The Syndicate

GG, everyone! I don't really feel like I did anything this game after D1 aside from using Osie's strat for sending messages, so it feels weird winning.

Thanks for hosting, Urist!

I'd be willing to switch my vote.

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

lol, wow

Is the game really that broken?

[VOTE: Dr Wilgy] aubergine

Isn't nectarine a type of orange? o:

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:30 pm I don't think "they wouldn't bus two partners in a row" really applies when it's andres who had made what, 3 posts coming into today?

Yeeeeaah.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:55 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:49 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:43 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:40 pm If Andres flips mafia, I think it immediately clears Creature. And probably Jack, too? Because I don't think either of them bus their partners two days in a row. Annnnd, they've both been kinda pushing for Andres since yesterday?

You seem to like to preemptively clear people.
Why is Creature cleared in this scenario? I don’t see it

I like clearing people because I've found that it can influence what mafia does sometimes. If they keep me around, I tend to find that they'd rather not also bring someone I trust and can work with. Does that make any sense?

As for Creature... I feel that what I said is true just based on past experience with him, I think? Like... I wouldn't call Creature a practical player -- he can make plays sometimes that are just really bad for his alignment, just like me. Buuuut, like me, I think he knows his limit, and wouldn't willingly put himself into a position where he has to bus two partners in a row?

Yeah that makes sense. Usually when I hear the word clear, I expect it to be some undeniable mech thing, but looking at it as like ‘clear to me’ makes more sense. If a player is cleared, I want to just throw them in my knapsack and not worry about them any more.

That’s why NAA clearing himself made my eye twitch

Oh, yeah. When I say clear, I usually mean 'clear to me', unless I specify otherwise. I'm weird with words and phrasing sometimes from what I'm told. If there's any ever confusion, just ask, and I'll try to explain what I mean.

But yeah, 'clear to me' means I don't want to worry about them anymore until I absolutely have to look at them again. NAA trying to clear himself isn't too weird? After all, I tried to do the same thing today. However, I don't think he's as clear as he thinks he is? Right now, I'm just observing him and hoping things become more clear.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:43 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:40 pm If Andres flips mafia, I think it immediately clears Creature. And probably Jack, too? Because I don't think either of them bus their partners two days in a row. Annnnd, they've both been kinda pushing for Andres since yesterday?

You seem to like to preemptively clear people.
Why is Creature cleared in this scenario? I don’t see it

I like clearing people because I've found that it can influence what mafia does sometimes. If they keep me around, I tend to find that they'd rather not also bring someone I trust and can work with. Does that make any sense?

As for Creature... I feel that what I said is true just based on past experience with him, I think? Like... I wouldn't call Creature a practical player -- he can make plays sometimes that are just really bad for his alignment, just like me. Buuuut, like me, I think he knows his limit, and wouldn't willingly put himself into a position where he has to bus two partners in a row?

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:39 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:13 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:18 pm Oh, also when looking at direct interactions.

JoH and Creature stand out.

The interaction between a tossed read on creature and a question poised by JoH that was responded to there's not much. If any avoidable interactions were forced, it was one of these two.

Unless someone tells me a reason otherwise.

I just remembered something.

At the end of D1, when we were close to voting HK over, Jack chose to vote for me in the last five minutes of the day instead of helping the people wagoning HK with another vote on him. He explained it away be saying that being open to vote for anyone is bad, and that his vote on me was a symbolic one.

However, he ends up voting for HK by the end of D2. Furthermore, didn't someone suggest that a ring might have been used on HK to get him to survive through the vote until the start of D3? Or was his delayed death caused by the mechanics of Doom's ring use?

Besides the fact that mafia seemingly don’t have any way of killing besides corruption and NK, that’s the only way it could happen. Mafia definitely used that ring on HK.

Okay, this is what I thought. This is kiiiinda why I'm a little more hesitant to townread the people on HK's wagon from D2 than I am from D1. If the ring was used on HK, scum probably knew it, and might have been okay with HK getting yeeted since his death would get delayed a night.

If Andres flips mafia, I think it immediately clears Creature. And probably Jack, too? Because I don't think either of them bus their partners two days in a row. Annnnd, they've both been kinda pushing for Andres since yesterday?

