Cartomancy [Game Over]

[Bereft]

None of your posts disassociate you with Sig or Creature and if its so obvious then point it out to me because it would be a huge help.

[DrWilgy]

I have quite literally just been wanting Sig/Creature to go over today on the concept 1. most likely wolf. 2. They help me find Tutuu on flip.

Have my posts really been that hard to decipher?

[Bereft]

Sir, bussing exists.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[DrWilgy]

Sir, bussing exists.

kk, and what indicates that this is a bus?

What part of me even pushing for creature yesterday indicates that it's a bus? You can't just call something a bus without actually doing the legwork to provide reason. If it was as easy as that town cred wouldn't be a concept.

[DrWilgy]

@MacDougall, I do not wish to add to your distress about this game by pointing out what I did.

You are either burnt town, which I can understand makes it more difficult, OR you are AtEfull wolf. The way you are treating my slot can be reflective of either, and I'd love to argue worldviews that help us find scum.

[DrWilgy]

Sir, bussing exists.

kk, and what indicates that this is a bus?

What part of me even pushing for creature yesterday indicates that it's a bus? You can't just call something a bus without actually doing the legwork to provide reason. If it was as easy as that town cred wouldn't be a concept.

Like, it's this shorthand non-response that lacks meaning that immediately wants me to go back to putting you in a wolf lean. I still think our worldviews are similar though so this gut reaction may be wrong.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@staypositivefriend what do you think of this solve?

tutuu
sabi
wilgy
sig
creature

This is my gth solve.

@MacDougall should I wait for SPF to chime in prior to responding to this one?

Go for it.

kk, so for both you and @Jackofhearts2005 how in the hell am I aligned with both sig and creature? Seems lazy.

The argument goes like this.

Tutuu has a wolf pov. Creature is not doing anything town Creature would do. Wolves.

Sabi’s evaluation of my evaluation of Tutuu was the most noncommittal wolfy nonsense. Wolf.

Wilgy using bad arguments to say Sig/Tutuu are not both wolves. Ergo, Wilgy and Sig also wolves.

Am I certain it’s Tutuu/Wilgy/Creature/Sabi/Sig? No.
Is that my best guess at this moment? Yes.
A townie incorrectly put in that solve can and should try to make their way out of it.

[Bereft]

Sir, bussing exists.

kk, and what indicates that this is a bus?

What part of me even pushing for creature yesterday indicates that it's a bus? You can't just call something a bus without actually doing the legwork to provide reason. If it was as easy as that town cred wouldn't be a concept.

Sir, if you're not going to justify that its not a bus, then anyone is free to consider that you and creature is a possible world, and they may even justify that its a likely world by saying POE there's no other wolves for you to not buss anyway.

Your entire argument is just barely restrained OMGuS rn. If you really believe Sig/tutuu is non w/w then get me to 5 wolves please. Show me how you're going to achieve this.

I don't care about any disassociations unless I'm >90 percent confident on them otherwise there's no point for me in worldbuilding.

[DrWilgy]

@staypositivefriend what do you think of this solve?

tutuu
sabi
wilgy
sig
creature

This is my gth solve.

@MacDougall should I wait for SPF to chime in prior to responding to this one?

Go for it.

kk, so for both you and @Jackofhearts2005 how in the hell am I aligned with both sig and creature? Seems lazy.

The argument goes like this.

Tutuu has a wolf pov. Creature is not doing anything town Creature would do. Wolves.

Sabi’s evaluation of my evaluation of Tutuu was the most noncommittal wolfy nonsense. Wolf.

Wilgy using bad arguments to say Sig/Tutuu are not both wolves. Ergo, Wilgy and Sig also wolves.

Am I certain it’s Tutuu/Wilgy/Creature/Sabi/Sig? No.
Is that my best guess at this moment? Yes.
A townie incorrectly put in that solve can and should try to make their way out of it.

Idk about Tutuu being a wolf PoV. I understand your perspective on it, but I don't fully agree to the read.

I agree with the Creature read.

