Death Note Mafia [END]

[FZ.]

Do you all think there's a reason MP is giving out the secrets in that specific order, or is it more random?

It's worth noting that he's only done it with players that we've lynched that have a secret win condition (because that's what we've been solving for). So I don't think it's random. I think we won't see any more such puzzle-solving until we lynch another player that has a secret win condition, and I think Matsuda doesn't have one.

I was also talking about the changes in role secrets he put up a few times after the night

[Elohcin]

FZ, what do you consider to be big issues?

I don't know. I don't remember Elo saying much in any of the big discussions, like DH vs. Epi. I mostly remember her talking about watching the show, sharing stuff on her and EPi, that are a need to know basis :P , and posting a lot in OT green.


Elo, by the way, I forgot to ask you before because when I read it, I was in a big hurry. Did you mix me and Zombarella up? You had this post where you talked about how leading a lynch did not make those people good. If I remember, I thought you were talking about the Snowman lynch, and then you went on to say that even though it didn't make those people civvies, you felt nothing but good vibes from llama and me. Did you mean Zomb?

I didn't have anything to weigh in on the DH/Epi thing. I am still not exactly sure about Epi's alliance. If I am unsure about his alliance, how can I make any decisions about what HE thinks of DH. Any other big issues you want my two cents on?

The off topic green was responses to Epi's late night OT greens.

And, I remember the post you are talking about. I believe you are right. I got you mixed up with Zomb.

[Marmot]

Do you all think there's a reason MP is giving out the secrets in that specific order, or is it more random?

It's worth noting that he's only done it with players that we've lynched that have a secret win condition (because that's what we've been solving for). So I don't think it's random. I think we won't see any more such puzzle-solving until we lynch another player that has a secret win condition, and I think Matsuda doesn't have one.

I was also talking about the changes in role secrets he put up a few times after the night

I've not kept up with each new change, but we have 4 detectives revealed and 8 non-detectives revealed. I have a feeling that each day, 1 civvie is revealed, 1 Yotsuba is revealed, and 1 Sympathizer is revealed, though now we go to 2 Sympathizers per day since all the Yotsuba have been revealed.

That's the pattern that appeals to me right now.

[thellama73]

For anyone, what would you consider to be "suspicious behavior" in a game like this where there is very little BTSC?

I consider lying about the rules of the game suspicious behavior.

Shuichi Aizawa – Takes his job very seriously and can be rather opinionated, and thus clashes at times with Matsuda and Misa Amane. He has some respect for L, but seems to hold him in contempt. At some point, the tensions may become too high for Aizawa, and he may choose to leave the Japanese Task Force. On two separate occasions, he may start an argument with either Matsuda or Misa, role blocking one of them. Aizawa cannot control which player is blocked, however. If L ever votes for Aizawa in a lynch or vice versa, Aizawa leaves the Japanese Task Force, and gains BTSC with Hideki Ide.

Hideki Ide – Characterized by a fiery temper and a hatred for foolishness, Ide especially does not get along with L, and refuses to abide by his methods. If he ever votes for L to be lynched, his vote that day is worth 5. Gains BTSC with Shuichi Aizawa if Aizawa quits the Japanese Task Force. (Secrets)

Near – One of two possible individuals being groomed to be the successor to L in case of disaster, Near is much like a younger version of L: socially awkward, but incredibly intelligent and cunning. If L dies, Near takes over the Kira investigation and starts the Special Provision for Kira (SPK), determined to catch Kira before Mello does. Near cannot be lynched unless L is dead; until that time, he cannot use any role ability. Because of his anonymous existence, he cannot be night killed by Kira unless Kira first knows his role. As head of the SPK, he continues investigating where L left off. At the end of every night, he may either gain anonymous BTSC with any player of his choice for the subsequent day/night cycle, or search for the active Kira. If he finds the active Kira and Matsuda is still alive, the game will end and the Detectives will win. If he finds the active Kira and Matsuda is dead, the game will still end, but Light has a chance of escaping unharmed. This outcome can end in either a Detective win or a Kira win, with the likelihood of each unknown to Near and Light.

