It's a Mysterious Universe (D6)

[TonyStarkPrime]

Listening to In Rainbows. It's pretty good. Better than OK Computer or the other one I listened to. I wish I could understand what this dude was saying

[Sloonei]

Vulgard ISO

Spoiler: show

Oh yeah, hi TSP, Poison, LC. The others I haven't played with yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
Will get back here when there's stuff to work with.

Greets Tony and Poison, along with LC. These are apparently the only three players he has prior experience with. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I don't like Alison's thin read on Long Con, I don't think it's reasonable to townread him for such a thing this early.

I like Sloonei, though. I like how he's already hardcore solving, and he's doing that in a way which doesn't come across as forced.
To answer his question -- I'm honestly not sure how to answer it at this point, because my playstyle tends to be pretty fluid. I usually try to find mafia and/or town through macro reads, and when I want to push a mafia, I case them, like I did last game. This means that I am invariably stumbling around blind on day 1 and only later developing the ability to find people's alignments with higher confidence.

TL;DR Focus on macro reads, gets better as the game goes on, usually.

Harsh stance on Alison for her town read on LC. Even taking LC out of the equation, I think this is a good look for Alison; this is Vulgard's first substantial stance of the game, and it is pointedly anti-Alison. When you throw in that he's shading her for townreading his teammate, I find it extra unlikely that Alison is aligned with Vulgard/LC here. That's some deep dive distancing right off the bat.

He also instantly maneuvers to a townread on me. Either he's trying to pocket me or is acknowledging that I won't be a viable push this game (or he and LC coordinated behind the scenes to take opposite stances on me). Just noting this in case it reflects on any of his other reads elsewhere.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Syn] aubergine

I checked again and they have done nothing within their five posts. These posts were all spent on talking about themselves, their first post was a comment about the OP (which is not really game-related and is unlikely to out you as mafia when you talk about it as mafia), and they come across as trying to seem relaxed in the thread. Which is probably why they are spending so much time on "settling in."

I liked nutella's start, but I have some respect for their wolfgame, so I'm not going to pull an Alison and make a weakly supported solid townread on her out of nowhere.

This post is formatted exactly the same as the previous one, but with a vote this time. Vulgard opens with a paragraph about why he suspects Player A (Syn) and then writes a second, unrelated paragraph dedicated to town-reading Player B (nutella). I assume nutella is town. Syn was town. I am town. 3/4 names from these two posts are town right there. I will assume Alison is as well. 4/4.

Not really feeling Funnygurl's posts either. They feel too shitposty. Like, not in a way that comes from town. Does she always do that?

Does Vulgard treat his teammate like this? No one was really pressuring funnygurl at this point. Vulgard was starting to feel some heat at this point, though. This feels a bit too early for a panic bus on his part. Tentative good look for funnygurl. He substantiates his point here.

Spoiler: show

actually my first real read is that vulgard is fishing 'cause look at their read on alison too

you're gonna need more to catch alison as a wolf she's a goat

What do you mean by "fishing?"
And I don't know that. I haven't seen Alison play at all.

This does not feel like a staged interaction between teammates. funnygurl's tone is much more aggressive. Vulgard responds a bit timidly, turning her read into a question and then shrugging. If they are partners, I expect them to be a bit closer in tone here. For reference, Vulgard's next post is a similar response to Syn:

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Syn] aubergine

I checked again and they have done nothing within their five posts. These posts were all spent on talking about themselves, their first post was a comment about the OP (which is not really game-related and is unlikely to out you as mafia when you talk about it as mafia), and they come across as trying to seem relaxed in the thread. Which is probably why they are spending so much time on "settling in."

I liked nutella's start, but I have some respect for their wolfgame, so I'm not going to pull an Alison and make a weakly supported solid townread on her out of nowhere.

what kind of opportunistic hogwash is this

Of course my posts are going to talk about me when I was responding to someone specifically asking me about my play style. Bro what

I also seem to recall Alison doing something similar. What stopped you from calling her comment "opportunistic hogwash?"

Spoiler: show

#124 This is not alignment indicative for me, I always do this.

#153 Mostly the posts about me.

#165 Very aubergine.

Post #124 is funnygurl's response to the above post. She again comes off as the aggressor here, and Vulgard is clearly on the defensive in his response. I do not think this is what distancing looks like: vulgard initiated it, but funnygurl immediately spun it back around on him. If they are distancing, I would expect it to be move more consistently in one direction; Vulgard starts as the aggressor and maintains that role throughout, with only slight pushback from funnygurl. Instead, Vulgard made one point about funnygurl, and she immediately started wielding that to push her own suspicion against him, and his only response was to duck and cover.

153 is Alison challenging Vulgard's read on me. His response is similarly flat.
165 is me unvoting.

Spoiler: show

I honestly don’t understand what’s happening in the thread. It feels like everyone is just doing their own thing (e.g. shitposting / talking about out-of-game stuff). Which is not exactly unusual, but it makes it hard to find mafia.

Alison has really, really leveled up since I first expressed my dislike of her posts. I currently think she’s way more likely town than I did before.

Poison is weird this game. She seems a bit… muted. The preflip in post #299 is also very, very odd. It seems to imply that Syn is town and one of me/Alison is mafia voting Syn, which is a bold assumption to make and possibly indicative of TMI. I know it is thrown out as some kind of “hot take,” but it still feels awful to me.

Marmot’s first post is kinda towny, but my snapreads are legendarily bad, so I won’t rely on them too much.

Let's compare these three player assessments. Alison has "really, really leveled up"; i.e., she looks much better now than she did before. Okay.
Poison "is weird... muted... very, very odd." She possibly has TMI and it "feels awful" despite the hedge about the "hot take."
Marmot is "kinda towny" but we're just gonna chuck that read out of the window because

If one of these is Vulgard's teammate, it's Poison. The Alison read reads as a wolf surrendering on a push against a civilian who has become obvious. Marmot is town because "I read my teammate as town for no reason but I don't care about this read so I'm gonna ignore it and then vote for them" is not a thing that happens.
Poison gets three vaguely negative adjectives applied to her ("weird, muted, odd") before we get to the meaty part of the read, which is itself filled with erinaceous (this is a word and we're gonna make it catch on) language: "It seems...", "possibly indicative..." "I know x, but y." Given the conviction behind Vulgard's previous suspicions (Alison, Syn), the softness of this read makes it feel like he is hesitating and trying not to come off too strong. Also, this is his first mention of Poison in his ISO. Marmot as well, but Poison had been much more active than Marmot to this point.

