Summer Sh*t Day 5

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I have repeatedly said I'm not gonna vote spf and they are my top town

[potentialsheltervet]

I have repeatedly said I'm not gonna vote spf and they are my top town

...have you?
Genuine question.

[potentialsheltervet]

@tedxtr hey. Where's your head right now?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I have repeatedly said I'm not gonna vote spf and they are my top town

...have you?
Genuine question.

Yep. I won't vote spf at all. I do not care.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

However 2 things

1. Something about that EoD felt off on a vibes level can't tell if I don't like spfs eod or if I just think sig is cleared off it but I'm leaning towards sig is just not a wolf and wolfs were chilling.

Pyxxy was clearly there but barely posting to this game is honestly just GGs

2. SPF is 2000% not clear just because of the Pyx flip that's 1000% fakeable and SPF is 5000% good enough to realize that

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'm clearing spf off like 5 other things and the fact they always self resolve here

[tedxtr]

@tedxtr hey. Where's your head right now?

at the time of this post, resting on the pillow

will be on later. idk, if sig was a wolf today then my bad, but otherwise we had v/v wagons

it is incredibly easy to fake not having TMI with the flip thing so anybody saying anyone is cleared off it is incorrect. don't disregard 4 dayphases of gameposts for some posting at EoD when hosts messed with flavor

the easy resolve is we kill spf today as we'd have fulfilled kate's list either way (killing pyxxy was kate's second choice)

if psv is a wolf then i'm washing my hands of any and all responsibility as i'd tunneled them for 3 dayphases iirc and nobody interacted with my points and i'd say disregard them too

idk if sig can be a wolf tho it's exponentially easier for him to be posting that way having afk'd d1, still i think his posting as a wolf is ~typically obvious and im not seeing it here, kate hasn't either, but this is off live posting feels without any isoing so i'll re-read at some point

[tedxtr]

@sig i do have one question, a common theme in your iso is tinfoiling spf and keep bringing her name up every day phase saying she should die later in the game, but you've never expressed your reason of concerns that go along with that statement

can you say why you keep re-iterating it? have you spotted anything off about her? or some other reason?

[potentialsheltervet]

However 2 things

1. Something about that EoD felt off on a vibes level can't tell if I don't like spfs eod or if I just think sig is cleared off it but I'm leaning towards sig is just not a wolf and wolfs were chilling.

Pyxxy was clearly there but barely posting to this game is honestly just GGs

2. SPF is 2000% not clear just because of the Pyx flip that's 1000% fakeable and SPF is 5000% good enough to realize that

But who are you actually scum reading? I'm not SRing SPF, though point 2 is something that's occurred to me. Are you still thinking Dennis is scummy?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

However 2 things

1. Something about that EoD felt off on a vibes level can't tell if I don't like spfs eod or if I just think sig is cleared off it but I'm leaning towards sig is just not a wolf and wolfs were chilling.

Pyxxy was clearly there but barely posting to this game is honestly just GGs

2. SPF is 2000% not clear just because of the Pyx flip that's 1000% fakeable and SPF is 5000% good enough to realize that

But who are you actually scum reading? I'm not SRing SPF, though point 2 is something that's occurred to me. Are you still thinking Dennis is scummy?

*insert anime sip gif*

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Im clearing sig and SPF so like probably everyone else

[tedxtr]

can't do big posts, i've read 50% of sig's iso closely and the other sparsely

but i'm ~pretty confident he wouldn't be able to post the way he's doing as a wolf. i haven't played a ton with him, but when he was a wolf, i think he had pretty generically wolfy posts.

the sudden confidence traction on dennis looks good to me and i buy that he believes it, his PoE is also looking good. i kinda think his spf angle is also believable

he has posts that show a little more depth than wolves would care to point out, due to how hard it would be to prove you having a genuine stance on them, such as

I'm going to start with the 2 voting me. You seem civ and solving.

Psv doesn't know me, so her vote could simply be misplaced (combined with my law activity).

Seanzie concerns me the most, as he knows my play at least a bit better than camilla and psv and I'm surprised he would put a vote on me this early. I'm gonna start by looking at his iso.

All lawyers are soulless, Kate is a lawyer, Therefore kate is soulless.

Now the question is are soulless people mafia.

this is an additional line that shows a little to me that he lacks TMI

The Dennis debate really comes down to what do we think Sean/Falcon would tell him to do in the situation that they were in?

