The Syndicate 2014 Game of Champions [ENDGAME]

[S~V~S]

Why? Cause I voted for 2 civvies?

[FZ.]

Sorry, llama Not going to say RIP because I hate when people wrongfully lynch me and then just go on like it's nothing, because it annoys the hell out of me (and yeah, I know, it's just a game). I apologize. I shouldn't have voted for you when I wasn't feeling that sure, but I didn't like the votes on Made.
To be honest, I think that if like I believe Made is a civ, then there's more chance to find baddies on his list of voters because it was easier to excuse a vote for him. I get why no one wants to give the wand to those on llama's lynch, but we all make mistakes.

I want to give the wand to TH, but I'm hesitant. I felt his actions were genuine last day, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about this a little more

What do you think of me? I have two votes already. TH does not. TH also is one of those votes.

Not sure yet. It's a possibility. The post below the one I quoted where you go after Juliets like that reminds me of how you went after me in that game (where I was a civ, but you truly believed it), so you seem more civvie like.

Can I ask a general question? Out of all the players here, who would you all say is the best at sniffing out baddies?

[Roxy]

DH your push about how Made was saved is moot as Made has not been proven to even be a civ unless you know something the rest don't. It feels like you are trying to push discussion to llama voters so we do not discuss other possible suspects. Now you go on to say that out of everyone SVS seems to be the safest civvie bet. (a llama voter)
Hope you are wearing a saddle for all the fence riding you are doing.

[zeek]

Can I ask a general question? Out of all the players here, who would you all say is the best at sniffing out baddies?

I've only played a couple of games here but MP is good when he's on the up-and-up (but that's difficult to tell).

[DharmaHelper]

Why? Cause I voted for 2 civvies?

Unless you're bullshitting about some things you've said, which with FoB would be foolish, I trust you for now.

My point with the Llama/Made thing btw, for anyone curious is this:

I'm not at all advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I understand civs lynch civs all the time. What I'm saying is this:

BECAUSE I think Made is bad,
BECAUSE the vote was so close
BECAUSE the case on llama seemed to me, not really above board
BECAUSE It would make sense for at lease one teammate to try and save Made
BECAUSE I know made is an unruly, wild player

In my mind, a scenario is possible where Made tried to pull something with this vote being forced thing. What his goal was, I don't know. But I would not put it past him to try something, especially since he referenced a conversation he and I had about lying to people in mafia and the best ways to do that, and the benefits of doing it certain ways.

I can see Made trying to test the waters, putting that discussion into practice, and then having people on his team who took issue with that. Made is someone in my estimation that wouldn't give a big red fuck, and would do it anyway though.

Linki @ Roxy - I think I just covered most of what your post just brought up. Again, SVS has said some things that lead me to believe out of all the llama voters at least she is ok. Baby/Bathwater scenario.

I don't understand everyone saying "We don't know Made is civ/bad so how can he have been saved." Again, most of us don't know anything. The evidence however, is there to suggest it. I'm following the evidence to my conclusion, not using my conclusion to look for evidence.

Of course we don't know Mades allignment, because he wasn't lynched. LLama, a civvie, was lynched.

[FZ.]

Sorry, llama Not going to say RIP because I hate when people wrongfully lynch me and then just go on like it's nothing, because it annoys the hell out of me (and yeah, I know, it's just a game). I apologize. I shouldn't have voted for you when I wasn't feeling that sure, but I didn't like the votes on Made.
To be honest, I think that if like I believe Made is a civ, then there's more chance to find baddies on his list of voters because it was easier to excuse a vote for him. I get why no one wants to give the wand to those on llama's lynch, but we all make mistakes.

I want to give the wand to TH, but I'm hesitant. I felt his actions were genuine last day, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about this a little more

Yeah this'll go ahead and put you on the tippy top of my list.

"I'm really sorry we lynched a civvie guys, but we all make mistakes, right? Lets not look at the people who lynched a civvie and instead look waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here."

Nah.

So the fact I say we all make mistakes makes me a baddie. Wow, you got me. And just for the record, I didn't say "I'm sorry we lynched a civ but we all make mistakes" in the same sentence. Unlike most people who lynch a civ and just accuse the lynched person of acting like a baddie to excuse their mistake, I actually acknowledged the fact that I was stupid to vote like that. And I did it because I hate it when I'm lynched and everyone tries to make themselves feel better by saying I was acting like a baddie instead of recognizing their own mistakes.
That said, I think not trusting all the people who were on that lynch is stupid because clearly, civvies make mistakes. Not to mention, I still believe Made is a civ, which is basically why I voted llama.

@linki: What Roxy just said now about DH maybe knowing something the rest of us don't, made me think that maybe he had something to do with what happened to Made at night. If he was responsible for it, he may have information we don't. But I have no idea what that would mean about his alignment. Anyone?

