[ENDGAME]: Film Directors.

[Marmot]

And why would he still be looking at me, Made?

You're right, logically, he would of dropped the case as his reason for thinking you or roxy were mafia was chained directly to Vomp right? Once Vomp died, Llama should have no opinions of you or Roxy, and his cases against you and Roxy should of dissolved. But they didn't, not truly anyways. There are very many points independent of Vomp that suddently Llama has forgotten in favor of a Ninja Bloop vote.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p110728

SVS hasn't really brought me up as a suspect before. Now she doesn't trust me. She knows I am on her trail and she is scared. Watch for me to be the mindless bandwagon alternative to Vomps tomorrow.

Btw llama, what are your thoughts on Roxy? Does she usually just post thoughts about players without addressing actual game content?

Damn straight I'm going to vote Vomps tomorrow. SVS or Roxy or both are desperate to see absolutely anybody but him lynched. What better reason to lynch him is there than that?

My suspicions go:
1. Vomps
2. Roxy
3. SVS

SVS is only below Roxy because I think she mostly sounds sincere, and I have a hard time believing she is playing the most blatant baddie game ever rather than just being a victim of bad luck, but the vote record looks VERY bad for her. Roxy has been wiffle waffly and non-committal, barely brought up suspicion of MP before this lynch, and her voting record is as bad as SVS'. I don't trust her one bit.

Arguments against Blooper?

After a game of silence, you've gotten awfully chatty now that I asked people to lynch you, Blooper. Awfully chatty indeed.

Which If i'm correct He's said early this game to someone else.....

Vompatti - I still think his level of participation so far is unusual and I don't trust him. He might well get my vote today.

But what do you I know?

Ok as there is confusion.

TLDR: Llama is shifty because he suspected a Squid before SVS or Roxy. While Yes, part of his suspicion was based on Vomp, Not all of his stated suspension was. Above i listed all the loose ends in the cases that llama created that are separate from Vomp

The second post with the quote from Llama re:bloops are drawing parallels between the reasons Llama found Vomp suspicious and why he found bloops suspicious. I find these parallel noteworthy because you'd assume that if someone suspects someone for one reason, and is prove to be wrong, they wouldn't push for a lynch against another person for the same exact reason, or at least wait a cycle before doing so because they were just wrong.

I agree with llama, just because you're wrong once, doesn't mean you'll be wrong next time. If we were taking a math test, then I would agree, but this is mafia. Some baddies act like civvies and some civvies act like baddies.

Also, who do you propose we lynch that is bad that we can link llama to? Additionally, how is tthat productive? If you think llama is bad, you should try to lynch llama. We can't just connect the dots backwards, not unless llama was an immortal baddie, which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist in this game.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Catching up a bit...

The case on Llama oscillates too much right now, IMO, between seeking an easy lynch in reaction for the past two ones and a tricky gamble that he'd actually be bad. I'd be surprised for him to be the orchestrator of all that's happened. Has he exhibited in past games such a tactic of leading hunts decisively, but turning out to have been a grand manipulator?

I think the best option as of now is to keep him alive, not lynch him unless we find a tie to a baddie, but not listen to him, or let him lead a lynch as he is very good at doing that.

I think he has made it very clear that he doesn't want to lead anymore lynches.

[Marmot]

Bass, are you suspicious of anyone aside from me?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Bass, are you suspicious of anyone aside from me?

To be honest I have been really focused on you but other people are starting to get my attention. I also have my eye on Rico, Roxy,and also something about BR caught my attention during my re read so thats like my top 4. Who is your top suspects at this time?

[Marmot]

Bass, are you suspicious of anyone aside from me?

To be honest I have been really focused on you but other people are starting to get my attention. I also have my eye on Rico, Roxy,and also something about BR caught my attention during my re read so thats like my top 4. Who is your top suspects at this time?

Roxy. The previous lynch looks like a save, for more than any of the vomps lynch 'saves'.

Lower on my radar. SVS, LC, and you.

Players I've watched but can't decide on: Rico and Made.

