Death Note Mafia [END]

[Turnip Head]

I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

[FZ.]

@Rico: No and I think that might have been a joke on FZ's part. I no longer believe X Kira's strict schedule has any bearing on his role's abilities.

lots of linki

Yeah, it was. But using orange would have taken all the fun out of it

[juliets]

Epi, you said you had more to say. Please finish your thought regardless of what people are saying.

Hey, I'm not stopping him. I've read everything and asked him questions about it.

Yes I know. It was my impression he wasn't finished with his thought yet and was building a Part II and I wanted him to finish and not be waylaid by the questions until the thought was complete. Given his answer though it looks like he might be done with that point or at least he didn't continue it quickly like I thought he would do so I just misjudged what he was saying.

[Epignosis]

I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

It burns lynches. If you don't need a role out to win, it's a lost opportunity. Simple math. You only have so many lynches to get it right before you lose.

[thellama73]

@Rico: No and I think that might have been a joke on FZ's part. I no longer believe X Kira's strict schedule has any bearing on his role's abilities.

lots of linki

Yeah, it was. But using orange would have taken all the fun out of it

[Turnip Head]

I was expecting a Part II as well, but now I worry that it will just be more Yotsuba propaganda

[Ricochet]

I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

But Higuchi is unlynchable until he gains the DN, so lynching players we believe are Yotsuba but can't rule out as Higuchi doesn't truly serve the purpose you mention. If it lands on Higuchi, then the lynch is wasted.

[Turnip Head]

Not completely wasted, we'd get some info from a failed lynch, but I see your point. I forgot he was unkillable before he gets his Death Note.

[Marmot]

I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

And since we can't lynch Higuchi until/if he gets a death note, it would be pointless to pursue it now. The way I see it, the Yotsuba are a dormant group of neutral players right now.

[Epignosis]

@Rico: No and I think that might have been a joke on FZ's part. I no longer believe X Kira's strict schedule has any bearing on his role's abilities.

lots of linki

Yeah, it was. But using orange would have taken all the fun out of it

Oh. I thought the accusation was real.

[Turnip Head]

Well then like FZ said at one point, if Yotsuba starts killing we can reopen this can of worms.

[Ricochet]

Not completely wasted, we'd get some info from a failed lynch, but I see your point. I forgot he was unkillable before he gets his Death Note.

We get info, but can't pinpoint it towards being Higuchi or any other potential unlynchable role, unless all the other unlynchable roles (such as Ryuk) have already outed themselves.

[FZ.]

I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

And since we can't lynch Higuchi until/if he gets a death note, it would be pointless to pursue it now. The way I see it, the Yotsuba are a dormant group of neutral players right now.

Will we get a memo when he gets the DN? Or do we see it in the kills? Does it mean that when he does, we have more than one kill per night?

[Ricochet]

I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

And since we can't lynch Higuchi until/if he gets a death note, it would be pointless to pursue it now. The way I see it, the Yotsuba are a dormant group of neutral players right now.

Will we get a memo when he gets the DN? Or do we see it in the kills? Does it mean that when he does, we have more than one kill per night?

It's very hard to speculate how many Kiras will possess DN's at the same time, because it's just that: rampant speculation based on the canon of the theme.

[FZ.]

@Rico: No and I think that might have been a joke on FZ's part. I no longer believe X Kira's strict schedule has any bearing on his role's abilities.

lots of linki

Yeah, it was. But using orange would have taken all the fun out of it

Oh. I thought the accusation was real.

[Turnip Head]

I doubt MP will give us any clues as to who is killing, but the frequency of the kills might give us some clues. For instance, we've already had one Kira kill on Night 2. Will we have another?

[FZ.]

I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

And since we can't lynch Higuchi until/if he gets a death note, it would be pointless to pursue it now. The way I see it, the Yotsuba are a dormant group of neutral players right now.

Will we get a memo when he gets the DN? Or do we see it in the kills? Does it mean that when he does, we have more than one kill per night?

It's very hard to speculate how many Kiras will possess DN's at the same time, because it's just that: rampant speculation based on the canon of the theme.

So basically it's possible that all 4 will have them simultaneously? Maybe Epi is right and we're really going to need the Yotsuba to take away at least one.

[Turnip Head]

I think there's fewer Death Notes than there are Kiras, FZ.

[Ricochet]

I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

And since we can't lynch Higuchi until/if he gets a death note, it would be pointless to pursue it now. The way I see it, the Yotsuba are a dormant group of neutral players right now.

Will we get a memo when he gets the DN? Or do we see it in the kills? Does it mean that when he does, we have more than one kill per night?

It's very hard to speculate how many Kiras will possess DN's at the same time, because it's just that: rampant speculation based on the canon of the theme.

So basically it's possible that all 4 will have them simultaneously? Maybe Epi is right and we're really going to need the Yotsuba to take away at least one.

