Monopoly Mafia (GAME OVER- TOWN WIN)

[Roxy]

@Lime Coke get in here afore they elim you non posting!

Why warn Lime and not Cape?

Also I don't love that reasoning, myself, which reminds me did Darling ever come back? They were lowest poster last I looked? They said they were here, then *poof* they weren't here.

@Cape90 why did you single out Sloonei and Lime as low posters, but not Wilgy and Darling? Darling left more of an impression on you with their one post?

I know what I posted came out wonky as I was tired yesterday. I was trying to get Lime to get in here BEFORE Cape attempted to elim a no poster. I am glad i did as I am reading them as town since their posting flurry.

I went with the top hat because I want everyone to know that I am wealthier than they are.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

I am assuming this is a joke vote?

I really hate RVS lol

For now gonna drop a vote on Lemon, that one post was molto pretzel, I'm not sure i buy it. [VOTE: Lemonfairy] aubergine

K, think I caught up. Gotta eat and catch my landlord up to what happened while they were on vacation, bbl.

I also DETEST RVS mostly bc I do not see the point - applying pressure for what? Votes whoopie! I feel it's more pressure-rizing to make an actual case with their posts that way (in my hopes) they feel pressure to respond. But I am old school in my playstyle and these newer players just are so different even after many games together I do not understand lolololol it's my age is all.

Lemon's posts have felt different than in the last couple of games we have played. There is no whimsy that I am used to from them. I am feeling bad tone-age instead.

Two joke votes on the same person in an 11 player game ... yucky.

and from Epi and LC which both of their votes felt weird. I suppose I would say LC's reasoning of getting them to 3 votes felt more off than Epi but make no mistake my eyebrow arched with both their votes.

[Cape90]

The thing about LC is I feel like he is solving in a way that I don't usually see from him which is somewhat tripping me up just meta-wise on him

[Cape90]

I hope DM makes some sort of reads this game before the end of the day

[Roxy]

I'm between fr voting Sloonei or Lime Coke just because those 2 have left the least impression on me this game.

Why not [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

This day ends in less then 12 hours yeah?

This post felt off, and now just because Cape misread the clock. It also felt like an obligatory effort to have a justifiable vote before the deadline by somebody who didn’t want to be caught off-wagon.

Nice notice. I did not catch that. I guess being on wagon helps players this game so I can see even baddies trying to get a vote toward a wagon. I personally am not going to give one f about being on wagon this game just bc of that host rule for this game.

I wanted to engage with Cape after they said I’d left no impression, but then Cape disappeared immediately after doing that.

So Sloonei, tell me why you have 3 votes, cause i don't think I understand it?

Why would you ask Sloonei why other people are voting him and not those of us who are?

bc she is playing in her own way.....

um I had a dream that svs was a giraffe and everybody knows giraffes are up to no good so
[VOTE: S~V~S] aubergine

I am tall, and when I was younger (and skinnier) I had a weirdly long neck, but not that long. But giraffes can be assholes, and so can I, so there is that.

I wanted to engage with Cape after they said I’d left no impression, but then Cape disappeared immediately after doing that.

So Sloonei, tell me why you have 3 votes, cause i don't think I understand it?

Epi and Long Con are both joke votes, I presume.

My vote wasn't a joke, but it wasn't serious. Have to begin somewhere.

Why did you interpret my vote and Long Con's vote as jokes without interacting with us about them first?

So Epi's vote, like Lemon's, was not a joke and was not serious but yet it was. Epi you then proceeded to vote sleep is it bc you now approve of sloonei's response? Or why?

That one ^^. It just reads so like covering your bases. "I was joking, but kinda not really". It's kinda slippery, like you don't want to commit to one or the other.

it should be read with time in mind
like at first it was just a joke but then it became serious
but at the same time I had to explain I was just joking at first while I was considering how far to push the bit

so yeah, that's probably why it reads like that

jk kinda but this is how your posts are making me feel.

[Cape90]

Out of the current "active posters" (im using that phrase very loosely) I feel a bit meh about Porscha and Epignosis the most and even then I feel like both have townyish moments, like porscha's words feeling genuine and the breifish point where Epi interjected in a convo with SVS about Sloonei #169 and #173

[Cape90]

i'll probs move off DM if she doesnt show up by EOD, which makes me wonder why I am even holding a vote there

[VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

Do you have reads on the game at this current moment? you haven't taken any real stances yet and I am more curious then anything

[Roxy]

3 votes on Sloon eh?




