The Emperor's Soul [D5]

[Ricochet]

I still think Rico bussing Epi wouldn’t be good strategy, but it might not matter as much as I thought it did. What matters more is if Rico would think it was good strategy and I don’t have much of an idea whether he would. One thing that is imo a slightly good point for Rico around Epi is that he didn’t do more to bury Epi and maximize cred. He just said Epi looked worse and left it at that.

I'll be the first to say that is within range for a bus.

My virtue call of not being wolf is not that I killed Epig in the tiebkreak.

My virtue call of not being wolf is that I did not sink you, given that the timing and tally I arrived had that on a plate. Press the button, cook up a sentence, or just vote etc.

This is TMI





IMO

I offered this rewind before and your answer was "just vote me then bro what you waiting". Are you that unable to repeatedly explain the reasoning for a wolf verdict on that instead of just framing it as such?

[Scotty]

POEs as a concept in a game that is basically mountainous is not binary. Process of elimination should culminate into best guesses, but literally no one can be eliminated from the suspicion list without mech

You are seeming to operate under the assumption that bing bang boom the solve is set in stone, but have a hard time coming to the possibility that you yourself could be in the POE of town. Because as you know, at least one of falcon/myself is town

Which of us is being manipulative and which is being manipulated?

You are, in principle, correct, and I wish I would approach this more "fairly", if that's your issue. But my angle is 3 phases, 3 shots, wolf smoked out. It's good enough. It's mathematical enough.

Failure of this angle is likely, but then it will be cuz of a wolf-wolf wagon (which I would interpret as less likely) or of straight up reverse psych (which is extreme to contemplate, and extremely difficult to solve).

As for the question:

a. same to what I said to thunal, I'd prefer to try an in-depth answer later toDay

b. I'd like to state that "manipulated" may be in fact murky to ascertain, since you both seem to have built this angle on your own; I don't recall or would need to revisit any instance of one of you sheeping the other's point

c. I'd like you to restate the case from this; falcon gave an answer, at least; you, why not?

Thunal up 3 to 2 vs Epignosis, with SVS, Epignosis and myself still to vote

Enter thread

Flake another 20mins (I was undecided and unread), instead of making it a decisive 4-2

“It’s the only explanation, guys, only Maf would play like this”

c. You know what? No. I don’t know how many more times I can rehash the same thing. If anything, I’ve overexplained my opinion on this spanning back to D3, and am in disbelief that you haven’t caught it in your read

[Ricochet]

Good night

and, if you proceed to flip it, good luck.

[falcon45ca]

I still think Rico bussing Epi wouldn’t be good strategy, but it might not matter as much as I thought it did. What matters more is if Rico would think it was good strategy and I don’t have much of an idea whether he would. One thing that is imo a slightly good point for Rico around Epi is that he didn’t do more to bury Epi and maximize cred. He just said Epi looked worse and left it at that.

I'll be the first to say that is within range for a bus.

My virtue call of not being wolf is not that I killed Epig in the tiebkreak.

My virtue call of not being wolf is that I did not sink you, given that the timing and tally I arrived had that on a plate. Press the button, cook up a sentence, or just vote etc.

This is TMI





IMO

I offered this rewind before and your answer was "just vote me then bro what you waiting". Are you that unable to repeatedly explain the reasoning for a wolf verdict on that instead of just framing it as such?

It seems to me you're saying you should be TR by virtue of the fact you did not vote off Thunal...which implies that you know her alignment.






Cuz while it's true, you may TR her slot, you don't KNOW she's town. Especially since, if you had been TR her slot the whole time, it's not even a big decision on who to vote for, Thun or Epi

[Ricochet]

POEs as a concept in a game that is basically mountainous is not binary. Process of elimination should culminate into best guesses, but literally no one can be eliminated from the suspicion list without mech

You are seeming to operate under the assumption that bing bang boom the solve is set in stone, but have a hard time coming to the possibility that you yourself could be in the POE of town. Because as you know, at least one of falcon/myself is town

Which of us is being manipulative and which is being manipulated?

