Cartomancy [Game Over]

[Sabiplz]

Busy at work but will be around for eod

[Bereft]

I gave up on the Creature/Read ISOs idea. See you all later.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@MacDougall @DrWilgy @Sabiplz @Bereft

Sig is in my solve. However, he's far far far behind Creature and Tutuu in terms of wolfiness. Both Creature and Tutuu have a pov that is damn near impossible for a townie to have at this stage in the game. Creature is clearly coasting. SPF cased Creature as outside of his town meta and wolves ignored it D1. It is D4 and he has coasted through every single day when he could have been yeeted and yet he has not lost any morale or done any work. He's a wolf every time. Tutuu is pushing an absolute garbage POE and has turned on townreads like SPF, Dennis and myself almost purely in self defense. She does not really believe those reads. She has also treated these slots with the mocking tone of a wolf on D4 who has a full team. Practically putting her thumbs in her ears and sticking her tongue out at us. It is not the mindset of a townie on the verge of a loss and she is also a wolf every time. Sig is likely to be a wolf by POE but the case on him is flimsy to the point of nonexistence next to how obviously both Tutuu and Creature are wolves. Tutuu is voting for Sig. We're potentially 1 misyeet away from a loss. I think it's important to yeet Creature or Tutuu today.

I think that also means consolidating on Creature or Tutuu @staypositivefriend @falcon45ca @Seanzie @Dennis. I don't particularly care which, though I think Creature is unlikely to be the Zealot on account of wolves would be perfectly happy "yeeting" the Zealot but they've never managed or even made much of an attempt to "bus" Creature. Tutuu received strong pressure for the first time today and probably has a standard 1/5 chance of being the Zealot (or 1/4 if you assume Creature is never the Zealot).

So I think we should consolidate on Creature but if we'd prefer to consolidate on Tutuu, I'm fine with that, too. I think yeeting Sig today would be a mistake.

[Dennis]

Wow there has been like nothing said that is really weird

Tutuu - I am sorry you lost interest in the game

Wilgy - I didn't wanna quote it because I'm on phone, but it your massive post you say something about Creature being in antispew I think? But the post you quoted had a bunch of content no? Hold on I'll go quote it I guess

Bereft - I'm with you on this one I have no idea how there has been this little posts. I showed up around midnight, then went to bed and now I'm in school and there's like 20 new posts which is giving wild ??? what is happening vibes. Does this say anything about the gamestate? No clue idk how to read gamestate but I imagine maybe wolves think they're in the clear

[Dennis]

I should prob stay away from this game.

I veto the tutuu wagon.

I prob won't oppose the sig wagon as much.

I'm doing Dennis mostly for tutuu and because I agree that he seems to be left off the hook too easily.

I'll give Sabi space for now.

Also I would like to know where you all stand on falcon.

@DrWilgy you said to this:

Are you finally flailing? idk, probably biased but seems like anti-spew to me boss. I don't find any reason behind the content you've been flinging at the wall this cycle now that the heat is up. That doesn't feel good.

Is this really antispew? OH WAIT THE FIRST SENTENCE im blind and illiterate don't mind me

I was like 'this is a bunch of like final thoughts before signing off??' But no I see the first sentence now, carry on

[Jackofhearts2005]

Also, the chance of both Sabi and Wilgy being town is pretty freaking low so both of them on Sig with Tutuu is another red flag. Sorry to any townies in Sabi and Wilgy but it is what it is.

[Sabiplz]

Also, the chance of both Sabi and Wilgy being town is pretty freaking low so both of them on Sig with Tutuu is another red flag. Sorry to any townies in Sabi and Wilgy but it is what it is.

Did you not see I was sheeping Mac on to sig way before wiggles and tutuu joined.

What kinda read is this???

[Sabiplz]

Sig/Jack is a possibility since Jack is trying to divert from that wagon.

Would it be that blatant? Idk maybe

[Sabiplz]

A wolf pelt is a wolf pelt and the fact that Jack even says that sig is in his poe but wants to kill the wagon is odd.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Also, the chance of both Sabi and Wilgy being town is pretty freaking low so both of them on Sig with Tutuu is another red flag. Sorry to any townies in Sabi and Wilgy but it is what it is.

Did you not see I was sheeping Mac on to sig way before wiggles and tutuu joined.

What kinda read is this???

It's a read where it's lylo and there are two obvious wolves with 3 votes each and there's a player in the POE who could be a wolf or could be town with 5 votes and POE players going "Oh, well I'm just sheeping towncore when I don't vote for either of the obvious wolves."

