Engaging DeMACratic mode. I am going to read all of Santy's mentions of me as per his request.
santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:46 pm
@MacDougall if you think Falcon is a wolf and want to yeet there, lmk cuz then I would probably follow you hmmyes
santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 9:49 pm
Lawpy GOAT
Tho I am sad about not playing with dya more. One potential plan was to sheep them if Villa and have no Independent thoughts whatsoever.
Guess I'll have to sheep Mac now
santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 9:51 pm
MacDougall is playing villagery btw.
The read/sentiment of wolves being more Syndicatery feels like V!Mac read to me. Plus with the ignoring falcon as a misyeet bait aswell.
santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 9:54 pm
To clarify to my fellow SDN people, this isnt my first game with Mac. We have played some, and they are a GOAT.
I think if they are town, they will be obvtown indeed, and probably be killed early.
As scum, I think they know how to kill town harmony in a way, I have present last game we played where he was such a Chaos gremlin istg.
Tho disclaimer he has a clashing playstyle still and sometimes makes crazy reads, but the overall focus is what matters?
So maybe I'm being pocketed but all of Mac vibes and reads rn strike me as villa.
santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 10:11 pm
Zenge > Tr
Psv > Tr lean
Neon > Tr
Falcon > Null, but gth Villa cuz mac says so
Sloonei > TR
So like, Dennis is the first one there that I could.kinda see being scum? But I do have a inner voice that is trippimg me into Skill Issue and points to me being pocketed by someone rn
Day 2 Santy loves Mac. Santy wants to breed Mac. Really interesting though how he invents a Mac Falcon TR to push Falcon as "misyeet bait" and "gt villa cuz mac says so". I also think the bolded bit is really interesting cuz he townread me for it on day 2 but this reads a lot like what I expect he is trying to suggest his reasons for scumreading me are now. Anyway continued...
santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 10:19 pm
Half baked readlist
Town : Neon, Sloonei, Mac, Zenge
Townlean : Lawpy, SVS , Seanzie , Falcon
Null : Mighty , Mayo, Wilg, Nate , Miranda, genny
Scumlean : SAR , Dennis , Creature
santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 10:51 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 10:43 pm
Votecount as at this post
falcon45ca 3 - (mightyrunner7, potentialsheltervet, Zenge)
Creature 2 - (santygrass, falcon45ca)
Dennis 2 - (Neon, NateTheLesser)
NateTheLesser 2 - (Marmot, MacDougall)
Marmot 1 - (sloonei)
santygrass 1 - (creature)
SARdoghandler 1 - (Seanzie)
DrWilgy 0
dyachei/lawpy 0
genny 0
Kate/Mac 0
Mayo the Mayo 0
mightyrunner7 0
miranda920 0
Neon 0
potentialsheltervet 0
Seanzie 0
S~V~S 0
Sloonei 0
Zenge 0
Sleep / No Elimination 0
Not voting (@SARdoghandler, @Dennis, @santygrass, @DrWilgy, @Lawpy, @genny, @Mayo the Mayo, @miranda920, @S~V~S)
Notes: The Falcon wagon quickly got to 3 and has not moved any further. There is probably 1 wolf between the 4 (inclusive of Falcon) based on wagonomics, rarely 0. Zenge and PSV feel quite town just on solving energy, so in my view there is a likely wolf between Falcon and Mightyrunner7.
I am not a fan of the amount of people presently not voting. We need to pressure wolves, so if you are town in there, please start voting. If you don't have any good ideas of who to vote for, start communicating with your top town and just work with them. It's okay to be wrong. It's not okay to not try.
DrWilgy has been representing a "he's an obvious town" read on Falcon since day 1 but seems untroubled by the pressure Falcon is under. I don't like this.
I can see why Miranda is town.
I dig this
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:20 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:18 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:14 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:07 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:57 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:56 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:53 am
I see your arguments and still think you are tunneling. Everyone is saying that you are hypeefocusing.
You need to have a fair assessment on how you are viewing the game, because even if falcon is a wolf I feel like you are going about it the wrong way
That’s fair.
That being said, what has Falcon done that you think deserves a village read on Falcon?
Nothing Flacon has done since has made me question if they were village. The PSV push they made for example was dark. Wolfy to the bone. Evil Tuna=Rotten to the Albacore
All syndicaters and people who know him.more than you are saying that they are town.
