[WOLF WIN] Leporidae Mafia

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: delta] aubergine

I did this before I realized that Long Con was already parked there. Whoops. I don't want to create the illusion of a strong wagon in a game of this size and volume.

But I have a silly idea in my head that I want to pursue.

Are you game to expand on operation silly idea?

I already did. G-man was mire likely to have been killed by a team that includes Delta or Lime Coke simply because they don’t have as much history with him.

@Sloonei what's your present take on Lime Coke apart from G-Man things?

I have not seen him say anything that screams “town” to me. I’ve seen too many posts where he laments his lack of involvement in the game, but not enough where he seems to be working to correct his own perceived problem.

I can tie the vote and randomize it between Wilgy and Lime Coke. Or I could just vote for Lime Coke.

Why are Lime Coke and Delta so sure of each other right now?

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

We're heading for a coin flip.

I'm leaving my vote where it is.

It's not impossible that this was a bus (in a hypothetical Sloonei/Lime Coke team). I've seen wilder things.

It's kind of hard to see regardless, because I don't get the impression that theoretically-mafia Sloonei cared what happened to Lime Coke. The theme is G-Man was killed by Delta and/or Lime, sure, kill Lime, whatever, I'll let it tie. Gun to my head, they're not both mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Sloonei you've suggested a lot of general unawareness of the events of late Day 1. Have you gone back to look at that stretch of the game apart from within ISO reviews? As in, have you gone back and read it in proper sequence with context? If so, what's your impression of what you had missed? If not, why?

I have not. I've got a clearer picture of it now that I've done these ISOs, but I haven't gone back to read the entire thing in sequence. Why not, you ask? I think my stance on ketchup is well documented.

I meant to respond to this. Indeed, you're well-documented for being anti-ketchup, and that's a stance that I support -- generally. However, this thread has nine posts in it. There's really no ketchup involved, and it'd seem necessary for you to read things in sequence to have a contextualized and fair interpretation of everyone involved. If this game had been ridiculously active, I may not make that demand. But it's very manageable here.

[fingersplints]

Reviewing Roxy

Spoiler: show

We live in a world where both of our current no-posters (Wilgy and Splints) are baddies and planning to low-post coast through Day 1 to establish psychological advantage.

Discuss.

I'm never voting splints here.

Strong pro-splints (or at least anti-vote-splints) stance in response to G-Man's thinking aloud. I believe this is the first in a series, or at least two to my memory, such comments about splints so that'll be something to follow.

What if I told you that there was a Canucks playoff game last night, and hockey > Maf?

I certainly believe you that hockey > Maf, though I’m not sure hockey prevents falcon from making falcon posts.

In your own words (and go easy here as it is Saturday and I'm not trying to use my brain today) please tell me what constitutes a falcon post?

This was a fair question, because I was vague in my wording. I appreciate Roxy holding me to some kind of standard here.

I don't think Wilgy is mafia.

Is this in the same way I feel about splints?

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

What made you actually throw a vote?

These kinds of questions are less impactful and don't move the needle much.

Would not vote:

Delta
JJJ
DrWilgy
fingersplints (D1 courtesy only)

Surprised yet happy to see splints on your list.

Another solid vouch for fingersplints, at this point I believe still before she had posted. This may be more policy than interpersonal (i.e., something driven by the unique relationships that exist between splints and Roxy). I'll ask about that after this review.

Ok I am caught up and tbh there really is not much here from anyone that says "hey I am bad".

I always struggle on D 1's and am astounded at those that can pick and nudge people and find stuff on D 1.

Am not sure who is bad nor who to trust just yet. It's way too early for that.

I know I probs would not vote for Wigly or splints but I probs won't vote GMan as it has been a-while since we have last played and I am hopeful for a GMan style game since he is around! (how's the kids?)

Delta is high posting.
Lime Coke feels absent.
LC feels like he is auditioning for a SNL episode.
falcon seems normal but I cannot trust my read on him any longer.
JJJ feels like and eager beaver aiming to please.
Epi seems like Epi and since I feel he is bad he is probs good.
Sloonei I cannot even remember the last time we played but I do know this feels like you are doing your best Vompatti impression.


this is where I am and honestly very unsure of where my vote will go.

I can't quite say that these reads are actually reads. This is uninspiring.

Roxy, I believe I'd asked you what you meant exactly by "eager beaver aiming to please" before, and I don't recall seeing an answer. It could be interpreted as a good thing or as a bad thing. I'd appreciate you doing so today.

@fingersplints, @Roxy --> y'all didn't vote. Why

I had planned on it but rl happened with my head and a concussion. Sometimes being a YaYa hurts. Had planned to vote Lime as they are not playing in the townie way I had gotten used to expecting.

Roxy also missed the Day 1 vote. I'm content to take this explanation and move on. I hope you're doing alright, Roxy.

I had planned on it but rl happened with my head and a concussion. Sometimes being a YaYa hurts. Had planned to vote Lime as they are not playing in the townie way I had gotten used to expecting.

I totally agree with the Gman take. He has been missed and I can say that NO - you would never have made this kill. Kinda like me with newbies and not voting them on D 1's.

I also agree that Delta going after falcon for saying he wanted to keep players that they haven't played with for awhile around.

I have also noted no mention was made of me for saying basically the same thing here:

Roxy immediately accepted Long Con's appeal regarding the G-Man kill. If there's anything to do with this, it'd be to assess if a mafia Roxy would anticipate that kind of reaction to a G-Man kill (which would be motivation not to do it). I don't think I am comfortable making that leap though.

[VOTE: No Vote] aubergine

I'll think things over. I may just give Day 1 a reread since it was so short.

I appreciate that, as I am trying to convey the actual true passion I am feeling about the situation, and I hope this means that it is being felt.

At the very least, I can believe that a mafia team with Long Con that kills G-Man does so against his protest or somehow without communication. And that means something.

Maybe but tbh if I was on a team that did a kill behind my back, the next day they are being bussed heavily.

It'd be funny if this somehow ended up being literal.

