[WOLF WIN] Leporidae Mafia

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will acknowledge I have probably suffered a bias from my previous game, since this one feels quite like a repeat. sig was my own good town read in a dead thread, and he ended up being mafia. Mafia have an easier time clearing the bar in these games.

[Lime Coke]

This sucks because I don't know between the two ladies either.

Like both go through catch ups, Roxy more than FS because she's going through post by post. But both end up with consensus reads with the rest of the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel great with a Delta vote today.

Assuming that's right, I think the next move is Sloonei.

I would also consider Caffeine-free Lime Coke.

I don't think Roxy is mafia.

JJJ could always fool you, but I don't think this is it.

fingersplints is perpetually in the maybe category.

Epi's legacy.

splints is a black box. Not sure why Roxy kills him. Sloonei and Lime Coke could. Any dynamic is probably still open with both still mafia alive.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was hoping to be dead today. I have a trip coming and need to prepare.

I may vote reasonably early anyway. I think towns often make the mistake of waiting too long with locked votes and it prevents them from being able to operate with the information that the lock provides.

[Lime Coke]

I don't actually have a single townread here. It would be so much fucking easier if I did.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonei was off on Day 1, and I probably awarded too much credit for the G-Man kill.

[Lime Coke]

Bleh, good lord.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bleh, good lord.

What's your gun-to-head impression of fingersplints? Just give me a take on her tone if nothing else. How does she feel to you?

[Lime Coke]

Bleh, good lord.

What's your gun-to-head impression of fingersplints? Just give me a take on her tone if nothing else. How does she feel to you?

Her and Sloonei low key is my guess.

FS in her limited time here, had 1 big post that just ended up going over dead people's reads and just coughed out the consensus at the end.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wonder about Sloonei not killing me after Day 1 if he's mafia. That'd be a choice. Perhaps the G-Man kill offered a different out without being so blatant.

[Lime Coke]

Ok I decided to start with the dead players ISO/polls first. Almost all of this has certainly already been discussed, but posting it anyways

falcon

suspicion of Sloonei

delta “probably” maf, jjj town in jjj or delta scenario

maybe suspicion of Lime Coke

Votes Sloonei
(Day ends with falcon 3 - gman, Sloonei, and delta. Sloonei with 2 - falcon, jjj. Delta, Epi, Long Con, and Roxy 1 each)

Night 1 - gman killed

gman

slight suspicion of delta but not enough to make his POE later in last post before his falcon vote

POE - falcon, both LC’s, Roxy, Sloonei

Dr Wilgy

I didn’t get a real clear idea of who he suspected or thought was town from his posts, as there was some joking as is his norm.

Day 1 - he voted Epi but I’m not clear why. Day 2 he didn’t vote.

Vote ended with a tie ( 3 Wilgy - Epi, Lime Coke, Delta. 3 Lime Coke - Roxy, JJJ, Sloonei. 1 Delta - Long Con)

Ok I’ve run out of time to do Long Con as it’s after midnight, but so far my analysis is I can see why Lime coke and delta are getting votes just based on this alone. Delta voted for town killed both days, and received some suspicion by both killed at night (very light suspicion from gman, and voted day 2 from long Con)

Lime Coke was tied yesterday, and on gmans POE so also not a great look.

I’d probably put Sloonei in my POE just based on this ^^^ falcon’s suspicion and falcon being eliminated day 1 when he had second most votes, gmans POE. However voted Lime Coke, not Wilgy so probably not team with LC.

JJJ looking good with both his votes, and seemed town read.

Need further evaluation on epi and Roxy.

JJJ

Epi/Roxy

Sloonei

lime coke/delta

Like all of this... just for bottom 2 of Delta/Me.


I was massively disappointed because I also feel like FS even when she has limited time will still make herself to be obvious town and have something to give that helps town out.
And to add to that: Find me as town because she has a good read on me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Like all of this... just for bottom 2 of Delta/Me.

I was massively disappointed because I also feel like FS even when she has limited time will still make herself to be obvious town and have something to give that helps town out.
And to add to that: Find me as town because she has a good read on me.

I can agree the final product is generic. I thought the process was decent (i.e., I have been out of commission, I'll check on the dead players to regain my footing).

@fingersplints should expand on what made the red reads red.

[Lime Coke]

Like all of this... just for bottom 2 of Delta/Me.

I was massively disappointed because I also feel like FS even when she has limited time will still make herself to be obvious town and have something to give that helps town out.
And to add to that: Find me as town because she has a good read on me.

I can agree the final product is generic. I thought the process was decent (i.e., I have been out of commission, I'll check on the dead players to regain my footing).

@fingersplints should expand on what made the red reads red.

It's a pretty easy thing for mafia to do I would imagine. Like even if she's inactive her partner can just tell her "Yo, our night kills have legacies of having town in their POEs so just look at those when attempting to do analysis" and not give her own opinions on people, which would require reading things and take more time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Show of hands. Is the following statement valid to you, yes or no?

If fingersplints was mafia, she would be more attentive to the game and also have a teammate pushing her into the thread to post and/or vote.

