Severance [Evening Four]

[MacDougall]

Holy crosspost

[robyn]

@leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

they struck me as me, similar to me but taken to an extreme level, and i think that mental model works

also makes “why are you so aggressive?” simply personality and not something to read into

which i think is correct

[leetic]

@leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

Because you don't catch wolves by sitting on your ass

[MacDougall]

leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

[MacDougall]

@leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

they struck me as me, similar to me but taken to an extreme level, and i think that mental model works

also makes “why are you so aggressive?” simply personality and not something to read into

which i think is correct

I have played with leetic before and have not patterned to memory an experience of them being like this.

I disagree with your premise and I would rather leetic speak for themselves pocketing wolf.

[MacDougall]

@leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

Because you don't catch wolves by sitting on your ass

Well the question isn't why are you sitting on your ass, my question is why you are being so aggressive, or to put it in other words, hostile and uncharitable? You are obviously not sitting on your ass but from my perspective a handful of players have been driving the game forward, solving it, asking good questions and being helpful and you came into the game and took aim directly at exactly them.

[WindwardAway]

it would have been so much easier if there was one thread

You have to keep up with both threads at the same time?

what a wolfy post lol

i play mashes and having more people is actually easier to catch wolves. that's what i meant. i don't see any obvious wolf here without meta

I have the exact opposite experience with mashes lol
I thought I had a gotcha if you were in two threads and I was only in one, but yeah if you just meant you're a mash player then never mind

[robyn]

@leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

they struck me as me, similar to me but taken to an extreme level, and i think that mental model works

also makes “why are you so aggressive?” simply personality and not something to read into

which i think is correct

I have played with leetic before and have not patterned to memory an experience of them being like this.

I disagree with your premise and I would rather leetic speak for themselves pocketing wolf.

can you link the game

[WindwardAway]

These people are town and if you vote them you have mad skill issues

RondoDimBuckle - I'm holding on to my DubZ read for now but I also think that the way Rondo entered the thread is just to blatant to come from a wolf in any world especially the play around the Gira wagon. Rondo is Rondo and Rondo is town.

Gira - I admit I didn't have s town read on Gira till this catch up but the posts today were thought out and focused and solvy and genuine yummy yummy feed me more

leetic - unfortunately this unwavering commitment to the game having to be unfun and focused solely on solving and playing the game is probably towny yep yep no fun in no mafia game ever

Mac - entrance towny. Mac towny. I would have town read Mac anyways lol but that was good methinks

Ranmilia - I was scared of her at first and kinda worried she was wolfing but the real time I had with her felt good to me she was relaxed and towny and her helping me understand the entrance was towny imho too. I guess maybe not but eh fuck it I think it was. The frustration and read on Dyslexicon feels real and pure and I can't scum read it

WindwardAway - the opening argument with leetic was T v T everything WWA has done since than has been in their town meta also they are cute and based so auto town



Notes for Clarity!

I dropped Bereft out of this list because I was thinking back to the game I wolfed with him in and I remember he low posted and slanked I had thought however that his posts in that game were more intentional than they have been here however looking back in my sober state I realize that he really didn't do much and even noted post game that he shouldn't have ever lived as long as he did be cause he did nothing. Last game here he was town and he provided a value he's not providing here.

I think I would town read robyn here normally but I'm nervous because I'm not sure how much of that is just an effect of last game and how much of that is a real thought so I am holding off

My one concern with Leetic is I feel like this play style is easy to hide behind and fake as a wolf. I think the vote on Pyxxy was bad. I don't town read pyxxy but it felt reactive and opportunistic too me and iirc took leetic off a lead wagon onto a vanity it's early though and I'm probably dumb

I do have mad skill issues, I'll take that as a compliment. :P

I don't like leetic's vote but I think it follows up pretty consistently with what seems to be his solving style. I wouldn't necessarily say that voting a vanity wagon rather than a lead wagon looks bad, although it's gonna depend on what flips we eventually see.

On that topic - do you think there's any chance leetic and pyxxy could've been theatring?

Possibility sure probability unlikely though

Why do you want to have skill issue?

