[END] Literal WWerecreatures Invade Syndicate Zoo: An SDN Crossover Game

[potentialsheltervet]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

I mean... Maybe. Idk. I'm currently torn on falcon. I think Sloonei really just doesn't want to talk to you tbh

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm at the edge of my seat waiting for Seanzie to explain why we can't elim falcon despite his scum read and why that's making him vote Zenge, the champion of yeeting falcon.

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Dennis] aubergine

[Scotty]

Let it also be known that I’d *prefer* a syndiCat player to go first.

I was thinking about this, and as a game structural standpoint, I believe there to be an even number of players in each community on the mafia team. So I feel fine about one of my community going first

[Zenge]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

I mean... Maybe. Idk. I'm currently torn on falcon. I think Sloonei really just doesn't want to talk to you tbh

That’s fair. But for the second I’ve started this Falcon push they came in to shut it down, claiming “That’s just Falcon” and have refused time and time again to not really answer any questions about my interaction with Falcon.

Like if you’re going to defend someone you think is village wouldn’t you actually take apart the merits of the case against them instead of giving fake politicians answers that never actually answer the question?

[Scotty]

*everyone votes me*


>no, not like that

[falcon45ca]

@falcon45ca Why do you have a problem with me TRing Neon?

I don't?






I was curious as to what was informing your read...like, was it something specific you saw in Neon's post, or sheeping someone you do TR?





I'm still curious btw

[Seanzie]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

[Seanzie]

I'm at the edge of my seat waiting for Seanzie to explain why we can't elim falcon despite his scum read and why that's making him vote Zenge, the champion of yeeting falcon.

I already did. Do I need to quote it?

[Zenge]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

Can you elaborate on why asking one of my village reads what her opinion is, is a “weird” and “potentially telling” tag?

[Seanzie]

Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

To address this now, I will use the SUPER NAI method of just quoting a post from another game where I explain this (I've had to explain this a lot):


NOTE: The following spoilered post is NOT from this game. It is from another game.

Spoiler: show

No to Falcon. No.

Not yet at least.

Overruled

Give a good reason if you want people to listen.

Falcon is an easy read as time goes on and are an easy misyeet for wolves early. If Falcon is a wolf, taking them out will not severely hinder the wolves (no offence to Falcon, but he kinda hates wolfing, and while he isn't a negative to the wolf-team, he isn't exactly the choice to go deep), and Falcon's best strength as a wolf is he is good at not leaving spew/leaving misleading spew, so flipping him early gives very little benefit even if he is wolf, but leaving him alive will never cause a loss because he is wolf (if we wouldn't have lost anyways), and we will know if he is town or not because elo.

@potentialsheltervet

[Seanzie]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

Can you elaborate on why asking one of my village reads what her opinion is, is a “weird” and “potentially telling” tag?

Before I do that, I'd like to hear exactly why you thought to bring AM on the discussion.

[Zenge]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

Can you elaborate on why asking one of my village reads what her opinion is, is a “weird” and “potentially telling” tag?

Before I do that, I'd like to hear exactly why you thought to bring AM on the discussion.

Because I trust my village read on her, and she’d posted recently so I knew she was around.

[Animal Midwife]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I'm not sure if it's that straight forward. I'd need some insight to other Sloonei wolfing games.

[Seanzie]

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

Can you elaborate on why asking one of my village reads what her opinion is, is a “weird” and “potentially telling” tag?

Before I do that, I'd like to hear exactly why you thought to bring AM on the discussion.

Because I trust my village read on her, and she’d posted recently so I knew she was around.

Is AM the type that can be pointed at a specific target with reasonable effect?

[pyxxy]

@pyxxy you mentioned I was acting weird. Does that make me suspicious or are you just pointing at things and harrumphing?

I'm suspicious that you've got something going on. There is something tbd about your posting that is related to your role somehow. I can feel it from how your big animal+alignment posts.

Doesn't mean your scummy. Doesn't mean we can't win together if you're 3p.

i don't understand why you go 3p over scum when you say you have suspicion

It's what my gut says.

[Zenge]

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

Can you elaborate on why asking one of my village reads what her opinion is, is a “weird” and “potentially telling” tag?

Before I do that, I'd like to hear exactly why you thought to bring AM on the discussion.

Because I trust my village read on her, and she’d posted recently so I knew she was around.

Is AM the type that can be pointed at a specific target with reasonable effect?

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?