This is absolutely true

I appreciate that Roxy was willing to make this assertive judgment in splints' favor in all worlds apart from exactly the Roxy/splints world. Mafia can scarcely afford to sacrifice available options like splints would present if town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Like all of this... just for bottom 2 of Delta/Me.

I was massively disappointed because I also feel like FS even when she has limited time will still make herself to be obvious town and have something to give that helps town out.
And to add to that: Find me as town because she has a good read on me.

I can agree the final product is generic. I thought the process was decent (i.e., I have been out of commission, I'll check on the dead players to regain my footing).

@fingersplints should expand on what made the red reads red.

It's a pretty easy thing for mafia to do I would imagine. Like even if she's inactive her partner can just tell her "Yo, our night kills have legacies of having town in their POEs so just look at those when attempting to do analysis" and not give her own opinions on people, which would require reading things and take more time.

That could be. I'd not be comfortable banking the game on "decent process" anyway.

Separate note: Delta said his strong town read on you was driven by recent games you played together. Do you have any idea which one(s) he meant?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonie probably is closest to being in the POE since he was pushed on the most.

JJJ hasn't received much attention in terms of scumreads and kinda doesn't have an excuse.

This may be an important point. Sloonei's position has been more tenuous, and from that perspective there ought to be some degree of urgency or mindfulness. From his hypothetically town point of view as of yesterday, if the mafia team is not exactly Delta and Lime Coke, then this game is in a problematic place.

I'm not sure I've seen that sort of urgency in Sloonei's play, and that's a concern.

[Lime Coke]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/40756

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/40326

These are like the main 2 I remember.

[Lime Coke]

And by remember I mean looked at his game history on MU.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/40756

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/40326

These are like the main 2 I remember.

Thank you. I can at least get a quick glance to see if there's a similar vibe or dynamic between you two

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sloonie probably is closest to being in the POE since he was pushed on the most.

JJJ hasn't received much attention in terms of scumreads and kinda doesn't have an excuse.

This may be an important point. Sloonei's position has been more tenuous, and from that perspective there ought to be some degree of urgency or mindfulness. From his hypothetically town point of view as of yesterday, if the mafia team is not exactly Delta and Lime Coke, then this game is in a problematic place.

I'm not sure I've seen that sort of urgency in Sloonei's play, and that's a concern.

To extend, perhaps this reconciles Delta's sort of "paralysis", particularly given his town read on Lime Coke. Deep in the POE, Delta did play the game like something is wrong. Lime Coke has been reasonably similar in that light.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Delta (831)

this guy

[JaggedJimmyJay]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/40756

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/40326

These are like the main 2 I remember.

While it's difficult to compare a champs semifinal (first link) to this extremely slow game, I at least observe a basic parallel at a glance. Lime and Delta town read each other and seemed to enjoy a certain synergy (example and the very next post). So there's precedent for that.

The role madness game (second link) is hard to follow without context that I don't have time to gather (and I am probably missing mechanical stuff). If there's a parallel here: once Delta decided to town read Lime Coke, that read was stated with confidence (example).

Just thinking aloud here to assess Delta's read on Lime and how closely I should heed it. I also ask myself how suspicious I would find Lime Coke in a vacuum, with no G-Man kill or other potential biases that this game presents -- I'm not sure I have much suspicion. Even today he is engaged, albeit in "bleh" mode. This is a valid time for bleh mode.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Need more voices in here.

[Lime Coke]

I'll be back a little bit later. Roxy typically doesn't post until like AM for me so I don't see much happening until her and Sloonei show up.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Sloonei when I voiced concerns about you and voted to eliminate you on Day 1, I don’t recall you engaging with that at all.

It’s unusual for JaggedJimmyJay to place a vote for Sloonei. I would think it’d be newsworthy. What gives?

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei when I voiced concerns about you and voted to eliminate you on Day 1, I don’t recall you engaging with that at all.

It’s unusual for JaggedJimmyJay to place a vote for Sloonei. I would think it’d be newsworthy. What gives?

I was hardly here at all Day 1. If you voiced concerns about me, I probably received it as nothing more than a nudge to get more involved. I did that when I was able on Days 2 & 3.

[Sloonei]

ISOs will be happening tomorrow.

[Sloonei]

My hypothetical vote is on fingersplints to start the day. No firm reason.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Sloonei when I voiced concerns about you and voted to eliminate you on Day 1, I don’t recall you engaging with that at all.

It’s unusual for JaggedJimmyJay to place a vote for Sloonei. I would think it’d be newsworthy. What gives?

I was hardly here at all Day 1. If you voiced concerns about me, I probably received it as nothing more than a nudge to get more involved. I did that when I was able on Days 2 & 3.

Is this meant to imply that you were unaware?

[fingersplints]

Well damn

[fingersplints]

Ok I decided to start with the dead players ISO/polls first. Almost all of this has certainly already been discussed, but posting it anyways

falcon

suspicion of Sloonei

delta “probably” maf, jjj town in jjj or delta scenario

maybe suspicion of Lime Coke

Votes Sloonei
(Day ends with falcon 3 - gman, Sloonei, and delta. Sloonei with 2 - falcon, jjj. Delta, Epi, Long Con, and Roxy 1 each)

Night 1 - gman killed

gman

slight suspicion of delta but not enough to make his POE later in last post before his falcon vote

POE - falcon, both LC’s, Roxy, Sloonei

Dr Wilgy

I didn’t get a real clear idea of who he suspected or thought was town from his posts, as there was some joking as is his norm.

