The Syndicate

GJ town

Perfection 3/3 LETS GO

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:01 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:56 pm Mac -> Wilgy, I'm locking it in

@Seanzie what's our confidence level?

I feel good about chopping Mac. I am not as confident as I was earlier, but I think he is most likely to flip red, and also most likely to be able to squeeze out a mafia win in F3 if we chop elsewhere.

At this point I don't think it is a good idea to talk about tomorrow in case Mac is not the hit. I rescind my earlier legacy and give no legacy going into the night.

Mac is making me think that he's town, which means Mac is going for the win, which makes me think he's mafia.

F3 Mac, Seanzie and I is what my dreams are made of btw, if one of you are mafia, we definitely need to make this happen.

I can be convinced Wilgy->Mac

Mac -> Wilgy, I'm locking it in

@Seanzie what's our confidence level?

Eh, I'm back to Wilgy mafia... LOL. Whatever let's flip Mac, if Creature or Seanzie is mafia bring me to F3 for free win.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:50 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:48 pm Here's the issue Mac, and you talk me through this if you're town... DrWilgy parked his vote on Creature D2 which was really bad for Alison because it negated the value of Creature's vote as a swing vote, it sent it against her... Effectively.

as opposed to what I did which was park my vote on someone intensely more difficult to chop after I had my vote on Creature?

what I did was much more of a contributing factor to Alison not getting a mislynch off imo.

Yeah, so wait... Wilgy parked on Creature from start of day right? So they might not have thought of the vote mechanics at the time (almost certainly not) and probably also didn't know Seanzie would tunnel the flip that hard.

I run through the EoD over & over, is Alison ever really trying to convince Creature, or have they already decided that the 50/50 is not worth it?

Here's the issue Mac, and you talk me through this if you're town... DrWilgy parked his vote on Creature D2 which was really bad for Alison because it negated the value of Creature's vote as a swing vote, it sent it against her... Effectively.

It's a really weird game, because only 3 townies all game have had a good vote that matters, and only 2 of those are alive. One would assume with that being the case, the game would already be over in a mafia victory.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:40 pm Hilariously I've come full circle and the only person I'm confident is town is Seanzie. What a world we live in.

I agree with this read, but you should also have me as confident town given how hard I pushed Alison from D1, and the fact that she wasn't totally devastated by having a game-throwing partner.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:35 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:20 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:01 am @Seanzie if you're mafia, I'm voting you for a 2021 socky of your choice.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:02 am You can tell me which one you want now

If I was mafia here, I would deserve to win like... all of the mafia-sided and NAI sockys.

Unfortunately I'll have to settle with best townie if Mac dying wins the game... but probably won't win it because it is too early in the year, everyone will have forgotten by then, and no one will understand my play around Fext and see it as a bad move rather than a good one.

I'm sorry that's me...

You deserve to win all the mafia-sided Sockys for this game?

Only the best town socky... If Mac is mafia

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:10 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:01 am @Seanzie if you're mafia, I'm voting you for a 2021 socky of your choice.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:02 am You can tell me which one you want now

If I was mafia here, I would deserve to win like... all of the mafia-sided and NAI sockys.

Unfortunately I'll have to settle with best townie if Mac dying wins the game... but probably won't win it because it is too early in the year, everyone will have forgotten by then, and no one will understand my play around Fext and see it as a bad move rather than a good one.

I'm sorry that's me...

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:18 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:01 am @Seanzie if you're mafia, I'm voting you for a 2021 socky of your choice.

Beat Wilgy is reserved for me. Sorry.

I'm nominating Seanzie for best roleplay.

You can tell me which one you want now

@Seanzie if you're mafia, I'm voting you for a 2021 socky of your choice.

Also, Falcon starting off on Creature reinforces the idea that Mafia would have just gone for a kill on Creature yesterday, the Seanzie / Alison bus world is unnecessary

I wanted to push DrWilgy today to see how that would look, and I didn't like it. Let's kill Mac and see where the game is at.

I'm really struggling with the 3-2-1-1 vote...

