Game of Champions 2022 mafia win lol

[Porscha]

Unknowingly? How does that work?

Like reflexively?

His power is unclear even to him

My guess is he just gives people stuff but he doesnt know what he gives. After the first two gifts were 1 shot day vig guns, he tried giving that to michelle, but the gift changed into a suicide vest. That's ender's claim

[Party Crasher]

@DrWilgy @Dyslexicon @EnderWiggin @falcon45ca @Golden @Guillotine @Kate @Neon @Porscha @RondoDimBuckle @S~V~S @Scotty @sig @Sloonei @Urist

DONT GO OVER 200 POSTS. NOT TODAY, NOT EVER

creature and rondo both went over 200 on d2 (the 2 people neon outed she could shoot on n2). sabi went over 200 on d1. tsp and 112 barely posted

also post as much as you can, as close to 200 as you can, so that you aren't low posting enough to be eligible due to slanking

like, if u wanna live, post as close as u can to 200 without going over 200

-t

There is no slank vigilante or i would have been killed on night 3

Neon chose 112 instead. 112 posted 6 times on Day 3. Neon could be a townsiding 3p, or straight up town. Or if she's a scumsiding 3p, she could have thought you're mafia

not being given access to dvc immediately.

What is this dvc thing you keep talking about and how do you know who is there?

I'm calling it dvc (dead villager chat / graveyard chat) but it's the The GOC2022 discord server hub. All of us are there - players, hosts, dead players, spectators. U had to join it in order to play this game. On the right side you can see the player names. All dead players are given spoiled or unspoiled roles, meaning they are given access to channels where they can talk about the game. Ilario (waza) wasnt given one for a long time. Hollowkatt still isn't given that access. Meaning that he isn't de facto "dead", like ilario wasn't for a few phases. Hence my theory that they are still "moderating" the game for Nanook because Nanook is lazy. This is for you too @Guillotine because you were asking me earlier but I was conserving post count

@DrWilgy please don't offer yourself to get shot by Neon, she is NOT guaranteed town. Her role is pretty broken for a town role and she might be 3p

@Kate @Urist if u guys are absolutely sure that im 3p and i need to die, i can offer to get shot by guillo tonight to break my shield, to reduce the amount of kp needed to kill me (chopping doesnt instantly kill me if i have my shield)

If u guys arent, i can continue playing my normal town game and proving that im town and trying my hardest to solve, like ive been doing all game

Nook just trolled us pretty hard by giving us a town role that was designed to look as much 3p as humanly possible lmao

The reason why im asking now is because, if u guys decide tomorrow that u wanna start killing me, it just sucks to waste an extra kp on my slot (when guillo could have done that + proved his role), instead of using that kp to shoot scum. So i need u to 1) get a confident read on me asap
2) tell me whats that read asap, and if i should proceed with operation sudoku, so i can communicate it with guillo on time

-t

Dude when tf did I say anything like that?

Yes but I'm trying to think 10 steps ahead. I don't want to just sit idle and wait for you guys to out whatever read you have on me. Worst case scenario - you scumread me. In that case I want ample time to organize what to do next. I'd need time to think if I should convince u I'm town or have enough time to talk to Guillo etc. I'd like to be productive and not waste my time. That's why I was talking hypotethically if you do end up scumreading me

-t

[Porscha]

Anyone who joined the wagon after michelle blowing up gets no credit, who was pushing SvS before it?

To be fair a good portion of the remaining players were already putting svs in poe to the extent they actively wanted her vigged or at least were fine with her getting vigged

[Porscha]

@DrWilgy @Dyslexicon @EnderWiggin @falcon45ca @Golden @Guillotine @Kate @Neon @Porscha @RondoDimBuckle @S~V~S @Scotty @sig @Sloonei @Urist

DONT GO OVER 200 POSTS. NOT TODAY, NOT EVER

creature and rondo both went over 200 on d2 (the 2 people neon outed she could shoot on n2). sabi went over 200 on d1. tsp and 112 barely posted

also post as much as you can, as close to 200 as you can, so that you aren't low posting enough to be eligible due to slanking

like, if u wanna live, post as close as u can to 200 without going over 200

-t

There is no slank vigilante or i would have been killed on night 3

Neon chose 112 instead. 112 posted 6 times on Day 3. Neon could be a townsiding 3p, or straight up town. Or if she's a scumsiding 3p, she could have thought you're mafia

not being given access to dvc immediately.

What is this dvc thing you keep talking about and how do you know who is there?

