Kagemusha (ENDGAME)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What has Epignosis actually done in this game that is indicative of his being a civilian? Serious question.

Everyone has seemed town at one point or another. Who cares anymore. Raise the bar.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@TonyStarkPrime if Long Con is mafia, you're probably the one best-suited to tell me that. I am towning him right now, but I acknowledge I am taking leaps to do so. I feel like I have no choice.

[sig]

If Tony is mafia, I lose.
If sig is mafia, I lose.

Four others with 2-3 mafia in them. Epignosis, Long Con, LoRab, falcon45ca

I'll revisit the association dynamics in this smaller set and see what is most viable. And then sig will vote me out with his pecs glistening, and the game will end.

[Long Con]

I also totally forgot about TSP in the above.

Do we think we have two independents? If not he has to be mafia right?

I could also see him being one to do a gambit with Wilgy

I don't believe he is independent. I think he was trying to draw a kill instead of Kagemusha. If he is independent, then whatever. I'm not voting for him.

He didn't need to make up a story to avoid being voted, as he was already generally Townread, right? You might be right.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I also totally forgot about TSP in the above.

Do we think we have two independents? If not he has to be mafia right?

I could also see him being one to do a gambit with Wilgy

I don't believe he is independent. I think he was trying to draw a kill instead of Kagemusha. If he is independent, then whatever. I'm not voting for him.

He didn't need to make up a story to avoid being voted, as he was already generally Townread, right? You might be right.

If he really is hard claiming independent, then I suppose we'll see today. There's no reason to carry on the ruse now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Long Con do you have an initial take on my view of Epignosis?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

Citation: DrWilgy

[Long Con]

@Long Con do you have an initial take on my view of Epignosis?

Could be him and falc. I'll have to read him over with your words in mind.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It’s not Epi Lorab

[Long Con]

I agree that she doesn't pair well with the top suspects.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I suppose my hang up is the expectation that everyone is going to play "optimally" as mafia. I have hosted a ton and that just doesn't happen all the time.

To be clear: most people won't.

In this particular case, there is a core mechanic at work. Some people would miss it. I think some people would not. Tony would not. I know that I would not, but folks can take that or leave it.

I suspect you wouldn't miss it if you were mafia and had proper incentive to read and absorb all that stuff. But I don't have the same degree of confidence.

I do NOT have my head wrapped around this. Too busy.

[VOTE: LoRab] aubergine

Unlikely to be teamed with LoRab

Had momentarily forgotten this. Epi didn't seem to give a crap if LoRab was voted out, and I don't think that's his style with his teammates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

LoRab is only mafia if she is with Long Con. While it's not conclusive, I think their interactions suggest otherwise. Maybe we just clear LoRab here too.

That would be unexpected and very welcome.

[Long Con]

LoRab is only mafia if she is with Long Con. While it's not conclusive, I think their interactions suggest otherwise. Maybe we just clear LoRab here too.

That would be unexpected and very welcome.

Does a Wolf JJJ try so hard to secure clears? Not in my estimation.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I can already smell the prevailing counter theory -- that Long Con and I are both mafia. So before anyone even bothers trying to pull that crap, return to Day 1 and take a look.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Whether folks believe me or not is their own prerogative. I don't give a damn at this point. But for my own peace of mind and perhaps for future reference (in my dreams):

Long Con, when civilian and accused, "annoys" me (for lack of a better word). This is not meant as a criticism of Long Con the person or even the player. He is doing nothing wrong. He is interacting with the game and pursuing what he believes to be appropriate, if he is a civilian. That's okay. But that is exactly what I was waiting for. To ignore accusations entirely and pretend the game barely exists is not quite the same as to laugh in my face for trying to sort him, and the latter has happened before more than once. It's annoying, it's tilting, but it has been authentic every past time I can remember it happening. So I moved my vote to falcon, who has not done anything to suggest he is a civilian.

Thank you and/or I'm sorry.

Everything here on this page should be good evidence that I am not teamed with Long Con.

BuT wHy ArE yOu BrInGiNg ThIs Up UnPrOmPtEd JjJ yOu WOLF????????????????????????

Can it, nerds. The game relies on us clearing people and clearing possible teams, or we're dead. That includes me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It should be plenty apparent that I am not teamed with Epignosis, and not just based on today.

falcon has been complaining at me the whole game. He's clearly not my teammate.

sig wants my head on a pike. He's clearly not my teammate.

