TOWN WINS Danganronpa 3: Future Mafia

[MacDougall]

No team I can imagine kills Porcha (or Pyxxy) and then Tony.

Jack's NKA here comes from a place of hoping he can find a slam dunk false positive case on town but when he can't he simply takes refuge in the truth.

[MacDougall]

Sigh.

I see where LC is coming from but I also think we need to chop MR cuz I think the Wilgy c/w only rly makes sense if MR is mafia?

Who else is bad? Who is your top suspect? Why so quiet this game?

Someone once said if Mac is alive D3 he is bad.
I quite agree with this train of thought.

I could vote for you v easily.

My initial reaction is to reject this. Mac seems town to me. MR seems scummy to me.

But if that's true....why is TSP dead?

Like LC said, we're in position to sleepwalk to a MR yeet. If I'm wolves with MR, I call his survival a lost cause and shoot someone who voted him. Mac's a great option because if he's right about other suspicions, it shuts him up and if he's wrong, you can use his death to point at the townies he suspected.

So why is TSP dead?

I got the feeling reading his posts he had a great role.

Radish is baddie to me too, it's just the Porscha kill that makes me think ---Mac. Could be wrong--sure but it is just a gut thing.

Yeah wtf is Porscha dead for that matter?

No shade. I like Porscha a lot. But Porscha kinda tends to get mischopped and rarely bulldog wrestles a wolf to the ground.

Here he's trying to steer Roxy towards me. But Jack unfortunately doesn't have stones large enough to commit to killing me. He could have cuz I wasn't coming back.

Jack you could have won if you just voted me out instead of bussing lol.

[MacDougall]

I could/will vote for:

gims
Radish
Mac

I think 3 baddies max bc of the 3P role and the town had a f'n stump that is the most useless town role ever written. Whoever dreamed that up had zero imagination.

I feel like Mac/Radishes are almost a....what do you call it? Difference check? One is scum and the other is town.

Gims is wolfy with Radishes, seeming very unwilling to vote there. That was the main reason I voted Radishes, because of Gims super not wanting Radishes dead, not because of anything Radishes actually did or said beyond the quadcomboposts.

@Master Radishes Jack trying to put us in a difference check here is mafia agenda to try to keep miselims in front of Falcon who was being too passive.

[gims]

Feel free to continue to highlight the "obviously town" things in his iso but the spectre of your Jack townread being the reason you've survived the game thus far looms large also.

I didn't understand the latter part of this post

oh, I think our styles clash very hard. I think you're really just town, which helps both of us solve our PoEs. but I disagree with how youre solving now on a fundamental level and I'm unsure if I can communicate with you effectively.

check the progression jack has before voting falcon. its about people in the POE he had in his mind that he was striking as probtown based off night actions. that comes after the post you highlighted about not knowing what scum team would make the kills they made (fmpov, I think reading into it should be absolutely secundary to reading the slots atm). he then concludes, correctly as it turns out, that falcon is a good place to put your vote. that whole thing feels like genuinely coming to a conclusion, and not something fake. im highlighting one of them but I think there are plenty of those moments in jack's ISO.

[MacDougall]

You can see the mafia agenda in a lot of Jack's play after you recognise Falcon is mafia tbh.

Gims, Roxy, MR all have anti town content but the way they articulate it has a strong tone of town entitlement to it. They have their reads. Jack lacks town entitlement to his pushes. He's just trying to find miselims instead. His positions shift subtly around what's best for business. With an absence of focusing on Falcon that can't be explained away given his role as "the voice of reason" in this game.

[MacDougall]

Feel free to continue to highlight the "obviously town" things in his iso but the spectre of your Jack townread being the reason you've survived the game thus far looms large also.

I didn't understand the latter part of this post

oh, I think our styles clash very hard. I think you're really just town, which helps both of us solve our PoEs. but I disagree with how youre solving now on a fundamental level and I'm unsure if I can communicate with you effectively.

check the progression jack has before voting falcon. its about people in the POE he had in his mind that he was striking as probtown based off night actions. that comes after the post you highlighted about not knowing what scum team would make the kills they made (fmpov, I think reading into it should be absolutely secundary to reading the slots atm). he then concludes, correctly as it turns out, that falcon is a good place to put your vote. that whole thing feels like genuinely coming to a conclusion, and not something fake. im highlighting one of them but I think there are plenty of those moments in jack's ISO.

That's very much a you problem because I'm very good at mafia so you should probably adapt not dismiss.