[Roxy]

Sorry, llama Not going to say RIP because I hate when people wrongfully lynch me and then just go on like it's nothing, because it annoys the hell out of me (and yeah, I know, it's just a game). I apologize. I shouldn't have voted for you when I wasn't feeling that sure, but I didn't like the votes on Made.
To be honest, I think that if like I believe Made is a civ, then there's more chance to find baddies on his list of voters because it was easier to excuse a vote for him. I get why no one wants to give the wand to those on llama's lynch, but we all make mistakes.

I want to give the wand to TH, but I'm hesitant. I felt his actions were genuine last day, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about this a little more

What do you think of me? I have two votes already. TH does not. TH also is one of those votes.

Not sure yet. It's a possibility. The post below the one I quoted where you go after Juliets like that reminds me of how you went after me in that game (where I was a civ, but you truly believed it), so you seem more civvie like.

Can I ask a general question? Out of all the players here, who would you all say is the best at sniffing out baddies?

You yourself can be a really good baddie hunter but other times (like last game on KSite) you are horrible at hunting baddies.
I think most people are the same as you and I. Sometimes you're good other times not.

I am not sure how I feel about you quite yet.

[DharmaHelper]

Sorry, llama Not going to say RIP because I hate when people wrongfully lynch me and then just go on like it's nothing, because it annoys the hell out of me (and yeah, I know, it's just a game). I apologize. I shouldn't have voted for you when I wasn't feeling that sure, but I didn't like the votes on Made.
To be honest, I think that if like I believe Made is a civ, then there's more chance to find baddies on his list of voters because it was easier to excuse a vote for him. I get why no one wants to give the wand to those on llama's lynch, but we all make mistakes.

I want to give the wand to TH, but I'm hesitant. I felt his actions were genuine last day, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about this a little more

Yeah this'll go ahead and put you on the tippy top of my list.

"I'm really sorry we lynched a civvie guys, but we all make mistakes, right? Lets not look at the people who lynched a civvie and instead look waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here."

Nah.

So the fact I say we all make mistakes makes me a baddie. Wow, you got me. And just for the record, I didn't say "I'm sorry we lynched a civ but we all make mistakes" in the same sentence. Unlike most people who lynch a civ and just accuse the lynched person of acting like a baddie to excuse their mistake, I actually acknowledged the fact that I was stupid to vote like that. And I did it because I hate it when I'm lynched and everyone tries to make themselves feel better by saying I was acting like a baddie instead of recognizing their own mistakes.
That said, I think not trusting all the people who were on that lynch is stupid because clearly, civvies make mistakes. Not to mention, I still believe Made is a civ, which is basically why I voted llama.

@linki: What Roxy just said now about DH maybe knowing something the rest of us don't, made me think that maybe he had something to do with what happened to Made at night. If he was responsible for it, he may have information we don't. But I have no idea what that would mean about his alignment. Anyone?

No, hold on, let me be clear:

The fact that you are playing up how sorry you are for lynching llama wrongfully, and then immediately (within the same post) deflecting attention onto Made voters, that is what makes you *suspicious*.

[Roxy]

DH what evidence is there that says Made was being saved? I thought the case against him had very little merit tbh it is the reason why my vote did not go to Made.

So what actual evidence is there that you see that leads you to your definite conclusion?

[FZ.]

Sorry, llama Not going to say RIP because I hate when people wrongfully lynch me and then just go on like it's nothing, because it annoys the hell out of me (and yeah, I know, it's just a game). I apologize. I shouldn't have voted for you when I wasn't feeling that sure, but I didn't like the votes on Made.
To be honest, I think that if like I believe Made is a civ, then there's more chance to find baddies on his list of voters because it was easier to excuse a vote for him. I get why no one wants to give the wand to those on llama's lynch, but we all make mistakes.

I want to give the wand to TH, but I'm hesitant. I felt his actions were genuine last day, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about this a little more

What do you think of me? I have two votes already. TH does not. TH also is one of those votes.

Not sure yet. It's a possibility. The post below the one I quoted where you go after Juliets like that reminds me of how you went after me in that game (where I was a civ, but you truly believed it), so you seem more civvie like.

Can I ask a general question? Out of all the players here, who would you all say is the best at sniffing out baddies?

Let me remind you that last game on K-site was a fiasco not just for me
But thanks for the answer. Was just curious, with it being the champions' game and all

You yourself can be a really good baddie hunter but other times (like last game on KSite) you are horrible at hunting baddies.
I think most people are the same as you and I. Sometimes you're good other times not.

I am not sure how I feel about you quite yet.

linki: Whatever. I wasn't deflecting attention. But the fact that I was being stupid, doesn't mean I can't be trusted. But I wouldn't give me the wand either.

And another linki: Roxy, I thought the reason why your vote didn't go on Made was because you were very set on voting llama, not because of Made himself

[FZ.]

I messed up that post

[DharmaHelper]

DH what evidence is there that says Made was being saved? I thought the case against him had very little merit tbh it is the reason why my vote did not go to Made.

So what actual evidence is there that you see that leads you to your definite conclusion?