Raye Penber – An FBI agent who begins investigating Light Yagami when L tells him to. Has BTSC with Naomi. (Secrets)

Naomi Misora – A former FBI agent and fiancée of Raye Penber. If Raye dies while investigating Light, she picks up where he left off. Has BTSC with Raye. (Secrets)

Shingo Mido - After Higuchi has killed two victims, he invites Namikawa, Shimura, and Ooi to a secret meeting. Mido, Namikawa, Shimura, and Ooi gain temporary BTSC; the secret meeting lasts one full day/night cycle.

Light Yagami (Kira) – The initial finder of a Death Note, Light is a high-school senior who quickly grows obsessed with power, declaring himself the ultimate decider of criminals’ fates. Determined to create a new perfect world without evil, Light will manipulate or kill anyone in his way. Has BTSC with Ryuk. (Secrets)

Ryuk – A shinigami who appears to Light shortly after he discovers his Death Note, Ryuk explains that he has to stay with Light until he either dies or the Death Note is destroyed, and that he ‘dropped’ the Death Note into the human world because he was bored. As a shinigami, he cannot be harmed by humans, nor can he be seen by humans who have not made contact with his Death Note. Oh, and he loves apples. Has BTSC with Light Yagami. Because he is a shinigami, votes by humans in lynches do not affect him, and writing his name down in a Death Note will not kill him. Thus, he cannot be lynched or night killed. However, if he is about to be killed for the second time, although he will still not die, his existence will be made aware to everyone, outing him. Even though Ryuk refuses to take sides and often finds pleasure at Light’s misfortunes, he accompanies Light, and even may assist him. Once Raye Penber has started following Light, Ryuk offers Light the Shinigami Eye deal. If Light takes the offer, Light can role check two players every night but he must kill one of those two players. If Light currently cannot kill with a Death Note, he cannot role check anyone. Because the Eye Deal cuts his lifespan, all votes against Light in lynches will be doubled for the remainder of the game. If Light refuses the Eye Deal, he still may change his mind and accept it later at any time.

Misa Amane (Second Kira) – A famous model whose parents were murdered by a man that Kira kills with his Death Note, Misa becomes infatuated with Kira and makes desperate moves to meet him. She thereafter becomes Light’s girlfriend, incredibly complacent to his demands. Gains BTSC with Rem when she receives her Death Note. At some point, she gains a Death Note. Once she starts killing, she may send a message to Light every night, and her kill fails automatically if she uses it against him. She stops at nothing to gain Light’s attention, and at some point may gain permanent BTSC with him. Because of a romantic rivalry with Kiyomi Takada, her vote is worth 3 if she ever votes for Takada. At any time, Misa may forfeit ownership of her Death Note. If she does so, she cannot use a Death Note for the remainder of the game, but for the subsequent three days she cannot be lynched.

Rem – A shinigami who appears to Misa after she discovers her Death Note, Rem accompanies Misa and guards her at any cost. As a shinigami, she cannot be harmed by humans, nor can she be seen by humans who have not made contact with her Death Note. Gains BTSC with Misa Amane when she gives her the Death Note. Because she is a shinigami, votes by humans in lynches do not affect her, and writing her name down in a Death Note will not kill her. Thus, she cannot be lynched or night killed. However, if she is about to be killed for the second time, although she will still not die, her existence will be made aware to everyone, outing her. Even before giving the Death Note to Misa, she knows Misa’s identity. In addition, if Misa is targeted for a night kill before Misa gains her Death Note, Rem absorbs the kill automatically, ensuring Misa's survival. Certain events must occur before she will give up her Death Note to Misa. Once she does so, Rem serves as Misa's guardian, doing anything she can to protect her. If she ever feels Misa is being threatened, Rem may write down the name of a human in her Death Note at any time, killing them regardless of whether they cannot be lynched or night killed; however, if she does so, she will also die. If Misa ever dies, Rem retreats to the Shinigami Realm, leaving the game. When Higuchi starts killing, Rem gains BTSC with him, losing it with Misa, and also with Light and Ryuk, if she had previously gained it. She may regain BTSC with her former BTSCmate(s) and lose it with Higuchi under certain circumstances. Immediately as she gains BTSC with Misa, Rem offers her the Shinigami Eye deal. If Misa takes the Shinigami Eye deal, Misa can role check two players every night but she or Light must kill one of those two players. If neither of them can currently kill with a Death Note, she cannot role check anyone. Because the Eye Deal cuts her lifespan, all votes against Misa in lynches will be doubled for the remainder of the game. If Misa refuses the Eye Deal, she still may change her mind and accept it later at any time. Rem offers this same deal to Higuchi when he gains a Death Note.