Spoiler: show

#345 I literally caught you on that last game.

#350 Is another one of Syn’s takes which I hate. What do you mean, “town for flooding?”

I like what Tony’s doing.

I also think Mac’s towny. Can’t really explain why, though.

I think I’m sitting on something like Sloonei, Mac, TSP, Alison town, Poison and Syn sketchy. Marmot maybe town based on a snapread.

345 is a response to Tony criticizing Vulgard's suspicion of funnygurl. Vulgard seems to misunderstand that Tony (I think?) is commenting specifically on funnygurl. For some reason I feel like that's a good look for her. Maybe it's because Vulgard just seems to be pushing blindly here. If they are partners, he is being given an out to townread her but he doesn't notice.

The next two lines here are wacky and would have pointed strongly to Syn being town if he hadn't been town. He criticizes Syn for town-reading Tony, then in the very next line says, "I like what Tony's doing." Meh. Tony's town too.
He slaps a blank town read on Mac and arrives at the following breakdown of reads:
Sloonei
Mac
Tony
Alison
Marmot
Poison
Syn

Absent from this list: nutella, Long Con, funnygurl, Enrique.

funnygurl is town. Vulgard started a push on her earlier and then completely forgot about it when she fought back. If they are teammates, they are making a concentrated effort to distance from each other. Vulgard doesn't then forget to name her in his lsit of reads. We know that Long Con is Vulgard's partner because nutella shot him, so we can cross those two names off. That leaves us with Enrique, whose name, as far as I can tell, has not appeared once in Vulgard's ISO to this point.

Spoiler: show

I'm not sure what to think about Mac. I like his aggressive pop-ins, but this feels like the type of thing he could do as mafia as well.
Would like to see him provide something more than that.

I'd like to hear the take on nutella specifically, because he posted about it and seemed to immediately change his mind after. I'm not sure what prompted the change. I read that segment a few times and don't really understand the thought process.

First substantial mentions of Mac get an "Idk" and some more hedgy language with a prompt to throw further shade on nutella. This strikes me as a mafioso hoping that he can goad a vocal civilian into drumming up suspicion on another vocal civilian.

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Out of left field, here's a vote for Marmot! Then pay attention to the following sequence, all of which follows this vote:

Spoiler: show

...Wait. Why's Marmot selfvoting?

...Wait. Why's Marmot selfvoting?

Why are you Marmotvoting?

Because I want Marmot to do something other than selfvote, although I suppose that me saying that now defeats the purpose of my vote.

This is where I decided I could vote for Vulgard for sure yesterday. "[VOTE: " -> "I just noticed Marmot is self-voting, wtf?" -> "I am voting for Marmot because he is self-voting." This is not a progression that makes sense. This is not the kind of progression that Mafia #1 uses to push against Mafia #2. This is a mafioso who is trying to push a low-hanging fruit for reasons that are self-evidently bogus.

He follows that up with this:] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: I'm not sure what to do about Poison. I'm in a weird situation here. I think her play this game has been close to her mafia play... in an off-site game I read, but NOT the last game I played with her here, when she was mafia and fooled me. I dislike the fact her reads seem rather forced, and she seems to be struggling to find her footing in this game. The biggest thing going for her right now is postcount, because it shows that she is not afraid of voicing her thoughts, but there hasn't really been anything in her posts that made me think "this must come from town." I'm also more paranoid of her scumgame after the last game we played.

Alison is town, because I think that her thought processes not only make perfect sense, but show a lack of TMI. I might be severely underestimating her scumgame, but I think the complexity of her thoughts would be difficult to replicate as mafia. I think that if she were mafia trying to fake these thoughts, the thoughts would make less sense. But what she is saying is cohesive, I understand where she is coming from (for the most part), and she is being fairly consistent. I wrote that I did not like her early townread on Long Con, and she mostly ignored it in a way I also found very towny. There is just this air of stubbornness and confidence around Alison which I really could hardly see as coming from mafia.

TSP is town because he's actually solving in this game and he wasn't really solving in his last one. Or at least, some of his posts looked like he was solving, which is a notable improvement in comparison to the last mafia game I have seen from him. That said, the read is getting weaker, because I'm starting to see him shift back to his "I do not actually care about solving" approach. I also find the lack of shitposting very odd. Could potentially be mafia overcompensating for how I caught him last game...?
For now, I think the differences are notable enough, and I think he still deserves a townread, but I can see a world where he's mafia trying to appease me specifically, since I caught him last game and got nightkilled right after. I didn't have 100% confidence in my last game read, but it was correct, and it makes sense for mafia!TSP to play specifically in a way to fool me here. Although, maybe I'm overestimating my potential impact.
I'm getting sidetracked. The conclusion here is that I'm still fairly confident TSP is town, but I do see a singular world where he's mafia. I don't really think he's mafia, though.

[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

I'm not going to get anything from Marmot if they always selfvote like this. Would still like to see more than a selfvote, though.

By the way, @Enrique; how new are you to the game? Or did you already say it and I missed it? There's a read I have on you which only applies in case you answer in a specific way. I'm not saying what it is yet.] aubergine

[VOTE: The paragraph about Poison, once again, meanders around as the verbal equivalent to a series of shrugs. "I'm not sure... I'm in a weird situation...I think x but not y... her reads seem... and she seems... The biggest thing going for her is x, but... I'm paranoid because of past experience." Vulgard starts and ends this read on shaky ground, and never stops trembling in between. I have not seen him exhibit so much uncertainty when presenting his reads on any other player this game. Instead he says things like, "I don't like Alison's thin read on Long Con, I don't think it's reasonable to townread him for such a thing this early" or "I checked again and they (Syn) have done nothing within their five posts" or "I want Marmot to do something other than selfvote."
Hell, if you read the two town-reads in this same post (on Alison and Tony), his language is much less shaky. He caps it off with a vote for Poison. I'll also take this opportunity to note that Vulgard has mentioned Poison in exactly two posts so far. Both times, he has shaded her with his hedgerows and padded that read against two other reads on different players in the same post. Let's all act like the Rule of 3 is a rock solid scum tell now.

