Ted Lasso Mafia - game over!

[robyn]

But I fully admit that I feel... completely incapable of like... Mafia

Like I'm lost. I have no reads. And I'm afraid.

don’t be, as far as wolves go me and kiri are the cream of the crop, quite hard to find better ones

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy is my top town read.

Thank you. Me too.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I've decided that

Town Core

SVS
long con

What do you think is the most significant thing that makes S~V~S town? I ask, because if I could find the courage to town read her myself, that'd really square away my POE.

It's a vibe read but I think her posts tonally are good

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@DrWilgy is my top town read.

Thank you. Me too.

Thank you. You too.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'll move when I find a wagon I'm comfy with

abbie uh

i know it’ll be difficult for u to read me here

When has being wrong ever stopped me

indeed

UwU

Don't think I can handle another bad game though if I'm totally honest

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's a vibe read but I think her posts tonally are good

Thanks. I might agree at least with respect to some of her posts. @Bereft and @robyn, do either of you have an impression of S~V~S?

Anyone can answer, but those two are town reads recently in the thread.

[DrWilgy]

Someone tell me the cases for the lead wagons, I'm stuck in work hell and going to see the kids tomorrow so activity/reread time will be light today if at all.

Scotty/Thunal.

Clearly there's a wolf in the Scotty, Bereft, Cape90, Jay realm, so which of these is it?

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy is my top town read.

Thank you. Me too.

Thank you. You too.

Thank you. You too.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

But I fully admit that I feel... completely incapable of like... Mafia

Like I'm lost. I have no reads. And I'm afraid.

don’t be, as far as wolves go me and kiri are the cream of the crop, quite hard to find better ones

I know but you were both in my poe like all of day 1 and I just fucking crumbled day 2

Self doubt sucks

[robyn]

jjj, where do u think bereft wants me to look

[JaggedJimmyJay]

UwU

Don't think I can handle another bad game though if I'm totally honest

There's good news: you have a team. If you're town, you still have a team. When you lack confidence, lean on them -- even if I'm not included in your view of that team. All groovy. Let your team keep you upright.

[DrWilgy]

I'll move when I find a wagon I'm comfy with

abbie uh

i know it’ll be difficult for u to read me here

When has being wrong ever stopped me

indeed

UwU

Don't think I can handle another bad game though if I'm totally honest

Aye, your goated, don't worry my friend.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

jjj, where do u think bereft wants me to look

I'm not sure. Perhaps Scotty given his vote. My interpretation was that he just wanted you to find more game-theoretically appropriate grounding in your play (instead of being silly with Thunal about your vote for her).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Clearly there's a wolf in the Scotty, Bereft, Cape90, Jay realm, so which of these is it?

Scotty > Cape90 >>>>> Bereft

[robyn]

jjj, where do u think bereft wants me to look

I'm not sure. Perhaps Scotty given his vote. My interpretation was that he just wanted you to find more game-theoretically appropriate grounding in your play (instead of being silly with Thunal about your vote for her).

i just woke up and have headache [read not hungover], game theory will have to wait

i’ll read svs after i procure dinner

[Bereft]

I do actually. When prompted to iso S~V~S to find the game I was referencing for comparison, I saw some posts I liked.

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Probably. We tend to circle, and in the last game we played, I was bad and railroaded him hideously. I would be surprised if he wasn't somewhat paranoid of me. I haven't read why he susses me yet, I'm answering my @'s first.

Watching your game, I figured out what triggers me about him, he has an almost theatricality about him, that I view as acting to an extent, and to me acting = (in a Mafia game) fake = bad. So I was kinda interested to see what our dynamic was here.

Good, will elaborate on wrt the third quote, since it elaborates on this point.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

This is a correct reaction to my presence. For that matter, any interest at all in reading my slot tends to be is a good sign.

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

In my experience, mafia does not do this often, that is, give up trade secrets of how they play. If SVS if mafia, they can simply not say this and instead push LC on the expressed basis.