Teru Mikami (X Kira) – As a devoted worshiper of Kira, Mikami has a strong sense of justice and feels evil absolutely must be punished. He adheres to a very strict, daily schedule. If a certain chain of events occurs, Mikami gains a Death Note. At this time, he is offered the Shinigami Eye Deal. If Mikami takes the Eye Deal, he can role check two players every night but he must kill one of those two players. If Mikami currently cannot kill with a Death Note, he cannot role check anyone. Because the Eye Deal cuts his lifespan, all votes against Mikami in lynches will be doubled for the remainder of the game. If Mikami refuses the Eye Deal, he still may change his mind and accept it later at any time. At some point, he gains BTSC with Kiyomi Takada. At this time, per Light's orders, he creates a fake Death Note. If Mikami is ever found by Near, Near finds the fake Death Note, delaying Near's capture of Mikami for an additional two cycles.

Kiyomi Takada – Classmate and former girlfriend of Light Yagami, Takada becomes the official spokeswoman for Kira if Demegawa dies. Like Demegawa, she may only be Kira's spokeswoman after L has died. If Mikami starts killing, she gains BTSC with both Light and Mikami separately, facilitating communication among the three of them. Because of a romantic rivalry with Misa Amane, her vote is worth 3 if she ever votes for Misa. If she has become Kira's spokeswoman, every night she can force one player to vote the way she wishes the subsequent day.

[FZ.]

FZ, what do you consider to be big issues?

I don't know. I don't remember Elo saying much in any of the big discussions, like DH vs. Epi. I mostly remember her talking about watching the show, sharing stuff on her and EPi, that are a need to know basis :P , and posting a lot in OT green.


Elo, by the way, I forgot to ask you before because when I read it, I was in a big hurry. Did you mix me and Zombarella up? You had this post where you talked about how leading a lynch did not make those people good. If I remember, I thought you were talking about the Snowman lynch, and then you went on to say that even though it didn't make those people civvies, you felt nothing but good vibes from llama and me. Did you mean Zomb?

I didn't have anything to weigh in on the DH/Epi thing. I am still not exactly sure about Epi's alliance. If I am unsure about his alliance, how can I make any decisions about what HE thinks of DH. Any other big issues you want my two cents on?

The off topic green was responses to Epi's late night OT greens.

And, I remember the post you are talking about. I believe you are right. I got you mixed up with Zomb.

But when you read it, who did you find yourself agreeing with? Did you think they were both civvies, or one bad. If the latter, who are you more inclined to see as bad?

Meh, I don't remember all the big issues because the paste of this game is overwhelming. If I do remember, I'll be sure to ask you.

I thought so. Wanted to make sure.

Do you all think there's a reason MP is giving out the secrets in that specific order, or is it more random?

It's worth noting that he's only done it with players that we've lynched that have a secret win condition (because that's what we've been solving for). So I don't think it's random. I think we won't see any more such puzzle-solving until we lynch another player that has a secret win condition, and I think Matsuda doesn't have one.

I was also talking about the changes in role secrets he put up a few times after the night

I've not kept up with each new change, but we have 4 detectives revealed and 8 non-detectives revealed. I have a feeling that each day, 1 civvie is revealed, 1 Yotsuba is revealed, and 1 Sympathizer is revealed, though now we go to 2 Sympathizers per day since all the Yotsuba have been revealed.

That's the pattern that appeals to me right now.

