Game of Champions- Merged Thread [GAME OVER- SERIAL KILLER WINS]

[sig]

falcon never directly interacted with Lemonfairy or Ricochet D3. If he interacted with his remaining partner, they'd be the exception. Thing is, he interacted with every reamining member of the other thread:

- He responded to no less than ten posts from MR, which comprises an entire one fourth of his ISO.
- He responded to two of nutella's posts, one being a simple "disagree" but another asking for reads
- He responded to one of DrWilgy's posts that was accusing him
- He responded with two words to a post of WWA's that was also just two words.

If MR is falcon's partner, falcon's single-minded focus on them while completely ignoring his other two partners (including the one he was in the same thread with!) would be staggering. WWA's post would probably fit in the best with falcon's general avoidance of his partners. falcon's interactions with nutella aren't too inspiring on their own, but falcon did ask them for reads, something he only otherwise did D3 to flipped town DM (as far as I can tell). falcon's response to Wilgy is much stronger, but it is so over-the-top that I cannot entirely dismiss the possibility of it being theatre.

Falcon is amazing at not linking himself to teammates so I think that’s a good mark for MR

[WindwardAway]

What would I hate more:

voting in the East and losing because we followed an unsubstantiated belief about mech despite my misgivings

or

voting in the West and losing because obviously it was evenly split wolf teams and I just haaad to go renegade

Yep, same dilemma here
I don't know what the better answer is, but on the bright side, if you vote me out today I won't have to think about it more

[sig]

whew suddenly posting is happening again

Are we sure there aren't more wolves from the West?

Like from a design standpoint I see the symmetry but it does feel a bit of an advantage to town to have things so evenly split for situations exactly like this. It creates an artifical PoE.

oh believe me i've been keeping this in the back of my mind as well. like i do think it is just slightly silly to be completely tunnel visioned about this because if there is a wolf from west they are just sitting back and laughing at us this whole time

So, i think it’s possible we’ve got one more wolf in West, but also then you’ve got to look at players and unless we Tin foil Epi the only other potentials are TSP/Delta.

Delta annoyed me for voting for me when I was messed up, but besides that they seem townish.

TSP is a blank which isn’t good at this point in the game

[WindwardAway]

I’d love to just vote Wilgy and call it a day but as I’m reading up hes definitely within his town meta

I wish I had meta on any of the other people in East Facility tbh. I've seen nut and Wilgy as town but I don't believe I've ever played with MR before, and I've never seen any of them wolf. So instead I'm just running in circles trying to figure out who's solving with town intent and who's solving with an agenda. Problem is, both remaining wolves are likely legitimately scoping each other out because they also need to kill each other.

[Master Radishes]

What I'm struggling with is the fact that in a vacuum I'd much rather vote Delta or Sig or even TSP or Epi, but I'm instead supposed to focus on a PoE of 3 others whom I largely find nothing wrong with.

SO, if we expand the PoE, who and why?

Delta I kinda get.

Sig I still think is town in spite of certain thread entrances made today.

Epi based on Falc/DM treatment I had an eye raised for but nothing more as this does feel like town Epi.

I'll even toss Leetic in there as Leetic's vote on me following what looks like busywork came off as really off to me (I acknowlege that there's a large bit of omgussy bias in here, but after several unexplained suspicions of me, I think my omgussy bias is at least not worth throwing away immediately.)

I'd probably go Delta first, having not really looked back into any of them recently. He's kind of here but not really pushing much, promising to do things but then not really following through.

Sig I remember thinking had possible associations with falcon, but don't quiz me because that was ages ago that I thought that.

TSP doing TSP things could really go either way.

Leetic is working hard but I think they're the archetype to do that as a wolf trying to solo it? Like most would get demoralised, but a rare few step up their game. And they seem much less abrasive than I expect from my very limited meta knowledge.

Epi seems fine on the surface but the Falcon defence could definitely be a thing. I dunno.