Because I suck at mafia and would like to continue to suck

[leetic]

leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

It's easier to navigate for wolves when nobody is pushing anyone. Wolves thrive on predictability and hedginess, you have to actually push them to get anything meaningful done. What exactly are you doing to push the game forward?

[WindwardAway]

i wanted to instantly call mac mafia off his entrance cuz it'd be funny for him to be frozen obvscum but i think his posts after that are okay. hope to see more!

I don't have a read on bereft. It would be bizarre to have one on bereft. I think if bereft keeps posting the way he has he should be policy eliminated.

to build from an earlier post, I don't think robyn has towntold so far this game - while I found their earlier posts unobjectionable I can't recall a single thing they've done that's been explicitly towny and as i start to read other players as town the lacjk of towniness becomes, in and of itself, suspicious. this is a gut feeling and i could totally be wrong, i am going to reread to see if that suspicion holds merit, but that is where my head is at. don't think any of the reasons given so far for townreading them are especially compelling.

I thought the idea that Robyn isn't playing an ego wolf game was a decent argument but I guess you still think Ran is scum? Do you think they could be defending each other as wolf partners?

i never expressed a scumread on ran

i leaned town on her early posts but did not verbalize it. i was somewhat taken aback by her response to dizzy because the reaction seemed rather disproportionate to what was effectively dizzy flicking crumpled up paper at ran, but i questioned her about it and thought the response expressed a town mindset.

BTW, i forgot to mention it but i will be unavailable for EOD and at least several hours prior to it due to IRL obligations. I thought I had avoided it with this game's start time but the day 0 phase threw things off. it should not affect subsequent days at least for a while.

if i put together a mental stack of the game it looks something like this

{wind, leetic}
{abigail, ran, dizzy}
{pyxxy, ted, mac}
{tsp, bereft, rondo}
{robyn}

the dizzy read is probably the wildest and i certainly could be wrong but my instinct is still that his approach to the game is not a scum motivated one. honestly the way abigail was defending me was an approach i've seen scum take but i thinkfor her it's pretty normal so not concerned

bereft and rondo are really kind of tossups, i wouldn't be super shocked if either flips town, to give a picture of my confidence level there. tsp had the one sequence i like but otherwise his posting is a whole lot of nothing. i think it's ~fairly improbable though that mafia are choosing to stack on me, that's just not a thing that typically happens. wouldn't be surprised if there's a mafia in the middle tier i'm being overly generous to for doing the bare minimum.

Oh, this answered part of my previous question.
Tbh when I looked at the wagon votes before I placed mine, I liked the voters on the Dizzy wagon slightly more than the voters on your wagon but decided that shouldn't influence my vote
Maybe it's a bit early for this question, but if Robyn flips scum, would that influence your reads on Bereft or Ranmilia?

preflips on day 1 are bad and usually wrong

however - i think bereft is unlikely to be scum with robyn based on robyn's posting about him, and i kind of oddly like his last posts after i made my list - yeah there's not a lot there but it's expressing something and it feels like he has his own idiosyncratic view of the game. not locktown forever but i kind of want to let him do his thing for a bit now

---

I am interested in whether 12-3 mountainous is easier or harder than like 23-6s

mountainous at 29 players would be effectively unwinnable for town

Yeah I think I misread your surprise at Ran pushing Dizzy as a scumread, my bad

I agree with your Bereft take, as per your answer to my question

[MacDougall]

@leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

they struck me as me, similar to me but taken to an extreme level, and i think that mental model works

also makes “why are you so aggressive?” simply personality and not something to read into

which i think is correct

I have played with leetic before and have not patterned to memory an experience of them being like this.

I disagree with your premise and I would rather leetic speak for themselves pocketing wolf.

can you link the game

No. There are quite a few, and you are just reaching for some flotsam to cling for because I'm drowning you with no effort lol.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

to be explicit, sure, he could be mafia, he could also just be the easiest vote for you to push as mafia based on a meta case

do i need to pull up 3-5 games where i auto townread him as both alignments off a couple posts and shield him the entire game from opportunistic pushes, as well as pull up messages from schweppes stating 1) i know him the best 2) i know exactly what to look for in reading him, to make this read meaningful?

because i could

most people in this list can remember a time of me hard defending schweppes/bereft so it is the opposite of opportunistic for me

no i'm probably just gonna sit on my ass and let you kill him because i don't doubt you'll succeed

Hot

[WindwardAway]

i wanted to instantly call mac mafia off his entrance cuz it'd be funny for him to be frozen obvscum but i think his posts after that are okay. hope to see more!

