Death Note Mafia [END]

[Turnip Head]

Like Epi said, it's odd that Boo didn't feel comfortable defending Trice on the chance that he flipped bad, but has no qualms defending Snowman, after he says he wants to lynch low posters.

I'm not so sure I understand what Trice has to do with this. Is there a link I am missing?

Boo said he would have defended Trice but didn't want to look bad if Trice flipped bad.

[Black Rock]

Like Epi said, it's odd that Boo didn't feel comfortable defending Trice on the chance that he flipped bad, but has no qualms defending Snowman, after he says he wants to lynch low posters.

I'm not so sure I understand what Trice has to do with this. Is there a link I am missing?

Boo said he would have defended Trice but didn't want to look bad if Trice flipped bad.

Oh, I missed that entirely. Is this exact words or TH's version?

[boo]

Like Epi said, it's odd that Boo didn't feel comfortable defending Trice on the chance that he flipped bad, but has no qualms defending Snowman, after he says he wants to lynch low posters.

I'm not so sure I understand what Trice has to do with this. Is there a link I am missing?

Boo said he would have defended Trice but didn't want to look bad if Trice flipped bad.

And I also said Trice was actually there to defend himself. But leaving out relevant details (or any details) is what you're all about this game, so I guess I can't be surprised.

[Turnip Head]

Like Epi said, it's odd that Boo didn't feel comfortable defending Trice on the chance that he flipped bad, but has no qualms defending Snowman, after he says he wants to lynch low posters.

I don't feel comfortable with someone attributing an oversimplification to me, especially if that someone has voted already.

If I had another non-llama vote to cast today, it might be going to Boo. I thought I understood and agreed with your point, please clarify if you'd like.

Linki: it's the TH version, but I can find it.

[Epignosis]

Like Epi said, it's odd that Boo didn't feel comfortable defending Trice on the chance that he flipped bad, but has no qualms defending Snowman, after he says he wants to lynch low posters.

I don't feel comfortable with someone attributing an oversimplification to me, especially if that someone has voted already.

If I had another non-llama vote to cast today, it might be going to Boo. I thought I understood and agreed with your point, please clarify if you'd like.

Linki: it's the TH version, but I can find it.

All I mean is that I find boo's interaction with my thoughts more nuanced that the way you distilled it, and that you've attributed that distillation entirely to me (such as in case boo gets lynched and is good) is shady to me.

[Epignosis]

*than

[Turnip Head]

This is the snipped portion of the boo post I'm talking about. Yes, boo also mentions that Trice didn't need defending because he was defending himself. I still feel like something doesn't add up, but idk.

My big problem with the Snowman stuff is that it already looks like there's a bandwagon forming against him, and seeing as how that went so poorly with Trice (who I didn't step in for because he was actually defending himself and I don't like to try and help people in the early game since if they're lynched and bad that somehow makes me bad for doubting a pretty shaky case), I think people who don't agree and aren't looking to bandwagon him need to actual make an effort to stop that from happening and engage. I think people who are considering voting him, and are civvies (so not looking to bandwagon) also need to be challenged before it becomes the easy and safe choice.

linki @Epi: I was just giving you credit where it was due since you brought it up first, but I obviously simplified the argument. I apologize.

[birdwithteeth11]

Honestly, I can understand both sides of the Snowman argument. I can understand wanting to give him a pass given that he is still relatively new to mafia and this is only his second game. On the other hand, I can also understand that he has extensive knowledge with social mind-based games such as mafia, and he doesn't strike me as a fool. I think he's well aware of what he's doing.

My main reason I don't have a read on Snowman yet is because I tend to read people based off of what they say (as in, I like being able to pull quotes in order to build cases). And given there's not much of that going on with Snowman, I'm not entirely sure what to think of him yet. In other words, I need to see him talking more to develop a better opinion on him.