Only people voting him is people that doesnt know them as much. That is enough for me to think that wagon is probably a miss
I don’t think that’s fair. I think there’s been a lot of chatter from Syndicate players who said that Falcon was definitely off. They were just shy about committing to a vote there.
I want to emphasize that these Syndicate player reads of “Yeah Falcon is really off, this isn’t Village Falcon at all” came during the back and forth he was having with me.
Now that’s settled a bit, but obviously in the face of that pressure any wolf would adjust their play. But the reads from Syndicate players when things were going down, were largely “Falcon is being weird, I don’t think this is Village!Falcon, I just don’t want to vote there”.
This is why I am not following you.
You are doing a lot of stretching here to dismiss the people confidently reading falcon as town
If you’re talking about Sloonei I think that’s paired, and I’m not the only one. Lawpy sees what I was seeing with Sloonei defending Falcon.
And people who have “defended Falcon” otherwise didn’t provide strong village reads IN THE MOMENT.
The majority of reads from Syndicate people in the moment were that Falcon was absolutely 100% scum, they just didn’t want to vote there.
Sloonei, Macdougall (V confident town of mine) , tuutuu.
I think SVS also but not quite sure.
That for sure is enough to me.
Time.To.Reassess.
Get out of your W!Falcon world, you have been staring at them for far too long and its making you blind to the rest of the game
Wow, Sloonei, Mac Tutuu top town and I even got brackets. Jeez. I must have been soooooOoOooOo townie.
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:28 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:24 am
I’ve been reassessing with every single post Falcon makes. I’m not wrong Santy. There’s no reason to give Falcon a villager read.
Some people can be wrong about how they’re reading Falcon. That’s fine. It’s normal and to be expected. But not a single one of the people you mentioned actually made a strong village case for Falcon.
They simply dismissed my case and gave a village read. None of them actually ISOd Falcon, pulled quotes and laid out a strong case for why Falcon is lock town.
Because they can’t.
Consider this: That person being wrong might be you.
None of the people voting with you made a case on why Falcon is scum either, they are just blind sheeps banking on your read.
I think Mac gave good reasoning. Dennis also explained it a bit. Tuutuu is clearly ISOing people and saying their reads.
I see work and insights being done on why Falcon is town from people that know him .
And other than you tunneling, I see none of that in the falcon wagon which you are calling pure
hOMG. This is some pretty flagrant Falcon defense here and he's again saying i gave good reasoning, which we have since deduced I in fact never did so Santy literally invented the idea that I townread Falcon to shield Falcon. Naughty Santy.
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:24 pm
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:28 pm
I feel like there’s a lot of resistance to zenges push on falcons
Santy at least is approaching from a pretty strongly village trajectory by highlighting the need to reassess in the event Zenges is wrong and looking for other wolves that don’t depend primarily on falcons being a wolf
Santy is probably a wolf because Santy is being sanctimonious and belabouring all the stuff he can that is "town 101" when as town he leaves all that shit behind and just goes ham on reads. Net outcome is town Santy gets heavily sussed and wolf Santy gets heavily townread.
Someday you'll learn to read me correctly.
Today is still not that day
Aaand this is where I started pushing him. See how Santy "dismiss it and step on my read instead of trying to find why I was doing that or seeing eye to eye with me". Interesting how he did that to me but then scumread me for doing it to him. Interesting.
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:44 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:43 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:30 pm
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:25 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:18 pm
Mafia
Hmm
Do you therefore think Zenges tunnel on Falcons is justified after all?
Because it’s looking like you’re disagreeing with Zenges tunnel on Falcons early posts but found Falcons’s later behavior to be problematic independent of the Zenges tunnel, and i’m trying to see if i understood correctly
I never thought Zenge should stop pushing Falcon. All I ever tried to say on Day 1 was that the things Zenge objected to are not out of the ordinary for Falcon. This does not mean those things need to mean that Falcon is town. Just that I would not suspect him on the basis of those things.
After looking at Falcon's posts in more depth, I think there are reasons to be concerned about him. This still does not mean I have him as lock mafia. But I have questions and would like answers.
Similarly I actually read Falcon prior to even realising there was some Zenge/Falcon Mexican standoff occurring and found Falcon scummy because most of his early pushes were overemphasis on things that are NAI. I find Falcon's usual pressure targets to be more palatable than here.