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:31 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:14 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:56 pm I hate how most of my suspects are voting Screen.

I’m kinda entirely serious about cleaning out the three low posters.

Starting to think the same tbh

[VOTE: Andresmvp] aubergine

Is this a W/W interaction though? Individually, I think Creature's post here can come from either alignment. His playstyle shares some similarities with mine, especially in regard to using random votes to poke around. I'm further inclined to think this was a case of that since he switched his vote to HK by the end of the day.

If he is scum though, that probably means he abandoned the Andres wagon to bus his partner HK. Today, it looked like he abandoned his attempt to wagon Osie to vote for Andres. In this scenario though, I think Andres is town? Because Creature would still get towncred for bussing a partner as long as Andres get chopped at some point? I also think Osie would be town in this case, too, because there was a lot of resistance (including me) against voting Osie today.

I dunno though.

Hmm... I just noticed again that Osie and Andres are voting with each other on Scotty. I know I was on the wagon with them for some time, but I don't remember how long we were all on it together. The reason why it's interesting to me, though, is that maybe Creature was reacting to Osie's and Andres votes on Scotty? Scotty, who could be Creature's partner? The only thing against this though is, as I quoted above, Creature has been kinda pushing on Andres since yesterday?

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:14 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:56 pm I hate how most of my suspects are voting Screen.

I’m kinda entirely serious about cleaning out the three low posters.

Starting to think the same tbh

[VOTE: Andresmvp] aubergine

Is this a W/W interaction though? Individually, I think Creature's post here can come from either alignment. His playstyle shares some similarities with mine, especially in regard to using random votes to poke around. I'm further inclined to think this was a case of that since he switched his vote to HK by the end of the day.

If he is scum though, that probably means he abandoned the Andres wagon to bus his partner HK. Today, it looked like he abandoned his attempt to wagon Osie to vote for Andres. In this scenario though, I think Andres is town? Because Creature would still get towncred for bussing a partner as long as Andres get chopped at some point? I also think Osie would be town in this case, too, because there was a lot of resistance (including me) against voting Osie today.

I dunno though.

Also, not taking any chances this time, I think.

[VOTE: Andres] aubergine

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 5:18 pm Oh, also when looking at direct interactions.

JoH and Creature stand out.

The interaction between a tossed read on creature and a question poised by JoH that was responded to there's not much. If any avoidable interactions were forced, it was one of these two.

Unless someone tells me a reason otherwise.

I just remembered something.

At the end of D1, when we were close to voting HK over, Jack chose to vote for me in the last five minutes of the day instead of helping the people wagoning HK with another vote on him. He explained it away be saying that being open to vote for anyone is bad, and that his vote on me was a symbolic one.

However, he ends up voting for HK by the end of D2. Furthermore, didn't someone suggest that a ring might have been used on HK to get him to survive through the vote until the start of D3? Or was his delayed death caused by the mechanics of Doom's ring use?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:24 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:18 pm Wait, I know where I got confused. It was "no more than one a", but I forgot that also includes names WITHOUT and 'a', too. The seven I gave satisfy the condition one 'a', but doesn't start with K. That's why I'm getting more than 7 claims, but it makes sense now. My bad, lol.

Anyway, we can hammer Andres. I dunno why he hasn't been hammered? It looks like he's got enough votes.

(Though, I might actually read what Wilgy had to say about Andres before I add another vote on Andres.)

It was just the quandary as to why Andres and not Porscha. HK's context set them in contention.

Well, for me, I remember Porsha saying some stuff at the beginning of D2, which puts here just slightly higher than Andres, but relative to the rest of the playerlist? They're pretty much in the same position. I was also interested in looking at Jack's and Creature's ISO again after the stuff you brought up, though in Jack's case, he was one of the people who receive my message last night. I thiiiiink I'd always go for Creature over Jack at this second? I dunno. I've been pretty lazy today -- launched Civ 5 up two nights ago, and I haven't been able to stop playing it.

Wait, I know where I got confused. It was "no more than one a", but I forgot that also includes names WITHOUT and 'a', too. The seven I gave satisfy the condition one 'a', but doesn't start with K. That's why I'm getting more than 7 claims, but it makes sense now. My bad, lol.