I don't have a read on bereft. It would be bizarre to have one on bereft. I think if bereft keeps posting the way he has he should be policy eliminated.

to build from an earlier post, I don't think robyn has towntold so far this game - while I found their earlier posts unobjectionable I can't recall a single thing they've done that's been explicitly towny and as i start to read other players as town the lacjk of towniness becomes, in and of itself, suspicious. this is a gut feeling and i could totally be wrong, i am going to reread to see if that suspicion holds merit, but that is where my head is at. don't think any of the reasons given so far for townreading them are especially compelling.

I thought the idea that Robyn isn't playing an ego wolf game was a decent argument but I guess you still think Ran is scum? Do you think they could be defending each other as wolf partners?

i never expressed a scumread on ran

i leaned town on her early posts but did not verbalize it. i was somewhat taken aback by her response to dizzy because the reaction seemed rather disproportionate to what was effectively dizzy flicking crumpled up paper at ran, but i questioned her about it and thought the response expressed a town mindset.

BTW, i forgot to mention it but i will be unavailable for EOD and at least several hours prior to it due to IRL obligations. I thought I had avoided it with this game's start time but the day 0 phase threw things off. it should not affect subsequent days at least for a while.

if i put together a mental stack of the game it looks something like this

{wind, leetic}
{abigail, ran, dizzy}
{pyxxy, ted, mac}
{tsp, bereft, rondo}
{robyn}

the dizzy read is probably the wildest and i certainly could be wrong but my instinct is still that his approach to the game is not a scum motivated one. honestly the way abigail was defending me was an approach i've seen scum take but i thinkfor her it's pretty normal so not concerned

bereft and rondo are really kind of tossups, i wouldn't be super shocked if either flips town, to give a picture of my confidence level there. tsp had the one sequence i like but otherwise his posting is a whole lot of nothing. i think it's ~fairly improbable though that mafia are choosing to stack on me, that's just not a thing that typically happens. wouldn't be surprised if there's a mafia in the middle tier i'm being overly generous to for doing the bare minimum.

Oh, this answered part of my previous question.
Tbh when I looked at the wagon votes before I placed mine, I liked the voters on the Dizzy wagon slightly more than the voters on your wagon but decided that shouldn't influence my vote
Maybe it's a bit early for this question, but if Robyn flips scum, would that influence your reads on Bereft or Ranmilia?

preflips on day 1 are bad and usually wrong

however - i think bereft is unlikely to be scum with robyn based on robyn's posting about him, and i kind of oddly like his last posts after i made my list - yeah there's not a lot there but it's expressing something and it feels like he has his own idiosyncratic view of the game. not locktown forever but i kind of want to let him do his thing for a bit now

---

I am interested in whether 12-3 mountainous is easier or harder than like 23-6s

mountainous at 29 players would be effectively unwinnable for town

this schweppes read is insanely conf biased

You're good at reading him, what's your current take?

[tedxtr]

i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I didn't know or had forgotten Bereft was Schweppes. It's kind of a little bit townier now that I do.

TOE

Abigail
Gira
Ran
Wind

POE

Robyn
Dizzy
Tedxtr

Yay me but why am I so high?

[WindwardAway]

(i am an easy mischop based off experience ftr)

You're an easy push but I thought you were actually tough to mischop

[WindwardAway]

anyway gira feels town and i only voted them because tsp did too

[VOTE: Bereft] aubergine

this is where i wanna go, because contrary to what gira thinks, schweppes has produced 0 content and doesn’t have a worldview, and hasn’t made any long drawn out observations like town him does

@Gira go read tacky matrix game and spec chat invitational, then 1-2 other schweppes games for meta

he is someone where i believe a meta read works and he’s someone i can insta read

Nvm that answered my question, thanks

[MacDougall]

leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

It's easier to navigate for wolves when nobody is pushing anyone. Wolves thrive on predictability and hedginess, you have to actually push them to get anything meaningful done. What exactly are you doing to push the game forward?