[sig]

So that's 2 of the 4 Easterners saying to do it, which means the scum must be me and nutella.

Except I know that's impossible, so at least one of you is backing yourself into a corner, or the premise is wrong.

Hopefully it's just the former and the town of TSP, Delta, and Sig who are paying close attention to the game are going to figure it all out.

Don’t worry we’re not

[sig]

delta's mafia tbh ngl imo btw

I’ll recant my previous post to say if we have mafia in west it’s probably them.

[WindwardAway]

I actually think TSP gunning for Nutella when she's not the most popular or likely wolf candidate is towny from him

[Master Radishes]

Like this is somewhat skewed by where I've placed attention, but if I had to make a readslist without considering East/West I think all 5 of the Westers would be in my bottom 5.

Which is ridiculous.

[Master Radishes]

I suppose it's also ridiculous to feel so doomer when it's presumably 1 v 1 v 7.

But there are multiple deaths pretty much every round, and I suspect it will happen again here, so those numbers could drop quickly.

[Master Radishes]

Has everyone picked a Tarot card by this point?

[WindwardAway]

What I'm struggling with is the fact that in a vacuum I'd much rather vote Delta or Sig or even TSP or Epi, but I'm instead supposed to focus on a PoE of 3 others whom I largely find nothing wrong with.

SO, if we expand the PoE, who and why?

Delta I kinda get.

Sig I still think is town in spite of certain thread entrances made today.

Epi based on Falc/DM treatment I had an eye raised for but nothing more as this does feel like town Epi.

I'll even toss Leetic in there as Leetic's vote on me following what looks like busywork came off as really off to me (I acknowlege that there's a large bit of omgussy bias in here, but after several unexplained suspicions of me, I think my omgussy bias is at least not worth throwing away immediately.)

I'd probably go Delta first, having not really looked back into any of them recently. He's kind of here but not really pushing much, promising to do things but then not really following through.

Sig I remember thinking had possible associations with falcon, but don't quiz me because that was ages ago that I thought that.

TSP doing TSP things could really go either way.

Leetic is working hard but I think they're the archetype to do that as a wolf trying to solo it? Like most would get demoralised, but a rare few step up their game. And they seem much less abrasive than I expect from my very limited meta knowledge.

Epi seems fine on the surface but the Falcon defence could definitely be a thing. I dunno.

Yeah, I also thought that about Sig on N0, but I cooled on it because so many people in the East thread said they thought Sig was town, plus Sig has felt fine in this thread after the merge. And I think we can rule out Sig being a landlord because I believe Abbi was trying to pocket him early on, during N0 (see, I did get some use out of backreading there).

Delta i think has been tonally fine but I've heard a lot of contrary opinions on what went on in West.

TSP i commented on above.

Leetic has been a little less abrasive than he was on N0 but I don't necessarily think it's indicative of alignment. At least he's been putting effort into the game.

I don't think I see Epi as an arbiter. He made a whole ass case on how I fit exactly as an arbiter because of interactions, and I doubt he'd dig that deep just to throw dirt at me if he knew my flip wouldn't clear him.

[WindwardAway]

Has everyone picked a Tarot card by this point?

I actually regret picking one. As PoE I shouldn't have claimed anything and taken the hated stack instead.

[WindwardAway]

I just went "ooh, cards" and didn't think further than that lmao

[Master Radishes]

I didn't care at first, checked later and most were gone, and chose the Devil because it sounds badass.

[nutella]

What I'm struggling with is the fact that in a vacuum I'd much rather vote Delta or Sig or even TSP or Epi, but I'm instead supposed to focus on a PoE of 3 others whom I largely find nothing wrong with.

yeah this

[sig]

I’d love to just vote Wilgy and call it a day but as I’m reading up hes definitely within his town meta

I wish I had meta on any of the other people in East Facility tbh. I've seen nut and Wilgy as town but I don't believe I've ever played with MR before, and I've never seen any of them wolf. So instead I'm just running in circles trying to figure out who's solving with town intent and who's solving with an agenda. Problem is, both remaining wolves are likely legitimately scoping each other out because they also need to kill each other.