You are, in principle, correct, and I wish I would approach this more "fairly", if that's your issue. But my angle is 3 phases, 3 shots, wolf smoked out. It's good enough. It's mathematical enough.

Failure of this angle is likely, but then it will be cuz of a wolf-wolf wagon (which I would interpret as less likely) or of straight up reverse psych (which is extreme to contemplate, and extremely difficult to solve).

As for the question:

a. same to what I said to thunal, I'd prefer to try an in-depth answer later toDay

b. I'd like to state that "manipulated" may be in fact murky to ascertain, since you both seem to have built this angle on your own; I don't recall or would need to revisit any instance of one of you sheeping the other's point

c. I'd like you to restate the case from this; falcon gave an answer, at least; you, why not?

Thunal up 3 to 2 vs Epignosis, with SVS, Epignosis and myself still to vote

Enter thread

Flake another 20mins (I was undecided and unread), instead of making it a decisive 4-2

“It’s the only explanation, guys, only Maf would play like this”

c. You know what? No. I don’t know how many more times I can rehash the same thing. If anything, I’ve overexplained my opinion on this spanning back to D3, and am in disbelief that you haven’t caught it in your read

Bro. You do know you picked the wrong guy to taunt at ISO'ing and showing you the receipts, right?

#1151, arguments

Rico should not be cleared - was gonna make the same point Falcon already did [my note: oh, I already stand correct, here's a slight sheep]
Rico is suddenly playing - how convenient.
Rico is wolf for suddenly playing.

#1192, arguments

Rico if bad had no option but to wake up and play
Epig was likely to go over [my note: although you pulled up AN INCOMPLETE tally in which it was 2-2, ignoring Syn's 3-2 move], so Rico should not be cleared for his vote.

#1236, arguments

What strategy other than bussing Epig could Rico possibly adopt to reach endgame [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context

#1269

Appears to be a partial argument, in agreement with falcon [sheep #2?], that Rico not being NK is tinfoil for wolf.

#1272

Rico is bad for coming back to life.
Rico is bad for tiebreaking Epig and taking a town claim for it. [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context]

#1326

Rico is bad for being committed to low-posting.
Rico is bad for wanting to solve his PoE.

#1338

Rico is bad for bussing Epig and taking a town claim for it. [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context]

#1384

Rico is bad for wanting to solve his PoE, but not fine-tuning it in the process.

====

So no. Not only did you not overexplained it, but did not explain ONCE the vote progression context and why wolf-me did not lynch Thunal button at the tip of the finger.

Congrats, Scotty.

You are the manipulative.

[Ricochet]

I still think Rico bussing Epi wouldn’t be good strategy, but it might not matter as much as I thought it did. What matters more is if Rico would think it was good strategy and I don’t have much of an idea whether he would. One thing that is imo a slightly good point for Rico around Epi is that he didn’t do more to bury Epi and maximize cred. He just said Epi looked worse and left it at that.

I'll be the first to say that is within range for a bus.

My virtue call of not being wolf is not that I killed Epig in the tiebkreak.

My virtue call of not being wolf is that I did not sink you, given that the timing and tally I arrived had that on a plate. Press the button, cook up a sentence, or just vote etc.

This is TMI





IMO

I offered this rewind before and your answer was "just vote me then bro what you waiting". Are you that unable to repeatedly explain the reasoning for a wolf verdict on that instead of just framing it as such?

It seems to me you're saying you should be TR by virtue of the fact you did not vote off Thunal...which implies that you know her alignment.






Cuz while it's true, you may TR her slot, you don't KNOW she's town. Especially since, if you had been TR her slot the whole time, it's not even a big decision on who to vote for, Thun or Epi

If I KNEW she's town out of TMI, why. did. I. not. push. her. over. the. cliff. as. she. was. standing. at. the. very. edge

[Scotty]

POEs as a concept in a game that is basically mountainous is not binary. Process of elimination should culminate into best guesses, but literally no one can be eliminated from the suspicion list without mech

You are seeming to operate under the assumption that bing bang boom the solve is set in stone, but have a hard time coming to the possibility that you yourself could be in the POE of town. Because as you know, at least one of falcon/myself is town

Which of us is being manipulative and which is being manipulated?