I am presently trying to work out your alignment while allowing Robyn to bury themselves by simply existing. I'm also figuring out my base readslist and am currently trying to slot Pyxxy and you into the list I created earlier. I read your ISO to do so and noticed you had a lot of negative interactions with my townies.

[robyn]

i wanted to instantly call mac mafia off his entrance cuz it'd be funny for him to be frozen obvscum but i think his posts after that are okay. hope to see more!

I don't have a read on bereft. It would be bizarre to have one on bereft. I think if bereft keeps posting the way he has he should be policy eliminated.

to build from an earlier post, I don't think robyn has towntold so far this game - while I found their earlier posts unobjectionable I can't recall a single thing they've done that's been explicitly towny and as i start to read other players as town the lacjk of towniness becomes, in and of itself, suspicious. this is a gut feeling and i could totally be wrong, i am going to reread to see if that suspicion holds merit, but that is where my head is at. don't think any of the reasons given so far for townreading them are especially compelling.

I thought the idea that Robyn isn't playing an ego wolf game was a decent argument but I guess you still think Ran is scum? Do you think they could be defending each other as wolf partners?

i never expressed a scumread on ran

i leaned town on her early posts but did not verbalize it. i was somewhat taken aback by her response to dizzy because the reaction seemed rather disproportionate to what was effectively dizzy flicking crumpled up paper at ran, but i questioned her about it and thought the response expressed a town mindset.

BTW, i forgot to mention it but i will be unavailable for EOD and at least several hours prior to it due to IRL obligations. I thought I had avoided it with this game's start time but the day 0 phase threw things off. it should not affect subsequent days at least for a while.

if i put together a mental stack of the game it looks something like this

{wind, leetic}
{abigail, ran, dizzy}
{pyxxy, ted, mac}
{tsp, bereft, rondo}
{robyn}

the dizzy read is probably the wildest and i certainly could be wrong but my instinct is still that his approach to the game is not a scum motivated one. honestly the way abigail was defending me was an approach i've seen scum take but i thinkfor her it's pretty normal so not concerned

bereft and rondo are really kind of tossups, i wouldn't be super shocked if either flips town, to give a picture of my confidence level there. tsp had the one sequence i like but otherwise his posting is a whole lot of nothing. i think it's ~fairly improbable though that mafia are choosing to stack on me, that's just not a thing that typically happens. wouldn't be surprised if there's a mafia in the middle tier i'm being overly generous to for doing the bare minimum.

Oh, this answered part of my previous question.
Tbh when I looked at the wagon votes before I placed mine, I liked the voters on the Dizzy wagon slightly more than the voters on your wagon but decided that shouldn't influence my vote
Maybe it's a bit early for this question, but if Robyn flips scum, would that influence your reads on Bereft or Ranmilia?

preflips on day 1 are bad and usually wrong

however - i think bereft is unlikely to be scum with robyn based on robyn's posting about him, and i kind of oddly like his last posts after i made my list - yeah there's not a lot there but it's expressing something and it feels like he has his own idiosyncratic view of the game. not locktown forever but i kind of want to let him do his thing for a bit now

---

I am interested in whether 12-3 mountainous is easier or harder than like 23-6s

mountainous at 29 players would be effectively unwinnable for town

this schweppes read is insanely conf biased

You're good at reading him, what's your current take?

d1 chop where if he flips town i eat the chop immediately after, that’s scenario of me pushing him due to everyone knowing my schweppes read is on tight

[leetic]

leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

It's easier to navigate for wolves when nobody is pushing anyone. Wolves thrive on predictability and hedginess, you have to actually push them to get anything meaningful done. What exactly are you doing to push the game forward?

I am presently trying to work out your alignment while allowing Robyn to bury themselves by simply existing. I'm also figuring out my base readslist and am currently trying to slot Pyxxy and you into the list I created earlier. I read your ISO to do so and noticed you had a lot of negative interactions with my townies.