He caps the post by giving up on the Marmot post and acknowledging Enrique's existence for the first time to ask what his level of experience is. That could be staged. If it's not, then I think it's a very good look for Enrique. Presumably if these two had access to a private channel, Vulgard would have some familiarity with Enrique. But this would not be a particularly difficult thing to stage. I don't know if it is though. My general impression of Vulgard is that he was unable to get his feet under him in this game. Tacking on a random disassociating message for his partner at the end of a post like this would be a fairly composed move for a player in the position I'm projecting onto him here.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: We're at three "second votes being placed on someone" from vulgard now] aubergine

[VOTE:

And that matters... why? What do you think this means about my alignment? Or Alison's alignment, or Poison's?
This comment looks really random. Why does this matter to you?] aubergine

[VOTE: Welcome to Tonytown.] aubergine

[VOTE: @Sloonei Have you explained why you're voting Mac at any point?] aubergine

[VOTE: He asks me to talk about my vote for Mac. I hadn't done that. I never had any reason to be voting for Mac, I just left it there for a while to see if anything would come of it. This is question is all that there was. I essentially answered the question with a flat "No" and Vulgard never followed up. It doesn't tell me a whole lot. On one hand, he could be trying to get me to provide him with an avenue to vote for Mac. On the other, he could be asking me to make a case against his partner as an indirect distancing tactic. I have no particular reason to read this one way or the other. I think Mac is town outside of this moment.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Alright, great job.
Sloonei and nutella are pretty clearly town to me at this point. I did tell you that Sloonei was solvy in a non-bad-faith way, now you can probably see it.
Nutella dayvigged a mafia. Locktown, reevaluate maybe in LyLo but I doubt she lives that long if town.
More confident about TSP being town now as well.

I'll go into LC spew, too. A part of me doesn't like Mac being like "everyone but Syn and Vulgard is mafia based on LC spew" because that seems like a cop-out response and could possibly lead to chainyeets on town. It feels like he tried to push agenda immediately following his partner kicking the bucket.] aubergine

[VOTE: Vulgard's immediate response to LC getting hardcore f'd is to shade Mac. Good look for Dougall.

Big post of LC analysis which largely confirms reads I've already arrived at. I'll pull a few snippets that are relevant.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Interactions with Poison feel VERY W/W. Neither of them is really trying to suspect the other, nor are they trying to openly townread the other. When they interact, there is no attempt to solve each other that I can see. They talk about some previous games and about being happy to meet each other in this game. It's like they already know the other's alignment in their minds.] aubergine

[VOTE: This is the first negative stance he has taken in the post. I awarded Mac a town-lean in the previous post because I do not think Vulgard's immediate response to losing a partner mid-Day 1 would be to start bussing his other (assuming a 3-person mafia team because starting the game at 8 vs 4 in-thread is wacky). This point on Poison is slightly different because it's tucked into a much larger analytical post that Vulgard has more time to think about. But it still does give me pause that he's singling her out as a suspect in this instance. Not enough to undo the existing suspicion I have against her, but enough for me to stop and think for a moment. God knows I'm not thinking otherwise.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: More defending of Syn. Feels like whiteknighting, but I could see that being distancing. "Also, it's Syn's first game on the site, so it would be especially predatory for them to dive on together." Better look for Syn.

Defending Marmot as well. LC defends plenty of people I would say are "easy targets to push" in this game. I don't think he would whiteknight all of them as mafia. Looking primarily at Syn/Marmot here (sorry if me calling you that offends you).] aubergine

[VOTE: He works pretty hard to arrive at a slight suspicion on Marmot. This looks like he's trying to shade a low-hanging but not-overtly-suspicious town rodent.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Noting that LC slowly shifts into "scumreading Poison" after the threadflow goes in that direction, instead of progressing his read on her by himself. He doesn't really push Poison very hard, either. He did something similar with me earlier, and then he promptly forgot about me after the thread shifted away from me. Both these pushes were most likely in bad faith, and what differentiates the push on Poison from the push on me is that he didn't really try to solve Poison's alignment for over 10 pages, until he was forced to. For me, he instantly decided I'm mafia, then backtracked and... forgot about it?

It feels more like he slowly leaned into pushing on Poison when he really did not want to, meanwhile it came very easy for him to push on me before forgetting about me as a target. I think this says that Poison's pretty likely mafia.

I'm also noting the random shade on Mac at the end, but it's nowhere near enough to say that Mac's spewed town as a result.] aubergine

[VOTE: He continues to be committed to shading Poison. My point has not changed. Enough to give me pause, but not nearly enough to remove her as a suspect. This is coming too little too late. I don't think he's really in a position, if Poison is his teammate, to not suspect her here. He had already started to lay the groundwork for that read prior to LC's flip, and he's going to be able to see the agenda in all their interactions clearly, and he can also see the direction the thread is moving at this time. To suddenly do a 180 on Poison here could be a death sentence for each of them.
The shade on Mac comes across more softly. He has very little to say about it, but makes a point to leave Mac in the POE. It's a passing mention at best. My gut says he doesn't even bother to say so little if Mac is his partner. Either go big or go home there.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Conclusions:

Syn/Marmot might contain 1 mafia based on how LC decided to defend/WK both (and shade one).
Poison is very likely mafia, which aligns with my independent read on her. Kill Poison today.
Alison and Sloonei (and nutella) are certainly town based on LC spew and other factors. Pretty sure he spewed me town as well.
Interaction with TSP is very weird but doesn't really point me in either direction. Same with the Mac interaction.

Don't need to change my vote.] aubergine

[VOTE: Syn/Marmot contains 0 mafia.
Poison is indeed very likely mafia.
Agreed that Alison and nutella are cleared by LC's flip.
Interaction with TSP pretty clearly pointed to TSP being town, so I disagree there. I also don't remember being able to do much with Mac, but the fact that Vulgard is making a point to dangle his name as a suspect here feels good.
No clues as the the whereabouts of funnygurl and Enrique.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Having done this, I find it really suspicious that Mac instantly went "LC spewed everyone but Syn and Vulgard town, let's kill Syn and Vulgard." Really feels like a bad-faith opportunistic push and I hate it.
I'd like to focus on Mac after we get Poison.] aubergine

[VOTE: I can very easily read this as "Once I've bussed my teammate, we should probably look at poor innocent MacDougall next."] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Funnygurl still voting for No Yeet is unfortunately >rand town unless she does this stupid stuff as mafia too.] aubergine

[VOTE: A late funnygurl spotting. It almost comes out as a town-read, but he can't quite force himself to get all the way there.