That would freak you the fuck out in my shoes. Don't act like you think this is some wolf plot because the motivation and reasoning behind what I'm saying and doing is clear as can be.







We're almost surely gonna have to deal with the lost day phase to yeeting the Zealot sooner or later but eliminating wolves maintains a bit of margin of error on voting and causes the wolves to draw less cards at night. There are like 5 cards that could potentially mean the difference between a win and a loss depending on who draws them so eliminating a wolf now would be worth shifting the odds.

@Porscha @lucy Creature is always a wolf and never the zealot. Please vote there or at the very least, both vote Tutuu.

[Jackofhearts2005]

A wolf pelt is a wolf pelt and the fact that Jack even says that sig is in his poe but wants to kill the wagon is odd.

Jack: We should yeet players that are definately wolves instead of players that are just in the POE.

Sabi: OMG maybe Jack is a wolf. So odd. Such a weird perspective.

[Dennis]

@MacDougall @DrWilgy @Sabiplz @Bereft

Sig is in my solve. However, he's far far far behind Creature and Tutuu in terms of wolfiness. Both Creature and Tutuu have a pov that is damn near impossible for a townie to have at this stage in the game. Creature is clearly coasting. SPF cased Creature as outside of his town meta and wolves ignored it D1. It is D4 and he has coasted through every single day when he could have been yeeted and yet he has not lost any morale or done any work. He's a wolf every time. Tutuu is pushing an absolute garbage POE and has turned on townreads like SPF, Dennis and myself almost purely in self defense. She does not really believe those reads. She has also treated these slots with the mocking tone of a wolf on D4 who has a full team. Practically putting her thumbs in her ears and sticking her tongue out at us. It is not the mindset of a townie on the verge of a loss and she is also a wolf every time. Sig is likely to be a wolf by POE but the case on him is flimsy to the point of nonexistence next to how obviously both Tutuu and Creature are wolves. Tutuu is voting for Sig. We're potentially 1 misyeet away from a loss. I think it's important to yeet Creature or Tutuu today.

I think that also means consolidating on Creature or Tutuu @staypositivefriend @falcon45ca @Seanzie @Dennis. I don't particularly care which, though I think Creature is unlikely to be the Zealot on account of wolves would be perfectly happy "yeeting" the Zealot but they've never managed or even made much of an attempt to "bus" Creature. Tutuu received strong pressure for the first time today and probably has a standard 1/5 chance of being the Zealot (or 1/4 if you assume Creature is never the Zealot).

So I think we should consolidate on Creature but if we'd prefer to consolidate on Tutuu, I'm fine with that, too. I think yeeting Sig today would be a mistake.

Okay ur in the towncore now welcome. There's donuts and drinks over there

This is like exactly my thoughts too. But let's be a wee bit kinder please

Can you please explain the case to me because I will live in ignorance NO LONGER

I'm very much more for staying on Tutuu, but admittedly it might be because she was pushing me pretty hard and my defensive mechanisms kicked in so

[Sabiplz]

A wolf pelt is a wolf pelt and the fact that Jack even says that sig is in his poe but wants to kill the wagon is odd.

Jack: We should yeet players that are definately wolves instead of players that are just in the POE.

Sabi: OMG maybe Jack is a wolf. So odd. Such a weird perspective.

You literally said he's in your solve, no?

[Sabiplz]

Also, the chance of both Sabi and Wilgy being town is pretty freaking low so both of them on Sig with Tutuu is another red flag. Sorry to any townies in Sabi and Wilgy but it is what it is.

Did you not see I was sheeping Mac on to sig way before wiggles and tutuu joined.

What kinda read is this???

It's a read where it's lylo and there are two obvious wolves with 3 votes each and there's a player in the POE who could be a wolf or could be town with 5 votes and POE players going "Oh, well I'm just sheeping towncore when I don't vote for either of the obvious wolves."

That would freak you the fuck out in my shoes. Don't act like you think this is some wolf plot because the motivation and reasoning behind what I'm saying and doing is clear as can be.







We're almost surely gonna have to deal with the lost day phase to yeeting the Zealot sooner or later but eliminating wolves maintains a bit of margin of error on voting and causes the wolves to draw less cards at night. There are like 5 cards that could potentially mean the difference between a win and a loss depending on who draws them so eliminating a wolf now would be worth shifting the odds.

@Porscha @lucy Creature is always a wolf and never the zealot. Please vote there or at the very least, both vote Tutuu.

Fair I concede

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

I don't want to vote out fingersplints voters.

