Don't Starve Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Porscha]

Like I don't know how to take the Zenon claim at all at this rate after what happened Day 3.

Legit could be seeing it as the maf team just flat out deciding "Let's just continue to claim red checks on towns now that the numbers are on our side."

But also could be them accidentally causing the best form of WIFOM and Zenon's check is actually real, but the JJJ's fake ends up making us have second thoughts on the matter and we end up misyeeting Zenon on accident because we end up assuming it's another attempt at tricking the town and wolves win anyways.

"Now, Brad, which one do you think it is?"

Dude I don't fucking know.

Why did you have to make me consider another world like this. Pain

[Ricochet]

The most tinfoil detail about Zenon’s claim could be that it’s overpowered. Contrary to JJJ’s ability claim, Zenon would track every visit. And confirmation that there was only one visit, moto’s.

If not for this difference, Zenon’s claim would be identical to JJJ’s.

There is no way I will trust Zenon's claim over my willingness to lynch an actual outed JJJ.

I’m confused. If you want to lynch JJJ, that would mean you do trust Zenon’s claim.

And can you define in what way JJJ is objectively outed?

How does me wanting to lynch JJJ first equals trusting Zenon's claim?

Aside from getting rid of town after town, a fake red check is outing yourself as scum. Not only that. A part of me did not believe JJJ, because I have a very hard time townreading JJJ. So there is no way I will allow JJJ surviving another day. Anything that will destract us from lynching JJJ, I see as a potential scum move; to stall a lynch on another scum once again. After all mislynches we cannot allow any more mistakes.

Zenon is just like JJJ a potential scummy in my book. So I won't trust Zenon's claim right now. JJJ is my top scumread. Never rescind.

“A fake red check is outing yourself as scum.”

This being JaggedJimmyJay, as wolf, I am certain he was aware of this backlash.

Otherwise, I think there are partial details to his claim. He only claim he saw “one” visit and deduced it must have been the killing blow.

It gives me pause that, this being JaggedJimmyJay, he did not consider for one sec that his read is limited, i.e. meatball was one of several who may have visited tutuu.

So there’s rational space for this being a town mega blunder, too.

JJJ being scum is the most rational and safest conclusion. Do you wanna keep alive a JJJ who fake claimed a red check, and has done only kill off townies so far? Keeping JJJ alive is the biggest mistake ever.

I don’t advocate to spare JJJ.

I advocate to get the best interpretation of the sequence of events. Because I find many conflicting threads.

Including the conflicting image of JJJ, cerebral-headman extraordinaire, resorting to such dumb wolf moves.

[Porscha]

Again this is rough because all motobot has done has just been talking about what they've been doing, which becomes reasons why they haven't done anything.
And then vote at me because I called them out on that.

And literally nothing else.
No reads.
No attempted game solving.

Nothing.

Like I hate the fact that this could be town. I want this to be mafia. I'd actually rather yeet this after JJJ and hope it's the latter option.

To be fair if I was a child playing FM for thr first time I'd be surprised if I even did that much

[Ricochet]

If we lynch JJJ and he is town, we’re left in lylo with flipping moto. If that also flips town, gg zenon.

[Lime Coke]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

[Lime Coke]

Again this is rough because all motobot has done has just been talking about what they've been doing, which becomes reasons why they haven't done anything.
And then vote at me because I called them out on that.

And literally nothing else.
No reads.
No attempted game solving.

Nothing.

Like I hate the fact that this could be town. I want this to be mafia. I'd actually rather yeet this after JJJ and hope it's the latter option.

To be fair if I was a child playing FM for thr first time I'd be surprised if I even did that much

....

How old is he?

[Porscha]

So I can't really respond to like most things

Another reason to not trust Zenon just yet.

So like what are you saying? You think wolf zenon is trying to get moto wagoned to save wolf partner jjj?

[Lime Coke]

I hate that I keep doing that but I'm trying to play/treat him as a normal player.