If he's town, what are the odds his wagon is pure?

This is not a wagon.

Impressive sang froid you got there.

I think I learned a word.

Does this tell you anything useful about Sloonei?

(Not that I learned a word, but, you know)

It really didn't. But it was still worth asking.

Generally when you have 3 votes in a small game like this, it's an easy misyeet. People forget to come back, or they run late at work or whatever. But he honestly doesn't seem all that concerned about it. I don't know that I would be going all No U if it were me, but "Eh I'm sure it's a joke" is very mellow of him.

I find it kinda towny.

Okay. Not my experience. I think the early person with the most votes early on (unless sig or DrWilgy ) is almost certainly safe.

Neither here nor there. I didn't get much out of any of this on any front.

Wow appreciate your unfiltered honesty here Ep. I feel much better about you as of now.

I am here.

Here am I.

[VOTE: DarlingMonroe] aubergine

but then this happened...what, exactly are you hoping for with this vote? Can't you just tag them and ask what's up? Elimming a low/no poster d 1 usually leads to tragedy imo.
But you do you who am I to ask you to play differently - really as much as I preach about letting people play their own way- sorry Epi.

Lime Coke is just visiting Jail, for some reason.

He's there for the LC Connection. Thanks, bro!

Just setting up the explosives to help your escape next day phase!

And I'll "file" that cake you made under 'Delicious'!

I quoted this just bc it was funny and made me giggle thanks to both LC's.

I'm between fr voting Sloonei or Lime Coke just because those 2 have left the least impression on me this game.

Why not [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

This day ends in less then 12 hours yeah?

There's a lot wrong w/ this post & it's line of thinking




Why not [VOTE: cape] aubergine

why is the line of thinking wrong? I think it's the only real line of thinking that I could have possibly have taken because I feel that a lot of the game isn't very indicative of much of anything

I have fringe townreads of you and roxy and that's it

Killin' folks who ain't participatin' RD1 gives town very little info





There's more to be gained by killin' a sumfin' rather than a nuthin' on D1

Well the thing was I just had no scum reads at that moment, so therefore if you think about it like "the active players are not pinging me as wolf", then it's more likely that "inactive players" are wolf
Then again, just about half the game is pretty inactive, in fact this game start is just pretty slow in general

So help get us started with a list of your town/baddie reads. Please!

Porscha feels towny but a bit awkward at the same time

Yeah I cannot read Porscha so can you expand on what made you feel this way? What was awkward in your view? Why do you feel Porscha is town?

[Roxy]

3 votes on Sloon eh?


If he's town, what are the odds his wagon is pure?

This is not a wagon.

Impressive sang froid you got there.

I think I learned a word.

Does this tell you anything useful about Sloonei?

(Not that I learned a word, but, you know)

It really didn't. But it was still worth asking.

Generally when you have 3 votes in a small game like this, it's an easy misyeet. People forget to come back, or they run late at work or whatever. But he honestly doesn't seem all that concerned about it. I don't know that I would be going all No U if it were me, but "Eh I'm sure it's a joke" is very mellow of him.

I find it kinda towny.

I'll sheep this
[VOTE: DarlingMonroe] aubergine

Was considering lemonfairy but I am also tired

What are sheeping in this post that made you vote DarlingMonroe? They were not even mentioned. This post was pingalicious.

I dig it.

My Sloonei vote was to put someone at 3.

There’s always money in the banana stand

What's up with your banana stand remarks? Yah I am too obtuse to "get it".

[Roxy]

Ok guys, let's chill on the bidding. I'm taking this one at $29, ok? I think we can all agree that this is best.

[Roxy]

The thing about LC is I feel like he is solving in a way that I don't usually see from him which is somewhat tripping me up just meta-wise on him

show me the posts you feel where LC is solving, please.

[Long Con]

The thing about LC is I feel like he is solving in a way that I don't usually see from him which is somewhat tripping me up just meta-wise on him

show me the posts you feel where LC is solving, please.

Can't wait to see which one it is as well!

[Long Con]

Ok guys, let's chill on the bidding. I'm taking this one at $29, ok? I think we can all agree that this is best.