1 - DrWilgy (Even if DrWilgy is town, mafia couldn't self pres here because DrWilgy was a swing vote)
1 - Creature (Even if Creature is town, mafia couldn't self pres here because Creature was a swing vote)
2 - Seanzie (Alison & Mac tried getting Creature on this wagon)
3 - Alison (Seanzie was here pretty early on, and wouldn't have had any self pres options due to Mac's vote)

Purely based on this, and nothing else, I would assume that Mac or Seanzie are mafia because it the DrWilgy/Creature cross vote feels so awkward for mafia to play around.



Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way... Mafia had no options yesterday, so what would make it possible for them to vote Creature? - We need to look at the pre-EoD events for this because EoD was stagnant.

1) Creature would need to be town
2) Mac would need to be town (because mafia needs Maj - no convincing required)
3) DrWilgy would need to be town (because mafia needs Maj - no convincing required)

Vote would be DrWilgy, Mac, Alison, Seanzie (all 4 of these headed into F5 would be a nightmare)

- DrWilgy same conclusion except town!Mac probably wouldn't have voted DrWilgy so it's moot.

I think the fact that voting together wasn't considered makes Seanzie more than likely not mafia, I think if he's mafia he at least at some point tries to find common ground with Mac rather than repeatedly antagonizing their only ally (I mean, maybe he does it a bit for appearances, but if I'm Alison and Seanzie is antagonizing our only ally, I probably don't even show up to play the day, or I tell him to STFU and try to get Mac onboard with a better kill - which would have taken all of 2 seconds, Mac was eating out of Alison's hand).



Also, I wonder why Alison's partner doesn't work harder to bring Falcon over. The only person who actually tried to talk Falcon off of his reads yesterday was Mac who put in a considerable effort - I did too, but I pushed Falcon towards Alison over Creature.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:26 am I'd say NAA more than Falcon.

Right, but if he made the 2nd most reasonable kill in your mind, it's very likely to have just been the best kill in his mind, you know?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:24 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:20 am Fair enough, but was Falcon just a bad kill then?

Who would have been a good kill for Mac?

Only acceptable kills for Mac are me and Falcon, needs a non!Seanzie Alison voter

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:20 am Fair enough, but was Falcon just a bad kill then?

I mean, I think so... But listen to Mac's own night kill logic "I kill people I can't chop, I could chop LC and Falcon, so those aren't mine."

1) LC doesn't really matter because it's an Alison kill
2) No fucking way he could have chopped them, those players could not be killed during the day
2a. Look how close I came to dying yesterday, that would have been LC as well... The TMI argument was just garbage
2b. How many people would have even considered Falcon for the rest of the game? I know I wouldn't.

The fact that Falcon was supporting the idea that Mac could be town doesn't factor into Mac's own NK logic.

I don't think Mac can be a miss. Everytime I start thinking he might be a miss, he just comes up with another unreasonable take. It's absurd.

Like I said before, Mac has played himself into a loss regardless of his alignment - which is the only argument for not killing him and it's a bad one.

Actually maybe mac and wilgy... I'm really lost, the only thing I almost know for sure is that I don't want to kill creature, and that might be wrong.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:08 am i kill ppl i cant chop... neither of these kills i would make

At a certain point today I was trying to figure out how to read the game I said to myself I would town read anyone who didn't vote Fext, then I looked at the player list and said fuck you all.

LC is an Alison kill

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:59 am Throws people, get your throws.

It's ok tbh I've played shit and been thoroughly outplayed by the wolves here so I won't actually be salty in post. I am actually extremely impressed.

I'm back to you or Seanzie I think, final answer.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:06 pm Thanks. Must have missed that post while reading.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:07 pm I don't think Wilgy's read is that objectionable. He's just saying "there's no real reason to put Creature up high, which means you know something about Creature we don't and have an outside agenda regarding him".

The next two posts

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:03 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:59 pm

Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:20 pm also I sympathize with Creature's thoughts about the gamestate and therefore it's more likely imo we're on the same team

also it can't both be a teammate interaction AND too much info - he's either exactly scum or exactly town, there is no in-between

Who suggested it was a teammate interaction/TMI?