I get that he's balancing the secrets revealed between the groups. I mean within each group. He's not following the list in terms of order. I think we got Near's secrets out first, while L is still in the dark. I'm just wondering about those choices.
Never mind. I don't think we can make much of it.


linki: A lot of these BTSC happen after the Kiras (one of them) gains a death note or starts killing. Since we've only seen one death, I doubt any of these have happened....though I didn't carefully read all of them, just skimmed

[thellama73]

linki: A lot of these BTSC happen after the Kiras (one of them) gains a death note or starts killing. Since we've only seen one death, I doubt any of these have happened....though I didn't carefully read all of them, just skimmed

We've only seen one death? I guess SVS doesn't count. Poor SVS

[Elohcin]

@ llama - I am not understanding how I lied. Please elaborate.

@ FZ - I was more inclined to see Epi as civ and DH as bad. But not enough to weigh in.

[Elohcin]

OHHH...I think I see where you are getting at. I mean very little BTSC right NOW. DUH!

[thellama73]

@ llama - I am not understanding how I lied. Please elaborate.

I think the point is adequately made for now.

[FZ.]

linki: A lot of these BTSC happen after the Kiras (one of them) gains a death note or starts killing. Since we've only seen one death, I doubt any of these have happened....though I didn't carefully read all of them, just skimmed

We've only seen one death? I guess SVS doesn't count. Poor SVS

NO idea why I said one. But still, I doubt many have gained BTSC at this point.

[thellama73]

OHHH...I think I see where you are getting at. I mean very little BTSC right NOW. DUH!

And you know that Misa hasn't received a death note, how? And you know that's Mikami's "at some point" hasn't happened yet, how?

[Elohcin]

OHHH...I think I see where you are getting at. I mean very little BTSC right NOW. DUH!

And you know that Misa hasn't received a death note, how? And you know that's Mikami's "at some point" hasn't happened yet, how?

Um..not sure. I will go read the roles and get back to you

[thellama73]

Assumptions, assumptions. Oh how I distrust assumptions.

The great Murray Rothbard once wrote that theoretical reasoning "is bound to be slipshod when their methodological doctrine is that assumptions don’t have to be true in order to work".

[Turnip Head]

If Misa and Mikami had Death Notes already, I think we'd be seeing a lot more death. This does not seem an unreasonable assumption to make...

[Turnip Head]

OHHH...I think I see where you are getting at. I mean very little BTSC right NOW. DUH!

And you know that Misa hasn't received a death note, how? And you know that's Mikami's "at some point" hasn't happened yet, how?

Um..not sure. I will go read the roles and get back to you

This answer still seems a little fishy though

[thellama73]

If Misa and Mikami had Death Notes already, I think we'd be seeing a lot more death. This does not seem an unreasonable assumption to make...

The role doesn't say that Mikami has to have a death note to gain BTSC. It says "at some point."

Assumptions...

[Elohcin]

Okay, sure....those may have happened. Even still....its only two people with BTSC here and 2 people with BTSC there. It still makes it hard to catch baddies. There's no GROUP of players with BTSC making decisions, scheming, and possibly slipping up in the thread or creating a trail.

Linki: Yes, I agree with TH. Good point.

TH, why fishy that I have to reread roles before answering? I don't retain info like some. I have to read the roles SEVERAL times throughout a game.

[Turnip Head]

If Misa and Mikami had Death Notes already, I think we'd be seeing a lot more death. This does not seem an unreasonable assumption to make...

The role doesn't say that Mikami has to have a death note to gain BTSC. It says "at some point."

Assumptions...

Kiyomi Takada – Classmate and former girlfriend of Light Yagami, Takada becomes the official spokeswoman for Kira if Demegawa dies. Like Demegawa, she may only be Kira's spokeswoman after L has died. If Mikami starts killing, she gains BTSC with both Light and Mikami separately, facilitating communication among the three of them. Because of a romantic rivalry with Misa Amane, her vote is worth 3 if she ever votes for Misa. If she has become Kira's spokeswoman, every night she can force one player to vote the way she wishes the subsequent day.

What was that you were saying Llama?

[Turnip Head]

Okay, sure....those may have happened. Even still....its only two people with BTSC here and 2 people with BTSC there. It still makes it hard to catch baddies. There's no GROUP of players with BTSC making decisions, scheming, and possibly slipping up in the thread or creating a trail.