You are, in principle, correct, and I wish I would approach this more "fairly", if that's your issue. But my angle is 3 phases, 3 shots, wolf smoked out. It's good enough. It's mathematical enough.

Failure of this angle is likely, but then it will be cuz of a wolf-wolf wagon (which I would interpret as less likely) or of straight up reverse psych (which is extreme to contemplate, and extremely difficult to solve).

As for the question:

a. same to what I said to thunal, I'd prefer to try an in-depth answer later toDay

b. I'd like to state that "manipulated" may be in fact murky to ascertain, since you both seem to have built this angle on your own; I don't recall or would need to revisit any instance of one of you sheeping the other's point

c. I'd like you to restate the case from this; falcon gave an answer, at least; you, why not?

Thunal up 3 to 2 vs Epignosis, with SVS, Epignosis and myself still to vote

Enter thread

Flake another 20mins (I was undecided and unread), instead of making it a decisive 4-2

“It’s the only explanation, guys, only Maf would play like this”

c. You know what? No. I don’t know how many more times I can rehash the same thing. If anything, I’ve overexplained my opinion on this spanning back to D3, and am in disbelief that you haven’t caught it in your read

Bro. You do know you picked the wrong guy to taunt at ISO'ing and showing you the receipts, right?

#1151, arguments

Rico should not be cleared - was gonna make the same point Falcon already did [my note: oh, I already stand correct, here's a slight sheep]
Rico is suddenly playing - how convenient.
Rico is wolf for suddenly playing.

#1192, arguments

Rico if bad had no option but to wake up and play
Epig was likely to go over [my note: although you pulled up AN INCOMPLETE tally in which it was 2-2, ignoring Syn's 3-2 move], so Rico should not be cleared for his vote.

#1236, arguments

What strategy other than bussing Epig could Rico possibly adopt to reach endgame [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context

#1269

Appears to be a partial argument, in agreement with falcon [sheep #2?], that Rico not being NK is tinfoil for wolf.

#1272

Rico is bad for coming back to life.
Rico is bad for tiebreaking Epig and taking a town claim for it. [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context]

#1326

Rico is bad for being committed to low-posting.
Rico is bad for wanting to solve his PoE.

#1338

Rico is bad for bussing Epig and taking a town claim for it. [my note: argument devoid of vote progression context]

#1384

Rico is bad for wanting to solve his PoE, but not fine-tuning it in the process.

====

So no. Not only did you not overexplained it, but did not explain ONCE the vote progression context and why wolf-me did not lynch Thunal button at the tip of the finger.

Congrats, Scotty.

You are the manipulative.

k

So I’m the manipulative wolf between falcon/scotty?

Who you gonna vote

[Scotty]

Also @Ricochet you make notes in your iso journey that i sheeped falcon twice. Is a sheep manipulative?

Also is this why you scum read me? Because you think I’m making up my progression on suspecting you?

[falcon45ca]

It's F5 & Rico has 2 votes.






If Thunal is Maf, she could easily hammer. Ditto Nut






Perhaps they're being patient, but I think as Maf they'd still have every excuse to just hammer and go to F3

[Scotty]

It's F5 & Rico has 2 votes.






If Thunal is Maf, she could easily hammer. Ditto Nut






Perhaps they're being patient, but I think as Maf they'd still have every excuse to just hammer and go to F3

I wouldn’t blame them to just hammer away in any alignment, though that does help.

I also think you voting first and early makes you look towny

Wanna be town buds with me?

[Scotty]

Whatever happens today, I gave it my best shot and I hope there isn’t a tomorrow




which doesn’t sound ominous at all

[falcon45ca]

It's F5 & Rico has 2 votes.