The closeness of the llama/Made vote totals
The subtle support Made received several times
The case against llama being (in my view) a touch trumped up

[zeek]

Can we all just acknowledge how much emphasis Epi puts on game balance? Good, now lets think about how Boddy hasn't blackmailed Made, because Made could not tell us if that had happened... cool, now lets think about an unknown blackmailer whose blackmailing can be revealed. Seem fair? Seem balanced? Not in my opinion.

[DharmaHelper]

Can we all just acknowledge how much emphasis Epi puts on game balance? Good, now lets think about how Boddy hasn't blackmailed Made, because Made could not tell us if that had happened... cool, now lets think about an unknown blackmailer whose blackmailing can be revealed. Seem fair? Seem balanced? Not in my opinion.

Are you a No. 2 Pencil during Finals Week?

Cause boy you better have a damn fine point.

[FZ.]

Can we all just acknowledge how much emphasis Epi puts on game balance? Good, now lets think about how Boddy hasn't blackmailed Made, because Made could not tell us if that had happened... cool, now lets think about an unknown blackmailer whose blackmailing can be revealed. Seem fair? Seem balanced? Not in my opinion.

What if Boomslang is a baddie and this information somehow helps the baddies by making Boomslang look better? Just one option which would make it "balanced" Also, I was thinking that the way it was said or how Made said it was said, doesn't necessarily mean it was forcing a vote. What if it was a message just to mess with his mind? Could be so many things. The way people just used it as an excuse to lynch him without considering any other possibility made me think at some point that the person who was being saved was llama and not Made.

[Snow Dog]

I think FZ makes very good points. I didn't vote Made simply because I don't see the logic of his actions if he was bad. Plus he seems to be a player that people are always suspicious of. Having said that I don't know who to vote the wand to.

[Mongoose]

Recency mostly! I had just responded to zeek and then Dom seems Timmer is another I'd consider.

I feel so nebulous on nearly everyone. A lot of people haven't said much still. There aren't a lot of people I'd straight up oppose actually, but I'm still a nervous horse about trusting people so early on.

Wait, what? You never explained why you trust any of these people. I and Dom both asked you and you explain nothing here.

I don't have concrete reasons that I can point out. At this point, it's just vibes on those people. The people I don't trust however, those reasons are a bit more tangible.

[juliets]

I was thinking about voting SVS or TH but then I noticed SVS only had one vote and TH none. I think my vote would be wasted if I voted for them. Then I saw they both voted for MP. So, I'm going to vote for MP.

[FZ.]

Recency mostly! I had just responded to zeek and then Dom seems Timmer is another I'd consider.

I feel so nebulous on nearly everyone. A lot of people haven't said much still. There aren't a lot of people I'd straight up oppose actually, but I'm still a nervous horse about trusting people so early on.

Wait, what? You never explained why you trust any of these people. I and Dom both asked you and you explain nothing here.

I don't have concrete reasons that I can point out. At this point, it's just vibes on those people. The people I don't trust however, those reasons are a bit more tangible.

Who are the people you don't trust and what are the reasons that are so tangible?

[Mongoose]

Sorry, llama Not going to say RIP because I hate when people wrongfully lynch me and then just go on like it's nothing, because it annoys the hell out of me (and yeah, I know, it's just a game). I apologize. I shouldn't have voted for you when I wasn't feeling that sure, but I didn't like the votes on Made.
To be honest, I think that if like I believe Made is a civ, then there's more chance to find baddies on his list of voters because it was easier to excuse a vote for him. I get why no one wants to give the wand to those on llama's lynch, but we all make mistakes.

I want to give the wand to TH, but I'm hesitant. I felt his actions were genuine last day, but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I'll think about this a little more

Yeah this'll go ahead and put you on the tippy top of my list.

"I'm really sorry we lynched a civvie guys, but we all make mistakes, right? Lets not look at the people who lynched a civvie and instead look waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over here."

Nah.

A million times this - good misdirection. I think that's as good as any a place to start. However, there's probably a good composition of both civs and baddies in both voting camps simply due the to fact that there were so many dang voters on each side.

linki - I don't trust Made for the reasons I enumerated in my vote yesterday. Feel free to answer this question as well, everyone who has asked me. What's good for the (mon)goose is good for the gander. If I'm going to make myself vulnerable by putting it out there, then I expect you to do the same.

[Mongoose]

I'm off for a while, doing all the mongoosey things I need to do, but will see you all in Day 3.

[Turnip Head]

Is there a card czar challenge tonight?

[bea]

RIP llama. I disagreed with you, but I don't think I would have voted for you.

I'm sorry I missed the vote you guys. Lame bea was lame. I meant to do it on the bus in to work yesterday and totally forgot. And for the curious, I'm not sure where my vote would have gone. I wasn't exactly feeling a Made lynch either. (And now that TH mentions it, apparently, I forgot to send in a card too. *facepalm*)

That said, when I finally remembered that I was playing a mafia game, I skimmed for the lynch results and called it a day. So, the end of the vote and some of the stuff just after it need a reread for me.

Luckily, I do have today off. My sweet BDH has taken over my Sunday cooking duties and he has his first wife to watch the games with. So.....beer and mafia it is!