Linki: Yes, I agree with TH. Good point.

TH, why fishy that I have to reread roles before answering? I don't retain info like some. I have to read the roles SEVERAL times throughout a game.

It sounded like you were going back to the role sheet to justify the feelings you already had. Like you had inside knowledge of the situation, but needed to make sure you explained your viewpoint in a way that wouldn't make that apparent. I'm not saying that's what you did, just that it stood out to me.

[DharmaHelper]

If Misa and Mikami had Death Notes already, I think we'd be seeing a lot more death. This does not seem an unreasonable assumption to make...

The role doesn't say that Mikami has to have a death note to gain BTSC. It says "at some point."

Assumptions...

Kiyomi Takada – Classmate and former girlfriend of Light Yagami, Takada becomes the official spokeswoman for Kira if Demegawa dies. Like Demegawa, she may only be Kira's spokeswoman after L has died. If Mikami starts killing, she gains BTSC with both Light and Mikami separately, facilitating communication among the three of them. Because of a romantic rivalry with Misa Amane, her vote is worth 3 if she ever votes for Misa. If she has become Kira's spokeswoman, every night she can force one player to vote the way she wishes the subsequent day.

What was that you were saying Llama?

Dang son

[thellama73]

If Misa and Mikami had Death Notes already, I think we'd be seeing a lot more death. This does not seem an unreasonable assumption to make...

The role doesn't say that Mikami has to have a death note to gain BTSC. It says "at some point."

Assumptions...

Kiyomi Takada – Classmate and former girlfriend of Light Yagami, Takada becomes the official spokeswoman for Kira if Demegawa dies. Like Demegawa, she may only be Kira's spokeswoman after L has died. If Mikami starts killing, she gains BTSC with both Light and Mikami separately, facilitating communication among the three of them. Because of a romantic rivalry with Misa Amane, her vote is worth 3 if she ever votes for Misa. If she has become Kira's spokeswoman, every night she can force one player to vote the way she wishes the subsequent day.

What was that you were saying Llama?

That's Takada's role, not Mikami's. You're ASSUMING that Mikami gaining btsc with Takada "at some point" is the same event as Takada gaining BTSC with both Light and Mikami separately. They could be distinct.

[Turnip Head]

And you are ASSUMING that they are not the same event...

This works both ways...

[Epignosis]

Cue onus of proof in 3...2...1...

[Elohcin]

All I had to do was scroll up and read the roles real quick that llama just quotes. I want to make sure I was right in thinking that it was just "2 here"and "2 there". And my memory was correct.

Linki: haha, llama, he is right. You are assuming too

[thellama73]

And you are ASSUMING that they are not the same event...

This works both ways...

I'm making no such assumption. Read my posts.

[Turnip Head]

I have nothing left to add to this particular conversation, because I don't think it's headed anywhere constructive.

[thellama73]

Okay, Logic 101, because apparently people need it.

FX, Elohcin, and TH all made positive claims amount the amount of BTSC in the game at present. Those are assumptions.

I pointed out that those claims are not necessarily correct - they might be correct, but the only way you could know that is if you have inside information. This is not an assumption. This is pointing out that the positive claims present lack evidence.

[thellama73]

EBWOP, FZ, not FX.

[Epignosis]

Linki: haha, llama, he is right. You are assuming too

Right now, you are assuming there is an invisible dragon peeing on my shoulder, and that he looks exactly like Tim Burton.

I am assuming that there isn't.

[Turnip Head]

It seems clear to me that Mikami and Takada gain BTSC when Mikami receives his Death Note - the roles literally say that this happens - but if Llama doesn't want to believe that for some reason, that's his choice.

[FZ.]

If Misa and Mikami had Death Notes already, I think we'd be seeing a lot more death. This does not seem an unreasonable assumption to make...

The role doesn't say that Mikami has to have a death note to gain BTSC. It says "at some point."

Assumptions...