If Thunal is Maf, she could easily hammer. Ditto Nut






Perhaps they're being patient, but I think as Maf they'd still have every excuse to just hammer and go to F3

I wouldn’t blame them to just hammer away in any alignment, though that does help.

I also think you voting first and early makes you look towny

Wanna be town buds with me?

Oh heck, why not

[Thunal33]

I'm leaning voting Rico now, but I'm not going to hammer yet. Now that Rico is in the PoE if he were town he'd need to find the wolf not a PoE of 2 and I feel like there's a lack of interest in that. Like "Scotty is the manipulative" feels like he's putting a lot of effort to discredit Scotty without outright calling him a wolf, and there's not the sort of impressions I would expect from a townie. Like I'd expect a townie to have real-time thoughts and impressions of how people are treating him and that's almost absent.

[Thunal33]

falcon, PoE candidate, will spin me wolf and vote me - check

Scotty, PoE candidate, will spin me wolf and vote me - check

We can't both be Maf, and in fact from your perspective (if town) we very well both might be town.





This take is not a town mindset

I think it's a slightly good look that me and Falcon had similar thoughts at the same time to Rico's post.

[Thunal33]

Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

[Scotty]

Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

To be fair, that is probably the main thing that brings him into the towny discussion. He didn’t do much until then.

[Thunal33]

Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

To be fair, that is probably the main thing that brings him into the towny discussion. He didn’t do much until then.

That's true, and it is possible t!Rico just thinks it's the only thing clearing for him.

[Ricochet]

I'm leaning voting Rico now, but I'm not going to hammer yet. Now that Rico is in the PoE if he were town he'd need to find the wolf not a PoE of 2 and I feel like there's a lack of interest in that. Like "Scotty is the manipulative" feels like he's putting a lot of effort to discredit Scotty without outright calling him a wolf, and there's not the sort of impressions I would expect from a townie. Like I'd expect a townie to have real-time thoughts and impressions of how people are treating him and that's almost absent.

This is becoming bothersome.
Having a PoE of 2 is (still) the range I find sufficient to smoke out the wolf. It's true for anyone else, whether they "stick to this plan" or mislynch me and embrace a different game tomorrow.
The quote line came at the end of a proper analysis. And it is answer to what not only you, but Scotty as well, asked. Now it's being seen as discrediting. Ok.

Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

One, it is not in a vacuum, it is in a specific context, and you are now the third player ignoring that context.
I didn't play shit until I made that shot.
I don't believe and never stated "I am townie", i.e. asked for cred, for anything.

Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

To be fair, that is probably the main thing that brings him into the towny discussion. He didn’t do much until then.

That's true, and it is possible t!Rico just thinks it's the only thing clearing for him.

It is. You are now the third player ignoring that context etc.

Take me out, Thunal, nutella. A pool of three players now not looking at facts and context regarding that D2 vote is already too big, it basically means I've lost town support for the 3-PoE solve and for myself.
Take me out and good luck with the f3, whether you'll be there to manage it or you entrust it will be in others' better hands.

[Scotty]

I'm leaning voting Rico now, but I'm not going to hammer yet. Now that Rico is in the PoE if he were town he'd need to find the wolf not a PoE of 2 and I feel like there's a lack of interest in that. Like "Scotty is the manipulative" feels like he's putting a lot of effort to discredit Scotty without outright calling him a wolf, and there's not the sort of impressions I would expect from a townie. Like I'd expect a townie to have real-time thoughts and impressions of how people are treating him and that's almost absent.

This is becoming bothersome.
Having a PoE of 2 is (still) the range I find sufficient to smoke out the wolf. It's true for anyone else, whether they "stick to this plan" or mislynch me and embrace a different game tomorrow.
The quote line came at the end of a proper analysis. And it is answer to what not only you, but Scotty as well, asked. Now it's being seen as discrediting. Ok.

Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

One, it is not in a vacuum, it is in a specific context, and you are now the third player ignoring that context.
I didn't play shit until I made that shot.
I don't believe and never stated "I am townie", i.e. asked for cred, for anything.