And in general, a recurring theme with SVS's posts is that I find them honest on a fundamental level. Whereas Scotty accused SVS of having comments and no reads, I think this is a good thing. Mafia is more inclined to bother forcing comments into reads, and whenever they get around to it to explaining their comments in more detail, SVS makes sense in why they havent turned observations into reada. I've played with town SVS at least once, and all of this has been congruent with my impression of them as generally not having alot of hard feelings on a lot of people.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

UwU

Don't think I can handle another bad game though if I'm totally honest

There's good news: you have a team. If you're town, you still have a team. When you lack confidence, lean on them -- even if I'm not included in your view of that team. All groovy. Let your team keep you upright.

Thing is if I can't find them how do I lean on them

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

I'll move when I find a wagon I'm comfy with

abbie uh

i know it’ll be difficult for u to read me here

When has being wrong ever stopped me

indeed

UwU

Don't think I can handle another bad game though if I'm totally honest

Aye, your goated, don't worry my friend.

Thank you Wilgy

[JaggedJimmyJay]

UwU

Don't think I can handle another bad game though if I'm totally honest

There's good news: you have a team. If you're town, you still have a team. When you lack confidence, lean on them -- even if I'm not included in your view of that team. All groovy. Let your team keep you upright.

Thing is if I can't find them how do I lean on them

If you trust Long Con and S~V~S as you suggested before, that’s a plenty good start. Lean on them. They’re both highly capable.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thanks @Bereft for your S~V~S take. That helps a lot.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[solid town reads]
Long Con
Bereft

[mostly town reads]
robyn
LoRab

[town leans]
DarlingMonroe
Cape90
Princess Abigail

[town in theory, but placed in purgatory until further notice]
Scotty

Others all null or unknown

If I add S~V~S to any green tier and just drop Scotty out, that leaves me one town short of a full solve proposal. DarlingMonroe is probably an irresponsible inclusion, but I’ll leave it be for now anyway.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Cape is also pretty questionable. Will think. New arrivals will be essential.

[Thunal33]

I do actually. When prompted to iso S~V~S to find the game I was referencing for comparison, I saw some posts I liked.

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Probably. We tend to circle, and in the last game we played, I was bad and railroaded him hideously. I would be surprised if he wasn't somewhat paranoid of me. I haven't read why he susses me yet, I'm answering my @'s first.

Watching your game, I figured out what triggers me about him, he has an almost theatricality about him, that I view as acting to an extent, and to me acting = (in a Mafia game) fake = bad. So I was kinda interested to see what our dynamic was here.

Good, will elaborate on wrt the third quote, since it elaborates on this point.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

This is a correct reaction to my presence. For that matter, any interest at all in reading my slot tends to be is a good sign.

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

In my experience, mafia does not do this often, that is, give up trade secrets of how they play. If SVS if mafia, they can simply not say this and instead push LC on the expressed basis.

And in general, a recurring theme with SVS's posts is that I find them honest on a fundamental level. Whereas Scotty accused SVS of having comments and no reads, I think this is a good thing. Mafia is more inclined to bother forcing comments into reads, and whenever they get around to it to explaining their comments in more detail, SVS makes sense in why they havent turned observations into reada. I've played with town SVS at least once, and all of this has been congruent with my impression of them as generally not having alot of hard feelings on a lot of people.

Tbh, I think your point on SVS saying LC is an easy elim when she's bad makes sense. I don't necessarily agree on mafia being more inclined to force comments because sometimes it's hard to take hard stances as mafia.

I have a bit less confidence on my read on her since her return and she's someone I'm having a hard time sorting. Even on her return, she felt a bit more blendy and not ruffling feathers than I remember town SVS being. However I know my town style varies a lot based on what reads I have and it could be that SVS just doesn't have a reason to ruffle feathers yet.

[robyn]

do u have a read on me thunal or am i still null?

[Thunal33]

Lorab isn’t doing anything so far to make me townread her, and frankly is rather blendy in her entrance posts.

Though I don’t remember how LoRab operates. It’s been a while

blendy this blendy that

Tbf, I've seen town Scotty make that kind of read.

[Thunal33]

do u have a read on me thunal or am i still null?

You're a townlean at this point. Pretty much for tone stuff/feeling comfortable and I liked how you objected to my push.

