Cartomancy [Game Over]

[robyn]

if we don't lynch within my order we mechanically lose, every town has to vote with me

[Jackofhearts2005]

creature being zealot does not make sense in light of seanzie's posts at the end of the day yesterday unless seanzie was going out of his way to troll, which i don't think he would do

It isn’t infodumping if you’re guessing. Spell it out.

[DrWilgy]

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

intent to thunderdome today

holy shit i hope youre mafia

Why? This is a waste of a post. Explain data, argue with me on the subject.

If I missed how make it clear, otherwise continue to be wolf.

sorry, i don't mean to be snippy. i reacted that way because:

1. i don't understand why you believe that creature being mafia (even in a world where he is zealot) points to sig being mafia. to me, the amount of friction between the creature and the sig wagons yesterday indicates the opposite to me, and i think that sig might be spewed town from the way the EOD played out

2. your argument on sig being mafia seemed to hinge partially on creature being the zealot, when there is a clear reason why he is not the zealot that i expected other people to have picked up

3. the implication that pushing on tutuu is wolfsiding when tutuu is the singular player in this game who has worked overtime to try to protect creature from being eliminated

1. Wagonomics between 2 teammates can still hold tension this game due to yeet-negation mechanics.

2. Sigs ISO is just wolfy, and maybe I didn't express clearly that I do think both Creature and Sig to be Wolfy. Sig is playing this game, and sidelining while town chews itself up. That was very much a key argument I made yesterday.

3. Creature was not yeeted due to mechanics. Tutuu doesn't invest as much energy into protecting Creature if they are aware they can be saved BY said mechanics.

I think Seanzie flipping T does ultimately point to a Mac wolf world. Mac W very much indicates T Tutuu. This is a very light statement and I'd need to review.

[Bereft]

I don't understand how you can't explain hypothetically why we have to hang in exactly that order.
I finally went and looked back at what exactly Oracle does, and I don't get it.

[Bereft]

Judgement card can be only played once.

[staypositivefriend]

creature being zealot does not make sense in light of seanzie's posts at the end of the day yesterday unless seanzie was going out of his way to troll, which i don't think he would do

It isn’t infodumping if you’re guessing. Spell it out.

okay

i believe that seanzie outright mechanically hard claimed that he had information to suggest that creature was not the zealot. i don't see any other way to interpret the posts that he made about creature

[Jackofhearts2005]

The people that look bad after creature non flip:

Tutuu

Jack

Jack honestly looks worse because he tried to. Kill every sig wagon and was pushing creature so hard to wagon creature that it wasn't even misguided town.

Tutuu defense of creature seems kinda twtbaw. It's too blatant idk.

Judgement slink doesn’t care if wolf A gets yeeted or of wolf B gets yeeted. The holder can grant mercy to everyone. This is only a valid thought if Creature is the zealot, which we have mechanical and logical reason to think he’s not.

[Jackofhearts2005]

creature being zealot does not make sense in light of seanzie's posts at the end of the day yesterday unless seanzie was going out of his way to troll, which i don't think he would do

It isn’t infodumping if you’re guessing. Spell it out.

okay

i believe that seanzie outright mechanically hard claimed that he had information to suggest that creature was not the zealot. i don't see any other way to interpret the posts that he made about creature

Pretend I’m on mobile and I want you to tell me specifically what card would tell him that.

[DrWilgy]

creature being zealot does not make sense in light of seanzie's posts at the end of the day yesterday unless seanzie was going out of his way to troll, which i don't think he would do

It isn’t infodumping if you’re guessing. Spell it out.

okay

i believe that seanzie outright mechanically hard claimed that he had information to suggest that creature was not the zealot. i don't see any other way to interpret the posts that he made about creature

Aye, and if there's likely a judgement user between you and Mac who both sus'd creature, the. It's time for you two to go.

[robyn]

I don't understand how you can't explain hypothetically why we have to hang in exactly that order.
I finally went and looked back at what exactly Oracle does, and I don't get it.

i know who pulled cards such as judgement and death and who is and who isn't zealot

there's a card called justice which when pulled is another mafia kill, if mafia pulls that then that's quite literally 2 town for 1 mafia which is very bad news, lynching zealot after means another town, dangerously close to parity

anyways spf/mac are both outed fmpov

[robyn]

Judgement card can be only played once.

i theoretically know who played it

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

intent to thunderdome today

holy shit i hope youre mafia

Why? This is a waste of a post. Explain data, argue with me on the subject.