Anyway, we can hammer Andres. I dunno why he hasn't been hammered? It looks like he's got enough votes.

(Though, I might actually read what Wilgy had to say about Andres before I add another vote on Andres.)

I'm still confused about some stuff regarding the number of people who claimed to receive my message, but I think I am ready to just hammer Andres? Andres hasn't claimed to receive my n2 message, so I think it's a safe way to go right now while I try to figure more things out.

osieorb18 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:17 pm With the condition "No more than one 'a' in the recipient's role name, and the recipient's role name cannot begin with 'K'."

...we can look at the following list of Rolenames:

Town Rolenames -

Isildur
Thranduil
Celeborn
Narvi
Disa
Arondir
Elrond
Elendil
Durin IV
Cirdan
Amdir
Celebrimbor
Glorfindel
Bronwyn
Durin III (MacDougall)
Celebrian

Gil-Galad
Tar-Minastir
Elanor Brandyfoot

Mafia Rolenames -

Annatar
Khamul
Witch-King of Angmar (Hollowkatt)
Ar-Pharazon

%%%

None of the mafia names fulfill the condition, and only three town names do.

How are you counting? From my PoV all of Thranduil, Narvi, Disa, Arondir, Cirdan, Amdir, Celebrian satisfy the condition you gave. That's seven. o:

I voted for Andres a second ago, but I think I might switch to Scotty for a little bit, because if Srceen is actually town, then the scumslip stuff is kinda weird. I'll move back to Andres (for real this time) once I've got some stuff figured out.

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

Moonwink wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:58 pm

srceenplay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:54 pm I wonder how mafias fake claims work with that rule?

I've wondered about that, too, but as far as I know, there are only 7 role names that fit that criteria.

It might be possible that fake claims counted as satisfying the condition, and since since the fake claims weren't given to any specific scum person, than ALL mafia members would have received it? That's the one case where it might be possible that MORE than 7 people received that message.

I think a better question for me to ask then is who DIDN'T receive my message?

srceenplay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:54 pm I wonder how mafias fake claims work with that rule?

I've wondered about that, too, but as far as I know, there are only 7 role names that fit that criteria.

It might be possible that fake claims counted as satisfying the condition, and since since the fake claims weren't given to any specific scum person, than ALL mafia members would have received it? That's the one case where it might be possible that MORE than 7 people received that message.

Alright, cool, we've got an eighth person who claimed to receive it. Are there any more people who are claiming to have received it? Just to be clear, my message was the one with the music note at the beginning of it. Martin's was the other.

Alright, just so we are clear,

osieorb18 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:42 amThe best way for town to use Ring #13 is to use the condition "No more than one 'a' in the recipient's role name, and the recipient's role name cannot begin with 'K'."

^ this is the condition I used. Look at the role names of town and of scum. What I saw was that NO scum role names fit this condition. All of them had TWO 'A's except for one, and that one began with a 'K'. Meanwhile, on the town side of things, I counted 7 names that fit that criteria.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:50 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:42 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:27 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:56 am Anyways mac and axe are both town, if HK is mafia then no more than one mafia in Moonwink, Marmot, DaughterOfOmega, srceenplay, Creature, MartinGG99

If HK is town probably multiple mafia in that group, so let's flip HK

good post in retrospect. i'd vote martin first then...i townread everyone heavily. maybe marmot.

@Moonwink why is martin confirmed TOWN to you--are you 100% sure? idgi.

@dunya
Martin was only a strong townread for me D1 and D2. During N3, they claimed to have received a message I sent using a condition that targets specific town role names. Osie also claimed to have received that same message, which is why I'm kinda confused right now about how they became a wagon. D:

how many people can you confirm with those messages cos everyone in chat seems to have received them so why does that make osie special?

So far, I've counted 6 people aside from me that have received my message.

Doom
Osie
Martin
Nanook
Jack
You

No one else has claimed to receive it, and that fits because only 7 people in total could have received it, and I'm one of those people.