[Long Con]

Ama.

well I think one of us is skill issuing with jack cause I read his ISO and its very clearly town fmpov. I don't understand the associative you're throwing with falcon. yesterday, jack votes falcon, 'not married to it', but never returns to do anything else with that. I think bussing and then doing nothing with it, while *fine*, isn't how scum strategizes more often than not. the vote would come with *reasons* or whatever. the 'not married with it' would come with alternatives. you see what im saying?

why can't it just be LC?

No gims. A mafia voting a mafia and hedging like that isn't townie. That's standard operating procedure.

The mentality behind it is to put his vote there but also give town no confidence in following it.

Like this?

fine let's kill falcon

[MacDougall]

You're going to have to highlight all the others in his iso gims cuz that one isn't enough.

It should be clear why he would vote Falcon there as mafia. Falcon's own passivity had made him default poe member. MR and Roxy's fire mean they're no longer viable. You are his huckleberry. Voting me is fraught with danger and he knows this about me. If he tried to get me over and failed (especially if Falcon goes over) it's practically game losing. He had dabbled with that danger on previous days but his positioning on me throughout the game has tended towards pocketing except for opportunistic stuff like "flash wagon to mac" which he can pass off as a joke but if it actually takes off he absolutely commits to but gets to share in blame.

His only paths as mafia there are to vote Falcon or LC... LC can be the default boring option I suppose. I'll review LC to see if I can rule it out.

[MacDougall]

Ama.

well I think one of us is skill issuing with jack cause I read his ISO and its very clearly town fmpov. I don't understand the associative you're throwing with falcon. yesterday, jack votes falcon, 'not married to it', but never returns to do anything else with that. I think bussing and then doing nothing with it, while *fine*, isn't how scum strategizes more often than not. the vote would come with *reasons* or whatever. the 'not married with it' would come with alternatives. you see what im saying?

why can't it just be LC?

No gims. A mafia voting a mafia and hedging like that isn't townie. That's standard operating procedure.

The mentality behind it is to put his vote there but also give town no confidence in following it.

Like this?

fine let's kill falcon

No LC not at all like that.

Jack literally said words to the effect of "I have no confidence in it". I quite visibly did not.

[MacDougall]

Nice timing LC... If you're mafia and your gameplan here is to go after me I'd advise you to consider an easier path to victory like pocketing me and helping me miselim Jack.

[MacDougall]

I can't really find any reason to townread LC. Which in an of itself probably spews him town tbh.

[gims]

That's very much a you problem because I'm very good at mafia so you should probably adapt not dismiss.

yes you are, and as such we share a very similar POE. the only difference being the presence of jack on yours.

I think the way you're interpreting the NAs and jack's talk about NAs misses context, basically. cause 1) we dont know what scum is thinking when they're performing kills most of the time and 2) you literally say that jack was trying to find a false flag for town to misflip with the whole NA talk, but thats a nonsequitur to jack's own posting, because he votes falcon! and you're eating your cake and having it too, imo. like. maybe you're right, I'm bad and new here.

[gims]

I also don't understand what about my play was antitown, but that doesnt matter, I suppose.

[Master Radishes]

I don't know whether falcon's flip means I'm right about Roxy, who's been my other scumlean, or I'm wrong because I got focused on her and could have easily missed falcon sneaking by.

[Master Radishes]

I've had back of mind concerns about LC being a deepwolf so will try to look into that. And Jack.

But it's late for an old man like me so I'll do it tomorrow (or perhaps in the middle of the night if the baby keeps me up).

[Long Con]

Nice timing LC... If you're mafia and your gameplan here is to go after me I'd advise you to consider an easier path to victory like pocketing me and helping me miselim Jack.

What if I'm Town and my gameplan is to go after you here? It's a hard path to victory, no doubt, but if I think you're Mafia then whatcha gonna do, right?

[MacDougall]

I also don't understand what about my play was antitown, but that doesnt matter, I suppose.

Oh like the results of it... wasnt implying you were being antitown in a toxic way.

You've been lovely. You've been trying.

[MacDougall]

Nice timing LC... If you're mafia and your gameplan here is to go after me I'd advise you to consider an easier path to victory like pocketing me and helping me miselim Jack.

What if I'm Town and my gameplan is to go after you here? It's a hard path to victory, no doubt, but if I think you're Mafia then whatcha gonna do, right?

I'm not mafia and I would hope that becomes apparent as we engage.

[MacDougall]

mac on fire here imo

mac, I'll vote whoever you want to vote

Oh mah gawsh, Mac I wuuuuv you



[VOTE: gims] aubergine



Hey, did you ghost vote me? Pourquoi

Article 1 of Falcon spewing me town.