I'm calling it dvc (dead villager chat / graveyard chat) but it's the The GOC2022 discord server hub. All of us are there - players, hosts, dead players, spectators. U had to join it in order to play this game. On the right side you can see the player names. All dead players are given spoiled or unspoiled roles, meaning they are given access to channels where they can talk about the game. Ilario (waza) wasnt given one for a long time. Hollowkatt still isn't given that access. Meaning that he isn't de facto "dead", like ilario wasn't for a few phases. Hence my theory that they are still "moderating" the game for Nanook because Nanook is lazy. This is for you too @Guillotine because you were asking me earlier but I was conserving post count

@DrWilgy please don't offer yourself to get shot by Neon, she is NOT guaranteed town. Her role is pretty broken for a town role and she might be 3p

@Kate @Urist if u guys are absolutely sure that im 3p and i need to die, i can offer to get shot by guillo tonight to break my shield, to reduce the amount of kp needed to kill me (chopping doesnt instantly kill me if i have my shield)

If u guys arent, i can continue playing my normal town game and proving that im town and trying my hardest to solve, like ive been doing all game

Nook just trolled us pretty hard by giving us a town role that was designed to look as much 3p as humanly possible lmao

The reason why im asking now is because, if u guys decide tomorrow that u wanna start killing me, it just sucks to waste an extra kp on my slot (when guillo could have done that + proved his role), instead of using that kp to shoot scum. So i need u to 1) get a confident read on me asap
2) tell me whats that read asap, and if i should proceed with operation sudoku, so i can communicate it with guillo on time

-t

Dude when tf did I say anything like that?

Yes but I'm trying to think 10 steps ahead. I don't want to just sit idle and wait for you guys to out whatever read you have on me. Worst case scenario - you scumread me. In that case I want ample time to organize what to do next. I'd need time to think if I should convince u I'm town or have enough time to talk to Guillo etc. I'd like to be productive and not waste my time. That's why I was talking hypotethically if you do end up scumreading me

-t

Towny af post tbh lol

[Guillotine]

I'm calling it dvc (dead villager chat / graveyard chat) but it's the The GOC2022 discord server hub. All of us are there - players, hosts, dead players, spectators. U had to join it in order to play this game. On the right side you can see the player names. All dead players are given spoiled or unspoiled roles, meaning they are given access to channels where they can talk about the game.

I'm pretty sure reading into this qualifies as angleshooting

[Guillotine]

Which makes you town tnh

[Guillotine]

Neon chose 112 instead. 112 posted 6 times on Day 3. Neon could be a townsiding 3p, or straight up town. Or if she's a scumsiding 3p, she could have thought you're mafia

Why would 3P scum side?

[Kate]

@DrWilgy @Dyslexicon @EnderWiggin @falcon45ca @Golden @Guillotine @Kate @Neon @Porscha @RondoDimBuckle @S~V~S @Scotty @sig @Sloonei @Urist

DONT GO OVER 200 POSTS. NOT TODAY, NOT EVER

creature and rondo both went over 200 on d2 (the 2 people neon outed she could shoot on n2). sabi went over 200 on d1. tsp and 112 barely posted

also post as much as you can, as close to 200 as you can, so that you aren't low posting enough to be eligible due to slanking

like, if u wanna live, post as close as u can to 200 without going over 200

-t

There is no slank vigilante or i would have been killed on night 3

Neon chose 112 instead. 112 posted 6 times on Day 3. Neon could be a townsiding 3p, or straight up town. Or if she's a scumsiding 3p, she could have thought you're mafia

not being given access to dvc immediately.

What is this dvc thing you keep talking about and how do you know who is there?

I'm calling it dvc (dead villager chat / graveyard chat) but it's the The GOC2022 discord server hub. All of us are there - players, hosts, dead players, spectators. U had to join it in order to play this game. On the right side you can see the player names. All dead players are given spoiled or unspoiled roles, meaning they are given access to channels where they can talk about the game. Ilario (waza) wasnt given one for a long time. Hollowkatt still isn't given that access. Meaning that he isn't de facto "dead", like ilario wasn't for a few phases. Hence my theory that they are still "moderating" the game for Nanook because Nanook is lazy. This is for you too @Guillotine because you were asking me earlier but I was conserving post count

@DrWilgy please don't offer yourself to get shot by Neon, she is NOT guaranteed town. Her role is pretty broken for a town role and she might be 3p

@Kate @Urist if u guys are absolutely sure that im 3p and i need to die, i can offer to get shot by guillo tonight to break my shield, to reduce the amount of kp needed to kill me (chopping doesnt instantly kill me if i have my shield)

If u guys arent, i can continue playing my normal town game and proving that im town and trying my hardest to solve, like ive been doing all game

Nook just trolled us pretty hard by giving us a town role that was designed to look as much 3p as humanly possible lmao

The reason why im asking now is because, if u guys decide tomorrow that u wanna start killing me, it just sucks to waste an extra kp on my slot (when guillo could have done that + proved his role), instead of using that kp to shoot scum. So i need u to 1) get a confident read on me asap
2) tell me whats that read asap, and if i should proceed with operation sudoku, so i can communicate it with guillo on time

-t

Dude when tf did I say anything like that?

Yes but I'm trying to think 10 steps ahead. I don't want to just sit idle and wait for you guys to out whatever read you have on me. Worst case scenario - you scumread me. In that case I want ample time to organize what to do next. I'd need time to think if I should convince u I'm town or have enough time to talk to Guillo etc. I'd like to be productive and not waste my time. That's why I was talking hypotethically if you do end up scumreading me

-t

I don't scum read you at all. And I never said anything about thinking you were 3p. We all have our own opinions in there, it's not like hive mind.