I need to think about who to give the sword to. Thank you for the vote of confidence btw Elo!!

I don't really have a firm feel about lots of people in this game yet. I'm inclined think SVS and MP feel like they are on the up and up. But both of them are players I know to be careful with my feelings for. I have this weird bad feeling about DH that won't go away. I can't tell if I should listen to it or not because I've never really had it before. Can't tell if I'm off or he is. :l Elo feels pretty much like she always does. Quiet because it's at the beginning of the game. Everyone else is firmily in the ? place for me.

Hopefully my reread will help me narrow this down.

[bea]

I'm in rereading mode now.

I've reread some people (I know there isn't much to go on) and my gut tells me Zeek is bad. And him voting 4th for Made makes sense if my theory of a civvie Made is correct.

*votes zeek*

Well I can't dispute gut, can I? I presume this weak ass vote is so that you don't have to vote your teammate. Welcome to the list.

zeeky - fwiw - I agree elo didn't do the greatest job explaining her vote there, but I don't think that makes her a baddie teammate. Hell, I'm not convinced Made is bad. But I know it's harder for Elo at the beginning of large games regardless of alignment. It's troubling when she is bad because she can coast for a while, but I've seen her lynched LOTS as a civ because of the difficulty she has keeping up and following along at the start of big games.

[Dom]

rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

We know Llama is civ, why aren't there baddies on his list of voters?

I'm not advocating for a witch hunt of Llama voters, but I am using the same logic to reach that conclusion-- one that FZ opposes, apparently. I find that odd, Juliets.

I'm just curious about why Mongoose picked me, but it's a very minor ping.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I am interested to hear that as well, since I'm pretty sure she never mentioned you or zeek before that post.

Personally, if I was to vote anyone other than myself for this poll... at the moment I'm leaning Turnip Head. I know he can be an incredibly brilliant baddie, but I have received nothing but good vibes from him so far this game. Despite that, I am not too sure how I feel about a lot of players, so this will force me to consider other options as well.

MP, what do you make of Llama being a civvie?
I think Made might be a baddie, especially since Llama ended up being civvie. I suspect Boom more, but man, it makes it harder for me to give Made the BOTD.

What do I make of it? It was a possibility I considered. I thought he was bad. I'm disappointed he wasn't. I don't know what else there is to make of it. Made could still easily be a civilian. He could also be bad.

I don't understand how Made's alignment had anything to do with Llama's. Other than a possible "save attempt", which we have no reason to believe happened here more than any other possible lynch with two main participants -- who is to say they aren't BOTH civilian and baddies bandwagoned onto both of them?

Can you explain that?

Can I explain what?
I think it's possible that Made was saved. Possible, yes. I wanted to know what you think of that possibility.
You obviously think very lowly of it. If you already don't trust Made, can you see how this might look? I don't see why you're being so aggressive here.

DH, juliets, and DFaraday need to be very closely examined, IMO.

I also do not like the fact that Dom has three votes. Why are people trusting him?

. . . oh?
Ok?
Are you the trust police?

yo dom, what's your argument against boomslang btw, I'm not sure i understand it clearly. Same/similar to INH's?

I agree with INH on his recent assessment, and only waited to say anything about it because I wanted to see if INH would post at all on day 2 to see if he was silenced.

For your reading enjoyment, in reverse chronological order:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p105628
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 05#p105605
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 12#p105412
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 99#p105299
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 98#p105298
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 62#p105162
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 45#p104945


I never received a response to what he meant by this:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 95#p105295


Not that it matters now.

I thought what I posted was quite obvious: Metalmarsh said something to the effect of "you'll be sorry if you lynch me," which I interpreted as threatening. In retrospect, he was warning us of regret rather than threat, so I misinterpreted that.

Also, INH, you'll notice I never called for a lynch on you. I was just concerned. Additionally, almost everyone else in the thread voted for their respective partners in the poll. You did not; as I've said before, we have to look for abnormal events to tease apart baddies and civvies in this game.

Would INH not voting you back in the poll make him a baddie, and if so, how?

I'm certainly not convinced that there was a "save attempt" on Made. If we confirm that Made is bad, then I would consider looking at Llama voters, but otherwise I'm not planning on using anyone's inclusion on either voting list as evidence of baddieness.

Right. . . Made should be investigated, I think. If we were to vote Llama voters before Made, that would be putting the cart before the horse.

So...voting or someone to get a wand is difficult for a civ. B/c if I accidentally vote for someone who is a baddie, it will surely come back to bite me in the ass. I voted Bea. I have no suspicions of her atm which makes me think she is a safe bet.

This sent alarms ringing for me-- I don't know about you guys. You wanted to vote for someone you knew wouldn't win so it wouldn't point back to you later?

[Elohcin]

I'm in rereading mode now.

I've reread some people (I know there isn't much to go on) and my gut tells me Zeek is bad. And him voting 4th for Made makes sense if my theory of a civvie Made is correct.