[MacDougall]

When I pop into the thread I think 'who is that in the corner of my eye'.

Maybe it's falcon instead.

Maybe it's Maybelline



What's your take on Mac? He's been pushing you, and it feels like you kinda enjoy the locker he's trying to stuff you in



I don't know that I've seen you say much, if anything, about him. Why is that?

Article 2 with bonus MR spew

[MacDougall]

When I pop into the thread I think 'who is that in the corner of my eye'.

Maybe it's falcon instead.

Maybe it's Maybelline



What's your take on Mac? He's been pushing you, and it feels like you kinda enjoy the locker he's trying to stuff you in



I don't know that I've seen you say much, if anything, about him. Why is that?

I tend to wait a bit to read Mac. He becomes clearer by D3 ish imo. His push on me felt too confident at first and he's a bit one track mind, but I think I'd expect scum Mac to bounce around more by now to imitate his town game, leaving me to consider he might believe it.

Holy waffle take Bat-Man!



Zounds!

Article 3

[Master Radishes]

I could/will vote for:

gims
Radish
Mac

I think 3 baddies max bc of the 3P role and the town had a f'n stump that is the most useless town role ever written. Whoever dreamed that up had zero imagination.

I feel like Mac/Radishes are almost a....what do you call it? Difference check? One is scum and the other is town.

Gims is wolfy with Radishes, seeming very unwilling to vote there. That was the main reason I voted Radishes, because of Gims super not wanting Radishes dead, not because of anything Radishes actually did or said beyond the quadcomboposts.

@Master Radishes Jack trying to put us in a difference check here is mafia agenda to try to keep miselims in front of Falcon who was being too passive.

Difference check is the most overused and misused term in contemporary Mafia so for that alone I'm happy to kill him.

I don't really get why you and I are a different check anyway. We've not interacted much.

As I say I'll look tomorrow.

[MacDougall]

Sigh.

I see where LC is coming from but I also think we need to chop MR cuz I think the Wilgy c/w only rly makes sense if MR is mafia?

I don't even see "where I was coming from" there. The KJQ suspicion? The "we need more activity" gripe?

I don't think I said anything deep enough to warrant anyone trying sympathize my point if view, and I think you are suspicious fir it, you're working the room. Don't like it.

[VOTE: mac] aubergine

Leading the charge, eh?



Let's see what this does [VOTE: mac] aubergine



@MacDougall Let's go on a canoe ride

Article 4

[Master Radishes]

Or maybe I'll look now. Baby awake.

I've learned to play Mafia one handed on my phone whilst rocking a baby to sleep.

[MacDougall]

Long Con is like ... a boring but objectively impossible to argue with conclusion. For LC to be mafia both mafia decided to try to bumrush me yesterday and ended the day somehow with a pure town coalescing against them which like how good. Not a normal tactical choice for mafia to make but Falcon is not a level 1 thinker. He's a passive wolf but he doesn't play to a predictable playbook. So I can't really object to LC sus. Outside of that LC hasn't been towny in many places either.

I just think the Jack sus feels more ... I dunno ... standard operating procedure final wolf for a mafia game? There's effort to wolfside.. people who've been successfully pocketed. Distancing. It carries traits.

[MacDougall]

Or maybe I'll look now. Baby awake.

I've learned to play Mafia one handed on my phone whilst rocking a baby to sleep.

How cute. Grats on the bubba.

[Long Con]

I could/will vote for:

gims
Radish
Mac

I think 3 baddies max bc of the 3P role and the town had a f'n stump that is the most useless town role ever written. Whoever dreamed that up had zero imagination.

I feel like Mac/Radishes are almost a....what do you call it? Difference check? One is scum and the other is town.

Gims is wolfy with Radishes, seeming very unwilling to vote there. That was the main reason I voted Radishes, because of Gims super not wanting Radishes dead, not because of anything Radishes actually did or said beyond the quadcomboposts.

@Master Radishes Jack trying to put us in a difference check here is mafia agenda to try to keep miselims in front of Falcon who was being too passive.

Difference check is the most overused and misused term in contemporary Mafia so for that alone I'm happy to kill him.

I don't really get why you and I are a different check anyway. We've not interacted much.

As I say I'll look tomorrow.

The difference check thing is the only compelling evidence here. Articles 1 thru 3 look like standard distancing.

Following a rando vote on you, on a go-nowhere non-wagon, on the day he gets voted out as Mafia, is actually the literal example they give in the Distancing Textbook.