Dennis alone wouldn't have made the decision to bus his teammates, but if they determined it was the smart move to make he'd have followed their advice.

this whole angle i'm just buying as genuine and lack of TMI. wolves don't go this far to ask questions in solving because they have the answers already, i view it as a tough post to make both because a wolf has TMI and because it's a tough angle to hold onto as a wolf

just seems like a villager's wheels spinning in his head

sig's probably one of my clears, the second might be psv but really a lot of it is spite so i can say "welp, said so" in the case it's wrong lol

[tedxtr]

like, it's pretty obvious dennis' alignment doesn't come down to that, he has a ton of other actions too

but the way he harps on that is

1) tough for a wolf to do imo
2) it's a previous buildup from his dennis read and the sudden rising confidence on it i'm buying as a genuine progression

Dennis from my xp will bus and will panic last minute especially if his teammates aren't around for him to bounce ideas off of.

really buying it as a genuine progression the way he builds upon it and comes back to it

[tedxtr]

Im clearing sig and SPF so like probably everyone else

this is pretty unbelievable to me on a surface level

sig i get, but having that confidence on spf and not narrowing down on 2 people at least seems weird to me.

[tedxtr]

sig / psv are the clears fmpov

kill spf and then reconsider if wrong

[tedxtr]

kinda sucks cuz i don't really wolfread spf, didn't have the chance to re-read her

but she'll definitely die f3 if she's a villa and having her give a legacy at f5 and following her last pick at a wolf seems the best choice, she should be closer than anyone here as we'd flipped her best guess at a wolf

if it's not her then we have to figure out who the wolf is in dennis / neon probably.

if it's psv it'll be cathartic, but the bridge was burnt

[Dennis]

ooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo I'm a scary poltergeist who ghosted this game

We flipped pyxxy, which is fair I guess. Do we have a ss of the final poll or no

Sig - my push on you was solely that you were not present at all. By D4 you had like 3 posts in total so like what am I meant to do, sit there and let the idea that it could literally just be you fester until limlo, or kill you? And it looks like you misinterpreted that as I thought you being silent was scummy, which is not what I meant. Either way you've started saying things now so it's literally whatever to me

[Dennis]

Hmm this flavor poll isn't food

meh

mmmm sumblok

[Roxy]

What a way to go!




After the burn that pyxxy had gotten everyone thought it would be best to avoid splints and Roxy's way of "relaxing", no one could handle hanging with them.

sig had bought more booze and grabbed the rum and made a pitcher of Mojitos. They were made better by using fresh picked wild mint.
Tedxtr could not get enough.
After a couple of hours Neon was so amazed at how quickly he was going through pitchers. staypostivefriend said "It's like he has a thirst that cannot be quenched!" They and Neon walked away laughing their butts off.
potentialsheltervet and Dennis tried to corral him as best they could but he wanted no help.

He stumbled outside and somehow managed to plop face first in to the hammock. He promptly passed out snoring so loud that Roxy turned up the music while splints just shut the door of the cabin.

Tedxtr woke up several hours later and had so many mosquito bites that he could not think of anything else but scratching where he itched, and he itched everywhere.
While scratching his butt he decided to just go home as he was miserable with bites.

Tedxtr is deaded he was Cold Adult Beverages.

[potentialsheltervet]

Godspeed Ted.

[staypositivefriend]

okay

[staypositivefriend]

i'm not sure if ted makes that kill in a world where sig is mafia?

[staypositivefriend]

i'm not sure if ted makes that kill in a world where sig is mafia?

phrased that wrong lol

im not sure if sig makes that kill in a world where he's mafia, since ted was one of his main defenders

[staypositivefriend]

anyway, i don't mind dying today because it's optimal for the gamestate and i would really rather not be taken to the f3

gonna spend the time i do have re-reading the game, mostly. feel free to ping me if you wanna discuss anything specific

[potentialsheltervet]

anyway, i don't mind dying today because it's optimal for the gamestate and i would really rather not be taken to the f3

gonna spend the time i do have re-reading the game, mostly. feel free to ping me if you wanna discuss anything specific

I hate this honestly
If you're town a miselim is really the last thing we need right now.
I don't want to be in F3 either but I'm not just gonna say "okay, gobble me up!"

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm not rereading, but I'm... Back on neon. Dennis doesn't feel right, don't think it's sig, don't think it's SPF.
Getting reads from Neon feels like pulling teeth.

