The Late Bronze Age Collapse [END]

#601

Thread locked

#602

Day 1 has ended.

@cat has been eliminated. They were:

Spoiler: show

Night 1 will last 24 hours. Flavor coming soon.

#603

Day 1 poll

Spoiler: show

#604

cat was the Minoan civilization.

The Minoans were master seafarers based on the Mediterranean island of Crete. Attributing their fall to the Late Bronze Age Collapse may be a slight misinterpretation, as many historians trace their destruction an eruption of Mount Thera (near present-day Santorini, Greece) in the mid 17th century BCE. This eruption is said to have thrown ash all over the Cretan landscape, and it was accompanied by major earthquakes. The Minoan people were unable to withstand the assault from nature, and their power waned considerably. Still, their culture and heritage survived on Crete for a few more centuries until the arrival of the Mycenaean Greeks. Minoan culture gradually assimilated with Greek, and they would meet their final dramatic decline together when in the 12th century the Mycenaeans succumbed to the various forces that this game is designed around.

Pictured: This is what remains of the ancient palace at Knossos, a major culture center of the Minoan world.

#605

Night 1 has ended.

@Michelle has been killed. She was:

Spoiler: show

Michelle was the Kassite dynasty period of the Babylonian civilization. The Babylonian people were inheritors of some of humanity's longest-enduring heritages, occupying the classical Fertile Crescent region of Mesopotamia previously held by the Sumerian and Akkadian peoples as early as the fourth or fifth millennium BCE. They are named for their legendary city of historical and Biblical significance, Babylon, on the Euphrates River. Babylon was the seat of the Old Babylonian empire from the 19th to 15th centuries BCE, before it was sacked by invading Hittites from the north. This created a power vacuum that was filled by the Kassite dynasty until approximately 1150 BCE, ripe for the period of the Late Bronze Age Collapse. The Kassites frequently intermarried with royals of the neighboring Elamites (precursors to the classical Persian empire, based at Susa in modern day Iran), and it was the Elamites that eventually brought on their destruction. Intra-familial power struggles paved the way for conflict, and this allows for the fall of the Kassites to be among the best-explained endings to the empires that fell in the Late Bronze Age Collapse. Shutruk-Nakhunte, king of Elam, attacked Bablyon, under the rule of Meli-Šipak II (his father-in-law), and the Kassites were no more. Elamite control was also short-lived, as the Egyptians routed them about half a century later.

@DrWilgy has been killed. He was:

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy was the Mycenaean Greeks. The timeline of our game is working out nicely to paint a coherent picture of the true Late Bronze Age Collapse. We just covered the end of the Minoan civilization at Crete, and I had said that their late period coincided and blended with that of the Mycenaean Greeks, who had essentially annexed their territory extending from the mainland peninsula. The Mycenaeans were the first significant power to emerge in Greece, and sometimes they are overlooked now after the great achievements and theatrics of their Athenian and Spartan descendants. Mycenae was a city-state in the Peloponnese, slightly southwest of the isthmus that separates northern Greece from southern. The Mycenaeans were ambitious colonialists, taking postures across the Aegean and east-Mediterranean seaboard including the previously mentioned Crete as well as Rhodes, Cyprus, and the western shores of Asia Minor. Indeed, the pseudo-historical story of the Trojan War likely recounts a conflict between Mycenaean invaders and Hittite settlers on the coast of present-day Turkey. The Mycenaeans waxed to glory and then fell abruptly, and their demise is among the most dramatic to lend the Late Bronze Age Collapse its name. What happened isn't entirely clear, but numerous factors are cited: famine, disease, and drought brought on by significant and unpredictable climate change (perhaps to be revisited later in this game), incursions from the island-faring Dorians, internal political upheaval and population movement, and attacks from the Sea Peoples, a bizarre composition of human life central to Late Bronze Age Collapse.

Day 2 begins and will last 48 hours. Still no hammer. Flavor soon.