Normally a townie believes that they are generally playing the game in a townie way. Rico's defense being that he voted Epi over me is fine in a vacuum, but it pings me that that's consistently the only thing he cites as towny for him.

To be fair, that is probably the main thing that brings him into the towny discussion. He didn’t do much until then.

That's true, and it is possible t!Rico just thinks it's the only thing clearing for him.

It is. You are now the third player ignoring that context etc.

Take me out, Thunal, nutella. A pool of three players now not looking at facts and context regarding that D2 vote is already too big, it basically means I've lost town support for the 3-PoE solve and for myself.
Take me out and good luck with the f3, whether you'll be there to manage it or you entrust it will be in others' better hands.

Which of falcon and I is bad? Who are you voting?

[nutella]

About to board my flight and want to hammer but also still fearing it's falcon looking at his early iso again ugh.

There are bits in ricos defense today that strike me as off perspective wise but i can really see it either way

In some ways Scotty makes more sense as a wolf actually playing to win here. Which worries me but i don't think we are getting there today if so. If this goes to f3 it's gonna suck but atp feels like we are sending it on rico

[nutella]

[VOTE: ricochet] aubergine

@DrWilgy hammer

[DrWilgy]

Locked.

[DrWilgy]

poll

Spoiler: show

Falcon45ca
0
No votes
Voters: None
Nutella
0
No votes
Voters: None
Ricochet
3
43%
Voters: nutella, falcon45ca, Scotty
Scotty
0
No votes
Voters: None
Thunal
0
No votes
Voters: None

post counts

Spoiler: show

Scotty236
Syn190
Thunal33180
nutella152
S~V~S144
Marmot111
falcon45ca100
Lime Coke69
Seanzie67
Epignosis63
Dyslexicon55
Ricochet29
DrWilgy27
Justplayingitcool1

[DrWilgy]

Sorry about the delay, hammer happened during work hell.

whatever counts as floof will go here eventually.

Ricochet has been yeeted! Richochet was a Vanilla Civilian!

You have until tomorrow at 3 CST for night actions. Actions will be locked an hour before End of Night. (Keeping us on schedule)

[DrWilgy]

Scotty has been tricked into an adventure by a weird storyteller! Scotty was a Vanilla Civ!

Hammer is at 2 and we'll be going without a poll, just make sure you use [VOTE: ] aubergine tags. You have 48 hours!

[Thunal33]

I really hoped I wouldn't be in f3. I didn't expect that kill and I'm wondering both why I'm alive and why Nutella is alive.

[falcon45ca]

So one of you two let us hang all day last RD?





Lame

[Thunal33]

The annoying thing is that I could see Falcon or Nutella making that kill. Although Scotty wasn't suspecting nutella, he called Falcon "town buds" near EoD yesterday and if nutella killed me she could stick out for being alive. I could also see Falcon keeping me alive since I changed my read on Rico, so w!Falcon could see me doing the same for Nut.

[falcon45ca]

Hmmmmm...



Epi knows I've had sus on them...does she leave me alive for F3, knowing I've been a snap voter?

[falcon45ca]

Hmmmmm...



Nut knows I've had sus on them...does she leave me alive for F3, knowing I've been a snap voter?

Fixed

[Thunal33]

I want to reevaluate everything and make sure I don't make a wrong choice.

[Thunal33]

Hmmmmm...



Epi knows I've had sus on them...does she leave me alive for F3, knowing I've been a snap voter?

The alternative would be a Nut/me/Scotty f3, which I think would be worse for Nut since Scotty was convinced mafia voted Syn.

[Thunal33]

Nutella - Is getting reads, specifically scumreads, in a way that I'm used to seeing her get where it basically snowballs.

...Where are you seeing this??

My first ever-so-slight pressure was on Marmot whom I now lean town. I haven't really had scumreads aside from defaulting to the 0-1 posters and shrugging a bit on Epi/Thunal for a couple pages (Thunal has moved up a little but subject to return). I just now put you on the bottom of my list and I don't think I had indicated that inclination much prior to responding to your post above.