Kiyomi Takada – Classmate and former girlfriend of Light Yagami, Takada becomes the official spokeswoman for Kira if Demegawa dies. Like Demegawa, she may only be Kira's spokeswoman after L has died. If Mikami starts killing, she gains BTSC with both Light and Mikami separately, facilitating communication among the three of them. Because of a romantic rivalry with Misa Amane, her vote is worth 3 if she ever votes for Misa. If she has become Kira's spokeswoman, every night she can force one player to vote the way she wishes the subsequent day.

What was that you were saying Llama?

That's Takada's role, not Mikami's. You're ASSUMING that Mikami gaining btsc with Takada "at some point" is the same event as Takada gaining BTSC with both Light and Mikami separately. They could be distinct.

I agree, you're assuming too....or you know something this from first hand :P

[thellama73]

It seems clear to me that Mikami and Takada gain BTSC when Mikami receives his Death Note - the roles literally say that this happens - but if Llama doesn't want to believe that for some reason, that's his choice.

That's not what the roles say. On says "when Mikami starts killing" and one says "at some point" and that Mikami makes a fake death note.

[Turnip Head]

Linki: haha, llama, he is right. You are assuming too

Right now, you are assuming there is an invisible dragon peeing on my shoulder, and that he looks exactly like Tim Burton.

I am assuming that there isn't.

You could not have found a less effective way to demonstrate your point of view, IMO. Eloh's assumptions are based on evidence within the roles. Your example assumption is based on being ridiculous.

[thellama73]

I agree, you're assuming too....or you know something this from first hand :P

I'm an agnostic. I'm not assuming that god exists. I'm not assuming he doesn't. And I will challenge anyone who makes positive claims either way without evidence.

[FZ.]

Okay, Logic 101, because apparently people need it.

FX, Elohcin, and TH all made positive claims amount the amount of BTSC in the game at present. Those are assumptions.

I pointed out that those claims are not necessarily correct - they might be correct, but the only way you could know that is if you have inside information. This is not an assumption. This is pointing out that the positive claims present lack evidence.

No, MP said that the baddies start without BTSC. Any assumptions on changes, are just that, assumptions. We know how it started out. You've been claiming BTSC between people as a reason from the start of the game

[Epignosis]

Linki: haha, llama, he is right. You are assuming too

Right now, you are assuming there is an invisible dragon peeing on my shoulder, and that he looks exactly like Tim Burton.

I am assuming that there isn't.

You could not have found a less effective way to demonstrate your point of view, IMO. Eloh's assumptions are based on evidence within the roles. Your example assumption is based on being ridiculous.

I disagree. Watch:

fjodsijfosijfdosijdfosijdfosijdfosijdfoisjdfosdfk;svmn;oieslkdmn;dsnf;lskn;lskjnf;lksnf;dsknf;dsakjnf;kdsjn

[Turnip Head]

I stand corrected :P

[thellama73]

Okay, Logic 101, because apparently people need it.

FX, Elohcin, and TH all made positive claims amount the amount of BTSC in the game at present. Those are assumptions.

I pointed out that those claims are not necessarily correct - they might be correct, but the only way you could know that is if you have inside information. This is not an assumption. This is pointing out that the positive claims present lack evidence.

No, MP said that the baddies start without BTSC. Any assumptions on changes, are just that, assumptions. We know how it started out. You've been claiming BTSC between people as a reason from the start of the game

Please demonstrate where I have claimed BTSC between people as a reason for voting for them.

[thellama73]

Okay, Logic 101, because apparently people need it.

FX, Elohcin, and TH all made positive claims amount the amount of BTSC in the game at present. Those are assumptions.

I pointed out that those claims are not necessarily correct - they might be correct, but the only way you could know that is if you have inside information. This is not an assumption. This is pointing out that the positive claims present lack evidence.

No, MP said that the baddies start without BTSC. Any assumptions on changes, are just that, assumptions. We know how it started out. You've been claiming BTSC between people as a reason from the start of the game

Please demonstrate where I have claimed BTSC between people as a reason for voting for them.

And also, that's not what MP said. Light and Ryuk start the game with BTSC.

[Turnip Head]

Please demonstrate where I have claimed BTSC between people as a reason for voting for them.