[Thunal33]

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

[Thunal33]

I personally don't think Scotty has been scummy and I have a few town pings from him, but enough people I feel good about are sussing him (particularly JJJ/Long Con) that I want to reeval that read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

It would be dishonest of me to call them my reasons, because I am kind of sheeping this one right now. But I think some others raised valid gripes or were otherwise convincing:

- Scotty calling Long Con's "unhinged" post towny was goofy.
- As S~V~S climbs the town ladder, I give her instinct more credence (that Scotty was off in resisting LC's suspicion of her)
- His read on LoRab didn't actually make sense (this thing) -- acknowledging a "difference in approach" with respect to her aversion to town reads and then basically ignoring that difference when suspecting her.
- Bereft has never openly town read Scotty, and I think he has a strong grip on the game right now.
- I decided my own town read was biased by my desire for players to be involved, and he was the first to take up that banner.

I might add one new gripe: his suspicion of you seemed kind of opportunistic. He even agreed with your reads

[Thunal33]

[VOTE: Thunal] aubergine
Cu cu cachoo

Could you indicate which of Thunal's read(s) you found half-baked?

Their vote for SVS came out of nowhere for me:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

@S~V~S do you feel it is on-brand or not (or neither) for @Long Con to express early suspicion of you?

Onnnnnnnnnn-braaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd...... on-brand. On-brand. Towny. Wolfy. On-brand. Sassy. Classy. On-brand. Interesting. On-brand. Bon-rand?

@JaggedJimmyJay this is what I meant by "theatricality". I used to auto read this as bad~ weirdly enough, even in games where I was bad, and i had TMI re LC being town, I STILL read him as bad, which is why he's always an easy yeet for me when I'm bad. I kinda half believe it when I'm making the case.

I am on record as not believing in contributing to such lists, or rankings. I'm not a fan and I don't generally post them. Those here who have played with me a lot can attest.

Similarly, I hate when people trust me. Stop naming me, people! And, really....I'm kind of freaked out that I'm on this site and not yet suspected. What's up with that? I don't think that has ever happened. At all on here, and rarely in prior communities.

That used to freak me out, too. Naming civs, like WTF. Extreme target painting. I still don't love rainbow lists, and prefer baddie hunting to townie hunting.

I'm used to it now.

S~V~S is bad. She's humouring in there like nobody's business. Setting the scene, agreeable. If I were cruder and didn't know S~V~S, she's also sucking up to Jay, possibly pocketing.

Intriguing take- I feel like I have the unique benefit of having just wolfed with her and I haven’t seen anything specific about her that is throwing off my paranoia alarm. And I’m usually paranoid of her as of the last 3 games before I wolf’ed with her.

Now do me do me

OK, you're freaking me out here. I don't think you've EVER said anything like this to/about me. Not the last 3 games. EVERY. GAME. Every one. You think I'm bad.

What did you take away from wolfing with me that makes you say this?

Also gotta go get ready for work. Love my new job, hate the longer commute.

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

Where are SVS's own reads? A lot of her posts feel like commentary and not actually taking stances. LC's post used to be read as auto bad and Scotty's freaking her out, but she didn't make actual reads off those when I feel like it would be natural for her to do.

@S~V~S
[VOTE: SVS] aubergine

Their loRab push was also not strong.

Even though through a lens, I actually independently find I agree with their reads of both SVS and LoRab: where are SVS’ reads, and why is LoRab so freaked out about being townread?

This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

I read that the opposite way. It's not so much that he "waffled" on you or lost confidence about you, but rather he disproved his own read of you.

He called your reads of S~V~S and LoRab "half baked" based on frivolities (they "came out of nowhere" or were "not strong", whatever those really mean), and then he granted why they weren't half-baked... all while keeping his vote on you. In this instance, I don't care much about what "mafia Scotty" would or would not be likely to do from the standpoint of "how to handle Thunal", but rather I have to ask "was this ever a real read at all"?

