Ted Lasso Mafia - game over!

[Cape90]

Hello everyone!

How's it going, Cape? Is this our first game? I cannot recall for sure. I have spectated or hosted you, certainly.

This is our first game playing with one another. Have been in a few games u hosted

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Holy cow! Playing with JJJ not in a champs game is pretty sweet

Also, I can confirm votes are changeable, as I already clicked on the ‘view without voting’ which always locks me out if votes aren’t changeable

Good to know, thanks. I'm still afraid to click the radio buttons, but eventually it'll happen.

Are we going to be best friends in this game, Scotty? Or will we have problems?

[Scotty]

Some setup notes to be aware of moving forward:

The numbers ratio established in the OP is 12 vs. 4. This is a difficult but not unmanageable arrangement for town, particularly without the benefit of public role reveals.

If the game proceeds at a normal pace (one day elimination and one night kill per cycle), town only gets three mistakes before they reach an endgame phase. Town also boasts one kill (through the Dani Rojas role), but that kill alone would not change this number. It's still three mistakes maximum, and the mafia have two manners of kill protection available to them anyway.

The only way that number changes is with multiple night kill protections and/or a protection plus a kill (I think that works out).

With that in mind, we should just operate under the assumption at present that we are only allowed to make three mistakes. That is not very many. So we are going to have to play hard as a town team to overcome that. It can be done, but it will require concerted desire from everyone to make it so. So let's do that. The best weapon town possesses in a game like this is its ability to talk during the day phase, and so talk we must. Inactivity is more damaging in this setup than it would be in other setups. Mafia already boast a considerable voting block, and we must avoid helping them by unnecessarily splitting our votes or by leaving our votes off the board. These things routinely lose games, and they are unforced errors. We can avoid them if we are conscious of it and communicate effectively.

"Stop telling me how to play, Jay."

I appreciate everyone's right to do their thing, and I hope that's exactly what you do. Play however you like! I just want to emphasize that we begin this game in a difficult position, and that will not change for the better unless we cooperate.

Just to reiterate the most important points here:

-inactivity really is the death of town in a no-claiming/no info-dumping game. The more people talk, the better
-those with info roles have a tricky job with info they do have, and that can come out in creative forms. Looks like we have 1 cop that only operates on odd nights, and the potential for some masons.
The most important thing to do with info is to build cases around a player that looks confident and organic. Build cases on *why* that player is scummy or towny, using your knowledge that they are a certain alignment to *show* and not *tell*

[Scotty]

Holy cow! Playing with JJJ not in a champs game is pretty sweet

Also, I can confirm votes are changeable, as I already clicked on the ‘view without voting’ which always locks me out if votes aren’t changeable

Good to know, thanks. I'm still afraid to click the radio buttons, but eventually it'll happen.

Are we going to be best friends in this game, Scotty? Or will we have problems?

I dunno, JJJ. I’m just a dichromatic ball with factory-grade stitching.

Depends on how hard you kick me

[Scotty]

Well that sounds unintentionally sexual for some reason

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I dunno, JJJ. I’m just a dichromatic ball with factory-grade stitching.

Depends on how hard you kick me

[Scotty]

Jay’s pretty easy to read btw, but only by ~ lylo. If he’s been barking up the wrong tree all game and is still alive with little to no mafia pelts by that point, he’s probably bad.

But we probably already lost at that point anyway lol

[Scotty]

I dunno, JJJ. I’m just a dichromatic ball with factory-grade stitching.

Depends on how hard you kick me

Yep, live look in.

Let that be a lesson

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm okay with Scotty. Let him join the soft green beans with DarlingMonroe.

[Scotty]

Sooooo if I’m reading it right, Rupert’s money is responsible for the killing? So can they choose not to kill?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sooooo if I’m reading it right, Rupert’s money is responsible for the killing? So can they choose not to kill?

Probably. My interpretation is that they have to purchase kills (implying they can decline to do so), and that while Rupert is alive he is the only one that can kill. Then once he goes, any of the others can kill.

Important for any investigative roles out there to think about (i.e., tracker/watcher).

[Scotty]

'Been a prosperous Tuesday, ye.

Surprised to see you in a game.

Bless. And I am surprised too. JaggedJimmyJay is a memory of the Mafia world, an old pile of bones with a plaque situated in front of them recounting great deeds lost to history, interesting only to the most bored passers-by at The Syndicate Museum of Mafia.

You kicked towns ass in Epis Don't Starve game, so I would think there's probably some life left in those bones yet.

@DarlingMonroe back in the day, if we had info, we took it and used it as a starting point to build a case, not unlike a murder mystery. Building the case isn't hard once you know a person is bad, it's easy to find the bread crumbs. What's hard is getting other people to listen to you.

