The Syndicate

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:33 pm esooa on jjj/j3/jay

starts off sod2:

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:01 pm Alison's posts after EoD are weird, removing her from my town

Wilgy/Falcon/JJJ/Sabi/Marmot town

so out of the blue esooa gives jay a town read even tho through the game by this point she had him in the poe.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:11 pm esooa on her alison reads:

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:43 am Another point against Alison btw is I think she was very resistant to accepting Lucy's meta stuff when backed by like nanook or someone

That's probably an angle where wolf Alison is pushing things a bit more unreasonably than she i ought to be

Not sold on it though obviously

Also the thing where "she has a poe of two so it's towny" isn't really valid. Even if a wolf needs to push more people than that to win they don't have to today and Alison knows that

Also Lucy's vote reasoning last day phase was SUS imo

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:54 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:40 am What made you put me back into your town list by the way?

Cause I think if you're a wolf you don't push Lucy as much

So Alison is wolf because shes being stubborn and hardcore tunneling.

alison is not a wolf because shes hardcore tunneling.

thats esooa flip flop and non consistent read on alison.

is there a reason why esooa would use the same reason to both sr/tr alison?

its not a genuine thought/belief.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:03 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:34 am like if Nanook dies town we're going to be on day 4 that's basically day 2, one day from lylo with nothing to show for it for an entire week. But I guess that isn't the best reasoning to not want to kill Nanook. Sabi's posts about me still are p bad tho

if Nook dies town then we are on day 4, I don't understand. Why is removing players that we can't get a solid town tell on a bad thing? Does narrowing down to the last remaining wolf, not make solving better as we go?

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:47 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:40 am I'm not sure entirely if I do. One of the things I didn't like him from was me misreading something. I'm not sure on him being town, though

And Nanook announcing he's sheeping Wilgy before Wilgy was doing things like voting OW then doing exactly that doesn't really seem like a problem to me, don't get that.

Why doesn't that seem like a problem?

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:34 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:22 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:18 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:39 am Nanook kill is still the most boring thing I can imagine and will almost always prompt another day of people repeating themselves about the most ridiculous reads possible on me so I'm inclined to beg you just let me be free still

this is silly in a bad way.

we have 1 member of mafia left. Nook is as boring as anyone else.

I just don't think a Nanook kill is anything other than "well, we don't know if anyone else is a wolf so should kill him now." Which if you arrive there, fine, but I don't really feel like anyones arrived there rather than just gone with the path of least resistance

Maybe I'm wrong because I'm obviously town and fmpov the PoE is literally "kill a towny and that one guy who hasn't really done anything wolfy, and if that doesn't end the game we're all clueless on it" but still

That's not how we got to chopping Nanook though.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:28 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:26 am Like Sabi is literally making excuses to keep me as a wolf read, not think of actual reasons. If they are, I have no clue how they're getting to the things they're saying. So I'm voting them. That's really all there is too it rn, though

Can you detail me your current PoE?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:26 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:22 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:18 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:39 am Nanook kill is still the most boring thing I can imagine and will almost always prompt another day of people repeating themselves about the most ridiculous reads possible on me so I'm inclined to beg you just let me be free still

this is silly in a bad way.

we have 1 member of mafia left. Nook is as boring as anyone else.

I just don't think a Nanook kill is anything other than "well, we don't know if anyone else is a wolf so should kill him now." Which if you arrive there, fine, but I don't really feel like anyones arrived there rather than just gone with the path of least resistance

Maybe I'm wrong because I'm obviously town and fmpov the PoE is literally "kill a towny and that one guy who hasn't really done anything wolfy, and if that doesn't end the game we're all clueless on it" but still

I mean, I think there's been plenty of stated reasons as to why everyone else has been removed from PoE.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:20 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:18 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:13 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:09 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:37 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:32 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:29 am No just my town paranoia.

I already have worries about you and marmar also pocketing me

If you find a way to put these fears into words, I would encourage you to do so for whoever you have in mind. Give folks the opportunity to impact your perception and your confidence level.

Stuff like Wilgz quick turnaround on reading my slot. Yes he idnt taking in account two state game and what not so this is just me being about the quickness.

Marmar read on me based off gut and not like concrete stuff. Has been sheeping my ideas and what not (which gives me pause).

You, reads also based off gut and not actual concrete stuff. Just been super agreeable with me.

Yes my paranoia is based on a lot of people agreeing with me and their reads on me.