[Marmot]

Players I need to look at: Rico, BR, Canuck and DF

[A Person]

I've yet to see Birdman or Boyhood, but I thought Budapest was particularly good. I won't vote though as I've not seen anything apart from it.

Aww, you could though.

Whiplash was also quite compelling.

Yeah, I wanna watch Whiplash too.

I guess I'll vote for GBH since i'm not going to see them all before the poll ends.

I watched Boyhood and I think GBH still beats it.

[Made]

Ok as there is confusion.

TLDR: Llama is shifty because he suspected a Squid before SVS or Roxy. While Yes, part of his suspicion was based on Vomp, Not all of his stated suspension was. Above i listed all the loose ends in the cases that llama created that are separate from Vomp

The second post with the quote from Llama re:bloops are drawing parallels between the reasons Llama found Vomp suspicious and why he found bloops suspicious. I find these parallel noteworthy because you'd assume that if someone suspects someone for one reason, and is prove to be wrong, they wouldn't push for a lynch against another person for the same exact reason, or at least wait a cycle before doing so because they were just wrong.

I don't agree with this. Just because the conclusion is wrong, doesn't mean the reasoning leading there is.

Suppose you were a police officer and you found someone next to a dead body with a bloody knife in their hands. You would assume that person did it, yes? It's possible they didn't, but the balance of the evidence is that they did.

Now suppose you later find out that they were framed and are innocent. Okay, fine. Next day, you go out on the homicide beat, and find a guy with a literally smoking gun fleeing the scene of a murder. Would you say "well, I was wrong about the last guy, this guy must be innocent too?" Of course not. You would assume that the evidence is what it appears to be unless given a good reason to think otherwise.

Ok, but let's try it where it's a little less obvious. I'd say that standing next to a dead person with a knife would be the same as someone who was outed.
I'd say this is a far fairer comparison:
Let's say an officer is on call to a bank robbery. She sees a man briskly walking in the opposite direction with shifty eyes. She tries to flag him down from the car, but he refuses to stop, so she get's out the car and arrest him. He was innocent.

A week later, a bank robbery occurs and the same cop is on call. A person once again walks quickly down the street in the opposite direction. Wouldn't she hesitate to arrest out of fear of once again confusing the same relatively innocent, but ping worth action with something relevant.

I think it's reasonable to expect a person to be hesitant to vote someone for the same reason two nights in a row after being wrong. Are you saying that the comparison of a person with a knife next to a dead body and a person talking more is so adept that you don't even second guess its fallibility after it failed? I've been talking more than usual this game why not go after me next?

RE: MM The thing is tho, he had other option. Why create a new case when he still had one? I'd look specifically at Roxy and SVS as the cart before Llama, the wagon.

[thellama73]

I've been talking more than usual this game why not go after me next?

Don't tempt me.

And regarding your analogy, yes, a good cop should absolutely pursue the second suspect rather than assume he's innocent just because the last one was.

[thellama73]

I also think you're misrepresenting my cases on both Blooper and Vomps, Made. They were not identical, nor were they based on "talking more than usual." Vmops' was based on increased on topic engagement, which I only noticed becuase he is such a uniquely unconventional player.

Blooper is not an unconventional player. My case on her were based on her willingness to follow my Vomps suspicion with little original analysis, and a sudden change in her talkativeness when I mentioned her name.

Those are not the same cases, and they are not based on merely being more talkative, so you are straw-manning me, buddy.

[Turnip Head]

TLDR: Llama is shifty because he suspected a Squid before SVS or Roxy.

RE: MM The thing is tho, he had other option. Why create a new case when he still had one? I'd look specifically at Roxy and SVS as the cart before Llama, the wagon.

But I thought you said you didn't suspect Llama/ you don't think we should lynch him... so what are you going on about here? You seem to feel strongly about this but I can't figure out why.

[Made]

TLDR: Llama is shifty because he suspected a Squid before SVS or Roxy.

RE: MM The thing is tho, he had other option. Why create a new case when he still had one? I'd look specifically at Roxy and SVS as the cart before Llama, the wagon.