[MacDougall]

Part of me feels like LCs sus of me is somewhat genuine too. I can see a world in which he's sort of detached in a way where my still being alive and now suddenly posting a lot is just adding to suspicion he'd already vocalised and hasn't quite recognised yet that wolf Falcon sort of spewed me town by jumping on his suspicion.

That would be more likely to me than wolf Long Con doing this.

[Long Con]

Long Con is like ... a boring but objectively impossible to argue with conclusion. For LC to be mafia both mafia decided to try to bumrush me yesterday and ended the day somehow with a pure town coalescing against them which like how good. Not a normal tactical choice for mafia to make but Falcon is not a level 1 thinker. He's a passive wolf but he doesn't play to a predictable playbook. So I can't really object to LC sus. Outside of that LC hasn't been towny in many places either.

I just think the Jack sus feels more ... I dunno ... standard operating procedure final wolf for a mafia game? There's effort to wolfside.. people who've been successfully pocketed. Distancing. It carries traits.

Bumrush you? You mean cast a vote halfway through the Day, not try to push it, and not show up again until Night?

[Long Con]

Part of me feels like LCs sus of me is somewhat genuine too. I can see a world in which he's sort of detached in a way where my still being alive and now suddenly posting a lot is just adding to suspicion he'd already vocalised and hasn't quite recognised yet that wolf Falcon sort of spewed me town by jumping on his suspicion.

That would be more likely to me than wolf Long Con doing this.

There's no falcon post that spews you Town, every example you gave look like regular distancing.

[MacDougall]

I could/will vote for:

gims
Radish
Mac

I think 3 baddies max bc of the 3P role and the town had a f'n stump that is the most useless town role ever written. Whoever dreamed that up had zero imagination.

I feel like Mac/Radishes are almost a....what do you call it? Difference check? One is scum and the other is town.

Gims is wolfy with Radishes, seeming very unwilling to vote there. That was the main reason I voted Radishes, because of Gims super not wanting Radishes dead, not because of anything Radishes actually did or said beyond the quadcomboposts.

@Master Radishes Jack trying to put us in a difference check here is mafia agenda to try to keep miselims in front of Falcon who was being too passive.

Difference check is the most overused and misused term in contemporary Mafia so for that alone I'm happy to kill him.

I don't really get why you and I are a different check anyway. We've not interacted much.

As I say I'll look tomorrow.

The difference check thing is the only compelling evidence here. Articles 1 thru 3 look like standard distancing.

Following a rando vote on you, on a go-nowhere non-wagon, on the day he gets voted out as Mafia, is actually the literal example they give in the Distancing Textbook.

You voting me and the mafia taking a queue to vote me at the opportune moment when the momentum towards my death is at its apex is not how to distance. It's how to kill. Do you think wolf Falcon genuinely wants wolf Mac dead?

[MacDougall]

Part of me feels like LCs sus of me is somewhat genuine too. I can see a world in which he's sort of detached in a way where my still being alive and now suddenly posting a lot is just adding to suspicion he'd already vocalised and hasn't quite recognised yet that wolf Falcon sort of spewed me town by jumping on his suspicion.

That would be more likely to me than wolf Long Con doing this.

There's no falcon post that spews you Town, every example you gave look like regular distancing.

Falcon voted me after you and left it there all day. His and your vote put me in a situation where if the town were so compelled I'd be dead. Falcon didn't distance if I'm Mafia he bussed. And bussing me the way he did there is game losing. Why would Falcon my wolf teammate think the objective wolf wincon there is to bus me and try to carry himself?

Nonsense.

[Master Radishes]

Oh man, yeah, falcon and Jack can totally be paired.

Not quoting cuz one hand baby rocking etc, but there's like a sequence of three or so posts in Jack's iso that sure look like a partner trying to discuss their chopping block mate without committing to anything.

[Master Radishes]

If anybody is willing to do GTH top 3 reads it would be appreciated.

Mine for baddies:

radish
gims
Mac? Not really feeling this as strong as the others

I'm your huckleberry,



GTH Maf: MR, Mac, Jack



GTH Town: Roxy, KJ, LC



Talk to me about gims, what's behind your read?

I could easily kill Falcon too. Throw Gims and MR and him together and call it my solve. Falcon doesn't arbitrarily throw my name in his solve like this. He's also not making a read on Gims which makes me think he's only got one mafia in his maf solve.

Me struggling to get out of my "just ignore falcon at all turns because every time I yeet him, it's a miselim" stage. Cause this makes a lot of sense but I still hate it.

Nvm quoting but lazily.