[Seanzie]

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

Can you elaborate on why asking one of my village reads what her opinion is, is a “weird” and “potentially telling” tag?

Before I do that, I'd like to hear exactly why you thought to bring AM on the discussion.

Because I trust my village read on her, and she’d posted recently so I knew she was around.

Is AM the type that can be pointed at a specific target with reasonable effect?

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?

AM seems to be known for their intensity. Do they tend to focus on specific people and push there?

[Zenge]

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

Can you elaborate on why asking one of my village reads what her opinion is, is a “weird” and “potentially telling” tag?

Before I do that, I'd like to hear exactly why you thought to bring AM on the discussion.

Because I trust my village read on her, and she’d posted recently so I knew she was around.

Is AM the type that can be pointed at a specific target with reasonable effect?

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?

AM seems to be known for their intensity. Do they tend to focus on specific people and push there?

No, I don’t think I’d say that’s something that AM “tends” to do any more or any less than anyone else.

[Seanzie]

Can you elaborate on why asking one of my village reads what her opinion is, is a “weird” and “potentially telling” tag?

Before I do that, I'd like to hear exactly why you thought to bring AM on the discussion.

Because I trust my village read on her, and she’d posted recently so I knew she was around.

Is AM the type that can be pointed at a specific target with reasonable effect?

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?

AM seems to be known for their intensity. Do they tend to focus on specific people and push there?

No, I don’t think I’d say that’s something that AM “tends” to do any more or any less than anyone else.

What does AM tend to do then? Can you give me a TLDR on them?

[Zenge]

Before I do that, I'd like to hear exactly why you thought to bring AM on the discussion.

Because I trust my village read on her, and she’d posted recently so I knew she was around.

Is AM the type that can be pointed at a specific target with reasonable effect?

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?

AM seems to be known for their intensity. Do they tend to focus on specific people and push there?

No, I don’t think I’d say that’s something that AM “tends” to do any more or any less than anyone else.

What does AM tend to do then? Can you give me a TLDR on them?

She analyzes the posts players make, and the gamestate as a whole, decides who she thinks is the wolfiest and votes there.

[miranda920]

@miranda920 Are you a Breedlove or a Seagull?

Excuse my ignorance, what is a Breedlove? I am neither

Scotty was pretty close with their guess! I was pretty impressed!

Do you have any thoughts of the game so far?

I’ve been at work all morning so I haven’t caught up really

I feel like Scotty is town, it feels like they really put a lot of thought as to which animals we are

I’m unsurprised that Santy is trying to push me

I feel like everyone always tone reads me as wolfy so, meh

I haven’t looked too much at anyone individually so I don’t have any reads for you ATM

This is an interesting take. I felt like it was more amusing D0 filler.

Do you think that he actually thinks one of the player's is his father-in-law?

Does stating that they are constitute game solving?

I mean it probably was just fluff, but I appreciated it.
Also I want to say it was Neon, also said that post made Scotty seem town but no one really questioned them about it.

I don’t, but I thought I read somewhere that there is a parent and a child playing - don’t remember the specifics

Not sure what your last question is referring to

[pyxxy]

@miranda920 Are you a Breedlove or a Seagull?

Excuse my ignorance, what is a Breedlove? I am neither

Scotty was pretty close with their guess! I was pretty impressed!

Do you have any thoughts of the game so far?

I’ve been at work all morning so I haven’t caught up really

I feel like Scotty is town, it feels like they really put a lot of thought as to which animals we are

I’m unsurprised that Santy is trying to push me

I feel like everyone always tone reads me as wolfy so, meh

I haven’t looked too much at anyone individually so I don’t have any reads for you ATM

This is an interesting take. I felt like it was more amusing D0 filler.

Do you think that he actually thinks one of the player's is his father-in-law?

Does stating that they are constitute game solving?

I mean it probably was just fluff, but I appreciated it.
Also I want to say it was Neon, also said that post made Scotty seem town but no one really questioned them about it.

I don’t, but I thought I read somewhere that there is a parent and a child playing - don’t remember the specifics

Not sure what your last question is referring to

"there is a parent and a child playing"
Kate (mom) and Dennis (son, 14yo)

[Seanzie]

Because I trust my village read on her, and she’d posted recently so I knew she was around.

Is AM the type that can be pointed at a specific target with reasonable effect?

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?

AM seems to be known for their intensity. Do they tend to focus on specific people and push there?

