Death Note Mafia [END]

[Black Rock]

I was pretty sure Zombie lady was a civvie so RIP.

So a regular timed NK, that's different.

[DharmaHelper]

I was pretty sure Zombie lady was a civvie so RIP.

So a regular timed NK, that's different.

Scrublord Kira probably changed it up to mess with me :P

[Epignosis]

DharmaHelper and Elohcin:

In one sentence, what is your opinion of bea? Your answers, taken together, will drive my second question.

I think there is a possibility she could be L.

I find certain people suspicious of different things. As I am most likely getting lynched today, I feel I must vote for the player I think dropped "info" about me. Problem is...I keep going back and forth between BR and FZ, hence the reason I keep getting FZ and zomb mixed up. I thought I finally decided on BR, but then FZ's most recent comment makes me think her.

Did you seriously just say you're trying to vote for L?

If you think that's an awfully quick turnaround going from bea being L to Black Rock being L, please be reminded that the first post wasn't genuine. Elohcin implied as much:

Why would Elo say she thought Bea was L? Wouldn't that jeopardize Bea? Why not just say she thought she was good? I don't get Elo this game at all.

Epi said that my reaction to his question would help him decide what question to ask next. I was curious to see his reaction...that is all.

It's interesting that Eloh never answered my second question even if she was looking for a reaction.

We should lynch llama.

I disagree.

Me too. I am voting Snowman again.

bea has been adamant that a llama lynch is bad. bea also said to boo:

As for how you got on my potentially bad list, you made lots of sense on D0 for sure. I agreed with you on many points right up till you started going after llama. I don't agree that he is bad at all. As soon as svs died and you didn't get llama lynched you fell off the radar quite a bit. It caught my eye. I said so.

Now, truth be told, the answers DH and Eloh gave to my first question didn't affect my second question at all. My question was always going to be the same: What do you think of thellama73?

Even though Eloh said she answered about bea to see my reaction, she never bothered answering my reaction.

People can get mad at me if they want for saying this, but I am convinced that bea and thellama73 have BTSC. If I am wrong, then it means bea is Watari and thellama73 is L.

I don't believe that's true.

I dislike this puzzle. No one is talking about who we should lynch, and I think that is a problem.

I agree.

Is there anyone else besides TH that you would be willing to look at today?

I'm cooking dinner now -but TH feels like a rats nest I don't have time to dive into.

If there are other people on your list, I'd be happy to look at them.

It's not about who I want to look at. I've been looking at people, and I've mentioned most of them in the thread. I think TH is bad and will probably vote for him.

You and FZ and Zombrella seems very interested in swaying me to vote for someone else. Who do you want me to vote for and why? I know who I want to vote for. If you want me to do otherwise, the burden is on you to convince me.

All of the above is what I had open in my tab when the kill and the L message came.

If thellama73 is L, then I think he would be perceptive enough to pick out Watari if Watari was bea. That L now publicly suspects bea means that thellama73 isn't L, and therefore bea isn't Watari.

Yet, bea is vouching heavily for thellama73. Why is that? There's one detective possibility that I can see. That is the only thing that can exonerate bea for me, and I'm not buying it.

++++

It's funny though: Who wants to lynch BOTH thellama73 and bea?

boo.

Just interesting.

[DharmaHelper]

Neat.

[Turnip Head]

I'll have to look into this heavy vouching you're referring to, Epi, I definitely hadn't caught it. I'm feeling pretty good about Llama these days, but my opinion of Bea was starting to waver slightly. L's message has pushed me toward suspecting her.

[Ricochet]

RIP Zomba. Had some doubts during the first days, but overall you helped with a good lynch and trusted L wholeheartedly, so I think you were an eager detective.

I like the small detail that Sidoh is responsible for secrets being revealed, not MP.

[Black Rock]

I'll have to look into this heavy vouching you're referring to, Epi, I definitely hadn't caught it. I'm feeling pretty good about Llama these days, but my opinion of Bea was starting to waver slightly. L's message has pushed me toward suspecting her.

I missed it as well. Wanna let me know what you see?

[bea]

NA Epi - there's lots of things that could be going on. Not just the ones you point to.