If someone else is claiming they received my message, THEN we'll need to figure out who is lying.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:27 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:56 am Anyways mac and axe are both town, if HK is mafia then no more than one mafia in Moonwink, Marmot, DaughterOfOmega, srceenplay, Creature, MartinGG99

If HK is town probably multiple mafia in that group, so let's flip HK

good post in retrospect. i'd vote martin first then...i townread everyone heavily. maybe marmot.

@Moonwink why is martin confirmed TOWN to you--are you 100% sure? idgi.

@dunya
Martin was only a strong townread for me D1 and D2. During N3, they claimed to have received a message I sent using a condition that targets specific town role names. Osie also claimed to have received that same message, which is why I'm kinda confused right now about how they became a wagon. D:

Moonwink wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:13 am

Moonwink wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:00 am Alright, I got Martin's message last night (and it looks like everyone else did, which is perfect). I abandoned my original n1 plan and ended up using the exact condition that Osie mentioned yesterday to send out another message with my passive. Who all got it?

Alright, so far, it looks like from the neighborhood chat that Doom, Osie, and Martin all received it. This means that they're all likely confirmed town now. <3

As well as me, of course. -I- even received my own message.

Moonwink wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:00 am Alright, I got Martin's message last night (and it looks like everyone else did, which is perfect). I abandoned my original n1 plan and ended up using the exact condition that Osie mentioned yesterday to send out another message with my passive. Who all got it?

Alright, so far, it looks like from the neighborhood chat that Doom, Osie, and Martin all received it. This means that they're all likely confirmed town now. <3

Alright, I got Martin's message last night (and it looks like everyone else did, which is perfect). I abandoned my original n1 plan and ended up using the exact condition that Osie mentioned yesterday to send out another message with my passive. Who all got it?

srceenplay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:56 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:54 pm So... I hiiiighly doubt Doom chose me to be the deciding vote... but in the off chance that she did, I think I'm going to stick to srceen. Plus, if it's not me, I'm banking that who she chose is already voting for HK. That's my hope at least.

um, wouldn't your hope be for the person they picked to be voting with you?

I was debating switching to HK after Jack mentioned that we might have enough people to maj, and maj'ing someone would be very appealing. However, I feel more strongly about you being scum than HK, and I don't want to be responsible for you NOT dying if I actually am the one she chose.

So... I hiiiighly doubt Doom chose me to be the deciding vote... but in the off chance that she did, I think I'm going to stick to srceen. Plus, if it's not me, I'm banking that who she chose is already voting for HK. That's my hope at least.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:44 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:38 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:37 pm I still wanna yeet Moonwink for wanting to yeet anyone at all.

So, I seriously don't know how to read this tunnel on me. On one hand, I love that you're sticking to your guns on it, but on the other hand, 1. I don't know where it's coming from at this point, and 2. I don't view it as useful anymore. Are you annoyed that you were one of the people I was okaying with yeeting D1? Was it the HK vote? Was it the self-vote? I made very clear who my more preferred yeets were, and I did push and argue for people to help me yeet them. If I'm aiming to yeet someone D1, should I have STAYED on srceen and HOPE that people rejoin later on? Like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not apologizing for being open to yeeting anyone. :<

I also think self voting is >rand wolfy but whatever.

Why whatever? :<

So, I'm looking at the votes, and I feel like I'm MORE alarmed that there are people that HAVEN'T voted yet than I am about there being no wagon close to maj'ing. Are people just assuming that the person who Doom has chosen to be the deciding vote has already voted?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:37 pm I still wanna yeet Moonwink for wanting to yeet anyone at all.

So, I seriously don't know how to read this tunnel on me. On one hand, I love that you're sticking to your guns on it, but on the other hand, 1. I don't know where it's coming from at this point, and 2. I don't view it as useful anymore. Are you annoyed that you were one of the people I was okaying with yeeting D1? Was it the HK vote? Was it the self-vote? I made very clear who my more preferred yeets were, and I did push and argue for people to help me yeet them. If I'm aiming to yeet someone D1, should I have STAYED on srceen and HOPE that people rejoin later on? Like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not apologizing for being open to yeeting anyone. :<

@osieorb18 Is this the argument you're talking about? If so, I remember seeing it, but wasn't convinced by it. Pretending to not know about game mechanics is a 2 in my opinion on the 1 (EASY) to 10 (HARD) difficulty scale. This is why I tend to dismiss mechanics discussion in general -- not only is it boring to me, but in general, it's one of the easier things to talk about without revealing your alignment.