[Porscha]

Again this is rough because all motobot has done has just been talking about what they've been doing, which becomes reasons why they haven't done anything.
And then vote at me because I called them out on that.

And literally nothing else.
No reads.
No attempted game solving.

Nothing.

Like I hate the fact that this could be town. I want this to be mafia. I'd actually rather yeet this after JJJ and hope it's the latter option.

To be fair if I was a child playing FM for thr first time I'd be surprised if I even did that much

....

How old is he?

I dont know but I remember the term "child" was used and this made me think like 13 or younger since the word teenager wasnt used, but I could have misunderstood lol

[Lime Coke]

Again this is rough because all motobot has done has just been talking about what they've been doing, which becomes reasons why they haven't done anything.
And then vote at me because I called them out on that.

And literally nothing else.
No reads.
No attempted game solving.

Nothing.

Like I hate the fact that this could be town. I want this to be mafia. I'd actually rather yeet this after JJJ and hope it's the latter option.

To be fair if I was a child playing FM for thr first time I'd be surprised if I even did that much

....

How old is he?

I dont know but I remember the term "child" was used and this made me think like 13 or younger since the word teenager wasnt used, but I could have misunderstood lol

The way people were talking I was guessing 15 or 16.

Ughhhh.

[Porscha]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

You're making me more miserable by the minute with the 25 different wolfing possibilities
Did rondo ever explain what happened with him when he was silenced?

[Ricochet]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

I have to speak my mind that this has the potential to turn into a massive WIFOM wormhole.

I still don’t exactly townread you for shit, so how do I trust that you aren’t brewing this narrative.

[Lime Coke]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

You're making me more miserable by the minute with the 25 different wolfing possibilities
Did rondo ever explain what happened with him when he was silenced?

He had to watch Man of Steel, Dawn of Justice, and Justice League all on repeat until Day 3 when he was released.

[Lime Coke]

Man of Steel actually wasn't bad and Henry didn't get a good enough chance as Superman as the series went on and I stand by it.

The rest were awful.

[Belzy]

The most tinfoil detail about Zenon’s claim could be that it’s overpowered. Contrary to JJJ’s ability claim, Zenon would track every visit. And confirmation that there was only one visit, moto’s.

If not for this difference, Zenon’s claim would be identical to JJJ’s.

There is no way I will trust Zenon's claim over my willingness to lynch an actual outed JJJ.

I’m confused. If you want to lynch JJJ, that would mean you do trust Zenon’s claim.

And can you define in what way JJJ is objectively outed?

How does me wanting to lynch JJJ first equals trusting Zenon's claim?

Aside from getting rid of town after town, a fake red check is outing yourself as scum. Not only that. A part of me did not believe JJJ, because I have a very hard time townreading JJJ. So there is no way I will allow JJJ surviving another day. Anything that will destract us from lynching JJJ, I see as a potential scum move; to stall a lynch on another scum once again. After all mislynches we cannot allow any more mistakes.

Zenon is just like JJJ a potential scummy in my book. So I won't trust Zenon's claim right now. JJJ is my top scumread. Never rescind.

“A fake red check is outing yourself as scum.”

This being JaggedJimmyJay, as wolf, I am certain he was aware of this backlash.

Otherwise, I think there are partial details to his claim. He only claim he saw “one” visit and deduced it must have been the killing blow.

It gives me pause that, this being JaggedJimmyJay, he did not consider for one sec that his read is limited, i.e. meatball was one of several who may have visited tutuu.

So there’s rational space for this being a town mega blunder, too.

JJJ being scum is the most rational and safest conclusion. Do you wanna keep alive a JJJ who fake claimed a red check, and has done only kill off townies so far? Keeping JJJ alive is the biggest mistake ever.

I don’t advocate to spare JJJ.

I advocate to get the best interpretation of the sequence of events. Because I find many conflicting threads.

Including the conflicting image of JJJ, cerebral-headman extraordinaire, resorting to such dumb wolf moves.

You do, actually, advocate to spare JJJ to some level.