#606

Cat: LinearPoint, S~V~S, falconca45
Guilltione: Cat, DrWilgy, Seanzie
S~V~S: Michelle, Master Radishes, Guillotine, Epignosis

I cannot for the life of me find a valid partner for S~V~S, so I don't think they are a wolf.

Falcon and Guillotine were both active EoD and neither made any effort to try and get the vote to go away from S~V~S. Falcon could easily just not unvoted Guillotine and Guillotine could have easily voted Cat instead.
Seanzie also made no effort to switch off Guillotine when it was becoming clear S~V~S was going to be the next target to be up for execution.
Epignosis actively wanted to keep their vote on S~V~S over Guillotine.
Only MR comes up as a potential candidate who just could not make EoD to unvote their partner, but I don't see that as a very likely world.

The only world I can see where Guillotine is a wolf here is if exactly Epignosis is their partner doing some theater EoD vote switching between Guillotine and S~V~S. Or if MR is just silently supporting Guillotine from the sidelines.
Everyone else had pretty ample opportunity to not allow Guillotine to even potentially be put up for a tied vote which they very nearly were put to 4.

I don't think a wolf was being voted at the end of day 1. I also think this means that the two wolves did not vote on the same wagon because they did not really need to.
Epignosis looks good for not choosing to put the Cop claim to 4 (unless like I said they are partners with Guillotine).
So 2 wolves in falcon, MR, and Seanzie.

Which I think MR is a wolf here with the N1 deaths. Even though it's not clear which was shot by Mafia and which was shot by a Vig, I think MR shooting either of them as a wolf makes sense with MR town lean reading both in #357. On that same coin Seanzie was questioning both Wilgy and Michelle for joining in their RVS of Guillotine so I don't really see why wolf!Seanzie would want either of them dead. Falcon has given off town vibes for a long while, I do not think they can only be wolf if I am right and Guillotine and S~V~S are both Town but Falcon not dying last night to Mafia is not what I expected with them being pretty universally town read; it should have been a nobrainer shot to just kill falcon and hope you killed the Power Role between me, Falcon, and S~V~S.

That's about all I can do for late night start of day theory crafting. That's my take on things. I'll sleep and see if I can come up with other possible worlds.

#607

wtf happened on day 1? Im pretty sure SvS had 4 votes

#608

and how is there two deaths in a 10 player set up?

#609

[VOTE: LinearPoint] aubergine

#610

Those two kills point at me as having motivation to kill them as they both pushed me together.

Which means scum went for WIFOM route.

This is gonna be my assumption if the vig shot is not claimed.

In my opinion Linear is scum with TMI and I don't think Linear comes here saying all wagons are were town in an organic way but it spews SVS town.

So the remaining scum is out my PoE from yesterday.

#611

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:34 am Those two kills point at me as having motivation to kill them as they both pushed me together.

Which means scum went for WIFOM route.

This is gonna be my assumption if the vig shot is not claimed.

In my opinion Linear is scum with TMI and I don't think Linear comes here saying all wagons are were town in an organic way but it spews SVS town.

So the remaining scum is out my PoE from yesterday.

Your intro to today looks very staged frankly.

1) It's painfully obvious how Cat died.

2) The kills don't point to you at all, if anything they point to MR.

3) WIFOM makes no sense. There was 2 outed Town Power Roles, I don't see why Mafia would WIFOM in that situation. They only WIFOM in the world where you are Mafia, know that the other Power Role was legit and were worried they'd be protected by a Doctor over you.

4) I don't think you know what TMI means. I'm actually not confident you know what WIFOM means either given the context you just used it in frankly.

It's quite hard to imagine a world where you aren't just Mafia who failed to notice the reason for Cat's death and made a poor night kill choice because of it. And now just trying to argue it was WIFOM because you want to save some face.

#612

The book I've been reading lately suggested that Minoan women may have ruled their society. Early (male) archaeologists dismissed the idea despite there being some evidence that the assembly spaces uncovered had associations with goddesses and a ceremony about menstruation. (I may be misrepresenting this, as I'm not double checking my book, only going off memory of what it said when I read this section a few days ago.)