If I missed how make it clear, otherwise continue to be wolf.

sorry, i don't mean to be snippy. i reacted that way because:

1. i don't understand why you believe that creature being mafia (even in a world where he is zealot) points to sig being mafia. to me, the amount of friction between the creature and the sig wagons yesterday indicates the opposite to me, and i think that sig might be spewed town from the way the EOD played out

2. your argument on sig being mafia seemed to hinge partially on creature being the zealot, when there is a clear reason why he is not the zealot that i expected other people to have picked up

3. the implication that pushing on tutuu is wolfsiding when tutuu is the singular player in this game who has worked overtime to try to protect creature from being eliminated

1. Wagonomics between 2 teammates can still hold tension this game due to yeet-negation mechanics.

2. Sigs ISO is just wolfy, and maybe I didn't express clearly that I do think both Creature and Sig to be Wolfy. Sig is playing this game, and sidelining while town chews itself up. That was very much a key argument I made yesterday.

3. Creature was not yeeted due to mechanics. Tutuu doesn't invest as much energy into protecting Creature if they are aware they can be saved BY said mechanics.

I think Seanzie flipping T does ultimately point to a Mac wolf world. Mac W very much indicates T Tutuu. This is a very light statement and I'd need to review.

1. but if the mafia used the judgement card (which seems like a valid guess), then why would that tension exist in the first place? if the mafia could stop the elimination regardless, then why was there so much friction between who died between sig/creature?

this is the train of thought that makes me struggle to see a sig wolf world that is compatible with a creature wolf world

2. okay. i think sig got townier as the day went on even though i don't hard townread him by his posts alone. i just think that the way the wagons played out yesterday might indicate that he's town

3. well, from the mafias POV, which option is better?

A. sig is miseliminated as town

or

B. creature is "eliminated" but the elimination doesn't go through because of the judgement card

obviously, option A is better than option B, which is why tutuu fighting to get sig miseliminated instead of creature being "outed" and potentially outing herself/her team makes more sense to me

granted, this is relying on a big "if" that sig is town

[Bereft]

Judgement card can be only played once.

i theoretically know who played it

You haven't explained how Mac and SPF are hypothetically partnered.
Also as far as I know each card appears infinitely many times in the deck.

[Sabiplz]

I just think Jack is outted.

JACK WHO FORCED THE WAGONS ON TO CREATURE AND KILLED ANY WAGON ON ANYONE ELSE.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't understand how you can't explain hypothetically why we have to hang in exactly that order.
I finally went and looked back at what exactly Oracle does, and I don't get it.

i know who pulled cards such as judgement and death and who is and who isn't zealot

there's a card called justice which when pulled is another mafia kill, if mafia pulls that then that's quite literally 2 town for 1 mafia which is very bad news, lynching zealot after means another town, dangerously close to parity

anyways spf/mac are both outed fmpov

The entire towncore being mafia is…a situation.

[Bereft]

JAck why are your posts always so off

[robyn]

Judgement card can be only played once.

i theoretically know who played it

You haven't explained how Mac and SPF are hypothetically partnered.
Also as far as I know each card appears infinitely many times in the deck.

spf's and mac's positions are blatantly wolfy here, if they were v/v they always dome one another before gamestate gets to this

they're w/v minimum, i'll case beyond this though

[staypositivefriend]

@Jackofhearts2005 the chariot and the magician both look like they could theoretically confirm that someone is not the zealot. not sure if any other cards could tbf

[Jackofhearts2005]

JAck why are your posts always so off

What are you talking about? I’m town leader and lead the first wolf yeet yesterday.

Lucy is basically claiming red peeks on Mac AND SPF and Tuutu’s play yesterday was wolfy af.

I’m not pulling this stuff out of my butt.

[staypositivefriend]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

[Bereft]

Judgement card can be only played once.

i theoretically know who played it

You haven't explained how Mac and SPF are hypothetically partnered.
Also as far as I know each card appears infinitely many times in the deck.

spf's and mac's positions are blatantly wolfy here, if they were v/v they always dome one another before gamestate gets to this

they're w/v minimum, i'll case beyond this though

Ok got it, I now understand everything and can act accordingly.
Mafia using Judgement on town would be pretty devious but I don't think there's anything much we can do accept to ignore insane mech plays.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I want to believe SPF is still town because my heart says so but I’m already deeply uncomfortable with how close we are to infodumping (possibly already over the line) so I can’t really ask Lucy to clarify.