Didn't you vote for me because I defended Snowman? Doesn't that mean you assumed I had BTSC with him?

Err wait, you would never assume anything, so that can't be right...

[thellama73]

Please demonstrate where I have claimed BTSC between people as a reason for voting for them.

Didn't you vote for me because I defended Snowman? Doesn't that mean you assumed I had BTSC with him?

Err wait, you would never assume anything, so that can't be right...

That's not why I voted for you.

[DharmaHelper]

OK All this on topic discussion is great but can we get back to solving puzzles.

[Epignosis]

OK All this on topic discussion is great but can we get back to solving puzzles.

~~~~ ~~~.

[thellama73]

OK All this on topic discussion is great but can we get back to solving puzzles.

I was just going to say how much better this is than all that puzzle nonsense.

[Turnip Head]

Please demonstrate where I have claimed BTSC between people as a reason for voting for them.

Didn't you vote for me because I defended Snowman? Doesn't that mean you assumed I had BTSC with him?

Err wait, you would never assume anything, so that can't be right...

That's not why I voted for you.

My vote goes to Turnip Head for these reasons:
1. Excessive flip-flopping and trying to seem easy to please on Day 0.
2. Repeated reactionary, unexplained early votes.
3. Vocal defense of and apologism for Snowman, who was bad.

Help me out here Llama

[DharmaHelper]

OK All this on topic discussion is great but can we get back to solving puzzles.

~~~~ ~~~.

Kill Epi (SOLVED)

[FZ.]

Okay, Logic 101, because apparently people need it.

FX, Elohcin, and TH all made positive claims amount the amount of BTSC in the game at present. Those are assumptions.

I pointed out that those claims are not necessarily correct - they might be correct, but the only way you could know that is if you have inside information. This is not an assumption. This is pointing out that the positive claims present lack evidence.

No, MP said that the baddies start without BTSC. Any assumptions on changes, are just that, assumptions. We know how it started out. You've been claiming BTSC between people as a reason from the start of the game

Please demonstrate where I have claimed BTSC between people as a reason for voting for them.

I didn't say you said it was a reason to vote for someone, but you pointed out more than once that there was BTSC and suggested that people defending Snowman were likely to have had BTSC

[thellama73]

My vote's going to FZ tomorrow, based on her "you've been claiming BTSC between people as a reason from the start of the game" blatant lie.

Linki TH. You can have reasons for defending people without having BTSC with them, and you'll notice that's the last, therefore least important of the multiple reasons I voted for you.

Linki FZ: Oh, I didn't realize the Snowman lynch was THE START OF THE GAME. I must have been confused by the Day number.

[FZ.]

Do it then. I have already acquired the taste of others misinterpreting my intentions from minute zero.

Very well. Explain your intentions.

I did. It's in that post. It's raising an issue on the L/Light type of voting based on how many connections or how much awareness could potentially form in both sides and which side would end up with more advantage, if this type of voting would be established over a long period of time.

But instead, I started pinging with preferring to name Light Kira (even though I said I'm willing to not do that), with being too drawn in by the theme and thus making too many assumptions based on it rather than relying on the specific-written roles (even though I apologized for making that logical jump) and being called a bullshitter for not being entirely sure if suggesting what BTSC connections could form is a way of hinting or not.

It seems likely that the Yotsuba Goup and Kira and his Sympathizers team up and become one super-baddie team with BTSC and new win conditions on Day 3.

This is one of your posts from very early in the game. I just feel like you keep bringing up the BTSC issue as something that is more present in the game than we know of. I call that assumption just as any other assumption that's been made in this game.

And you did say he might be suspicious because of that

boo defended Snowman despite his view that active players should not be lynched over inactives.

Snowman was, for me, inactive.

TH was also a vocal defender of Snowman. I'm not sure what level of BTSC the Kira sympathizers have at this point, but I find it noteworthy.

You want to vote for me for that stupid reason, have fun

[Marmot]

OK All this on topic discussion is great but can we get back to solving puzzles.

I was just going to say how much better this is than all that puzzle nonsense.

On topic discussion is great, but the puzzles are not nonsense.