#613

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:23 am and how is there two deaths in a 10 player set up?

Isn't that to be expected when there's an even number of players?

#614

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:31 am 1) It's painfully obvious how Cat died.

I wasn't very present for D1 and was sleep deprived when I was, so I don't know what happened either. Feel free to explain, if it's painfully obvious enough that everyone else knows.

#615

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:01 am Cat: LinearPoint, S~V~S, falconca45
Guilltione: Cat, DrWilgy, Seanzie
S~V~S: Michelle, Master Radishes, Guillotine, Epignosis

I cannot for the life of me find a valid partner for S~V~S, so I don't think they are a wolf.

Falcon and Guillotine were both active EoD and neither made any effort to try and get the vote to go away from S~V~S. Falcon could easily just not unvoted Guillotine and Guillotine could have easily voted Cat instead.
Seanzie also made no effort to switch off Guillotine when it was becoming clear S~V~S was going to be the next target to be up for execution.
Epignosis actively wanted to keep their vote on S~V~S over Guillotine.
Only MR comes up as a potential candidate who just could not make EoD to unvote their partner, but I don't see that as a very likely world.

The only world I can see where Guillotine is a wolf here is if exactly Epignosis is their partner doing some theater EoD vote switching between Guillotine and S~V~S. Or if MR is just silently supporting Guillotine from the sidelines.
Everyone else had pretty ample opportunity to not allow Guillotine to even potentially be put up for a tied vote which they very nearly were put to 4.

I don't think a wolf was being voted at the end of day 1.

I like your analysis up to this point. I'm not fully convinced on discounting Guillotine, as anyone who claims is probably not dying if townies are playing responsibly, but nonetheless I think there are multiple worlds in which it was a v/v/v scenario.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:01 am I also think this means that the two wolves did not vote on the same wagon because they did not really need to.
Epignosis looks good for not choosing to put the Cop claim to 4 (unless like I said they are partners with Guillotine).
So 2 wolves in falcon, MR, and Seanzie.

Which I think MR is a wolf here with the N1 deaths. Even though it's not clear which was shot by Mafia and which was shot by a Vig, I think MR shooting either of them as a wolf makes sense with MR town lean reading both in #357. On that same coin Seanzie was questioning both Wilgy and Michelle for joining in their RVS of Guillotine so I don't really see why wolf!Seanzie would want either of them dead. Falcon has given off town vibes for a long while, I do not think they can only be wolf if I am right and Guillotine and S~V~S are both Town but Falcon not dying last night to Mafia is not what I expected with them being pretty universally town read; it should have been a nobrainer shot to just kill falcon and hope you killed the Power Role between me, Falcon, and S~V~S.

You're beginning to make assumptions here, though. Your reason for discounting Epi is poor (w!Epi is smart enough not to vote out the cop claim). Your reason for discounting Falcon is poor ('he didn't die' is risky to apply on D2). Your reason for discounting Seanzie is lazy (w!Seanzie would have plenty of reasons for wanting either Michelle or Wilgy, two engaged and active town, dead).

Absolutely, I'd kill either Michelle or Wilgy if I were scum. They're good players who I'd be afraid of, especially Michelle. But so would a number of other players, for the same reason. It just feels a bit lazy to land on the low-poster as the most likely scum.

#616

Vigging either Michelle or Wilgy is...certainly a choice.

#617

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:57 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:31 am 1) It's painfully obvious how Cat died.
I wasn't very present for D1 and was sleep deprived when I was, so I don't know what happened either. Feel free to explain, if it's painfully obvious enough that everyone else knows.

I telegraphed quite heavily that I was going to be executing Cat day 1 in hopes that if Cat flipped Mafia if there was a Doc they would know to be on me. Vigilante obviously understood, otherwise they might have attempted to shoot into the Cat wagon.

I put things more clearly though. There was no votes for S~V~S yesterday. I was the only player Day 1 with any voting power.

