tl;dr: SPF townreads Mac starting on Page 4, never gives a reason, not a single time, and it never wavers in the least. There are many w/w interactions between them. Mac looks like Mac wants to distance, but SPF is not doing a good job of showing critical thought on Mac. There is a small chance this is SPF/Mac w/t, but I think w/w powerwolfing is more likely here.
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So SPF has given me the heebee jeebees a few times, and Mac I think is playing like scum!Mac. SPF's most recent post where SPF said I was town for my case on Mac, and Mac questioned SPF's read on Mac, and SPF just said "I townread you" got my curious. I ISO'd SPF and ctrl+f'd the word "Mac". Here are the relevant posts I found, with my interpretations:
Spoiler: show
This is 4 pages in, SPF townreads Mac without having mentioned them before. No reason given. Nothing particularly sus about this at this time, but we'll see.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:14 am im not bored anymore though. i think bereft is town. i think porscha is town. i think mac is town. i think sig might be town. still figuring it out from there
Also kinda curious about the Bereft read. They didn't even register on my radar that early, will have to ISO their early game to see if I can actually make sense of a new player being townread that quickly.
Big post, read on Mac highlighted. Again, says Mac is town but does not give reasons. Why not elaborate here? It is a big enough post that I don't think SPF felt like they would be asked to elaborate.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:52 pm here's where i'm at rn. it's a bit more hedgy than i'd like but meh
if kate is mafia then alison is probably town because i dont think that the way kate reacted to alison’s push on her felt like W/W interaction. the same applies for roxy as well but i currently perceive kate as having a slightly higher chance of being mafia than roxy. as for alison herself, i dunno. i understand that some of her arguments are easy to perceive in bad faith (like the way she poked at roxy earlier in a way where it did kind of feel like she was trying to ~dunk~ on her more than anything), but i’ve also played enough with alison to know that this style of engagement isn’t alignment indicative
so in the absence of reasons to scumread alison, and because i think alison is unaligned with 2 other ppl who are kinda in my POE, i’m at the very least not willing to vote for alison today
i like that baub felt like he had kind of positioned himself to be able to push on seanzie but then ended up backing off of him anyway. i also think his push on jack has felt like it came fro ma place of conviction. i don’t know how to read baub at all but i think he’s fine s ofar
i thought the way that bereft pushed on me while revealing that he was secretly repping a townread on me while doing so was towny. i thought the way it felt like he was projecting his view of the game (ie: “i dont find the game boring but spf finds the game boring so t herefore spf be mafia) was towny too. i townlean him
i think that creature replied decently to my concerns about him, but i do still find it difficult to shake the feeling that he is being rather careless with the way he is posting reads and acting overly confident and haughty in a way that is uncharacteristic from pretty much every game ive seen for him
i think it bothers me for a few reasons:
-his focus is all off. creature has obsessed over reading mac and me correctly in every game iver played with him but here he is pushing more on the LHF and not really engaging with either of us much at all
-he just made a post that said: “This wagon is so bad we could prob nuke everyone in it” , and this is the exact type of attitude i struggle to believe that creature would have as town
honestly i m having trouble letting go of this read on creature because he keeps making posts that ping me even though i acknowledge i could be relying on meta too strongly or confirmation biasingm yself, but yeah
tbh i kind of like the fact that dennis went out of his way to limit himself for potential options to push (by saying he isnt willing to vote any of kate/neon/lucy/falcon very early into the game) but i’m kind of ambivalent about his posts beyond that
the readslist that wilgy posted on viewtopic.php?p=1002310#p1002310 didn’t really feel proportional to the solving he had done up to that point. i don’t really get anything alignment indicative out of the rest of the stuff he’s posted
i have no idea how to read falcon and im not going to pretend that i can
i think the way that fingersplints followed up my question about the alison/roxy dynamic was towny. i need to see her post more before i make up my mind on her alignment tho
i thought the way that jack dug in his heels and stubbornly continued to hard tunnel alison even after i questioned him/tried to talk him down felt like it came more from the perspective of a villager who felt convicted over their scumread and less from a wolf, since i think wolves are more likely to capitulate to pressure when they are being questioned on their reads like that, or at least say more hedgy stuff like “alison could be town but…”