Linki @Jay, see you're looking pretty alive to me.

I see you already made the points I made

[Long Con]

Hey, y'all. Let's lasso some varmints!

[Scotty]

Sooooo if I’m reading it right, Rupert’s money is responsible for the killing? So can they choose not to kill?

Probably. My interpretation is that they have to purchase kills (implying they can decline to do so), and that while Rupert is alive he is the only one that can kill. Then once he goes, any of the others can kill.

Important for any investigative roles out there to think about (i.e., tracker/watcher).

ooooh in that case, that role is really important.

I have ideas for how that player would play, and I’ll come back to that later on in the day after people have, you know, posted

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's possible my interpretation of the Rupert role is incorrect. That's my best guess though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey, y'all. Let's lasso some varmints!

YEEHAW

Hi Long Con. Yes, let's.

[Scotty]

so far, cape’s entrance is the most blendy.
‘Hi!’
Hello

[Scotty]

Hey, y'all. Let's lasso some varmints!

Long Con:

[JaggedJimmyJay]

so far, cape’s entrance is the most blendy.
‘Hi!’
Hello

Agreed. I actually went back and looked at a town game of his (JJJ's Bad First Dates) for an immediate comparison, and at least there it was a slow start for Cape. So I will withhold too much judgment. But I recognize your viewpoint.

[Scotty]

so far, cape’s entrance is the most blendy.
‘Hi!’
Hello

Agreed. I actually went back and looked at a town game of his (JJJ's Bad First Dates) for an immediate comparison, and at least there it was a slow start for Cape. So I will withhold too much judgment. But I recognize your viewpoint.

Ok real talk/ how do you approach D1’s? Because obviously there’s meta, but I would expect people to try and subvert it.

Like, I always struggle with the vibe approach

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ok real talk/ how do you approach D1’s? Because obviously there’s meta, but I would expect people to try and subvert it.

Like, I always struggle with the vibe approach

Meta is fine, and I think it's okay to operate on that basis -- at least inasmuch as you feel like you have a nuanced grasp of what a player is supposed to look like. Sometimes meta reads are too generic to be useful (e.g., "so and so is usually nice, but now they're grumpy") or too specific (e.g., "five games ago when so and so was town, they placed the second vote of the day, but this time they didn't vote until fifth). Find the sweet spot in between, and it's at least worth exploring. Hell, sometimes even the generic reads are worth posting even if they should be taken with a grain of salt.

Day 1 is, for me, about setting the table for the future by establishing communicative links between players. You might recall the lengthy analyses I have posted in yesteryear about "interactions with mafia" or "blind interactions" -- these analyses rely upon a thick game thread with interactions in it, and players have to proactively create those interactions. So I try to do that. From the standpoint of making reads and determining who to vote out, my process is largely process of elimination. I personally find it easier to identify town players early in a game, and that is where I focus. Sometimes when town shines brightly enough, that constricts the pool of choices sufficiently to vote out either a legitimate suspect or a total null read with a heightened probability of a mafia flip.

No process is perfect, but that general approach has worked well enough for me. If a game is active enough, sometimes I will even engage in deep analysis on Day 1 -- but that requires consistent high activity across the roster. If at some point you feel like you're stuck in the Day 1 mud, just say so. Perhaps that will on its own power be the foundation of an interesting dialogue.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As for people subverting meta, or as for the dangers of town reading someone incorrectly:

I honestly don't care. At least I don't care that much. We're all going to be wrong sometimes, but the game is hopeless if we allow that to stop us from saying what's on our minds and acting on our instincts. Especially on Day 1, that's all whatever. We have an entire game ahead to correct any errors made today.

[Cape90]

so far, cape’s entrance is the most blendy.
‘Hi!’
Hello

Yeah I am kinda here with muted energy admittedly

[JaggedJimmyJay]

so far, cape’s entrance is the most blendy.
‘Hi!’
Hello

Yeah I am kinda here with muted energy admittedly

Why do you think that is?

[Cape90]

so far, cape’s entrance is the most blendy.
‘Hi!’
Hello

Yeah I am kinda here with muted energy admittedly

Why do you think that is?

Think I need to break from mafia for a bit after this, so it's a me thing

I think you are town, Scotty has decent energy, DM had an alright start, kinda think robyn's start with talking about how they want to play diff this game is kinda towny just because every time I have done that sort of thing I have been town

That's about that i have, as boring as it is

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's about that i have, as boring as it is

That's not boring at all. It's four entire reads. Thank you for your service.

What makes you lean that way on DarlingMonroe and I?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Bereft could you confirm that you're able to move your vote if you want to?

[Cape90]

That's about that i have, as boring as it is

That's not boring at all. It's four entire reads. Thank you for your service.