[Lime Coke]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

I have to speak my mind that this has the potential to turn into a massive WIFOM wormhole.

I still don’t exactly townread you for shit, so how do I trust that you aren’t brewing this narrative.

My man I'm the only one at this rate that can help you actually win if you're town.

[Lime Coke]

Actually maybe not the only one.

[Porscha]

I am missing the mastermind element behind JJJ’s claim, I really do. You were on heat and wanted to delay things and win one more mislynch, ok, perhaps. But otherwise, it’s no mastermind move. It’s masterdumb.

This is a huge part of why I'm concerned though, what purpose does jjj get from intentionally lying specifically about meatbaby? He had a couple votes, sure, but it wasnt late in the day, he had time. What does wolf jjj gain from a play like this when he wasnt in serious danger anyway. There isnt a hammer either. So why would jjj be so under pressure to make up a claim like that

[Lime Coke]

One of the few that are left.

[Lime Coke]

Guys if JJJ's a wolf pulling that off he accomplished getting a town killed over him.

[Lime Coke]

If he IS town then guess it was just wacky mechs or he gambled and it didn't pay off.

But I doubt he tries it as town.

[Belzy]

So I can't really respond to like most things

Another reason to not trust Zenon just yet.

So like what are you saying? You think wolf zenon is trying to get moto wagoned to save wolf partner jjj?

I see that as an option. Flipping JJJ I feel best about.

60-40 Zenon town, moto wolf.
JJJ wolf... 90-10.

[Porscha]

I am missing the mastermind element behind JJJ’s claim, I really do. You were on heat and wanted to delay things and win one more mislynch, ok, perhaps. But otherwise, it’s no mastermind move. It’s masterdumb.

Writing was on the wall for the guy...idk if it was fully happening, but it was closing in on him.

Kamikaze a town that wasn't considered a yeet for most of the game.


Now let me ask you about the other side of the coin here:

Do you really think JJJ tries that as town?

The fact that I took JJJ for a town tracker, eager to share the info, if a bit superficial in his analysis (that his tracked visit was the killer’s visit), is proof that I believed he would have done down as town.

The only surprise on Day 3 was that the flip was town, not that JJJ was seen town for it:

Yes this is a good way of putting it thank you

[Lime Coke]

I also have a mass tinfoil on my head about a certain something.

Perhaps I should remove the tinfoil and cover up the leftover food from earlier.

But yeah I'm stashing that tinfoil until necessary.

[Porscha]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

You're making me more miserable by the minute with the 25 different wolfing possibilities
Did rondo ever explain what happened with him when he was silenced?

He had to watch Man of Steel, Dawn of Justice, and Justice League all on repeat until Day 3 when he was released.

Ain't no way

[Ricochet]

Hmm.

Man, I may kinda want to flip moto toDay, lol.

Here’s why:

When asked for clarification, Zenon stated that her ability tracks every visit and that she got the result of only one visit. Therefore, this is a strong wording of a sure-read mafia kill than JJJ worded it.

So if moto flips town, Zenon is legit wolf duper.

That would give town the mentality to flip what they perceive sure wolf flip both toDay and next Day, if necessary.

Does that make sense?

[Belzy]

Guys if JJJ's a wolf pulling that off he accomplished getting a town killed over him.

Exactly. I am not even surprised Meatbaby flipped town. JJJ was my top scumread. And still is. Especially now he lied. A rule: town does not lie.

[Porscha]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

I have to speak my mind that this has the potential to turn into a massive WIFOM wormhole.

I still don’t exactly townread you for shit, so how do I trust that you aren’t brewing this narrative.

To be fair I think I was the first one to bring up other possibilities, lime just kept running with it and finding other ideas I hadn't considered

[Ricochet]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

I have to speak my mind that this has the potential to turn into a massive WIFOM wormhole.

I still don’t exactly townread you for shit, so how do I trust that you aren’t brewing this narrative.

My man I'm the only one at this rate that can help you actually win if you're town.