[Turnip Head]

@BR: I think it's mostly the things Epi pointed out in his above post. If anything it looks like Bea hitched her wagon to Llama's, not a two way street. And I think Epi did a good job of discounting the L/Watari possibility. Looks like Bea just has a read on Llama, but it's tough to say whether that points to her intentions being genuine or nefarious. I'll keep digging though.

[Black Rock]

NA Epi - there's lots of things that could be going on. Not just the ones you point to.

lol, sassy cat.

@BR: I think it's mostly the things Epi pointed out in his above post. If anything it looks like Bea hitched her wagon to Llama's, not a two way street. And I think Epi did a good job of discounting the L/Watari possibility. Looks like Bea just has a read on Llama, but it's tough to say whether that points to her intentions being genuine or nefarious. I'll keep digging though.

Ok, I thought there was something else. Thanks.

[bea]

What there are br - there are 2 sets of potential civ bts. I could be near and pulled him into chat and found his role out. It could be any of those scenarios that make llama l - I could be l and
investigated myself to see how people would react.

Or it could be the.truth. - I just strongly think llama is a civ. I've had good feels about him and he's done nothing to
makeline me think he is bad.

[bea]

Make - not makeline - that is the thing that stores my food at work *giggles*

[Turnip Head]

What there are br - there are 2 sets of potential civ bts. I could be near and pulled him into chat and found his role out. It could be any of those scenarios that make llama l - I could be l and
investigated myself to see how people would react.

Could be... but something tells me none of these are the case, or else you wouldn't have outright stated it. Especially the one where you say you investigated yourself. That's just ludicrous! :P

I tend to think you just have a strong read on Llama this game. You also defended DP without doubting yourself at all. Maybe you're trying to build a circle of trust around you.

Who do you think we should look at today, Bea?

[Epignosis]

What there are br - there are 2 sets of potential civ bts. I could be near and pulled him into chat and found his role out. It could be any of those scenarios that make llama l - I could be l and
investigated myself to see how people would react.

Or it could be the.truth. - I just strongly think llama is a civ. I've had good feels about him and he's done nothing to
makeline me think he is bad.

No bea:

"Near cannot be lynched unless L is dead; until that time, he cannot use any role ability. Because of his anonymous existence, he cannot be night killed by Kira unless Kira first knows his role. As head of the SPK, he continues investigating where L left off. At the end of every night, he may either gain anonymous BTSC with any player of his choice for the subsequent day/night cycle, or search for the active Kira. If he finds the active Kira and Matsuda is still alive, the game will end and the Detectives will win. If he finds the active Kira and Matsuda is dead, the game will still end, but Light has a chance of escaping unharmed. This outcome can end in either a Detective win or a Kira win, with the likelihood of each unknown to Near and Light."

L is still alive. Therefore you could not be Near.

This is a grasping of straws to me.

[boo]

Do you agree with me now Epi?

[Epignosis]

Do you agree with me now Epi?

I'm getting there.

[bea]

I have concerns regarding boo - made and mata. Truthfully. Second tier from that mm and zeeky.
They are all peeps I wouldn.t mind taking a closer look at.

Linkie - fair enough Epi. A skim over a role I don't have - nor claimed to have doesn't make me bad though.

More Linkie - by all means. If you think I'm bad - Lynch me. I don't mind my role being shown to anyone - just doesn't get anyone any nearer to finding Kieran or their sympathizers.

[Turnip Head]

Linkie - fair enough Epi. A skim over a role I don't have - nor claimed to have doesn't make me bad though.

Yeah, but it makes it look like you just skimmed the roles to quickly give yourself some excuses idk. I don't think your defense of Llama means much by itself, but it seems odd that you went to such lengths to justify it.

[bea]

It means I was bored and cold on the bus and looking for a distraction.

[bea]

Waiting on the bus. Many typing and walking is difficult - how do the kids do it?

[Turnip Head]

Fair enough I suppose :P

linki: Don't I know it? I can't mafia and walk at the same time either

[thellama73]

I see tere's been a lot of talk behind my sleeping (actually working) back.

RIP Zomba. I really thought you were bad, so this kill surprises me. I'll have to think carefully about who I'll vote for today.

[Zombarella]

This game was so much fun you guys! Thanks for a great time. DEATH TO KIRAS!

@Llama - I'm only guilty of being bad at being good :P

[Marmot]

Waiting on the bus. Many typing and walking is difficult - how do the kids do it?

Like this.