[DrWilgy]

This post here from wolf JJJ has the near exact same feel to me:

POE says it's Nook, but Wilgy is starting to Wilg me out...

What if, knowing he has some convalescence ahead of him, Wilgy puts in a Herculean D1 to setup a deep wolf game?

Could be. When I performed my prior review of Wilgy, it often felt like I had to nitpick to raise gripes. The case would have to be of the on-the-nose variety: he voted outed wolf, which invited Nanook's follow, and in so doing created a significant counterwagon to Sparkles. Then he fell off given his surgical needs. At this stage of play it's something that should be considered.

Is there something in particular that points your tinfoil in his direction instead of mine or Sabi's?

PoE created of Sloonei/Wilgy in spite of previous data and inclination compares to the PoE of Nook and I JJJ used. JJJ using Falcon's thinking to push this agenda screams in reminder when you use the context of Golden using Rondo's like/like check (which at the very least isn't still hard confirmed, and not the boldest claim imo).

And yes, I know you can't damn player behavior on the back of another player's previous actions, but wolf behavior I think finds a way to have lines of convergence where these patterns pop up and are correct.

(JJJ won Kid's Birthday Party Mafia with the above pivot for context)

Yep. Sad day, IIRC I was sus of JJJ's lukewarm playstyle, but didn't follow up enough due to pivoting. Golden's post does remind me of that tactic

I guess iata here if everyone but me agrees? Idk man
You can convince me it's an... attempt... at a pivot post. I think it would be weak if it legitimatally was
I dont think you could convince me its wilgy oriented specifically
And golden has done nothing with the so-called pivot and clearly seemed to be trying to think out loud when thread was dead
I would like to pump the brakes a little on this line of reasoning until I'm provided with far more reason to agree with the dissenters

I don't have to convince anything. I made an observation that indicates anti town behavior.

It's up to you to find it correct or not and react to it by means that suits your alignment.

I find it strange that rather than disagreement with said observation, you attempt to actually take away power from the observation by saying that it needs convincing.

This is semantics. I dont know if it is correct and I'm not convinced by your argument. If I said everyone but me agrees then that means I do not agree

You slank half the game away and this is what you hit me with? I'm having specific thoughts you may be 3p if you arent town

Yes, and now you are further discrediting an argument by stating it's just semantics.

Again, the part that was odd wasn't that you disagreed, but more so how you presented it. "I disagree" is very different from "you need to convince me" as one places the actionable query in a neutral state that can grow and the other places the responsibility strictly on a person who's already said their peace.

Also "hit you with"? I don't believe I've hit you with anything, and it honestly seems that you've placed a strange amount of focus and energy on both my responses to golden and my response to you further.

[DrWilgy]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from the MR kill. Stating that I'm just spanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

[Golden]

What also helps with PCs mod squad analysis for me is three things:

1) redacting makes complete sense
2) svs and neon were both people I had pegged soecifucally as likely 3p, and if they’re both mod squad that fits perfectly.
3) I’m becoming more convinced we don’t have any 3p outside of mod squad.

For me the big question is “are mod squad a threat to the town?” I’m not 100% sure on that with this theory, svs claiming she isn’t inherently antitown feels true to me.

In which case I head back to the fact we probably have 1-3 (two feels right) wolves remaining among the rest of us.

Wilgy/Sloonei are plausible but as per rondo would have to be paired. Solve one, solve both.

Other candidates, interactive reads are necessary. If we were to push for wolves instead of 3p.

Taking that into account, of the five people I went back and felt my townread reasons aren’t as great as I was hoping, from wolfiest to least wolfy right now in my opinion are:

Falcon
Ender
Wilgy/Sloonei
Dizzy

[DrWilgy]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

I'm clearly not afraid of confronting you and going out of my way to get you to play

If you are having doubts on my alignment then I'd like you to ask yourself if you think I am fearless because I'm not town or because I probably just am
And also if you say I'm not town then that's spitting in mac's face and surely you would never do that to our boy mac

Do you attribute wolf play to being afraid? Did I imply that you were afraid?

Again, there was plenty of other bits of content to draw you into conversation with me, so it's very important to consider what cause and effect actually resulted in this.

And don't get me wrong, I recognize your ping and ask if my thoughts, but that's just so much less effort than what went into the discredit play you did towards my golden argument.

I absolutely would. Harping a Mac Neon misread nearly resulted in a town loss during Hott Fuzz.

[Golden]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from the MR kill. Stating that I'm just spanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Genuine question to you, coming from the lens that you actually are town (and I still lean towards you are, I’m just not feeling certain).

MR gave up in the thread and basically self-outed. Do you think you don’t shoot him in that scenario if you’re wolf?

[Dyslexicon]

Hello, gaymers!

[DrWilgy]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from the MR kill. Stating that I'm just spanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Genuine question to you, coming from the lens that you actually are town (and I still lean towards you are, I’m just not feeling certain).