I will explain my falcon vote in more detail once I have food in my belly. Full sentences too much work.

Looking forward to it bc during my catch up I disliked your reasoning thinking it did not make sense. He called your response "boiler plate" level. Which cannot be good but I think he was trying to bring you more into the game and instead of town'ing up you voted him. Seemed a bit like "nananana boo-boo"

Here's some precedent for Sloonei suspicion leading to today's vote. The rationale is a bit reachy. I'm not sure falcon was "trying to bring Sloonei more into the game" as much as he was just stating a suspicion. I can agree that Sloonei's response was iffy though.

I get what you are saying but I disagree on the take. I feel the opposite is true. Bad falcon tends to be quieter and barely has reads he will stand by. Town falcon seems more involved in hunting than not and has no problem giving reads.

I'd have liked this response to Sloonei more if had come the previous day.

I agree with Long Con's assessment though. The mafia goofed and are unaware of the dynamic here.

I agree wholeheartedly on this.

These posts by Lime concern me. This progression and vibe are off.

Alright well guys I wanted to sit down and read the game but I have 0 motivation to do that and probably nobody on when I get on so...

*Touch*

Oh I'm being voted.

Rather unfortunate.

Also disappointing because I'm playing like this in a game with strong players.

Not a fan of Delta being voted I'd much rather me go and y'all just don't vote him ever but bleh.

Mmmm...

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Maybe we never actually rand town together after all.

Unclear what the "vibe" or "progression" refer to in this context or why they are off.

I’m feeling pretty wiped, so I am going to take it easy with Mafia today. I’ll still poke around periodically so if y’all want my take on something just say the word.

Otherwise I’ll be quiet for a bit.

This just feels awkward. But I get it and have felt this way before Idk if I have ever seen *you* make this sort of statement.

Fair observation. I don't typically make posts like that, so I don't fault Roxy for regarding it as awkward. Covid gonna covid

Uh---any of us? C'mon! While unlikely any of us would do it, it is a lie to say none of us would *ever* do it. LC with his emotional plea would be the only one I would allow ANY leeway for other than that it could be anyone in this game.

It may be implied by the "us", but here's a good opportunity to just ask the question. Roxy, would you be willing to kill G-Man on Night 1?

I do want to put stock into what Long Con's saying about people being likely/unlikely to kill G-Man, I do think at the very least he's likely town from it because I cant see a partner pushing that kill through when he feels this strongly about it

I dont really think it's Brad though and given the main focus for people likely to kill him are those with less experience with him, I'm kinda at a loss because I'm town & I think he is as well

So it's a weird situation of 'where do I do from there'

What is happening Delta?
Why don't you think Lime aka brad is bad?
Why are you at a loss?
In every game I have played with I can't say I have ever seen you at a "loss" of any kind - def never a loss for words.
I would like to know your thought process for this vote - do you have a POE? Rainbow list? Or something else?

Can't blame Roxy for asking these questions when I found myself wondering many of the same things. Bless Delta, for he was innocent, but he seemed well out of character in the moment.

I do want to put stock into what Long Con's saying about people being likely/unlikely to kill G-Man, I do think at the very least he's likely town from it because I cant see a partner pushing that kill through when he feels this strongly about it

I dont really think it's Brad though and given the main focus for people likely to kill him are those with less experience with him, I'm kinda at a loss because I'm town & I think he is as well

So it's a weird situation of 'where do I do from there'

Is there anyone you're seeing as wolfy or at the least not a townread? The best we can do is just try to form a wagon ourselves and see where it goes from there.

What makes you townread Delta? Is it bc they townread you? You are going to form your own wagon? Why not try to find other townies so we can actually find a baddie for elim? Maybe if we work together instead of new against old we would get somewhere.

That last sentence is legitimately a great sentiment. I'm not entirely sure that Roxy has lived that statement in this game, but the concept is excellent. That tension between the strategic appeal and the actual play is a bit concerning.

easy peasy catch up


@fingersplints
splints wtf are you? iyatgyaihswcet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you flying under my radar here? My paranoia know no bounds!

Dramatic. I don't know what warranted paranoia about splints in this moment. People are absent sometimes.

@Delta your post here in response to Gman is what made me get bad vibes from you since D 1.

You say here that LC was stoking the fire betwixt falcon and sloonei to not get his hands dirty but reading back *YOU* were also doing much of the same ---Trying not to get your hands dirty-----

then you plop that vote down on LC.

when you did the same thing. your tone reads as though you are not really gunning or looking for your own baddies but instead disagree or agree with others about their reads.

Make a list of your poe or rainbow peoples. Thanks in advance.

While the Delta read has since gone sour, I think I like the severity of this post. Particularly the motion from "you're just agreeing/disagreeing with others" to "make your own reads list" is a decent glimpse into a solving brain.

1. Delta felt super solvey with what little the game had to offer early. Has continued and things like the Long Con read feels like good faith solving.
Annnnd maybe relate to him because we're on the bottom of the barrel this game and need to fight upwards.


2. I...actually don't know.
I actually feel like if this was like a bigger game like 15+ I'd just throw you into towns but it's lower so maybe that's why I'm being less generous?

ok thanks for the response?

Can you answer the questions?
What are different about my posts vs JJJ or LC?
What makes my posts "wolfy"?

You only explained that Delta felt "super solvey" and you like they continued with their Long Con read in good faith. (I disagree here but we are talking about YOUR reads).

This moment is a decent reflection of the "work together instead of new against old" that Roxy mentioned previously, so at least there's more than zero evidence of that in progress. "Working together" is a stretch, but it's amicable and leaves room for some kind of productive dialogue.

vote lime

It's now or never for me as I must be in YaYa mode henceforth

I voted Lime bc that is where my hed is today. I know some think he is hunting but I've seen nothing of it. I mean I asked them to expand on why I'm bad bc of my wall posts and it turns out bc mine were the only ones they read so they couldn't give an opinion on JJJ or LC.
It stuck in my craw and now I must vote them.