[Thunal33]

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

It would be dishonest of me to call them my reasons, because I am kind of sheeping this one right now. But I think some others raised valid gripes or were otherwise convincing:

- Scotty calling Long Con's "unhinged" post towny was goofy.
- As S~V~S climbs the town ladder, I give her instinct more credence (that Scotty was off in resisting LC's suspicion of her)
- His read on LoRab didn't actually make sense (this thing) -- acknowledging a "difference in approach" with respect to her aversion to town reads and then basically ignoring that difference when suspecting her.
- Bereft has never openly town read Scotty, and I think he has a strong grip on the game right now.
- I decided my own town read was biased by my desire for players to be involved, and he was the first to take up that banner.

I might add one new gripe: his suspicion of you seemed kind of opportunistic. He even agreed with your reads

The LoRab thing is an interesting point. People like you, SVS, and LoRab herself were quick to tell me that it's normal to not want to be trusted for old school players, but Scotty knew this (I think) and still found it suspicious.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay what are your top reasons for sussing Scotty?

It would be dishonest of me to call them my reasons, because I am kind of sheeping this one right now. But I think some others raised valid gripes or were otherwise convincing:

- Scotty calling Long Con's "unhinged" post towny was goofy.
- As S~V~S climbs the town ladder, I give her instinct more credence (that Scotty was off in resisting LC's suspicion of her)
- His read on LoRab didn't actually make sense (this thing) -- acknowledging a "difference in approach" with respect to her aversion to town reads and then basically ignoring that difference when suspecting her.
- Bereft has never openly town read Scotty, and I think he has a strong grip on the game right now.
- I decided my own town read was biased by my desire for players to be involved, and he was the first to take up that banner.

I might add one new gripe: his suspicion of you seemed kind of opportunistic. He even agreed with your reads

Also @DrWilgy asked for a case, so there's one. It doesn't belong to me though apart from my participation in the wagon.

[Thunal33]

This is something I actually think is towny for Scotty. Why would wolf Scotty weaken his push by saying he agreed with my reads? I feel like wolf Scotty would just go after me rather than giving credit to my reads especially if one was right. Even if they were both wrong I think he'd either push me harder or pocket me by finding common ground as mafia.

I read that the opposite way. It's not so much that he "waffled" on you or lost confidence about you, but rather he disproved his own read of you.

He called your reads of S~V~S and LoRab "half baked" based on frivolities (they "came out of nowhere" or were "not strong", whatever those really mean), and then he granted why they weren't half-baked... all while keeping his vote on you. In this instance, I don't care much about what "mafia Scotty" would or would not be likely to do from the standpoint of "how to handle Thunal", but rather I have to ask "was this ever a real read at all"?

It could be a real read, but your post made me think of something. When I find someone who has similar thoughts to me that I didn't say anything about yet, I'd tend towards townreading them rather than having gripes for how they came up with those reads. Normally I feel good about having the same opinions as someone else even if I thought the way they got there was sudden or weak.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It could be a real read, but your post made me think of something. When I find someone who has similar thoughts to me that I didn't say anything about yet, I'd tend towards townreading them rather than having gripes for how they came up with those reads. Normally I feel good about having the same opinions as someone else even if I thought the way they got there was sudden or weak.

That's probably true of my approach to, or at least I think so.

It'll be good when Scotty returns and is able to address the hater brigade. I'm not terribly confident, but I think the case is a decent one.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

to.

to.

to.

TOO.

[robyn]

thunal can u give me an exposition/400~ word overview of your play, good and bad, in the semi anon space opera game

[Thunal33]

I'm having trouble sorting Cape. He turned around really fast and in response to pressure twice which made me think he was trying to get the pressure off him and find a push because he was getting voted. But I liked some of his earlier thoughts and they were similar to mine.

I have a tinfoil Scotty/Cape are w/w. Cape has way more reasons to sus Scotty and finds a lot of his posts wrong, but his other susses like SVS, Abi, and me are much thinner. I also don't quite get why he opened Scotty's early ISO in the first place instead of someone else's since his last Scotty read was a townread.

[Thunal33]

If my Scotty/Cape w/w tinfoil is right I'm going to be really happy.

[robyn]

One last *?*, Bereft seems to be only addressing/alluding to Robyn and Jay, with the exception of his towny list, which was an answer to Jay, if I'm not mistaken.