MR gave up in the thread and basically self-outed. Do you think you don’t shoot him in that scenario if you’re wolf?

I think we are missing a step here.

If I'm scum, I don't give the chance for MR to wiggle out of getting me credit by asking Neon. Hell even if I wanted to save MR for a yeet I don't put the power in another player's ball park.

Further if Neon gives me two options and I say I'll coinflip rather than just shooting my slanky teammate that'd also be suboptimal.

As wolf, I'm either 1. Going harder for the credit or 2. Stalling my teammates death.

There's VERY little scenarios where I do middling shit as W.

[Golden]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from the MR kill. Stating that I'm just spanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Genuine question to you, coming from the lens that you actually are town (and I still lean towards you are, I’m just not feeling certain).

MR gave up in the thread and basically self-outed. Do you think you don’t shoot him in that scenario if you’re wolf?

I think we are missing a step here.

If I'm scum, I don't give the chance for MR to wiggle out of getting me credit by asking Neon. Hell even if I wanted to save MR for a yeet I don't put the power in another player's ball park.

Further if Neon gives me two options and I say I'll coinflip rather than just shooting my slanky teammate that'd also be suboptimal.

As wolf, I'm either 1. Going harder for the credit or 2. Stalling my teammates death.

There's VERY little scenarios where I do middling shit as W.

Yes, I like this response. So you’re saying the kill would be less clearing for you if the shot was MORE clean?

[DrWilgy]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from the MR kill. Stating that I'm just spanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Genuine question to you, coming from the lens that you actually are town (and I still lean towards you are, I’m just not feeling certain).

MR gave up in the thread and basically self-outed. Do you think you don’t shoot him in that scenario if you’re wolf?

I think we are missing a step here.

If I'm scum, I don't give the chance for MR to wiggle out of getting me credit by asking Neon. Hell even if I wanted to save MR for a yeet I don't put the power in another player's ball park.

Further if Neon gives me two options and I say I'll coinflip rather than just shooting my slanky teammate that'd also be suboptimal.

As wolf, I'm either 1. Going harder for the credit or 2. Stalling my teammates death.

There's VERY little scenarios where I do middling shit as W.

Yes, I like this response. So you’re saying the kill would be less clearing for you if the shot was MORE clean?

Yes.

Simply put, from an outside perspective, W Wilgy I don't think ever allows so many variables in the decision to off a teammate or not.

[Golden]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from the MR kill. Stating that I'm just spanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Genuine question to you, coming from the lens that you actually are town (and I still lean towards you are, I’m just not feeling certain).

MR gave up in the thread and basically self-outed. Do you think you don’t shoot him in that scenario if you’re wolf?

I think we are missing a step here.

If I'm scum, I don't give the chance for MR to wiggle out of getting me credit by asking Neon. Hell even if I wanted to save MR for a yeet I don't put the power in another player's ball park.

Further if Neon gives me two options and I say I'll coinflip rather than just shooting my slanky teammate that'd also be suboptimal.

As wolf, I'm either 1. Going harder for the credit or 2. Stalling my teammates death.

There's VERY little scenarios where I do middling shit as W.

Yes, I like this response. So you’re saying the kill would be less clearing for you if the shot was MORE clean?

Yes.

Simply put, from an outside perspective, W Wilgy I don't think ever allows so many variables in the decision to off a teammate or not.

Yeah actually this rings true to me.

[Golden]

Wilgy what bothered me most is you’re desire to coast on ‘that shot should clear me’ when I didn’t think it should but I get it more now.

Assuming svs is honest and 3p not wolf, gut says the last wolves are in the Falcon, ender, dizzy trio. Outside chance of scotty but I really don’t think so. Or guillo, who I think is still acting wolfy but who is so disconnected from the thread that I’m finding it hard not to townread.

[sig]

@Kate same for you.

Is there a chance Golden is mafia?

No. Absolutely not mafia.

Okay I agree, but was getting paranoid so wanted some people familiar with his meta to back me up.

Also thanks @Sloonei or the detailed view

[sig]

I could see this a high and low style role

Maybe she has 2 shots but 1 is for high poster 1 is for low.

Either way it’s a town role so idc that much if she’s hitting people in the POE

IS that a town role? 2 free shots every day if conditions are met? I mean maybe, but why are you so confident

She shot mafia and have been playing a townie game outside of the shot.

Is there a world where she’s third party? Maybe like 10% chance and guess what when we eliminate the last 1-2 mafia members if we haven’t won we get rid of neon simple.

Now isn’t the time to be going on paranoid witch hunts of the people who shot mafia it’ll only delay the game and there isn’t a single town reason for it

Of course you don’t want people suspecting those that shot mafia.

You shot mafia

Duh

But, also it never makes sense for mafia to shoot mafia unless

1. We’ve got two mafia teams (we don’t)

2. The theory is it wasn’t mafia but third party: if this is true it could only apply to Neon who’s been very town sided all game. Maybe she’s SK, but if so she’s playing it really poorly. So I’m inclined to think town

3. The ONLY potential caveat here and this would be in the most tin foil theory ever is that Wilgy is mafia who shoot mafia.

tbh Alison was a hero shot. There wasn’t conclusively that she was mafia. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn’t.