Thank you Superman.

[Porscha]

Guys if JJJ's a wolf pulling that off he accomplished getting a town killed over him.

Exactly. I am not even surprised Meatbaby flipped town. JJJ was my top scumread. And still is. Especially now he lied. A rule: town does not lie.

And in cases when town give you the results they recieved with no reason to doubt said results but the results were incorrect?

[Belzy]

Hmm.

Man, I may kinda want to flip moto toDay, lol.

Here’s why:

When asked for clarification, Zenon stated that her ability tracks every visit and that she got the result of only one visit. Therefore, this is a strong wording of a sure-read mafia kill than JJJ worded it.

So if moto flips town, Zenon is legit wolf duper.

That would give town the mentality to flip what they perceive sure wolf flip both toDay and next Day, if necessary.

Does that make sense?

No, it does not make sense. You make a solid case why to not trust Zenon, and you wanna flip moto???

[Belzy]

I may even wanna flip Zenon before moto...

JJJ has to flip first 100%

[Lime Coke]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

I have to speak my mind that this has the potential to turn into a massive WIFOM wormhole.

I still don’t exactly townread you for shit, so how do I trust that you aren’t brewing this narrative.

My man I'm the only one at this rate that can help you actually win if you're town.

Thank you Superman.

I can save everybody.

[Belzy]

JJJ red
ZENON / MOTO orange (one green, one red, most likely)
Rico yellow

[Lime Coke]

Also to think.

Day 2 was Ringo banished from speaking, and Night 3 we have Rondo flipping town.

Day 3 Zenon is banished and is coming back the next day.

Did mafia banish their own teammate to WIFOM it and to make us all believe Zenon be town because of it?

I have to speak my mind that this has the potential to turn into a massive WIFOM wormhole.

I still don’t exactly townread you for shit, so how do I trust that you aren’t brewing this narrative.

To be fair I think I was the first one to bring up other possibilities, lime just kept running with it and finding other ideas I hadn't considered

Hello M'Lady,

Would you like to play a fun and rousing game of "Worse Case Scenario?"

I heard it is quite fun.

Yours truly,
Lad Pitt

[Ricochet]

Hmm.

Man, I may kinda want to flip moto toDay, lol.

Here’s why:

When asked for clarification, Zenon stated that her ability tracks every visit and that she got the result of only one visit. Therefore, this is a strong wording of a sure-read mafia kill than JJJ worded it.

So if moto flips town, Zenon is legit wolf duper.

That would give town the mentality to flip what they perceive sure wolf flip both toDay and next Day, if necessary.

Does that make sense?

No, it does not make sense. You make a solid case why to not trust Zenon, and you wanna flip moto???

I would go with Zenon, but with more certainty that he is either for sure right (and town) and moto, or for sure bullshitter (and mafia).

[Ricochet]

Please compare

I see every one who visits a target

I watched Rondo

Moto visited

Moto killed

Moto is scum

GGs

I'm quite literally a lookout yes lol my flavor is a pirate and I use my spyglass to see everyone who targeted the player the night I watch them

I fucked up thinking Tutuu would get killed N1 because I didn't understand how her claimed role worked so I watched her n1 there's no double targeting so I tried to watch her n2 but couldn't do I watched JJJ n2 no visits wish I had flipped those but oh well

Watched Rondo last night 1 visit moto

Rondo dead

GGs caught wolf

Deduction:

100% result that moto is bad
If this flips false, 100% certainty that Zenon wolf bullshiter.

VS

Probably a good look for meatbaby too, even if they clearly had frustrations with tutuu

I lied.

I have a 1-shot watcher ability, and I watched tutuu last night. meatbaby visited her.

[VOTE: die_meatbaby] aubergine

Deduction:

No clear result that meatbaby was the sole visitor (aka killer).
No clear result (or clarification) that JJJ could track every visit.
Meatbaby flipped town: no 100% certainy JJJ was bullshitter (and not blunderer).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hello. I did not lie. I was subjected to shenanigans. Welcome to closed role madness.