Of day 1 Alison voters Sig is the most likely hit.

Sig is not towny.

The ... solve I am getting to looks less and less likely to have Tutuu in it hmmm.

I don't think Sig and Tutuu are partners. I also am not sure Wilgy and Tutuu make sense as partners.

Can Seanzie be this towny as mafia? Not Bereft?

Creature
Seanzie
Falcon
Sig
Dennis?

Sig
Creature

pick one imo

Can you explain the wolf case on sig.

From what I saw live, I didn't like his Eod3 with the whole timing Roxy flip. Idk.

I haven't really come up with any specific. I just think through process of elimination, wagonomics and general production/appearance he's the least likely town player atm alongside Creature.

Creature I kinda have a more relevant read on in the sense that I think Creature's curve has been starting townier and getting slowly scummier which is like the complete inverse of his usual town curve. He doesn't have Creature tinfoil. Is tolerant of being pushed in a weird way. Keeps making shotgun votes and reads. Its like as mafia he just doesn't have the energy or care factor to try to look town.

^The case on Sig. Emphasis mine. It's literally just POE.

Dennis and Sabi, surely you can understand why I think it is a better move to yeet Creature in this scenario, who had a stronger case made on him on D1 than this case on Sig now.

Maybe they're both wolves and it doesn't fucking matter. But why roll the dice on maybes when we've got a sure thing?

[Bereft]

I had a sig case, and would not like to be ignored in all of this considering I was the first voter on the current wagon.

Creature's been in contention ever since D1. Who were their voters?

[Dennis]

Well I would 100% sooner yeet Creature than Sig, so I'm with you on that. Him voting me just because tutuu is there is ??? because did he ever ask why tutuu is there? And also because I've 'been let off the hook too easy' is like... maybe that's because I'm not mafia

I could vote Creature today, I will def be here before EoD so I'm staying on tutuu for now though

[Dennis]

I had a sig case, and would not like to be ignored in all of this considering I was the first voter on the current wagon.

Creature's been in contention ever since D1. Who were their voters?

What was your case then

Imma be a sig case expert by the time I'm through with this

[Jackofhearts2005]

The higher percentage of Sig voters that are wolves or potentially wolves also points to Sig being more likely to be the Zealot if all wagons are wolves and we should try to yeet nonzealot wolves first if at all possible.

Voting Sig is literally outting right now and if either of @Sabiplz or @DrWilgy end the day voting for Sig, I will consider that to be a hard scumclaim. Even if Sig is a wolf. Even if Sig is not the zealot.

We do not have the wiggle room to play sloppy and if either of you is town, you need to not only vote for the correct player so we can yeet that player but also so that you don't give wolves cover to just vote whoever with weak reasoning by doing that yourself.

I had a sig case, and would not like to be ignored in all of this considering I was the first voter on the current wagon.

Creature's been in contention ever since D1. Who were their voters?

Nobody EoD1 and EoD2. Sabi, Wilgy, Falcon voted there D3 while Roxy had an overwhelming 7 votes. SPF, Seanzie and I have all voted Creature at some point and I'm sure I'm missing some other temporary votes there.

Wolves have never actually attempted to bus Creature. If Creature is a wolf (and he's always a wolf), he's not the Zealot.

[Seanzie]

@falcon45ca vote Creature

[Seanzie]

I gave up on the Creature/Read ISOs idea. See you all later.

Vote Creature.

[Sabiplz]

Alright

Voting creature

Aubergine

[Dennis]

Hmmm I wonder who Seanzie thinks is bad

Do you guys know

[Porscha]

If Sig and Creature are partnered, then I don't see any point in tutuu calling them out immediately.

This only assumes all 3 would be wolves here, no

[staypositivefriend]

if it's coming down between sig and creature then i would prefer creature, partially because i have been slightly confirmation biased into a world where creature is mafia from d1 and being able to resolve that would be extremely helpful for my view of the game right now, and also because i find creature wolfier than sig on a holistic level. in particular, i think the way that creature is approaching his solving today is all wrong - it reads to me like he is focused on picking on an easy target above all else, whereas i think creature as town would be throwing a fit right now about how the game is doomed and about how me/mac need to be deepwolves because of a lack of pelts and etc etc. i think that his lack of general concern about the gamestate might be indicative of TMI

i dont really townread sig either in spite of me opening today by feeling slightly better about him, but i just feel more conviction about creature being wolfy

[staypositivefriend]

i have a lot going on today so wont be able to post much. @ me if you want anything specific

[Porscha]

Hmmm I wonder who Seanzie thinks is bad

Do you guys know

?????