I wouldn’t presume to dictate how different teams act.

Hero shots are the best.

I know right?

Ill hero shot 100% of the time even if it backfires. Which is probably why I never get guns anymore lol

[Golden]

In any event it’s helpful that wilgy and Sloonei appear to resolve each other in the event that one dies.

[sig]

Unknowingly? How does that work?

Like reflexively?

His power is unclear even to him

My guess is he just gives people stuff but he doesnt know what he gives. After the first two gifts were 1 shot day vig guns, he tried giving that to michelle, but the gift changed into a suicide vest. That's ender's claim

It seems like a modified vendor role for sure.

He always gives some sort of kp thing. The first two were guns and I’d not be shocked if from here on out they’re all suicide vests.

@EnderWiggin can you not give something out or is it required?

[Porscha]

This post here from wolf JJJ has the near exact same feel to me:

Could be. When I performed my prior review of Wilgy, it often felt like I had to nitpick to raise gripes. The case would have to be of the on-the-nose variety: he voted outed wolf, which invited Nanook's follow, and in so doing created a significant counterwagon to Sparkles. Then he fell off given his surgical needs. At this stage of play it's something that should be considered.

Is there something in particular that points your tinfoil in his direction instead of mine or Sabi's?

PoE created of Sloonei/Wilgy in spite of previous data and inclination compares to the PoE of Nook and I JJJ used. JJJ using Falcon's thinking to push this agenda screams in reminder when you use the context of Golden using Rondo's like/like check (which at the very least isn't still hard confirmed, and not the boldest claim imo).

And yes, I know you can't damn player behavior on the back of another player's previous actions, but wolf behavior I think finds a way to have lines of convergence where these patterns pop up and are correct.

(JJJ won Kid's Birthday Party Mafia with the above pivot for context)

Yep. Sad day, IIRC I was sus of JJJ's lukewarm playstyle, but didn't follow up enough due to pivoting. Golden's post does remind me of that tactic

I guess iata here if everyone but me agrees? Idk man
You can convince me it's an... attempt... at a pivot post. I think it would be weak if it legitimatally was
I dont think you could convince me its wilgy oriented specifically
And golden has done nothing with the so-called pivot and clearly seemed to be trying to think out loud when thread was dead
I would like to pump the brakes a little on this line of reasoning until I'm provided with far more reason to agree with the dissenters

I don't have to convince anything. I made an observation that indicates anti town behavior.

It's up to you to find it correct or not and react to it by means that suits your alignment.

I find it strange that rather than disagreement with said observation, you attempt to actually take away power from the observation by saying that it needs convincing.

This is semantics. I dont know if it is correct and I'm not convinced by your argument. If I said everyone but me agrees then that means I do not agree

You slank half the game away and this is what you hit me with? I'm having specific thoughts you may be 3p if you arent town

Yes, and now you are further discrediting an argument by stating it's just semantics.

Again, the part that was odd wasn't that you disagreed, but more so how you presented it. "I disagree" is very different from "you need to convince me" as one places the actionable query in a neutral state that can grow and the other places the responsibility strictly on a person who's already said their peace.

Also "hit you with"? I don't believe I've hit you with anything, and it honestly seems that you've placed a strange amount of focus and energy on both my responses to golden and my response to you further.

I'm not fond of this discourse. You provided an idea to the thread. I said I dont find the idea convincing and therefore I disagree with your idea. I welcomed you to provide more if you so wished so that maybe I could see what you could see, but that I wasnt seeing it as is. You dont need to do more, and I never demanded you do. You dont *need* to convince me - I just wont agree with you unless you do convince me. Because that's how arguments work.

I did not discredit your argument. I said I dont agree with your argument. The argument is you see parallels. I dont see them. There is *zero* discrediting being done. You accused me of not saying something I did say, and I proved it. Calling it semantics was nice of me tbh- it was just incorrect of you to accuse me of "not disagreeing" when that's exactly what I did. And the colored text plainly shows that. But isnt particularly important, so I dont mind calling it semantics and leaving it at that.

Golden is a topic of conversation and I have not placed any special attention to it, and since your responses towards me have been accusational, I respond to them. This is normal. Your responses have been weirding me out, in fact. Not because of nonsense like "placing too much focus or energy" on them, but because they feel manufactured.

[sig]

I also agree with both Porsche and Gullio on the SVS piece

If she flips third party there should be zero town credit given, if she flips mafia less town credit for anyone who jumped on post Michelle/claim. However, as Porsche pointed out she’s been in almost everyone’s POE for a good 2 phases I’d say.

[sig]

Also Porsche/Wilgy seems t/t to me

[Dyslexicon]

reminder that dizzy shot modsquad. he didnt shoot mafia

-t

I almost did rip

Any two gutsy players wanna vote me so i can shoot someone tonight?