tbh though i might be giving jack too much of a pass because at the end of the day i do think that his reasoning for scumread alison is kind of bad and im unconsciously operating under the assumption that he has a polarized wolfgame, which is kind of making me treat him with gids gloves. idk. i dont want this read to be as null at it is but there u go
i think that p#120 from kate was a wolfy post and came off a little bit self-conscious. i thought she responded to pressure somewhat awkwardly too. i don’t have any other thoughts
lucy is town
i think mac is probably town for reasons that ill explain if u really want me to
im mildly bothered by the way that neon has treated me in this game. she has consistently shaded me and implied that it was wolfy for me to think that the game was boring during the first few pages and has regularly downplayed townreads on me, but she has offered no commentary on my posts beyond that whatsoever and she seems barely interested in engaging with me/communicating with me at all
it reminds me of the sabi invitational game where she consistently treated me in bad faith when she was mafia and i let it slide because i thought she was tonally towny/she had conviction. she’s essentially treating me the same way here and i’ve had trouble getting past it. i don’t really care about her posts beyond that and ive barely paid attention to them
i think porsche is most likely town because i perceive her as being mildly polarized and the depth of analysis/thought that she has projected so far is proly town indicative for her, and because i think #760 in particular would be a difficult post for a wolf to write about themselves, particularly if they traditionally struggle with wolfing in general
holding off on my rondo read for reasons
i think it was mildly wolfy that roxy shifted her positioning toward kate a bit awkwardly when she was engaging with alison but i would be lying if i said if i thought that any of her posts were alignment indicative. i i get the sense that she’s the type of player that will project towniness better if she’s town if she is left alone and able to do her own thing, so im not really interested in adding to the pressure on her at the moment and i’d like to see how she plays when she isn’t being bombarded by the rest of the game
i thought it was towny that seanzie used his experience with my wolfgame as a foundation for his reado n me in this game. i’m kind of ambivalent about the rest of his posts but i proly wuldnt touch him today
sig had a towny opening but his vote on alison a little while ago was bad and felt opportunistic. i actually scumlean him now
one of my biggest concerns about tutu was actually that she was townreading me too easily and uncritically so the fact that she suddenly got super paranoid about me being mafia and revoked her townread felt towny. idk how to read he but i would also not touch her today for various reasons
SPF questions Neon about Mac, after Neon's response, SPF did not ever respond again.Neon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:08 amThat most recent post calling out half the player base for how they are playing when I think at least some of them are in their normal meta for onestaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:50 amcan you give me some examples of where you think mac specifically has done this?Neon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:47 am My strongest SR right now I think is Alison/Mac I just think they've been treating people poorly for bad reasons and are digging in their heels in a way that feels less like trying to solve the game and more like trying to make people look bad for things that aren't really that bad.
Another Mac townread without explanationstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:29 pmi townread mac, lucy, bereft, tutuu, you, and sig roughly in that order. i'm not willing to vote for alison today even though i'm not sure about her alignmentBaudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:04 pmI would guess you are probably correct.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:57 pmi perceive the pool of creature/splints/falcon/sig as being likely to contain at least 2 wolvesSeanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:55 pmWhat wagon(s) would you prefer instead?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:50 pm ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there
i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm
I would say of the people casing/pushing me, Rondo is almost certainly town; Seanzie feels genuine; Falcon seems extremely sus. Bereft feels pure and his casing of Falcon was solid work.
Splints/sig/wilgy are flying utr.
Roxy seems rand to me; I think the pushback on Alison is likely at least partially wolf-driven though that doesn't mean much for Roxy's alignment imo.