I -will- ask you a question though now that you've brought this up. You seem to put a lot of value into this argument if this is the one you're talking about. Why did you NOT like me saying that there was THREE of us in the pre-rand, and NOT four of us? I did NOT realize you were with us -- I thought you were co-modding at that point like you said you would be up for doing in the signup thread. Thus, I thought there were three of us. Why did you immediately jump to assuming that I faked not knowing there were four of us when you are so casually ready to believe that srceen maybe towntold based on mechanics talk?

Finally, I've been arguing that you two (you + srceen) are mafia. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to dismiss your thoughts about who I think may be a scumpartner of yours.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:34 pm Ah yeah now I remember.

srceenplay wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:00 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:57 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:53 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:34 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:21 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:18 pm good morning who's townie?

you tell me

I haven't read anything from over night

There’s like 40 posts and half of them are me, come on HK

creature, dunya, nanook, moonwink are all probably town.

are you happy now?

I think its easier to call all of them scum than town.

I personally agree with this statement, and we were united in our front against HK’s laziness.

Yes, I assumed you would agree with it. The reason he made it though, I think, is because he KNEW you'd agree with it and he KNEW it would unite you two. If he's scum, I feel like he's making this statement to encourage you to continue pushing HK, who would probably be town in this case, not because he actually believes it. Osie was doing something very similar when you started pushing and pressuring me.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:38 pm did srceen scumslip?

Oooh. Maybe. I didn't get to D2 stuff from him yet. That's a good find. I'll look at it again after looking at some other people.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:48 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:13 pm I know you received a ring last night (giving away rings can't be roleblocked). Use it tonight in a way that maximizes the number of people you can reach, but also GIVE IT AWAY to someone else that's NOT me. Also, I need you to tell me if you received a music note last night. You SHOULD have received one, but if I was roleblocked in any sort of way, then it might not have gone through.

I did get it, I didn't mention it because I figured it probably could've been used for tracking purposes on previous nights. Which it actually can surprisingly.

But I wasn't sure if it was going to be useful tonight.

Anyways, since I mentioned that I probably **have** to give it away now before I get shot

Okay, cool. <3 Don't say anything more about how it could be used or how you plan to use it. Let's wait until tomorrow.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:14 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:13 pm Okay, after thinking about it, I'm going to do something a bit crazy, but maybe also good.

@MartinGG99
I know you received a ring last night (giving away rings can't be roleblocked). Use it tonight in a way that maximizes the number of people you can reach, but also GIVE IT AWAY to someone else that's NOT me. Also, I need you to tell me if you received a music note last night. You SHOULD have received one, but if I was roleblocked in any sort of way, then it might not have gone through.

To all others:
Don't worry about mafia knowing that Martin has a ring. If Martin gets nightkilled, that's one less person in the game that you have to continue questioning about. If Martin gets roleblocked, it's a roleblock that wasn't used on a probably better ring. If Martin is mafia? We'll figure it out later.

Martin of all people? Didn’t realize you town read him

Dude, people were raking me over the coals for the entire latter half of D1 for my townread on Martin. Yes, I townread him.

Moonwink wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:13 pm Okay, after thinking about it, I'm going to do something a bit crazy, but maybe also good.

@MartinGG99
I know you received a ring last night (giving away rings can't be roleblocked). Use it tonight in a way that maximizes the number of people you can reach, but also GIVE IT AWAY to someone else that's NOT me. Also, I need you to tell me if you received a music note last night. You SHOULD have received one, but if I was roleblocked in any sort of way, then it might not have gone through.

To all others:
Don't worry about mafia knowing that Martin has a ring. If Martin gets nightkilled, that's one less person in the game that you have to continue questioning about. If Martin gets roleblocked, it's a roleblock that wasn't used on a probably better ring. If Martin is mafia? We'll figure it out later.

@MartinGG99

Okay, after thinking about it, I'm going to do something a bit crazy, but maybe also good.