We must also note that it didn't hold up. Whether this is a "problem" is wholly dependent upon Lime Coke's alignment, so perhaps I'll build on that once I get to his review.

Show of hands. Is the following statement valid to you, yes or no?

If fingersplints was mafia, she would be more attentive to the game and also have a teammate pushing her into the thread to post and/or vote.

This is absolutely true

Werd, cool, I dig. Roxy's overall reception of splints has been quite positive save that moment of paranoia, so Roxy should talk about whatever that was.

C'mon that eod with Lime and Delta both voting Wigly felt like it was a scramble to save Lime from elim.

This kind of thing doesn't thrill me. So and so was saving so and so. Meh.

voted delta

Almost forgot to vote, no one is listening to me about Lime so I followed Epi the only other one I trust

Okay. Maybe a bit lame to credit the miss-vote to Epignosis instead of taking responsibility.

There are some decent moments in here, though the holistic view is more ambiguous. It isn't always easy to follow where Roxy's head is at, and some of her content seems to be deceptively shallow. I wouldn't clear her on the basis of this review. Given that it's ambiguous, I'd love to hear from others (beyond just Sloonei, who has already reviewed Roxy himself).

In particular, @fingersplints, Roxy has given you unique treatment in this game (a higher level of trust). Would you say this is typical of her? How do you feel about Roxy in general, independent of POEs or associations?

It is pretty typical of her. She’s probably the best at reading me.
I think her tone has been ok this game. Didn’t find anything very suspicious when reading her. Wish she’d discussed a bit more before voting, but I also don’t know her schedule today so maybe she’s busy who knows

[fingersplints]

fingersplints/JJJ
fingersplints/Lime Coke
fingersplints/Roxy
fingersplints/Sloonei
JJJ/Lime Coke
JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Lime Coke/Roxy
Lime Coke/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Going through all possibly pairings, I even included myself there for everyone to use, but I’m going to eliminate those for myself now as I know I’m town. I’ve also said I don’t think LC and Sloonei are together.

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Roxy voting Sloonei means Roxy/Sloonei isn’t a viable option, therefore IMO the only possibilities could be JJJ/Roxy, and JJJ/Sloonei. So I think JJJ is pretty confirmed mafia as far as I can deduce and I still feel Sloonei > Rox as mafia. Guess we’ll see how the rest of the day goes. Need to see more where Lime Coke is at

[Sloonei]

And from my perspective it is either Jay/Roxy or Roxy/fingersplints. I’m about 99% sure my vote ends up on Roxy today.

[Sloonei]

Everyone has now popped in since Roxy’s vote for me. The mafia team can force the hammer at 3 votes. If Roxy is town and I am town, this means the game should be over. Whether the team is Jay/splints, Jay/Lime Coke, or splints/Lime Coke, both mafia members should have hammered on me right now.

That has not happened. Therefore Roxy is mafia. I am the only player who has the luxury of this perspective. For the remaining two town, it remains possible that I am mafia and Roxy is town. In that case the game has not ended because the mafia team needs somebody else to receive a vote.

All of this is to say the vote might as well be restricted to just myself or Roxy today. One of us is mechanically confirmed to be mafia. I am going to [VOTE: Roxy] aubergine. I can only guarantee I will be around the thread for another hour or so if anybody has questions for me. If you’re unsure which of myself or Rosy is the better suspect: try to identify our potential partner.

@Syn I’m locked out of the poll because of the View Results button, but this is my official vote.

[Sloonei]

And if you want a more conventional argument against Roxy, I can call into question her vote for me. Why is Roxy voting for me instead of Lime Coke?

She has made several references to Lime Coke being her top suspect:

Spoiler: show

vote sloonei

Idk just feels like no one will ever listen to me on my Lime theory so this is where I landed. PI'll locked me out when I checked it so I hope @Syn finds this acceptable

voted delta

Almost forgot to vote, no one is listening to me about Lime so I followed Epi the only other one I trust

Well LC connection was actually both town but neither of us got anything done.


Annnnnnd of course I can't catch a wolf to save my life so yeah.


I probably should've just taken the death and moved on because I can't do anything positive in these games.

JUst excuses here again - this is a new day plz give the effort Deltas says you have been but I have yet to see it.

I did see during my catch up you trying but you only keep repeating the same stuff from the previous day except you have added Epi to your non town reads.

My instinct is to maybe vote between Sloonei or Roxy.

More likely Sloonei because scumreading Roxy doesn't feel right at all.

I have asked far too many times about your read on me I am giving up as of this post bc you have yet to do so. Now it doesn't feel right?
could it be bc you know I am town and you are not?

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

while I have felt town for the both of you this vote and your reasons for it feel genuine.

[VOTE: delta] aubergine

To spite Epi.

C'mon that eod with Lime and Delta both voting Wigly felt like it was a scramble to save Lime from elim.

Meanwhile, she has deferred her Lime Coke vote two days in a row because “no one is listening” to her Lime Coke suspicion. That was an odd thing to say yesterday because Lime Coke has been a prominent suspect since Day 2. It is an even more odd thing to say when she cast her vote early in a LyLo phase where everybody is closely examining everybody else (in theory). There was plenty of time for people to come around to the idea of a Lime Coke vote. If he is mafia, and Town Roxy truly believes he is mafia, she can force people to listen to her simply by putting her vote on him.

So why me instead? Maybe she just believes that I an the easier target. I’ve faced less scrutiny, and Delta’s flip probably makes it more difficult to push Lime Coke.

[Sloonei]

Ranking the likelihood of each player being partnered with Roxy:

Jay
Lime Coke
Fingersplints

I am not super confident in these rankings.

[fingersplints]

Ranking the likelihood of each player being partnered with Roxy:

Jay
Lime Coke
Fingersplints

I am not super confident in these rankings.

If you think Roxy is more likely paired with Lime Coke than me, how come you don’t have a Lime Coke/Roxy pairing here and instead have eliminated it?