How am I supposed to determine if someone is town if I don't push them?

[WindwardAway]

Ok concert about to start, bbl

[MacDougall]

I didn't know or had forgotten Bereft was Schweppes. It's kind of a little bit townier now that I do.

TOE

Abigail
Gira
Ran
Wind

POE

Robyn
Dizzy
Tedxtr

Yay me but why am I so high?

There are two lists. They aren't sorted. You are simply in the town one.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

These people are town and if you vote them you have mad skill issues

RondoDimBuckle - I'm holding on to my DubZ read for now but I also think that the way Rondo entered the thread is just to blatant to come from a wolf in any world especially the play around the Gira wagon. Rondo is Rondo and Rondo is town.

Gira - I admit I didn't have s town read on Gira till this catch up but the posts today were thought out and focused and solvy and genuine yummy yummy feed me more

leetic - unfortunately this unwavering commitment to the game having to be unfun and focused solely on solving and playing the game is probably towny yep yep no fun in no mafia game ever

Mac - entrance towny. Mac towny. I would have town read Mac anyways lol but that was good methinks

Ranmilia - I was scared of her at first and kinda worried she was wolfing but the real time I had with her felt good to me she was relaxed and towny and her helping me understand the entrance was towny imho too. I guess maybe not but eh fuck it I think it was. The frustration and read on Dyslexicon feels real and pure and I can't scum read it

WindwardAway - the opening argument with leetic was T v T everything WWA has done since than has been in their town meta also they are cute and based so auto town



Notes for Clarity!

I dropped Bereft out of this list because I was thinking back to the game I wolfed with him in and I remember he low posted and slanked I had thought however that his posts in that game were more intentional than they have been here however looking back in my sober state I realize that he really didn't do much and even noted post game that he shouldn't have ever lived as long as he did be cause he did nothing. Last game here he was town and he provided a value he's not providing here.

I think I would town read robyn here normally but I'm nervous because I'm not sure how much of that is just an effect of last game and how much of that is a real thought so I am holding off

My one concern with Leetic is I feel like this play style is easy to hide behind and fake as a wolf. I think the vote on Pyxxy was bad. I don't town read pyxxy but it felt reactive and opportunistic too me and iirc took leetic off a lead wagon onto a vanity it's early though and I'm probably dumb

I do have mad skill issues, I'll take that as a compliment. :P

I don't like leetic's vote but I think it follows up pretty consistently with what seems to be his solving style. I wouldn't necessarily say that voting a vanity wagon rather than a lead wagon looks bad, although it's gonna depend on what flips we eventually see.

On that topic - do you think there's any chance leetic and pyxxy could've been theatring?

Possibility sure probability unlikely though

Why do you want to have skill issue?

Because I suck at mafia and would like to continue to suck

Fucking liar

[robyn]

mmmm this game suddenly feels unsafe

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I didn't know or had forgotten Bereft was Schweppes. It's kind of a little bit townier now that I do.

TOE

Abigail
Gira
Ran
Wind

POE

Robyn
Dizzy
Tedxtr

Yay me but why am I so high?

There are two lists. They aren't sorted. You are simply in the town one.

Awe much more depressing

[leetic]

i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions

I get that a lot, but the point of pushing in the early game is to generate interactions that I can look back on to read later. My more analytical play comes later in the game after we have some flips. I'll ask you a question: What are your thoughts on the two biggest wagons right now, Dyslexicon and robyn?

[tedxtr]

i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions

I get that a lot, but the point of pushing in the early game is to generate interactions that I can look back on to read later. My more analytical play comes later in the game after we have some flips. I'll ask you a question: What are your thoughts on the two biggest wagons right now, Dyslexicon and robyn?

i've already talked about robyn

and dizzy it's too early to say and too little content to sort anything. i kinda dont like he hopped on robyn from a ranmilia push. it feels like the equivalent of swapping from voting a 500 poster to the 0 poster, and ik it's a wild analysis since robyn has more posts, but the point is that a ranmilia wolf read requires depth of thought, and one for robyn doesn't