[S~V~S]

Spoiler: show

3 votes on Sloon eh?


If he's town, what are the odds his wagon is pure?

This is not a wagon.

Impressive sang froid you got there.

I think I learned a word.

Does this tell you anything useful about Sloonei?

(Not that I learned a word, but, you know)

It really didn't. But it was still worth asking.

Generally when you have 3 votes in a small game like this, it's an easy misyeet. People forget to come back, or they run late at work or whatever. But he honestly doesn't seem all that concerned about it. I don't know that I would be going all No U if it were me, but "Eh I'm sure it's a joke" is very mellow of him.

I find it kinda towny.

I'll sheep this
[VOTE: DarlingMonroe] aubergine

Was considering lemonfairy but I am also tired

What are sheeping in this post that made you vote DarlingMonroe? They were not even mentioned. This post was pingalicious.

I dig it.

My Sloonei vote was to put someone at 3.

There’s always money in the banana stand

What's up with your banana stand remarks? Yah I am too obtuse to "get it".

@S~V~S took a course in an upstart MLM scheme! We wish her the best.

doubles

Theres always money in the banana stand

[Roxy]

Spoiler: show

This is not a wagon.

Impressive sang froid you got there.

I think I learned a word.

Does this tell you anything useful about Sloonei?

(Not that I learned a word, but, you know)

It really didn't. But it was still worth asking.

Generally when you have 3 votes in a small game like this, it's an easy misyeet. People forget to come back, or they run late at work or whatever. But he honestly doesn't seem all that concerned about it. I don't know that I would be going all No U if it were me, but "Eh I'm sure it's a joke" is very mellow of him.

I find it kinda towny.

I'll sheep this
[VOTE: DarlingMonroe] aubergine

Was considering lemonfairy but I am also tired

What are sheeping in this post that made you vote DarlingMonroe? They were not even mentioned. This post was pingalicious.

I dig it.

My Sloonei vote was to put someone at 3.

There’s always money in the banana stand

What's up with your banana stand remarks? Yah I am too obtuse to "get it".

@S~V~S took a course in an upstart MLM scheme! We wish her the best.

doubles

Theres always money in the banana stand

<3

[Long Con]

Day 1.5 Updates:

There is a new property up for auction. It is called CYAN2! It’s a fixer upper, for sure, but looking for the right buyer. You may now bid for this property in the Auction channel. Bidding will end at 9p Eastern on 7/9.

Ok, so let's just talk about this a little. Roxy and Sloonei probably want this the most. How do we feel about that? Did you know that Properties give you powers? I know that now. I like to coast into a game in a lazy slide and pick up the rules as I go, free-form kinda thing.

@falcon45ca got free parking at the motorcade and is immune from elimination today.

"When moving, mafia may choose to roll with 2d6, 2d8 or 2d10"
That's an impressive 20-space movement, falcon.

@S~V~S took a course in an upstart MLM scheme! We wish her the best.

"Tax Spaces:
If a player lands on the tax spaces, they will be slightly insanified with their posts the rest of phase as their tax."

@Roxy and @Sloonei have entered into a bidding war for CYAN3! Additionally, @DarlingMonroe and @lemonfairy have entered into a bidding war for FUCHSIA1! Who will come out on top?

How's it going, guys?

[Roxy]

Day 1.5 Updates:

There is a new property up for auction. It is called CYAN2! It’s a fixer upper, for sure, but looking for the right buyer. You may now bid for this property in the Auction channel. Bidding will end at 9p Eastern on 7/9.

Ok, so let's just talk about this a little. Roxy and Sloonei probably want this the most. How do we feel about that? Did you know that Properties give you powers? I know that now. I like to coast into a game in a lazy slide and pick up the rules as I go, free-form kinda thing.

@falcon45ca got free parking at the motorcade and is immune from elimination today.

"When moving, mafia may choose to roll with 2d6, 2d8 or 2d10"
That's an impressive 20-space movement, falcon.

@S~V~S took a course in an upstart MLM scheme! We wish her the best.

"Tax Spaces:
If a player lands on the tax spaces, they will be slightly insanified with their posts the rest of phase as their tax."