What makes you lean that way on DarlingMonroe and I?

The productivity from your end and

Thank you, Jx3!

& for the bolded, just to the type/style of comments or gameplay, etc..

Happy to be of service. By all means, if you think that will help you, then do your thing. Would you say there was anything you picked up in your experience with the Severance game that you'll apply to this game?

Don't worry, this isn't a job interview. Necessarily.

Trust my instinct/gut more. I played a little too passively; perhaps it would have been more useful to town if I had contributed more, perhaps not.

Any advice from a master like you, JJJ?

This response DM made to you

[Bereft]

@Bereft could you confirm that you're able to move your vote if you want to?

I have in fact successfully moved my vote. I don't know when this occurred in time in relation to this post for reference.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's fine, thanks. I'm just glad to know that votes aren't locked.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I town read Bereft for placing that vote. Grain of salt or whatever, but I like the vibe.

[Scotty]

Ok real talk/ how do you approach D1’s? Because obviously there’s meta, but I would expect people to try and subvert it.

Like, I always struggle with the vibe approach

Meta is fine, and I think it's okay to operate on that basis -- at least inasmuch as you feel like you have a nuanced grasp of what a player is supposed to look like. Sometimes meta reads are too generic to be useful (e.g., "so and so is usually nice, but now they're grumpy") or too specific (e.g., "five games ago when so and so was town, they placed the second vote of the day, but this time they didn't vote until fifth). Find the sweet spot in between, and it's at least worth exploring. Hell, sometimes even the generic reads are worth posting even if they should be taken with a grain of salt.

Day 1 is, for me, about setting the table for the future by establishing communicative links between players. You might recall the lengthy analyses I have posted in yesteryear about "interactions with mafia" or "blind interactions" -- these analyses rely upon a thick game thread with interactions in it, and players have to proactively create those interactions. So I try to do that. From the standpoint of making reads and determining who to vote out, my process is largely process of elimination. I personally find it easier to identify town players early in a game, and that is where I focus. Sometimes when town shines brightly enough, that constricts the pool of choices sufficiently to vote out either a legitimate suspect or a total null read with a heightened probability of a mafia flip.

No process is perfect, but that general approach has worked well enough for me. If a game is active enough, sometimes I will even engage in deep analysis on Day 1 -- but that requires consistent high activity across the roster. If at some point you feel like you're stuck in the Day 1 mud, just say so. Perhaps that will on its own power be the foundation of an interesting dialogue.

Yeah, I usually parse on D1 in some sweet spot between meta and vibe. Still hate it and often wrong. But I agree that talking and talking and talking is good

Though I don’t know how you can have a deep analysis on D1

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Though I don’t know how you can have a deep analysis on D1

If it proves feasible in this game (as in, if enough players engage consistently), I will show you the magic.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Of the people who've posted so far, I see the least town in Thunal. On that front, I'd call the current wagon reasonable. I could make an argument for Long Con if I am true to the word "least", but his one post was fine.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Scotty

Bereft
DarlingMonroe
Cape90

robyn
S~V~S
Long Con
Thunal33

[others haven't posted]

"Yellow" doesn't really imply "suspicion" here. I just don't have an impression yet, and by POE that means what it means. Cape90 is already an interesting case, in that he has [by his own admission] opened with muted energy, but when prompted he dropped four reads. That isn't necessarily "town behavior", but it is "pro town" to do that. The distance between strategy and production is not very meaningful to me yet.

[Long Con]

Of the people who've posted so far, I see the least town in Thunal. On that front, I'd call the current wagon reasonable. I could make an argument for Long Con if I am true to the word "least", but his one post was fine.

Was it fine though? I used mild humour. Isn't that a wolf red flag?

I was thinking about the game so far, and I was like, "Okay, if it comes down to me or JJJ for some reason, I'm going down just based on his post count alone." I wanted to ask you for examples of wolf games with very high post counts, because you're already looking so towny with your level of involvement.

The conclusion of this line of thought was to say that I think I do better, involvement-wise, if you ask me questions. I'm naturally more of a listener than a talker. This goes for anyone, but Sir JJJ is Mr Engagement, so I figured it's right up his alley.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Of the people who've posted so far, I see the least town in Thunal. On that front, I'd call the current wagon reasonable. I could make an argument for Long Con if I am true to the word "least", but his one post was fine.

Was it fine though? I used mild humour. Isn't that a wolf red flag?

I was thinking about the game so far, and I was like, "Okay, if it comes down to me or JJJ for some reason, I'm going down just based on his post count alone." I wanted to ask you for examples of wolf games with very high post counts, because you're already looking so towny with your level of involvement.