Linki

Linki again

[Turnip Head]

In fairness to Snowman this is an incredibly complex game, even by our standards, and I can understand not having found your footing yet.

[S~V~S]

In fairness to Snowman this is an incredibly complex game, even by our standards, and I can understand not having found your footing yet.

I have to agree with this, it is why I was a bit taken aback by the Zombarella suspicions a few people had during the first lynch. I am somewhat intimidated by this thread (although after playing with her in Donneer, I doubt Zomba is afeared of anything) myself, so for someone new, i could imageine this might be overwhelming.

I just caught up to my other two threads, am gonna heat up the pizza, and catch up to this one. This post is a bookmark.

[Black Rock]

Honestly, I can understand both sides of the Snowman argument. I can understand wanting to give him a pass given that he is still relatively new to mafia and this is only his second game. On the other hand, I can also understand that he has extensive knowledge with social mind-based games such as mafia, and he doesn't strike me as a fool. I think he's well aware of what he's doing.

My main reason I don't have a read on Snowman yet is because I tend to read people based off of what they say (as in, I like being able to pull quotes in order to build cases). And given there's not much of that going on with Snowman, I'm not entirely sure what to think of him yet. In other words, I need to see him talking more to develop a better opinion on him.

Linki

Linki again

At this point I don't think he's being given a pass. It's way too early and not much to see to even think of him as bad. I'm certainly not going to make excuses or defend his actions, I just don't think his actions warrant a lynch.

This is the snipped portion of the boo post I'm talking about. Yes, boo also mentions that Trice didn't need defending because he was defending himself. I still feel like something doesn't add up, but idk.

My big problem with the Snowman stuff is that it already looks like there's a bandwagon forming against him, and seeing as how that went so poorly with Trice (who I didn't step in for because he was actually defending himself and I don't like to try and help people in the early game since if they're lynched and bad that somehow makes me bad for doubting a pretty shaky case), I think people who don't agree and aren't looking to bandwagon him need to actual make an effort to stop that from happening and engage. I think people who are considering voting him, and are civvies (so not looking to bandwagon) also need to be challenged before it becomes the easy and safe choice.

linki @Epi: I was just giving you credit where it was due since you brought it up first, but I obviously simplified the argument. I apologize.

That doesn't read as bad as I thought it would. I get what he's saying here. I'm going to read Boo now and form my own opinion. Like I said he has tweaked me but I'm wondering how much of that has been from reading other peoples posts and how much is from his posts.

[Turnip Head]

I have to agree BR, on reread I found it a lot less questionable than I originally thought

[Black Rock]

I have to agree BR, on reread I found it a lot less questionable than I originally thought

That happens.

[boo]

I was going under the impression we had all realized but decided not discuss the obvious TH being a baddie thing, but it seems like people are still taking him seriously for some reason, so I'm just going to put it out there.

Ryuk – A shinigami who appears to Light shortly after he discovers his Death Note, Ryuk explains that he has to stay with Light until he either dies or the Death Note is destroyed, and that he ‘dropped’ the Death Note into the human world because he was bored. As a shinigami, he cannot be harmed by humans, nor can he be seen by humans who have not made contact with his Death Note. Oh, and he loves apples. Has BTSC with Light Yagami. Because he is a shinigami, votes by humans in lynches do not affect him, and writing his name down in a Death Note will not kill him. Thus, he cannot be lynched or night killed. However, if he is about to be killed for the second time, although he will still not die, his existence will be made aware to everyone, outing him. Even though Ryuk refuses to take sides and often finds pleasure at Light’s misfortunes, he accompanies Light, and even may assist him. Once Raye Penber has started following Light, Ryuk offers Light the Shinigami Eye deal. If Light takes the offer, Light can role check two players every night but he must kill one of those two players. If Light currently cannot kill with a Death Note, he cannot role check anyone. Because the Eye Deal cuts his lifespan, all votes against Light in lynches will be doubled for the remainder of the game. If Light refuses the Eye Deal, he still may change his mind and accept it later at any time.