And from my perspective it is either Jay/Roxy or Roxy/fingersplints. I’m about 99% sure my vote ends up on Roxy today.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong and I could be misremembering, but I don’t remember you talking much about the possibility of a me/jjj pairing so how come that one was also eliminated and narrowed down to those two?

[fingersplints]

I almost hit the “view results” despite almost everyone mentioning in the thread they had done that and were now unable to vote in the poll

[Sloonei]

Ranking the likelihood of each player being partnered with Roxy:

Jay
Lime Coke
Fingersplints

I am not super confident in these rankings.

If you think Roxy is more likely paired with Lime Coke than me, how come you don’t have a Lime Coke/Roxy pairing here and instead have eliminated it?

And from my perspective it is either Jay/Roxy or Roxy/fingersplints. I’m about 99% sure my vote ends up on Roxy today.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong and I could be misremembering, but I don’t remember you talking much about the possibility of a me/jjj pairing so how come that one was also eliminated and narrowed down to those two?

It could still be Lime Coke. I do not think it’s likely. He and Roxy do not look paired. My most recent rankings list was on gut feel about each of you at this exact moment. But there is no quantifiable reason why it can’t be Lime Coke. I neglected to include a Roxy/Lime Coke pairing earlier because they feel less paired than you or Roxy. But on content alone, you feel more town than he does. I hope that makes sense. My reads are fluid here.

Also you and Jay can’t both be mafia, mechanically speaking. That is the premise of my certainty about Roxy. It takes three votes to hammer today, with votes being immediately locked. If Roxy is town, then her vote for me (also town) means that the two mafia members simply need to place their votes on me and the game ends. They don’t even need to hide it. The game is mechanically over right now if both Roxy and I are town.

But the game has continued after Roxy’s vote. Therefore EVERYONE should know that either I or Roxy are mafia. I know that it is not me. The remaining two townies (probably you and Lime Coke) need to solve it on their own terms.

[Sloonei]

I believe this is our current poll:

Roxy: [1] (Sloonei)
Sloonei: [1] (Roxy)
Not voting: [3] (fingersplints, JaggedJimmyJay, Lime Coke)

[Syn]

EOD is in 2 hours.

[Lime Coke]

Ehhhh I have no time or confidence in this.

[Sloonei]

Ehhhh I have no time or confidence in this.

If it makes it easier, your choice is 50/50 between myself and Roxy. With a hypothetical gum to your head, which of would you vote for?

That scenario is less stressful to imagine, right?

[fingersplints]

I was hoping to be dead today. I have a trip coming and need to prepare.

I may vote reasonably early anyway. I think towns often make the mistake of waiting too long with locked votes and it prevents them from being able to operate with the information that the lock provides.

What happened to voting early?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was hoping to be dead today. I have a trip coming and need to prepare.

I may vote reasonably early anyway. I think towns often make the mistake of waiting too long with locked votes and it prevents them from being able to operate with the information that the lock provides.

What happened to voting early?

It was no longer necessary for me to initiate things earlier once Roxy voted and initiated the cross with Sloonei.

I'm mulling things over while I deal with outside work. I will be around soon.

[Sloonei]

I was hoping to be dead today. I have a trip coming and need to prepare.

I may vote reasonably early anyway. I think towns often make the mistake of waiting too long with locked votes and it prevents them from being able to operate with the information that the lock provides.

What happened to voting early?

It was no longer necessary for me to initiate things earlier once Roxy voted and initiated the cross with Sloonei.

I'm mulling things over while I deal with outside work. I will be around soon.

Me or Roxy?

[Sloonei]

[Lime Coke]

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

@Syn

Fuck it I guess.

Please be right.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think the most likely team is either Roxy/Sloonei or Roxy/fingersplints. Hard for me to formulate a team without her in it. If it's Sloonei/splints the game is over anyway.

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

If there's still a game after today, please kill me. I'm going on a very long flight tomorrow and will not be able to do anything in here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Syn

Good luck and godspeed folks

[Syn]

Thread locked.

[Syn]

Day 4 comes to a close...

The mood in the meadow was dour. No rabbit knew what to do. It seemed, in the final hour, that they would die out with a whimper and not a bang.

A bang?

One rabbit's ears perked. A bang...

"What if we used a gun?"

The few remaining rabbits glanced at one another.

"We don't have opposable thumbs."

"With our powers combined, we can make anything happen."

"What?"

"Just hold this gun I found in the trash. I'll show you."

As the sun descended and the hawk followed close behind, the gaggle of rabbits joined together and managed to not only aim the pistol into the sky, but they also pulled the trigger. Of course, it went nowhere near the hawk, but it was enough to scare it off. It also dropped local property values.

In the hubbub of the celebration, they didn't notice Roxy slip away in the night.

Roxy has been eliminated. They were the Flemish Giant, and they were also a wolf.

Night 4 will last 24 hours until 2:00 PM PST on Tuesday, May 28, 2024. The wolves have 23 hours to get their night kill to me.

Spoiler: show

@fingersplints
@JaggedJimmyJay
@Lime Coke
@Roxy
@Sloonei

[Syn]

Day 5 approaches...

Despite the prior day's victory over the hawk, the mood between the rabbits continued to sour. Somehow, during the night, Sloonei had been taken from their burrow. There were so few of them left now.

If yesterday had proven stressful and like everything was on the line, it was doubly true today.

The rabbits slowly snuffled their ways out into the meadow for possibly the last time.

Everything would be decided now.

Sloonei has been killed. They were the Scrub Hare, and they were also a villager.

D5 will last for 48 hours until 2:00 PM PST on Thursday, May 30, 2024.

Spoiler: show

@fingersplints
@JaggedJimmyJay
@Lime Coke
@Sloonei

[Syn]

THIS IS LYLO. VOTES ARE LOCKED. DECLARE YOUR VOTE IN THREAD.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Fine.

I’m literally about to board a plane to New Zealand, so I cannot post for a long while. But give me time. I have a lot to say about both of you and a lot of time to think for myself.