[staypositivefriend]

Judgement card can be only played once.

i theoretically know who played it

You haven't explained how Mac and SPF are hypothetically partnered.
Also as far as I know each card appears infinitely many times in the deck.

spf's and mac's positions are blatantly wolfy here, if they were v/v they always dome one another before gamestate gets to this

they're w/v minimum, i'll case beyond this though

oh okay so i was right, lucy does not have mechanical information and is just going out of her way to wolfside even though she should be able to figure out i'm town by doing the worlds most basic spew analysis. that's cool. that's good

[Sabiplz]

JAck why are your posts always so off

What are you talking about? I’m town leader and lead the first wolf yeet yesterday.

Lucy is basically claiming red peeks on Mac AND SPF and Tuutu’s play yesterday was wolfy af.

I’m not pulling this stuff out of my butt.

"lead"

Only lead if sig was being voted which makes me think

[robyn]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

holy fuck this post is so fucking wolfy you're questioning my mechanical reds LMAO

[Bereft]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

To summarize. Lucy claims a zealot check in sig/porscha. The rest of what Lucy is saying is not very useful.

[Sabiplz]

Can we please just vote jack

[robyn]

Judgement card can be only played once.

i theoretically know who played it

You haven't explained how Mac and SPF are hypothetically partnered.
Also as far as I know each card appears infinitely many times in the deck.

spf's and mac's positions are blatantly wolfy here, if they were v/v they always dome one another before gamestate gets to this

they're w/v minimum, i'll case beyond this though

oh okay so i was right, lucy does not have mechanical information and is just going out of her way to wolfside even though she should be able to figure out i'm town by doing the worlds most basic spew analysis. that's cool. that's good

one in you/mac are scum

[staypositivefriend]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

holy fuck this post is so fucking wolfy you're questioning my mechanical reds LMAO

yes because your read that me/mac contains a wolf is not based on mechanics, it is based on you reading the game badly. i wouldn't care about discrediting the read so much if you weren't trying to make it look like a mechanical read and not a threadstate read

[robyn]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

To summarize. Lucy claims a zealot check in sig/porscha. The rest of what Lucy is saying is not very useful.

i also know that 1 in 2 alive players on the creature wagon used judgement on creature

[Sabiplz]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

holy fuck this post is so fucking wolfy you're questioning my mechanical reds LMAO

Welp this is confirmed infodumping then

[robyn]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

To summarize. Lucy claims a zealot check in sig/porscha. The rest of what Lucy is saying is not very useful.

i also know that 1 in 2 alive players on the creature wagon used judgement on creature

@staypositivefriend please explain how this isn't a red

[Dennis]

I don't like how 'they would've domed each other by now' is our reason for pairing people as w/w but I guess I haven't played with them so I can't reeeally say no but I still don't like it one bit

Also someone else tell me the difference between doming and thunderdoming

[DrWilgy]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

To summarize. Lucy claims a zealot check in sig/porscha. The rest of what Lucy is saying is not very useful.

Judgement within SPF/Mac, them both voting there then Creature surviving is pretty relevant I think.

[staypositivefriend]

uhhhhh i think this is going into territory that we're not allowed to talk about

do you have a list of all the people on the creature wagon yesterday?

[Bereft]

im just going to be blunt and say that since info-dumping is not allowed in this setup, my thought is that lucy does not actually have the mechanical knowledge to say that me/mac definitely contains a mafia, or else she wouldn't be able to say it in the first place

i would be kind of embarrassed to live in a world where mac is mafia and i've been badly misreading him for this entire game but if he is, i don't think that lucy's claim is why

To summarize. Lucy claims a zealot check in sig/porscha. The rest of what Lucy is saying is not very useful.

i also know that 1 in 2 alive players on the creature wagon used judgement on creature

Lucy, it is not possible to tell who used a Judgement card.

Just because one of Mac/SPF drew one, which I'm sure one of them might verify if they cared to, doesn't mean they drew the card that actually got played.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Can we please just vote jack

Claiming wolf is not considered info dumping, fyi. You don’t have to like hint.