[leetic]

i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions

I get that a lot, but the point of pushing in the early game is to generate interactions that I can look back on to read later. My more analytical play comes later in the game after we have some flips. I'll ask you a question: What are your thoughts on the two biggest wagons right now, Dyslexicon and robyn?

i've already talked about robyn

and dizzy it's too early to say and too little content to sort anything. i kinda dont like he hopped on robyn from a ranmilia push. it feels like the equivalent of swapping from voting a 500 poster to the 0 poster, and ik it's a wild analysis since robyn has more posts, but the point is that a ranmilia wolf read requires depth of thought, and one for robyn doesn't

If Dyslexicon is a wolf, how do you think that would reflect on Ranmilla's alignment?

[MacDougall]

leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

It's easier to navigate for wolves when nobody is pushing anyone. Wolves thrive on predictability and hedginess, you have to actually push them to get anything meaningful done. What exactly are you doing to push the game forward?

I am presently trying to work out your alignment while allowing Robyn to bury themselves by simply existing. I'm also figuring out my base readslist and am currently trying to slot Pyxxy and you into the list I created earlier. I read your ISO to do so and noticed you had a lot of negative interactions with my townies.

How am I supposed to determine if someone is town if I don't push them?

This is a fairly bad question and shows you're not really engaging me in good faith.

I'm not curious as to why you're pushing people I'm curious as to why the tone in doing so is so needlessly hostile. My view is that players like Ran and Wind are doing the most typical and reasonable "general purpose" solving of the game and you entered it like a tornado targeting exactly them. Going as far as to say their solving specifically was bad. From my perspective this could have and maybe did have the effect of discouraging the players I feel are the most towny from doing the things most towny. Instead of taking issue with players like Bereft and Dizzy for instance who are doing entirely not towny things you came in complaining about the quality of play being displayed by those displaying quality play?

At any rate you can read people without necessarily pushing them. I have reads on lots of people I've not pushed. It's there in the word reading.

[tedxtr]

probably a good look for ran, if dizzy is a wolf

[tedxtr]

i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions

I get that a lot, but the point of pushing in the early game is to generate interactions that I can look back on to read later. My more analytical play comes later in the game after we have some flips. I'll ask you a question: What are your thoughts on the two biggest wagons right now, Dyslexicon and robyn?

so you're saying that you post completely random stuff just to get reactions? like you don't even internalize the responses?

[MacDougall]

also rondo, mac has 0 posted so far

I dont care. Mac could be mafia this game and I am going to tank for him because I am just happy to be in a game with him for once in a long time. So if he is bad this game gotta kill me first

Aw you're such a sweetheart and so obviously not mafia.

[leetic]

I'm not curious as to why you're pushing people I'm curious as to why the tone in doing so is so needlessly hostile. My view is that players like Ran and Wind are doing the most typical and reasonable "general purpose" solving of the game and you entered it like a tornado targeting exactly them. Going as far as to say their solving specifically was bad. From my perspective this could have and maybe did have the effect of discouraging the players I feel are the most towny from doing the things most towny. Instead of taking issue with players like Bereft and Dizzy for instance who are doing entirely not towny things you came in complaining about the quality of play being displayed by those displaying quality play?

A lot of this feels like CWAC and bad faith itself. I'm allowed to criticize the Windward and Ranmilla's posts, especially when they come in criticizing me! What exact standard are you calling their play "quality" and mine not? Further, if it is truly as "quality" as you say they are, shouldn't they be able to defend themselves easily? A push from an idiot shouldn't stop an actually good player from contributing! Overall, this reads as "rules for thee, but not for me" and a lame attempt at shading-without-actually-shading.

[MacDougall]

Oh I'm here if anyone wants to point at things and ask me to talk about them

me/myself/i

why are you not hype to play with me Mac? Is this love one sided? Whats going on?

Well it's probably a mix of a few things.

1. I am quite.
2. I am playing with a few people I've not played with in a while.
3. I don't really show hype much.
4. I had beers.