Sabi I still think has town merit for Kate's posting, but at this point I do not desire to bring Sabi into lylo.

How are my arguments bad? I don't this Sig would feel the need to place a vote on a teammate where 1. it's not needed, 2. unlikely to give them any credit. It doesn't make sense for Sig, in the moment of the vote, given the context, to bind themselves to a Tutuu vote.

Tutuu, isn't going to place their teammate in the 2nd slot of their PoE if that slot is not heated. Tutuu would take the bus VERY hard or not at all.

[Creature]

I have quite literally just been wanting Sig/Creature to go over today on the concept 1. most likely wolf. 2. They help me find Tutuu on flip.

Have my posts really been that hard to decipher?

Good chances lynching me and sig will show you all the wolves

[Creature]

I can't figure out who is most likely wolf and I'm afraid it's too late

[Creature]

Hail Mary

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[Creature]

I have quite literally just been wanting Sig/Creature to go over today on the concept 1. most likely wolf. 2. They help me find Tutuu on flip.

Have my posts really been that hard to decipher?

Watch this be all town

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[Bereft]

How in the flying saucers are you Sig and tutuu all town.

Explain to me.
Explain.

No it literally does not make sense.
Here let me give you a sample of this world.

So first we assume Jack is scum. Then lets add Sabi.
Then mmm, well ooh how about Dennis.
Then okay so we need at least one in Seanzie and SPF, and then ooh one in Falcon and Porscha.

IDK abt you guys but Im not getting to Jack/Sabi/Seanzie/Falcon worlds.

[Bereft]

Oh I forgot Wilgy, makes it easier.

[DrWilgy]

Sir, bussing exists.

kk, and what indicates that this is a bus?

What part of me even pushing for creature yesterday indicates that it's a bus? You can't just call something a bus without actually doing the legwork to provide reason. If it was as easy as that town cred wouldn't be a concept.

Sir, if you're not going to justify that its not a bus, then anyone is free to consider that you and creature is a possible world, and they may even justify that its a likely world by saying POE there's no other wolves for you to not buss anyway.

Your entire argument is just barely restrained OMGuS rn. If you really believe Sig/tutuu is non w/w then get me to 5 wolves please. Show me how you're going to achieve this.

I don't care about any disassociations unless I'm >90 percent confident on them otherwise there's no point for me in worldbuilding.

I think there's more than enough chains of thinking to build associative reads. I'm almost impressed by the lack of dif check and policy arguments this day cycle.

how am I, to justify what is and isn't a bus, of my OWN thinking. That doesn't even make sense? Should I link you to my ISO?

Restrained omgus yes, but also you keep doing things that I feel are inherently anti-town when building your read on me.

Sig w world:
Sig
Creature
Porscha
Bereft/Jack
SPF/Seanzie

The wolf team for Tutuu is alot more fickle which is why I think to solve in Sig/Creature land:

Tutuu w world:
Tutuu
Seanzie/Mac
Porscha?
Sabi
Creature/SPF?

Simply put, I'd need to be wrong on my Sabi read and potentially wrong in Seanzie/Mac for Tutuu to be a thing. Hell, Mac probably doesn't make sense because of the events of last cycle, but I'd need to reassess the gamestate upon Tutuu flipping W.

[Bereft]

Jack/Sabi/Wilgy/Dennis/Falcon

[Seanzie]

Jack/Sabi/Wilgy/Dennis/Falcon

Not Falcon.

[Seanzie]

Creature, SPF, Mac, Bereft, Seanzie, Falcon, Lucy

Leaving

Tutuu, Jack, Wilgy, Sig, Porscha, Sabi, Dennis

[Seanzie]

Which one name should I remove from that bottom list?

[DrWilgy]

How in the flying saucers are you Sig and tutuu all town.

Explain to me.
Explain.

No it literally does not make sense.
Here let me give you a sample of this world.

So first we assume Jack is scum. Then lets add Sabi.
Then mmm, well ooh how about Dennis.
Then okay so we need at least one in Seanzie and SPF, and then ooh one in Falcon and Porscha.