Pretty tough to yeet mafia in this game state with 5 living so if you want to move to another wagon please @me, i'm out of posts. Who else do you trust?
i had fingersplints as a light townlean but she just hopped on alison in a way that extremely rubs me the wrong way
rest of the game feels kind of inscrutable to me rn
Another Mac townread without explanation.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:58 pm mac
lucy
tutuu
dennis
bereft
rondo
baud
my current townreads in the exact order that i townread them. i think there is one mafia maximum in this pool
im capped now so gl gl
possibly w/w theatre. Where did this go?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pmno, it was a bad decision but i dont care to debate it
possibly w/w theatre. Weak w/w read though. Definitely w/w compatible, maybe not w/w indicative.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:38 pmslay queenMacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pmShit I need to bus someone. Um, ah. Fuck um.
[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:36 pmyour perception of the gamestate is very different from mine if you think that but okayMacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:34 pmit's blatantly untrue that town can't win unless all 3 are mafia and there's no reason to feel that way much less say itstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:33 pmwhyMacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:31 pmthis is nonsensestaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:06 pm if creature roxy sig and jack contains more than one villager then this game is probably a loss
SPF loves talking about their Mac townread. Also Bereft really fits the idea of SPF trying to hard powerwolf. As others have mentioned, Bereft clearly is not a newbie, and with almost nothing else known about them, I have a hard time thinking people are going to towncore them this hard. I need to give them a careful lookover before I really commit to this idea, so this is more spitballing than confident thought, but right now, SPF powerwolfing with Mac and Bereft is on my mind. For those who said Bereft wouldn't need to do what they've done as a wolf and could just slank since they're new, I mean... aren't they kinda doing that, just not completely and outrightly playing bad? I know the few times I've wolfed on my first time on a new sight, I've come off as a quiet but insightful townie.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:51 am mine are mac, lucy, and bereft. if lucy doesn't count, then i would add tutuu.
Again no explanation of the town!Mac read here. This one I REALLY don't like, because the question isn't "Do you townread me?", it's "why isn't Sean correct", and SPF responded by NOT saying WHY they townread Mac, just that they townread Mac. "why isn't Sean correct" in this context is asking "WHY do you townread Mac". Bad. Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad BAD.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:44 pmbecause i do not think you are mafia even if there exists a theoretical world in which you are playing significantly townier than every wolfgame i have seen from ouMacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:28 amand why is he not just correct?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:56 am cant sleep and wanted to share the stray thought that out of all the people who have pushed/shaded mac, seanzie is the towniest of them. his read on mac has a level of specificity (ie: him comparing mac to his wolfgame in GoC, him accusing mac of trying to destroy his WIM, him accusing mac of sharing responsibility for the alison wagon) that make me think he is putting real thought into mac's alignment, and the way he has kind of dug in his heels on his mac read upon being pressured makes me think that the conviction behind his real is real
i think a world where seanzie is a wolf pushing on mac only really makes sense to me if the rest of his team is cornered and he doesn't have many other viable options, but even in that world, i would expect seanzie to be a little bit more strategic about the way that he's pushing mac instead of just loudly insisting he's mafia in the most brazen way possible
i have no idea what seanzie's wolf meta is like so im open to other thoughts but yeah
btw porscha is lock town now
I'd really like some input on this. The game does not feel like it is a bunch of polarized people and slankers wolfing. I think with 5 wolves in a 20 person setup, powerwolfing makes sense. Please someone talk to me.
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After going through and commenting on all the posts in the above spoiler, a new line of thinking came to me, included below. Spoilered because I am not super confident about it and it is not fully fleshed out and I don't want it to detract from what I have above about Mac/SPF (even though some if it leaked into the thoughts about the posts I've quoted)
Spoiler: show
Bereft fits perfectly into a Mac/SPF powerwolfing team, at least based on these posts and what I can remember off the top of my head from Bereft's play. I'mma go ISO them