Tony is nobody's teammate, and I am a part of nobody. Everybody? Nobody. If you need a reason, I don't sign off on weird indy claims for no reason in mafia chat.

There are probably fewer good reasons for the outside observer to split me from LoRab, but I think her response to my Wilgy blunderkill theory and my response to that should be decent enough.

I fit with nobody.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The mafia are Epignosis and falcon. Confidence increasing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epi has not given a single shit who has been eliminated any day phase. Look at his posts. He does not care. He has flirted with plenty votes himself on various candidates to be eliminated (at least including both Abigails, Simon, LoRab, and myself). The standout frequent wagons that he never contributed to nor acknowledged whatsoever were the falcon wagons.

[Epignosis]

Epi has not given a single shit who has been eliminated any day phase. Look at his posts. He does not care. He has flirted with plenty votes himself on various candidates to be eliminated (at least including both Abigails, Simon, LoRab, and myself). The standout frequent wagons that he never contributed to nor acknowledged whatsoever were the falcon wagons.

I admire you for playing the game the way it is supposed to be played.

It's true that I have not given a single shit.

Look at my posts.

I do not care.

I flirted with plenty votes.

The sad thing is I will not be in a position to care or flirt further, given that it is Friday night.

Good job JJJ.

Good job Long Con.

Child killing bastards.

[Epignosis]

It should be plenty apparent that I am not teamed with Epignosis, and not just based on today.

Now you're speaking truth!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh, I read that.

I'm just saying I wouldn't mind playing the long game for credibility and I think you'd do something similar (and LC certainly wouldn't be opposed to that).

Maybe that's true in your case. But I am not making a mechanically suboptimal kill unless it provides some kind of clear and major psychological advantage. Killing Wilgy doesn't make me look any better, as evidenced by the current wagon. I'm not even sure the "gambit" approach would even occur to me as mafia, because I play the game straight. I pursue the advantage in front of me.

Anyway, if people aren't going to take this evidence seriously, then there's no reason for me to keep babbling about it. I'm glad this wasn't a mafia gambit, because good lord it sucked as a gambit. Absolute failure.

All right. I think that's a fair argument.

I also don't think an honest Epignosis is likely to accept anything I said yesterday about the Wilgy kill, true as it may have been. He is allergic to this stuff, so "okay fair" is hard to believe.

[Epignosis]

I'll be serving my daimyo all weekend, so good luck civilians.

My daimyo is in Houston watching his alma mater advance.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It should be plenty apparent that I am not teamed with Epignosis, and not just based on today.

Now you're speaking truth!

Way to ignore the previous bit about Long Con and I. Inconsistent with your obvious agenda.

[Epignosis]

Oh, I read that.

I'm just saying I wouldn't mind playing the long game for credibility and I think you'd do something similar (and LC certainly wouldn't be opposed to that).

Maybe that's true in your case. But I am not making a mechanically suboptimal kill unless it provides some kind of clear and major psychological advantage. Killing Wilgy doesn't make me look any better, as evidenced by the current wagon. I'm not even sure the "gambit" approach would even occur to me as mafia, because I play the game straight. I pursue the advantage in front of me.

Anyway, if people aren't going to take this evidence seriously, then there's no reason for me to keep babbling about it. I'm glad this wasn't a mafia gambit, because good lord it sucked as a gambit. Absolute failure.

All right. I think that's a fair argument.

I also don't think an honest Epignosis is likely to accept anything I said yesterday about the Wilgy kill, true as it may have been. He is allergic to this stuff, so "okay fair" is hard to believe.

You act as though I've given this entire game the benefit of my thought...and you just said...

"Epi has not given a single shit who has been eliminated any day phase."

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You act as though I've given this entire game the benefit of my thought...and you just said...

"Epi has not given a single shit who has been eliminated any day phase."

I suspect you'd have given a shit if falcon was closer to death.

What is your read on him? Say something about falcon.

[Epignosis]

It should be plenty apparent that I am not teamed with Epignosis, and not just based on today.

Now you're speaking truth!

Way to ignore the previous bit about Long Con and I. Inconsistent with your obvious agenda.

Wait, wait, wait.

Hold on.

It's around here somewhere.

No, that's not it.

No, not that either.

