The Syndicate

There is no argument about my actions that cannot be wifom. I can say all these things that I wouldn't do, mostly because I know me and I also know I've been tired recently and as much as I can see myself saying it'd be fun to cc Tess, I would absolutely pick the low effort option because work/life is getting enough of me without me getting stuck in hard-mode ccs.

But look.

That's all wifom too.

The underlying problem with any argument I make for why my decisions don't make sense is that it can be undercut with "But you did that so you could point it out."

That argument doesn't hold water because I 100% pick two people I'm never pushing today and just say they're both town. They could either be partners or straight up two town. It doesn't matter. I just pick two people I'm never pushing and call it a day. Makes me feel more legit to people reading me.

If I was wolf, copying the parity cop's check is like hard mode of the CC.

Yes, this wine is delicious.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:24 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:24 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:22 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:21 am Do I?

Really?

All I need to do is build a team where you're confident they win if you sac yourself.

if there's a more sacrificial wolf than me I just tell them to claim and what to claim

Obviously not.

Obviously because I'm not a wolf

"Ladies and gents they've got back around the bend into the 'No u' section of the course! It's neck and neck as they come up the straight. How long will it take for them to stop spending posts calling each other a wolf? Who knows! Let's find out together!"

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:22 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:21 am Do I?

Really?

All I need to do is build a team where you're confident they win if you sac yourself.

if there's a more sacrificial wolf than me I just tell them to claim and what to claim

Obviously not.

And can exist in a Gira or Wisp team world for differing reasons.

Which exists in an Alison team world already.

Do I?

Really?

All I need to do is build a team where you're confident they win if you sac yourself.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:17 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:16 am Tbh if you got tracked you actually out both claims which is one goal of your play.

Not hitting Parity cop doesn't matter because you out cop via cc.

Parity cop doesn't claim if I get into a CC with the tracker before that

Tracker would have to cc first then. That's just timing dependant.

Both those work if you miss Parity cop and you get tracked.

This claim serves two purposes:

1. outs prs

2. changes vill focus.

You're devaluing the outcomes to make your choice look better lmao.

Tbh if you got tracked you actually out both claims which is one goal of your play.

Not hitting Parity cop doesn't matter because you out cop via cc.

I'm actually a dumbass lmao.

NGL if you had done that, simulating your checks with blocks, I would've been impressed.

But I should've known it wasn't the case because I wasn't blocked once so.

Hm. Okay. Claiming as RBer is probably too ballsy for this situation.

I thought that was a pretty awesome set up and claim for a moment.

I'm actually impressed.

You ballsy motherfucker.

Tess, did you actually just claim as roleblocker.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:03 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:54 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:52 am Mafia are put in a pretty bad position if Tess is mafia and doesn't net the parity cop in her difference check claim.

You agree with this, Ender?

There's also the fact that if I got tracked either night I could simply be CC'd by the tracker

It's an awful claim

btw too with my position in the game overall, I think it's a reasonable assumption that it was pretty likely I had been tracked at some point

Did you Claim as roleblocker.

>Wilgy check

>Wilgy got blocked.

Thing I'm looking forward to most:
Reading scumchat and seeing how Tess and co reacted when my checks were Tess/Wilgy

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:58 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:55 am If they lose it does put her team in a worse position, however Tess isn't one that would go into a CC claim thinking she'll lose.

I mean I still am worried I'm gonna die today tbh

I'm gonna laugh if you claimed parity cop thinking Wilgy was the cop and wasn't expecting my cc.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:52 am Mafia are put in a pretty bad position if Tess is mafia and doesn't net the parity cop in her difference check claim.

You agree with this, Ender?

Not really.

9 players
3 are wolves
Gavial is obvious non-PR from how he interacted with Tess setting up her claim.

If she misses PR on her 2 then it narrows the field to 3. Parity cop CCs then only 2 left. Easily able to pick up Tracker even if they aren't in the 2.

Tess would want to WIN the cc, of course.