Preferably PoEs

I can do that, and then you can see for yourself <3

---

I don't know what is going on with Mod Squad things. I can see PC's theory being at least close to the truth. I also don't know whether they are a threat or not, but I'm very sure I don't want to take that chance. I think Neon being a slanker/spammer vig is very likely, and I also think that would fit very well with being Mod Squad. It has ties to modding.

For me, the PoE for mafia is very small:
Scotty
Urist
Falcon - I'm pretty sure there was some spew that looked good for Falcon.
Porscha - But I'm completely taking Porscha out of it at this point tbh. I think she's squarely out of mafia range.

I think Wilgy and Sloonei are both town. Quite sure about this actually. I also think Rondo is town.
Golden could still be 3p, but I think it's more likely that Neon is after reading PC's theory tbh.

I'm content being in the PoE and just blast through at this point tbh. I know I have clearing interactions for me, but that probably isn't enough for some. I think I'm in most people's upper PoE, which is fine.

I now have two worries:
1. There might be a lost wolf, and in that case, it's much harder to figure out who it is.
2. The name of the mafia team is still SOUP mafia, and we have had people claiming a lot of shit. I think most big game tend to have some sort of claim mechanic, and when the name is literally soup, I'm worried about a soup kill coming our way.

[Party Crasher]

final post from me for today:

sig > rondo > sloonei > neon > dizzy is my poe. i want those deaths in this order atm, assuming svs flips mod squad and mod squad is not eliminated. if it is eliminated, neon is town

i think that sloonei is openly wolfing / 3ping, more than rondo, but rondo's claim makes it suboptimal to flip sloonei before rondo

im too tired to write explanations now. ill tell my hydra partners about it so it wont get lost even if someone pops our shield tonight and i die

i would advise u dnd people to be cautious. if u die in dnd u might die in the mafia game, i dunno. it wouldnt be good

guillo, urist, kate

porscha, wilgy, ender, falcon, golden

scotty

dizzy

sig, rondo, sloonei, neon



-t

[Dyslexicon]

Can we afford me voting Guillo?

[Dyslexicon]

I think I skipped some part of the thread today tbh. I'm sure Ender posted stuff

[sig]

Wilgy what bothered me most is you’re desire to coast on ‘that shot should clear me’ when I didn’t think it should but I get it more now.

Assuming svs is honest and 3p not wolf, gut says the last wolves are in the Falcon, ender, dizzy trio. Outside chance of scotty but I really don’t think so. Or guillo, who I think is still acting wolfy but who is so disconnected from the thread that I’m finding it hard not to townread.

Gulllio is acting wolfy, but that’s within his cov meta. What clinched it for me was

1. His claim
2. His reaction to Mac claiming the same role.
3. How he called me mafia and tunneled it for so long over my joke about the thread count. He does this almost every game we’ve played and so far he’s been a civ in all of them.


I’m definitely embracing falcon more as potential mafia. I plan to go back and take a look at his ISO to see why he was town cored and I’d probably say he shouldn’t be voted off next phase but he’s a prime back up vote/vig

[sig]

Can we afford me voting Guillo?

I’d not recommend it there’s too many unknowns still around KPs out there and if ender gives another suicide vest + we have standard kills it could put us in a bad spot

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy what bothered me most is you’re desire to coast on ‘that shot should clear me’ when I didn’t think it should but I get it more now.

Assuming svs is honest and 3p not wolf, gut says the last wolves are in the Falcon, ender, dizzy trio. Outside chance of scotty but I really don’t think so. Or guillo, who I think is still acting wolfy but who is so disconnected from the thread that I’m finding it hard not to townread.

Jokes on you for assuming I'm coasting on that. I've literally been like "shoot me" because I'm well aware of me being a much more of a null slot and I do think there could result positive thread growth from it.

I still haven't hit a stride this game where I have conclusions. However I do feel like I'm getting closer.

[sig]

I also still want PC gone I don’t think any of their posts or reads are genuine right now and I don’t like the singular focus on Third parties while ignoring mafia.

In fact I’m baffled that nobody else seems to care about this

[Dyslexicon]

Can we afford me voting Guillo?

I’d not recommend it there’s too many unknowns still around KPs out there and if ender gives another suicide vest + we have standard kills it could put us in a bad spot

There's another benefit to it though, and that's confirming Guillo. It's still possible that either he faked the claim, as two identical roles had already flipped at the point he claimed, or that mafia were given VT role texts.

I think his posts today are nicht gut, but to be fair that's NAI for Guillo

[Porscha]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from the MR kill. Stating that I'm just spanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from Mac's read on me. Stating that I'm just slanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Wilgy if you want me to give a read on you, you can just ask

[Dyslexicon]

Outside chance of scotty but I really don’t think so.

Why? I think Scotty is exactly mafia. Marmot focused a lot on him, voted him at points and interacted a lot, which he did with the other flipped wolves too (except for Alison). I remember playing a game where Scotty was mafia, I was town and we got to end game, and I was convinced Scotty was mafia, but others weren't listening and he won in FX. Please let this not be that.

[Porscha]

Can we afford me voting Guillo?