----
Rainbow list based purely on these interactions, including the removed players:
nutella
Tony
funnygurl
Alison
Marmot
Mac
Enrique
Poison] aubergine

[Sloonei]

Listening to In Rainbows. It's pretty good. Better than OK Computer or the other one I listened to. I wish I could understand what this dude was saying

transcription: eeefeiiiii ooooooooo asaaa aaaahhhh ahahhhhhhhhhhh videotape

[Sloonei]

i put nutella at the top of that rainbow despite there being no memorable mentions of her in vulgard's iso because i assume he didn't put any thought into pretending to read her because nutella is obviously town and shot long con.

[Sloonei]

"Is Enrique mafia?" Sloonei asks himself.
Sloonei opens Enrqiue's ISO. Sloonei sees the following post:

Spoiler: show

I think Vulgard is playing day 1 in much the way that other people play day 1. means nothing.

What do you think about the people who piled on Vulgard then? Which of them look like opportunistic scum trying to throw shade to you, and which of them look like townies with legit suspicions?

1. I don’t agree with them (you).
2. funnygurl
3. I wouldn’t say anybody *looks* like that. I could buy most of them (you) individually. But I wouldn’t go as far as to say I’m getting a good vibe from anyone in this group.

What parts of FG's progression felt off to you?

If all of us have very little justification to seriously suspect anyone right now, fg’s pointing at Vulgard seemed especially low effort... I don’t get the “fishing” thing or how it’s alignment indicative at this stage of the game. How she defines it looks to me like both what she’s doing and what everyone else is doing:

it looks like you're trying to form reads and give an appearance of wolf hunting when a) it ain't really the time for it and b) your suspicions are of little substance atm

I think people are allowed to be hypocrites about how they play vs. how they read other players, but this was really on the nose and smelled at least a little funny to me.

Now excuse me for contradicting myself about forgiving hypocrisies but I just noticed this about another player while going through some ISOs:

People have squinted at me for saying that I have "genuine" reads in the past, as if every read I share as town is supposed to be genuine.

So with that in mind, here's a read of unknown sincerity:

Vulgard is mafia.

I can see it. Pre-slank excuse, mech chatter, and bland greetings.

I could see Vulgard being scum but mostly because their posting looks kinda carefully controlled to be as inoffensive and trigger people's scumdars as little as possible. I had a confused reaction to that mechanic as well so I don't blame them for the mech chatter, and I think pre-slank excuses are NAI. There are very few people (in general, but especially on the Syndicate) who roll scum and then go "alright! I'm going to go and give an excuse so I can coast through D1!" Not only is this just uncommon behavior, it's also suboptimal - you allow yourself to engage in some anti-town behavior, but in exchange you lose a lot of ability to gain trust and manipulate the town. Syndicate is not a site that is afraid to exe slankers and you will win a lot more games by powerwolfing than coasting.

But really, I like your angle on the pre-slank excuse. Vulgard is a Champs player if I'm not mistaken, and that would apply more to that type of player more than a casual player. I think mech chatter and bland greetings do fall under the "carefully controlled to be as inoffensive and trigger people's scumdars as little as possible" umbrella.

@nutella you were one of the out-of-thread demi-gods in Assassin's Creed. What can you tell us about that experience?

What do you mean by “theory meta”?

@TonyStarkPrime @Poison what are your thoughts on this game's version of Vulgard compared to the version you saw in the previous game?

I lean scum on Sloonei right now because these questions don't feel like they have any solving intention behind them. They're just filling out his post count. The first one especially rubs me the wrong way. The only thing I assume about this Nanook game is that the out-of-thread element is not the same as his last game, because I expect Nanook to have a bit more creativity than that. I expect, at the very least, a fun twist on it that would intentionally subvert our assumptions based on the previous game. Standard 'sequel' stuff.

That said, I can't see what value Sloonei expected from that question. There's nothing alignment-indicative about the way nutella answers this, and there's probably little relevance to this game.

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

Ironically these two are the most substantive of LC’s 40
posts in the game yet! And they’re both about scum doing inoffensive fluffing.

Sloonei says, "No, this is probably town."

Everyone starts to pile on Vulgard right away. Enrique steps in to be the lone voice in Vulgard's corner. His argument isn't much at all, but he states it with conviction. Immediately afterward, in the exact same post he goes on to criticize Long Con in detail.

If Enrique is mafia, then his plan in this singular post is the boldly and firmly defend a partner who everybody else is piling onto at the time, and to then follow up that by going out of his way to shade his other teammate, who is a lighter suspect in the thread at the moment. No one is talking about Enrique at this point, from what I can remember.

[nutella]

ok that was long but had lots of good points im sold

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: poison] aubergine

She looks Not Town. Everybody else looks Town.

[Sloonei]

the problem with writing massive posts is that they take a long time to make so then by the time i reach the end i'm impatient and never go back to proofread.

[Funnygurl555]

yeah i'm voting for poison

group project............ COMPLETED

[Funnygurl555]

enrique so like why are you voting for me tho

[Sloonei]

mafia is the only group project i ever liked.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Listening to In Rainbows. It's pretty good. Better than OK Computer or the other one I listened to. I wish I could understand what this dude was saying

transcription: eeefeiiiii ooooooooo asaaa aaaahhhh ahahhhhhhhhhhh videotape

this is exactly accurate to my listening experience

[TonyStarkPrime]

Normally I'd be here to push back against the inevitable Poison chop and I'm trying to drum up that energy

[Funnygurl555]

Normally I'd be here to push back against the inevitable Poison chop and I'm trying to drum up that energy

i feel that but poe game is strong here

[TonyStarkPrime]

Recall, though, we're at L-2 right now.

[Sloonei]

Recall, though, we're at L-2 right now.

huh

[nutella]

oh true

[nutella]

5 is hammer

[Funnygurl555]

fiine i unvoted

[VOTE: no one] aubergine

[Sloonei]

How is this L-2? What do we know about the mechanics of this game?