Obviously I did missfire slightly, but I think we can all be given 1 free pass a game. I still standby my decision though, Cat was top of my wolf reads, and Epignosis voting off of Guillotine at the end makes them seem like wolf partners together. So I do thin kit was a successful use of my ability in the end.

#618

Granted I was expecting to die in the night since I see no real world where Mafia can successfully argue that a Mafia was given the ability to dictate the D1 execution.

But I am thinking they missed the telegraphed kill and shot in the dark.

#619

Which the fact that Guillotine both openly claimed that they missed my claim and are trying to push me when (imo) my role can't ever be Mafia in a 10p setup they are probably just Mafia who didn't realize they made a horrible choice in push target for day 2.

#620

Oh I see. Gotcha.

#621

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:07 am Granted I was expecting to die in the night since I see no real world where Mafia can successfully argue that a Mafia was given the ability to dictate the D1 execution.

But I am thinking they missed the telegraphed kill and shot in the dark.

In retrospect I see you hinting at it now, but it didn't feel obvious to me when skimming EoD myself. I could see other players not picking up on it as well.

I agree it is a likely town power here.

#622

Going back to this for a moment,

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:01 am Cat: LinearPoint, S~V~S, falconca45
Guilltione: Cat, DrWilgy, Seanzie
S~V~S: Michelle, Master Radishes, Guillotine, Epignosis

I cannot for the life of me find a valid partner for S~V~S, so I don't think they are a wolf.

Falcon and Guillotine were both active EoD and neither made any effort to try and get the vote to go away from S~V~S. Falcon could easily just not unvoted Guillotine and Guillotine could have easily voted Cat instead.
Seanzie also made no effort to switch off Guillotine when it was becoming clear S~V~S was going to be the next target to be up for execution.
Epignosis actively wanted to keep their vote on S~V~S over Guillotine.
Only MR comes up as a potential candidate who just could not make EoD to unvote their partner, but I don't see that as a very likely world.

I like your line of reasoning, but I'm not sure we can discount SVS too quickly. In a 2p scum team they're both going to be really concious of not being associated, and I could see that affecting how a scum partner plays around w!SVS in this sort of EoD scenario. E.g. Seanzie not having the threadpull to change things, or Falcon starting the Cat wagon to try a new tact of saving SVS, or MR panic bussing then falling asleep. I'd need to go back and re-read, though.

I agree that Epi is not paired with SVS, and Guillo is not the type of wolf partner to bus when there is a clear counterwagon (Cat) available. So options are limited, at least.

#623

To be honest I was debating for a long time if outing was a better play, but in the end I decided to wait and see how EoD wagon dynamics played out and just stuck to my gut choice.

I ended up just hinting at it, but did have a little fun with a few of the lines. It was very hard to not say "I'm not worried" when Michelle was panicking over a 3 way tie though.

#624

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:21 am Going back to this for a moment,

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:01 am Cat: LinearPoint, S~V~S, falconca45
Guilltione: Cat, DrWilgy, Seanzie
S~V~S: Michelle, Master Radishes, Guillotine, Epignosis

I cannot for the life of me find a valid partner for S~V~S, so I don't think they are a wolf.

Falcon and Guillotine were both active EoD and neither made any effort to try and get the vote to go away from S~V~S. Falcon could easily just not unvoted Guillotine and Guillotine could have easily voted Cat instead.
Seanzie also made no effort to switch off Guillotine when it was becoming clear S~V~S was going to be the next target to be up for execution.
Epignosis actively wanted to keep their vote on S~V~S over Guillotine.
Only MR comes up as a potential candidate who just could not make EoD to unvote their partner, but I don't see that as a very likely world.
I like your line of reasoning, but I'm not sure we can discount SVS too quickly. In a 2p scum team they're both going to be really concious of not being associated, and I could see that affecting how a scum partner plays around w!SVS in this sort of EoD scenario. E.g. Seanzie not having the threadpull to change things, or Falcon starting the Cat wagon to try a new tact of saving SVS, or MR panic bussing then falling asleep. I'd need to go back and re-read, though.