Day 1 - he voted Epi but I’m not clear why. Day 2 he didn’t vote.

Vote ended with a tie ( 3 Wilgy - Epi, Lime Coke, Delta. 3 Lime Coke - Roxy, JJJ, Sloonei. 1 Delta - Long Con)

Ok I’ve run out of time to do Long Con as it’s after midnight, but so far my analysis is I can see why Lime coke and delta are getting votes just based on this alone. Delta voted for town killed both days, and received some suspicion by both killed at night (very light suspicion from gman, and voted day 2 from long Con)

Lime Coke was tied yesterday, and on gmans POE so also not a great look.

I’d probably put Sloonei in my POE just based on this ^^^ falcon’s suspicion and falcon being eliminated day 1 when he had second most votes, gmans POE. However voted Lime Coke, not Wilgy so probably not team with LC.

JJJ looking good with both his votes, and seemed town read.

Need further evaluation on epi and Roxy.

JJJ

Epi/Roxy

Sloonei

lime coke/delta

Like all of this... just for bottom 2 of Delta/Me.


I was massively disappointed because I also feel like FS even when she has limited time will still make herself to be obvious town and have something to give that helps town out.
And to add to that: Find me as town because she has a good read on me.

Well I am also disappointed in my ability to play this game so far. But couldn’t be helped. I’ll be around some more today as I’m now at a nice raining beach holiday

I did mention when I voted that I think you/sloonei would impact how I feel about the other. Delta’s vouch that this is your town game holds some weight, so definitely looking at Sloonei even more now.

Are you saying at the end I have a good read on you?

[fingersplints]

Like all of this... just for bottom 2 of Delta/Me.

I was massively disappointed because I also feel like FS even when she has limited time will still make herself to be obvious town and have something to give that helps town out.
And to add to that: Find me as town because she has a good read on me.

I can agree the final product is generic. I thought the process was decent (i.e., I have been out of commission, I'll check on the dead players to regain my footing).

@fingersplints should expand on what made the red reads red.

My vote analysis and thoughts on why dead players might have been killed. Need to review vote analysis with a town delta thrown in the mix and Epi kill

[fingersplints]

viewtopic.php?p=1118043#p1118043

I said that JJJ was looking good with his votes.

But, if Sloonei is mafia and Lime Coke is town: jjj’s votes don’t look good anymore. He still voted Sloonei on day 1 but not unusual for mafia to vote a teammate on day 1 when not in real danger, then voted Lime Coke day 2 and I believe delta day 3.

Plus this to me really feels like trying to put subtle doubt on Sloonei being mafia:

I wonder about Sloonei not killing me after Day 1 if he's mafia. That'd be a choice. Perhaps the G-Man kill offered a different out without being so blatant.

[fingersplints]

fingersplints/JJJ
fingersplints/Lime Coke
fingersplints/Roxy
fingersplints/Sloonei
JJJ/Lime Coke
JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Lime Coke/Roxy
Lime Coke/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Going through all possibly pairings, I even included myself there for everyone to use, but I’m going to eliminate those for myself now as I know I’m town. I’ve also said I don’t think LC and Sloonei are together.

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

[fingersplints]

Been doing reading, and from Roxy, I can’t say that there is anything I found there that says she COULDN’T be paired with either JJJ or Sloonei, I didn’t find anything making it LIKELY either. I didn’t find anything too suspicious in her posts at all

[Roxy]

fingersplints/JJJ
fingersplints/Lime Coke
fingersplints/Roxy
fingersplints/Sloonei
JJJ/Lime Coke
JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Lime Coke/Roxy
Lime Coke/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Going through all possibly pairings, I even included myself there for everyone to use, but I’m going to eliminate those for myself now as I know I’m town. I’ve also said I don’t think LC and Sloonei are together.

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Do you think I'm bad? I really thought you would come in here and be like Rox is civ.
I do like that you looked at posts made this analysis but to group me like I'm a baddie, ok I guess.

If you were voting now where do you vote?

[Roxy]

I only have time to read this page until Ariya leaves at about 2 est.
I'll be back then.

[fingersplints]

fingersplints/JJJ
fingersplints/Lime Coke
fingersplints/Roxy
fingersplints/Sloonei
JJJ/Lime Coke
JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Lime Coke/Roxy
Lime Coke/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Going through all possibly pairings, I even included myself there for everyone to use, but I’m going to eliminate those for myself now as I know I’m town. I’ve also said I don’t think LC and Sloonei are together.

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Do you think I'm bad? I really thought you would come in here and be like Rox is civ.
I do like that you looked at posts made this analysis but to group me like I'm a baddie, ok I guess.

If you were voting now where do you vote?

This is what I had left just after vote analysis. I read your posts after and said I didn’t find anything too suspicious at all. I’d say you are more likely to be town at this point, leaving sloonei and jjj left.