[Poison]

[VOTE: poison] aubergine

She looks Not Town. Everybody else looks Town.

So, who are you going to look into after my flip? You have to decide from these towny people only.

[Poison]

mafia is the only group project i ever liked.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: poison] aubergine

She looks Not Town. Everybody else looks Town.

So, who are you going to look into after my flip? You have to decide from these towny people only.

I’m open to suggestions.

[Poison]

[VOTE: poison] aubergine

She looks Not Town. Everybody else looks Town.

So, who are you going to look into after my flip? You have to decide from these towny people only.

I’m open to suggestions.

I would say looking into funnygurl / enrique, marmot seemed towny to me.

Why do you town read them btw?

[TonyStarkPrime]

How is this L-2? What do we know about the mechanics of this game?

host post saying 5 is chop?

[Poison]

I kinda feel bad for town!Sloonei, after all that assessment and his time on making the post, but in the end it is wrong. Would blame my playstyle for sure.

[Sloonei]

How is this L-2? What do we know about the mechanics of this game?

host post saying 5 is chop?

... i was thinking you meant we are one mischop away from lylo.

This is what a Mafia Champion looks like, folks.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Sorry for the delay, sometimes the universe is a slow place. Something something the value of patience.

In the night! @Syn dies, and they flip as:

Loyal Sidekick

You are aware that [redacted] is town (they do not know your alignment). The first time they would die (except to TK) you will die in their place.

You are town, and you win when all the mafia are eliminated

In addition! @Alison has been removed from the thread today. She cannot vote or be voted for.

In addition! @MacDougall has been removed from the thread today. He cannot vote or be voted for.

Do your worst, space people!

@Sloonei
@nutella
@Funnygurl555
@Marmot
@TonyStarkPrime
@Poison
@Enrique

D2 ends October 29, 5pm EDT (or at hammer, which is 5 votes).

[TonyStarkPrime]

How is this L-2? What do we know about the mechanics of this game?

host post saying 5 is chop?

... i was thinking you meant we are one mischop away from lylo.

This is what a Mafia Champion looks like, folks.

Amazing work

[Sloonei]

I kinda feel bad for town!Sloonei, after all that assessment and his time on making the post, but in the end it is wrong. Would blame my playstyle for sure.

This is the second time you’ve made this post in this game.

Also my reasons for town reading Marmot and funnygurl are in that big post. I town-read Enrique for my other big post on this page.

[Enrique]

Vulgard ISO

Spoiler: show

Oh yeah, hi TSP, Poison, LC. The others I haven't played with yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
Will get back here when there's stuff to work with.

Greets Tony and Poison, along with LC. These are apparently the only three players he has prior experience with. Okay.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I don't like Alison's thin read on Long Con, I don't think it's reasonable to townread him for such a thing this early.

I like Sloonei, though. I like how he's already hardcore solving, and he's doing that in a way which doesn't come across as forced.
To answer his question -- I'm honestly not sure how to answer it at this point, because my playstyle tends to be pretty fluid. I usually try to find mafia and/or town through macro reads, and when I want to push a mafia, I case them, like I did last game. This means that I am invariably stumbling around blind on day 1 and only later developing the ability to find people's alignments with higher confidence.

TL;DR Focus on macro reads, gets better as the game goes on, usually.

Harsh stance on Alison for her town read on LC. Even taking LC out of the equation, I think this is a good look for Alison; this is Vulgard's first substantial stance of the game, and it is pointedly anti-Alison. When you throw in that he's shading her for townreading his teammate, I find it extra unlikely that Alison is aligned with Vulgard/LC here. That's some deep dive distancing right off the bat.

He also instantly maneuvers to a townread on me. Either he's trying to pocket me or is acknowledging that I won't be a viable push this game (or he and LC coordinated behind the scenes to take opposite stances on me). Just noting this in case it reflects on any of his other reads elsewhere.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Syn] aubergine

I checked again and they have done nothing within their five posts. These posts were all spent on talking about themselves, their first post was a comment about the OP (which is not really game-related and is unlikely to out you as mafia when you talk about it as mafia), and they come across as trying to seem relaxed in the thread. Which is probably why they are spending so much time on "settling in."

I liked nutella's start, but I have some respect for their wolfgame, so I'm not going to pull an Alison and make a weakly supported solid townread on her out of nowhere.

This post is formatted exactly the same as the previous one, but with a vote this time. Vulgard opens with a paragraph about why he suspects Player A (Syn) and then writes a second, unrelated paragraph dedicated to town-reading Player B (nutella). I assume nutella is town. Syn was town. I am town. 3/4 names from these two posts are town right there. I will assume Alison is as well. 4/4.

Not really feeling Funnygurl's posts either. They feel too shitposty. Like, not in a way that comes from town. Does she always do that?

Does Vulgard treat his teammate like this? No one was really pressuring funnygurl at this point. Vulgard was starting to feel some heat at this point, though. This feels a bit too early for a panic bus on his part. Tentative good look for funnygurl. He substantiates his point here.

Spoiler: show

actually my first real read is that vulgard is fishing 'cause look at their read on alison too

you're gonna need more to catch alison as a wolf she's a goat

What do you mean by "fishing?"
And I don't know that. I haven't seen Alison play at all.

This does not feel like a staged interaction between teammates. funnygurl's tone is much more aggressive. Vulgard responds a bit timidly, turning her read into a question and then shrugging. If they are partners, I expect them to be a bit closer in tone here. For reference, Vulgard's next post is a similar response to Syn:

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Syn] aubergine

I checked again and they have done nothing within their five posts. These posts were all spent on talking about themselves, their first post was a comment about the OP (which is not really game-related and is unlikely to out you as mafia when you talk about it as mafia), and they come across as trying to seem relaxed in the thread. Which is probably why they are spending so much time on "settling in."

I liked nutella's start, but I have some respect for their wolfgame, so I'm not going to pull an Alison and make a weakly supported solid townread on her out of nowhere.

what kind of opportunistic hogwash is this

Of course my posts are going to talk about me when I was responding to someone specifically asking me about my play style. Bro what

I also seem to recall Alison doing something similar. What stopped you from calling her comment "opportunistic hogwash?"