If they lose it does put her team in a worse position, however Tess isn't one that would go into a CC claim thinking she'll lose.

While we're on the train of "Things I'd never do as scum" I would probably not claim the Tess/Wilgy diff check lmao.

I'd probably do something like Gav/Falc same.

You won't admit it because you want to win this cc battle.

Town might not yet.

But both of us looking at each other right now know that's a lie.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:40 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:40 am "I would never play like this as wolf" both PR ccs expound, gladly talking about how they wouldn't do it.

mines actually true tho

Lmao.

Except we both know that's a lie.

Also it is wine.

Because it's all "Why would x do y"

Which is Wine.

"I would never play like this as wolf" both PR ccs expound, gladly talking about how they wouldn't do it.

Btw I want to point out:
Scythe Mafia was a perfect example of how Tess (As town) doesn't play the perfect little PR.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:36 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:35 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:32 am I don't put any weight on the "I could do better as wolf" argument.

I believe in logic. I don't think either of you decided to make a weird and unnecessary decision as a wolf because YOLO. There is a solid rational justification for whatever it is, and I intend to find it.

it's not just "I could do better as a wolf"

It's that if I'm a wolf claiming like this it was PLANNED

And that I have zero reason to affect my game in that way

This wine is delicious.

do you deny that the way I've played lines up to the game a cop would play?

Well, you're not a cop so yes.

But you are putting the perfect model image of a cop into play to make everyone think you are.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:32 am I don't put any weight on the "I could do better as wolf" argument.

I believe in logic. I don't think either of you decided to make a weird and unnecessary decision as a wolf because YOLO. There is a solid rational justification for whatever it is, and I intend to find it.

it's not just "I could do better as a wolf"

It's that if I'm a wolf claiming like this it was PLANNED

And that I have zero reason to affect my game in that way

This wine is delicious.

Note to self:
If I want to pocket Alison I need to completely yolo a game as wolf.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:27 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:24 am I have seen no reasonable explanations for either Ender's decision to CC Tess or Tess' decision to claim her check in a world either of them are scum. I am going to think about what possible explanations could drive those decisions.

I mean, even if you're caught up in something relating to the claims this day phase, my entire play this game lines up to being a cop, including claiming outright SoD

Like

The possibility of me being a wolf here is that I pulled scum reads on purpose day 2 and some day 1 just to claim cop, because you should KNOW I can do better even with like 5% than I did those days as a wolf

It's my duty as your CC to point out "I could do better as wolf" is a WIFOM-y statement that often comes from wolves.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:24 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:12 am

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:09 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:07 am Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

You and I both know I respect you too much to believe that CCing you is ever going to be easier than CCing Wilgy lmao.

and I mean regarding this

People jumped onto Wilgy sure--I'd have to look at who that was--but imo he was still towny day 1. Like idk much about him but I liked his day 1 a decent bit and I don't think the expectation for Wilgy is just go "oop" and flop over and die. The reads on Wilgy can easily just be seen as a temporary drop off imo. Dizzy town read him, I did day 1, Alison did, etc. But the reads on me probably were gonna stick more. I mean, I don't know--this is easily a thought someone has though

Let me put it this way:

If everyone on the game had a townish read on Wilgy.

And a scummish read on you.

I would 100% still think Wilgy is the easier CC.

Because I am a very strong thread presence and for players who can't match that I overwhelm them a lot.

You are not someone I can do that to as wolf.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:19 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:15 am Tess' random claim makes good sense if it's diversion of heat off you to waste the final ML.

Or smoke-screen for some other reason.

This claim is stereotypic "Wolves have something that is currently on fire and this is the perfect distraction".

Also wolves don't want PRs to go unnoticed to F7 because it's dangerous.

Well I know it's not to divert heat off me so you can scratch that argument if you intend tp convince me.

I don't think the PRs argument makes sense, if the real parity cop wasn't in the difference check they would immediately CC and Tess would get voted out and Parity Cop dies in the night, and we still have one more misexe before FX. It's not really worth it for the mafia to do that.

If you are town then...