IDK abt you guys but Im not getting to Jack/Sabi/Seanzie/Falcon worlds.

I don't think that Sig and Tutuu are both town though?

I don't think this world can exist in this gamestate.

Tutuu being town would open Jack wolf more I agree. Sabi can effectively fit in most slots if I'm wrong about the Kate spew (and this is a concerning thought).

I really don't think Falcon makes sense as W still.

[Bereft]

Which one name should I remove from that bottom list?

Porscha every day of the week.

[Seanzie]

Which one name should I remove from that bottom list?

Porscha every day of the week.

Why?

[Bereft]

How in the flying saucers are you Sig and tutuu all town.

Explain to me.
Explain.

No it literally does not make sense.
Here let me give you a sample of this world.

So first we assume Jack is scum. Then lets add Sabi.
Then mmm, well ooh how about Dennis.
Then okay so we need at least one in Seanzie and SPF, and then ooh one in Falcon and Porscha.

IDK abt you guys but Im not getting to Jack/Sabi/Seanzie/Falcon worlds.

I don't think that Sig and Tutuu are both town though?

I don't think this world can exist in this gamestate.

Tutuu being town would open Jack wolf more I agree. Sabi can effectively fit in most slots if I'm wrong about the Kate spew (and this is a concerning thought).

I really don't think Falcon makes sense as W still.

Was responding to Creature.

But yes my advice to all members of the POE is to get real and construct some teams. Because its not realistic to townread half the POE for laughs.

[MacDougall]

@staypositivefriend what do you think of this solve?

tutuu
sabi
wilgy
sig
creature

This is my gth solve.

@MacDougall should I wait for SPF to chime in prior to responding to this one?

Go for it.

kk, so for both you and @Jackofhearts2005 how in the hell am I aligned with both sig and creature? Seems lazy.

Instead of making me figure out why I'm supposed to disassociate you why don't you give me the evidence to the contrary in an accessible format instead of just being snarky over some micro interaction I might have missed?

Literally read what I've posted today. How can I be your top scum read if you can't even do that?

I clearly have done that. Your arguments have been repeatedly of this nature. Just posturing bad faith. Since day 0.

You don't have to be with those 2 players to be mafia. You're not a scumread of mine because they are.

[MacDougall]

@staypositivefriend what do you think of this solve?

tutuu
sabi
wilgy
sig
creature

This is my gth solve.

@MacDougall should I wait for SPF to chime in prior to responding to this one?

Go for it.

kk, so for both you and @Jackofhearts2005 how in the hell am I aligned with both sig and creature? Seems lazy.

The argument goes like this.

Tutuu has a wolf pov. Creature is not doing anything town Creature would do. Wolves.

Sabi’s evaluation of my evaluation of Tutuu was the most noncommittal wolfy nonsense. Wolf.

Wilgy using bad arguments to say Sig/Tutuu are not both wolves. Ergo, Wilgy and Sig also wolves.

Am I certain it’s Tutuu/Wilgy/Creature/Sabi/Sig? No.
Is that my best guess at this moment? Yes.
A townie incorrectly put in that solve can and should try to make their way out of it.

Jack is now locktown thank fuck that someone is.

[Creature]

How in the flying saucers are you Sig and tutuu all town.

Explain to me.
Explain.

If we are wolves then what the fuck are we doing? What's our plan?

Someone pointed the way sig handled Roxy yesterday was unlikely to come from wolf yesterday as it would make them look too bad.

I confess I started the day suspecting tutuu but lately tutuu reeked to me as someone fighting off the so far wolfsided status quo.

Perhaps I am missing something and maybe tutuu is just fucking with me but I know this following level zero reads ain't working so far.

[Bereft]

Which one name should I remove from that bottom list?

Porscha every day of the week.

Why?

I've found that their persepctive of the game was very agreeable and made alot of sense. Think this is just wellthought Porscha, I like their articulation of feelings on you and Mac and SPF. Even think the whole catching up thing is a minor point in their favor.