[robyn]

mmmm this game suddenly feels unsafe

i expected to find schweppes/wwa as town immediately, and i found wwa but not schweppes, and i'd prefer to have found schweppes

i expected dizzy/mac to be afraid of me (due to spec chat invitational), but i did not expect to be actively suspected, because for one i know both outside of the game. and i've played many many games with them

them suspecting me is either the needling that ran tried on me, or they're completely wrong, in the latter case isn't so much dangerous because of their alignments. instead it's because 1) i'm a towny that gets mischopped frequently 2) i can be pushed with impunity because i am a mystery box

idk, nothing is going how i expected it to so far and i don't doubt i'll be a wagon for the rest of d1 which is really fun!

[leetic]

i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions

I get that a lot, but the point of pushing in the early game is to generate interactions that I can look back on to read later. My more analytical play comes later in the game after we have some flips. I'll ask you a question: What are your thoughts on the two biggest wagons right now, Dyslexicon and robyn?

so you're saying that you post completely random stuff just to get reactions? like you don't even internalize the responses?

I obviously do, as the responses help advance my reads. Wolves are going to react differently than town, after all. But harder analysis beyond "this user's reaction feels natural/contrived" is something I don't do too often at D1, or if I do, it's late in the phase

[robyn]

@MacDougall why do you suspect insomnia (ted)

[MacDougall]

I'm not curious as to why you're pushing people I'm curious as to why the tone in doing so is so needlessly hostile. My view is that players like Ran and Wind are doing the most typical and reasonable "general purpose" solving of the game and you entered it like a tornado targeting exactly them. Going as far as to say their solving specifically was bad. From my perspective this could have and maybe did have the effect of discouraging the players I feel are the most towny from doing the things most towny. Instead of taking issue with players like Bereft and Dizzy for instance who are doing entirely not towny things you came in complaining about the quality of play being displayed by those displaying quality play?

A lot of this feels like CWAC and bad faith itself. I'm allowed to criticize the Windward and Ranmilla's posts, especially when they come in criticizing me! What exact standard are you calling their play "quality" and mine not? Further, if it is truly as "quality" as you say they are, shouldn't they be able to defend themselves easily? A push from an idiot shouldn't stop an actually good player from contributing! Overall, this reads as "rules for thee, but not for me" and a lame attempt at shading-without-actually-shading.

I don't know what CWAC means. You are permitted to do whatever you wish in a mafia game but the consequences are that you be asked to reason them out. I may be wrong but it certainly felt from reading your ISO that you were the one casting a wide net of judgement across the game first. Happy to be corrected if they criticised you first because if they did that unprompted then it would go a long way to explaining why you seemingly have your nose out of joint.

I'm not defending them. I'm trying to sort my read on you. You're misunderstanding my intent as more nefarious than it is and it's colouring your responses to me needlessly. I'm just looking for straightforward answers. Yes they can defend themselves, and I do believe they have done so. This is neither here nor there to my point. And you aren't an idiot, nor has your push stopped them playing the way they already were. It doesn't mean that your intent in doing it cannot be read into.

I am trying to determine whether your hostility stems from an agenda to disrupt good town play or whether it is just some part of your personality profile or approach to mafia. I've not had this experience with you before but I also dont strongly memorise everyone's meta. But my inclination is to assume it's not actually part of your common approach to mafia because my memory of you is that you're usually quite warm.

If my goal is the above, how should I have gone about it other than the way in which I have?

[MacDougall]

mmmm this game suddenly feels unsafe

i expected to find schweppes/wwa as town immediately, and i found wwa but not schweppes, and i'd prefer to have found schweppes

i expected dizzy/mac to be afraid of me (due to spec chat invitational), but i did not expect to be actively suspected, because for one i know both outside of the game. and i've played many many games with them

them suspecting me is either the needling that ran tried on me, or they're completely wrong, in the latter case isn't so much dangerous because of their alignments. instead it's because 1) i'm a towny that gets mischopped frequently 2) i can be pushed with impunity because i am a mystery box

idk, nothing is going how i expected it to so far and i don't doubt i'll be a wagon for the rest of d1 which is really fun!

Why would I be afraid of you due to spec chat invitational when I subbed into that game on day 4 and killed you as mafia nearly immediately?