This is very likely the biggest issue right now.

[sig]

What’re the chance Nutella accidentally shot mafia and decided to roll with it and play that up

[sig]

@TonyStarkPrime what’s the case on Nutella and who else would you think is mafia

[WindwardAway]

What’re the chance Nutella accidentally shot mafia and decided to roll with it and play that up

I don't believe she'd accidentally shoot her partner, for sure
I mean, I was in a game once where my partner purposely vigged me and then slanked until endgame off the towncred and the players rioted and faulted the host for letting her shoot me
But that's not exactly a normal mafia play, and in that previous game, I was getting wagoned so it was justified since I would've died anyway

[Master Radishes]

I'm going rogue and listlessly isoing outside the 'Core Four'.

Delta's iso is just so...empty.

[Master Radishes]

What’re the chance Nutella accidentally shot mafia and decided to roll with it and play that up

I don't believe she'd accidentally shoot her partner, for sure
I mean, I was in a game once where my partner purposely vigged me and then slanked until endgame off the towncred and the players rioted and faulted the host for letting her shoot me
But that's not exactly a normal mafia play, and in that previous game, I was getting wagoned so it was justified since I would've died anyway

A wolf vigging their partner and riding the cred to victory?

Wonder if @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME finds that concept familiar...

[WindwardAway]

What’re the chance Nutella accidentally shot mafia and decided to roll with it and play that up

I don't believe she'd accidentally shoot her partner, for sure
I mean, I was in a game once where my partner purposely vigged me and then slanked until endgame off the towncred and the players rioted and faulted the host for letting her shoot me
But that's not exactly a normal mafia play, and in that previous game, I was getting wagoned so it was justified since I would've died anyway

Or did you mean if the vig had like a low success rate and she accidentally succeeded?

[WindwardAway]

I feel like it's not really worth thinking too deeply about

[sig]

What’re the chance Nutella accidentally shot mafia and decided to roll with it and play that up

I don't believe she'd accidentally shoot her partner, for sure
I mean, I was in a game once where my partner purposely vigged me and then slanked until endgame off the towncred and the players rioted and faulted the host for letting her shoot me
But that's not exactly a normal mafia play, and in that previous game, I was getting wagoned so it was justified since I would've died anyway

Or did you mean if the vig had like a low success rate and she accidentally succeeded?

I’m thinking more a rebound/vest style thing.

The other option is it was just someone on the other team

[WindwardAway]

Cause she was pushing Lemon prior to that
If the shot on lemon came out of nowhere, maybe I'd think longer on it
But there was a history of a scumread there

[sig]

I'm going rogue and listlessly isoing outside the 'Core Four'.

Delta's iso is just so...empty.

I have a feeling you’ll say the same about mine

[sig]

What’s delta town meta?

Out of the 5 in west you’ve got

Leetic, epi, me, delta and tsp.

Leetic and Epi have been town reads all game .

I know I’m town.

So either delta or tsp could be mafia, but not both.

[WindwardAway]

What’re the chance Nutella accidentally shot mafia and decided to roll with it and play that up

I don't believe she'd accidentally shoot her partner, for sure
I mean, I was in a game once where my partner purposely vigged me and then slanked until endgame off the towncred and the players rioted and faulted the host for letting her shoot me
But that's not exactly a normal mafia play, and in that previous game, I was getting wagoned so it was justified since I would've died anyway

Or did you mean if the vig had like a low success rate and she accidentally succeeded?

I’m thinking more a rebound/vest style thing.

The other option is it was just someone on the other team

You mean if she shot somewhere else and the shot bounced to Lemon?
Idk, based on her reads i could easily believe she would intentionally shoot Lemon as her original target.