[Marmot]

@DH, I'm really liking where you are going with the idea that Light did not kill Aces . The targets and timing are certainly different. I have been doing a little bit of research and I'm thinking that maybe the note passed from a more experienced player to a less experienced player.

Ok DH, so perhaps you are right. Especially since Zomba posted this not long before she was killed.

[Turnip Head]

Who are you looking at today, Marshington?

[FZ.]

Bass, sorry to hear about your week

RIP Zombarella. I actually thought she was L at some point, but the message says otherwise.


I didn't get the message about Bea. Does it mean L doesn't think Bea is Kira but could be a Kira supporter or something similar? Or was it something else?
If she isn't a Kira, do we want to go after her at this point?


I am still wondering about BR. I get the feeling like she isn't putting herself out there. Like I said, in the last few games, she was more aggressive or more in the middle of things, and I'm not getting that feeling. Could be a detective laying low, but could also be bad. And no one seems to even mention her besides me. Is it that everyone is just sure she isn't bad?

Also, when looking at the "Kira laying low" theory, how is it, that we aren't looking at those players more closely?

[Turnip Head]

We're not sure what the percentages in L's messages mean... but in the show, L would say Light had a 7% chance of being Kira, even when L was 99% sure that he was. He just didn't have the hard evidence to prove it. But I think L's message makes it clear that he suspects Bea.

BR just hasn't been on my radar because I don't agree that she's laying lower than she usually does. I haven't kept a close eye on her though. I'll add it to my to-do list.

The person who brought up the "Kira laying low" theory is Metalmarsh, and he hasn't pursued his own theory much at all, either because he doesn't really believe it himself, or doesn't really care if we catch Kira or not.

[juliets]

We're not sure what the percentages in L's messages mean... but in the show, L would say Light had a 7% chance of being Kira, even when L was 99% sure that he was. He just didn't have the hard evidence to prove it. But I think L's message makes it clear that he suspects Bea.

BR just hasn't been on my radar because I don't agree that she's laying lower than she usually does. I haven't kept a close eye on her though. I'll add it to my to-do list.

The person who brought up the "Kira laying low" theory is Metalmarsh, and he hasn't pursued his own theory much at all, either because he doesn't really believe it himself, or doesn't really care if we catch Kira or not.

Ah thanks TH. I was thinking 7% seems pretty low for being pretty sure someone is bad but your explanation clears that up.

[thellama73]

Bass, sorry to hear about your week

RIP Zombarella. I actually thought she was L at some point, but the message says otherwise.


I didn't get the message about Bea. Does it mean L doesn't think Bea is Kira but could be a Kira supporter or something similar? Or was it something else?
If she isn't a Kira, do we want to go after her at this point?


I am still wondering about BR. I get the feeling like she isn't putting herself out there. Like I said, in the last few games, she was more aggressive or more in the middle of things, and I'm not getting that feeling. Could be a detective laying low, but could also be bad. And no one seems to even mention her besides me. Is it that everyone is just sure she isn't bad?

Also, when looking at the "Kira laying low" theory, how is it, that we aren't looking at those players more closely?

7 percent seems low to me. I'm happy to keep an eye on her, but I doubt I'll be voting her today, since I don't really have any other reason to suspect her. You, on the other hand, FZ...

[Matahari]

Llama, I went back through some of your posts to see what you are noticing about FZ. Sometimes you have agreed with her comments, but more often have questioned them. Do you think she is being inconsistent, and is that a sign that she is bad? Or did I miss something more damning in my read through/skim?

[thellama73]

Llama, I went back through some of your posts to see what you are noticing about FZ. Sometimes you have agreed with her comments, but more often have questioned them. Do you think she is being inconsistent, and is that a sign that she is bad? Or did I miss something more damning in my read through/skim?

I'll try to pull together my case on FZ today if I have time. I do agree with her frequently, but I would expect to agree with someone who is trying not to look bad, so that doesn't mean anything. Basically my bad feels about her are the sum of a large number of minor pings that add up to major discomfort with her.

[juliets]

boo, you said in a previous post you wouldn't post a case on bea because she could emotionally manipulate people and make it look like a bea vs. boo thing. Now that L has implicated bea I think your case probably doesnt run the risk of being a vehicle for manipulation. I for one would like to see your case.