[Lime Coke]

About to prove why you fuckers night kill me instead of leaving me alive forever.

[Lime Coke]

About to prove why you fuckers night kill me instead of leaving me alive forever.

And I'll do it when the time is RIGHT!

[fingersplints]

Have a lot to think about this game. Pretty busy. Will check in when I can.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Still can’t quite post what I want to post until this New Zealand evening, but I would like to share the sign I just walked past.

[Lime Coke]

Still can’t quite post what I want to post until this New Zealand evening, but I would like to share the sign I just walked past.

LyLo trademarked? Damn we're all screwed.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Alright, I'm finally in my hotel and able to sit at my laptop for this. I am going to do some reviews, and I will try to be quick about it. Frankly, I didn't come all the way here to play forum Mafia. But I will do my best within reason, and when you have questions for me you'll need to voice them. I won't be constantly poking in, but I will be vaguely available by mobile after tonight's work.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will acknowledge that I begin with a bias: I left the previous day thinking splints/Roxy makes more sense than Lime/Roxy. I will still be looking deeper into both pairings to verify for quality assurance.

What this bias means is that, for splints, if you are town it is extremely important that you listen to what I have to say with an open mind and engage me in good faith to help me find you. I will do the same with you. The same goes for town Lime, but I don't have to overcome quite the same hurdle in that world.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Associations of Lime Coke and Roxy


From Lime Coke

Spoiler: show

I agree with Long Con's assessment though. The mafia goofed and are unaware of the dynamic here.

I agree wholeheartedly on this.

These posts by Lime concern me. This progression and vibe are off.

They're off because I am off as well.

This has been a common refrain throughout the game for Lime Coke (lamenting that he cannot quite find the juice, so to speak). It should be noted then that it doesn't seem to matter who he is talking to when this kind of post comes up -- he said things like this to Sloonei, to me, and here to Roxy. If the alignment of his converser is not relevant, then that suggests at least that this is not evidence of their being teammates.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Finally got through.

Meh.

Between either him or Roxy.

This is- I'm down by 3 TDs and I'm saying "fuck it, DJ Moore gotta be down there somewhere" on offense - levels of confidence.

I don't feel much like voting anyone else though.

Roxy flew well under the radar for much of the game. She always seems to do that, so credit for her honing that particular skill. It's valuable then that Lime spoke against her earlier than most others (perhaps earlier than anyone?). I must also note though that the vote went to Wilgy instead, so I caution the credit.

The thing for Roxy BTW is more... like I see her catch up posts and wall posts... on paper this might actually be towny but there's a chance to give it too much credit while she's a wolf.
Granted I don't think her reason to scumread me is shitty either, because she just saw me in last game and saw what I do.
But I've also ran into this trap and I'm possibly giving too much credit there as well for having a wrong read and a mafia is taking advantage of my lackadaisical play.

I'm heavily conflicted there.

This post is a bit of a rollercoaster. It might be the worst moment for Lime from the standpoint of appearing to be compatible with Roxy. He can theoretically take this material any direction that he wants.

So my wall posts are from a wolf but not say JJJ's or Delta's or LC's? Like what? What about mine are are wolfy?

1. Delta felt super solvey with what little the game had to offer early. Has continued and things like the Long Con read feels like good faith solving.
Annnnd maybe relate to him because we're on the bottom of the barrel this game and need to fight upwards.


2. I...actually don't know.
I actually feel like if this was like a bigger game like 15+ I'd just throw you into towns but it's lower so maybe that's why I'm being less generous?

Roxy's little "why me and not those guys?" defense makes this exchange look dissociated on its own. That may be as powerful as the previous argument to the contrary had been. There's a certain indignance and caught for the wrong reasons attitude apparent there. Lime's response may reinforce this, because he didn't respond to incredulity with more incredulity. He said he didn't know. Distancing from one's teammate rarely looks this feeble.

ok thanks for the response?

Can you answer the questions?
What are different about my posts vs JJJ or LC?
What makes my posts "wolfy"?

You only explained that Delta felt "super solvey" and you like they continued with their Long Con read in good faith. (I disagree here but we are talking about YOUR reads).

I couldn't respond to the part about JJJ or LC's posts because I didn't fully read those wall posts and I prolly won't now because I lack sleep and motivation.
I could only respond about "why your wall posts are scummy" portion and yeah...like they're really not scummy I'm sorta just getting useless paranoia/grasping at straws as I can't find anything good to push on.

This follow-up exchange is softer both ways and probably shouldn't move the needle at this point.

Ah Roxy voted me...

A little dramatic.

My instinct is to maybe vote between Sloonei or Roxy.

More likely Sloonei because scumreading Roxy doesn't feel right at all.

Ironic that this foretold the final five cross-vote.

It's another decent sign that Lime had provided himself this background to justify voting Sloonei during final five (something that he reinforced later when final five opened), but he still voted Roxy in the end.

My instinct is to maybe vote between Sloonei or Roxy.

More likely Sloonei because scumreading Roxy doesn't feel right at all.

Why is Roxy a candidate at all then?

I had a random gut read there that also gets blocked from voting there at the same time.

Do you care to articulate either side of this read?

I wish I could.

It was like a matter of me looking at her catch up posts the other night and being like "Okay it isn't bad but also she ends up voting me in the end so maybe I'm giving too much credit for the catch up attempts and she could be taking advantage of me being a wagon?"

And the scumread has sorta lingered but hasn't really strengthened so now it's just in a non-confident state.

This is essentially a re-stating of Lime's previous waffle. To be fair, Sloonei asked for it.

Okay I'd be open to voting Roxy out of annoyance. Fuck it.

.....

I have generally found this to be a moment of authentic antagonism between Roxy and Lime, and that would suggest they don't fit together. Under limlo conditions I will acknowledge that the wifom runs deep and retract that some. At the very least, there are already better things in this review to work with than that.

Okay well.

My vote is on either JJJ or Sloonie.

Main reason being that these two should know 1. How to find someone that is obvious town like how Delta was and 2. That the POE might be massively fucked and something MIGHT need to change about it.