If I was voting right now I’d vote Sloonei

[fingersplints]

voted delta

Almost forgot to vote, no one is listening to me about Lime so I followed Epi the only other one I trust

I read this as town Rox. Slightly annoyed you feel no one is listening to you, which I don’t feel you’d want to say if you were mafia

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei when I voiced concerns about you and voted to eliminate you on Day 1, I don’t recall you engaging with that at all.

It’s unusual for JaggedJimmyJay to place a vote for Sloonei. I would think it’d be newsworthy. What gives?

I was hardly here at all Day 1. If you voiced concerns about me, I probably received it as nothing more than a nudge to get more involved. I did that when I was able on Days 2 & 3.

Is this meant to imply that you were unaware?

I have no distinct memories of anything that you had to say about me on Day 1, but I vaguely remember seeing you make reference to me.

As I said, I was hardly here at all that phase. Most of my Day 1 involvement was in the form of quick glances down at my phone while out of the house.

[fingersplints]

@Roxy if you had to vote right now who would you vote?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

viewtopic.php?p=1118043#p1118043

I said that JJJ was looking good with his votes.

But, if Sloonei is mafia and Lime Coke is town: jjj’s votes don’t look good anymore. He still voted Sloonei on day 1 but not unusual for mafia to vote a teammate on day 1 when not in real danger, then voted Lime Coke day 2 and I believe delta day 3.

Plus this to me really feels like trying to put subtle doubt on Sloonei being mafia:

I wonder about Sloonei not killing me after Day 1 if he's mafia. That'd be a choice. Perhaps the G-Man kill offered a different out without being so blatant.

I've considered both sides of the equation for Sloonei today, including that one. I'll be doing a more thorough review soon, and I'll see how I feel. I'm not certain of anything, and any "subtle doubt" that may be interpreted in whatever I have to say is a product of that uncertainty.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

I was thinking a bit earlier about Lime Coke in a similar light. Beyond even voting patterns, he seems difficult to pair with any of you. To my memory, Sloonei consistently included him as a suspect in light of the G-Man kill, he and Roxy were pretty antagonistic, and today he has directly griped with your reads more than anyone's.

So I am inclined to agree with your general conclusion. If he has no teammates, he is not mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Given that votes are locked, and many of us are operating on constrained schedules (i.e., we cannot sit in the game thread all day), I think we're going to need to get to voting sooner than later. That doesn't necessarily have to mean everyone votes soon, but it would be very disadvantageous for us to wait until near the deadline when 1) people can scarcely be here at the same time, 2) we need time to assess what happens as a result of each vote, because locked votes add more information than changing votes, and 3) I have spectated or played a bunch of locked votes "lylo" phases, and town nearly always fails when waiting too long to vote.

If I have to go first to kickstart this, I will do so. Not right now, but I won't wait around too long either.

[Sloonei]

fingersplints iso

Hello all! Late to the party but glad to see the game has started. I’ve had an unusually busy Saturday booked in advanced for SEN activities for my daughter. I would have warned if I’d known the game would start now. one of the events was at the natural history museum which we love, but the museum had to be emergency evacuated. Was pretty crazy

I’ve scanned really
JJJ has a lot to live up to in leading the town if that’s what he is
can’t read Epignosis
I think Rox is town
I have a healthy suspicion of falcon for initiating the low voter talk but he also seems normal I’m conflicted there
I have no reason to trust long Con yet

Generic observation about Jay, not directly related to anything in this game.
Unsubstantiated town read on Roxy.
Mentions three days players: "Healthy suspicion" of the Day 1 victim, falcon. Varying levels of distrust in Long Con and Epi for no given reason. Noted.

I’d also say man is behaving what I’d consider quite normally a town lean from him

(G)-man town read. Noted.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

The pressure he directed toward me early in the day fwlt aimless and arbitrary.

I had a pretty different perspective of this. I will give falcon a little time (maybe very little with the deadline approaching) to answer for himself before I expand.

With time constrained, I will expand on this. I thought falcon's take on Sloonei was pretty token. When asked for reads, Sloonei gave two that could be viewed as "generic" (that Delta and I earned a town point for making the game move). While I don't think those reads necessarily indicate that Sloonei is mafia, I was not surprised that falcon griped. They were easy reads to make that defer thread engagement to others without "ruffling feathers" (or it's easy to understand why someone would perceive them that way). Perhaps that's a surface accusation on falcon's part, but I'd call that kind of thing his M.O.

I think you have made some good points

Implication seems to be that this argument from Jay is at least part of the reason she suspects falcon.

Well we have eight minutes. I don't feel a falcon vote.

I also don’t feel a falcon vote.

~5 minutes before deadline, splints is no longer on board the falcon train. Interesting. If she's mafia, she does not have much reason to voice this. She's laid the groundwork for an easy falcon vote and can just park it there if she wants. Of course, that would then come back to reflect poorly on her with falcon's flip, so maybe she was just hesitant to tie her name to falcon's flip. But this feels like an odd moment to get cold feet if it's not real hesitation. Let's see what she does instead...

She didn't vote at all on Day 1. Oh.