There's an unkillable baddie. No win condition actually includes needing this role (or there other two shinigami's, assuming they are also both unkillable), so I guess them being unkillable sort of makes sense.

But... I mean come on, does anyone really want to argue that this isn't TH's role and that he's already made it obvious? I imagine he began acting like he did D1 hoping to waste a lynch or two as we tried to kill him and failed, but with the role reveal it seems pretty obvious that this is his role (or one similar to it).

Of course, I'd be 100% ok with lynching him today to test it, but I'm also almost certain it would be a waste of a lynch so what's the point?

Anyways, there seem to be people still taking what he says seriously, so I figured the easiest way to explain why I won't be is to just put it out there.

[DharmaHelper]

Actually votes by other Shinigami would kill Ryuk and the other Shinigami if, say for example, the vote was unanimous.

[Turnip Head]

You hit the nail right on the head, boo. If I'm Ryuk, then there's no reason to waste a lynch on me.

[DharmaHelper]

Actually votes by other Shinigami would kill Ryuk and the other Shinigami if, say for example, the vote was unanimous.

Nah I was wrong. I read "Votes by humans do not affect him" and did not think about the rest.

[DharmaHelper]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

[Turnip Head]

Anything's possible... but if one is fake, they're probably all fake. They are remarkably similar, except the Matsuda one.

[boo]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

Unless any of them stand out as not being accurate to the story, I'm not sure that would make sense. If playing the game doesn't require knowledge, and roles are randomized, then the role that can reveal fake role secrets given to a person not familiar with the story is at a disadvantage. and the person familiar would be at an advantage. Even if MP gave the person multiple options instead of making them come up with it, one option would be the 'more right' one, so the dis/advantage would still exist.

[Black Rock]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

[DharmaHelper]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

A lore based assumption.

[boo]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

A lore based assumption.

Would you like to be more vague please?

[Turnip Head]

I think he's alluding to the fake rules written in one of the Death Notes from the show.

[DharmaHelper]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

A lore based assumption.

Would you like to be more vague please?

In the show, at some point someone adds fake rules to a Death Note. Death Notes come with "rules" on like the first page that dictate how to use one.

[Boomslang]

You hit the nail right on the head, boo. If I'm Ryuk, then there's no reason to waste a lynch on me.

But we don't know for sure, and the role secrets say that two attempted kills will out Ryuk. That wouldn't be wasted effort, imo; we'd have eliminated the possibility of that role for other people, and we'd know that your words going forward shouldn't be trusted. In short, I don't like that defense...

[S~V~S]

For no reason at all other than I had the time to do it, I made a purely subjective listing of all the players in the game and organized it into what sort of role they all are playing in the thread. The roles are "Case Maker" (a player who makes cases against and lobbies heavily for lynching their suspects), "Thinker" (a player who considers others' opinions and POVs, and reacts to Case Makers), "Natural Suspect" (a player whose behavior is deemed overtly suspicious, and this fact has contributed to their gameplay in a meaningful way), and "Elusive" (a player who makes no effort to be recognized for their gameplay). Players may be in more than one category. I have also ranked players according to how much each has contributed to the role, from greatest or most substantial contributions to least. Ranking takes into account a player's post count as well as the content of those posts, as determined by me. I have also included myself in these rankings, to further exemplify that this is completely subjective.