[Master Radishes]

I'm going rogue and listlessly isoing outside the 'Core Four'.

Delta's iso is just so...empty.

I have a feeling you’ll say the same about mine

[WindwardAway]

What’s delta town meta?

Out of the 5 in west you’ve got

Leetic, epi, me, delta and tsp.

Leetic and Epi have been town reads all game .

I know I’m town.

So either delta or tsp could be mafia, but not both.

I wish I knew
I've thought he was scummy as town and towny as a 3p
So frankly, idk

[sig]

So I just did a quick ISO of MR and I don’t like what I see.

They mention the members of Arbitr a lot , he always seems to have some level or suspicion of Falcon and lemon, even voting for them multiple times yet anytime another wagon seemed viable he jumped and always seemed to cast shadow of doubts on those two wagons. Overall there’s definitely some flip flopping there.

He barely mentioned Rico and when he did it was mainly positive.


You flip this with the other mafia team that’s flipped and his views all seemed to have been much more concrete with them suggesting TMI with Red Mafia and not landlords

[WindwardAway]

My gut is still telling me that nobody in West is mafia tho

[sig]

Switching. [VOTE: MR] aubergine

I encourage everyone else to read their ISO.

[WindwardAway]

So I just did a quick ISO of MR and I don’t like what I see.

They mention the members of Arbitr a lot , he always seems to have some level or suspicion of Falcon and lemon, even voting for them multiple times yet anytime another wagon seemed viable he jumped and always seemed to cast shadow of doubts on those two wagons. Overall there’s definitely some flip flopping there.

He barely mentioned Rico and when he did it was mainly positive.


You flip this with the other mafia team that’s flipped and his views all seemed to have been much more concrete with them suggesting TMI with Red Mafia and not landlords

Eh
That is also almost exactly how I've played, I'm pretty sure
Granted, you're missing the East thread for full context, but that was only 2 days.

[sig]

@Epignosis come solve the game for me thx

[sig]

Is a demoralized Nutella mafia with a destroyed team or town I guess woudl be the question for her. Overall she’s played a townie game and is definitely not a landlord.

She could be arbiter, I guess but i recall her hunting pretty evenly

[nutella]

I won't fight a Radishes yeet for sure but my current called shot is wind + delta

[nutella]

I had radish as more likely than wind for a good couple days though mm

[Master Radishes]

So I just did a quick ISO of MR and I don’t like what I see.

They mention the members of Arbitr a lot , he always seems to have some level or suspicion of Falcon and lemon, even voting for them multiple times yet anytime another wagon seemed viable he jumped and always seemed to cast shadow of doubts on those two wagons. Overall there’s definitely some flip flopping there.

He barely mentioned Rico and when he did it was mainly positive.


You flip this with the other mafia team that’s flipped and his views all seemed to have been much more concrete with them suggesting TMI with Red Mafia and not landlords

Oh no I flip flopped which no civ ever does

[Delta]

Pyxxy:

Interactions were p limited and revolved heavily around solving Scrappy & their identity, who we now know was town.

Aside from that, interactions w/ the alive players were;

- Epi: Made a remark about Epi finding Pyxxy scummy for playing similar to a wolf game that just ended, while Pyxxy thought he was playing differently. Also saved a VC which showed Epi was voting him early on.
- Leetic: Told Leetic they couldn't read him, called their vote on him scummy & voted them in return.

Nothing about Sig D1.

back, sorry, moving onto falcon, rico & abi now

[sig]

I won't fight a Radishes yeet for sure but my current called shot is wind + delta

I’m back and forth on both, but haven’t read winds ISO.

[sig]

If delta is the last mafia in west their current efforts make sense, but I also don’t want to bash someone’s for doing thread stuff this late in the game so rip me

[WindwardAway]

Is a demoralized Nutella mafia with a destroyed team or town I guess woudl be the question for her. Overall she’s played a townie game and is definitely not a landlord.