[Porscha]

Unlikely I'll be around for the game much or at all up into eod
Glad we collectively decided to stop being naive towards creature I feel validated

Sorry for low presence this gameday, was depresso from my stuff yesterday
Game maybe barely salvageable

[DrWilgy]

@Jackofhearts2005 I need you to find SPF for me then as I think that slot is counter to your argument on creature.

The players I think I currently trust the least are in the order of Creature > Sig > SPF.

None of these are on Sig and it just feels better because of that.

Your argument is very damned if you do damned if you don't and I don't really see why you'd take that approach. The Ethos you put into your argument feels misaligned.

[Dennis]

Hmmm I wonder who Seanzie thinks is bad

Do you guys know

?????

His past two messages when I said this were telling people to vote Creature

It was a poorly executed joke I suppose

[robyn]

sabi invitational flashbacks

[Porscha]

sabi invitational flashbacks

I've been having same thought lol

[Porscha]

@Jackofhearts2005 I need you to find SPF for me then as I think that slot is counter to your argument on creature.

The players I think I currently trust the least are in the order of Creature > Sig > SPF.

None of these are on Sig and it just feels better because of that.

Your argument is very damned if you do damned if you don't and I don't really see why you'd take that approach. The Ethos you put into your argument feels misaligned.

Counter to argument? Havent jack and spf both been SR'ing creature...?

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall @DrWilgy @Sabiplz @Bereft

Sig is in my solve. However, he's far far far behind Creature and Tutuu in terms of wolfiness. Both Creature and Tutuu have a pov that is damn near impossible for a townie to have at this stage in the game. Creature is clearly coasting. SPF cased Creature as outside of his town meta and wolves ignored it D1. It is D4 and he has coasted through every single day when he could have been yeeted and yet he has not lost any morale or done any work. He's a wolf every time. Tutuu is pushing an absolute garbage POE and has turned on townreads like SPF, Dennis and myself almost purely in self defense. She does not really believe those reads. She has also treated these slots with the mocking tone of a wolf on D4 who has a full team. Practically putting her thumbs in her ears and sticking her tongue out at us. It is not the mindset of a townie on the verge of a loss and she is also a wolf every time. Sig is likely to be a wolf by POE but the case on him is flimsy to the point of nonexistence next to how obviously both Tutuu and Creature are wolves. Tutuu is voting for Sig. We're potentially 1 misyeet away from a loss. I think it's important to yeet Creature or Tutuu today.

I think that also means consolidating on Creature or Tutuu @staypositivefriend @falcon45ca @Seanzie @Dennis. I don't particularly care which, though I think Creature is unlikely to be the Zealot on account of wolves would be perfectly happy "yeeting" the Zealot but they've never managed or even made much of an attempt to "bus" Creature. Tutuu received strong pressure for the first time today and probably has a standard 1/5 chance of being the Zealot (or 1/4 if you assume Creature is never the Zealot).

So I think we should consolidate on Creature but if we'd prefer to consolidate on Tutuu, I'm fine with that, too. I think yeeting Sig today would be a mistake.

Sig is in your POE and has to be a wolf but yeeting him is a mistake?

Sussy sussy.

[MacDougall]

Sig/Jack is a possibility since Jack is trying to divert from that wagon.

Would it be that blatant? Idk maybe

Yes cuz they can maybe win today.

[MacDougall]

A wolf pelt is a wolf pelt and the fact that Jack even says that sig is in his poe but wants to kill the wagon is odd.

Hard agree.

[MacDougall]

sabi invitational flashbacks

What's the explanation for your non participation today?

[MacDougall]

@Creature @sig can y'all town it up please?

[DrWilgy]

@Jackofhearts2005 I need you to find SPF for me then as I think that slot is counter to your argument on creature.

The players I think I currently trust the least are in the order of Creature > Sig > SPF.

None of these are on Sig and it just feels better because of that.

Your argument is very damned if you do damned if you don't and I don't really see why you'd take that approach. The Ethos you put into your argument feels misaligned.

Counter to argument? Havent jack and spf both been SR'ing creature...?

Jack's argument was Creature is unlikely being bussed.

I do not Trust SPF and Creature.

SPF may be bussing Creature under that assumption and it makes for an argument against Jack's point. It also makes me more confident in a Sig vote than an Creature vote. Jack and SPF saying the similar things and suspicion does not apply to that argument.

Again, if anyone can find SPF for me in a way that makes sense I can maybe work with that.