*votes zeek*

Well I can't dispute gut, can I? I presume this weak ass vote is so that you don't have to vote your teammate. Welcome to the list.

zeeky - fwiw - I agree elo didn't do the greatest job explaining her vote there, but I don't think that makes her a baddie teammate. Hell, I'm not convinced Made is bad. But I know it's harder for Elo at the beginning of large games regardless of alignment. It's troubling when she is bad because she can coast for a while, but I've seen her lynched LOTS as a civ because of the difficulty she has keeping up and following along at the start of big games.

God blessed me with creativity, artistic abilities, and a lot of common sense. But I was not first in line when he was handing out intelligence and boobs.

[Epignosis]

God blessed me with creativity, artistic abilities, and a lot of common sense. But I was not first in line when he was handing out intelligence and boobs.

How can you say that?

You did get me for a husband.

[zeek]

I think FZ makes very good points. I didn't vote Made simply because I don't see the logic of his actions if he was bad. Plus he seems to be a player that people are always suspicious of. Having said that I don't know who to vote the wand to.

Exactly why I think this makes more sense if Made is bad. He's used to getting suspected and going out early. I think he's just rolled the dice and tried something different.

I just think most people are giving him way too much benefit of the doubt.

[zeek]

Can we all just acknowledge how much emphasis Epi puts on game balance? Good, now lets think about how Boddy hasn't blackmailed Made, because Made could not tell us if that had happened... cool, now lets think about an unknown blackmailer whose blackmailing can be revealed. Seem fair? Seem balanced? Not in my opinion.

Are you a No. 2 Pencil during Finals Week?

Cause boy you better have a damn fine point.

Point being I doubt Epi would have one rule for Boddy and one rule for some other blackmailing role.

[DharmaHelper]

Can we all just acknowledge how much emphasis Epi puts on game balance? Good, now lets think about how Boddy hasn't blackmailed Made, because Made could not tell us if that had happened... cool, now lets think about an unknown blackmailer whose blackmailing can be revealed. Seem fair? Seem balanced? Not in my opinion.

Are you a No. 2 Pencil during Finals Week?

Cause boy you better have a damn fine point.

Point being I doubt Epi would have one rule for Boddy and one rule for some other blackmailing role.

In this we can agree.

[juliets]

rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

We know Llama is civ, why aren't there baddies on his list of voters?

I'm not advocating for a witch hunt of Llama voters, but I am using the same logic to reach that conclusion-- one that FZ opposes, apparently. I find that odd, Juliets.

I think there are baddies both in the llama list and the made list. Until FZ. posted people had only talked about baddies in the llama voting list. I was indicating agreement that they were likely to be in the Made voters too. I also believe there could be baddies in the people who voted for other people so they wouldn't have to get involved in the Made vs. llama vote, or maybe people who didn't vote at all. I do not believe that all baddies voted for Made and llama, especially if they are both civ.

[FZ.]

I think FZ makes very good points. I didn't vote Made simply because I don't see the logic of his actions if he was bad. Plus he seems to be a player that people are always suspicious of. Having said that I don't know who to vote the wand to.

Exactly why I think this makes more sense if Made is bad. He's used to getting suspected and going out early. I think he's just rolled the dice and tried something different.

I just think most people are giving him way too much benefit of the doubt.

The thing that bothers me the most is the part where Made asked Epig if he can share it and he said yes. The default here is no. Made knows this too. Just by telling us this, it automatically makes people suspicious of him. If I'm were a baddie, this is something I just wouldn't do. Again, only reason to do so is to gain something that is not at face value. Gaining credibility as a civ is just not worth it, and the fact he got so many votes is a proof of it.

linki: Agree with it all

[Dom]

rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

We know Llama is civ, why aren't there baddies on his list of voters?

I'm not advocating for a witch hunt of Llama voters, but I am using the same logic to reach that conclusion-- one that FZ opposes, apparently. I find that odd, Juliets.

I think there are baddies both in the llama list and the made list. Until FZ. posted people had only talked about baddies in the llama voting list. I was indicating agreement that they were likely to be in the Made voters too. I also believe there could be baddies in the people who voted for other people so they wouldn't have to get involved in the Made vs. llama vote, or maybe people who didn't vote at all. I do not believe that all baddies voted for Made and llama, especially if they are both civ.

I can agree with that. My comment was about the logical inconsistency, which you addressed.

[bea]

RIP LLama. Strongly considering the idea that this llama business was trumped up to save an unruly Made.

Who do you think was most likely trumping things up?

I have to be honest - in reread and knowing llama's role, the way I read it: I still think it's possible Made is civ. I think TH made lots of good points in his defense. I found myself agreeing with TH a lot really. (That in and of itself is a whole NOTHER can of worms.)

I feel like lots of the people people that did disagree with llama (MP springs to mind) seemed pretty darn genuine in their reasons for not trusting llama. I can see how they misinerpreted his actions in the heat of the moment, and I can see civ llama not shaking a tailfeather of consession to something he felt was not correct.

I think the more glomming votes (if I had voted mine would have been one of them btw) that make things either this or that and I feel less sure of this vs that are more suspect than the people who out right accused llama or made. I still think this could have been a civ v civ lynch.