But I thought you said you didn't suspect Llama/ you don't think we should lynch him... so what are you going on about here? You seem to feel strongly about this but I can't figure out why.

It's call a power play, Bojang.

No, but I don't think we should lynch him, as I don't have enough faith in my read just yet, and it's mainly dependant on Llama having ulterior motives for his vote of Bloops rather than Roxy or SVS.

[S~V~S]

I thought his main reason for suspecting me, at least, was tied to Vomps being bad. When Vomps came up civ, that reason was gone.

[Made]

I thought his main reason for suspecting me, at least, was tied to Vomps being bad. When Vomps came up civ, that reason was gone.

His main reason was gone, but he multiple other reason. My question is why did he want to vote Ninjabloop right then rather than continuing suspicions of you and Roxy where relevant?

[thellama73]

I thought his main reason for suspecting me, at least, was tied to Vomps being bad. When Vomps came up civ, that reason was gone.

This is correct.

[S~V~S]

I thought his main reason for suspecting me, at least, was tied to Vomps being bad. When Vomps came up civ, that reason was gone.

His main reason was gone, but he multiple other reason. My question is why did he want to vote Ninjabloop right then rather than continuing suspicions of you and Roxy where relevant?

But his suspicions of me weren't relevant; why do you keep saying this?

[Marmot]

I wish I was BWT. That's his third time coming back to life in two games this year.

[Made]

The Parts of Llama's arguement that are relevant regardless of Vomp are in bold and underlined

Llama - that is not true. I have asked should I conform to your suspicion just so I am not suspicious. That is not saying let me play my own way it is asking a serious question - should I stop hunting baddies and just go along with the crowd? No one is telling me howto play - I can tel the difference.

I do not think it is a serious question, I think it is a rhetorical question, but I will answer it anyway. No, of course not. But who is suggesting you do that? No one is. I do not find you suspicious because you don't suspect Vomps. Lots of people don't suspect Vomps. I find you suspicious because of the timing and placement of your votes, which I think I've been quite clear about.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting you, but you seem to be very defensive of your playstyle, even though no one has critiqued it that I have seen.

llama - you did not even respond to the reason I did not vote for Vomps. If you were so concerned why wouldn't you have said something before now? Should I have just went along like a good little poppet and voted the way you like? I am sorry but that is not the way I play. And I know it is not the way you play. Give my posts a good long look I have nothing to hide - if you have any questions I will be happy to respond.

Llama - yes I understand my votes look bad but you are wrong when you say MP was not on my radar when in fact I said I thought Canuck had made some decent points - but - the top 3 vote getters last round were MP, Vomps and MM I had not read back on MP and bc I was unsure of my vote rather than use someone else's opinions/suspicions for my vote reasoning I like to use my own. Out of the 3 MP's game stood out the most bc this game he was very back track-y but in the beginning of Dr Who he was laser focused and unbending in his suspicions so I went with MP.
i am sorry but I have to play my own way. I can tel you in the 100's of games I have played I have never tried to save a teamie mostly I am one of the first to vote a teamie or even make the case myself - in other words I have never once voted to save a teamie nor have I ever defended one ofc this is all wifom but it is checkable. if Vomps was my teammate I would have been the first to make the case or held onto your coattails of suspicion.

The only value is what others have given it. I personally think we would learn just as much with a Made or MM lynch - their are some who have not even commented on Made and some who are quietly backing him up. As for MM he seems to be suspciousof everyone who did not vote for Vomps - except himself. Do you see value in everyone putting their eggs in one basket?
Should I vote for someone I am not as suspicious of as others just to conform? tbh that does seem like what a civ does - conforms.

Your defensiveness is very puzzling to me, especially since you have taken no votes and don't seem likely to today.

SVS hasn't really brought me up as a suspect before. Now she doesn't trust me. She knows I am on her trail and she is scared. Watch for me to be the mindless bandwagon alternative to Vomps tomorrow.

Btw llama, what are your thoughts on Roxy? Does she usually just post thoughts about players without addressing actual game content?