Folks aren’t going to believe me unfortunately, and I believe the game is at 6 vs. 4 (barring unseen independent activity). So we’re about to lose the game.

I’ll see if I can work a miracle, but it is a very bad time.

[Ricochet]

Why do you project 4 baddies?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Watchers see all visitors to their target. That’s the norm. I saw only meatbaby. Most likely explanation is bus driving or similar redirection. Who knows

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why do you project 4 baddies?

3 is too few without multiple independents. 5 is too many in nearly any iteration. Both are possible, but I’d sooner guess 4.

[Ricochet]

Hello. I did not lie. I was subjected to shenanigans. Welcome to closed role madness.

Folks aren’t going to believe me unfortunately, and I believe the game is at 6 vs. 4 (barring unseen independent activity). So we’re about to lose the game.

I’ll see if I can work a miracle, but it is a very bad time.

First thought is not to be enamoured with you playing the "shenanigans" card on your read.

Why did you not, for the whole duration of Day 3, contemplate or made caveats that your read can be limited?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

5 would even be parity already I think

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hello. I did not lie. I was subjected to shenanigans. Welcome to closed role madness.

Folks aren’t going to believe me unfortunately, and I believe the game is at 6 vs. 4 (barring unseen independent activity). So we’re about to lose the game.

I’ll see if I can work a miracle, but it is a very bad time.

First thought is not to be enamoured with you playing the "shenanigans" card on your read.

Why did you not, for the whole duration of Day 3, contemplate or made caveats that your read can be limited?

There’s no reason to do that. I have a role and a night result. Any closed setup can potentially have redirection abilities, but meatbaby literally didn’t even deny it. Game is baked.

[Ricochet]

Hello. I did not lie. I was subjected to shenanigans. Welcome to closed role madness.

Folks aren’t going to believe me unfortunately, and I believe the game is at 6 vs. 4 (barring unseen independent activity). So we’re about to lose the game.

I’ll see if I can work a miracle, but it is a very bad time.

First thought is not to be enamoured with you playing the "shenanigans" card on your read.

Why did you not, for the whole duration of Day 3, contemplate or made caveats that your read can be limited?

There’s no reason to do that. I have a role and a night result. Any closed setup can potentially have redirection abilities, but meatbaby literally didn’t even deny it. Game is baked.

Agree(d) with meatball's uninspired defence.

You are also at fault for not having clarified any of the above in your claim.

[Ricochet]

JJJ's clarifications have brought this claim game to a total stalemate.

JJJ's and Zenon's claims are now fucking identical.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Blame me if you want, but “my role can be be redirected” is not part of my role card. ANY role can be redirected. If I see some visit a night kill I am going to vote for them every time. This is the improbable exception to a very basic rule.

[Ricochet]

Blame me if you want, but “my role can be be redirected” is not part of my role card. ANY role can be redirected. If I see some visit a night kill I am going to vote for them every time. This is the improbable exception to a very basic rule.

We are into an early phase situation of rage lynching you, because you couldn't articulate last Day that you can track every visit and that meatbaby's visit was the only one.

Leading to Zenon being believed with this kind of clearer, more certain on paper mech read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Blame me if you want, but “my role can be be redirected” is not part of my role card. ANY role can be redirected. If I see some visit a night kill I am going to vote for them every time. This is the improbable exception to a very basic rule.

We are into an early phase situation of rage lynching you, because you couldn't articulate last Day that you can track every visit and that meatbaby's visit was the only one.

Leading to Zenon being believed with this kind of clearer, more certain on paper mech read.

I thought it was obvious. It’s what all watchers do

[Belzy]

Blame me if you want, but “my role can be be redirected” is not part of my role card. ANY role can be redirected. If I see some visit a night kill I am going to vote for them every time. This is the improbable exception to a very basic rule.

No s---, Sherlock. So where was the redirection possibility the other day? You have to go first.