Ricochet ISO
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:11 am
Page one and so far
everything tutuu said about town not picking food for swag or such has irked me.
A. Non-food items are limited, so invariably some townies will have only food to pick. Case in point, me after missing out on all the non-food items. There's no point in judging player's AI based on skipping food, since some will have nothing but food left to pick.
B. Having invisible votes added to your tally is not beneficial. Vote shenanigans are not great for gamesolving purposes. So it's not townminded to boast about getting hungry.
C. Something about waiting to see what Seanzie will pick. Why Seanzie, in particular? And why such concern at all?
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:40 am
Page two and the mech talk is fine, I suppose. Easy pocket material, tho, especially with the prevalent "ooh tutuu is town for mechtalking this much" sentiment.
Tutuu still bit wishwashy or just plain derpy now with the whole "town be swag and not pick food" but then "oh wait getting increasingly hungry will lose game for town" progression.
Ping on Rondo asking to be grouped with the mechtalkers. For what? Or what kind of cred?
I don't think the game will be faultily designed (especially with this being an Epig game) as to reach a mechanical loss i.e. fX town being starved or mafia hogging all the protections each time.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:12 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:59 am
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:48 am
Define ”again”.
You and scotty have tried to soft scum me this game. I see some team work
You're inflating a ping to a wolfread.
Still doesn't account for the again-ness of my endeavour.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:13 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:44 am
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:11 am
Page one and so far everything tutuu said about town not picking food for swag or such has irked me.
A. Non-food items are limited, so invariably some townies will have only food to pick. Case in point, me after missing out on all the non-food items. There's no point in judging player's AI based on skipping food, since some will have nothing but food left to pick.
B. Having invisible votes added to your tally is not beneficial. Vote shenanigans are not great for gamesolving purposes. So it's not townminded to boast about getting hungry.
C. Something about waiting to see what Seanzie will pick. Why Seanzie, in particular? And why such concern at all?
Obv i wouldn't scumread someone for picking food if they had no other choice
Im not scumreading people who are picking food in the first place lol
Maybe I missread, but there was some „if I was mafia I would have picked food, ergo townread me yall" + "waiting to see what seanzie picks, they be mafia if picking food" stuff.
And "picking non-food is towny", which later you 180d into "oh no town will go hungry and lose on mechanics, must pick food"
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:23 am
Six out of 18 items are non-food. So, by design, some town will inevitably pick them (or have to).
Mafia depriving town of nightkill protection, at the cost of going +1 in votes, sounds like a proper Epig game balance. They could, but then it depends on drawing (repeatedly) less heat in the game.
Vibe right now is that mech-based conjecturing isn't that valuable. The game has madness, it will develop.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:09 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:00 am
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:58 am
What do you townlock those four for?
They picked non-food
lol
This is some but not all of Rico's earliest content, and I have focused primarily on his initial reception of tutuu. Rico's critiques/suspicion carried some weight (
orange), and this developed into a somewhat significant component of the Day 1 dialogue (and tutuu becoming a top wagon). This Rico material doesn't thrill me. tutuu made some assertions about mechanics and how they reflect on people that can obviously be debated, and I'd be more comfortable if that's what happened -- they were debated (instead of they were shaded as something agenda-driven). On that note, I think Rico did achieve that eventually in the
green post by simply expressing his view of the mechanical miscellany. I tend to wish this was the focus.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:10 am
Vivax has three posts rn, all with certain reads (yay on paper).
Post #1 is a bit of a mix(ed bag) of mechtalk, AI claim and hopping on some pings.
The claim that he would steal the protections as wolf strikes as rushed in rationale, i.e. omitting the downside of gaining hunger votes in the process (he stated there would be no "drawbacks" in fact). Is Vivax the type of wolfplayer who would, indeed, steal town benefits and dare to play with vote weights on? Who knows. Anyway, this statement only leads to WIFOM, if judged seriously. "I would" / "I would never". Mkay.