She could be arbiter, I guess but i recall her hunting pretty evenly

I haven't gotten the impression she's demoralized

[nutella]

So I just did a quick ISO of MR and I don’t like what I see.

They mention the members of Arbitr a lot , he always seems to have some level or suspicion of Falcon and lemon, even voting for them multiple times yet anytime another wagon seemed viable he jumped and always seemed to cast shadow of doubts on those two wagons. Overall there’s definitely some flip flopping there.

He barely mentioned Rico and when he did it was mainly positive.


You flip this with the other mafia team that’s flipped and his views all seemed to have been much more concrete with them suggesting TMI with Red Mafia and not landlords

Oh no I flip flopped which no civ ever does

When I say this it's towny but you managed to make it sussy

[Delta]

If delta is the last mafia in west their current efforts make sense, but I also don’t want to bash someone’s for doing thread stuff this late in the game so rip me

;_;

I dunno I'm definitely v behind with what I'm doing but if it does come down to 1 wolf left from each team, I do want to cover all ground with what's happened from the flipped wolves

[Master Radishes]

Look, in theory (a very questionable theory) we should just shoot into the East and have a 50% chance of hitting correctly.

But if we hit a town (and I can't help but feel we will) then the survivors need to abandon the idea of wolves only being there.

[WindwardAway]

Look, in theory (a very questionable theory) we should just shoot into the East and have a 50% chance of hitting correctly.

But if we hit a town (and I can't help but feel we will) then the survivors need to abandon the idea of wolves only being there.

If we hit a town and there turns out to be 2 town and 2 wolves then I don't think we should go straight to hunting in West
Cause hitting a town just means higher chance to hit a wolf next day
(that's not actually how it works, but if it goes from 50% to 67% and you assume pure randomness then yes)

[DrWilgy]

Why would I need to preface any statement? Am I not allowed to think 'ugh someone is going to find this questionable' and still post my thoughts anyway?

You are allowed and I'd encourage it, but my question is if you think 'ugh someone is going to find this questionable' why not say it before hand?

if you are a W, you just get a chance at someone not thinking 'ugh someone is going to find this questionable' and only need to post after if you do get heat for it. 'Why attract attention to myself' kinda thinking.

You say 'why not say it before hand' like it's some sort of 'gotcha' and I think it's just a style difference or soemthing. I just don't see why I'd need to say it?

The wagon was a whole three (3) votes. You really think that can't be three town?

And anyway, there are two mafia teams, remember? Two of the mafia wouldn't have known or cared if Lime was on the other team and wouldn't care about positioning in the same way. Lime's one possible teammate wouldn't be able to singlehandedly bolster a counterwagon to save their mate.

Three CAN be town, but those three are including Alison. When it becomes four (including vote recipient) and EVERY other off wagon vote is town it just becomes less likely, ESPECIALLY when a wolf flip occurs.

But, again, we're talking about a wolf team of two, since the other wolf team won't care or worry about the same voting dynamics. Lime was going down - their one single partner is probably more likely to bus and hope for some credit rather than risk being seen as trying to save their partner.


These just feel like weak reasons to find me suspicious, and I'm not saying that makes you scummy because actually if you're town you would be scrounging for reasons to paint me scummy. But you seem to have a lot of conviction it's me for reasoning like this and the reasoning isn't solid imo.

Aye, there is a lot of conviction, but that's because I've only had good results following clear cut wagonomics lines like these, especially when there's 1-2 wolves hiding within them.

I kinda hate that expanding the PoE feels correct, because it also makes me think that my observation of the wagonomics can be wrong.

I also kinda hate expanding the PoE because that's the exact thing that made us lose severance.

But, with you and Nut advocating for it and Nook was also still casing West while alive, the question of "is it more likely that it's just MR/Nut, or DOES the PoE need to actually grow?" becomes very difficult.

[DrWilgy]

FWIW I think last time I saw Delta play like this they were 3p.

Very 3p rangey rn I think.