I agree that Epi is not paired with SVS, and Guillo is not the type of wolf partner to bus when there is a clear counterwagon (Cat) available. So options are limited, at least.

I do agree. Like I said I think if it is SVS then it's probably Falcon or Seanzie, but neither really seemed concerned for SVS at all. I mean obviously Mafia don't have to try and save their teammate. But SVS was getting majorly distanced if they are a wolf.

#625

I just don't know if I really think that wolves would just allow their partner to die that early and without a fight when it was not that hard of a lift form their perspective.

Heck SVS even was willing to die in place of a Parity Cop claim. It's really just the fact that there is no realistic partner for SVS and SVS's unwillingness to lift the vote off of themselves and onto Guillotine is Townie.

I guess, let me put it this way. Wolf!SVS almost certainly just suicides onto Guillotine in that scenario. They were dead to rights if my role was not in the game and they may as well take out the Cop with them.

#626

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:06 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:57 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:31 am 1) It's painfully obvious how Cat died.
I wasn't very present for D1 and was sleep deprived when I was, so I don't know what happened either. Feel free to explain, if it's painfully obvious enough that everyone else knows.
I telegraphed quite heavily that I was going to be executing Cat day 1 in hopes that if Cat flipped Mafia if there was a Doc they would know to be on me. Vigilante obviously understood, otherwise they might have attempted to shoot into the Cat wagon.

I put things more clearly though. There was no votes for S~V~S yesterday. I was the only player Day 1 with any voting power.

Obviously I did missfire slightly, but I think we can all be given 1 free pass a game. I still standby my decision though, Cat was top of my wolf reads, and Epignosis voting off of Guillotine at the end makes them seem like wolf partners together. So I do thin kit was a successful use of my ability in the end.

OK.

When I got back to thread (sorry for missing evenings 2 days in a row) and saw that I had the most votes, and I was not yeeted, I just assumed I was being set up to be the distraction, keeping the discussion on me one more day. Because it would be an easy assumption to make that woof SVS would do that, and I assumed everyone else would make it. I mean, I got shaded for not wanting to yeet the guy who role claimed.

I was all ready to come in here and tell y'all to just vote me (again) and spend the day talking about which way to turn when I flip vt since there is no hammer and the day still is 48 hours.

So, grateful you claimed here. I wasn't looking forward to being alive tbh.

#627

[VOTE: Guillo] aubergine

#628

*waiting for everyone to realize there is no way we have a pairity cop, a vig, and someone who controls the D1 elim in a 10er*

#629

I have a bit of tinfoil that LP is something like a double-voter rather than just controlling the elim, but the way they were telegraphing at EoD yesterday doesn't fit super well with that. In a mafia!LP world though, the fact that they went for Cat strongly suggests one of SVS or Guillo would be their partner, and looking at their ISO, they took both SVS and Guillo off the table, so meh, I guess that makes sense.

#630

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:11 am I have a bit of tinfoil that LP is something like a double-voter rather than just controlling the elim, but the way they were telegraphing at EoD yesterday doesn't fit super well with that. In a mafia!LP world though, the fact that they went for Cat strongly suggests one of SVS or Guillo would be their partner, and looking at their ISO, they took both SVS and Guillo off the table, so meh, I guess that makes sense.

That's a fair take. I'm fine if people want to put me down as a Doublevoter instead. It's pretty much mechanically speaking not different given I decided not to go with a vanity wagon.

But honestly I wanted my top suspicion dead and I would rather be conflated with a Doblevoter than have voted on something like SVS or Guillotine and just be assumed to have been a Vanilla by burying my ability to make it impossible to tell something was up. Especially since, if it's not obvious, my ability goes away after day 1 and I'd have no way to even attempt to try and prove I was at any point a Power Role (baring Town Role Cop which is almost never actually added to games).