[Creature]

Jack/Sabi/Wilgy/Dennis/Falcon

Is that your town list or wolf list?

[Seanzie]

Which one name should I remove from that bottom list?

Porscha every day of the week.

Why?

I've found that their persepctive of the game was very agreeable and made alot of sense. Think this is just wellthought Porscha, I like their articulation of feelings on you and Mac and SPF. Even think the whole catching up thing is a minor point in their favor.

Can you quote a few posts from their ISO that gave you this impression?

[Bereft]

How in the flying saucers are you Sig and tutuu all town.

Explain to me.
Explain.

If we are wolves then what the fuck are we doing? What's our plan?

Someone pointed the way sig handled Roxy yesterday was unlikely to come from wolf yesterday as it would make them look too bad.

I confess I started the day suspecting tutuu but lately tutuu reeked to me as someone fighting off the so far wolfsided status quo.

Perhaps I am missing something and maybe tutuu is just fucking with me but I know this following level zero reads ain't working so far.

Tutuu posted a crappy solve that was literally head empty, lets torch all of the towniest posters except Mac, that doesn't do anything.
SPF pointed the thing about sig I think, and I don't believe it. I think Sig has adopted positions that fit what I think a certain type of wolf does in this situation if that makes any sense. I don't think this particular TWTBAW holds any merit.

[DrWilgy]

This is my gth solve.

@MacDougall should I wait for SPF to chime in prior to responding to this one?

Go for it.

kk, so for both you and @Jackofhearts2005 how in the hell am I aligned with both sig and creature? Seems lazy.

Instead of making me figure out why I'm supposed to disassociate you why don't you give me the evidence to the contrary in an accessible format instead of just being snarky over some micro interaction I might have missed?

Literally read what I've posted today. How can I be your top scum read if you can't even do that?

I clearly have done that. Your arguments have been repeatedly of this nature. Just posturing bad faith. Since day 0.

You don't have to be with those 2 players to be mafia. You're not a scumread of mine because they are.

How so? I think a player to have read me today would realize I can't be aligned with Sig/Creature. Yes, because I find that arguments for me being wolf are for the most part bad OR they are a gut read that for some reason no one will just call a gut read. Summarizing my play this game as entirely bad faith posturing is also weak, I openly invite you to contest my world views and you don't.

Ok, so, instead of calling it a solve, call it a PoE? A solve would indicate you believe that to be the team of 5, but your team of 5 has what I think to be clear contradictions.

[Creature]

Creature, SPF, Mac, Bereft, Seanzie, Falcon, Lucy

Leaving

Tutuu, Jack, Wilgy, Sig, Porscha, Sabi, Dennis

What made you change on SPF/Mac/Bereft?

[Bereft]

Jack/Sabi/Wilgy/Dennis/Falcon

Is that your town list or wolf list?

This was a hypothetical wolf list where I entertained you being town and having a good perspective of the game and making a world out of it.

[Seanzie]

Creature, SPF, Mac, Bereft, Seanzie, Falcon, Lucy

Leaving

Tutuu, Jack, Wilgy, Sig, Porscha, Sabi, Dennis

What made you change on SPF/Mac/Bereft?

It is an exercise.

[MacDougall]

I can't figure out who is most likely wolf and I'm afraid it's too late

Hail Mary

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Hail Mary?

There's 24 hours left in this day.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall should I wait for SPF to chime in prior to responding to this one?

Go for it.

kk, so for both you and @Jackofhearts2005 how in the hell am I aligned with both sig and creature? Seems lazy.

Instead of making me figure out why I'm supposed to disassociate you why don't you give me the evidence to the contrary in an accessible format instead of just being snarky over some micro interaction I might have missed?

Literally read what I've posted today. How can I be your top scum read if you can't even do that?

I clearly have done that. Your arguments have been repeatedly of this nature. Just posturing bad faith. Since day 0.

You don't have to be with those 2 players to be mafia. You're not a scumread of mine because they are.