I’d not recommend it there’s too many unknowns still around KPs out there and if ender gives another suicide vest + we have standard kills it could put us in a bad spot

There's another benefit to it though, and that's confirming Guillo. It's still possible that either he faked the claim, as two identical roles had already flipped at the point he claimed, or that mafia were given VT role texts.

I think his posts today are nicht gut, but to be fair that's NAI for Guillo

If guillo shoots someone at night it isnt that confirming imo

It isnt AI no matter what the role does

And unless there is another person who would like to claim they are also his town counterpart then like. Why risk yourself if you're town to confirm the guy who's most detached from thread? As said above, theres still other kp... offering to confirm guillo on day 4 is not necessary

[sig]

Can we afford me voting Guillo?

I’d not recommend it there’s too many unknowns still around KPs out there and if ender gives another suicide vest + we have standard kills it could put us in a bad spot

More info on this 16 living players

Likely 2 Third parties (we’ll know for sure post SVS flip)

14 players that count to the game 1-3 mafia let’s say worst case scenario 3 that means a team of 8.

11-3


Vote is 3P doesn’t matter so this night phase 2 kills for sure if they both hit town (one is factional mafia so we can assume it’ll hit town)

9-3

Tomorrow if we assume another suicide vest + a gun which I believe is a good bet to make worst case all 3 hit civ

6-3

Misvote

5-3

Boom game over.


Is this likely to happen? No

Am I taking a lot of liberties to paint the most pessimistic picture? Yes

But, I’m doing this to say we shouldn’t be axing people like Wilgy or dizzy through gullio right now it’s not a smart civ play

[Dyslexicon]

Outside chance of scotty but I really don’t think so.

Why? I think Scotty is exactly mafia. Marmot focused a lot on him, voted him at points and interacted a lot, which he did with the other flipped wolves too (except for Alison). I remember playing a game where Scotty was mafia, I was town and we got to end game, and I was convinced Scotty was mafia, but others weren't listening and he won in FX. Please let this not be that.

Not to mention that Marmot voting Mac for the lulz in a Scotty town world makes no sense

[sig]

Can we afford me voting Guillo?

I’d not recommend it there’s too many unknowns still around KPs out there and if ender gives another suicide vest + we have standard kills it could put us in a bad spot

There's another benefit to it though, and that's confirming Guillo. It's still possible that either he faked the claim, as two identical roles had already flipped at the point he claimed, or that mafia were given VT role texts.

I think his posts today are nicht gut, but to be fair that's NAI for Guillo

If guillo shoots someone at night it isnt that confirming imo

It isnt AI no matter what the role does

And unless there is another person who would like to claim they are also his town counterpart then like. Why risk yourself if you're town to confirm the guy who's most detached from thread? As said above, theres still other kp... offering to confirm guillo on day 4 is not necessary

Agreed worst case mafia holsters a shot or he’s mafia and just uses his shot there.

It just sounds like a bad idea to me.

[Porscha]

I also still want PC gone I don’t think any of their posts or reads are genuine right now and I don’t like the singular focus on Third parties while ignoring mafia.

In fact I’m baffled that nobody else seems to care about this

I personally enjoy having the general disruption because I would not have drawn those possible conclusions this early in the game and if there are 1-? 3p and 1-2 mafia then it isnt particularly important to figure out which is which (but I also say this because I dont think it's possible to sincerely hunt and / or ascertain mafia from 3p right now anyway)

[DrWilgy]

This post here from wolf JJJ has the near exact same feel to me:


PoE created of Sloonei/Wilgy in spite of previous data and inclination compares to the PoE of Nook and I JJJ used. JJJ using Falcon's thinking to push this agenda screams in reminder when you use the context of Golden using Rondo's like/like check (which at the very least isn't still hard confirmed, and not the boldest claim imo).

And yes, I know you can't damn player behavior on the back of another player's previous actions, but wolf behavior I think finds a way to have lines of convergence where these patterns pop up and are correct.

(JJJ won Kid's Birthday Party Mafia with the above pivot for context)

Yep. Sad day, IIRC I was sus of JJJ's lukewarm playstyle, but didn't follow up enough due to pivoting. Golden's post does remind me of that tactic

I guess iata here if everyone but me agrees? Idk man
You can convince me it's an... attempt... at a pivot post. I think it would be weak if it legitimatally was
I dont think you could convince me its wilgy oriented specifically
And golden has done nothing with the so-called pivot and clearly seemed to be trying to think out loud when thread was dead
I would like to pump the brakes a little on this line of reasoning until I'm provided with far more reason to agree with the dissenters

I don't have to convince anything. I made an observation that indicates anti town behavior.

It's up to you to find it correct or not and react to it by means that suits your alignment.

I find it strange that rather than disagreement with said observation, you attempt to actually take away power from the observation by saying that it needs convincing.

This is semantics. I dont know if it is correct and I'm not convinced by your argument. If I said everyone but me agrees then that means I do not agree

You slank half the game away and this is what you hit me with? I'm having specific thoughts you may be 3p if you arent town

Yes, and now you are further discrediting an argument by stating it's just semantics.