@Roxy and @Sloonei have entered into a bidding war for CYAN3! Additionally, @DarlingMonroe and @lemonfairy have entered into a bidding war for FUCHSIA1! Who will come out on top?

How's it going, guys?

Firstly this post feel like good effort from a town, please do not disappoint me.

Second I like how you are asking people how they feel about Sloon and I poss getting 2 colors the same.

Third I have no idea what's up with our private bidding bc I have not had any results come through. If it helps for town to know what properties are in which hands or who won a bid I am for total honesty.

Fourth I worry that DM has been a no show, do we just ass-u-me that Lemon will get the drop on DM and win the bid for fuchsia? Do I care about Lemon getting fuchsia? Kinda if I am honest.

Fifth Nice note on falcon's giant move on the board I had ass-u-med it was doubles. Could be baddie with odd roll abilities.

[Roxy]

@DarlingMonroe whereforartthou? We all be waiting on your catch up.

[Cape90]

The thing about LC is I feel like he is solving in a way that I don't usually see from him which is somewhat tripping me up just meta-wise on him

show me the posts you feel where LC is solving, please.

should have made it clear

lime coke

not long con

Lemon I wish I remembered your meta because I read you correctly a few games but those were a bit ago.

The stuff with Cape idk I actually don't remember if you were serious or not despite JUST reading your iso.

Idk maybe actively towny?

Cape prolly town for the attempted reaction test on Falcon.

Roxy prolly town for... reasons idk I like her.

I haven't played a regular game with Lime Coke in a while but these felt a bit more wordy then what I usually see, however, I feel like this could be easily explained through the slow threadstate that we are in right now

[Cape90]

3 votes on Sloon eh?


If he's town, what are the odds his wagon is pure?

This is not a wagon.

Impressive sang froid you got there.

I think I learned a word.

Does this tell you anything useful about Sloonei?

(Not that I learned a word, but, you know)

It really didn't. But it was still worth asking.

Generally when you have 3 votes in a small game like this, it's an easy misyeet. People forget to come back, or they run late at work or whatever. But he honestly doesn't seem all that concerned about it. I don't know that I would be going all No U if it were me, but "Eh I'm sure it's a joke" is very mellow of him.

I find it kinda towny.

I'll sheep this
[VOTE: DarlingMonroe] aubergine

Was considering lemonfairy but I am also tired

What are sheeping in this post that made you vote DarlingMonroe? They were not even mentioned. This post was pingalicious.

I was sheeping the reason to townread sloonei from S~V~S because I liked the reasoning. So I just kinda hopped on Darling even though I was semi-tempted to go lemon because lemon's push on me kind of pinged me

[Roxy]

@Cape90 any thoughts on what LC 1 posted?

[Cape90]

In terms of Porscha

like porscha's words feeling genuine

This is why I was townreading her

yeah game has 2 pages in it, everybody has been low impact so idk what's going on in here lol

I straight up dont remember lime coke posting since night 0 lol

[VOTE: Cape90] aubergine

their case on falcon makes too much sense this early it has to be a premeditated move

You don't think he's sounding tongue in cheek?

I think lemon fairy caught on that it was all a joke and then proceeded to further the joke

with these being the main quotes supporting that, like they feel authentic and not robotic

On the other hand

ok we are meme'ing then

I really thought cape was just meme'ing to get the game going and yet here we are

no the 2 pages are very confusing

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

Something about him is suspicious.

like, ,seriously, or

There is just something about the wording of these that bothers me, like it feels like Porscha is stalling with words?? It kinda feels a bit like a shy person talking.

[Cape90]

@Cape90 any thoughts on what LC 1 posted?

I think what Long Con said was interesting, is the 2nd thing outing for falcon???

I don't get why long con said that Roxy/Sloonei probably wanted the property the most either? Esp since both Long Con and falcon were also bidding high numbers for the property

[Roxy]

@Cape90 any thoughts on what LC 1 posted?

I think what Long Con said was interesting, is the 2nd thing outing for falcon???

I don't get why long con said that Roxy/Sloonei probably wanted the property the most either? Esp since both Long Con and falcon were also bidding high numbers for the property

thanks for the Porscha thoughts.

You seem to be confused about the set up. I would re-read page one again I was glad I did last night.

He said sloon and Roxy wanted Cyan 2 bc we are already in a private bidding war for Cyan 3.