How so? I think a player to have read me today would realize I can't be aligned with Sig/Creature. Yes, because I find that arguments for me being wolf are for the most part bad OR they are a gut read that for some reason no one will just call a gut read. Summarizing my play this game as entirely bad faith posturing is also weak, I openly invite you to contest my world views and you don't.

Ok, so, instead of calling it a solve, call it a PoE? A solve would indicate you believe that to be the team of 5, but your team of 5 has what I think to be clear contradictions.

Errr ok call it a POE then.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[Bereft]

► Show Spoiler

also spf I think I can say with some confidence that sean is town here. i've played with evil sean once and I was able to see through it
sean this game has been able to very like... be direct in his 1 on 1s with people. when he wolfed I saw a lot more deflection. I don't think you should be open to other thoughts on it today at the very very least

B. If you hadn't noticed I have Creature as solid town, falcon as lean town, and Porscha as town, and Mac/SPF may have some deviations here but none of us are put bulldozing these players.
C. Actually I simply think town got off to a horrible start D1. I say this from the simple fact of the Baudib's wagon existence. I know you don't agree that Baudib was obvious town but as far as I'm concerned there was at minimum some number of town pursuing things that I would label inadvisable and there were definitely tensions that grew from the fact that Alison/Mac/Lucy/Baudib were telling people to "shut up and stop doing stupid things because we said so", and so these people never got around the fact that they think Mac's controlling the game in an evil direction simply from the fact he told them to stop wagoning their pet scumreads. That's a very nice story and all, but my point is that I don't actually current think you need that much control over the game to get a successful Moon use to cause an Alison chop. The recipe was right there, in D1, no one trusted Alison, and you want to know who pushed Alison and added to the boiling pot? Spoiler alert, its some of the people I'm suspecting.

The obvious counterargument is "but what about Mac's D2, he told everyone to vote for Alison for however long" to which I will simply state that I understand the concern but actually here's how to read Mac, so we segue into:

A. The first point about reading Mac, is that you can get a good idea just entirely based on Mac's stated reads, not their accuracy, but his stated explanations and read development. Mac's great at spinning BS and bussing, but the point is that he's not great at faking reasonable reads or for that matter reevaluating. I'm not going to bother explaining why I think Mac's D1 reads are reasonable since you obviously don't think they are and I will only come off as even more a snob. However, Mac's ... breakdown D2 is as far as I'm concerned a v!Mac. Do you think w!Mac bothers faking vulnerability? Not well, not in any way thats grounded. He stated clearly why he suddenly pivoted onto Alison, and thats because of a breakdown in confidence of worldview. Why was there a breadown in confidence of worldview? Because certain of his scumreads were showing town entitlement, these were Falcon and (Dr.Wilgy? I cant remember and I might be biased) and he had never expressed townreading Alison that confidently. Then he switches to actually I change my mind, I haven't a clue, and actually don't kill Alison. This is a massive amount of flexibility and whether you like it or not, its not easy to pull of convincingly as wolf, nor does it give him any benefit of wolf when everyone will be going "bro wtf was that". I am not going to talk about Mac's D3 and attempt to justify that its genuine frustration on Mac's part, but that is what I think.

In any case, it is much easier for me to say "oh I townread Mac", because I can follow basically all of his stated thought processes while others have not.

X. I strongly believe in my own ability to read Mac to speculate on the w/w nature of the interactions you cited. Besides the fact that I think most preflip claimed w/w interactions are in general weak, I do think SPF could have come to a similar assessment as I have, and this is just based on SPF being a stronger player and they've already echoed my general thrust that the reason Mac is town is that "actually Mac is polarized". And lastly, the point where Mac doubles around and asks SPF "so why don't you scumread me" is emblematic of Mac's townplay in that he will ask pointed questions out of the blue to the people he townreads for paranoia reasons. Theoretically SPF can be a wolf in all of this but these are not interactions w/w with Mac. Mac as a wolf would've likely theatred more with SPF as a partner, this interaction is pretty tame.