The ping on tutuu is not much at all. (At worst it was probably a total skim of tutuu's other posts)
The ping on Rondo is without much (in-game) sense to what was already a Rondo statement without much (in-game) sense.
Post #2 was on me and I found it funny. I mean, as far as what I've said, I thought I was pretty reasoned and surveyed different aspects. But the funny side of his angle - probably hasn't played with me (at all? not much?) - is that I am indeed a monument of excess in verbiage and reasoning.
Post #3 was on Scotty and I kind of vibe of it. Scotty's sus is one thing, but his phrasing that SVS would be overly cautious in her mechtalk feels a bit ech. It doesn't feel unreasonable of Vivax to see it this way or point it out.
In relation to JJJ's take, I don't (or didn't) feel as pinged by these posts. #1 is probably the worst. The other two give the vibe of invested play and reading into undertext.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
I'm getting noseitches about Scotty.
First he pushes a sus on SVS - at the time (#153) it seemed to come off tutuu's own doubts, but upon revisit it seems it wasn't a sheep moment - of which the reasoning comes off flat.
Then he pushes on Vivax of off JJJ's case - and it felt like a coast; or I would have rather imagined Scotty could have come up with his own take, separately.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:49 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:46 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
I'm getting noseitches about Scotty.
First he pushes a sus on SVS - at the time (#153) it seemed to come off tutuu's own doubts, but upon revisit it seems it wasn't a sheep moment - of which the reasoning comes off flat.
Then he pushes on Vivax of off JJJ's case - and it felt like a coast; or I would have rather imagined Scotty could have come up with his own take, separately.
Maybe try a Zyrtec or something for that nose
So you’re astutely saying that I made my own case/suspicion on SVS. And then in the next sentence you are lamenting that i didn’t come up with my own take.
Coasting isn’t the word you’re looking for, by the by. That’d imply I’m floating around in one of those blow up flamingos in the ocean waiting for rescue or sharks or something.
I’m closer to ‘paddling’ towards shore on a wakeboard, occasionally riding the waves as they push me.
The two sentences are distinct.
You made a push for SVS, but there seemed to be a wave of doubting her take on the mechtalk.
You placed a hard agree on JJ's case.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:00 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:52 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:49 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:46 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
I'm getting noseitches about Scotty.
First he pushes a sus on SVS - at the time (#153) it seemed to come off tutuu's own doubts, but upon revisit it seems it wasn't a sheep moment - of which the reasoning comes off flat.
Then he pushes on Vivax of off JJJ's case - and it felt like a coast; or I would have rather imagined Scotty could have come up with his own take, separately.
Maybe try a Zyrtec or something for that nose
So you’re astutely saying that I made my own case/suspicion on SVS. And then in the next sentence you are lamenting that i didn’t come up with my own take.
Coasting isn’t the word you’re looking for, by the by. That’d imply I’m floating around in one of those blow up flamingos in the ocean waiting for rescue or sharks or something.
I’m closer to ‘paddling’ towards shore on a wakeboard, occasionally riding the waves as they push me.
The two sentences are distinct.
You made a push for SVS, but there seemed to be a wave of doubting her take on the mechtalk.
You placed a hard agree on JJ's case.
I further explained my reasoning for Vivax. That I agreed with what JJJ was seeing doesn’t mean I didn’t also have that thought separately.
But I’m not fussed about it, because I don’t really care about how my reads are being taken. I’m just vibing, baby
In theory, once you've picked a wave to surf, you can further do anything with it.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:10 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:07 pm
Sean might be rly busy town or he could be mafia
Second inactive poster you focus on reading for whatever reason.
Ping.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:28 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:08 pm
tutuu
martin
scotty
jay
rico
svs
zenon
rondo
sean
creature
I know this is the result of surveying the thread, but it still reads weird and off to place total inactives dead red and everything else dead town.