[robyn]

mmmm this game suddenly feels unsafe

i expected to find schweppes/wwa as town immediately, and i found wwa but not schweppes, and i'd prefer to have found schweppes

i expected dizzy/mac to be afraid of me (due to spec chat invitational), but i did not expect to be actively suspected, because for one i know both outside of the game. and i've played many many games with them

them suspecting me is either the needling that ran tried on me, or they're completely wrong, in the latter case isn't so much dangerous because of their alignments. instead it's because 1) i'm a towny that gets mischopped frequently 2) i can be pushed with impunity because i am a mystery box

idk, nothing is going how i expected it to so far and i don't doubt i'll be a wagon for the rest of d1 which is really fun!

Why would I be afraid of you due to spec chat invitational when I subbed into that game on day 4 and killed you as mafia nearly immediately?

because your entire reasoning for suspecting me was independent of my alignment, and almost everyone refuted most of what you said in regards to me and xan

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall why do you suspect insomnia (ted)

Summarily I don't think his solving is of a high enough standard. The lines he's taking and questions he's asking are below his usual stances and kind of level 1.

There's also a weird dynamic with Syndicate Insom versus MU Insom. To me they are almost like two different people in the way they play. They even have two different mental models in my head with different voices.

[MacDougall]

mmmm this game suddenly feels unsafe

i expected to find schweppes/wwa as town immediately, and i found wwa but not schweppes, and i'd prefer to have found schweppes

i expected dizzy/mac to be afraid of me (due to spec chat invitational), but i did not expect to be actively suspected, because for one i know both outside of the game. and i've played many many games with them

them suspecting me is either the needling that ran tried on me, or they're completely wrong, in the latter case isn't so much dangerous because of their alignments. instead it's because 1) i'm a towny that gets mischopped frequently 2) i can be pushed with impunity because i am a mystery box

idk, nothing is going how i expected it to so far and i don't doubt i'll be a wagon for the rest of d1 which is really fun!

Why would I be afraid of you due to spec chat invitational when I subbed into that game on day 4 and killed you as mafia nearly immediately?

because your entire reasoning for suspecting me was independent of my alignment, and almost everyone refuted most of what you said in regards to me and xan

So I should be afraid of you ... because I caught you for bad reasons?

[leetic]

Happy to be corrected if they criticised you first because if they did that unprompted then it would go a long way to explaining why you seemingly have your nose out of joint.

Windward criticized my GTH reads before my push on them. Not gonna really respond to the rest because it's a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf; you could have made your point in two sentences, not four paragraphs.

[robyn]

@MacDougall why do you suspect insomnia (ted)

Summarily I don't think his solving is of a high enough standard. The lines he's taking and questions he's asking are below his usual stances and kind of level 1.

There's also a weird dynamic with Syndicate Insom versus MU Insom. To me they are almost like two different people in the way they play. They even have two different mental models in my head with different voices.

i’ve mashed with him and he’s capable of complex thought as both alignments (as w/w), besides that i think he’s taken an interesting position of defending me here, correctly too

and i’m taking everything right now in contrast to that one semi anonymous game where i was derpy nemo and you hard pocketed me, otherwise i would assume you were simply a wolf here

[MacDougall]

Happy to be corrected if they criticised you first because if they did that unprompted then it would go a long way to explaining why you seemingly have your nose out of joint.

Windward criticized my GTH reads before my push on them. Not gonna really respond to the rest because it's a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf; you could have made your point in two sentences, not four paragraphs.

I don't think so. I was as succinct as I could have been and am being naught but direct and entirely sincere and you are leaving quite a lot of meat on the bone for someone whose stated goal is to be aggressive to generate interactions.

[MacDougall]

leetic just said that my cpl paragraph post is "a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf". I invite people to read it and tell me if they agree.

[leetic]

It doesn't mean that your intent in doing it cannot be read into.

Also, I've stated my intentions here multiple times. Yes, a wolf can lie, but I don't know why a wolf would be so open here.

[tedxtr]

v
mac
tsp

leetic
wwa

[Dyslexicon]

leetic just said that my cpl paragraph post is "a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf". I invite people to read it and tell me if they agree.

Have you ever played with Leetic?