[staypositivefriend]

anyway, i don't mind dying today because it's optimal for the gamestate and i would really rather not be taken to the f3

gonna spend the time i do have re-reading the game, mostly. feel free to ping me if you wanna discuss anything specific

I hate this honestly
If you're town a miselim is really the last thing we need right now.
I don't want to be in F3 either but I'm not just gonna say "okay, gobble me up!"

the reality of the situation is that two of the nightkilled players have died with their legacies as: "kill SPF" and if i get taken to a f3, it's going to be very difficult for anyone who is town with me to overcome the strength of those legacies

it's not about "not wanting to be in f3", it's about feeling like i would probably die every time in a f3 and that it is probably the safer option to just kill me today and then strongly consider the legacy read that i give for the f3

i know that it sucks, but that's where i'm at

[potentialsheltervet]

anyway, i don't mind dying today because it's optimal for the gamestate and i would really rather not be taken to the f3

gonna spend the time i do have re-reading the game, mostly. feel free to ping me if you wanna discuss anything specific

I hate this honestly
If you're town a miselim is really the last thing we need right now.
I don't want to be in F3 either but I'm not just gonna say "okay, gobble me up!"

the reality of the situation is that two of the nightkilled players have died with their legacies as: "kill SPF" and if i get taken to a f3, it's going to be very difficult for anyone who is town with me to overcome the strength of those legacies

it's not about "not wanting to be in f3", it's about feeling like i would probably die every time in a f3 and that it is probably the safer option to just kill me today and then strongly consider the legacy read that i give for the f3

i know that it sucks, but that's where i'm at

Well, I'm not really scum reading you. So I'd rather vote people that I think could actually be scum.

[Dennis]

I'm not rereading, but I'm... Back on neon. Dennis doesn't feel right, don't think it's sig, don't think it's SPF.
Getting reads from Neon feels like pulling teeth.

Elaborate on me not feeling right please

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm not rereading, but I'm... Back on neon. Dennis doesn't feel right, don't think it's sig, don't think it's SPF.
Getting reads from Neon feels like pulling teeth.

Elaborate on me not feeling right please

You don't feel right as the last mafia.
That's the thing. Process of elimination leaves me with Neon but no one else concurs so that means either I have something or I'm just tunneling a townie.

[potentialsheltervet]

well
[VOTE: Neon ] aubergine

[potentialsheltervet]

I would love if we could get some more discussion going.
Can everyone list their POE?
Can everyone list the people/person they would not vote today?

[Dennis]

I would love if we could get some more discussion going.
Can everyone list their POE?
Can everyone list the people/person they would not vote today?

My list is looking somehting like

psv
spf

sig
neon

I have started really vibing with your constant efforts of getting us up and going. watch me get pocketed god that would be so funny

SPF, I dunno why. I feel like she should be lower honestly, I think I'm just seeing a ton of words and going "yup!"

Sig is tunnelled on me, and being tunnelled on a town this close to limlo isn't very towny, but I kinda wanna read more on him talking about other people before I make up my mind

Neon I feel like I've cleared off of falcon's treatment for too long, but this is the EXACT type of situation in which I would push neon and lose the game so that alone is making me not really want to kill neon. So I guess it's more like

psv
neon

sig
spf

[staypositivefriend]

neon

-to put it as simply as possible, it does not feel to me like neon had TMI of falcon’s alignment. she went out of her way to defend him and call him a likely town flip, even at a point when falcon had seemed to have given up on saving himself

there is no real strategic incentive that i can see for neon defending falcon in the way that she did, and i think that her defense of falcon particularly makes sense in the context of falcon seeming to play in a way that was intended to manipulate neon’s meta on him (ie: the super pockety posts he made toward her, and the way neon expressed the sentiment that falcon might not be so bold as to try to pocket her 2 games in a row)

-the specific way that neon defended falcon aligns with the exact meta that ive seen in the last 2 games ive played with her (ie: neon has a tendency to passionately defend players she thinks are being treated/pushed unfairly), and idk if she would go out of her way to replicate this meta as a wolf unless her goal was to pocket just specifically me

-p#102 from seanzie (the post where seanzie is like: “i believe that SPF is telling the truth about mafia, and i think you do too”) is a weird post to make toward your own partner, because it feels a bit …like gaslighting in a sense? the wording of the post comes off as rather manipulative and i struggle to understand what the train of thought behind that post was if seanzie/neon were W/W, whereas it’s easy for me to see why seanzie would make that post if neon is town and he wanted to convince her that i’m mafia

-the way falcon talked about neon on p#271, p#275, and p#337 (and other posts, but those feel like the big ones to me) all feel a bit like TMI of her alignment

hard to imagine falcon going out of his way to hard townread his partner in the early stages of the game, but easy to imagine falcon trying to pocket neon in the early stages of the game by talking about how towny she is

-the way falcon sheeped neon on psv felt a bit like a wolf piggybacking off of a villagers incorrect push as opposed to a wolf sheeping another wolf

-super small point, but i like that neon essentially gave a non-answer on p#75 when she was asked to explain her townread on falcon, (Ie: “vibes”), when wolves who are TRing their partners or trying to powerwolf tend to be a bit more overly explanatory, in my experience

@potentialsheltervet - if you want me to get to a world where neon is mafia, i would really like you to address these points, please

in particular, if neon is mafia, then my questions are:

1. what was her plan to survive until the endgame and win? didn't her defense of falcon accomplish the opposite?