This is 1.

[Master Radishes]

Maybe I just ignore Falcon/Mac and vote in Radishes/Gims

2.

[Master Radishes]

I think this is all going to come down to kill equity. Like there are posts from Radishes and Mac that look townie. If Radishes is town, then my reasons for suspecting Gims don't really apply.

Is there a world where Mac and Radishes are both town? It would basically mean Falcon + one of my townreads or Falcon + Gims, who trips and looks like a wolf partner to Radishes, a townie.

I don't like any of these worlds.

If Mac is the wolf, is that different partnerwise than Falcon being the wolf? Not really. Maybe my unstated view of Falcon/Mac not being the wolfteam is too hasty cause its based on nothing but Mac being like "okay lets yeet Falcon." But like now that I say it out loud, it seems silly for wolf Mac to give up on misyeeting in Radishes/Jack and bus Falcon. It does come after Radishes makes his towniest posts but those posts aren't aimed at Falcon. They're aimed at Roxy.

3.

A fuck ton of words that goes nowhere.

[MacDougall]

Think past level 1 and imagine a world where Falcon and I are mafia IN THIS GAME.

How does both of our day 3 play make sense? Knowing what you know about how both of us play?

First and foremost I have zero need to bus him. And to do so in a blunt way where I've established no credibility decreases my wincon versus just continuing to vote MR. I can easily get MR over, maybe even Roxy if I want to flip to hard siding with MR. I could probably even get you over. But instead of any of those options I lazily vote out my wolf teammate? Cmon.

And then Falcon, the passive team member... decides to jump on me after ostensibly town LC votes me, putting me in danger of elimination too?

This makes zero sense as mafia agenda for me and you'd have to wilfully ignore everything you know about me to make argument to the contrary.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine but I'm not married to it.

4


After all his prevarication he does vote but still leaves an out.

[Master Radishes]

Whole way through he's looking to build himself an avenue away from falcon.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

[gims]

I see, so its going to be a LC/jack counterwagon moment and one of us gets to say I told you so tomorrow

I'm fine with that outcome

@LC: I don't understand why you scumlean mac. he seems very genuine in his pushes.

[gims]

roxy still just hardcore tunneled on radishes is somewhat earnestly towny

[gims]

I understand the jack posts look bad. I'm not fighting this flip. but imo its really just LC.

[Master Radishes]

roxy still just hardcore tunneled on radishes is somewhat earnestly towny

Probably

Spoiler: show

but in a 3 wolf world I think she still fits

[MacDougall]

I understand the jack posts look bad. I'm not fighting this flip. but imo its really just LC.

@Long Con I think your interest would make more sense to be in debating your alignment with gims than mine with me.

[MacDougall]

roxy still just hardcore tunneled on radishes is somewhat earnestly towny

Probably

Spoiler: show

but in a 3 wolf world I think she still fits

Does anything particularly rule out the 3 wolf world?

And/or in that world does LC/Jack not make sense either?

[Master Radishes]

I understand the jack posts look bad. I'm not fighting this flip. but imo its really just LC.

I'll take a look tomorrow at this too. I can see it.

But man when I read those jack posts about falcon (that I quoted) it was like a lightbulb going off in my head.

[Master Radishes]

roxy still just hardcore tunneled on radishes is somewhat earnestly towny

Probably

Spoiler: show

but in a 3 wolf world I think she still fits

Does anything particularly rule out the 3 wolf world?

And/or in that world does LC/Jack not make sense either?

I think it's probably 3. Others have raised the idea of 2 so I'll acknowledge it as a possibility.

Could be LC, sure.

[MacDougall]

Fwiw I was comfortable with just voting out MR yesterday and the only reason MR is even alive right now is because I decided to vote out Falcon instead.

If I was a wolf MR is not alive right now. The table was absolutely set for his miselim in Mac wolf worlds and I threw it away to not only save him but also kill my teammate. Not happening.

Argue that fact all you want but if I come back at the time I switched to Falcon and instead just insisted we had to resolve MR... MR is dead regardless of his remonstrations.

[gims]

mac is town

LC's push on mac doesn't come from any solvey angle

I can see it being jack, but mostly due to awkward phrasing and whatnot. to be honest, I'm townreading roxy way more than I should and it's almost embarrassing to me how certain I feel abt her being town for the flimsiest things but its definitely where I'm at. the rest is townies.

so. okay. I can give it in to maybe jack playing what feels to me like a fantastic game of scum pushing all the right buttons to get to endgame

or we have just LC? not being very town at all. we can debate