*tips cowboy hat*

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:02 pm

Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 pm if I had to gth reads rn it'd look something like these two groups, townier one on top

NotAnAxehole
Creature
falcon45ca
Lime Coke

DrWilgy
MacDougall
Seanzie
Alison

although frankly I'm not confident I could put all of those into words I am open to being asked for what elaboration I can provide on a given player

also if I wrote this list again in an hour it could probably look completely different since I really am trying to build reads out of scraps

I gotta say Fext, this post ain't no good look for you.

Creature being so high up is either a teammate interaction or it's revealing too much info.

Alison and I being so low as well. Well now, I just don't know about that.

At first, I did agree with what Ms. Alison had to say about you and that rascal LC, but I also liked both of your initial responses. This, however, well this just ain't right.

Can someone point me to any other instance where Alison couldn't find a quote in the thread - specifically a quote she took notice of?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:02 pm

Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 pm if I had to gth reads rn it'd look something like these two groups, townier one on top

NotAnAxehole
Creature
falcon45ca
Lime Coke

DrWilgy
MacDougall
Seanzie
Alison

although frankly I'm not confident I could put all of those into words I am open to being asked for what elaboration I can provide on a given player

also if I wrote this list again in an hour it could probably look completely different since I really am trying to build reads out of scraps

I gotta say Fext, this post ain't no good look for you.

Creature being so high up is either a teammate interaction or it's revealing too much info.

Alison and I being so low as well. Well now, I just don't know about that.

At first, I did agree with what Ms. Alison had to say about you and that rascal LC, but I also liked both of your initial responses. This, however, well this just ain't right.

Can we at least all agree how bad this post looks with the benefit of hindsight?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:56 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:43 pm @DrWilgy is your roleplay supposed to in some way relate to the show, or the original series?

I ask because it makes it seem like you've never watched the show, is that accurate?

Partner, I watched 2 episodes with the wife and that's about it.

I just felt like this vernacular would be cute to hold as long as possible considering some goons started basing meta reads on me for what they deem as gimmicks.

Ok, yeah... I started watching to understand your gimmick and I'm like, it's a bit off. I do appreciate the effort though.

@Seanzie you realize the way the votes stand you're going to have to self-pres

@DrWilgy is your roleplay supposed to in some way relate to the show, or the original series?

I ask because it makes it seem like you've never watched the show, is that accurate?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:42 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:48 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:47 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:44 pm But I ain't mafia dangummit

Sure thing partner. I'm turning on the computer now to try to figure this fiasco out.

And?

What do you think of him now?

By the way, is there any forum on this site that has a less appropriate name than "The Hustle"?

Where is the town?

Thanks, Syn.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:23 pm The vote for a hammer needs to be unanimous. I currently only have logged votes from two players.

Exactly, it's more of a tease... Like oh, you could have this, but actually, it's basically impossible.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:44 pm But I ain't mafia dangummit

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:43 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:43 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:42 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:41 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:40 pm If we flip anyone other than Mac today, I'mma be super pissed.

Y'all really think it is a good idea to take PoE Mac into F3? No. It is not.

I will instantly flip Mac in final 3 if he's there. No discussion.

So he kills you tonight and then I have to sit there and thunderdome with him for a whole other day, and who knows what Creature does?

Not my problem. I think DrWilgy is mafia, and I'm staking my 100% accuracy on it.

I kindly ask you to please play to your true wincon, not a wincon you make up.

Is my wincon not to vote for mafia? I'm not going to have this discussion with you.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:42 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:41 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:40 pm If we flip anyone other than Mac today, I'mma be super pissed.

Y'all really think it is a good idea to take PoE Mac into F3? No. It is not.

I will instantly flip Mac in final 3 if he's there. No discussion.

So he kills you tonight and then I have to sit there and thunderdome with him for a whole other day, and who knows what Creature does?

Not my problem. I think DrWilgy is mafia, and I'm staking my 100% accuracy on it.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:40 pm If we flip anyone other than Mac today, I'mma be super pissed.

Y'all really think it is a good idea to take PoE Mac into F3? No. It is not.

I will instantly flip Mac in final 3 if he's there. No discussion.

If I don't have 100% voting this game, I'm considering it a loss.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:20 pm We should prob settle what to do if Mac is town.