Well, you have been asking us to listen to you, and though I don't feel as strongly on esooa as you do, I'm trying to give it a fair shake.

I know I just get paranoid sometimes.

What is your take on her pop in and assessment on the votes on her? Esp her take on you, saying you weren't accurate about her?

I noticed that she had a more scathing response to your vote than anyone else's, which I'm scratching my head at.

Because she can't push you and Wilgz. I'm the weakest of the trio. Easier to discredit my argument than either of yalls.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:20 am Let us also not forget, esooa claimed wolf.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:18 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:39 am Nanook kill is still the most boring thing I can imagine and will almost always prompt another day of people repeating themselves about the most ridiculous reads possible on me so I'm inclined to beg you just let me be free still

this is silly in a bad way.

we have 1 member of mafia left. Nook is as boring as anyone else.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:18 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:13 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:09 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:37 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:32 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:29 am No just my town paranoia.

I already have worries about you and marmar also pocketing me

If you find a way to put these fears into words, I would encourage you to do so for whoever you have in mind. Give folks the opportunity to impact your perception and your confidence level.

Stuff like Wilgz quick turnaround on reading my slot. Yes he idnt taking in account two state game and what not so this is just me being about the quickness.

Marmar read on me based off gut and not like concrete stuff. Has been sheeping my ideas and what not (which gives me pause).

You, reads also based off gut and not actual concrete stuff. Just been super agreeable with me.

Yes my paranoia is based on a lot of people agreeing with me and their reads on me.

Well, you have been asking us to listen to you, and though I don't feel as strongly on esooa as you do, I'm trying to give it a fair shake.

I know I just get paranoid sometimes.

What is your take on her pop in and assessment on the votes on her? Esp her take on you, saying you weren't accurate about her?

I noticed that she had a more scathing response to your vote than anyone else's, which I'm scratching my head at.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:00 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:49 am Also, I've thought about the few defenders thing a bit irt maybe not Lucy, maybe not Sparkles, but really if they're a wolf then they have 1 partner who may defend them and it's just not really going to sway me thinking about it like that.

Break it down for me real quick then Esooa, perhaps the negatives in 'maybe not lucy, maybe not Sparkles' made me think you would think between them they'd have one partner wanting to defend?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:41 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:35 am Sabi thinking that becuase I meagerly gestured towards another wagon then realized they were a wagon prompting me to back off.. is damning? is pretty awful

What does that say about Wilgz and marmar, who both followed along it?

All I told them was to ead eod1 and both of them came into the same conclusion.

Yet I'm the one being called out for this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:39 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:35 am Sabi thinking that becuase I meagerly gestured towards another wagon then realized they were a wagon prompting me to back off.. is damning? is pretty awful

Is it suspicious awful or not suspicious awful?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:11 am I think any take, including my own irt Alison death, is all built on wifom. It feels like it was either her or jjj and either option would have us questioning why them and not the other.

The night kill was made to create town paranoia.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:59 pm

Spoiler: show

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:34 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:32 am Didn't really understand Nanook's read on me for a little bit of calling me obvious town. But I've thought about it more now and think I know his reasoning, and I think he's towny for it.

Thinking maybe Outed wolf/JJJ wolves, cause why not. Not feeling great on Sparkles despite what I've said, but realistically I'm fine with Lucy or Sparkles dying

And I just remembered day ends in 28 minutes, so I guess I have to be

Not feeling great on the Sparkles exe, is what I mean here

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:38 am I was perfectly content sitting on my Nanook vanity wagon while I town read him and just watching Sparkles flip

But now I'm anxious but I don't know if I should go with my meager OW read or leave Sparkles where she is

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:49 am

outed wolf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:33 am Thinking on it, I feel less concerned about Alison's posts around Lucy, because the fact she ain't voted and is refusing to play D1 is really beginning to grate on me.

I'd give myself good odds of voting her some tomorrow out of spite.

You sign up, you play the damn game. That means you vote, make reads, whatever.

As we lurch towards a damp squib EOD killing the person I suspect, the doubts have begun to creep in (few defenders, could be misreading, wolves taking an easy D1). But the days are short and this is what we have to work with. Not like many of the counter votes are agreeable.

Hope I'm right!