I'm curious as to when lorab will get back in the game. I know she's super busy but I miss her.

Epi!!! - awesome post. I love all the ways you blended the transitions between worlds. Including matty was a stroke of genius!! Also - they made Holy Grail action/figure dolls?! OMG!!! Srrsly - well wrote sir!!!

[timmer]

Changed my vote to socky.

[DharmaHelper]

RIP LLama. Strongly considering the idea that this llama business was trumped up to save an unruly Made.

Who do you think was most likely trumping things up?

I have to be honest - in reread and knowing llama's role, the way I read it: I still think it's possible Made is civ. I think TH made lots of good points in his defense. I found myself agreeing with TH a lot really. (That in and of itself is a whole NOTHER can of worms.)

I feel like lots of the people people that did disagree with llama (MP springs to mind) seemed pretty darn genuine in their reasons for not trusting llama. I can see how they misinerpreted his actions in the heat of the moment, and I can see civ llama not shaking a tailfeather of consession to something he felt was not correct.

I think the more glomming votes (if I had voted mine would have been one of them btw) that make things either this or that and I feel less sure of this vs that are more suspect than the people who out right accused llama or made. I still think this could have been a civ v civ lynch.

I'm curious as to when lorab will get back in the game. I know she's super busy but I miss her.

Epi!!! - awesome post. I love all the ways you blended the transitions between worlds. Including matty was a stroke of genius!! Also - they made Holy Grail action/figure dolls?! OMG!!! Srrsly - well wrote sir!!!

MP, FZ, Bass spring to mind as taking the llama torch and running with it. Also, the volume of support that MP has been getting Wand-wise is unnerving.

[bea]

rip llama. I became convinced that Made was not lying and that you were trying to take him down. Then when you made you comment about Mongoose really lying it furthered my bad feeling, throwing a friend under the bus to get out of a lynch. I couldn't see a civ doing that. Even with that though I should've given more thought to you both (you and Made) being civ.

I agree with FZ. that if Made is civ there are baddies on his list of voters. I also agree that TH seemed genuine yesterday defending Made and so he is a potential for me to give a vote to. Others are as well though so I'm going to think on it a little more before I vote.

We know Llama is civ, why aren't there baddies on his list of voters?

I'm not advocating for a witch hunt of Llama voters, but I am using the same logic to reach that conclusion-- one that FZ opposes, apparently. I find that odd, Juliets.

I'm just curious about why Mongoose picked me, but it's a very minor ping.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I am interested to hear that as well, since I'm pretty sure she never mentioned you or zeek before that post.

Personally, if I was to vote anyone other than myself for this poll... at the moment I'm leaning Turnip Head. I know he can be an incredibly brilliant baddie, but I have received nothing but good vibes from him so far this game. Despite that, I am not too sure how I feel about a lot of players, so this will force me to consider other options as well.

MP, what do you make of Llama being a civvie?
I think Made might be a baddie, especially since Llama ended up being civvie. I suspect Boom more, but man, it makes it harder for me to give Made the BOTD.

What do I make of it? It was a possibility I considered. I thought he was bad. I'm disappointed he wasn't. I don't know what else there is to make of it. Made could still easily be a civilian. He could also be bad.

I don't understand how Made's alignment had anything to do with Llama's. Other than a possible "save attempt", which we have no reason to believe happened here more than any other possible lynch with two main participants -- who is to say they aren't BOTH civilian and baddies bandwagoned onto both of them?

Can you explain that?

Can I explain what?
I think it's possible that Made was saved. Possible, yes. I wanted to know what you think of that possibility.
You obviously think very lowly of it. If you already don't trust Made, can you see how this might look? I don't see why you're being so aggressive here.

DH, juliets, and DFaraday need to be very closely examined, IMO.

I also do not like the fact that Dom has three votes. Why are people trusting him?

. . . oh?
Ok?
Are you the trust police?

yo dom, what's your argument against boomslang btw, I'm not sure i understand it clearly. Same/similar to INH's?

I agree with INH on his recent assessment, and only waited to say anything about it because I wanted to see if INH would post at all on day 2 to see if he was silenced.

For your reading enjoyment, in reverse chronological order:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p105628
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 05#p105605
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 12#p105412
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 99#p105299
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 98#p105298
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 62#p105162
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 45#p104945


I never received a response to what he meant by this:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 95#p105295


Not that it matters now.

I thought what I posted was quite obvious: Metalmarsh said something to the effect of "you'll be sorry if you lynch me," which I interpreted as threatening. In retrospect, he was warning us of regret rather than threat, so I misinterpreted that.

Also, INH, you'll notice I never called for a lynch on you. I was just concerned. Additionally, almost everyone else in the thread voted for their respective partners in the poll. You did not; as I've said before, we have to look for abnormal events to tease apart baddies and civvies in this game.

Would INH not voting you back in the poll make him a baddie, and if so, how?