Damn straight I'm going to vote Vomps tomorrow. SVS or Roxy or both are desperate to see absolutely anybody but him lynched. What better reason to lynch him is there than that?

My suspicions go:
1. Vomps
2. Roxy
3. SVS

SVS is only below Roxy because I think she mostly sounds sincere, and I have a hard time believing she is playing the most blatant baddie game ever rather than just being a victim of bad luck, but the vote record looks VERY bad for her. Roxy has been wiffle waffly and non-committal, barely brought up suspicion of MP before this lynch, and her voting record is as bad as SVS'. I don't trust her one bit.

The above underlined and bold still apply. I'm curious why Llama decided to construct a new case rather look at You, SVS, or even more peculiar, Roxy.

He did infact mention Roxy, but seemed to drop it in favor of Bloop which gives me a lot of pause.

[Made]

Also, Just noticed, Gag's off for Champion game. My chain of thinking right now is Llama might be trying to pull what i pulled in that game. Give someone attention, then absolving them, thus removing them from most people's radar.

[Marmot]

Also, Just noticed, Gag's off for Champion game. My chain of thinking right now is Llama might be trying to pull what i pulled in that game. Give someone attention, then absolving them, thus removing them from most people's radar.

Gag's off? Is that what Rob did with the baddies in that game?

[S~V~S]

I told you the other day, they do not apply. This one:

thellama73 wrote:SVS hasn't really brought me up as a suspect before. Now she doesn't trust me. She knows I am on her trail and she is scared. Watch for me to be the mindless bandwagon alternative to Vomps tomorrow.

is predicated on Vomps being bad.

I am by no means defending him, but a vote for me would not have been any more reasonable than a vote for Bloop was, and I am not sure why you are saying so.

Do YOU suspect me, Made?

[thellama73]

Also, Just noticed, Gag's off for Champion game. My chain of thinking right now is Llama might be trying to pull what i pulled in that game. Give someone attention, then absolving them, thus removing them from most people's radar.

You give me far too much credit.

[S~V~S]

Are you saying you think llama, me & roxy set up an elaborate distancing scheme or something to that effect?

I have to go to sleep, but I can't look forward to this

[S~V~S]

Also, Just noticed, Gag's off for Champion game. My chain of thinking right now is Llama might be trying to pull what i pulled in that game. Give someone attention, then absolving them, thus removing them from most people's radar.

Gag's off? Is that what Rob did with the baddies in that game?

No one should ever talk about games in progress in another game thread. Epi should not have needed to specify that.

[Marmot]

Also, Just noticed, Gag's off for Champion game. My chain of thinking right now is Llama might be trying to pull what i pulled in that game. Give someone attention, then absolving them, thus removing them from most people's radar.

Gag's off? Is that what Rob did with the baddies in that game?

No one should ever talk about games in progress in another game thread. Epi should not have needed to specify that.

Joke failed.

[thellama73]

Made, you keep asking why I made a new case instead of going after SVS or Roxy. I don't know how to put this more simply, because the principal reason I suspected Roxy and SVS is now gone, and I no longer think they are bad (at least not SVS. I am still slightly hesitant about Roxy). What do you want me to do, pursue people I don't think are bad just for the sake of consistency? Why would I do that?

As John Maynard Keynes once said in between bouts of economic incompetence, when the facts change, I change my opinion. It would be madness to do otherwise.

linki: I got your joke, MM

[Marmot]

Are you saying you think llama, me & roxy set up an elaborate distancing scheme or something to that effect?

I have to go to sleep, but I can't look forward to this

Oh, and I wouldn't put this (or anything) past you.

[S~V~S]

MM, Perhaps i was distracted by the "Rob", lol, Sorry

Linki, I think he is accusing you of setting up suspicion on me & Roxy intentionally, so you could back off of us and thereby we ALL would look less suspicious. That seems to be where this is headed. Extreme distancing, if you will.

I could be wrong, but that seems to be what he is saying.

linki@ MM~ then you have never had baddie BTS with me becasue i do not distance, and I do not do "plans". But it will be fun seeing what Made have cooked up.