My reads have not been following a particularly snowbally pattern at all. They've been in flux. Explain this read.

What did you specifically find good about Marmot d1 after your exchange with him?

[falcon45ca]

I want to reevaluate everything and make sure I don't make a wrong choice.

I won't snap vote this RD, tho I am tempted.

[Thunal33]

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

No you're just smoking some really funky shit.

You said LC pinged you right away. Was it for similar reasons as Nutella (that he had strange reads) or was it something else?

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

No you're just smoking some really funky shit.

You said LC pinged you right away. Was it for similar reasons as Nutella (that he had strange reads) or was it something else?

It was the way he handled the criticism, felt very defensive & performative

[Thunal33]

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

No you're just smoking some really funky shit.

You said LC pinged you right away. Was it for similar reasons as Nutella (that he had strange reads) or was it something else?

It was the way he handled the criticism, felt very defensive & performative

Okay. Imo that's slightly better than suspecting him for having odd reads.

[Thunal33]

Definitely kinda.

It feels more like a throwaway remark, like “I am town!”, than a serious attempt to actually appear towny.

It just seems somewhat (perhaps … kinda?) excess to needs. Not sure what, if anything it means. Performative.

Kinda. Maybe.

Awe, now you appear to be deflecting from your take, and minimizing my criticism by making this a half joke post.



Kinda...but, no actually

I'm fine voting LC, Dizzy, SVS

Was there progression from not really thinking SVS was deflecting to being fine voting her?

[falcon45ca]

Definitely kinda.

It feels more like a throwaway remark, like “I am town!”, than a serious attempt to actually appear towny.

It just seems somewhat (perhaps … kinda?) excess to needs. Not sure what, if anything it means. Performative.

Kinda. Maybe.

Awe, now you appear to be deflecting from your take, and minimizing my criticism by making this a half joke post.



Kinda...but, no actually

I'm fine voting LC, Dizzy, SVS

Was there progression from not really thinking SVS was deflecting to being fine voting her?

Well, what I was doing was calling SVS out for deflecting, the kinda but no actually was sarcastic, based off her kinda back n' forth we'd had.






To clarify, I did think she was deflecting, which is why I was fine voting for her

[falcon45ca]

@Thunal33 I've expressed before that Epi going after Nut looks like partner distancing, can you look at their interactions and see what you think?

[Thunal33]

@Thunal33 I've expressed before that Epi going after Nut looks like partner distancing, can you look at their interactions and see what you think?

I’ll be gone for at least a few hours, but when I get back I will.

[falcon45ca]

@nutella Where you at?

[nutella]

.....Wtf scotty not being in f3 is a huge load off lol

I'll have some paranoia of thunal sink in since i was expecting her to die but wow

[nutella]

@nutella Where you at?

Im in quito actually suffering from altitude sickness but saw some pretty cool stuff today!! Off to the galapagos tomorrow

[nutella]

Fff i actually have to consider thunal here tho

[falcon45ca]

I don't need to solve which of you is Maf...I just need to find the one that's town




OK. That's the approach I'll be taking with your ISOs

[nutella]

also it's likely relevant that scotty heavily pushed thunal earlier in the game and if i died and he was in f3 with her he'd be the most inclined to get there

[nutella]

agh both of your d1 entries are rouuugghhh

thunals is like a bunch of awkward fluff and then lightly defending epi's early vote and pushing me for pushing him

additionally she was one of the first players to near- lock me town later in the game and i had light fear of tmi/pocketing at the time

[nutella]

i think my early instinct that falcon is town has borne out again the last couple days while thunal if wolf has kinda skated on the luck of being semi cleared....and just from being cw to epi?? like yes shes been pretty good at making towny sounding posts but i know thats in her range and it kinda....makes the whole game make sense, as it were

[nutella]

going to sleep on it and take one more look at isos tomorrow when i get a chance amidst travel stuff

expecting another ate wall or something