Why does you beginning to be more/less grated by Lucy make Alison's posts more towny? I don't really get it

Also, I've thought about the few defenders thing a bit irt maybe not Lucy, maybe not Sparkles, but really if they're a wolf then they have 1 partner who may defend them and it's just not really going to sway me thinking about it like that.

Can you talk a bit more about why you think Sparkles is wolfy? Tbh, none of their content in particular I've had an issue with. I know you gave general reasons earlier but when I read them I didn't really get anything out of it, didn't connect it to their posts I guess. But the biggest problem I could say I have with Sparkles right now is when I've played with them as town before, they've really annoyed me by doing very vocal and very wack pushes, but their reads this game seemed a fair bit more reserved and sensible even under pressure.

I was thinking Nanook could be her partner just cause he hasn't really done anything. His post saying that someone reads list was 'really boring' kinda stuck out to me in a time where I was wondering who's actually defending Lucy/Sparkles/etc and... well, in a world Nanook+1 of them is a wolf, it certainly is boring, and that certainly would be a way to at least try and get an edge in against it. But I mean, it's also kinda true it's boring and I've had thoughts like that as town so I didn't wanna push it or think of it so much as wolfy. Still is a thing though.

Since I'm typing, personally I think Alison's pushes have all made sense coming from her, and the way she's moved off things she's been pushing prior is actually good imo, contrary to what I've read a few times in thread. She's giving thoughts, realizing they're not valid because of something or changing her mind on the read, and changing pretty readily. I don't really see her pushing the envelope on anything or stretching reasoning for her thoughts at all, so I have no issue with it and think she's probably town for it. I haven't really been paying as much attention as I should be to say she's 100% town but I'm confident enough in it.

As for Wilgy I agree with what JJJ and some others has said. He's active, he's contributing, and realistically it probably means he's town. But it's a read I'd be willing to budge on. I think outside of just posting a lot though, he's had good curiosity in some things

One thing that's interesting though, mentioning JJJ, is while I think he's done a lot of things that I agree with/same kinda end point as me, I don't really find him towny at all. I don't know why, maybe I just don't know how to read him or have poor expectations, and I think very possibly so, but I just don't really care that much about anything he's said since early day 1. I haven't really felt like he's pushed the game along that much in a positive direction save for some unique thoughts early day 1 (when I'd value it the least), saying that I guess the game hasn't really felt like it's moved at all to me today so that could be a point against the idea, but still. I'm just not feeling it irt him.

Falcon is a read I could explain if I really wanted to, but I don't really. He's just Falcon. Every game I've ever seen him in people always go ??? at things he says, and sometimes if they don't know him too well they push him for it, but at the end of the day people like Alison and myself are right on him almost all the time. I've had a few games where he slips by a bit longer as a wolf, and I think once every I ML'd him while he wasn't doing that much compared to his normal games (could be remembering wrong), but this game in particular I think he's being especially town-falcon-y with his really weird logic that he obviously believes in. Things like earlier when he wolf read someone for mentioning post cap as a way to make there be less posts, really weird logic imo, but then a bit after I posted "I think everyone should stop posting" and he said it was wolfy and put me in his wolf reads. That's the kinda thing you just see from town Falcon every game and he's been executing on it like expected.

I can't remember other names right now and I've typed enough

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:32 am Didn't really understand Nanook's read on me for a little bit of calling me obvious town. But I've thought about it more now and think I know his reasoning, and I think he's towny for it.

Thinking maybe Outed wolf/JJJ wolves, cause why not. Not feeling great on Sparkles despite what I've said, but realistically I'm fine with Lucy or Sparkles dying

And I just remembered day ends in 28 minutes, so I guess I have to be

So, here's the compiled shit I saw re Esooa towards Sparkles in no real order. If town, Esooa was pushed via fear towards not thinking it was Sparkles. If wolf, Esooa wanted to frame it as if 'no defense means we're wrong'.

I keep reading it and I'm thinking this was in fact a frame.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:13 pm I think Wilgy's surgical exploits are sufficient on their own to excuse any notion of "falling off". We're left then with Day 1 alone to make a judgment, and he looked good then. I acknowledge that some measure of my intent to reexamine Wilgy relates to a very basic meta assessment: Wilgy seeming supertown is unusual, and therefore he ought to be checked out more closely.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:18 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:15 pm Even by this I'm not really that sold which is why I'd be eh on reading the games to begin with. If your previous goal was to be high energy to fool someone like Marmot, now that you've done that, why is it not the case this wolf game is the same--changing energy levels to fool him again, acting differently than before. Or even just you're busy now, have already wolfed hard recently so are less in it, any such thing. Possibly saying you power wolfed and such before is a reason to believe you're more town for pushing sparkles but I'm not one to usually too read simply the act of pushing a wolf. I guess I'd have to read back to see how much I buy it but idk when I'll get to reading isos

I won't carry forward more self-meta discourse; its value is probably limited. There's always an explanation if you want there to be one.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:11 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:04 pm And I've not read that game or your wolf games and don't particularly intend to lol

I can provide a basic summary. A few others here played in that game who can affirm or refute.