Case Makers
1. DharmaHelper
2. Epignosis
3. boo
4. AceofSpaces
5. birdwithteeth11
6. FZ
7. thellama73

Thinkers
1. bea
2. juliets
3. FZ.
4. S~V~S
5. Ricochet
6. thellama73
7. MetalMarsh89
8. DharmaHelper
9. boo
10. Zomberella12
11. Turnip Head
12. Elohcin
13. Black Rock
14. Epignosis
15. Matahari
16. Long Con
79. Spacedaisy
18. AceofSpaces
19. birdwithteeth11
20. Bass_the_clever
21. Made
22. Boomslang
23. Snowman
24. Russtifinko
25. Roxy/Zeek (not enough data tbh)
26. Disgruntled Porcupine

Elusive
1. DisgruntledPorcupine - general lack of participation
2. Russtifinko - unwilling to talk about his silence
3. Turnip Head - a degree of unwillingness to explain his votes
4. Epignosis - a degree of unwillingness to explain his non-vote for Russ

I am in the middle of catching up, and am doing an "as I go along" catch up post, but I have to say, TH, that I really love this. Sometimes Case Makers suspects thinkers for not being Case Makers, when all it really is is that they have a different way of playing than the case makers. I am a sucky casemaker, but a pretty good thinker. Sometimes.

[Epignosis]

For no reason at all other than I had the time to do it, I made a purely subjective listing of all the players in the game and organized it into what sort of role they all are playing in the thread. The roles are "Case Maker" (a player who makes cases against and lobbies heavily for lynching their suspects), "Thinker" (a player who considers others' opinions and POVs, and reacts to Case Makers), "Natural Suspect" (a player whose behavior is deemed overtly suspicious, and this fact has contributed to their gameplay in a meaningful way), and "Elusive" (a player who makes no effort to be recognized for their gameplay). Players may be in more than one category. I have also ranked players according to how much each has contributed to the role, from greatest or most substantial contributions to least. Ranking takes into account a player's post count as well as the content of those posts, as determined by me. I have also included myself in these rankings, to further exemplify that this is completely subjective.

Case Makers
1. DharmaHelper
2. Epignosis
3. boo
4. AceofSpaces
5. birdwithteeth11
6. FZ
7. thellama73

Thinkers
1. bea
2. juliets
3. FZ.
4. S~V~S
5. Ricochet
6. thellama73
7. MetalMarsh89
8. DharmaHelper
9. boo
10. Zomberella12
11. Turnip Head
12. Elohcin
13. Black Rock
14. Epignosis
15. Matahari
16. Long Con
79. Spacedaisy
18. AceofSpaces
19. birdwithteeth11
20. Bass_the_clever
21. Made
22. Boomslang
23. Snowman
24. Russtifinko
25. Roxy/Zeek (not enough data tbh)
26. Disgruntled Porcupine

Elusive
1. DisgruntledPorcupine - general lack of participation
2. Russtifinko - unwilling to talk about his silence
3. Turnip Head - a degree of unwillingness to explain his votes
4. Epignosis - a degree of unwillingness to explain his non-vote for Russ

I am in the middle of catching up, and am doing an "as I go along" catch up post, but I have to say, TH, that I really love this. Sometimes Case Makers suspects thinkers for not being Case Makers, when all it really is is that they have a different way of playing than the case makers. I am a sucky casemaker, but a pretty good thinker. Sometimes.

Yeah, well...keep reading.

[Turnip Head]

I was really hoping people would jump in with their own lists but the idea didn't catch on.

[Black Rock]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

A lore based assumption.

Would you like to be more vague please?

In the show, at some point someone adds fake rules to a Death Note. Death Notes come with "rules" on like the first page that dictate how to use one.

Ok, I know nothing of the show but aren't death notes different from the roles?

[Epignosis]

I was really hoping people would jump in with their own lists but the idea didn't catch on.

Because it's a pointless distraction.

[DharmaHelper]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

A lore based assumption.

Would you like to be more vague please?

In the show, at some point someone adds fake rules to a Death Note. Death Notes come with "rules" on like the first page that dictate how to use one.

Ok, I know nothing of the show but aren't death notes different from the roles?

My thought process was, continuing the thought that MP would put as much of the show as possible into the game, the best way to incorporate the rules/fake rules of the Death Notes was to use it on role secrets.