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

@Syn

Fuck it I guess.

Please be right.

This combination of posts is important for Lime. He opened final five with an anti-wallpost-nerds stance, and I think he had the ammunition to stick with that if he wanted to. I had voiced numerous concerns about Sloonei, and fingersplints had included Sloonei on numerous prospective mafia teams. Mafia Lime only needs one of us to vote for Sloonei to win.

It's still possible that he believed Roxy was in a precarious enough position that he just had to bus to play it "safe" (whether it'd actually be safe is a different question from whether it'd be perceived as safe). That could be exacerbated by Roxy's near silent final five performance and her out-of-nowhere Sloonei vote.

I'm forced to make a judgment regardless. Gun-to-head, mafia Lime either votes Sloonei or holds off on voting a bit longer. So this is a net positive.

~~~

From Roxy (not already addressed)

Spoiler: show

They're off because I am off as well.

Wish you could buy happiness I'd get you a bowlful <3
feel better soon!

This may be a dumb read on my part, but I think Roxy misinterpreted Lime here? In a way that's less likely if they're associated? She seemed to take Lime's admission to being "off" as something more personal and external instead of just feeling off as a player and a solver. This probably shouldn't matter, but it came to mind, so there you go.

I do want to put stock into what Long Con's saying about people being likely/unlikely to kill G-Man, I do think at the very least he's likely town from it because I cant see a partner pushing that kill through when he feels this strongly about it

I dont really think it's Brad though and given the main focus for people likely to kill him are those with less experience with him, I'm kinda at a loss because I'm town & I think he is as well

So it's a weird situation of 'where do I do from there'

Is there anyone you're seeing as wolfy or at the least not a townread? The best we can do is just try to form a wagon ourselves and see where it goes from there.

What makes you townread Delta? Is it bc they townread you? You are going to form your own wagon? Why not try to find other townies so we can actually find a baddie for elim? Maybe if we work together instead of new against old we would get somewhere.

Oh yeah, this appeal. This "olive branch" about connecting the old and new doesn't look like Roxy faking with a teammate to me. That looks like Roxy trying to assuage the concerns of her own miss-vote choice. I feel reasonably decent about that point.

Spoiler: show

vote lime

It's now or never for me as I must be in YaYa mode henceforth

I voted Lime bc that is where my hed is today. I know some think he is hunting but I've seen nothing of it. I mean I asked them to expand on why I'm bad bc of my wall posts and it turns out bc mine were the only ones they read so they couldn't give an opinion on JJJ or LC.
It stuck in my craw and now I must vote them.

Well LC connection was actually both town but neither of us got anything done.


Annnnnnd of course I can't catch a wolf to save my life so yeah.


I probably should've just taken the death and moved on because I can't do anything positive in these games.

JUst excuses here again - this is a new day plz give the effort Deltas says you have been but I have yet to see it.

I did see during my catch up you trying but you only keep repeating the same stuff from the previous day except you have added Epi to your non town reads.

My instinct is to maybe vote between Sloonei or Roxy.

More likely Sloonei because scumreading Roxy doesn't feel right at all.

I have asked far too many times about your read on me I am giving up as of this post bc you have yet to do so. Now it doesn't feel right?
could it be bc you know I am town and you are not?

voted delta

Almost forgot to vote, no one is listening to me about Lime so I followed Epi the only other one I trust

vote sloonei

Idk just feels like no one will ever listen to me on my Lime theory so this is where I landed. PI'll locked me out when I checked it so I hope @Syn finds this acceptable

I'm bringing all these together, because they establish a theme. Over the last couple days of Roxy's lifespan, she did little other than tunnel Lime Coke and lament when others "weren't listening" (despite Lime being fielded as a consistent suspect and actually tied for elimination one day). Clearly this was all phony on Roxy's part (which is not insightful, she was mafia). That phoniness comes with a flavor of blame though. Roxy has turned Lime into a piñata and isn't letting it go (even while placing a dramatic vote for Sloonei instead). There are two obvious interpretations:

1) Roxy has selected Lime as her miss-vote of choice and otherwise as the focal point of her fake hunting to stay afloat.
2) Roxy has TMI that Lime is mafia and is trying to high-road his continued existence despite silly town's refusal to let her bus.

I would favor #1 on the basis of personality. Many players would definitely be #2 types, but I don't get the impression that Roxy has ever been that type. She is not that confrontational, especially not with someone she shares BTSC with.

~~~

Conclusion

I have had to make some judgment calls here, so I am ever open to hearing the other side of the story. You'll need to talk with me about that, @fingersplints.

Nonetheless, on balance, this is a positive outcome for Lime Coke. There are a few small moments that raise questions, but the overwhelming spirit of this review is one that I don't think looks like a Roxy teammate. And that case is stronger now than it was before when it was predominantly an emotion-driven read about mutual antagonism.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

fingersplints/Roxy next. I need a quick nap first, I am travel exhausted

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If my time zones and math are correct, we have 18 hours from this point (much of which will be lost to sleep and, in my case, travel). Let’s be mindful of that please.

[Lime Coke]

Mmmm....

Jay is there a chance you off'd G-Man because he was onto you Day 1?

Sounded like he had reserves on you but wasn't trying it for Day 1 for reasons.

[Lime Coke]

Like FS could fall into the category of would kill G-Man...or let Roxy just kill G-Man...because "whatever" but yeah.

[Lime Coke]

@fingersplints, @Roxy --> y'all didn't vote. Why

Although this is pretty funny if this is the team and they both can get caught via not voting.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mmmm....

Jay is there a chance you off'd G-Man because he was onto you Day 1?

Sounded like he had reserves on you but wasn't trying it for Day 1 for reasons.

If we operate hypothetically, and a game happened where I was mafia and G-Man was really on my ass on Day 1 after having been gone a while -- sure there's a chance I'd endorse killing him. I talked about this, essentially, with Epignosis and Sloonei. I won't claim a "hard no", as though I'd never ever kill G-Man, because I don't tend to close strategic doors like that in the interest of game integrity. However, I'd need a really good reason to do it.