I highlight these posts in relative succession, because I think they're important in the broader discussion of Rico. He has been accused of commentary without stances more or less, and I haven't really seen him that way. I think can understand the perception for reasons I will highlight later in this review, but the above posts make a contrary argument. His read on Vivax is less a "stance" than a response to my own stance, but I think he provided meaningful nuance. Then he provides clear stances for both Scotty and tutuu. One may accuse Rico of "bad" stances perhaps, but not of "non"-stances, at least not in these moments.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:45 pm
Main wagon rn is:
- SVS vote, reasoned on tutuu's talk and ideas being sketchy
- Zenon vote, thrown off the bat
- Meatbaby vote, not even written in the thread
- motoboat, not-comprehensibly worded vote
Counterwagon rn is:
- tutuu vote, on meta
- falcon vote, unreasoned or sheeping
- vivax vote, unreasoned, after some light inquiry into the meta angle
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:47 pm
Of those, Vivax exhibits either a loss of steam during the second half of today or increasingly less convincing angles and ideas, this vote being the lowest
Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:00 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:56 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:54 pm
yeah honestly vivax is just town imo. gut read
he looks kind of surface level scummy and he gets mischopped and he flips town. ive seen this play thousand of times. so the giga brain move here is to townread him despite him looking kinda meh, predicting that he will flip town despite looking meh. beat the system. stack the deck.
A considerable amount of giga brain moving is already requested:
- that we lynch Creature cuz they hate and shutdown when mafia
- that we lynch Sean cuz they panik and keep mum when mafia
- that we townread Vivax cuz they resort to scrambling as town
click here for big review post
I think these are the posts that give an impression of "commentary". And that's an understandable impression; it's primarily what they are. On balance I don't tend to view that kind of thing as alignment-indicative (maybe it depends on the person). Also I think it should be noted that even in the large review post, each "comment" is followed by some kind of stance. So it's not as though Rico is just hanging around saying words without using those words.
It's in that sense that I think reducing his play to "commentary" isn't really a charitable take.
Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 2:05 pm
Case on Scotty not playing it genuine
SVS shade, based on mechtalk, feels like a scramble to come up with some less-good to paint someone out of it (whilst there was no true, general trend to sus anyone out of that talk, save for SVS v. tutuu). The reasoning that SVS would have played it carefully doesn't feel cooked in campfire at all.
Later spins it, I feel, in a sketchy / paranoid angle of SVS being smooth killah and stuff, which feels either too early (and insubstantial) to paint such a picture or just bluff
+
Vivax suss feels like a piggyback onto JJJ's reasoning. Made me also think it's a second time he's melding with someone else (though he did the same wrt tutuu on SVS, but that is likely just a coincidental timing). Then proceeds to strengthen it in serious critical tone. Again, I feel a true Scot could / would have come out of the gates himself with that.
+
Upon re-read, most of his other pushes are flat.
Splash votes (Rondo, Wilgy, Lime).
Soft jab at JJJ for some weak (meta) apologetics.
Creates wolf team with two inactives (at that time)
+
Deflecting shades and suspicions on votes on himself with jokes, banter and haha can obviously come from either side, but coming from a mostly suss perspective, it doesn't better the read.
Full-blown case on Scotty, and perhaps the most comprehensive single case in the game to this point. Clearly Scotty flipped town, so it didn't work out. Is the case itself "playing it genuine" as Rico described for Scotty? I think so? If I want to be pessimistic and find a mafia agenda here (beyond just "mischop Scotty", which, sure), I could see an effort to pocket S~V~S given her own suspicion of Scotty maybe. But then S~V~S was night killed, so it's difficult to make that theory coherent. At absolute level 1, it was a case against a civilian, so take that as far as you feel it should be taken.
I don't want to get deep into analyzing the content of Rico's Day 2 posts. I will instead just remark that I think he has made a decent effort to stay relevant and involved despite the limitation apparently imposed upon him. He could have taken a nap, but he didn't. So that's appreciated.
~~~
I've tried to be as thorough as possible for this one and avoid confirmation bias. If I really want to squeeze, I can probably find a mafia case in here -- but I still don't
feel it. At the very least, this provides a lot more clarity for the Rico-suspecters to engage with. I don't think he's the best vote today.