Big post upon returning on Day 3. I've commented briefly on this post already, and I can only really echo the same sentiment I expressed previously. I appreciate this post and am inclined to give splints a slight town lean for it, but her analysis is not so overwhelming that I feel strongly about it one way or the other. I simply like that she make a tangible effort to dig in and get involved in the game. Her conclusions are difficult to gauge at this time. She landed at the consensus opinion that Lime Coke and Delta were mafia. I was feeling the same way around that time.

I haven’t had any time yet today, so my thoughts are still where they were last night.

Benefit of a Lime Coke/Sloonei vote would be it would impact how I feel about the other as I still think unlikely they are together. But I’m ok with a delta vote as seems most likely as of right now.


[VOTE: Delta] aubergine

States a preference to split the vote between myself and Lime Coke, but joins the Delta wagon instead. Granted, she says that she feels more confident about Delta than either myself or Mr. Coke.

viewtopic.php?p=1118043#p1118043

I said that JJJ was looking good with his votes.

But, if Sloonei is mafia and Lime Coke is town: jjj’s votes don’t look good anymore. He still voted Sloonei on day 1 but not unusual for mafia to vote a teammate on day 1 when not in real danger, then voted Lime Coke day 2 and I believe delta day 3.

Plus this to me really feels like trying to put subtle doubt on Sloonei being mafia:

I wonder about Sloonei not killing me after Day 1 if he's mafia. That'd be a choice. Perhaps the G-Man kill offered a different out without being so blatant.

Posts a Sloonei/JJJ mafia pairing. That feels a bit bold if she is mafia, even in a lylo situation where we need to be hunting for pairings.

Spoiler: show

fingersplints/JJJ
fingersplints/Lime Coke
fingersplints/Roxy
fingersplints/Sloonei
JJJ/Lime Coke
JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Lime Coke/Roxy
Lime Coke/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Going through all possibly pairings, I even included myself there for everyone to use, but I’m going to eliminate those for myself now as I know I’m town. I’ve also said I don’t think LC and Sloonei are together.

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

I like to see this level of work to narrow the POE. Is it genuine? Idk. But I like the approach.

Been doing reading, and from Roxy, I can’t say that there is anything I found there that says she COULDN’T be paired with either JJJ or Sloonei, I didn’t find anything making it LIKELY either. I didn’t find anything too suspicious in her posts at all

Roxy is a potential suspect, but lacks concrete evidence. Noted.

voted delta

Almost forgot to vote, no one is listening to me about Lime so I followed Epi the only other one I trust

I read this as town Rox. Slightly annoyed you feel no one is listening to you, which I don’t feel you’d want to say if you were mafia

Gives Roxy a townie point for her Delta vote, though. Hm.


If I read these posts without thinking about Process of Elimination, then my gut says that Fingersplints is town. I would expect a mafia member in her position to be working harder to find reasons to bury a suspect or two. Instead, splints has not been overly critical of anyone, and even eliminated perhaps the easiest option (Lime Coke) from her suspect pool. HOWEVER, a fingersplints/lime coke pairing would be a possibility in that world. They can win the game if they both survive this phase. Splints moving the conversation away from Lime Coke is an efficient strategy to end the game quickly.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Reviewing Sloonei

Spoiler: show

Any thoughts so far?

You and Jay have done an adequate job of hoisting this game out of the silent void it was resting in. Enough so to award you each a townie point.

Sloonei's first couple of reads were aligned with general Day 1 consensus. These were easy reads to make in the moment that ought not move the needle much for Sloonei.

Any thoughts so far?

You and Jay have done an adequate job of hoisting this game out of the silent void it was resting in. Enough so to award you each a townie point.

Sloonei's Maf

Waffling on Sloonei is the path to destruction. One must either love him or take him out of the game. There can be no middle path.

Outdated take.

Is this a take you recognize from past G-Man? I found it a tad awkward.

It is not a G-man-specific take. But I see it as a variation of the old “Sloonei is a self-resolving player” take that would have been true a few years ago.

This seems to be a prophecy fulfilled, because we're in the final stages of the game and indeed Sloonei has not self-resolved.

I think Epi is town.

Another read. It's fine. In the moment I thought it might be a little bit of a piggyback from a post I'd made soon before this about Epignosis. In that sense it could also be called "easy", though not necessarily "forced".

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

The pressure he directed toward me early in the day fwlt aimless and arbitrary.

This was where I first took issue with Sloonei on Day 1. I thought this seemed hyperbolic or uncharitable. falcon had suspected Sloonei based on the latter's town credit for Delta and I (mentioned earlier in this review). I thought that was a pretty token falcon suspicion, and I wouldn't have used words like "aimless and arbitrary" to describe it. It was pretty pointed and based on concrete data.

~~~

[The next stage of this review refers not to posts, but to the absence of posts, because I believe this to be important]

Late in Day 1, there are two non-developments from Sloonei that trouble me.

1) I voted for him myself, and he did not respond to or engage with that at all. Today he has suggested that he was only vaguely aware of this in the first place, and I find that hard to believe. Even if Sloonei is just visiting the thread occasionally on his vote, he can see the poll (with my vote for him in it). Sloonei and I have a very long history of playing off of each other and directly interacting within games, so I would expect him to find my vote at least surprising or worthy of comment. To say nothing at all is perhaps the response I'd least expect from him. I know he was present for it, because he made three posts after my vote before the day ended.

2) I was not thrilled with voting falcon out on Day 1, and I said as much a few times late in Day 1 (or that I thought he was more town than not). He did not engage with my town read or with my rationale. I will acknowledge here that Sloonei may not have been present during the final stretch, however, as his last post was an hour pre-EOD. He will have to speak to that himself. He did a bit later

~~~

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: delta] aubergine That was easy to understand.