I never actually had the impression that G-Man suspected me in this game. He may have stopped short of calling me the towniest man alive, because he is cautious, but his feedback about me was positive feedback. He framed anything else as generic paranoia or things that "always" bug him despite being a part of my personality. Anyway, I would not have a "really good" reason in this outing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This hotel wi-fi is crapping out, so I'd better get to fingersplints/Roxy before I can't load the site at all

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Associations of fingersplints and Roxy

From fingersplints

Spoiler: show

Ok I decided to start with the dead players ISO/polls first. Almost all of this has certainly already been discussed, but posting it anyways

falcon

suspicion of Sloonei

delta “probably” maf, jjj town in jjj or delta scenario

maybe suspicion of Lime Coke

Votes Sloonei
(Day ends with falcon 3 - gman, Sloonei, and delta. Sloonei with 2 - falcon, jjj. Delta, Epi, Long Con, and Roxy 1 each)

Night 1 - gman killed

gman

slight suspicion of delta but not enough to make his POE later in last post before his falcon vote

POE - falcon, both LC’s, Roxy, Sloonei

Dr Wilgy

I didn’t get a real clear idea of who he suspected or thought was town from his posts, as there was some joking as is his norm.

Day 1 - he voted Epi but I’m not clear why. Day 2 he didn’t vote.

Vote ended with a tie ( 3 Wilgy - Epi, Lime Coke, Delta. 3 Lime Coke - Roxy, JJJ, Sloonei. 1 Delta - Long Con)

Ok I’ve run out of time to do Long Con as it’s after midnight, but so far my analysis is I can see why Lime coke and delta are getting votes just based on this alone. Delta voted for town killed both days, and received some suspicion by both killed at night (very light suspicion from gman, and voted day 2 from long Con)

Lime Coke was tied yesterday, and on gmans POE so also not a great look.

I’d probably put Sloonei in my POE just based on this ^^^ falcon’s suspicion and falcon being eliminated day 1 when he had second most votes, gmans POE. However voted Lime Coke, not Wilgy so probably not team with LC.

JJJ looking good with both his votes, and seemed town read.

Need further evaluation on epi and Roxy.

JJJ

Epi/Roxy

Sloonei

lime coke/delta

This was her first mention of Roxy on Day 3. Roxy and Epi are both only mentioned by their vote histories without a conclusive read, so there's not much to be done with this yet.

fingersplints/JJJ
fingersplints/Lime Coke
fingersplints/Roxy
fingersplints/Sloonei
JJJ/Lime Coke
JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Lime Coke/Roxy
Lime Coke/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

Going through all possibly pairings, I even included myself there for everyone to use, but I’m going to eliminate those for myself now as I know I’m town. I’ve also said I don’t think LC and Sloonei are together.

Roxy and JJJ (along with Sloonei) voted for Lime Coke day 2 tying for most votes, since that could have led to elimination I say I will eliminate all those pairings as well. This has pretty much cleared Lime Coke for me and leaving me with these three options to think about.

JJJ/Roxy
JJJ/Sloonei
Roxy/Sloonei

The next mention is here on Day 4 (final five), when splints theorized various teams equally implicating Sloonei, Roxy, and I. Her process for arriving at these combinations was essentially mechanical -- it's what was left after she elected to remove Lime Coke from consideration. It's still valuable that she was willing to execute that process at least to this degree.

Been doing reading, and from Roxy, I can’t say that there is anything I found there that says she COULDN’T be paired with either JJJ or Sloonei, I didn’t find anything making it LIKELY either. I didn’t find anything too suspicious in her posts at all

This is important, as it establishes a final five platform in which Sloonei and I are both more overtly suspicious to her than Roxy is (and thus we become her odds-on votes by my interpretation).

Do you think I'm bad? I really thought you would come in here and be like Rox is civ.
I do like that you looked at posts made this analysis but to group me like I'm a baddie, ok I guess.

If you were voting now where do you vote?

This is what I had left just after vote analysis. I read your posts after and said I didn’t find anything too suspicious at all. I’d say you are more likely to be town at this point, leaving sloonei and jjj left.

If I was voting right now I’d vote Sloonei

This exchange is difficult to parse. I could see it being Roxy attempting to assuage fingersplints' half-concerns or serve as an emotional appeal, which would be good for splints. I could also see it as a half-hearted distancing effort that does not rake too hard and leaves room for Roxy to vote anyone else. I am not willing to offer such a significantly wifom clearance at this point in the game.

voted delta

Almost forgot to vote, no one is listening to me about Lime so I followed Epi the only other one I trust

I read this as town Rox. Slightly annoyed you feel no one is listening to you, which I don’t feel you’d want to say if you were mafia

splints bolstered the appeal to emotion character of Roxy's play. Given their history playing together, this is the kind of read where I think we'd most rely on splints as a judge of Roxy (to understand her personality when assessing things like appeal to emotion), so this troubles me some. Being wrong is not a crime, but this is a damaging sort of wrong.

@Roxy if you had to vote right now who would you vote?

Standard prod, doesn't move the needle either way.

It is pretty typical of her. She’s probably the best at reading me.
I think her tone has been ok this game. Didn’t find anything very suspicious when reading her. Wish she’d discussed a bit more before voting, but I also don’t know her schedule today so maybe she’s busy who knows

This was a response by splints to my question for her about Roxy's relationship with her in the game. It essentially reiterates the previous viewpoint and reinforces the strength of their historical connection (granted, without claiming that splints reads Roxy as well as Roxy reads splints).