[S~V~S]

And what in your experience with me leads you to "not put anything past me"? IIRC, most of my really crazy baddie crap was well before I met you, or before there even was a Syndicate.

Tell me about the shenanigans that led you to this conclusion?

[Marmot]

And what in your experience with me leads you to "not put anything past me"? IIRC, most of my really crazy baddie crap was well before I met you, or before there even was a Syndicate.

Tell me about the shenanigans that led you to this conclusion?

Maybe I regard you rather highly as a mafia player and also have little to no experience with you being a baddie.

The only game where you are a baddie that comes to mind is Monopoly, and your lynch was a fluke in that one anyway from what I recall.

[S~V~S]

So why exactly would you put nothing past ME specifically?

[Marmot]

So why exactly would you put nothing past ME specifically?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 19#p112719

[S~V~S]

Thats a weasel answer, and you know it. I read that, i was replying to it.

You have no idea what i would and would not do as a baddie, so it sounds to me like you were just saying that to give Mades story a little momentum.

[Marmot]

Thats a weasel answer, and you know it. I read that, i was replying to it.

You have no idea what i would and would not do as a baddie, so it sounds to me like you were just saying that to give Mades story a little momentum.

Or you're paranoid? I'm not trying to give Made's story momentum. His story suggests that llama is bad which I do not agree with.

[S~V~S]

OK, I will remember that and keep it in mind as you post and vote the next few days.

And no, not paranoid yet, not even close. But when one of my top suspects comes in here with a story mixing me up with someone in a totally meta way, and one of my other top suspects chimes in with his corroboratory opinion, I notice that.

[thellama73]

OK, I will remember that and keep it in mind as you post and vote the next few days.

And no, not paranoid yet, not even close. But when one of my top suspects comes in here with a story mixing me up with someone in a totally meta way, and one of my other top suspects chimes in with his corroboratory opinion, I notice that.

You hear that, MM?

[Made]

Also, Just noticed, Gag's off for Champion game. My chain of thinking right now is Llama might be trying to pull what i pulled in that game. Give someone attention, then absolving them, thus removing them from most people's radar.

Gag's off? Is that what Rob did with the baddies in that game?

No one should ever talk about games in progress in another game thread. Epi should not have needed to specify that.

Yeah, since the games over, I can talk about it freely now.
(linki: OH I get it now!)

I told you the other day, they do not apply. This one:

thellama73 wrote:SVS hasn't really brought me up as a suspect before. Now she doesn't trust me. She knows I am on her trail and she is scared. Watch for me to be the mindless bandwagon alternative to Vomps tomorrow.

is predicated on Vomps being bad.

I am by no means defending him, but a vote for me would not have been any more reasonable than a vote for Bloop was, and I am not sure why you are saying so.

Do YOU suspect me, Made?

SpOliErS!

Also, Just noticed, Gag's off for Champion game. My chain of thinking right now is Llama might be trying to pull what i pulled in that game. Give someone attention, then absolving them, thus removing them from most people's radar.

You give me far too much credit.

Not really. I mean, I have far less mafia experience than all three of you, and I pulled it, and pretty successfully, I could see you, SVS, and Roxy getting away with it. I'm more on board with a joint effort between you and SVS at this point tho. due to the amount of distance you would of put between you and a hypothetical Mafia Roxy.
linki: While we're on the subject, SVS, What is your opinion of Llama atm?

Double linki:
Games that come to mind showing how cunning of a player you can be is pretty much every game where we've butted heads, namely Misfits and Monty Python, both brilliantly played-- I can go into more detail if you feel this is too weasel like. Regardless of personal antidotes, numbers don't lie.

[Marmot]

OK, I will remember that and keep it in mind as you post and vote the next few days.

And no, not paranoid yet, not even close. But when one of my top suspects comes in here with a story mixing me up with someone in a totally meta way, and one of my other top suspects chimes in with his corroboratory opinion, I notice that.

Good, now I know how to 'steam your kettle' for the next few days.

[thellama73]

Flase. Numbers lie all the time. They're called statistics.