I'm kinda just caught off guard by it is all?

Yeah, that feels exagerrated though. Kind of fake.

I don't like this.

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Nah, that's bull. I don't know if this narrative of single voters has merit, but I see no difference between them and a Sloonei voter. At all.

Delta's reaction to falcon wanting to keep players in that hadn't played in a while was not believable to me, the level of "oh my god WHAT??" was cranked too high. Artificial drama. My suspicion should be pretty legitimate upon analysis, so analyze and try again please.

b) I understood falcon's perspective because I share it. Because I agree with it. And I think most peoples' here history with me should back up that I am JUST that kind of "heart" player. I would rather keep an old friend that I miss in the game than go after them for any reason at all.

Name one player that fits the bill more than G-man, even in this game with fingersplints, JJJ, Sloonei, Roxy, G-man stands out as a very special presence that I would have liked to appreciate for more than Day 1.

The wolves made a mistake, and the result is that they might as well kill me on Night 2, now, as respectfully as possible, please remove this obviously off-target vote from me, and let's try and expand this concept further.

Long Con is town.

I'm not sure Sloonei goes for this kill either. He's G-Man's biggest fan.

I probably kill Delta here.

Sloonei dove right in with the G-Man kill theory on Day 2, at least inasmuch as he immediately cleared Long Con. To be fair, Long Con's town stock significantly spiked early in this day.

I've had an odd time trying to develop a meta read on falcon in the few games I've played over the last couple years. He's been a constant presence in those games, and he was already a somewhat familiar face before I took my sabbatical. But over the last, say, 5-6 games that I have played I have felt like I have seen a trend where mafia-falcon is a bit more reckless with his early-game accusations. These posts felt like they leaned a bit more toward that side of the spectrum.

The initial gripe, that I gave "the most boiler plate response" possible, followed by a generic prod + vote felt hollow to me. It felt more like the version of falcon I've seen that's more interested in causing a ruckus than in actually solving the players he's grilling. Evidently I was wrong.

I'm not clear on what made falcon's accusation "reckless". It's unusual for me to not follow Sloonei's train of thought or at least understand the premise of his argument.

[VOTE: delta] aubergine

I did this before I realized that Long Con was already parked there. Whoops. I don't want to create the illusion of a strong wagon in a game of this size and volume.

But I have a silly idea in my head that I want to pursue.

The "silly idea" was the G-Man kill, and the theory that a long-time Syndicate member would be less likely to agree to that kill. It became the prevailing theory, so whatever. I'd be more comfortable if there'd been some engagement with Delta about it, since he'd been a town read previously.

If we operate under the assumption that G-man was not killed by an Old Syndicate Person, that leaves us with only Lime Coke and Delta. I feel like chances are slim (but not zero) that they’re both mafia.

So which old folk(s) are most likely to have murdered G-bun in cold blood?

Spilints. Wilgy.

You?

Wilgy and maybe Jay would be my gut picks.

0 for 2

I think Sloonei's timing to push Falcon and now myself has felt odd, but would like to pick at his reasoning for pushing me a bit more at least. Just kinda looking at his shift to Falcon yesterday to bring them tied feels sketchy, doing so again today to make me killable when I had said yesterday I would likely vote him just feels weird

What is sketchy about my vote for Falcon?

As for voting you today: I simply think the G-man kill is more likely to have come from a mafia team that features at least one of you or Lime Coke. I put no stock in any pressure that you have directed my way when casting this vote.

The timing of it - Falcon was your counterwagon as is, so you coming in and slapping on a weak reason to push him felt like poorly masked self preservation

That happening again today with pushing me when I had said I would vote you feels like it's following a similar pattern to D1

Self-preservation was about 25% of my Falcon vote. I would rather he die than me, especially when I had a weak reason to want to vote for him in a game where I had no explicit reason to vote for most other people.

And, again, I do not register any pressure coming from you and feel absolutely no reason to be concerned about any suspicion you have expressed against me. I do not say that to be dismissive or disrespectful. But A) it has been very mild, so it's not something I've given much thought to. And B) you know me the least of everybody here. I have a certain Reputation among the old school Syndicate folks. I would expect most of the others in this game to form their own opinions of my play independent of your suspicion.

If self-preservation had any role to play in Sloonei's vote on Day 1, then he was aware his own wagon had two votes and almost certainly that I was one of the two votes.

Why are Lime Coke and Delta so sure of each other right now?

I was asking this question internally, so sure.

Show of hands. Is the following statement valid to you, yes or no?

If fingersplints was mafia, she would be more attentive to the game and also have a teammate pushing her into the thread to post and/or vote.