For me, if it's not Mac, then it is Wilgy. But that's more because I think this game should be quite simple and I don't expect Alison and Seanzie to heroic bus each other.

I want Wilgy first because I think that's correct and I want a clean voting record.

We're missing votes from me and Mac for hammer to be activated.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:15 pm How do I approve the hammer thing?

Idk, Syn always says hammers can be activated, but I've never seen it happen.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:22 pm I re-read Alison's ISO. I'm so conflicted. I'll just kind of highlight what my thoughts were:

Creature - According to Alison, Creature hardly exists. You could read the ISO and forget that he is playing. It's very similar to how Alison handled my slot with the caveat that it deviates on D2... She had to find a D2 push, and I was on her case.

DrWilgy - Alison plays like DrWilgy isn't there, but then occasionally throws a weak town read that always has some sort of limp justification to it. I read this as extremely partner-y which is a big reason why I think DrWilgy is mafia (there's also another reason I have in mind, but flip a coin, I might get mod killed for voicing it - so I will refrain)

MacDougall - If I'm right, then the only positive thing MacDougall has done this game is he brought up DrWilgy as a potential target today... Everyone has bad games, but I almost feel like it's a disrespect to say Mac is town even if I kind of think he is, and I don't know if I could justify not making him one of the two eliminations. D1 consists of Alison going out of her way to be partner-y with Mac & Seanzie. There are other things that Alison does in her ISO that I think make Mac town... I'm not sure how to evaluate this because I think Alison was obvious wolf this game, but I don't know how she views her own game, so it's hard for me to judge how much she was setting up her own death as of D1, I would guess it probably wasn't at the top of the agenda...

Seanzie - Alison's approach to this slot is the same as her approach to Mac with the wrinkle that Alison has to try to convince Seanzie D2... I really have a sense that this interaction would have gone differently if W/W... Even the vote at EoD, I was fully expecting town!Creature to tie it up... So there's a good chance Alison bet on that as well - which would make Seanzie a ML target, not a distancing target.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:25 pm @MacDougall TBH, it reads like Alison was setting up to 1v1 you in F5, and whether town or mafia, you were just willingly walking the plank.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:36 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:25 pm @MacDougall TBH, it reads like Alison was setting up to 1v1 you in F5, and whether town or mafia, you were just willingly walking the plank.

Can you walk me through this? Personally, I think they have been trying to powerwolf for a sweep. Given the setup and player list, this is exactly what I would expect them to try for, and D1 makes sense for this, and Mac's attitude at SoD2 makes sense with this, as well as their posts about each other townleaning each other stronger than I would expect from either of them (except you know... when I was grilling them for hours about each other to the point where they absolutely had to show some "possible wolf here" thoughts)

There may have been times where they considered pivoting away from this strategy, but if I'm right about Mac here, I think this was their thought and general gameplan.

I will choose not to, but I agree with you if you're down for Mac + DrWilgy as the two elims.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:40 pm I don't think Mac kills Falcon, it's not in his best interest. *shrug*

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:47 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:42 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:36 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:25 pm @MacDougall TBH, it reads like Alison was setting up to 1v1 you in F5, and whether town or mafia, you were just willingly walking the plank.

Can you walk me through this? Personally, I think they have been trying to powerwolf for a sweep. Given the setup and player list, this is exactly what I would expect them to try for, and D1 makes sense for this, and Mac's attitude at SoD2 makes sense with this, as well as their posts about each other townleaning each other stronger than I would expect from either of them (except you know... when I was grilling them for hours about each other to the point where they absolutely had to show some "possible wolf here" thoughts)

There may have been times where they considered pivoting away from this strategy, but if I'm right about Mac here, I think this was their thought and general gameplan.

I will choose not to, but I agree with you if you're down for Mac + DrWilgy as the two elims.

In a world where Mac is town, DrWilgy is my next most likely suspect and as a legacy I will leave that they should be most scrutinized tomorrow if I am not alive, but I always re-evaluate everyone in a FX situation, and I recommend everyone in FX do the same if it gets to that. I don't think it will though, and I think Mac just ends this.