@MartinGG99
I know you received a ring last night (giving away rings can't be roleblocked). Use it tonight in a way that maximizes the number of people you can reach, but also GIVE IT AWAY to someone else that's NOT me. Also, I need you to tell me if you received a music note last night. You SHOULD have received one, but if I was roleblocked in any sort of way, then it might not have gone through.

To all others:
Don't worry about mafia knowing that Martin has a ring. If Martin gets nightkilled, that's one less person in the game that you have to continue questioning about. If Martin gets roleblocked, it's a roleblock that wasn't used on a probably better ring. If Martin is mafia? We'll figure it out later.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:49 pm Yeah I hated screens post where at first he was like "I'm waiting for everyone else to grill u then I'll decide" followed by wishy washy stance on u.

Down to yeet there today too.

I'd actually be more comfortable going on srceen right now than I would be staying on the HK wagon, especially after rereading the initial stuff that happened between HK, Scotty, and Srceen. I don't think Scotty is mafia, but I do think he's got mafia egging him on (Osie and Srceen) whenever he's making pushes on town.

Srceenplay:

Let's get this one out of the way so that folks can actually make some arguments for why they think Srceen is actually town.

So, their D1 entrance was okay. That was followed by some discussion about mechanics, then we immediate get into the first big thing that kinda pinged me -- their (and Scotty's) push on HK.

I'm going to break this down from how it looked from my POV. HK, who from my experience, doesn't play much of D1, comes in and makes a post asking who has been townie. Scotty responds by essentially asking HK to read the game, which is not an unreasonable request. Not surprisingly to me, HK kinda puts up a fight about it, but eventually relents and gives some townreads.

It's AFTER this point that srceen enters the interaction. Just like Osie did when Scotty started questioning me, srceen starts shading HK and piggybacking on Scotty's pushes. In this case, he asserts that the people HK called town are easier to call scum, even though HK was asking about people who have been townie. He also doesn't provide any reasons why any of those people could be scum. Thus, I'm left wondering what the purpose of that post was aside from adding shade on HK. That shade is quickly followed by a vote on HK, which just immediately turns me off on voting for HK at that time.

tl;dr of the above: Srceenplay's entire early push on HK is completely unreasonable and it just comes off as an attempt (like Osie) to buddy up with Scotty, who is probably town and wrongly scumreading HK.

The other huge thing that pinged me, and the one thing that I keep bringing up, is the fact that they didn't have a read on me in spite of me being a top wagon at the time. It came off as an attempt to escape responsibility for my chop if I eventually did go over. The interaction that followed after I called them out on it didn't improve my impression on them.

Basically, when I ask them why they haven't formed a read on me yet and requested that they do, they quoted what I had told Dunia earlier in the day: "I haven't really tried forming a read on you yet. ;-; I figured with Mac and others talking to/about you, I'll have stuff to make a read on you later". It was an unneccesarily sassy response to me, and an very unreasonable one when you understand the context in which I said it versus the context in which he used it.

When I said it to Dunia, Dunia was NOT a top wagon and was NOT in danger of being chopped. If she had been in danger of being chopped, yes, I would have been quicker to make a read on her, especially since it could have influenced the wagons. That same influence over wagons is what I feel srceen was avoiding by not giving a read on me. THAT is why I thought it was scummy for him to not have a read on me. Sitting back and observing is fine when someone's not in danger of being chopped, not so much when they are.

I will say though (regarding Marmot) that I didn't get the vibe that he was TRYING to be towny or TRYING to get people to trust him. Sometimes with certain players, especially with Mac, I get the vibe that they are being extra performative to try to earn trust from people (as either alignment) -- to be fair, I do this a lot, too, lol. I... don't think Marmot is doing that here? Does that make sense?

Marmot:

Marmot was one of the people I wasn't too concerned about reading D1. His entrance + general friendliness made me just want to townread him, but in reality, like Dunia, he was probably closer to null with the cavaet that I was never chopping him D1 (since I didn't bother to read him).

It's funny, too, because he and Creature both mentioned having a lot of players that they wanted to leave alone with the hope that they'd sort themselves out -- this is pretty much what I had been doing with Marmot and Dunia.