[Matahari]

Llama, I went back through some of your posts to see what you are noticing about FZ. Sometimes you have agreed with her comments, but more often have questioned them. Do you think she is being inconsistent, and is that a sign that she is bad? Or did I miss something more damning in my read through/skim?

I'll try to pull together my case on FZ today if I have time. I do agree with her frequently, but I would expect to agree with someone who is trying not to look bad, so that doesn't mean anything. Basically my bad feels about her are the sum of a large number of minor pings that add up to major discomfort with her.

Ok, thank you. I am not familiar with her playstyle, so I have questioned my own pings about her from time to time. I have nothing to base them on, some of her posts just seem to be placating too much, or too agreeable.

Bass, you and your family are in my thoughts

[DharmaHelper]

I have two deductions I would like to present at this time:

1) Takada had not established BTSC at the time of her death. Why else vote for who she thought was L rather than tell her BTSC mates in private?

2) Light is someone who is not paying attention to the thread, or is Black Rock, or knows who Black Rock really is. Why else kill Zomberella over Black Rock?

[Matahari]

I have two deductions I would like to present at this time:

1) Takada had not established BTSC at the time of her death. Why else vote for who she thought was L rather than tell her BTSC mates in private?

2) Light is someone who is not paying attention to the thread, or is Black Rock, or knows who Black Rock really is. Why else kill Zomberella over Black Rock?

dang, thats good deducing.

[Matahari]

I have a question for BlackRock, what are your current feelings on Russ? You mentioned him earlier.

[juliets]

DH, I understand one of your deductions but the BR deduction (why would she not be killed instead of Zomba) lost me. Can you elaborate?

[thellama73]

Okay, here is my Grand Unified Theory on FZ Baddieness. For your convenience, my comments between posts have been highlighted in electric blue (that's the color of my room.)

FZ first caught my attention by apologizing for TH's weird behavior by randomly guessing about the role secrets, which I always find suspicious.

I wonder if there are people whose secret roles say that when they are lynched, they don't die but rather change alignment or something happens to them, which is why people are behaving odd hoping to be lynched

Then she tried to appear reasonable on TH, while simultaneously inventing reasons not to vote for him.

So TH is bad:

I noticed somebody has already voted for Llama. They must feel pretty confident about their vote.

When I said I was waiting to see something, it was regarding TH. all the last games I've played with him (at least to the extent I remember), when he was a civ, he voted almost last. He's a lot more indecisive. This very early vote gets you the and maybe even my vote

TH is acting out of character:

Two things are catching my eye at the moment:

1. Way too many people are behaving out of character.
Epi wants to vote for an absent player.
TH is voting early for llama without any reason whatsoever.
Ace is apparently posting a lot more than people are used from him.
I had more, but I forgot by the time I got here.

2. There seems to be some very strong 1 on 1 battles, which is something I'm not used to seeing in these games, especially not on day 1
DH and Epi
Ace and Trice
TH and llama

I'm assuming this is somehow related to the nature of the game, but I'm also thinking that maybe there are roles of winning terms that require taking out a specific player. Not sure what it says about the alignment of the players. I've played games where one of the mafia had to kill another in order to win, and I know the opposite can be done as well.

But these strong convictions are worrying on day 1 to say the least.

TH is suddenly good:

SVS, you said that you expect baddies not to be as aggressive because they don't know who they are lynching. But the thing is, they'll probably be voting anyway, and the chances of them getting a baddie are just as high when they play a less aggressive game. I would say this is their chance to go really strongly after players because if they take out one of their own, they'll just end up looking good without having to carry the guilt of throwing a team mate under the bus ("hey, I didn't know").

So maybe those going so strongly after others have an agenda after all

linki: llama, the thing that's making me hesitate with TH is the fact that he seems so casual and laid back, which I agree with SVS is more indicative of his civ game

TH continues to act out of character:

It's funny how TH is not even trying to come up with a reason to vote llama

TH CONTINUES to act out of character:

I can think of a few reasons for TH to not want to vote for somebody he thinks is bad

1) TH is bad and doesn't want to kill a teammate
2) TH is bad and knows that's not his teammate, but doesn't want to be involved with lynching a civ
3) TH threw out a random idea he doesn't even believe

anyone got other theories?