#631

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:01 am *waiting for everyone to realize there is no way we have a pairity cop, a vig, and someone who controls the D1 elim in a 10er*

Yeah. I've been mulling over that. There can be up to five roles in a Heist so maybe the mafia have a roleblocker or something. Still feels potentially quite swingy if all those roles exist for town.

If I'm going to doubt any of them it's the parity cop. But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility one exists.

In the mean time, I'm waiting for a town vig to claim their hero shot.

#632

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:01 am *waiting for everyone to realize there is no way we have a pairity cop, a vig, and someone who controls the D1 elim in a 10er*

Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Has Guillo said if he's a 1x parity cop? A 1X parity cop would send two names in one time; a nightly parity cop checks one nights results against anothers, right? I am not super knowledgeable about this role. Wilgy, cat and Michelle all flipped VT; I'm VT. Would there be 3 1x use roles in a game this size? I wouldn't expect there to be any nightly powers (other than the wolf kill), but then, I don't have much experience in a game this small.

LP was pretty much the only person (except Wilgy) who mostly seemed to be engaging with me in good faith; they seemed to actually want to know why I said certain things as opposed to just making assumptions, especially after I got defensive (which was pretty much out of the gate). LP and Wilgy both felt like they were trying to solve, not just wave pitchforks around (and in retrospect, cat WAS giving me BOTD, which i read as wolf TMI, sorry cat), and you, Sean, weren't really there when I was, so we never really interacted.

Everyone else felt a tad "rabble rabble" to me.

I have to reread after errands.

#633

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:01 am *waiting for everyone to realize there is no way we have a pairity cop, a vig, and someone who controls the D1 elim in a 10er*

The conclusion I've reached is that I think Vigilante could realistically be either alignment in a 10P game. Without a Vigilante the game goes to 4v2 naturally if Town does not hit a Mafia for the first 2 days, so a Vigilante doesn't really throw off balance regardless of their alignment. That being said Mafia Vigilante would imply we have some really strong Town Roles that Mafia might want sniped. With my role being a D1 role that can't be prevented by a Vig shot beforehand and the other power role being claimed is a Parity Cop with a limitation I don't know if I'd consider us to have strong Town roles Mafia could vig.

And about that Parity Cop limitation. I'm quite curious as to what they claim it to be since Parity Cop (in my opinion) is by far the weakest Cop variant already. They already need to survive 2 days and nights to get their info and by that point it could easily be too late, doubly so if it turns out that the Vigilante is not limited in their shots.

#634

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:01 am *waiting for everyone to realize there is no way we have a pairity cop, a vig, and someone who controls the D1 elim in a 10er*

Just because you dont believe it not does not mean it is not true.

Yesterday i gavebyou a pass because you do this on day 1 and you were busy, im not gonna let use use the sane excuse all game, if you ate really busy and cant play the game, you know what you can do, otherwise, play the game and give me a readlist.

#635

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:42 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:01 am *waiting for everyone to realize there is no way we have a pairity cop, a vig, and someone who controls the D1 elim in a 10er*
Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Has Guillo said if he's a 1x parity cop? A 1X parity cop would send two names in one time; a nightly parity cop checks one nights results against anothers, right? I am not super knowledgeable about this role.

I have not said any of the sort nor will i reveal any of my role.

#636

If linearpoint is a double voter and went against the concensus, they must be eliminated. They went against the will of the majority

#637

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:29 pm If linearpoint is a double voter and went against the concensus, they must be eliminated. They went against the will of the majority

They've not claimed double voter. There's no point speculating.

#638

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:29 pm If linearpoint is a double voter and went against the concensus, they must be eliminated. They went against the will of the majority

No real offense or anything, but if you actually believe I am Mafia why would you suddenly be Town reading SVS today?

Heck by your logic we might as well execute the Vigilante today too since they clearly also killed a Town.

#639

Also people go against the will of the majority all the time. If we do have a town vig that person also went against the will of the majority, as neither Michelle nor Wilgy were consensus suspects .