[DharmaHelper]

EBWOP: Though I can see MP bashing his keyboard on the table shouting "Why the fuck did I not think of that"

[Turnip Head]

You hit the nail right on the head, boo. If I'm Ryuk, then there's no reason to waste a lynch on me.

But we don't know for sure, and the role secrets say that two attempted kills will out Ryuk. That wouldn't be wasted effort, imo; we'd have eliminated the possibility of that role for other people, and we'd know that your words going forward shouldn't be trusted. In short, I don't like that defense...

It would be wasted. I'm not Ryuk, or any baddie for that matter, so I hope you trust my words going forward... but lynching me for being this role would be unproductive. If you think I'm Ryuk, you should just ignore me.

[Ricochet]

Don't know why, but I don't think TH is a Ryuk/Shinigami-player. I already replied this to BWT. Why would TH (or any Shinigami-player) out himself in advance of being outed by two failed lynches/kills?

[Black Rock]

Something I want others' opinions on:

What do we think of the idea that some of these role secrets could be faked?

What makes you say that?

A lore based assumption.

Would you like to be more vague please?

In the show, at some point someone adds fake rules to a Death Note. Death Notes come with "rules" on like the first page that dictate how to use one.

Ok, I know nothing of the show but aren't death notes different from the roles?

My thought process was, continuing the thought that MP would put as much of the show as possible into the game, the best way to incorporate the rules/fake rules of the Death Notes was to use it on role secrets.

I hope that's not the case.

I am still reading Boo in the other tab. It's taking me forever.

[Epignosis]

boo is 75% boob.

Just pointing that out.

[Black Rock]

boo is 75% boob.

Just pointing that out.

For a second I thought I typed boob in my post. Nope, just you being you.

[boo]

Don't know why, but I don't think TH is a Ryuk/Shinigami-player. I already replied this to BWT. Why would TH (or any Shinigami-player) out himself in advance of being outed by two failed lynches/kills?

Well, before the role secret was revealed, it would have been a great way for him to get us to waste multiple lynches.

Then it was revealed. At first I thought he was X Kira (and that he was following his daily routine with the votes), but before making a case I asked MP if there was anything more to the roles (only the possibility of win conditions, I assume that was in reference to the 3rd Kira not having a know win condition and also not having it revealed in the secret), which meant the daily schedule was just flavour. So, at least if we want to base how he's been acting on a role (and that's what I do), I think he must be Ryuk (or at least a shingami assuming they all share the same base set of abilities).

[Turnip Head]

How have my actions so far lined up with Ryuk's abilities? It's odd, you aren't the only one who made this conclusion, but I guess the revealed secrets prompted that reaction in some folks.

[S~V~S]

Mata is completely wrong about civvies being more careful than baddies and she has also apparently never played a game with me before.

FZ, I still suspect Turnip Head, albeit slightly less than I did yesterday, but I think it is necessary to rattle Snowman out of his cocoon of barely posting, non-serious hijinks before the trail goes cold. He is the person I most suspect today, so that is why he got my vote. I voted early in order to make a splash and get people talking about him, which I think needs to happen more.

I also like your suspicion of Bea. That kind of posting always pings me too.

I agree re Mata, I also think baddies are more careful, I know I am much more careful when I am bad. As for Mata, I think she is incredibly careful regardless of alignment. She is one of the scariest players, imo, when she is not on my side. Not so sure about the rest yet, maybe by the end of this post, I will be.

For the curious, here is the Snowman post that Rico is referencing, as framed by Rico himself:

This is his problematic post, the last part especially, if you ask me.

Thank you Zomberella and SVS. I have no idea if either of you are bad or not, but you boiled down your take on all the players in one post, and I appreciate it. I frankly don't have the time to comb through a couple hundred episodes of "Trice Yells at Everyone" every day. I'll offer my insight and contribute what I can, but I don't see the "discussion" coalescing around anyone in particular. All I see is argument ad nauseum around the D0 poll.