FWIW, I never made the connection before that the strict daily regimen thing would mean posting challenges, but it seems possible now that it's been pointed out

I have not ruled out voting for Russ in subsequent lynches, and hopefully by then we'll also hear his side of the story (if the silence only lasts today).

Did you get a challenge to vote for llama and get people talking about how ridiculous your vote is?

TH is good and anyone who says otherwise must die. This emerged slightly after TH openly said he doesn't want to lynch baddies.

Crazy enough, I'm actually contemplating voting for llama. I don't feel like he's his usual self. I feel like he knows TH's reason for voting him can't be true baddie TH, because he wouldn't do that, yet he's going after him and trying to find something to justify it with. I also don't think that TH's indecisiveness regarding the D0 vote was fishy in any way, and I don't think llama really thought it was either.
Something about how llama is playing strikes me as not genuine

Also there's this. People defending Yotsuba are likely bad:

The person most likely to feel it's important to depict Yotsuba as good guys is the one who's a Kira

Discussing Yotsuba is a waste of time. Nothing to see here.

Why does it even matter at this point? If you think Epi is a Yotsuba, do you really think he's the one we should be focusing on now? Unless you think he's a baddie talking about the Yotsuba. If he's a baddie, making the Yotsuba seem baddies to us is much better strategy. Either way, it's a waste of time

Nobody's buying what you're selling, FZ.

The preceding was a post I made in response to FZ wanting to vote me. After I made it, she backed away, as though I put up too much of a fight to be worth the bother. I sense a baddie searching for easy prey.

I think the FZ case is interesting. She stated she was thinking about voting for me and I hit her back hard. After that, she immediately backed off, which is not what I expected her to do. She's definitely someone I want to look at more going into Day 2.

For crying out loud, that's how I play. I accuse people and hear what they have to say, and then decide.

Why am I not on your list of "might have voted fors"?

Just going to leave this here:

I have no idea, and that's why I waited. I know some people are seeing me as a baddie because I'm kind of all over the place this game, but screw them. I'm allowed to hesitate, and this game is giving me a headache. Too much conversation.
As a player who came from another site where one day lasts 5 real days, and there's endless talk, it was refreshing to not have so much to catch up when I play here. I can't concentrate. That's why I like the speed games, because there are less players. I find it easier to find suspicious posts when they are not drowned in a sea of posts and arguments.

And now back to catching up. By the way, didn't Trice die? Did anyone resurrect him? I guess I'll find out

STIFLING DISCUSSION!

FZ defended Snowman extensively, before ultimately voting for him once his lynch became an inevitability.

Epi, aside from voting me, which obviously won't do much, who among those with votes are you willing to vote for?

See, this is what drives me bat-shit insane. I'm supposed to vote Snowman now because voting elsewhere won't do much? I will vote where I like, even if that person currently has zero votes.

I really think you are no good FZ.

Epi, she's trying to collect votes so as to lynch anyone but Snowman, in whom she has placed sudden and unexplained trust.

More defending Snowman.

The following seems nothing like playing the noob card. He knows perfectly well what he's saying, and he saying your reasoning sucks.

You mean the "what's his deal?" strawman reasoning I never used? Please. That post was dismissive at best.

Forget the "what's his deal". He lists the suspicion on him, and he's right that they don't hold water. I have no problem with voting newbies if I think I'm seeing something bad, hence my almost vote for both Zombarella and Snowman yesterday, but I agree with Boo that you're not following your own standards, because it seems as though you've painted the target and now you're drawing the circles around it. After you voted, anything he might have said would have been interpreted to fit your theory.

He didn't list the main reason I suspected him. He "reinterpreted" it as "what's his deal?"

Misrepresenting what MP wrote in the roles, misrepresenting my history, and claiming to know how much BTSC is currently active in the game.

Okay, Logic 101, because apparently people need it.

FX, Elohcin, and TH all made positive claims amount the amount of BTSC in the game at present. Those are assumptions.

I pointed out that those claims are not necessarily correct - they might be correct, but the only way you could know that is if you have inside information. This is not an assumption. This is pointing out that the positive claims present lack evidence.

No, MP said that the baddies start without BTSC. Any assumptions on changes, are just that, assumptions. We know how it started out. You've been claiming BTSC between people as a reason from the start of the game

Please demonstrate where I have claimed BTSC between people as a reason for voting for them.