I made a concerted effort to play with energy and noise, explicitly to fool Marmot who I figured could correctly interpret my energy if I didn't. I promoted a great deal of thick analysis with all the beautiful formatting flourishes to look the part, and I used them to kill townies. It was pure powerwolf until I essentially threw myself on the sword when I felt the time was right to leave my teammates a winning gamestate.

This game I'm pretty lazy by my standards tbh. I'm focused on larger priorities and am always tired.

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:59 pm And even considering that if people would rather just say well jjj pushed the wolf more day 1 so you die instead which seems to be the vibe

It's wrong and I think my posts about the day 1 wolf are pretty clearing personally because they follow a very clear and expected thought process from town me but one that gets me nothing but wolf reads most of the time for wolf me

But also apparently pointing out true and correct things is wolfy too

Which as I've said

Sparkles was less obnoxious and more explainy across the board than as town. But that's a good thing. But sometimes people are like that. But it's been a decent while since I've played with them so maybe they're better about it now. I was 'hedgy ' about it sure but why would I in this position be certain on one side or another? And because of this. I was asking people about their thoughts about it. Every time I brought it up was framed as explaining my thoughts and asking about the applicability of it--exactly what I should do

And in the end, I still sheeped as I said in sparkles. I had so little interest in moving the wagon I didn't even know OW was one. My vote was a vanity vote on nanook who I town read. When presented the option to move to a counter wagon I didn't.

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:02 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:59 pm I'm town. I think that should be evident in a face value interpretation of this game: I was an important part of chopping Sparkles on Day 1, and it takes very little time alive for me to invite generic tinfoil. That's not a winning proposition for me as mafia, and I know that better than anyone.

I'm also not playing at all like I just did in Halvosen Ridge as mafia.

I think you can be town

But for the others, I see less of a reason for nanook to kill OW than I see you to buss. And I don't feel bad about any other living players

If I end up thinking you're more likely town maybe I'll vote nanook by EOD but idk

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:59 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:52 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:50 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:46 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:45 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:20 pm There's a zero percent chance I put in more effort than jjj and a zero percent chance falcon doesn't vote me unless I do that

And probably extremely low for other players too

So

Why do you care about my vote?

Well

At the end of each day the player with the most votes dies

Is that how this game works?



It's just interesting you're particularly concerned about my vote

If you're going to vote me for something like.. not being overly confident for no reason in my reads which obviously means they're "hedgy" by default then ya, I'm doing nothing to change that and won't. And btw literally every game we've ever played you incorrectly and extremely frequently vote me for similar things so

Haha, do I? Ita not intentional.


How often have I mislynched you?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:59 pm I'm town. I think that should be evident in a face value interpretation of this game: I was an important part of chopping Sparkles on Day 1, and it takes very little time alive for me to invite generic tinfoil. That's not a winning proposition for me as mafia, and I know that better than anyone.

I'm also not playing at all like I just did in Halvosen Ridge as mafia.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:50 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:46 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:45 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:20 pm There's a zero percent chance I put in more effort than jjj and a zero percent chance falcon doesn't vote me unless I do that

And probably extremely low for other players too

So

Why do you care about my vote?

Well

At the end of each day the player with the most votes dies

Is that how this game works?



It's just interesting you're particularly concerned about my vote

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:45 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:20 pm There's a zero percent chance I put in more effort than jjj and a zero percent chance falcon doesn't vote me unless I do that

And probably extremely low for other players too

So

Why do you care about my vote?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:37 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:35 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:34 pm Honestly can probably just treat esooa Jay as a difference check lol

[VOTE: jay] aubergine

Explain

Kind of a gamestate read, coupled with respect for your reads if you're town, if you're mafia this is probably the line you have to take, so significantly high chance there's one between you two, and you've said nice things about me so ill go Jay first