I didn't say that and I personally doubt it will happen. I'd say at most two simultaneous active Kiras. Higuchi and X Kira definitely receive it "after certain events" and, based on canon, I tend to believe it will mean the original Kiras (Light & Misa) have given up ownership of it.

linki @ TH: If no more kills tonight, I'd say it is obvious only Light is an active Kira right now i.e. not even Misa received hers yet.

[Ricochet]

Also, Ryuk and Rem are required to carry their own Death Note in the manga/anime, but since Ryuk's secrets reveal no DN-possession or action, I think they (and Sidoh, as well) are not going to possess DNs and do any killing in this game.

[FZ.]

Wow, this is one messed up anime :P Kidding. I have to go, but thanks for the information.

[Tangrowth]

FYI

There are roughly 2 hours and 10 minutes until Night 2 is complete. I will try to end N2 and start Day 3 around that time as timely as possible.

[Epignosis]

Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

[Turnip Head]

Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

You used a lot of words here, but you didn't really say much at all.

[thellama73]

I think that's an excellent point, Epi. How would someone act if they just wanted to survive until they get a kill? I'd like the opinions of others, but I think the answer to this lies in blendiness. Blendiness is key this game. Also, SNowman is stilll my top suspect.

linki TH: I disagree.

[Epignosis]

I've got some words for you, and most of them contain four letters.

[Matahari]

all this discussion about why yotsuba shouldn't be lynched is meaningless to me, unless there is some kind of guideline on how to prevent it. if I think someone is bad, and I vote them, I voted them because I thought they were bad. what am i supposed to do, ask myself first if I think they might be a yotsuba? or am I supposed to follow player A's choice because its generally accepted that A is either a role checker, or Yotsuba? I don't much care for being a sheep.

catching up on the linki

[Turnip Head]

Is there a Part III coming up?

[Epignosis]

Is there a Part III coming up?

I don't know. I'm tired and have things to do.

[S~V~S]

Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

I did not think he was particularly bad; I did not feel that way about you. It was not a whim; I had mentioned you before, and I have been watching you closely. You keep talking about how you aren't going to role hint, or out yourself, or info drop, and yet you are so heavy handed in implying you are Yotsuba, I think you might be actually bad. Becasue I do not think you are Yotsuba, and I certianly don't think you're a detective. Like at all.

There are lots of people I won't vote for without a smoking gun. LOTS. You are not one of them.

[S~V~S]

Also, boo said he suspected me at one point. Why would BTS civs distance that way?

[Epignosis]

There are lots of people I won't vote for without a smoking gun. LOTS. You are not one of them.

And that cripples you as a civilian.

Do excuse me.

[S~V~S]

Why? I feel OK about some people, and not OK about others. That does not "cripple me".

It would take a lot to get me to vote for some people, and very little to get me to vote for others. Think of someone you feel you are trusting this game. It will take a lot to get you to vote for that person. It will take you very little to vote for me.

I think you are looking for reasons to justify voting for me. And if that is the best you can do, I have no worries

[Epignosis]

Why? I feel OK about some people, and not OK about others. That does not "cripple me".

It would take a lot to get me to vote for some people, and very little to get me to vote for others. Think of someone you feel you are trusting this game. It will take a lot to get you to vote for that person. It will take you very little to vote for me.

I think you are looking for reasons to justify voting for me. And if that is the best you can do, I have no worries

That you think my post is an attempt to justify voting you only proves my point (and indicates you didn't get my post at all).

[Epignosis]

Why? I feel OK about some people, and not OK about others. That does not "cripple me".

But since we're talking, why do you feel OK about some people? Who are these people and why?

I remember when I first asked you about boo, you didn't answer.

[Matahari]

Zeke, no bashing STV here. I cut my mafia teeth there and I'm so grateful Roxy and LaD talked me into playing a game. I got hooked.

Still, there were some things they did there that just got dropped over the years, like the 'townie statement' and I'm kind of glad about that. I don't like things to be predictable in mafia.

[zeek]

Zeke, no bashing STV here. I cut my mafia teeth there and I'm so grateful Roxy and LaD talked me into playing a game. I got hooked.

I am your mafia grandpa then, I talked Roxy into playing her first game :P

[DharmaHelper]

Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

"I believe she is awfully inconsistent" says the man who has been completely inconsistent.

[Marmot]

Mata, I forgot to ask you for a response to this please. I hope you enjoyed playing outside.

I don't think Epig is up to any good either, but I can't really figure out why I feel that way. He's not doing anything that seems remotely helpful

I still feel weird about Metalmarsh voting Epig. His convo with Llama was very confusing, he seemed to disagree with llama, but then he would post something that sounded like he was feeding llama, then back to disagreeing with him. Then he votes epig, kind of out of the blue. Maybe he has bts with llama.

Wait, wait what? You suspect Epi, then you suspect me for voting Epi for the same reason you suspected.