And also, that's not what MP said. Light and Ryuk start the game with BTSC.

Finally, the vote record:

Missed vote, BWT, Snowman (Defended him first, but voted after it was inevitable), Black Rock (because she was defending TH), Elohcin (after it was inevitable)

All of this, taken together, is why FZ is my top suspect today.

[Tangrowth]

Blue, blue, electric blue, that's the color of my room, where I will live...

[DharmaHelper]

DH, I understand one of your deductions but the BR deduction (why would she not be killed instead of Zomba) lost me. Can you elaborate?

Eloh confessed she voted for BR because she thought BR was L. I assume she did this to point out to Kira "Hey, this is my thought as to who is L, so maybe NK her."

Except Kira did not take this advice, for one of several possible reasons

1) Kira is not paying attention to the thread

2) Kira is Black Rock and does not want to NK herself

3) Kira knows who Black Rock is for some reason and does not want to NK her.

[juliets]

ah, good deduction. I had forgotten about Elo calling out BR.

[thellama73]

Blue, blue, electric blue, that's the color of my room, where I will live...

I put that there just for you.

[Tangrowth]

Blue, blue, electric blue, that's the color of my room, where I will live...

I put that there just for you.

Low is definitely Bowie's best album and easily one of my favorite albums of all time.

[thellama73]

Blue, blue, electric blue, that's the color of my room, where I will live...

I put that there just for you.

Low is definitely Bowie's best album and easily one of my favorite albums of all time.

Pitchfork Magazine named it "the best album of the 70s." I'm not saying they're right, but they sure ain't wrong.

[Marmot]

DH, I understand one of your deductions but the BR deduction (why would she not be killed instead of Zomba) lost me. Can you elaborate?

Eloh confessed she voted for BR because she thought BR was L. I assume she did this to point out to Kira "Hey, this is my thought as to who is L, so maybe NK her."

Except Kira did not take this advice, for one of several possible reasons

1) Kira is not paying attention to the thread

2) Kira is Black Rock and does not want to NK herself

3) Kira knows who Black Rock is for some reason and does not want to NK her.

4) They had a legitimate reason for killing Zomba.

[DharmaHelper]

DH, I understand one of your deductions but the BR deduction (why would she not be killed instead of Zomba) lost me. Can you elaborate?

Eloh confessed she voted for BR because she thought BR was L. I assume she did this to point out to Kira "Hey, this is my thought as to who is L, so maybe NK her."

Except Kira did not take this advice, for one of several possible reasons

1) Kira is not paying attention to the thread

2) Kira is Black Rock and does not want to NK herself

3) Kira knows who Black Rock is for some reason and does not want to NK her.

4) They had a legitimate reason for killing Zomba.

Over someone who their teammate suspected was L?

[Marmot]

DH, I understand one of your deductions but the BR deduction (why would she not be killed instead of Zomba) lost me. Can you elaborate?

Eloh confessed she voted for BR because she thought BR was L. I assume she did this to point out to Kira "Hey, this is my thought as to who is L, so maybe NK her."

Except Kira did not take this advice, for one of several possible reasons

1) Kira is not paying attention to the thread

2) Kira is Black Rock and does not want to NK herself

3) Kira knows who Black Rock is for some reason and does not want to NK her.

4) They had a legitimate reason for killing Zomba.

Over someone who their teammate suspected was L?

Has anyone else supported your theory that the note passed besides Zomba?

[DharmaHelper]

DH, I understand one of your deductions but the BR deduction (why would she not be killed instead of Zomba) lost me. Can you elaborate?

Eloh confessed she voted for BR because she thought BR was L. I assume she did this to point out to Kira "Hey, this is my thought as to who is L, so maybe NK her."

Except Kira did not take this advice, for one of several possible reasons

1) Kira is not paying attention to the thread

2) Kira is Black Rock and does not want to NK herself

3) Kira knows who Black Rock is for some reason and does not want to NK her.

4) They had a legitimate reason for killing Zomba.

Over someone who their teammate suspected was L?

Has anyone else supported your theory that the note passed besides Zomba?

Then why not simply kill me, the source of the theory?

[Marmot]

A good question. Then Kira might not want to draw attention to your theory by killing you, or you are in league with Kira.

That said, if your theory is correct, and Higuchi has the note, perhaps he's not interested in following Eloh's comments.