I continue to acknowledge that I can't read SPF for shit, but the two self votes have me VERY daunted.

[MacDougall]

@Seanzie @Creature talk to be about SPF

If there aren't at least two wolves in SPF/Mac/Bereft, the game makes no sense.

I will say I’m beginning to get very bad vibes from Mac, mainly after skimming rondo ISO, but The issue with that is I don’t think mafia Mac would be faking this level of angst about a dumpster fire of town. I think he’d be gleeful about it

@DrWilgy
@Seanzie
@falcon45ca
@Jackofhearts2005
@Creature
@sig

If you had a bullet who would you kill? If you had a vest, who would you shield?

I’d shoot tuutuu and vest you (Sig plays buddying attempt it was very effective)

No progression here. He's blatantly just trying to buddy me.

Just read the last few posts of his iso. If he's town we're fucked but he's just not.

[MacDougall]

I think I can believe that there's 1 between Jack/Creature.

But man, my gut is screaming that there's one between Sig/Tutuu.

Mainly because I acknowledge that the scenario where I'm wrong about Sig only exists if they are correct about Tutuu I think.

I promise I’d be playing a much sneakier game if I was mafia much sneakier like so sneaky oooo you don’t know how sneaky I’d have been

Cmon lol

[MacDougall]

changed my mind overnight and dont think sig is mafia anymore. i think sabi/creature/jack contains at least 2.

think the game is being deepwolfed by probably exactly tutuu/one other player but im interested in just voting out a wolf today regardless of anything else

I could support this especially the sig isn’t mafia piece.

On my ISO list this phase is

Tuutuu
Wilgy
Jack
Creature
You (SPF)
Mac

And I’ll be doing a quick little reread of the people who are heavily the pushing the follow Allison legacy thoughts.

Ah the best laid plans hey.

[MacDougall]

I want someone to make a towncase on sig pulling from his actual content please

[MacDougall]

We've had town tying themselves in knots trying to solve this game and sig is just like sitting there absolutely giving no ounce of fuck about finding the mafia.

[staypositivefriend]

SPF may be bussing Creature under that assumption and it makes for an argument against Jack's point. It also makes me more confident in a Sig vote than an Creature vote. Jack and SPF saying the similar things and suspicion does not apply to that argument.

you can hard clear me in a world where creature is mafia because i was the first person to push on creature on d1 and the first to pressure him/bring attention to him, and i have pushed on him throughout the entire game. i do like to bus at points, but i would not treat my partner in that way

the idea that i'm bussing creature to toy with jack's reasoning doesn't make sense in the context of me having pushed on creature far before jack did

[staypositivefriend]

We've had town tying themselves in knots trying to solve this game and sig is just like sitting there absolutely giving no ounce of fuck about finding the mafia.

yeah i agree that his posts suck today

[staypositivefriend]

mac can u read through creature's posts today and give me ur thoughts? i'll do the same for sig

[Bereft]

It doesn't matter.

None of it matters. Suppose they're both wolf. Now its just, which of them do the wolves not want us to hang.

Seanzie has claimed Creature is not zealot out of thin air.

[DrWilgy]

SPF may be bussing Creature under that assumption and it makes for an argument against Jack's point. It also makes me more confident in a Sig vote than an Creature vote. Jack and SPF saying the similar things and suspicion does not apply to that argument.

you can hard clear me in a world where creature is mafia because i was the first person to push on creature on d1 and the first to pressure him/bring attention to him, and i have pushed on him throughout the entire game. i do like to bus at points, but i would not treat my partner in that way

the idea that i'm bussing creature to toy with jack's reasoning doesn't make sense in the context of me having pushed on creature far before jack did

This is mainly in context to the Zealot role. If Creature is the Zealot I think it is very likely a hellbus would happen.

However, this is neither here nor there. I need to do some heavy evaluation on your double self vote still. Creature/SIG both being wolves is very likely. I'm only 40% on you fitting into that.

[DrWilgy]

I could swap Sabi for idk Porscha. I’m scum reading Sabi off that one post alone. Wilgy could also potentially be town.

I don’t think there’s a world with town Tutuu or town Creature. I’m very concerned that one is just the zealot and we’ll have a shit time after getting essentially no yeet today. But there’s nothing we can do about that possibility.

Yeah there is. If there's a Zealot it's only Creature or Tutuu so vote out sig.

I very strongly think Creature is not the zealot. I'd bet my life on it.

I missed this.

It's funny because on the circumstance Seanzie is a wolf and Creature is not, this is still true.