[Matahari]

Zeke, no bashing STV here. I cut my mafia teeth there and I'm so grateful Roxy and LaD talked me into playing a game. I got hooked.

I am your mafia grandpa then, I talked Roxy into playing her first game :P

at 60 years old, its nice to still have a grandpa

[S~V~S]

Some people do not act or feel like baddies to me, so at this stage, I feel OK about them. I am not sure why you would ask people to name the people they feel OK about. I would like to hear more from BR, but what I have heard was OK.

But I feel OK about Llama, actually; he & I disagree, but everything he did was in character. I feel OK about boo. I feel better about FZ than I did. So far so good on Matahari. I feel pretty OK about Zomba. Bea I am not sure about. MM pinged me early, with the little fit he pitched, and has been being way nice to me since. Hrm.

No real read on Boom, or Bass. Zeek seems a tad pissy about being quesitoned. I have no clue what TH is up to, but it's funny. Snowman is a blank; the case against him was weak, but the fact that his wife thinks he's bad, and his reaction to her post, is making me rethink that. I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. I want to trust DH, but the last game is too close. I wish Russ would post more.

I am a bit leery of Eloh, but only a tiny bit. That comment about not saying baddies/civvies pinged me a bit, but her explanation went most of the way towards settling that. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I am trying to listen to the small voice, rather than all the big "personalities" monopolizing the thread.

What question about boo? I might have missed it in this thread.

Linki @ Mata

[S~V~S]

Also, I have been trying to think about who would kill LC this early, and why.

[Matahari]

Mata, I forgot to ask you for a response to this please. I hope you enjoyed playing outside.

I don't think Epig is up to any good either, but I can't really figure out why I feel that way. He's not doing anything that seems remotely helpful

I still feel weird about Metalmarsh voting Epig. His convo with Llama was very confusing, he seemed to disagree with llama, but then he would post something that sounded like he was feeding llama, then back to disagreeing with him. Then he votes epig, kind of out of the blue. Maybe he has bts with llama.

Wait, wait what? You suspect Epi, then you suspect me for voting Epi for the same reason you suspected.

it is confusing, is it not? I thought it might be a suspicious thing that you voted Epig, or that it might be that I was missing something. I also thought Epig might be bad, but he might not be, and I just think he might be because it seems like he is trying to 'lead the thread'. However, the more I know (read), the more I can rule out or decide not to rule out... I hope that is less confusing.

[DharmaHelper]

Some people do not act or feel like baddies to me, so at this stage, I feel OK about them. I am not sure why you would ask people to name the people they feel OK about. I would like to hear more from BR, but what I have heard was OK.

But I feel OK about Llama, actually; he & I disagree, but everything he did was in character. I feel OK about boo. I feel better about FZ than I did. So far so good on Matahari. I feel pretty OK about Zomba. Bea I am not sure about. MM pinged me early, with the little fit he pitched, and has been being way nice to me since. Hrm.

No real read on Boom, or Bass. Zeek seems a tad pissy about being quesitoned. I have no clue what TH is up to, but it's funny. Snowman is a blank; the case against him was weak, but the fact that his wife thinks he's bad, and his reaction to her post, is making me rethink that. I don't trust you as far as I can throw you. I want to trust DH, but the last game is too close. I wish Russ would post more.

I am a bit leery of Eloh, but only a tiny bit. That comment about not saying baddies/civvies pinged me a bit, but her explanation went most of the way towards settling that. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I am trying to listen to the small voice, rather than all the big "personalities" monopolizing the thread.

What question about boo? I might have missed it in this thread.

Linki @ Mata

I don't know how I feel about you wanting to trust me. If I were you, I'd consider me guilty until proven innocent. I think that has yielded better results in terms of your reads of me in the past.

[S~V~S]

I know, that's why I said the last game is too close. I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, either. I want to, though. You sound so reasonable

[Marmot]

But I feel OK about Llama, actually; he & I disagree, but everything he did was in character. I feel OK about boo. I feel better about FZ than I did. So far so good on Matahari. I feel pretty OK about Zomba. Bea I am not sure about. MM pinged me early, with the little fit he pitched, and has been being way nice to me since. Hrm.

You got a problem with that?

[DharmaHelper]

I know, that's why I said the last game is too close. I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, either. I want to, though. You sound so reasonable

I'm trying to be. My problem comes in that this is an MP game, and so much is up in the air right now. Once some of these spinning plates start to fall, I'll have a much better grip on things.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Well after catching up I think all this yotsuba talk is just getting out of control I mean we don't even know what their win conditions are. So I rather lynch a yotsuba then a detective. I understand that lynching Sympathizers are better because their are more kiras in that group.

[Epignosis]

Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

"I believe she is awfully inconsistent" says the man who has been completely inconsistent.

Yeah, but I'm intentional.

[thellama73]

I like SVS's "who would kill Long Con?" question very much. That seems like a fruitful avenue to explore, and I will have to think about it a lot before casting my next vote.