Spoiler: show

#124 This is not alignment indicative for me, I always do this.

#153 Mostly the posts about me.

#165 Very aubergine.

Post #124 is funnygurl's response to the above post. She again comes off as the aggressor here, and Vulgard is clearly on the defensive in his response. I do not think this is what distancing looks like: vulgard initiated it, but funnygurl immediately spun it back around on him. If they are distancing, I would expect it to be move more consistently in one direction; Vulgard starts as the aggressor and maintains that role throughout, with only slight pushback from funnygurl. Instead, Vulgard made one point about funnygurl, and she immediately started wielding that to push her own suspicion against him, and his only response was to duck and cover.

153 is Alison challenging Vulgard's read on me. His response is similarly flat.
165 is me unvoting.

Spoiler: show

I honestly don’t understand what’s happening in the thread. It feels like everyone is just doing their own thing (e.g. shitposting / talking about out-of-game stuff). Which is not exactly unusual, but it makes it hard to find mafia.

Alison has really, really leveled up since I first expressed my dislike of her posts. I currently think she’s way more likely town than I did before.

Poison is weird this game. She seems a bit… muted. The preflip in post #299 is also very, very odd. It seems to imply that Syn is town and one of me/Alison is mafia voting Syn, which is a bold assumption to make and possibly indicative of TMI. I know it is thrown out as some kind of “hot take,” but it still feels awful to me.

Marmot’s first post is kinda towny, but my snapreads are legendarily bad, so I won’t rely on them too much.

Let's compare these three player assessments. Alison has "really, really leveled up"; i.e., she looks much better now than she did before. Okay.
Poison "is weird... muted... very, very odd." She possibly has TMI and it "feels awful" despite the hedge about the "hot take."
Marmot is "kinda towny" but we're just gonna chuck that read out of the window because

If one of these is Vulgard's teammate, it's Poison. The Alison read reads as a wolf surrendering on a push against a civilian who has become obvious. Marmot is town because "I read my teammate as town for no reason but I don't care about this read so I'm gonna ignore it and then vote for them" is not a thing that happens.
Poison gets three vaguely negative adjectives applied to her ("weird, muted, odd") before we get to the meaty part of the read, which is itself filled with erinaceous (this is a word and we're gonna make it catch on) language: "It seems...", "possibly indicative..." "I know x, but y." Given the conviction behind Vulgard's previous suspicions (Alison, Syn), the softness of this read makes it feel like he is hesitating and trying not to come off too strong. Also, this is his first mention of Poison in his ISO. Marmot as well, but Poison had been much more active than Marmot to this point.

Spoiler: show

#345 I literally caught you on that last game.

#350 Is another one of Syn’s takes which I hate. What do you mean, “town for flooding?”

I like what Tony’s doing.

I also think Mac’s towny. Can’t really explain why, though.

I think I’m sitting on something like Sloonei, Mac, TSP, Alison town, Poison and Syn sketchy. Marmot maybe town based on a snapread.

345 is a response to Tony criticizing Vulgard's suspicion of funnygurl. Vulgard seems to misunderstand that Tony (I think?) is commenting specifically on funnygurl. For some reason I feel like that's a good look for her. Maybe it's because Vulgard just seems to be pushing blindly here. If they are partners, he is being given an out to townread her but he doesn't notice.

The next two lines here are wacky and would have pointed strongly to Syn being town if he hadn't been town. He criticizes Syn for town-reading Tony, then in the very next line says, "I like what Tony's doing." Meh. Tony's town too.
He slaps a blank town read on Mac and arrives at the following breakdown of reads:
Sloonei
Mac
Tony
Alison
Marmot
Poison
Syn

Absent from this list: nutella, Long Con, funnygurl, Enrique.

funnygurl is town. Vulgard started a push on her earlier and then completely forgot about it when she fought back. If they are teammates, they are making a concentrated effort to distance from each other. Vulgard doesn't then forget to name her in his lsit of reads. We know that Long Con is Vulgard's partner because nutella shot him, so we can cross those two names off. That leaves us with Enrique, whose name, as far as I can tell, has not appeared once in Vulgard's ISO to this point.

Spoiler: show

I'm not sure what to think about Mac. I like his aggressive pop-ins, but this feels like the type of thing he could do as mafia as well.
Would like to see him provide something more than that.

I'd like to hear the take on nutella specifically, because he posted about it and seemed to immediately change his mind after. I'm not sure what prompted the change. I read that segment a few times and don't really understand the thought process.

First substantial mentions of Mac get an "Idk" and some more hedgy language with a prompt to throw further shade on nutella. This strikes me as a mafioso hoping that he can goad a vocal civilian into drumming up suspicion on another vocal civilian.

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Out of left field, here's a vote for Marmot! Then pay attention to the following sequence, all of which follows this vote:

Spoiler: show

...Wait. Why's Marmot selfvoting?

...Wait. Why's Marmot selfvoting?

Why are you Marmotvoting?

Because I want Marmot to do something other than selfvote, although I suppose that me saying that now defeats the purpose of my vote.

This is where I decided I could vote for Vulgard for sure yesterday. "[VOTE: " -> "I just noticed Marmot is self-voting, wtf?" -> "I am voting for Marmot because he is self-voting." This is not a progression that makes sense. This is not the kind of progression that Mafia #1 uses to push against Mafia #2. This is a mafioso who is trying to push a low-hanging fruit for reasons that are self-evidently bogus.

He follows that up with this:] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: I'm not sure what to do about Poison. I'm in a weird situation here. I think her play this game has been close to her mafia play... in an off-site game I read, but NOT the last game I played with her here, when she was mafia and fooled me. I dislike the fact her reads seem rather forced, and she seems to be struggling to find her footing in this game. The biggest thing going for her right now is postcount, because it shows that she is not afraid of voicing her thoughts, but there hasn't really been anything in her posts that made me think "this must come from town." I'm also more paranoid of her scumgame after the last game we played.

Alison is town, because I think that her thought processes not only make perfect sense, but show a lack of TMI. I might be severely underestimating her scumgame, but I think the complexity of her thoughts would be difficult to replicate as mafia. I think that if she were mafia trying to fake these thoughts, the thoughts would make less sense. But what she is saying is cohesive, I understand where she is coming from (for the most part), and she is being fairly consistent. I wrote that I did not like her early townread on Long Con, and she mostly ignored it in a way I also found very towny. There is just this air of stubbornness and confidence around Alison which I really could hardly see as coming from mafia.