I kinda like the way he approached Omega during the Mac+Omega squabble, but I feel like Marmot is very able to replicate his friendly demeanor as mafia, and what he showed there wasn't, like, super town-indicative.

I did engage him briefly when he cased HK, only because I thought that srceenplay was a much better yeet to pursue than HK. Just to restate my thoughts, I agreed with the first half of the case but thought it was NAI for HK, just based on my history of seeing HK not playing D1 in other games. I did like part of the second half of the case better, specifically his dislike of the townread HK gave to Omega. Overall though, I don't think the case was necessary. I'd dock town points for this. Also, I don't remember if he ever responded to my thoughts about the case and about srceen as an alternative.

EoD1 stuff kinda counterweighs, if not outright outweighs, the HK case. Small things I liked -- reminder that we needed 51% votes to chop, notifying Mac he was low on remaining posts when he had only 9 left he could make, trying to get HK's thoughts on the top wagons. Very calm overall. I think he asked enough questions (e.g. "Why would Doom have votes" to Nanook, "reads on top wagons" to HK), and gave enough unique thoughts (e.g. "Nanook's 'doesn't care attitude' doesn't look like he doesn't care") to break away from null for me into townleans. However, I don't view him as towny as I do Mac and Nanook.

osieorb18 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:56 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:44 pm When Scotty & srceenplay flip mafia, feel free to nominate me for best civilian. I'm going to see if I can find their 2 partners before EoD.

"Correct reads mean nothing if you can't effectively work as a team player. A town leader gets other people to trust them in addition to solving the game."

This is the second time you've said this, if I remember correctly.

I'm going to assume that you really believe this in general. If this is the case, then it makes perfect sense to me why you, as scum, didn't address any of the concerns I mentioned in my previous post. No one really trusts me at the moment -- thus, it doesn't matter what my concerns are, or whether they are valid or not. You can freely say I'm on another planet in terms of reads and not suffer any repercussions from it. I just am curious what you would have to say if people actually started believing me and listening to me.

Osieorb:
Kinda meh-ish entrance. Like, right out of the gate, they seemed eager to dislike a bunch of stuff (with one exception being liking Scotty's read). There was a distinct lack of fluff, y'know? Like, it came off as if they wanted to be seen as actively making reads and doing solvy stuff.

Another couple of nitpicky things -- 1. Osie nitpicky-ness towards Creature. Specifically, they called out Creature for mentioning they were bored in spite of just making a post about Pokemon (in response to the 'argument' me and Nanook were having). I know I called out Creature, too, for being bored, and also tried to get them to becoming 'unbored' by helping me wagon someone, but Osie shading there, with the inclusion of the Pokemon stuff, felt really opportunistic.

This wasn't the only instance of Osie being opportnistic this way either. When I mentioned the plan that StarV came up for us in the pre-rerand mafiachat, they only mentioned hating the idea and nothing else. Yet, when Scotty (the one person Osie explicitly stated to like early on) mentioned thinking it was weird that I was talking about it when I wasn't involved in the conversation, Osie started adding additional shade on me and supporting that it was odd of me to be talking about it.

2. In relation to the above, When Doom mentioned thinking HK and I were mafia before all that happened, they ask WHY us two. They weren't even scumreading me at the time. Thus, them throwing shade on me after Scotty called me out just comes off as Osie trying to buddy up to Scotty in an opportunistic way.

And there's further evidence that Osie didn't have a solid read on. After I mentioned that I try to play the same way that Mac mentioned scum-Dunya does, they asked if it was alignment-specific from me. tl;dr - I felt the amount of shade I receive from them at the time was unreasonable for the strength (or lack thereof) of the read they had on me. Like, what was the point of shading me that way when you didn't have that strong of a scumread on me? Unless it was to buddy up to/pocket Scotty?

3. The way they approached me when I was trying to call out Screenplay for not having a read on me at a time when I was a top wagon. I thought it was a very reasonable concern to have, yet Osie kinda just shoves away the idea that srceen could be mafia without even addressing the concerns I made in the post. They described me as "being on a different planet", but never tried to engage me to figure out why I have the reads that I do.