Tess likes to really deep wolf so it's a bit odd.

Can't be to defend Wilgy because Wilgy is uncced tracker.

Only reason she would is if she was worried about PRs getting 3 checks while being unknown.

But that's kinda weak idk.

I'd have to be in a more "I'm having fun" world than I usually am as scum but.

Not impossible.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:18 am sigh

then some shit like "Ender thought it would be more fun to cc me"--it doesn't really particularly matter

I don't think his decision has no possible wolf motivation

It could be the above

It could simply be because he figured he can say "I would just cc Wilgy"

etc--it doesn't really matter to me

This is the same reason you would have believed Lag's claim in the PerC game Alison (unsure if you actually did as you were an SK), just because you can't directly find motivation for a decision you don't have all the knowledge about. In the case it probably being to look townier/look for the SK

Actually.

You know what.

That first line is accurate.

I can absolutely see myself sitting down and deciding it would be more fun to cc Tess.

@Alison

Entertain me for a moment.

Let's pretend we're in a world where me and you are both confirmed town. Tess obviously is confirmed wolf because this doesn't work otherwise.

Can you work with me to build a POE that would make sense for that world?

I'm willing to drop my scum-tunnel on you for a bit to see what happens.

See I'm ngl my "Hidden earlier read" was whether Alison came forward with "why did he cc Tess" because I know Alison is a logical player and she should see that.

This delayed see is what I expected earlier.

I don't know if that entirely locks her scum or if she didn't see it at first.

But if she isn't scum then I need to work out what Tess' smokescreen is for.

3 checks from both PRs can narrow the game hard.

Tess' random claim makes good sense if it's diversion of heat off you to waste the final ML.

Or smoke-screen for some other reason.

This claim is stereotypic "Wolves have something that is currently on fire and this is the perfect distraction".

Also wolves don't want PRs to go unnoticed to F7 because it's dangerous.

You know you're good at a 1v1.

Like, legit you were talking earlier IN THIS GAME how Illwei was afraid to scumread you as scum because she didn't want you to OMGUS/Bury her.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:09 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:07 am Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

I literally was scum read by every player in the game before my claim lmfao

You and I both know I respect you too much to believe that CCing you is ever going to be easier than CCing Wilgy lmao.

tessepia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:07 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:05 am My play doesn't properly make sense unless you view it through a lense of Alison being w/w with me and even then the Nanook N1 is still an odd one.

I know how my wolf game plays and it often is about navigating town to self-destruct.

I agree I don't really get it, but I don't really think you can explain why I'd kill nanook either

1. You had a reason to PR read Nanook. Idk why but I can't say for sure. I know I knew he wasn't PR but that's just WIFOM at this point.

2. Nanook and me find each other fairly reliably as t/t, especially after I've figured him D1. (For anyone calling this TMI I can link multiple quotes where Nanook himself says I have a very reliable read on him. It has been wrong occasionally, Smilies being the most egregious example, but I have a high hit rate on my Nanook read.)

3. Tess. You 100% make off-the-bat kills N1. Your kill on me when I was hard-sussed D1 in Ice-cream is a great example of this. Also the Nanook Kill is good WIFOM if both you AND Alison are scum together, as neither of you feel likely to make the kill.

Also no one has answered why I'd pick Tess to CC as wolf. If I CCed tracker I easily am in a better position with multiple people sussing Wilgy AND Gav/Falc still on my side AND Luckbox the recently deceased having been anti-wilgy if I recall right.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:05 am Counterpoint: you got red checked and CC'd after.

Sorry.

I forgot that cops never are the ones to claim after.

My play doesn't properly make sense unless you view it through a lense of Alison being w/w with me and even then the Nanook N1 is still an odd one.

I know how my wolf game plays and it often is about navigating town to self-destruct.

Consider:
Do you think I'm afraid of blood on my hands to be off Dizzy's wagon on D1?

Dizzy is (again) one of the people I'd be most afraid of as the game goes on. Easily on the top 3 people who could catch me as a wolf here.