[Marmot]

I just realized my signature is not PG-rated. Is that a problem?

[S~V~S]

OK, I will remember that and keep it in mind as you post and vote the next few days.

And no, not paranoid yet, not even close. But when one of my top suspects comes in here with a story mixing me up with someone in a totally meta way, and one of my other top suspects chimes in with his corroboratory opinion, I notice that.

Good, now I know how to 'steam your kettle' for the next few days.

Why would you want to intentionally upset someone?

Bass, are you suspicious of anyone aside from me?

To be honest I have been really focused on you but other people are starting to get my attention. I also have my eye on Rico, Roxy,and also something about BR caught my attention during my re read so thats like my top 4. Who is your top suspects at this time?

Roxy. The previous lynch looks like a save, for more than any of the vomps lynch 'saves'.

Lower on my radar. SVS, LC, and you.

Players I've watched but can't decide on: Rico and Made.

But you DO agree on the Roxy & me suspish (re Roxy I thought I saw something that would make her civ after a good reading of the roles, but )

Linki~ I think Llama COULD be bad, but my experience of him says he is not. I feel that he would have been more circumspect on the Blooper lynch had he been bad, especially after dragging the whole thread through a 3 day Vompathon. So i am sure this plays into your story about me & llama, but as we both know, it is not true

Linki,um maybe change it for now. Talk to MP about that; I was not under the impression that we were family friendly in general.

[Made]

I just realized my signature is not PG-rated. Is that a problem?

Wait, this is a pg game???

[S~V~S]

And by both, Made, i mean you & I. I know it isn't true, and I think you do, too.

Linki, no, but we have a preteen in another game that MM is playing.

[Marmot]

SVS, let me know what you think about this post.

[Tangrowth]

Probably wouldn't worry about it, MM.

[Marmot]

Probably wouldn't worry about it, MM.

Too late.

[S~V~S]

I saw it and replied to it twice; I believe that was the post I referred to as "weasel words". And can you please QUOTE it? I am in bed with my phone lol, and clicking links is a pain in the ass. And even when not on phone it makes it harder to follow. If you want to also put in the link to make the context easier to find, that's cool.

[S~V~S]

And you have not said why you would want to intentionally upset someone.

[Marmot]

OK, I will remember that and keep it in mind as you post and vote the next few days.

And no, not paranoid yet, not even close. But when one of my top suspects comes in here with a story mixing me up with someone in a totally meta way, and one of my other top suspects chimes in with his corroboratory opinion, I notice that.

Good, now I know how to 'steam your kettle' for the next few days.

Why would you want to intentionally upset someone?

Bass, are you suspicious of anyone aside from me?

To be honest I have been really focused on you but other people are starting to get my attention. I also have my eye on Rico, Roxy,and also something about BR caught my attention during my re read so thats like my top 4. Who is your top suspects at this time?

Roxy. The previous lynch looks like a save, for more than any of the vomps lynch 'saves'.

Lower on my radar. SVS, LC, and you.

Players I've watched but can't decide on: Rico and Made.

But you DO agree on the Roxy & me suspish (re Roxy I thought I saw something that would make her civ after a good reading of the roles, but )

Linki~ I think Llama COULD be bad, but my experience of him says he is not. I feel that he would have been more circumspect on the Blooper lynch had he been bad, especially after dragging the whole thread through a 3 day Vompathon. So i am sure this plays into your story about me & llama, but as we both know, it is not true

Linki,um maybe change it for now. Talk to MP about that; I was not under the impression that we were family friendly in general.

Except that this is not my story. This Made's idea that you are pinning on me because I made a comment about it.

Linki: I never said I want to intentionally upset someone. I said Good, now I know how.

[Marmot]

I saw it and replied to it twice; I believe that was the post I referred to as "weasel words". And can you please QUOTE it? I am in bed with my phone lol, and clicking links is a pain in the ass. And even when not on phone it makes it harder to follow. If you want to also put in the link to make the context easier to find, that's cool.

I apologize, I linked the wrong post. I thought I had copied a different post.

This is the one I meant to link.