No, I don’t think I’d say that’s something that AM “tends” to do any more or any less than anyone else.

What does AM tend to do then? Can you give me a TLDR on them?

She analyzes the posts players make, and the gamestate as a whole, decides who she thinks is the wolfiest and votes there.

This sounds like a very passive approach and does not match what I've heard others say about them.

[miranda920]

I have read mostly up to page 13 and I took an accidental nap… this will have to be continued tomorrow because I’m tired. Wednesdays I’m at the lab from 4-1 and then I go into the clinic from 1-5, so it’s been an extra long day for me

[miranda920]

@miranda920 Are you a Breedlove or a Seagull?

Excuse my ignorance, what is a Breedlove? I am neither

Scotty was pretty close with their guess! I was pretty impressed!

Do you have any thoughts of the game so far?

I’ve been at work all morning so I haven’t caught up really

I feel like Scotty is town, it feels like they really put a lot of thought as to which animals we are

I’m unsurprised that Santy is trying to push me

I feel like everyone always tone reads me as wolfy so, meh

I haven’t looked too much at anyone individually so I don’t have any reads for you ATM

This is an interesting take. I felt like it was more amusing D0 filler.

Do you think that he actually thinks one of the player's is his father-in-law?

Does stating that they are constitute game solving?

I mean it probably was just fluff, but I appreciated it.
Also I want to say it was Neon, also said that post made Scotty seem town but no one really questioned them about it.

I don’t, but I thought I read somewhere that there is a parent and a child playing - don’t remember the specifics

Not sure what your last question is referring to

"there is a parent and a child playing"
Kate (mom) and Dennis (son, 14yo)

Oh yes, thank you!

[Zenge]

Is AM the type that can be pointed at a specific target with reasonable effect?

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?

AM seems to be known for their intensity. Do they tend to focus on specific people and push there?

No, I don’t think I’d say that’s something that AM “tends” to do any more or any less than anyone else.

What does AM tend to do then? Can you give me a TLDR on them?

She analyzes the posts players make, and the gamestate as a whole, decides who she thinks is the wolfiest and votes there.

This sounds like a very passive approach and does not match what I've heard others say about them.

I mean I guess the way I describe it is a little dry.

I’m not really sure where this line of questioning is trying to go. Can you just say what you want to say instead of dancing around it and answer my original question?

Why is my asking AM for her opinion “weird” and “Potentially outting”?

[Zenge]

@santygrass you’re being weirdly quiet this game. Where are you?

[Seanzie]

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase?

AM seems to be known for their intensity. Do they tend to focus on specific people and push there?

No, I don’t think I’d say that’s something that AM “tends” to do any more or any less than anyone else.

What does AM tend to do then? Can you give me a TLDR on them?

She analyzes the posts players make, and the gamestate as a whole, decides who she thinks is the wolfiest and votes there.

This sounds like a very passive approach and does not match what I've heard others say about them.

I mean I guess the way I describe it is a little dry.

I’m not really sure where this line of questioning is trying to go. Can you just say what you want to say instead of dancing around it and answer my original question?

Why is my asking AM for her opinion “weird” and “Potentially outting”?

Because I wonder if the intensity that AM is known for sometimes ends up on townies, and if your asking AM didn't have any agenda attached.

[Zenge]

AM seems to be known for their intensity. Do they tend to focus on specific people and push there?

No, I don’t think I’d say that’s something that AM “tends” to do any more or any less than anyone else.

What does AM tend to do then? Can you give me a TLDR on them?

She analyzes the posts players make, and the gamestate as a whole, decides who she thinks is the wolfiest and votes there.

This sounds like a very passive approach and does not match what I've heard others say about them.

I mean I guess the way I describe it is a little dry.

I’m not really sure where this line of questioning is trying to go. Can you just say what you want to say instead of dancing around it and answer my original question?

Why is my asking AM for her opinion “weird” and “Potentially outting”?

Because I wonder if the intensity that AM is known for sometimes ends up on townies, and if your asking AM didn't have any agenda attached.

I asked her because she’s a smart savvy player and her opinion matters to me, and considering I’m villager reading her, and Dyachei has village read her (Dyachei who has never been wrong on their read of AM in like 7+ years), I can trust that it’s an honest read from a villager (outside of a AM/Dyachei W/W world, which I don’t think is likely here).

That being said, AM is never anyone’s pit bull. She pushes people independently. She frequently wolf reads people and finds separate people to wolf read and push, separate from other peoples pushes.