I'm certainly not convinced that there was a "save attempt" on Made. If we confirm that Made is bad, then I would consider looking at Llama voters, but otherwise I'm not planning on using anyone's inclusion on either voting list as evidence of baddieness.

Right. . . Made should be investigated, I think. If we were to vote Llama voters before Made, that would be putting the cart before the horse.

So...voting or someone to get a wand is difficult for a civ. B/c if I accidentally vote for someone who is a baddie, it will surely come back to bite me in the ass. I voted Bea. I have no suspicions of her atm which makes me think she is a safe bet.

This sent alarms ringing for me-- I don't know about you guys. You wanted to vote for someone you knew wouldn't win so it wouldn't point back to you later?

Dom dom!

a) re: FZ - she's reading fairly genuine to me thus far. She messed up pretty big re: roxy and I in the last ksite game I played, but she's that kind of player. She goes with what she sees. Passionatly. And the ksite style is different from here. Those of us that have played in both worlds, I do truely believe it affects the way we play on the "not home" sites. (except for maybe rox and splintsy - they are weird anomolies) Correct me if you think I'm wrong FZ.

b) re MP: *tee-hee* - BUT - he raises a fair point. You were BAD BAD BAD in Who and you played a perfect game as a baddie that due to circumstances beyond your control, by process of elimination, you were found out. I'm as weary of early trust toward you as I am early trust toward MP tbh. MP feels more open minded than he usually does regardless of alignment during this game. It makes me *want* to trust him. Maybe he learned a thing or two. But it doesn't mean I do quite yet - I don't quite trust you yet either. Would you expect it any other way with us?

c) re: elo - I think her vote for me was made from the best possible place. I have no reason to distrust her. I don't think she was doing it because she didn't want to be held accountable. I think she voted for the person she most trusted.

d) re: your votes. In the first champions game, there was a similar scenario about this time in the game. It was a shield though (I don't remember what it did, but I do remember that who held it came into play later in the game.) I was voted in that game to recieve it first. Outside of BDH/Diggz - the other votes I recieved kinda sketched me out. This early in the game, does it worry you that people are putting that much trust in you? Do you get paranoid that there are baddies kissing up there? Because when I was in that spot. I did. Like lots.

linki - DH - fair point. I was inclined in my read to see exactly where MP was coming from re: his view on llama. It read to me as two opposed views who legit were missing each other. Much like when I was thinking llama and I were going to the same place via different routes early this cycle. But you could be right. IDK about MP. He and SVS are people who can dupe me so hard and do - and I never see it till they are lighting my own lynch.

As I said above about FZ - she can be blindly and passionately misguided when she's a civ. ( <3 FZ) - I'm not sure this one lynch is enough to make me lean that way but it's worth keeping an eye on.

Bass is interesting though. He's a low key player in general. I would have to look at him specifically to judge but you might be on to something there.

[bea]

also - alex - do you find it sketchy that so many people are putting their trust in you?

[zeek]

I'd prefer Dom to have the wand over MP. I just feel as though if this was Who MP would be all over Made right now. So I'll switch to Dom if he has a better chance at the wand.

[Epignosis]

Night ends at 7:34 PM EST.

[bea]

Made - this is a question that NO ONE has asked you, yet I feel is important.


If your vote hadn't been forced, where would you have voted in the last lynch?

Also - do you find it at all weird that you were forced to vote Boom and the only other person who voted him was Dom - who you apparently trust enough to get the wand?

[bea]

Made - this is a question that NO ONE has asked you, yet I feel is important.


If your vote hadn't been forced, where would you have voted in the last lynch?

Also - do you find it at all weird that you were forced to vote Boom and the only other person who voted him was Dom - who you apparently trust enough to get the wand?

crap- I need to requalify that further -

assuming you didn't have to vote to save yourself. all things being equal - who would you have voted for if your vote hadn't been forced?

Who do you currently suspect and why?

[FZ.]

I'd prefer Dom to have the wand over MP. I just feel as though if this was Who MP would be all over Made right now. So I'll switch to Dom if he has a better chance at the wand.

You have a point there. MP is the king of "he slipped- he's a baddie". No matter Made's alliance, civ MP should have been all over him.


Bea, yeah, I'm passionate. I make mistakes, but I don't think I make them more than any other player (I'll just remind you that while I was suspicious of you and trusted Kitty, you and Roxy were suspicious of me and trusted Ash). I just take them to heart more. I really hate lynching a civ, hence my strong apology before.

linki: good question. I think the only person he voiced suspicion for, was DH, and it was strong

[nijuukyugou]

I'm back. Sorry for the delay - busy weekend of traveling and whatnot.

RIP llama Such a short time playing, but always a pleasure.

I don't really understand the staunch trust of Dom enough to give him a wand, nor do I want to vote LC. I feel like I'd throw my vote away voting myself (because in mafia, that's all I ever truly trust :P). I haven't gotten bad vibes from MP. I'm a bit wary of voting for him because of several votes already, but what the hell - I was leaning towards it in my catching up, anyway. Use the wand wisely if you get it, sir.