I think DrWilgy is mafia, so I'm gonna vote for them today... If I get to final 3, the odds of me voting Mac on policy is very high. Simply put, I think regardless of his alignment, he has put himself in a position to lose, and I can't overlook that if it goes to F3.

@MacDougall thoughts?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:42 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:36 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:25 pm @MacDougall TBH, it reads like Alison was setting up to 1v1 you in F5, and whether town or mafia, you were just willingly walking the plank.

Can you walk me through this? Personally, I think they have been trying to powerwolf for a sweep. Given the setup and player list, this is exactly what I would expect them to try for, and D1 makes sense for this, and Mac's attitude at SoD2 makes sense with this, as well as their posts about each other townleaning each other stronger than I would expect from either of them (except you know... when I was grilling them for hours about each other to the point where they absolutely had to show some "possible wolf here" thoughts)

There may have been times where they considered pivoting away from this strategy, but if I'm right about Mac here, I think this was their thought and general gameplan.

I will choose not to, but I agree with you if you're down for Mac + DrWilgy as the two elims.

In a world where Mac is town, DrWilgy is my next most likely suspect and as a legacy I will leave that they should be most scrutinized tomorrow if I am not alive, but I always re-evaluate everyone in a FX situation, and I recommend everyone in FX do the same if it gets to that. I don't think it will though, and I think Mac just ends this.

I think DrWilgy is mafia, so I'm gonna vote for them today... If I get to final 3, the odds of me voting Mac on policy is very high. Simply put, I think regardless of his alignment, he has put himself in a position to lose, and I can't overlook that if it goes to F3.

I don't think Mac kills Falcon, it's not in his best interest. *shrug*

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:36 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:25 pm @MacDougall TBH, it reads like Alison was setting up to 1v1 you in F5, and whether town or mafia, you were just willingly walking the plank.

Can you walk me through this? Personally, I think they have been trying to powerwolf for a sweep. Given the setup and player list, this is exactly what I would expect them to try for, and D1 makes sense for this, and Mac's attitude at SoD2 makes sense with this, as well as their posts about each other townleaning each other stronger than I would expect from either of them (except you know... when I was grilling them for hours about each other to the point where they absolutely had to show some "possible wolf here" thoughts)

There may have been times where they considered pivoting away from this strategy, but if I'm right about Mac here, I think this was their thought and general gameplan.

I will choose not to, but I agree with you if you're down for Mac + DrWilgy as the two elims.

@MacDougall TBH, it reads like Alison was setting up to 1v1 you in F5, and whether town or mafia, you were just willingly walking the plank.

I re-read Alison's ISO. I'm so conflicted. I'll just kind of highlight what my thoughts were:

Creature - According to Alison, Creature hardly exists. You could read the ISO and forget that he is playing. It's very similar to how Alison handled my slot with the caveat that it deviates on D2... She had to find a D2 push, and I was on her case.

DrWilgy - Alison plays like DrWilgy isn't there, but then occasionally throws a weak town read that always has some sort of limp justification to it. I read this as extremely partner-y which is a big reason why I think DrWilgy is mafia (there's also another reason I have in mind, but flip a coin, I might get mod killed for voicing it - so I will refrain)

MacDougall - If I'm right, then the only positive thing MacDougall has done this game is he brought up DrWilgy as a potential target today... Everyone has bad games, but I almost feel like it's a disrespect to say Mac is town even if I kind of think he is, and I don't know if I could justify not making him one of the two eliminations. D1 consists of Alison going out of her way to be partner-y with Mac & Seanzie. There are other things that Alison does in her ISO that I think make Mac town... I'm not sure how to evaluate this because I think Alison was obvious wolf this game, but I don't know how she views her own game, so it's hard for me to judge how much she was setting up her own death as of D1, I would guess it probably wasn't at the top of the agenda...

Seanzie - Alison's approach to this slot is the same as her approach to Mac with the wrinkle that Alison has to try to convince Seanzie D2... I really have a sense that this interaction would have gone differently if W/W... Even the vote at EoD, I was fully expecting town!Creature to tie it up... So there's a good chance Alison bet on that as well - which would make Seanzie a ML target, not a distancing target.