[Seanzie]

No, I don’t think I’d say that’s something that AM “tends” to do any more or any less than anyone else.

What does AM tend to do then? Can you give me a TLDR on them?

She analyzes the posts players make, and the gamestate as a whole, decides who she thinks is the wolfiest and votes there.

This sounds like a very passive approach and does not match what I've heard others say about them.

I mean I guess the way I describe it is a little dry.

I’m not really sure where this line of questioning is trying to go. Can you just say what you want to say instead of dancing around it and answer my original question?

Why is my asking AM for her opinion “weird” and “Potentially outting”?

Because I wonder if the intensity that AM is known for sometimes ends up on townies, and if your asking AM didn't have any agenda attached.

I asked her because she’s a smart savvy player and her opinion matters to me, and considering I’m villager reading her, and Dyachei has village read her (Dyachei who has never been wrong on their read of AM in like 7+ years), I can trust that it’s an honest read from a villager (outside of a AM/Dyachei W/W world, which I don’t think is likely here).

That being said, AM is never anyone’s pit bull. She pushes people independently. She frequently wolf reads people and finds separate people to wolf read and push, separate from other peoples pushes.

I'm a pitbull. That's the animal that I asked JJJ to give me, and I got it.

[potentialsheltervet]

@falcon45ca Why do you have a problem with me TRing Neon?

I don't?






I was curious as to what was informing your read...like, was it something specific you saw in Neon's post, or sheeping someone you do TR?





I'm still curious btw

I'm not sheeping anyone. I've liked her tone and feel like she's genuinely trying to solve.

[potentialsheltervet]

Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

To address this now, I will use the SUPER NAI method of just quoting a post from another game where I explain this (I've had to explain this a lot):


NOTE: The following spoilered post is NOT from this game. It is from another game.

Spoiler: show

No to Falcon. No.

Not yet at least.

Overruled

Give a good reason if you want people to listen.

Falcon is an easy read as time goes on and are an easy misyeet for wolves early. If Falcon is a wolf, taking them out will not severely hinder the wolves (no offence to Falcon, but he kinda hates wolfing, and while he isn't a negative to the wolf-team, he isn't exactly the choice to go deep), and Falcon's best strength as a wolf is he is good at not leaving spew/leaving misleading spew, so flipping him early gives very little benefit even if he is wolf, but leaving him alive will never cause a loss because he is wolf (if we wouldn't have lost anyways), and we will know if he is town or not because elo.

@potentialsheltervet

Hm. I see. But if it comes down to it and it's hypothetically between likely wolf Falcon and likely town someone else, then voting Falcon is by far the better choice.
But I suppose your point being it's better to pursue someone else first?

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm a pitbull. That's the animal that I asked JJJ to give me, and I got it.

I'm sorry for your allergies.

[potentialsheltervet]

@santygrass you’re being weirdly quiet this game. Where are you?

I don't remember Santy posting at all except for fluffing about being village D0. Weird of him to go MIA. That's not usually his silly goose self

[Mayo the Mayo]

@Mayo the Mayo who would you shoot?

Almost certainly a villager.

I didn't inherit your aim.

[Seanzie]

Hello everyone, finally caught up from Day 1 opening, so I'll be making a series of posts to give my thoughts/impressions

The biggest issue so far seems to be the conflict between Falcon/Zenge/Sloonie/Seanzie

Here are my reads of it:
Falcon - Scum lean
Zenge - Village lean
Sloonie - Village lean
Seanzie - Confused scum lean. Falcon was sus, but we cannot eliminate Falcon, so you vote for Zenge? Is your opinion toward Falcon based in past history (Falcon is a strong player, we should keep him around) or something else?

Generally, I find Zenge to have had the more convincing argument than Falcon (although this may admittedly be attributed to SDN bias), while Sloonie's commentary felt villagey to me

To address this now, I will use the SUPER NAI method of just quoting a post from another game where I explain this (I've had to explain this a lot):


NOTE: The following spoilered post is NOT from this game. It is from another game.

Spoiler: show

No to Falcon. No.

Not yet at least.

Overruled

Give a good reason if you want people to listen.