#640

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:32 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:11 am I have a bit of tinfoil that LP is something like a double-voter rather than just controlling the elim, but the way they were telegraphing at EoD yesterday doesn't fit super well with that. In a mafia!LP world though, the fact that they went for Cat strongly suggests one of SVS or Guillo would be their partner, and looking at their ISO, they took both SVS and Guillo off the table, so meh, I guess that makes sense.
That's a fair take. I'm fine if people want to put me down as a Doublevoter instead. It's pretty much mechanically speaking not different given I decided not to go with a vanity wagon.

But honestly I wanted my top suspicion dead and I would rather be conflated with a Doblevoter than have voted on something like SVS or Guillotine and just be assumed to have been a Vanilla by burying my ability to make it impossible to tell something was up. Especially since, if it's not obvious, my ability goes away after day 1 and I'd have no way to even attempt to try and prove I was at any point a Power Role (baring Town Role Cop which is almost never actually added to games).

@Master Radishes tjey didnt bother to contest it

#641

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:32 pm Also people go against the will of the majority all the time. If we do have a town vig that person also went against the will of the majority, as neither Michelle nor Wilgy were consensus suspects .

Hence why the vig must claim, since they have not claimed i will assume the vig is mafia too or the vig is throwing if town.

#642

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:42 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:01 am *waiting for everyone to realize there is no way we have a pairity cop, a vig, and someone who controls the D1 elim in a 10er*
Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Has Guillo said if he's a 1x parity cop? A 1X parity cop would send two names in one time; a nightly parity cop checks one nights results against anothers, right? I am not super knowledgeable about this role. Wilgy, cat and Michelle all flipped VT; I'm VT. Would there be 3 1x use roles in a game this size? I wouldn't expect there to be any nightly powers (other than the wolf kill), but then, I don't have much experience in a game this small.

LP was pretty much the only person (except Wilgy) who mostly seemed to be engaging with me in good faith; they seemed to actually want to know why I said certain things as opposed to just making assumptions, especially after I got defensive (which was pretty much out of the gate). LP and Wilgy both felt like they were trying to solve, not just wave pitchforks around (and in retrospect, cat WAS giving me BOTD, which i read as wolf TMI, sorry cat), and you, Sean, weren't really there when I was, so we never really interacted.

Everyone else felt a tad "rabble rabble" to me.

I have to reread after errands.

Assuming that you are town, from your pov, all three wagons were town if you still hold your townread on me.

Who is mafia then?

#643

And if Seanzie is town, it is obvious Seanzie is the vig, who is voting me because i cannot be a pr with him according to his beliefs.

@Seanzie

This is why i townread you yesterday but i dont care about keeping your secret no more! So why did you kill Wilgy if you scum read me yesterday?

#644

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:32 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:32 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:11 am I have a bit of tinfoil that LP is something like a double-voter rather than just controlling the elim, but the way they were telegraphing at EoD yesterday doesn't fit super well with that. In a mafia!LP world though, the fact that they went for Cat strongly suggests one of SVS or Guillo would be their partner, and looking at their ISO, they took both SVS and Guillo off the table, so meh, I guess that makes sense.
That's a fair take. I'm fine if people want to put me down as a Doublevoter instead. It's pretty much mechanically speaking not different given I decided not to go with a vanity wagon.

But honestly I wanted my top suspicion dead and I would rather be conflated with a Doblevoter than have voted on something like SVS or Guillotine and just be assumed to have been a Vanilla by burying my ability to make it impossible to tell something was up. Especially since, if it's not obvious, my ability goes away after day 1 and I'd have no way to even attempt to try and prove I was at any point a Power Role (baring Town Role Cop which is almost never actually added to games).
@Master Radishes tjey didnt bother to contest it

Just because I said I agree the two roles are mechanically indistinguishable doesn't mean I'm claiming it. I mean if we really are being pedantic SVS could have been a role that redirects the execute away from them.

JJJ did not state any reason why Cat was executed other than they just were.