Why did I do this to myself.

yuuuuuge mindmeld on this and I appreciate how you analyzed spf in it too since I always feel in the dark on her. I think at worst it's w/t with spf as the wolf but maybe I was too worried about my inability to read her that I moved her down due to The Fear. i'm still pensive on her but your read gives me more confidence to do this

im at this now

creature, sig, bereft, dennis, falcon

weren't you sr'ing jack before?

[Bereft]

How do spoilers work. Augh

[MacDougall]

So the end of day 2 wagon is interesting.

Roxy 4: Creature, Baudib1, Alison, Lucy

What chance of this wagon being pure pure given the context?

I wouldn't imagine that the entire mafia team stacks Alison.

There's already two dead town and the other is Oracle.

I think this just outs Creature?

[MacDougall]

fingersplints: 8
Alison
Baudib1
Bereft
lucy
MacDougall
RondoDimBuckle
staypositivefriend
tutuu

Alison: 6
falcon45ca
fingersplints
Jackofhearts2005
Neon
Roxy
sig

Baudib1: 2
DrWilgy
Seanzie

Roxy:
Creature
Dennis

Dennis : 1
Kate

Missed the Vote: 1
Porscha

@Seanzie your vote here is miscounted right? You said you ended on Alison not Baudib1?

[MacDougall]

Current VC halfway through d4

Bereft
1
6%
Voters: tutuu
Creature
4
24%
Voters: Jackofhearts2005, MacDougall, staypositivefriend, DrWilgy
Dennis
0
No votes
Voters: None
DrWilgy
2
12%
Voters: Seanzie, Creature
falcon45ca
0
No votes
Voters: None
Jackofhearts2005
1
6%
Voters: Sabiplz
lucy
0
No votes
Voters: None
MacDougall
0
No votes
Voters: None
Porscha
0
No votes
Voters: None
Sabiplz
0
No votes
Voters: None
Seanzie
0
No votes
Voters: None
sig
1
6%
Voters: Bereft
staypositivefriend
1
6%
Voters: falcon45ca
tutuu
2
12%
Voters: Dennis, sig
Jerry Falwell Jr. (Host/MoD/NP/Dead)
5
29%
Voters: Neon, RondoDimBuckle, Kate, S~V~S, Spacedaisy

[MacDougall]

So in the day 1 tvt

Wilgy
Creature
Dennis
Kate

abstained from participating.

Always multiple mafia off wagon in the context. Further evidence for the POE.

[MacDougall]

fingersplints: 8
Alison t
Baudib1 t
Bereft
lucy t
MacDougall t
RondoDimBuckle t
staypositivefriend
tutuu

FS wagon is very pure. There's literally no more than 1 wolf here imo and maybe 0. Wolves didn't flock to this wagon when I created it clearly. If there's a wolf voting here it's purely for optics cuz killing Alison was the desired outcome for the mafia imo.

Alison: 7
falcon45ca
fingersplints t
Jackofhearts2005
Neon t
Roxy t
sig
Seanzie

3 town here so far as well.

Jack is probably ok for the vote. Seanzie is probably playing career best wolfgame if he is. Leaves just sig and Falcon on it.

Sig
Falcon
Wilgy
Creature
Dennis
Kate/Sabi

imo contains 4-5 mafia. Falcon would be the most likely town here imo.

[MacDougall]

Given the nature of that POE the only FS voter that can exist in that world is tutuu. Bereft maybe. I'm happy to proclaim there's always at least one mafia between them honestly. Which means 4 not 5 in the above. Maybe 3 if Tutuu started pushing Bereft to distance.

It's possible that Tutuu's agenda today has been antispew and Bereft and Dennis are Tutuu partners she's trying to spew town given how in the cross-hairs Tutuu has been today.

[MacDougall]

I think in Tutuu town worlds Bereft always mafia.
In Tutuu maf worlds we only lose to a Bereft distancing play?

@staypositivefriend @Jackofhearts2005 what are your feelings towards the idea Tutuu might be trying to spew Bereft town?

[Sabiplz]

Yall can vote me idc.