Noted
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:58 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:57 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:24 pm
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:28 pm
I feel like there’s a lot of resistance to zenges push on falcons
Santy at least is approaching from a pretty strongly village trajectory by highlighting the need to reassess in the event Zenges is wrong and looking for other wolves that don’t depend primarily on falcons being a wolf
Santy is probably a wolf because Santy is being sanctimonious and belabouring all the stuff he can that is "town 101" when as town he leaves all that shit behind and just goes ham on reads. Net outcome is town Santy gets heavily sussed and wolf Santy gets heavily townread.
Someday you'll learn to read me correctly.
Today is still not that day
Posts like this don't help.
I know but I still do them anyways because I know I'm right
Totally not dismissive.
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:08 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:06 pm
Current reads no order
Town
Mayo
Miranda
Sloonei
Tutuu
SVS
Santy
Zenge
Wolves
Creature
Marmot
Falcon
PSV
Where would you put Dennis?
Anyway for some reason I've now put him back into town and he's asking me for a Dennis read. Cool.
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:59 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:26 am
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:48 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:17 pm
@NateTheLesser I would like to know how you feel abouts slots other than Dennis, particularly the likes of Falcon, Marmot, Creature and Mightyrunner7.
I'll be back later, I expect receipts.
Mighty isn't outside of his town meta, his posts always read as carefully crafted. In the last game when he was wolfing I correctly called him out on day one, because he had a habit of picking apart other people's reads without actually offering his own perspective. I haven't seen him do the same thing here. He's relatively new and that's a "tell" that can be fixed, but I lean him town for now. The only thing that gives me pause is his Scotty vote looks bad, both in the wagon position and that his reasoning was pretty much just echoing other people's "role fishing" sus.
Creature is POE because there's no reason for him not to be, I wasn't interested in him yesterday because in my other Syndicate game he low-posted as town so the "volume tell" wasn't convincing for me. But his only votes prior to Scotty were a naked 2nd vote on miranda and a naked 2nd vote on me. He said his miranda vote was because he was least impressed by her on that page, but her only recent content was a day 0 test vote. And that's been about the extent of his solving energy.
Marmot was mostly missing, I remember an early wolf lean of Dennis and then EOD. I didn't really vibe with Marmot's EOD reads, for one thing they were wolfreading me and have carried that into today, and I know that's incorrect. But they were also speculating a Scotty/Santy world, which I thought would be odd positioning to take if they knew Scotty would flip town. But it could have also been a way to place Scotty in a plausible wolf team to justify a vote (which is what Marmot did shortly after).
Falcon/Zenge I have the most turbulence around. I've seen town Zenge make correct pushes that were laser-focused that I didn't understand
at all, so I pay attention when he gets this locked in even if I don't completely get it. And I thought falcon was sketchy early on. But the way Z's pushed it has been really twisty, especially his interaction with other people about it when they disagree. And on falcon's end I know he has a scummy playstyle in general, he was misyeeted in the other game I played here. If they were both scum but different factions it'd explain everything tbh
Either this person is the best mafia player I've ever met or they're town. And maybe it's both.
This
Santy lazily sheeps my Nate townread. Hmmm.
So far all I am seeing is Santy just viewing me as the obvious town I am while I solve the game. God damn I must have done something egregious to get myself out of being his lock top town.
santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:22 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:20 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:18 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:18 pm
Hmmmm
[VOTE:
Miranda] aubergine
Nevermind this feels better
Why?
Because they've been less talked about. And I don't know how Dennis plays, and I know miranda a little more and they havent hit a single town note for me yet, so more worrysome
They haven't hit a single town note for you?
How much of their play have you read?
I didn't read much of D1 , but almost all of D2
More of good old me holding Santy accountable while he makes reads/votes that are poorly explained.
santygrass wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:58 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:41 pm
I am removing Santygrass from my towncore also.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:42 pm
@Mayo the Mayo my towncore is tiny, it's literally just you right now. So uh, welcome to the brotherhood. Outline your issues with Lawpy so we can get aligned on that and then move on to the next slot to solve.
Not wanting to be ONGussy , but I am for sure less certain now that Mac is town.
Like, nnexplaines removal of a townread (less willing to form a town block) , to then a pockety post to mayo . Gives me the worries.
I'll mull it over.
Mayo is town tho. Lawpy sussing there is concerning.
Now, to sleep
Okay now the good stuff. Okay let me read through this and make a new post.