Again, the part that was odd wasn't that you disagreed, but more so how you presented it. "I disagree" is very different from "you need to convince me" as one places the actionable query in a neutral state that can grow and the other places the responsibility strictly on a person who's already said their peace.

Also "hit you with"? I don't believe I've hit you with anything, and it honestly seems that you've placed a strange amount of focus and energy on both my responses to golden and my response to you further.

I'm not fond of this discourse. You provided an idea to the thread. I said I dont find the idea convincing and therefore I disagree with your idea. I welcomed you to provide more if you so wished so that maybe I could see what you could see, but that I wasnt seeing it as is. You dont need to do more, and I never demanded you do. You dont *need* to convince me - I just wont agree with you unless you do convince me. Because that's how arguments work.

I did not discredit your argument. I said I dont agree with your argument. The argument is you see parallels. I dont see them. There is *zero* discrediting being done. You accused me of not saying something I did say, and I proved it. Calling it semantics was nice of me tbh- it was just incorrect of you to accuse me of "not disagreeing" when that's exactly what I did. And the colored text plainly shows that. But isnt particularly important, so I dont mind calling it semantics and leaving it at that.

Golden is a topic of conversation and I have not placed any special attention to it, and since your responses towards me have been accusational, I respond to them. This is normal. Your responses have been weirding me out, in fact. Not because of nonsense like "placing too much focus or energy" on them, but because they feel manufactured.

Aye, the subject of "you can convince me" is still very different from "can you convince me" or "help me see what you see". The previous, again takes away while the latter helps build. Perhaps I could have stated that better.

Again, you didn't. The argument moved from disagreement when you pushed the thought back to me in a manner that doesn't necessarily promote thought growth.

I wonder if the discourse here may be in the word discredit. Perhaps disabling the arguments growth would be better way to phrase it?

Again, how does this compare to all my other content though?

Define Manufactured? I don't think I understand the argument.

[Dyslexicon]

Can we afford me voting Guillo?

I’d not recommend it there’s too many unknowns still around KPs out there and if ender gives another suicide vest + we have standard kills it could put us in a bad spot

There's another benefit to it though, and that's confirming Guillo. It's still possible that either he faked the claim, as two identical roles had already flipped at the point he claimed, or that mafia were given VT role texts.

I think his posts today are nicht gut, but to be fair that's NAI for Guillo

If guillo shoots someone at night it isnt that confirming imo

It isnt AI no matter what the role does

And unless there is another person who would like to claim they are also his town counterpart then like. Why risk yourself if you're town to confirm the guy who's most detached from thread? As said above, theres still other kp... offering to confirm guillo on day 4 is not necessary

Alright. I kind of wanted to for spite reasons too. I'm not better than that uwu

[Dyslexicon]

I am very much looking forward to PC winning this game as lone hydra 3p. Well deserved tbh tbh

[DrWilgy]

Also Porsche/Wilgy seems t/t to me

I am starting to agree with this.

[DrWilgy]

Also it's interesting that this is the first real interaction of note I've had with you Porschuwaga.

Besides for meaningless @s at least. Why is this?

Because I wasnt around day 1 when you were and other than that you've hardly posted? Not that I've been the most active player either tbf but that's why I called on you to show up..

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from the MR kill. Stating that I'm just spanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Ah, but you see, at least others have found me quite in contention. Plenty have said I'm towny, while plenty have argued I get too much credit from Mac's read on me. Stating that I'm just slanking and am not around seems to be at least contrary to this as others have shown evidence above of both engaging me and drawing conclusions.

Wilgy if you want me to give a read on you, you can just ask

Why did you change my typo of spanking back to slanking. That just kills it's charm.

[Dyslexicon]

Also Porsche/Wilgy seems t/t to me

I am starting to agree with this.

You are both obvtown, now kiss

[DrWilgy]

Can we afford me voting Guillo?

I’d not recommend it there’s too many unknowns still around KPs out there and if ender gives another suicide vest + we have standard kills it could put us in a bad spot

More info on this 16 living players

Likely 2 Third parties (we’ll know for sure post SVS flip)

14 players that count to the game 1-3 mafia let’s say worst case scenario 3 that means a team of 8.

11-3


Vote is 3P doesn’t matter so this night phase 2 kills for sure if they both hit town (one is factional mafia so we can assume it’ll hit town)

9-3

Tomorrow if we assume another suicide vest + a gun which I believe is a good bet to make worst case all 3 hit civ

6-3

Misvote

5-3

Boom game over.


Is this likely to happen? No

Am I taking a lot of liberties to paint the most pessimistic picture? Yes

But, I’m doing this to say we shouldn’t be axing people like Wilgy or dizzy through gullio right now it’s not a smart civ play

Generally in terms of game balance there's about .22% of Mafia to others, which would imply 8.8 Mafia members, so this may not be too far off.

[DrWilgy]

Also Porsche/Wilgy seems t/t to me

I am starting to agree with this.

You are both obvtown, now kiss

But I have a sore throat.