2. why did falcon interact with her in a way that looks obviously associated if they were W/W and he knew he was going to die soon? wouldn't falcon be more likely to distance?

[staypositivefriend]

now, the thing is, i agree that neon hasn't been particularly substantive or communicative over the last two(ish) dayphases, but i'm not sure i consider this to be alignment indicative overall

like yes, maybe she does look less towny in the short term, but thinking about the game overall, i really struggle to get to her being mafia

[staypositivefriend]

if i am in fact clearing neon, that does leave me with a dilemma, though

because when i saw that pyxxy was town, my first impression (other than being annoyed because i thought the game was about to end) was just: "ah okay, well it's probably just sig then, and i should have let him die instead"

but the main thing that gives me hesitation here is that ted sounded quite confident that sig was town before he died, and he was pretty insistent that he is usually a lot more obvious as mafia than he has been in this game

so while my overall reasons to townread sig might be the worst out of all my other townreads, it's kind of hard to imagine why he would shoot himself in the foot by killing one of his biggest defenders

but anyway, the possibilities fmpov right now are:

1. sig is mafia
2. i misread one of dennis and PSV, and they are mafia (neon could be included here too but i really just believe that she's clear)

[staypositivefriend]

if sig is mafia, why does he kill ted? why does he hard push on falcon early into d2 before falcon was even a consensus scumread?

if psv is mafia, why does she go out of her way to try to prevent me from dying when i could be an easy miselimination from her pov? (unless she's specifically trying to keep me alive for 3 way so that i will vote with her i guess)

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

[staypositivefriend]

okay i know how hedgy all of this sounds, but again, being transparent:

i think that i will die today. i think that's fine.

i think that before i die, i want to leave a legacy final wolfread that i feel confident about the rest of you sheeping.

i think that this is most likely going to come down between sig and dennis, and i'm just trying to decide which one i feel comfortable committing to.

[potentialsheltervet]

neon

-to put it as simply as possible, it does not feel to me like neon had TMI of falcon’s alignment. she went out of her way to defend him and call him a likely town flip, even at a point when falcon had seemed to have given up on saving himself

there is no real strategic incentive that i can see for neon defending falcon in the way that she did, and i think that her defense of falcon particularly makes sense in the context of falcon seeming to play in a way that was intended to manipulate neon’s meta on him (ie: the super pockety posts he made toward her, and the way neon expressed the sentiment that falcon might not be so bold as to try to pocket her 2 games in a row)

-the specific way that neon defended falcon aligns with the exact meta that ive seen in the last 2 games ive played with her (ie: neon has a tendency to passionately defend players she thinks are being treated/pushed unfairly), and idk if she would go out of her way to replicate this meta as a wolf unless her goal was to pocket just specifically me

-p#102 from seanzie (the post where seanzie is like: “i believe that SPF is telling the truth about mafia, and i think you do too”) is a weird post to make toward your own partner, because it feels a bit …like gaslighting in a sense? the wording of the post comes off as rather manipulative and i struggle to understand what the train of thought behind that post was if seanzie/neon were W/W, whereas it’s easy for me to see why seanzie would make that post if neon is town and he wanted to convince her that i’m mafia

-the way falcon talked about neon on p#271, p#275, and p#337 (and other posts, but those feel like the big ones to me) all feel a bit like TMI of her alignment

hard to imagine falcon going out of his way to hard townread his partner in the early stages of the game, but easy to imagine falcon trying to pocket neon in the early stages of the game by talking about how towny she is

-the way falcon sheeped neon on psv felt a bit like a wolf piggybacking off of a villagers incorrect push as opposed to a wolf sheeping another wolf

-super small point, but i like that neon essentially gave a non-answer on p#75 when she was asked to explain her townread on falcon, (Ie: “vibes”), when wolves who are TRing their partners or trying to powerwolf tend to be a bit more overly explanatory, in my experience

@potentialsheltervet - if you want me to get to a world where neon is mafia, i would really like you to address these points, please

in particular, if neon is mafia, then my questions are:

1. what was her plan to survive until the endgame and win? didn't her defense of falcon accomplish the opposite?