Roxy voting Sloonei means Roxy/Sloonei isn’t a viable option, therefore IMO the only possibilities could be JJJ/Roxy, and JJJ/Sloonei. So I think JJJ is pretty confirmed mafia as far as I can deduce and I still feel Sloonei > Rox as mafia. Guess we’ll see how the rest of the day goes. Need to see more where Lime Coke is at

This one stuck in my craw a little bit. splints immediately discarded the possibility of a Sloonei/Roxy final five bus out of hand. I responded to it quite oppositely, in that I was thinking aloud about the possibility that Roxy's abrupt Sloonei vote was a coordinated move. Perhaps I was guilty of being a big Parapoia Peter, but that's kind of the name of the town game at limlo. This move allowed fingersplints to shift her attention squarely to me and Sloonei, and I question the authenticity of that.

Ranking the likelihood of each player being partnered with Roxy:

Jay
Lime Coke
Fingersplints

I am not super confident in these rankings.

If you think Roxy is more likely paired with Lime Coke than me, how come you don’t have a Lime Coke/Roxy pairing here and instead have eliminated it?

And from my perspective it is either Jay/Roxy or Roxy/fingersplints. I’m about 99% sure my vote ends up on Roxy today.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong and I could be misremembering, but I don’t remember you talking much about the possibility of a me/jjj pairing so how come that one was also eliminated and narrowed down to those two?

This is likely more about Sloonei than about Roxy, but I find it uncharitable.

~~~

There's a separate, but related, matter with fingersplints in final five that I also want to talk about. She sat on her vote the longest, which is her right. However, given the circumstances, we have to remember that the mafia needed one town to vote for one other town, and the game was over immediately (as long as their vote was still open for the town hammer).

I had personally voiced numerous suspicions of Sloonei. I was strongly considering a Sloonei vote all day long, and I think splints knew that. If I had done so, the game would have ended with the mafia joining me on that Sloonei vote (alongside Roxy). splints literally egged me on about placing my vote too:

I was hoping to be dead today. I have a trip coming and need to prepare.

I may vote reasonably early anyway. I think towns often make the mistake of waiting too long with locked votes and it prevents them from being able to operate with the information that the lock provides.

What happened to voting early?

In the end, Lime's own vote for Roxy helped to tip my own scales. It helped me to eliminate the Sloonei/splints team (not from being possible, but from being relevant -- the game would have been over), and that left me only with 1) any Roxy team, or 2) Lime being mafia. I took that leap of faith into voting based on option #1, and Roxy flipped mafia. I would owe town Lime for that (and I would both commend and question mafia Lime for making that bold bus decision).

from Roxy (not already addressed)

Spoiler: show

We live in a world where both of our current no-posters (Wilgy and Splints) are baddies and planning to low-post coast through Day 1 to establish psychological advantage.

Discuss.

I'm never voting splints here.

Would not vote:

Delta
JJJ
DrWilgy
fingersplints (D1 courtesy only)

Surprised yet happy to see splints on your list.

Ok I am caught up and tbh there really is not much here from anyone that says "hey I am bad".

I always struggle on D 1's and am astounded at those that can pick and nudge people and find stuff on D 1.

Am not sure who is bad nor who to trust just yet. It's way too early for that.

I know I probs would not vote for Wigly or splints but I probs won't vote GMan as it has been a-while since we have last played and I am hopeful for a GMan style game since he is around! (how's the kids?)

Delta is high posting.
Lime Coke feels absent.
LC feels like he is auditioning for a SNL episode.
falcon seems normal but I cannot trust my read on him any longer.
JJJ feels like and eager beaver aiming to please.
Epi seems like Epi and since I feel he is bad he is probs good.
Sloonei I cannot even remember the last time we played but I do know this feels like you are doing your best Vompatti impression.


this is where I am and honestly very unsure of where my vote will go.

easy peasy catch up


@fingersplints
splints wtf are you? iyatgyaihswcet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you flying under my radar here? My paranoia know no bounds!

Show of hands. Is the following statement valid to you, yes or no?

If fingersplints was mafia, she would be more attentive to the game and also have a teammate pushing her into the thread to post and/or vote.

This is absolutely true

We can revisit this theme now, where Roxy repeatedly and vocally stood in splints' corner. With some players I might call this pocketing, but there's a uniquely Roxy reason why I don't do the same here. She is a premier example of an old-school Syndicate mindset in which BTSC is a sacred bond. I believe that Roxy would be this protective of someone she shares BTSC with, especially if that person is an old friend like fingersplints. So at the very least I am not offering town credit for this, and I would consider calling it an actual problem. This treatment was more or less mutual, and it sort of mirrors the Delta/Lime Coke experience in this game (the difference being: one of them flipped town already).

Additionally, at this stage that one exception up there, the "My paranoia know no bounds!" post, makes me laugh out loud. That is an awkward moment that feels almost forced into the universe. Roxy upheld the strong town read immediately after that when I provided a prompt. So, like, what?

~~~

Conclusion

There are some isolated moments that raise questions about splints/Roxy compatibility. However, I think this review does well to illustrate why I viewed this pairing as a meaningful possibility in the first place. There are reasons for concern here, and I don't think they require significant reaching.

As I suggested with the Lime Coke/Roxy review, I may have an impression, but my mind is not made up. I am still listening and welcome questions (as long as I can make the damned site load long enough to answer them).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thank god I was able to post that without it disintegrating. Even opening the site is agony right now. I think it's a local issue for me (and this hotel).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There was another thing I wanted to look into, but I am not sure how feasible it will be if I cannot reliably click links or open posts or, well, do anything, without the site exploding. If I can manage it: I want to check into splints/Roxy relationships from past games. They're a unique pair (regardless of alignment), and I think that could be informative for me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That may not be feasible unfortunately. I'm not sure I have time to review the full site spreadsheet and even find appropriate games to review without sacrificing more New Zealand than I am willing to sacrifice.

[Lime Coke]

Oh hello JJJ.

[Lime Coke]

Okay might've misinterpreted what G-Man said then.

At this point I'm sorta leaning it towards FS vote at this rate but yeah.

[Lime Coke]

Boy can I write a more cringe sentence?

It's almost like I can't speak English.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay might've misinterpreted what G-Man said then.

At this point I'm sorta leaning it towards FS vote at this rate but yeah.

What leads you to that conclusion right now?