I do not know enough about what’s going on in fingersplints’ day-to-day life to answer this definitively.

I will say that I think a game like this one could be an ideal hiding place for a slanky mafioso.

For some reason that is difficult to describe, this one bugs me. The second sentence. I think there's a logical fallacy at work here, but I am not sure what to call it. The game is an ideal hiding place for any mafia, whether slanky or active, because the game is deathly slow.

@JaggedJimmyJay why is Epi town?

This had been Sloonei's own read previously, so I suppose you tell me.

Does Lime Coke’s treatment of Roxy look like a potential teammate paring?

based on:

My instinct is to maybe vote between Sloonei or Roxy.

More likely Sloonei because scumreading Roxy doesn't feel right at all.

Eh. So on-the-nose. Sloonei's question wasn't absurd or anything, but it's a little iffy.

My immediate reaction is to like fingersplints’ big post. At the very least, I appreciate it and hope that all is well in fingerslpints land.

There is real, visible effort in the post, and that’s a good sign. I could still see a world where mafiasplints feels pressured to post something, so she musters the energy for one big post. But it’s more believable to take the post at face value and accept it as an earnest effort from her to solve the game as best she can right now.

I don't fault Sloonei for the waffle here, as the overall message is clearly a positive one. However, this begs some expansion from Sloonei for his hypothetical "starting point" this day phase that fingersplints would be a vote.

I have some gripes in here. My premier gripe has to do with what Sloonei has not posted. Overall, my concern is that this game has not felt like previous town/town experiences I have had with Sloonei (even in his lower-activity era of recent memory). I don't get the impression that I have existed in Sloonei's solving process, or that he has cared much about what I have posted. Perhaps that's more significant now than ever, when the game hangs in the balance and I am still hardly registering in his content except when I address him myself. I will acknowledge a self-centered bias here, so this is a point that I'd love to hear others speak about it (or about your impressions of Sloonei's engagement with you). I also question his reception of falcon, and his involvement in the game otherwise does not move the needle much.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

With time constrained, I will expand on this. I thought falcon's take on Sloonei was pretty token. When asked for reads, Sloonei gave two that could be viewed as "generic" (that Delta and I earned a town point for making the game move). While I don't think those reads necessarily indicate that Sloonei is mafia, I was not surprised that falcon griped. They were easy reads to make that defer thread engagement to others without "ruffling feathers" (or it's easy to understand why someone would perceive them that way). Perhaps that's a surface accusation on falcon's part, but I'd call that kind of thing his M.O.

I think you have made some good points

Implication seems to be that this argument from Jay is at least part of the reason she suspects falcon.

@fingersplints should clarify her own view that I made good points here, because the message of my post was that falcon was on-brand with his usual town play, not that he was suspicious.

[fingersplints]

With time constrained, I will expand on this. I thought falcon's take on Sloonei was pretty token. When asked for reads, Sloonei gave two that could be viewed as "generic" (that Delta and I earned a town point for making the game move). While I don't think those reads necessarily indicate that Sloonei is mafia, I was not surprised that falcon griped. They were easy reads to make that defer thread engagement to others without "ruffling feathers" (or it's easy to understand why someone would perceive them that way). Perhaps that's a surface accusation on falcon's part, but I'd call that kind of thing his M.O.

I think you have made some good points

Implication seems to be that this argument from Jay is at least part of the reason she suspects falcon.

@fingersplints should clarify her own view that I made good points here, because the message of my post was that falcon was on-brand with his usual town play, not that he was suspicious.

Yes I didn’t think you were saying he was suspicious hence why shortly after I said I also wasn’t feeling a falcon vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yes I didn’t think you were saying he was suspicious hence why shortly after I said I also wasn’t feeling a falcon vote.

That's what I thought, thanks. Wanted to get that straight from Sloonei's review.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Reviewing fingersplints

Spoiler: show

Hello all! Late to the party but glad to see the game has started. I’ve had an unusually busy Saturday booked in advanced for SEN activities for my daughter. I would have warned if I’d known the game would start now. one of the events was at the natural history museum which we love, but the museum had to be emergency evacuated. Was pretty crazy

I’ve scanned really
JJJ has a lot to live up to in leading the town if that’s what he is
can’t read Epignosis
I think Rox is town
I have a healthy suspicion of falcon for initiating the low voter talk but he also seems normal I’m conflicted there
I have no reason to trust long Con yet

I’d also say [G]man is behaving what I’d consider quite normally a town lean from him

These are takes from late Day 1. Her most assertive view is on Roxy, and I think that makes some sense. To my memory, the two of them have played with a similarly close dynamic in the past and are more likely to see strong indicators in one another that others may not see.

I added the [G] to the second post for context. Again, it makes sense for her to be focused primarily on the longer-tenured players (particularly those who don't present a history of unreadability or terror like Epignosis or Long Con).

Well we have eight minutes. I don't feel a falcon vote.

I also don’t feel a falcon vote.

I would be more comfortable had splints placed a vote of her own. That could be called equivalent to a falcon vote mathematically speaking. This was six minutes prior to the deadline, so I'm not sure what happened there.