I would not be able to read him if I tried, is this a normal thing for him? I don't find it to be AI, it just stuck out to me skimming his ISO.

can u rephrase this

oh you mean alluding as he's only talking about us two [it's very late], and the answer is i bet he was bored and mostly wanted to socialize, i also think we're the two people he wouldn't want to freely talk to as wolf. however this is a read i'm putting 0 value in, as in it exists and it's also entirely meaningless in regards to his alignment

Hi Robyn

I don’t know your history with Bereft, but you two seem to know each other.

Would you say you have good reads on each other?

Based on vibes, I feel like you and he are linked in some way. Like a nerd and his computer, or a squirrel and his nut

yeah we're linked, but that's for out of game reasons, we're not linked in game

and yes, very good reads on one another, even if he hasn't read me right before really

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Thunal33, I had the same thought that Cape's quick flurry of anti-Scotty propaganda might be more about getting out of trouble than actually suspecting Scotty. However, he made some points I thought were legitimately compelling too.

[Thunal33]

thunal can u give me an exposition/400~ word overview of your play, good and bad, in the semi anon space opera game

It was great because i got n1ed pretending to be ladd and had no responsibility for losing to matt.

[robyn]

If my Scotty/Cape w/w tinfoil is right I'm going to be really happy.

does wolf!scotty immediately call wolf!cape's entry blendy? especially when cape just wolfed confidently in severance, therefore scotty knows that cape is a solid wolf and can play and maneuver on his own. seems too good to be true even though i had a similar though and quickly dismissed it

[Thunal33]

@Thunal33, I had the same thought that Cape's quick flurry of anti-Scotty propaganda might be more about getting out of trouble than actually suspecting Scotty. However, he made some points I thought were legitimately compelling too.

I can see some of it - when I went back and reread Scotty his ISO seemed more one note than I remember and some of his reasons for suspecting people weren't very strong or actually scum AI.

[robyn]

I’ve turned around on Cape- even tho he doesn’t have a lot of posts, what posts he has made are actual reads. Obviously I would like him to expand on them, but he’s making definitive reads

Thunal on the surface looks fine with their reads, if not making reads that come off as half baked. And no one wants a half baked pie, except maybe the stray cat that hangs out on my patio after dark. He’ll eat anything.
Scumlean

this post is actually disgusting, but i have to read cape's posts in the interim, either way blahhhh, early shade on cape who is the easiest mischop on this side of the mississippi is just not a good look for a player of scotty's stature and understanding

[Scotty]

Hooooly hell, I go see a show and come back and I’m in the lead. Cool beans

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can see some of it - when I went back and reread Scotty his ISO seemed more one note than I remember and some of his reasons for suspecting people weren't very strong or actually scum AI.

Would
you
say
they
were

half-baked

[robyn]

Hooooly hell, I go see a show and come back and I’m in the lead. Cool beans

speak of the devil and he shall appear

[Thunal33]

If my Scotty/Cape w/w tinfoil is right I'm going to be really happy.

does wolf!scotty immediately call wolf!cape's entry blendy? especially when cape just wolfed confidently in severance, therefore scotty knows that cape is a solid wolf and can play and maneuver on his own. seems too good to be true even though i had a similar though and quickly dismissed it

Yeah, it's actually pretty common to immediately FoS a partner. An early push was what tipped me off to the YOLOSWAG2/JC2 pairing in the MU game.

[Scotty]

When was the last time you rolled mafia? Mind if I checked it out? I thought there was a game I was speccing where I pegged you as mafia by like day 3 but I don’t remember if that was confbias or you actually were mafia

Refer to the links in this post -- plenty of examples to work with. It's been both annoying and vindicating to be mafia so many times lately. I had one of my worst games ever in Philosophy 2 a couple years ago, but since then I have gone 5-0 as mafia (despite never being pleased to see the role card at first). Feels nice.

Wait- THATS RIGHT! I was just in a game with you in Don’t Starve, and would have absolutely gunned for you D2 if I didn’t get D1’d. I totally forgot about that game.

Ok ok I *can* read you.

You don't seem too confident here tho

That declaration is me feeling confident. Not sure what you mean