Falcon is an easy read as time goes on and are an easy misyeet for wolves early. If Falcon is a wolf, taking them out will not severely hinder the wolves (no offence to Falcon, but he kinda hates wolfing, and while he isn't a negative to the wolf-team, he isn't exactly the choice to go deep), and Falcon's best strength as a wolf is he is good at not leaving spew/leaving misleading spew, so flipping him early gives very little benefit even if he is wolf, but leaving him alive will never cause a loss because he is wolf (if we wouldn't have lost anyways), and we will know if he is town or not because elo.

@potentialsheltervet

Hm. I see. But if it comes down to it and it's hypothetically between likely wolf Falcon and likely town someone else, then voting Falcon is by far the better choice.
But I suppose your point being it's better to pursue someone else first?

More or less, yes.

[Mayo the Mayo]

You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.

I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.

Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.

I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.

I still expect an answer here.

I think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.

You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.

Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.

I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.

Get out of here with your calm and reasoning.

Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.

[Scotty]

What does AM tend to do then? Can you give me a TLDR on them?

She analyzes the posts players make, and the gamestate as a whole, decides who she thinks is the wolfiest and votes there.

This sounds like a very passive approach and does not match what I've heard others say about them.

I mean I guess the way I describe it is a little dry.

I’m not really sure where this line of questioning is trying to go. Can you just say what you want to say instead of dancing around it and answer my original question?

Why is my asking AM for her opinion “weird” and “Potentially outting”?

Because I wonder if the intensity that AM is known for sometimes ends up on townies, and if your asking AM didn't have any agenda attached.

I asked her because she’s a smart savvy player and her opinion matters to me, and considering I’m villager reading her, and Dyachei has village read her (Dyachei who has never been wrong on their read of AM in like 7+ years), I can trust that it’s an honest read from a villager (outside of a AM/Dyachei W/W world, which I don’t think is likely here).

That being said, AM is never anyone’s pit bull. She pushes people independently. She frequently wolf reads people and finds separate people to wolf read and push, separate from other peoples pushes.

I'm a pitbull. That's the animal that I asked JJJ to give me, and I got it.

You’re lookin mighty human, mr bull

[Scotty]

@santygrass you’re being weirdly quiet this game. Where are you?

I don't remember Santy posting at all except for fluffing about being village D0. Weird of him to go MIA. That's not usually his silly goose self

I might have been roughly bullshitting 95% of my reads list for animal matching purposes (and btw the children’s book will be available in Barnes and Noble in 2025) but I do actually think his random shade at me on D0 is still suspicious, especially since there hasn’t been any follow through with that fishing comment.

[Mayo the Mayo]

Regarding Miranda in general, I appreciate PSV's terminology of noob vs wolf. AM very legitimately questioned Miranda's town lean on Scottie for being based on faulty reasoning. I personally would offer that this was more noob than sus (I personally had the same gut reaction before I calmed down and realized entertaining posts are still NAI). Honestly, the only aspect of Miranda's play so far that caught my eye has been how calmly she has handled the pressure. I think this could be attributed to wolfiness, gaining experience, or generally being too busy to fight back. She is worth watching, but I would not make her a yeet priority for today, unless I found no better targets than trusting Sporty's tone read

Do you think that wolves tend to be calmer under pressure? I would expect it to be the opposite. A vanilla townie has the least to lose. Wolves, 3P, and village PR have much more on the line.

[Zenge]

You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.

I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.

Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.

I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.

I still expect an answer here.

I think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.

You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.

Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.

I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.

Get out of here with your calm and reasoning.

Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.

This isn’t “calm and reason”.

They refused to actually answer the question I was asking. They said a lot of words without saying anything of meaning.

[Mayo the Mayo]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

[Seanzie]

She analyzes the posts players make, and the gamestate as a whole, decides who she thinks is the wolfiest and votes there.

This sounds like a very passive approach and does not match what I've heard others say about them.

I mean I guess the way I describe it is a little dry.

I’m not really sure where this line of questioning is trying to go. Can you just say what you want to say instead of dancing around it and answer my original question?

Why is my asking AM for her opinion “weird” and “Potentially outting”?

Because I wonder if the intensity that AM is known for sometimes ends up on townies, and if your asking AM didn't have any agenda attached.

I asked her because she’s a smart savvy player and her opinion matters to me, and considering I’m villager reading her, and Dyachei has village read her (Dyachei who has never been wrong on their read of AM in like 7+ years), I can trust that it’s an honest read from a villager (outside of a AM/Dyachei W/W world, which I don’t think is likely here).

That being said, AM is never anyone’s pit bull. She pushes people independently. She frequently wolf reads people and finds separate people to wolf read and push, separate from other peoples pushes.