I'm happy to see so many involved, but how do you find so much to talk about when literally nothing has happened yet? The most earth-shattering event so far is the realization that Russ hasn't posted anything.

Even if ignorant or uninvolved, it still made me very wary.

I think maybe that that depends on ones idea of "nothing happened". Alot of talking happened, but no lynches or NKs or night powers, which is how I read this post. Day one, nothing happened yet. I think this is a fairly weak reason to suspect someone, tbh.

For those who cannot see TH's avatar

Ha ha ha sometimes you are my favorite person

I've seen DP on the site. In fact, I see him viewing the thread right this very minute.

I'm here. I've had my browser open with the page up but I'm not really reading at this moment because I'm working on a rather intense college assignment.

Then how did you see your name mentioned so quickly?

Ha ha, I thought the same thing, the time stamp says it was five minutes.

You know nothing, Llama Seventy-Three.

It is known

I think people generally put too much stock in the idea of someone newer being "coached" in the thread. In my experience, it rarely happens. To suggest that Snowman is NOT in BTSC because of the lack of coaching on "bandwagon" is not something I would ever consider a reasonable assumption. Even if he had BTSC, I doubt that he would run everything he says through the chat before he posts it.

Totally. I never coach nubs in that way. Maybe sometimes with civ BTS nubs, but never with baddies.

Yes, the quote you pulled doesn't add up. She said she wants to talk about him and that she wasn't ready to vote for him.

NO HER

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

It means in a discussion about Snowman, you highlight something Zomberella said to shift discussion to her. That's fine. I thought I was just being clever.

I did not think he as trying to shift to her, I thought he was demonstrating a point by using her quote?

For no reason at all other than I had the time to do it, I made a purely subjective listing of all the players in the game and organized it into what sort of role they all are playing in the thread. The roles are "Case Maker" (a player who makes cases against and lobbies heavily for lynching their suspects), "Thinker" (a player who considers others' opinions and POVs, and reacts to Case Makers), "Natural Suspect" (a player whose behavior is deemed overtly suspicious, and this fact has contributed to their gameplay in a meaningful way), and "Elusive" (a player who makes no effort to be recognized for their gameplay). Players may be in more than one category. I have also ranked players according to how much each has contributed to the role, from greatest or most substantial contributions to least. Ranking takes into account a player's post count as well as the content of those posts, as determined by me. I have also included myself in these rankings, to further exemplify that this is completely subjective.

Case Makers
1. DharmaHelper
2. Epignosis
3. boo
4. AceofSpaces
5. birdwithteeth11
6. FZ
7. thellama73

Thinkers
1. bea
2. juliets
3. FZ.
4. S~V~S
5. Ricochet
6. thellama73
7. MetalMarsh89
8. DharmaHelper
9. boo
10. Zomberella12
11. Turnip Head
12. Elohcin
13. Black Rock
14. Epignosis
15. Matahari
16. Long Con
79. Spacedaisy
18. AceofSpaces
19. birdwithteeth11
20. Bass_the_clever
21. Made
22. Boomslang
23. Snowman
24. Russtifinko
25. Roxy/Zeek (not enough data tbh)
26. Disgruntled Porcupine

Elusive
1. DisgruntledPorcupine - general lack of participation
2. Russtifinko - unwilling to talk about his silence
3. Turnip Head - a degree of unwillingness to explain his votes
4. Epignosis - a degree of unwillingness to explain his non-vote for Russ

I am in the middle of catching up, and am doing an "as I go along" catch up post, but I have to say, TH, that I really love this. Sometimes Case Makers suspects thinkers for not being Case Makers, when all it really is is that they have a different way of playing than the case makers. I am a sucky casemaker, but a pretty good thinker. Sometimes.

Yeah, well...keep reading.

I did. I still like it, even if TH is potentially an unlynchable evil person, this list is still pretty awesome

I was really hoping people would jump in with their own lists but the idea didn't catch on.