Mac:
Entrance + maybe first half of D1 (maybe shorter than that) felt most like him just doing his reaction testing and baiting shtick, which I tend to take as NAI. I even called him out on it when he tried suggesting that he thought I was suss. :P

I think the first serious push he made was the one on Dunya, and, like... I just didn't really feel like paying attention to it at the time. Shame on me maybe, but I just didn't feel like reading Dunya when she was townreading me at the time and when she was posting a decent amount of content. For that reason, I kinda just tuned Mac out for a while around this time. I may come back and add some stuff about Mac once I do actually flesh out my read on Dunya and see what they were arguing about, but as of right now, it has no negative influence on my read on Mac.

The next thing that stuck out to me was the stuff between Mac and Doom. What I saw (and please correct me if I'm wrong, either of you two) was that Doom got annoyed at Mac for having similar reads as her and for pressuring the people involved, and in turn, Mac got annoyed with Doom. This misunderstanding just came off to me as two town completely misunderstanding each other's playstyle and having difficulties communicating with each other.

The last big thing of note, and the thing that actually helped me settle full into my townread on Mac, was the post late into D1 where just lists, in tiers, the people he trusts and the people he wants to kill with fire. The HUGE thing that stood out to me was that he listed, in his topmost tier, the three top wagons at that moment: Nanook, Axe, Jack. Him posting this, I felt, was his attempt to try to move the votes away from the top wagons, and the reason why I liked this was because I felt like the wagons and the gamestate were getting stale. Everybody seemed perfectly fine with those three being the top wagons. My thought was that if Mac was scum, and if those weren't his teammates, he wouldn't try to destroy those wagons so late in the day. He'd just try to keep pushing on them in hopes that one of them would get chopped. It just doesn't seem very practical to lead people away from big wagons if you're scum and you're trying to chop people. The only exception to this was if he was AIMING for a no-elim as scum, but... I don't get the sense that this is the case?

I dunno. I just think Mac is town.

Nanook:
Entrance on D1 completely NAI. In fact, I think he's mentioned a plan to slank in a game in his opening post in a couple other games we've played together, and I feel like he's done it as both alignments? Same as baiting me into silly arguments (which I appreciate).

I think I start townreading him NOT when we agreed to wagon Jack together, but when he called for more votes on Jack. I've always felt like Nanook and I do have some similarities in terms of playstyle, and one of those similarities is making wagons on people NOT with an intention to chop them, but to just pressure them and get them to talk more, even if it's just about the wagon forming on them.

Could he do this as mafia? Probably. BUT, I specifically remember a time where he was scum, and he DIDN'T call for more votes on a wagon we agreed to join together. Granted, in that scenario, we were very close to EoD, and the player that I suggested wagoning ended up being his partner. Still though, I got good vibes from him regarding the Jack wagon.

His suggestion about placing votes on Doom had a similar vibe to him calling for more votes on Jack. At no point does he really go into reasoning WHY they should get votes -- just that they should get some votes. This is pretty much what I do just to see what people end up doing.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:11 pm Perhaps we should do an in-thread voting thing where we attach a # to each player on the list of the living.

Example:
"2" being I would vote this person
"1" being I would vote this person but I am reluctant to do so
"0" being I would never vote this person except for hammer
"-1" fuck you martin

At SoD,

2 Porscha
0 NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
1 Jackofhearts2005
0 MartinGG99
1 MacDougall
2 srceenplay
0 DaughterOfOmega
2 NotAnAxehole
2 Andresvmb
0 Creature
2 hollowkatt
1 Marmot
1 DrWilgy
0 Scotty
2 osieorb18
1 dunya

I feel like I should start fleshing out my reads though.

@Jackofhearts2005

JACK

Why did you NOT join us on the HK wagon and instead placed a wasteful vote on me in the last minutes of the day? :< At the time you placed that vote, there were only two remaining people voting me -- meanwhile, there were 7 people on HK. Yes, if nobody else had voted, HK still wouldn't have gone over, but still! D:<

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:05 pm Moonwink said this game "I won't spam much, and because of the postlimit I will act differently"

lol

I'll just say that I tried, lol. An attempt was made. I think I restrained myself well enough for the first 75% of D1.

Pick one, stick to it, pls. I'm always going to the one with the most votes.

(This is my last post. I can only vote now.)