[zeek]

Staunch trust of Dom?

[bea]

I'd prefer Dom to have the wand over MP. I just feel as though if this was Who MP would be all over Made right now. So I'll switch to Dom if he has a better chance at the wand.

You have a point there. MP is the king of "he slipped- he's a baddie". No matter Made's alliance, civ MP should have been all over him.


Bea, yeah, I'm passionate. I make mistakes, but I don't think I make them more than any other player (I'll just remind you that while I was suspicious of you and trusted Kitty, you and Roxy were suspicious of me and trusted Ash). I just take them to heart more. I really hate lynching a civ, hence my strong apology before.

linki: good question. I think the only person he voiced suspicion for, was DH, and it was strong

I don't think you make them any more than any other player either. But I think passion can sometimes be misconstrued as having nefarious reasons and I wanted to point out the difference. yea - we were snowed by ash. They did a great job of divide and conquer in that game!

I know what a passionate civ you are. I've seen it so many times. I know you really do feel badly when you are a civ and you lynch another civ. I didn't want that point to go unnoticed. Especially when people who are less familiar with your play style were starting to suspect you for it.


linki - blooper! hi! How's it? What do you think about everyone else? Who are you trusting most obviously besides MP since you just voted him? - Who are you trusting least? Why? What do you think about what's been going on? Cuz things are going on now...


linkie more - zeek - do you mean that you think trust in dom is less/more than it should be vs trust in mp? or LC?

[zeek]

I mean I don't think there is a staunch trust in Dom Seemingly in MP, but not Dom.

[S~V~S]

I'd prefer Dom to have the wand over MP. I just feel as though if this was Who MP would be all over Made right now. So I'll switch to Dom if he has a better chance at the wand.

You have a point there. MP is the king of "he slipped- he's a baddie". No matter Made's alliance, civ MP should have been all over him.


Bea, yeah, I'm passionate. I make mistakes, but I don't think I make them more than any other player (I'll just remind you that while I was suspicious of you and trusted Kitty, you and Roxy were suspicious of me and trusted Ash). I just take them to heart more. I really hate lynching a civ, hence my strong apology before.

linki: good question. I think the only person he voiced suspicion for, was DH, and it was strong

MP used to be the king of analysis & appraisal. I think he had more time back in the day. He jumps to conclusions more than he used to, bad or good, such as suspecting people due to slips. Like I do always, lol. That big post felt like old MP to me. Analytical and thought out (even though it was not correct re Llama). But the jumping on baddie slips etc. is not the style I always associated with MP, although admittedly it IS the style he has been playing in more recently, true. We all evolve.

Linki, yeah, I am not sure what anyone means by "staunch trust of Dom". I tend to have a total blind spot re Dom, and he is still up in the air for me.

[FZ.]

I'd prefer Dom to have the wand over MP. I just feel as though if this was Who MP would be all over Made right now. So I'll switch to Dom if he has a better chance at the wand.

You have a point there. MP is the king of "he slipped- he's a baddie". No matter Made's alliance, civ MP should have been all over him.


Bea, yeah, I'm passionate. I make mistakes, but I don't think I make them more than any other player (I'll just remind you that while I was suspicious of you and trusted Kitty, you and Roxy were suspicious of me and trusted Ash). I just take them to heart more. I really hate lynching a civ, hence my strong apology before.

linki: good question. I think the only person he voiced suspicion for, was DH, and it was strong

I don't think you make them any more than any other player either. But I think passion can sometimes be misconstrued as having nefarious reasons and I wanted to point out the difference. yea - we were snowed by ash. They did a great job of divide and conquer in that game!

I know what a passionate civ you are. I've seen it so many times. I know you really do feel badly when you are a civ and you lynch another civ. I didn't want that point to go unnoticed. Especially when people who are less familiar with your play style were starting to suspect you for it.


linki - blooper! hi! How's it? What do you think about everyone else? Who are you trusting most obviously besides MP since you just voted him? - Who are you trusting least? Why? What do you think about what's been going on? Cuz things are going on now...


linkie more - zeek - do you mean that you think trust in dom is less/more than it should be vs trust in mp? or LC?

Oh, Okay. Thanks, I appreciate it

At this point, I have a vote, but I don't know who to give it to yet. MP has barely been here. I don't get the trust everyone is showing toward him. Not saying he's a baddie, but what has he done to gain that trust? Dom, I started out suspecting him but lately it's gone down. Still, not enough to make me give him the vote. Anyone else will just be pointless.

linki: I've played a few games with MP lately where he was all over someone who allegedly slipped, and wouldn't hear anything else. Once he decided it was a slip, he was on a crusade. Maybe it's different this time because he read it after it was analysed and not "live", I don't know.

[nijuukyugou]

As I was reading, it seemed that those who voted for Dom expressed a confidence that I hadn't seen in the game until this poll came along. I believe others expressed this curiosity, as well. Perhaps I am overthinking/overreading? (Is that a word? It is now)

Linki @ Bea - Give me a bit to answer your questions - I am smelly from running and need a shower (not ignoring you )