TSP is town because he's actually solving in this game and he wasn't really solving in his last one. Or at least, some of his posts looked like he was solving, which is a notable improvement in comparison to the last mafia game I have seen from him. That said, the read is getting weaker, because I'm starting to see him shift back to his "I do not actually care about solving" approach. I also find the lack of shitposting very odd. Could potentially be mafia overcompensating for how I caught him last game...?
For now, I think the differences are notable enough, and I think he still deserves a townread, but I can see a world where he's mafia trying to appease me specifically, since I caught him last game and got nightkilled right after. I didn't have 100% confidence in my last game read, but it was correct, and it makes sense for mafia!TSP to play specifically in a way to fool me here. Although, maybe I'm overestimating my potential impact.
I'm getting sidetracked. The conclusion here is that I'm still fairly confident TSP is town, but I do see a singular world where he's mafia. I don't really think he's mafia, though.

[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

I'm not going to get anything from Marmot if they always selfvote like this. Would still like to see more than a selfvote, though.

By the way, @Enrique; how new are you to the game? Or did you already say it and I missed it? There's a read I have on you which only applies in case you answer in a specific way. I'm not saying what it is yet.] aubergine

[VOTE: The paragraph about Poison, once again, meanders around as the verbal equivalent to a series of shrugs. "I'm not sure... I'm in a weird situation...I think x but not y... her reads seem... and she seems... The biggest thing going for her is x, but... I'm paranoid because of past experience." Vulgard starts and ends this read on shaky ground, and never stops trembling in between. I have not seen him exhibit so much uncertainty when presenting his reads on any other player this game. Instead he says things like, "I don't like Alison's thin read on Long Con, I don't think it's reasonable to townread him for such a thing this early" or "I checked again and they (Syn) have done nothing within their five posts" or "I want Marmot to do something other than selfvote."
Hell, if you read the two town-reads in this same post (on Alison and Tony), his language is much less shaky. He caps it off with a vote for Poison. I'll also take this opportunity to note that Vulgard has mentioned Poison in exactly two posts so far. Both times, he has shaded her with his hedgerows and padded that read against two other reads on different players in the same post. Let's all act like the Rule of 3 is a rock solid scum tell now.

He caps the post by giving up on the Marmot post and acknowledging Enrique's existence for the first time to ask what his level of experience is. That could be staged. If it's not, then I think it's a very good look for Enrique. Presumably if these two had access to a private channel, Vulgard would have some familiarity with Enrique. But this would not be a particularly difficult thing to stage. I don't know if it is though. My general impression of Vulgard is that he was unable to get his feet under him in this game. Tacking on a random disassociating message for his partner at the end of a post like this would be a fairly composed move for a player in the position I'm projecting onto him here.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: We're at three "second votes being placed on someone" from vulgard now] aubergine

[VOTE:

And that matters... why? What do you think this means about my alignment? Or Alison's alignment, or Poison's?
This comment looks really random. Why does this matter to you?] aubergine

[VOTE: Welcome to Tonytown.] aubergine

[VOTE: @Sloonei Have you explained why you're voting Mac at any point?] aubergine

[VOTE: He asks me to talk about my vote for Mac. I hadn't done that. I never had any reason to be voting for Mac, I just left it there for a while to see if anything would come of it. This is question is all that there was. I essentially answered the question with a flat "No" and Vulgard never followed up. It doesn't tell me a whole lot. On one hand, he could be trying to get me to provide him with an avenue to vote for Mac. On the other, he could be asking me to make a case against his partner as an indirect distancing tactic. I have no particular reason to read this one way or the other. I think Mac is town outside of this moment.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Alright, great job.
Sloonei and nutella are pretty clearly town to me at this point. I did tell you that Sloonei was solvy in a non-bad-faith way, now you can probably see it.
Nutella dayvigged a mafia. Locktown, reevaluate maybe in LyLo but I doubt she lives that long if town.
More confident about TSP being town now as well.

I'll go into LC spew, too. A part of me doesn't like Mac being like "everyone but Syn and Vulgard is mafia based on LC spew" because that seems like a cop-out response and could possibly lead to chainyeets on town. It feels like he tried to push agenda immediately following his partner kicking the bucket.] aubergine

[VOTE: Vulgard's immediate response to LC getting hardcore f'd is to shade Mac. Good look for Dougall.

Big post of LC analysis which largely confirms reads I've already arrived at. I'll pull a few snippets that are relevant.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Interactions with Poison feel VERY W/W. Neither of them is really trying to suspect the other, nor are they trying to openly townread the other. When they interact, there is no attempt to solve each other that I can see. They talk about some previous games and about being happy to meet each other in this game. It's like they already know the other's alignment in their minds.] aubergine

[VOTE: This is the first negative stance he has taken in the post. I awarded Mac a town-lean in the previous post because I do not think Vulgard's immediate response to losing a partner mid-Day 1 would be to start bussing his other (assuming a 3-person mafia team because starting the game at 8 vs 4 in-thread is wacky). This point on Poison is slightly different because it's tucked into a much larger analytical post that Vulgard has more time to think about. But it still does give me pause that he's singling her out as a suspect in this instance. Not enough to undo the existing suspicion I have against her, but enough for me to stop and think for a moment. God knows I'm not thinking otherwise.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: More defending of Syn. Feels like whiteknighting, but I could see that being distancing. "Also, it's Syn's first game on the site, so it would be especially predatory for them to dive on together." Better look for Syn.

Defending Marmot as well. LC defends plenty of people I would say are "easy targets to push" in this game. I don't think he would whiteknight all of them as mafia. Looking primarily at Syn/Marmot here (sorry if me calling you that offends you).] aubergine

[VOTE: He works pretty hard to arrive at a slight suspicion on Marmot. This looks like he's trying to shade a low-hanging but not-overtly-suspicious town rodent.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Noting that LC slowly shifts into "scumreading Poison" after the threadflow goes in that direction, instead of progressing his read on her by himself. He doesn't really push Poison very hard, either. He did something similar with me earlier, and then he promptly forgot about me after the thread shifted away from me. Both these pushes were most likely in bad faith, and what differentiates the push on Poison from the push on me is that he didn't really try to solve Poison's alignment for over 10 pages, until he was forced to. For me, he instantly decided I'm mafia, then backtracked and... forgot about it?