Damn it!

I know I-

Oh hello!

Here we are!

Spoiler: show

[Long Con]

Epi has not given a single shit who has been eliminated any day phase. Look at his posts. He does not care. He has flirted with plenty votes himself on various candidates to be eliminated (at least including both Abigails, Simon, LoRab, and myself). The standout frequent wagons that he never contributed to nor acknowledged whatsoever were the falcon wagons.

I admire you for playing the game the way it is supposed to be played.

It's true that I have not given a single shit.

Look at my posts.

I do not care.

I flirted with plenty votes.

The sad thing is I will not be in a position to care or flirt further, given that it is Friday night.

Good job JJJ.

Good job Long Con.

Child killing bastards.

[TonyStarkPrime]

you guys suck at mafia

[TonyStarkPrime]

I cannot /believe/ I leave the thread for an hour and you all pile on the second most likely remaining BTSC member (behind of course younger brother)

[TonyStarkPrime]

Somebody was paying enough attention to figure out that it still was younger brother

[TonyStarkPrime]

Not like this negativity is exactly warranted but like

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime if Long Con is mafia, you're probably the one best-suited to tell me that. I am towning him right now, but I acknowledge I am taking leaps to do so. I feel like I have no choice.

Think he could be. Don’t care. We’re chopping the people we’re chopping.

[TonyStarkPrime]

It’s probably the solve.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Genuinely the last time I felt like this was the mafia sweep in S8 and as soon as SK led the chop on the town doctor I just knew that he was never town and it wasn’t going to matter and like I do feel the same way about Jay here but SK is an incredibly good wolf and supposedly Jay doesn’t have it in his range

[TonyStarkPrime]

Man

[TonyStarkPrime]

However, my view on Jay hasn’t changed his willingness to switch from lorab/falcon to Simon is a red flag especially given his other theory which we were keeping quite but no point now.

I quite literally had no clue what do with my vote. Everyone felt like a guess. Ask yourself if you'd have a clue what you're doing if you didn't have me to sus about.

(I suspected motobot was the most likely Kagemusha/Shingen by a decent margin and accordingly never went after him beyond generic paranoia that he might be teamed with his dad -- Simon didn't even vote at EOD and seemed unconcerned that his own destruction would ruin the game).

Sorry Jay this is a tunnel I’m not leaving quite yet

But for the sake of the experiment if it isn’t you or epi we need 3

Falcon, lorab, TSP, and LC

If we say Falcon and lorab aren’t on a team that leaves one mafia one civ and TSP/LC

I’m mainly thinking we have two mafia, but the chance that we could have three means we need three at least in POE.

I think a reread of Falcon and lorab are in order.

I’m also leaning towards the AS voters as a good place to start

Impossible to have 3, game would already be over

[TonyStarkPrime]

I also totally forgot about TSP in the above.

Do we think we have two independents? If not he has to be mafia right?

I could also see him being one to do a gambit with Wilgy

I don't believe he is independent. I think he was trying to draw a kill instead of Kagemusha. If he is independent, then whatever. I'm not voting for him.

bonkers

[TonyStarkPrime]

Mafia DO NOT KILL ME I DO NOT COUNT FOR PARITY even if I’m the only person who seems interested in winning the game of mafia

[TonyStarkPrime]

I just can’t vote Jay. If y’all had voted him out yesterday, fine.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Or Day 2!

[TonyStarkPrime]

That one was partially on me

[TonyStarkPrime]

But whatever I had a separate win con to achieve

[TonyStarkPrime]

LoRab is only mafia if she is with Long Con. While it's not conclusive, I think their interactions suggest otherwise. Maybe we just clear LoRab here too.

That would be unexpected and very welcome.

Does a Wolf JJJ try so hard to secure clears? Not in my estimation.

He has a good count

[TonyStarkPrime]

Also yeah, he does if his partner is Lorab lol

[TonyStarkPrime]

They win the game right here

[TonyStarkPrime]

Somebody was paying enough attention to figure out that it still was younger brother

I mean I said it was younger brother on Day 1

[TonyStarkPrime]

which, it was

[TonyStarkPrime]

Win con etc

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Debating between defending my mafia-aligned prowess in the face of this slander and just letting Tony have his stream of consciousness.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyway there was a good reason to doubt Simon was the BTSC haver so meh