LC 1 and falc are bidding only on Cyan 2 as anyone can.

@Scotty thank you!

[Cape90]

falcon45ca
Long Con
S~V~S
Roxy
Lemonfairy
Lime Coke
Sloonei
Epignosis
Porscha
DrWilgy
DarlingMonroe

This is where my reads stand
As janky as the color scheme is

[Roxy]

@Cape90 - also not necessarily outing for falc but it does push him into null for me bc it could be doubles OR the weird rolling baddies can do.

[Cape90]

well that makews my reads look kind of questionable already lol but okay

[Cape90]

oh i didnt know the image is edited, that's a nice detail

[Roxy]

SVS - feels town so far

Cape - idk we have not played much but I am fence sitting where you are concerned.

LC 2 - like your posts they feel good vibe-y

LC 1 - like your last post wish you more into the game as you are so good at dissection.

Epi - Feeling nullish to ok with you your tone feels ok but I have been hoodwinked by you so my guard is up.

falco - was digging your play until LC 1's post about the breakdown of the night now you are null - prove me wrong pal

Porscha - can't read you but I have hope you are ok this game. It does worry me a bit that you *seem* like you do not what is going on bc that just does not *feel* like your normal game style.

Sloonei - is slonnei'ing so far so good nothing to arch the brow so to speak

Darling - Will not vote a low/no poster d 1 - that is my style but day 2 is ma whole new day!

Lemon - seems like they are trying but their posts are all over the place. I am not comfortable with your vibe. I am probs wrong so I will see how I feel when it's crunch time.

Wilgy - got one decent post that wasn't all that decent imo. I know your jam is voting analysis which is why I was surprised you didn't bother with the N0 poll. LC 1 had to do your job. also I will not Wigly d 1 bc of site reasons.

[Roxy]

that post ,has errors figure it out lol I'm close to leaving work and will vote before I do. Doubt I can be around at poll close. I have to be an amazing grandma instead.

[S~V~S]

falco - was digging your play until LC 1's post about the breakdown of the night now you are null - prove me wrong pal

commuting

There's always money in the banana stand

[Roxy]

Lemon:

[VOTE: Cape90] aubergine

their case on falcon makes too much sense this early it has to be a premeditated move

You don't think he's sounding tongue in cheek?

no, it sounded very sincere and was well laid out

Cape vote

we need something spicy to happen

we need something spicy to happen

your vote is the spiciest thing in the thread.

Why are dying on Cape Hill? What are you seeing that I am not?

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

The response to my post left me with way more questions about their alignment than answers.

this doesn't feel satisfying
I think we need to get someone to 3 votes

what a wild thing to say for a town. Doesn't seem to care hits 3 just wants *someone* at 3. Why??

we need something spicy to happen

your vote is the spiciest thing in the thread.

Why are dying on Cape Hill? What are you seeing that I am not?

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

cool non-response but can you possibly answer my questions?

it was a non-serious vote and I exaggerated my commitment to it
but I also kind of agree with whoever pointed out Cape was voting someone absent/didn't post much so I do want to see where that goes

And here starts all of my worries. Same like SVS. Slippery, slick are v apt terms.

we need something spicy to happen

your vote is the spiciest thing in the thread.

Why are dying on Cape Hill? What are you seeing that I am not?

I feel like this contains a wolf. I am bothered by what Roxy is saying here

methinks if there is a wolf in this, there is only 1 between Roxy and Cape

v/w or w/v and not w/w

what the what?

skimming Sloonei, I don't really have a read either
I like the post where they say none of you are town
the post about Cape disappearing after saying Sloonei left no impression when Sloonei wanted to engage is a bit of soft shade but I don't really find it concerning

so are you actually suspicious of Cape or??

[VOTE: DarlingMonroe] aubergine

this is a serious vote

why this vote - again no reasons. Just want someone at 3.

So... you didn't mean it, it was kind of a joke, BUT you did kinda mean it.

yes, exactly

Standard non-answer from Lemon.

That one ^^. It just reads so like covering your bases. "I was joking, but kinda not really". It's kinda slippery, like you don't want to commit to one or the other.

it should be read with time in mind
like at first it was just a joke but then it became serious
but at the same time I had to explain I was just joking at first while I was considering how far to push the bit

so yeah, that's probably why it reads like that

slick, slippery, unable to be firm on reads, wishy-washy.

this is where my mind is. On Lemon.