The conclusion of this line of thought was to say that I think I do better, involvement-wise, if you ask me questions. I'm naturally more of a listener than a talker. This goes for anyone, but Sir JJJ is Mr Engagement, so I figured it's right up his alley.

I can give you a few recent or semi-recent mafia-aligned games. I've been mafia constantly in my "recent" games over the last couple years (out of the small number of games I have played).

Me in Don't Starve
Me in Kid's Birthday Party
Me in Halvosen Ridge
Me in Stardew 2 (Student Doctor Network)

All of those are at least reasonably high in posts.

I'd be pleased to ask you some questions. I'll write a separate post.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The conclusion of this line of thought was to say that I think I do better, involvement-wise, if you ask me questions. I'm naturally more of a listener than a talker. This goes for anyone, but Sir JJJ is Mr Engagement, so I figured it's right up his alley.

Questions for Long Con:

Do you have any initial impressions of the folks you know best (e.g., S~V~S or Scotty)?

How do you feel about the two votes currently in the poll?

[Long Con]

The conclusion of this line of thought was to say that I think I do better, involvement-wise, if you ask me questions. I'm naturally more of a listener than a talker. This goes for anyone, but Sir JJJ is Mr Engagement, so I figured it's right up his alley.

Questions for Long Con:

Do you have any initial impressions of the folks you know best (e.g., S~V~S or Scotty)?

How do you feel about the two votes currently in the poll?

Damn, you ask me about THOSE two? Jesus. Ok, lemme go and see. And those votes!

[Long Con]

Of the people who've posted so far, I see the least town in Thunal. On that front, I'd call the current wagon reasonable. I could make an argument for Long Con if I am true to the word "least", but his one post was fine.

Was it fine though? I used mild humour. Isn't that a wolf red flag?

I was thinking about the game so far, and I was like, "Okay, if it comes down to me or JJJ for some reason, I'm going down just based on his post count alone." I wanted to ask you for examples of wolf games with very high post counts, because you're already looking so towny with your level of involvement.

The conclusion of this line of thought was to say that I think I do better, involvement-wise, if you ask me questions. I'm naturally more of a listener than a talker. This goes for anyone, but Sir JJJ is Mr Engagement, so I figured it's right up his alley.

I can give you a few recent or semi-recent mafia-aligned games. I've been mafia constantly in my "recent" games over the last couple years (out of the small number of games I have played).

Me in Don't Starve
Me in Kid's Birthday Party
Me in Halvosen Ridge
Me in Stardew 2 (Student Doctor Network)

All of those are at least reasonably high in posts.

I'd be pleased to ask you some questions. I'll write a separate post.

Thanks man! This is just for posterity. I want people to keep their eyes open about you, you know?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sure. I hope people share all of their takes on me, whatever they may be. We need something to talk about after all.

[Thunal33]

Sooooo if I’m reading it right, Rupert’s money is responsible for the killing? So can they choose not to kill?

Probably. My interpretation is that they have to purchase kills (implying they can decline to do so), and that while Rupert is alive he is the only one that can kill. Then once he goes, any of the others can kill.

Important for any investigative roles out there to think about (i.e., tracker/watcher).

I didn't think about him being the only person who can kill, but that makes sense. That makes it much more important for Rupert to avoid sus than the other mafia and he might act differently because of that pressure. Kind of reminds me of John Doe in se7en where that role was important so SVS had pressure to go deep with it.

[Thunal33]

@robyn @Bereft why are you voting me?

Also which one of you voted first?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I didn't think about him being the only person who can kill, but that makes sense. That makes it much more important for Rupert to avoid sus than the other mafia and he might act differently because of that pressure. Kind of reminds me of John Doe in se7en where that role was important so SVS had pressure to go deep with it.

Perhaps so. I'm not entirely sure the role is that important since they retain their kill without it. It's just the early killer (if that interpretation is accurate). I just noted that town doesn't seem to have any night actions that would interact directly with a killing mafia member other than an even night role blocker (no tracker or watcher). We have protections, but they don't mean anything with respect to who is killing. It might not matter than much, and it appears that it means close to nothing on Night 1. I could be overlooking something.

[Long Con]

I was wondering why Thunal had the votes, but then I went through his ISO...



Got'im!

[Long Con]

Sorry, I mean HER ISO!!

[Long Con]

... and, "Got'er"? Dammit, I KNEW I shoulda gone with Got'em. I don't even know if I should go with the apostrophe. Oh god, I'm in over my head. SVS. Scotty.

[Thunal33]

I like Scotty's entrance, and I think his comment about Cape's entrance is >rand town.

[Thunal33]

I was wondering why Thunal had the votes, but then I went through his ISO...



Got'im!

But I wasn't invested in it because I'm a good townie in BG3 too.

[Long Con]

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.