Because it's a pointless distraction.

A pointless distraction from what? Listening to Alpha Males bash each other for hours on end? I like lists, and I think understanding how people play has value. Even if the listmaker turns out to be a very bad person.

Don't know why, but I don't think TH is a Ryuk/Shinigami-player. I already replied this to BWT. Why would TH (or any Shinigami-player) out himself in advance of being outed by two failed lynches/kills?

Good Point.

boo is 75% boob.

Just pointing that out.

And now I have to go do family stuff. Then read further back later, I seem to have totally missed the Bea case, I only saw allusions to it but not the meat of the thing.

[boo]

I didn't pull up the Zomba quote SVS, Epi did. And then I read the quote. And what Epi said the quote said and what the quote said were not the same.

[Ricochet]

For the curious, here is the Snowman post that Rico is referencing, as framed by Rico himself:

This is his problematic post, the last part especially, if you ask me.

Thank you Zomberella and SVS. I have no idea if either of you are bad or not, but you boiled down your take on all the players in one post, and I appreciate it. I frankly don't have the time to comb through a couple hundred episodes of "Trice Yells at Everyone" every day. I'll offer my insight and contribute what I can, but I don't see the "discussion" coalescing around anyone in particular. All I see is argument ad nauseum around the D0 poll.

I'm happy to see so many involved, but how do you find so much to talk about when literally nothing has happened yet? The most earth-shattering event so far is the realization that Russ hasn't posted anything.

Even if ignorant or uninvolved, it still made me very wary.

I think maybe that that depends on ones idea of "nothing happened". Alot of talking happened, but no lynches or NKs or night powers, which is how I read this post. Day one, nothing happened yet. I think this is a fairly weak reason to suspect someone, tbh.

Can't say I agree. All the talking was purposefully heated, as we debated and decided a likely permanent voting strategy. A controversial voting strategy was close to being chosen as the main one and, even if it wasn't, it divided players a lot anyway. All in all, if Snowman's mentality was to wait until lynches or killing or powers started happening, he was pretty alone in this mentality. It's also the definition of laying low on purpose.

[S~V~S]

Oh OK, thanks boo. But I think my point still stands, I don't think you were trying to shift anything.

Li ki @ Rico, I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[Epignosis]

I was really hoping people would jump in with their own lists but the idea didn't catch on.

Because it's a pointless distraction.

A pointless distraction from what? Listening to Alpha Males bash each other for hours on end? I like lists, and I think understanding how people play has value. Even if the listmaker turns out to be a very bad person.

Was that what was going on on Day 2? If so, then I missed it.

[thellama73]

Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

[boo]

Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

A reasonable person would wait until they have to actually vote or risk missing the vote before deciding the person isn't going to respond.

[thellama73]

Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

A reasonable person would wait until they have to actually vote or risk missing the vote before deciding the person isn't going to respond.

So your contention is that Snowman "has not had the chance to respond" until the very moment of the poll closing? Surely you can see that this is madness.

[DharmaHelper]

Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

A reasonable person would wait until they have to actually vote or risk missing the vote before deciding the person isn't going to respond.

So your contention is that Snowman "has not had the chance to respond" until the very moment of the poll closing? Surely you can see that this is madness.

No this is Patrick

[boo]

Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

A reasonable person would wait until they have to actually vote or risk missing the vote before deciding the person isn't going to respond.

So your contention is that Snowman "has not had the chance to respond" until the very moment of the poll closing? Surely you can see that this is madness.

If a potential voter is there right before the poll closes? Yes. If you have to vote 5 hours before it closes, then 5 hours is the answer. 24, 24, Etc, etc.

Unless we know for a fact he is here and is just choosing not to respond, he hasn't had the chance to respond. And since he and Zomba have both not posted in quite sometime, and it is friday night, it seems perfectly reasonable to say they just haven't been here today or tonight, which is why neither of them have posted.

I'm not sure what part of this is difficult to understand.