I'm a pitbull. That's the animal that I asked JJJ to give me, and I got it.

You’re lookin mighty human, mr bull

The hair on top is right, but on bottom... I've definitely let my inner animal go.

[Seanzie]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

I'll let you get caught up, and then will field questions.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

[Mayo the Mayo]

You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.

I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.

Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.

I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.

I still expect an answer here.

I think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.

You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.

Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.

I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.

Get out of here with your calm and reasoning.

Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.

This isn’t “calm and reason”.

They refused to actually answer the question I was asking. They said a lot of words without saying anything of meaning.

Reading it as an outsider to the argument, I think they are frustrated that it's been going on for a week and a half without either you or falcon really offering anything new.

Sloonei's post reads like trying to move the thread along. I would guess that's why they aren't engaging with your questions.

If falcon were to flip wolf, it wouldn't be a great look for Sloonei, but they wouldn't be the only person viewing the argument as V/V.

[Mayo the Mayo]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

I'll let you get caught up, and then will field questions.

Then I've got good news for you!

Caught up

[Mayo the Mayo]

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

I am indeed not going to answer. This is not a productive discussion. I'll engage with you on other subjects as they come up. But I have said everything I have to say about this particular subject.

@potentialsheltervet if Falcon flips scum, there’s no way this isn’t also scum, right? Like this has been too much Falcon defense to not be W/W, right?

@Animal Midwife would you agree with this?

I don't know AM that well, but this seems like a weird, potentially telling tag.

What tale does it tell?

I'll let you get caught up, and then will field questions.

I see you answered this, but I'm still not sure I understand your point in pointing out zenge's tagging AM for a question

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Oooo, care to eleaborate?

You've been dancing around the Zenge/Falcon/Sloonei drama but have seemingly been in every camp at this point

[Zenge]

You’re right. I’m extremely dissatisfied.

I asked you for one thing. One simple thing. Give me your thoughts on the content itself.

Instead you gave another hand wavy answer that simply acknowledges the existence of the content and talk about how it was created on D1.

I wanted you to talk to me about the argument I’m making against Falcon. The specific point about what Falcon said, my rebuttal, and what you agree with or disagree with in that exchange, with specifics.

I still expect an answer here.

I think Falcon said a provocative thing about you and you were provoked. I think he made a mountain out of a molehill first, and you responded by making your out mountain out of your own molehill. Falcon's initial gripe, whether or not we believe it, was that you were not proactive enough in addressing your concerns about the early Miranda votes. Was it fair as an accusation at face value? Not really. But was it an acceptable play for early Day 1 of a crossover mafia game on Mafiathesyndicate.com? Absolutely.

You responded critically and defensively, because it was a bit of a bogus accusation. That is fair. But, in your response, I felt you took some liberties with his words, or at least presented a rather one-sided view of his position (It is not hard to see how falcon could interpret your initial concern as being simply the speed with which the votes occurred). This is reminiscent of how you have responded to me today. But, again, that is fine, because it is Day 1 of a mafia game, and we need to twist some words to get people talking.

Was I swayed by any of the arguments either of you made against one another? No. I was not. If I am to give a read, it's that both of you are town. Falcon, for playing the role of provocateur. You, because your defensive reaction turned into what looks to be a very firmly-held belief that you are onto something. But neither of those are strong reads, which is why I will again stress that I'm more interested in seeing how you respond to other things.

I do not believe there is anything meaningful to be gained by continuing this dialogue.

Get out of here with your calm and reasoning.

Also, intentionally being peacemaker and trying to stop a distracting argument feels town to me.

This isn’t “calm and reason”.

They refused to actually answer the question I was asking. They said a lot of words without saying anything of meaning.

Reading it as an outsider to the argument, I think they are frustrated that it's been going on for a week and a half without either you or falcon really offering anything new.

Sloonei's post reads like trying to move the thread along. I would guess that's why they aren't engaging with your questions.

If falcon were to flip wolf, it wouldn't be a great look for Sloonei, but they wouldn't be the only person viewing the argument as V/V.

The issue I take with Sloonei, isn’t that they’re reading it as v/v.

It’s the way in which the initial response to me pushing Falcon was an attempt to shut down any conversation by saying “that’s just how Falcon is” without ever being willing to highlight specific parts of the interaction they agreed with and disagreed with, despite repeated requests to do so. Never once.