but i know he is a champs caliber player so i dont wanna give him a pass for just saying stuff that sounds good sometimes. i think the “nobody use saves on anyone but nut” as well as his insistence on it is more likely to come from town, but it’s also fakable as scum. i just want more solving and less slanking, but i dont imagine i will get that any time soon. for me, of the ppl i would say are more slanking , im like nanook > LC >>>> rej. i would not be shocked to find one or even two scum in these three, but i think nanook is least likely of them to be scum for his attitude

and no i dont wonder that because i think you’rd very likely to be town and thus dont have partners :p
hes saying stuff thats good and not sure anyone else has said it recently. He might have been the only one that has pushed that agenda of not saving anyone except nutella. I cant remember who first floated the idea and whether anyone else seconded it. Yes its fakeable as scum, but WOULD they say it as scum? Not 100% sure what slanking means, but I assume something like coasting?

Nanook is coasting a bit (and I agree, see my point re asking him to create a list of reads) and we should be applying pressure until we get results.

You should always be suspicious. just FYI, I am well within my mafia range currently. WIFOM that.
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Hally
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Re: Space Invaders [Night 1]

#1399

Post by Hally »

what if i protect myself tonight? :ponder:
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protocultures
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Re: Space Invaders [Day 1]

#1400

Post by protocultures »

Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:51 pm
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:48 pm
Epignosis wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:47 pm
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:44 pm Dont understand. I wanted you to find examples of your allegation against mac and vice versa.
My allegation against MacDougall is that he is an Aussie hypocrite, nothing more.
protocultures wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:44 pm My comments re "light light town" on Soneji have been discussed already. Do you have a new angle on it?
I'll let you know. :grin:
so basically throwing scum with no specific reference in mind. Not one.

This may be within your town meta, but stuff like this is why I scumread you.
I have no idea what you just said to me in that first line.

As for the second, luckily you didn't get the Super Soaker 9000. :)
When Mac says about you that "After having looked at it again, that stuff is rather meh Tbh a lot of Epi's reads in this game have been him arriving to firm conclusions off pretty random things. Quite a few times he's taken a firm stance on someone and my immediate response was "really guy"? His response post flip was a bit weird too. He's well within his mafia range."

And you say "Something something pot kettle", I expected you to have exmaples of Mac arriving to firm conclusions off pretty random things which maked you go "really?". Or at least one.

By making the comment "Something something pot kettle" with no evidence to support it, I take this as you throwing random scum with no backup, which I interpret as anti town behaviour.

let me know if I am still unclear.
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