Hello all, I apologise to the host and everyone playing for my absence. I’ve had a horrendous real life situation come up to contend with. I say this not to try and use it to dissuade any suspicion I have may have gained while I was away, just as an explanation. It is what it is. My time is unfortunately still limited until tomorrow evening, but I will try to do my best to devote whatever time I can to this game. I may ISO rather than read start to finish, as it may help me better at this point. I see delta and lime coke have two votes each. Let me know if there is anyone else I should put at the top of the priority list, or any questions needing answering.

Again, I hope everything is okay.

I am content to take this as is and say that splints' longer absence around Day 2 should not be viewed as alignment-indicative.

Spoiler: show

Ok I decided to start with the dead players ISO/polls first. Almost all of this has certainly already been discussed, but posting it anyways

falcon

suspicion of Sloonei

delta “probably” maf, jjj town in jjj or delta scenario

maybe suspicion of Lime Coke

Votes Sloonei
(Day ends with falcon 3 - gman, Sloonei, and delta. Sloonei with 2 - falcon, jjj. Delta, Epi, Long Con, and Roxy 1 each)

Night 1 - gman killed

gman

slight suspicion of delta but not enough to make his POE later in last post before his falcon vote

POE - falcon, both LC’s, Roxy, Sloonei

Dr Wilgy

I didn’t get a real clear idea of who he suspected or thought was town from his posts, as there was some joking as is his norm.

Day 1 - he voted Epi but I’m not clear why. Day 2 he didn’t vote.

Vote ended with a tie ( 3 Wilgy - Epi, Lime Coke, Delta. 3 Lime Coke - Roxy, JJJ, Sloonei. 1 Delta - Long Con)

Ok I’ve run out of time to do Long Con as it’s after midnight, but so far my analysis is I can see why Lime coke and delta are getting votes just based on this alone. Delta voted for town killed both days, and received some suspicion by both killed at night (very light suspicion from gman, and voted day 2 from long Con)

Lime Coke was tied yesterday, and on gmans POE so also not a great look.

I’d probably put Sloonei in my POE just based on this ^^^ falcon’s suspicion and falcon being eliminated day 1 when he had second most votes, gmans POE. However voted Lime Coke, not Wilgy so probably not team with LC.

JJJ looking good with both his votes, and seemed town read.

Need further evaluation on epi and Roxy.

JJJ

Epi/Roxy

Sloonei

lime coke/delta

I said before that I thought this was a decent bit of process from fingersplints. She had been away from the thread for quite a while, needed to find some footing, and she chose to use the perspectives of dead players as that platform. I can appreciate that methodology. One may accuse her of "deferring to the dead instead of her own views", but I don't think that would quite align with what's in this post. She collected data from all of them, drew conclusions, and aggregated that into some kinds of reads list. She didn't have to do that.

She also broke with consensus on at least one data point: Epignosis. She left room for him pending further investigation instead of dumping him in greenville, which probably would have been the easier move if she has no personal investment. This may be overly charitable on my part, so I welcome other people's viewpoints on this post. But I think it's a nice post.

I haven’t had any time yet today, so my thoughts are still where they were last night.

Benefit of a Lime Coke/Sloonei vote would be it would impact how I feel about the other as I still think unlikely they are together. But I’m ok with a delta vote as seems most likely as of right now.


[VOTE: Delta] aubergine

splints' view of strategy in this moment was likely better than what prevailed (Delta elimination).

viewtopic.php?p=1118043#p1118043

I said that JJJ was looking good with his votes.

But, if Sloonei is mafia and Lime Coke is town: jjj’s votes don’t look good anymore. He still voted Sloonei on day 1 but not unusual for mafia to vote a teammate on day 1 when not in real danger, then voted Lime Coke day 2 and I believe delta day 3.

Plus this to me really feels like trying to put subtle doubt on Sloonei being mafia:

I wonder about Sloonei not killing me after Day 1 if he's mafia. That'd be a choice. Perhaps the G-Man kill offered a different out without being so blatant.

I'm not sure this is the most likely direction for splints to take me today if she is mafia, because her play would have been to pocket me (she had me as a town read previously). This reversal would be playing with fire, and I am not sure splints is the type to do that. I acknowledge the WIFOM in this point, but we have to make a judgment.

fingersplints/JJJ
fingersplints/Lime Coke
fingersplints/Roxy
fingersplints/Sloonei
JJJ/Lime Coke
JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Lime Coke/Roxy
Lime Coke/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Going through all possibly pairings, I even included myself there for everyone to use, but I’m going to eliminate those for myself now as I know I’m town. I’ve also said I don’t think LC and Sloonei are together.

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Theoretically good process that would follow seamlessly from clearance of Lime Coke (based on rationale that I think is agreeable; he is difficult to pair with anyone). Indeed, if splints is town and her view of LC is accurate, then the mafia are Sloonei and Roxy. I will have to assess splints' own compatibilities to determine if that's my own working theory.

My overall take here is more positive than not. The one problematic moment for fingersplints is her lack of a Day 1 vote, and she ought to speak more about what happened there at EOD1. If I move beyond voting and just look at her content from a behavioral/social perspective in a vacuum, I think she looks okay. Let's resolve that first end of day.