2. why did falcon interact with her in a way that looks obviously associated if they were W/W and he knew he was going to die soon? wouldn't falcon be more likely to distance?

I guess my concern is everyone is discussing Neon's meta for bussing. What if she just... did something different? What a wolf may be most likely to do isn't always what winds up happening. Sometimes knowing your meta and intentionally flipping it to your advantage is the way to survive.

[staypositivefriend]

but it's not a meta read, it's just a basic strategy read

neon, as mafia, would know that falcon is dying soon

neon, as mafia, would know that she would need to be the one to solo endgame as a wolf

why does neon, in this position, aggressively defend falcon and go out of his way to call him town?

it has nothing to do with meta and everything to do with strategy

[potentialsheltervet]

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

Hmm, was he townreading you previously? If so that's a bit sus.
I think overall my reads are:
SPF
sig
Dennis
Neon

But I could go either way on voting those last two.

[potentialsheltervet]

but it's not a meta read, it's just a basic strategy read

neon, as mafia, would know that falcon is dying soon

neon, as mafia, would know that she would need to be the one to solo endgame as a wolf

why does neon, in this position, aggressively defend falcon and go out of his way to call him town?

it has nothing to do with meta and everything to do with strategy

The strategy is WIFOM.
Look, I'm not saying it's perfect or cut and dry. I'm not super confident that's the solve. But I feel better voting Neon than I do other people right now.

[potentialsheltervet]

I would also say my personal strategy is fuck around and find out so the idea someone else could be doing the same is never far from my mind.

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm not fully opposed to chopping Dennis today if that will save my stronger townread SPF. I'd like to feel more confident.
@sig you're convinced Dennis is in his scum meta. What would you say to those on the fence?

[staypositivefriend]

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

Hmm, was he townreading you previously? If so that's a bit sus.
I think overall my reads are:
SPF
sig
Dennis
Neon

But I could go either way on voting those last two.

yeah i mean, these are the most recent things dennis said about me before he put me at the bottom of his list:

I have been townreading SPF for more or less the entire game, and I don't think Kate's case was super compelling because I think she misunderstood what spf was saying. So while you are following consensus and that's whatever, I don't think it's really alignment indicative cause you're new, I have my own reasons to disagree

probably just gonna afk until the night kill

not sure there's much for us to be gained here

sorry for the rand dennis but you know I gotta do it to ya

I guess maybe the one discussion to have it, do we actually just sheep Kate now? for realsies?

In a world where spf is mafia, I 1. Look like an ABSOLUTE doofus and 2. Have been pocketed so hard and I don't want to accept that

so, dennis suddenly saying:

SPF, I dunno why. I feel like she should be lower honestly, I think I'm just seeing a ton of words and going "yup!"

...is hard for me to swallow. because he made it very clear that his townread on me was based on specific reasons, and i don't buy that he suddenly "doesn't know why" he townreads me

[staypositivefriend]

but it's not a meta read, it's just a basic strategy read

neon, as mafia, would know that falcon is dying soon

neon, as mafia, would know that she would need to be the one to solo endgame as a wolf

why does neon, in this position, aggressively defend falcon and go out of his way to call him town?

it has nothing to do with meta and everything to do with strategy

The strategy is WIFOM.
Look, I'm not saying it's perfect or cut and dry. I'm not super confident that's the solve. But I feel better voting Neon than I do other people right now.

yeah i mean, at the end of the day, any strategy can just boil down to "WIFOM"

i just dont see a specific reason to think that neon made a WIFOM play as a wolf, and the reasons that i have to townread her outweigh my reasons to wolfread her

if you have specific reasons to wolfread her, then im willing to listen

[potentialsheltervet]

Hmm
[VOTE: Dennis ] aubergine

[potentialsheltervet]

This being a world in which he killed his mother and was in a tie that killed his father. Oh the humanity.

[staypositivefriend]

dennis's character arc in this game is basically just a Shakespeare play

[Dennis]

if sig is mafia, why does he kill ted? why does he hard push on falcon early into d2 before falcon was even a consensus scumread?

if psv is mafia, why does she go out of her way to try to prevent me from dying when i could be an easy miselimination from her pov? (unless she's specifically trying to keep me alive for 3 way so that i will vote with her i guess)

dennis positioning me at the bottom of his readslist today after seeming p confident i was town in prior phases does have me paranoid that he's just setting himself up to eliminate me and then win in the f3 but

I rarely ever order readlists

It's like, a lot of have people said you're scum but I genuinely don't understand why

Like I don't think I've seen a case, but I can't exactly ignore the ghosts of the past yelling that you're bad