I think there is enough evidence that I'm not a Doublevoter with the game flavor being based on civilization, a king-like role makes sense and I thought was thematically quite funny. Also the fact I was very much saying that I had full faith Cat was going to be executed day 1. But I really do not think it is important to debate or speculate over what exactly I did day 1, so that's why I'm fine being called a Doublevoter. Regardless I have only a single vote today so it quite literally makes no difference in my eyes.

I would rather you attempt to push me out of a genuine scum read though and not just because I "went against the majority" when my ability quite literally tells me to go against the will of the majority to maximize it's value. As I said I think my decision was a good one, you even agreed at the end of day 1 that Cat was in PoE. I do not think you are in a position to criticize me for killing Cat because as far as I am aware I more or less had permission since Wilgy was the only one I saw speaking out against the possibility of Cat being evil.

#645

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:40 pm PoE

SvS
Cat
Wilgy
LP

If chopping through does not win the game we are fucked

#646

We can argue all day that I should have just guessed one of the Mafia instead of guessing a Vanilla Townie. I don't think it's productive.

What's done is done, I think solve from there is more productive than what could have been.

If you actually believe me to be a Mafia Doublevoter though, I think you should kill my only likely partner SVS instead.

#647

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:45 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:32 pm
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:32 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:11 am I have a bit of tinfoil that LP is something like a double-voter rather than just controlling the elim, but the way they were telegraphing at EoD yesterday doesn't fit super well with that. In a mafia!LP world though, the fact that they went for Cat strongly suggests one of SVS or Guillo would be their partner, and looking at their ISO, they took both SVS and Guillo off the table, so meh, I guess that makes sense.
That's a fair take. I'm fine if people want to put me down as a Doublevoter instead. It's pretty much mechanically speaking not different given I decided not to go with a vanity wagon.

But honestly I wanted my top suspicion dead and I would rather be conflated with a Doblevoter than have voted on something like SVS or Guillotine and just be assumed to have been a Vanilla by burying my ability to make it impossible to tell something was up. Especially since, if it's not obvious, my ability goes away after day 1 and I'd have no way to even attempt to try and prove I was at any point a Power Role (baring Town Role Cop which is almost never actually added to games).
@Master Radishes tjey didnt bother to contest it
Just because I said I agree the two roles are mechanically indistinguishable doesn't mean I'm claiming it. I mean if we really are being pedantic SVS could have been a role that redirects the execute away from them.

JJJ did not state any reason why Cat was executed other than they just were.

I think there is enough evidence that I'm not a Doublevoter with the game flavor being based on civilization, a king-like role makes sense and I thought was thematically quite funny. Also the fact I was very much saying that I had full faith Cat was going to be executed day 1. But I really do not think it is important to debate or speculate over what exactly I did day 1, so that's why I'm fine being called a Doublevoter. Regardless I have only a single vote today so it quite literally makes no difference in my eyes.

I would rather you attempt to push me out of a genuine scum read though and not just because I "went against the majority" when my ability quite literally tells me to go against the will of the majority to maximize it's value. As I said I think my decision was a good one, you even agreed at the end of day 1 that Cat was in PoE. I do not think you are in a position to criticize me for killing Cat because as far as I am aware I more or less had permission since Wilgy was the only one I saw speaking out against the possibility of Cat being evil.

My scum read on you is genuine, i voiced it yesterday. I still dont trust you, my gut sensirs say you are evil so im gonna get you killed or be killed, it is as simple as that so i guess if you want to survive you are also goona have to vote me out.

I said yesterday thatnif was not kill i would do an 180 on my reads, i lied.

Im making no 180s until one of you flips scum.

#648

I mean no one is saying you made a bad choice, LP. Cat was a justifiable yeet.

#649

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:46 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:40 pm PoE

SvS
Cat
Wilgy
LP

If chopping through does not win the game we are fucked

Looks like we might be fucked then!

#650

I was not questioning cat getting yeeted organically but if you had something to do with it through mechanics, you must get killed even though cat was in my poe.

Day 3