[Roxy]

Hope @Lemonfairy can respond soon-ish.

[DrWilgy]

I need someone to solve for me today lol. I keep trying to open thread, but between hurricanes and the rest of my team at work being without power I'm kinda dead for abit.

[Lemonfairy]

Hope @Lemonfairy can respond soon-ish.

ok but what do you want me to respond to? the allegations of me being "slippery"?
how do I even respond to that?

I think I already explained my thoughts enough
I was just poking at the thread randomly and waffling on Cape
it's not that deep

[DrWilgy]

I voted lemon. Roxy looks like they did work and yay counterwagons

[Roxy]

I voted lemon. Roxy looks like they did work and yay counterwagons

What about cape's car in Porscha?
Any other thoughts?
Also sorry about your hurricane issues. I understand if you are not all caught up and only reading this page.

[Roxy]

Not car ffs case

[Long Con]

I'm a little sketched-out on DrWilgy. [VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

[Lemonfairy]

reads:

TRs
Cape - later posts are solvy
Roxy - I want to OMGUS but looking through ISO, Roxy's prob town (still not very happy about the shady case on me though)
SVS - SVS is ok too

TLs
falcon - putting falcon as townlean probs
Long Con - tone probs idk
Epignosis - maybe
Lime Coke - I wish I remember what your meta was too (I move Lime up from POE because 5 was too many but I'm not sure TBH)

This was going to be my nulls but looks like it's going to be my POE now
Porscha - sadly a null
Sloonei - "This is not a wagon." - Sloonei, 2024
DrWilgy - "I need someone to solve for me today lol." - DrWilgy, 2024
DarlingMonroe - "I am here." DarlingMonroe, 2024

[Lemonfairy]

should I be concerned my POE is mostly lowposters? maybe
will my concern change my reads in any way? probably not

[Lemonfairy]

now I lowkey want to grab a quote of the game from everyone

[Lemonfairy]

I'm happy on DM rn but I wouldn't mind jumping on DrWilgy if that ever gains traction
idk about everyone else

[Sloonei]

“DarlingMonroe has 2 votes, I wonder why that is. Let’s look at their posts.”

I am here.

Oh.

[Lemonfairy]

if y'all choose to elim me today, I will just laugh at you for being wrong in dead chat, no biggie

[Sloonei]

Voting a low poster is only a good option in the absence of a compelling suspect.

I do not currently have a compelling suspect, but I’d like to. Does one exist?

[Long Con]

Roxy's last (Wolf) game was not similar to this one, agree?

[Epignosis]

So Epi's vote, like Lemon's, was not a joke and was not serious but yet it was. Epi you then proceeded to vote sleep is it bc you now approve of sloonei's response? Or why?

My vote wasn't a joke. It was a serious vote- as serious as a vote could be at the outset of Day 1. In other words, a vote to move things along in some fashion.

I voted sleep because I like to have a vote on the board to be able to see the poll and no longer saw any reason to keep it on Sloonei. "Sleep" is a temporary place.

I am here.

Here am I.

[VOTE: DarlingMonroe] aubergine

but then this happened...what, exactly are you hoping for with this vote? Can't you just tag them and ask what's up? Elimming a low/no poster d 1 usually leads to tragedy imo.
But you do you who am I to ask you to play differently - really as much as I preach about letting people play their own way- sorry Epi.

No apology necessary. I moved to DM for the same reason I voted Sloonei. Stirring the pot.

[Lemonfairy]

Voting a low poster is only a good option in the absence of a compelling suspect.

I do not currently have a compelling suspect, but I’d like to. Does one exist?

idk, I don't have anyone compelling either
it's hard to tell for a lot of people with the posts we have so far

[Sloonei]

Roxy's last (Wolf) game was not similar to this one, agree?

I was her teammate. She was mostly preoccupied with life during her one phase of that game. But if she’s making substantive contributions here, then yeah, I guess.

[Sloonei]

Voting a low poster is only a good option in the absence of a compelling suspect.

I do not currently have a compelling suspect, but I’d like to. Does one exist?

idk, I don't have anyone compelling either
it's hard to tell for a lot of people with the posts we have so far

Who is definitely town?