Spoiler: show

Creature, Tutuu, one in Sig/Porscha, Wilgy, Mac. Okay, Sabi probably just wrongtown but man what a good zinger imma just leave it

[Dennis]

You know what no I'm done following what other people say this game because look where that got us

Mac/spf = t/t

[Jackofhearts2005]

It would be kinda appropriate for Daisy to put us out of our misery for infodumping.

[robyn]

i'm pissed and i'll start casing tomorrow i think, every town reading this must follow me and recognize that mafia has incentive to not follow me and to persuade you to not follow me. i'll explain everything more clearly tomorrow, stack on mac until then

[DrWilgy]

uhhhhh i think this is going into territory that we're not allowed to talk about

do you have a list of all the people on the creature wagon yesterday?

fwiw based on the rule: No info-dumping regarding what card you drew and how you used it

And power roles being able to claim, I'd think Lucy sharing the spread data to be fair game?

@Spacedaisy can you elaborate? I did a Ctrl f on your ISO to see if there's anything contrary to that and didn't see anything immediate.

[Dennis]

JAck why are your posts always so off

What are you talking about? I’m town leader and lead the first wolf yeet yesterday.

Lucy is basically claiming red peeks on Mac AND SPF and Tuutu’s play yesterday was wolfy af.

I’m not pulling this stuff out of my butt.

Are you town leader? I didn't think you had all that much thread influence to be quite honest

[Jackofhearts2005]

JAck why are your posts always so off

What are you talking about? I’m town leader and lead the first wolf yeet yesterday.

Lucy is basically claiming red peeks on Mac AND SPF and Tuutu’s play yesterday was wolfy af.

I’m not pulling this stuff out of my butt.

Are you town leader? I didn't think you had all that much thread influence to be quite honest

I’m the protagonist of all games. That’s why I’m never yeeted or nightkilled and I got my own discord channel.

[DrWilgy]

Also, this one may sound dumb, but we live in a strange world if I've been correct in town reading Mac for 5 days both of us are still alive.

Makes me think I was wrong. Maybe it's abit foily.

[Bereft]

"No info-dumping regarding what card you drew and how you used it"

This technically doesn't apply to Oracle since Oracles don't draw cards. However this might not have been the intended spirit.

[Jackofhearts2005]

"No info-dumping regarding what card you drew and how you used it"

This technically doesn't apply to Oracle since Oracles don't draw cards. However this might not have been the intended spirit.

Lol about time we got a lucky bounce.

[staypositivefriend]

"Every night the Oracle reads a three card spread. This entails choosing three players. At the end of the night phase, The Oracle will learn the three cards that were drawn by that group of three players, but not which player drew which card. The Oracle cannot be night killed."

this is the description of the oracle in the OP. it is not mechanically possible for lucy to know who played a specific card on a specific dayphase. it is not mechanically possible for lucy to know that a player on the creature wagon was the one who played the judgement card (even if it is possible)

so @lucy i need you to cut the bullshit and stop framing your objectively non-mechanical reads as though they are mechanically true. if you're that confused about my alignment then INTERACT WITH ME. stop trying to be the hero.

[Bereft]

I am glad I am now aware of the Justice card, but its also simply not possible that Lucy knows that Mac/SPF avoids it.

[robyn]

"Every night the Oracle reads a three card spread. This entails choosing three players. At the end of the night phase, The Oracle will learn the three cards that were drawn by that group of three players, but not which player drew which card. The Oracle cannot be night killed."

this is the description of the oracle in the OP. it is not mechanically possible for lucy to know who played a specific card on a specific dayphase. it is not mechanically possible for lucy to know that a player on the creature wagon was the one who played the judgement card (even if it is possible)

so @lucy i need you to cut the bullshit and stop framing your objectively non-mechanical reads as though they are mechanically true. if you're that confused about my alignment then INTERACT WITH ME. stop trying to be the hero.

i know the cards played yesterday for 3 players do i not? if they use a card that is public i will know how it was used, will i not?

i don't see your argument because that's quite literally the role, seeing who played what card on x day. it is strictly mechanically possible for me to know who got and played x card on x day lol, i'm not sure at all how you're arguing this point

[robyn]

possible

how?