It feels more like he slowly leaned into pushing on Poison when he really did not want to, meanwhile it came very easy for him to push on me before forgetting about me as a target. I think this says that Poison's pretty likely mafia.

I'm also noting the random shade on Mac at the end, but it's nowhere near enough to say that Mac's spewed town as a result.] aubergine

[VOTE: He continues to be committed to shading Poison. My point has not changed. Enough to give me pause, but not nearly enough to remove her as a suspect. This is coming too little too late. I don't think he's really in a position, if Poison is his teammate, to not suspect her here. He had already started to lay the groundwork for that read prior to LC's flip, and he's going to be able to see the agenda in all their interactions clearly, and he can also see the direction the thread is moving at this time. To suddenly do a 180 on Poison here could be a death sentence for each of them.
The shade on Mac comes across more softly. He has very little to say about it, but makes a point to leave Mac in the POE. It's a passing mention at best. My gut says he doesn't even bother to say so little if Mac is his partner. Either go big or go home there.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Conclusions:

Syn/Marmot might contain 1 mafia based on how LC decided to defend/WK both (and shade one).
Poison is very likely mafia, which aligns with my independent read on her. Kill Poison today.
Alison and Sloonei (and nutella) are certainly town based on LC spew and other factors. Pretty sure he spewed me town as well.
Interaction with TSP is very weird but doesn't really point me in either direction. Same with the Mac interaction.

Don't need to change my vote.] aubergine

[VOTE: Syn/Marmot contains 0 mafia.
Poison is indeed very likely mafia.
Agreed that Alison and nutella are cleared by LC's flip.
Interaction with TSP pretty clearly pointed to TSP being town, so I disagree there. I also don't remember being able to do much with Mac, but the fact that Vulgard is making a point to dangle his name as a suspect here feels good.
No clues as the the whereabouts of funnygurl and Enrique.] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Having done this, I find it really suspicious that Mac instantly went "LC spewed everyone but Syn and Vulgard town, let's kill Syn and Vulgard." Really feels like a bad-faith opportunistic push and I hate it.
I'd like to focus on Mac after we get Poison.] aubergine

[VOTE: I can very easily read this as "Once I've bussed my teammate, we should probably look at poor innocent MacDougall next."] aubergine

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Funnygurl still voting for No Yeet is unfortunately >rand town unless she does this stupid stuff as mafia too.] aubergine

[VOTE: A late funnygurl spotting. It almost comes out as a town-read, but he can't quite force himself to get all the way there.

----
Rainbow list based purely on these interactions, including the removed players:
nutella
Tony
funnygurl
Alison
Marmot
Mac
Enrique
Poison] aubergine

[VOTE:

printing this to read for homework] aubergine

[Funnygurl555]

she's caught man

[Poison]

I kinda feel bad for town!Sloonei, after all that assessment and his time on making the post, but in the end it is wrong. Would blame my playstyle for sure.

This is the second time you’ve made this post in this game.

Also my reasons for town reading Marmot and funnygurl are in that big post. I town-read Enrique for my other big post on this page.

Yea cause I feel superrr bad when i take my time write a long post and they flip town. Very frustrating.

[Poison]

she's caught man

[Funnygurl555]

i'm defs projecting more confidence in this read than i have, but... like that's textbook newb wolf talk, instilling paranoia in towns instead of offering an actual defense

[Funnygurl555]

poison's not a newb newb but i'm just saying that's one of the Big Mistakes of Newer Wolves

[Poison]

Sloonei, with your 'adjectives' judgement, how many times were you correct?

[Poison]

poison's not a newb newb but i'm just saying that's one of the Big Mistakes of Newer Wolves

[Funnygurl555]

alright so poison, you suspect me

why?

[Poison]

So here's the deal, you guys can lynch me at EoD, keep me aside and try to find the actual scum maybe, we still need something for the next day

[Funnygurl555]

So here's the deal, you guys can lynch me at EoD, keep me aside and try to find the actual scum maybe, we still need something for the next day

could you please talk about why you find me suspicious

[Poison]

alright so poison, you suspect me

why?

Because all you did this game was sheeping. And your voting pattern is not quite the towniest, if it is not your playstyle.

[Funnygurl555]

alright so poison, you suspect me

why?

Because all you did this game was sheeping. And your voting pattern is not quite the towniest, if it is not your playstyle.

when did i sheep?

[Poison]

I think I'm kinda here :
TSP
Marmot
Nutella

Enrique

Sloonei
Funnygurl

[Funnygurl555]

sloonei is lock town

actually though talk about your marmot read. that's spicy

[Poison]

alright so poison, you suspect me

why?

Because all you did this game was sheeping. And your voting pattern is not quite the towniest, if it is not your playstyle.

when did i sheep?

Well it seems like that, you have always talked and agreed with whatever is happening in the thread.

[Funnygurl555]

like i'm just saying if sloonei were scum someone woulda caught him by now

[Sloonei]

I think I'm kinda here :
TSP
Marmot
Nutella

Enrique

Sloonei
Funnygurl

Why am I not town?

[Poison]

sloonei is lock town

actually though talk about your marmot read. that's spicy

Tbh, I wonder about that, doing such a long assessment and being wrong idk tbh.

About my marmot read, it's not spicy, I have town read him from the beginning. He seems carefree, his reads are independent, he agrees/disagrees despite them being his town/wolf reads, a very towny thing in my opinion.

[Funnygurl555]

alright so poison, you suspect me

why?

Because all you did this game was sheeping. And your voting pattern is not quite the towniest, if it is not your playstyle.

when did i sheep?

Well it seems like that, you have always talked and agreed with whatever is happening in the thread.

i agree that you're scummy, yes, but what else have i done? i scum read vulgard and town read enrique. and both of those reads occurred before they were town consensus (the enrique read isn't even a consensus read let's be real now)

i have fewer than 50 posts and didn't vote last eod because i wasn't there.

the only time i've "sheeped" was with the read on you, and that just happened. i haven't had a history of sheeping this game.