Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

[Canucklehead]

I was never on board with the LizKeen case, so I'm not voting there.
I had strongly considered voting Z, but I think SVS' assessment of her not likely having BTSC this game is pretty sound, so I won't vote there.
I thought Epi's case on LK was....not convincing, but I'm not sure why a bad Epi would push so hard against a player so early....considering a vote there.
LC is LC and I have no particular reason to think he's bad right now, but I don't know if I've ever read LC correctly. I'm not voting there unless something really compelling comes up.
TH seems like civ TH to me.
I think that MP/Bass is an interesting spot to look. I will reread there and maybe consider a vote.
I would consider a vote for Vomps.

What about dom?

I don't know what to think of Dom. He is reminding me somewhat of his play in Film Directors, in which he was bad but successfully convinced/shamed me into backing off of my suspicons on him. But other people have said he doesn't seem out of the ordinary to them, so I'm thinking that maybe this is just how Dom plays now, and I'm pinged by it only because I have (false?) memories of an older Dom playstyle that doesn't exist anymore. So I dunno what to think.

[Vompatti]

Did Vomps give a reason for his TH vote? I'm used to Vomps being kind of out there as a player, but I'm just a little surprised he would vote a silenced player without giving a reason. (Unless I missed the vote. There has been a lot going on)

I didn't know he was silenced because I didn't read the thread. I only voted for him because I had a feeling MM had hard evidence that he's bad.

[Canucklehead]

Did Vomps give a reason for his TH vote? I'm used to Vomps being kind of out there as a player, but I'm just a little surprised he would vote a silenced player without giving a reason. (Unless I missed the vote. There has been a lot going on)

I didn't know he was silenced because I didn't read the thread. I only voted for him because I had a feeling MM had hard evidence that he's bad.

Cool!

[Elohcin]

I think there is real merit to the possibility that the baddies might be laughing at us as all the louder people cut each other down. I would certainly be willing to consider a vote against:

A person, or
Vompatti, or
possibly canuck, or
maybe even Elo, who seems a lot quieter in content here than in RR.

If the criteria is who could be hiding.

If you vote me, you will be voting a civ. It takes me longer to have much of an opinion in full games as opposed to speed games, that's all. As the game gets smaller, I have an easier time wrapping my head around things. I am reading, following along, an absorbing all that is going on though.

[birdwithteeth11]

[quote="Zombarella"]BTW - You are the only other person I've met who watches the Black List. It really is a great show. I covet Liz's hair.

I watch the blacklist

I covet Tom Keen. I used to think he was nerdy but now that he's a bad boy he's kinda hot. I don't know anyone who watches it but you two.


SVS, you must be getting up as I go to bed.

I'm really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If I don't vote Zombarella and she gets lynched and flips bad then I'm going to be accused of being her teammate. If I vote her and she flips civvie then I'm helping lynch another civvie. This really sucks.

As a civvie you dont have to think in "what looks good", you have to say what you think and claim whatever you think even if it goes against whatever the rest of the thread thinks.
If they wanna lynch you for it, its they loss, they would lynch a civvie. But maybe your thoughts would be revisited later and they could help the civvies.
At least thats how i play when im civ. Thats why im usually a suspicion every game, and thats why y always tend to survive till the late stages of the game, cause the baddies know they can bring me up for suspicion.

The ONLY times i care about "how things look" and try to really appear civvie, is when im bad. As a baddie i try to be consistent and not to say things "out of tune".

I think the best thing to do for civvies is speak their mind even if they get super suspected because of it




Btw, where is daniel faraday??

I am here, it's been a busy week. And today is Early Release, which means I won't be back on here for the rest of the day.

It seems like everything right now is based on behind the scenes shenanigans, assumptions, and taking the word of people, so it's hard to pin anything down. I think Zomba is the most likely to illuminate us though, so I will *vote Zombarella* and if she comes back as a baddie, as I suspect, that will make things clearer.[/quote]
If she comes back a civ though, does that also illuminate things for you or not?

[Canucklehead]

I think there is real merit to the possibility that the baddies might be laughing at us as all the louder people cut each other down. I would certainly be willing to consider a vote against:

A person, or
Vompatti, or
possibly canuck, or
maybe even Elo, who seems a lot quieter in content here than in RR.

If the criteria is who could be hiding.

If you vote me, you will be voting a civ. It takes me longer to have much of an opinion in full games as opposed to speed games, that's all. As the game gets smaller, I have an easier time wrapping my head around things. I am reading, following along, an absorbing all that is going on though.

This is 100% true for me, too....except for the part about absorbing. I've pretty much reached my brain's maximum saturation/absorption level due to my prelims starting in two weeks, so I'm not really taking much in at this point.
Also, my role is not one tht I've really figured out what to do with yet, so that is also hindering my ability to sink my teeth into this game.

But yeah. I'm a civ.

[birdwithteeth11]

Did Vomps give a reason for his TH vote? I'm used to Vomps being kind of out there as a player, but I'm just a little surprised he would vote a silenced player without giving a reason. (Unless I missed the vote. There has been a lot going on)

I didn't know he was silenced because I didn't read the thread. I only voted for him because I had a feeling MM had hard evidence that he's bad.

Here you go, Zomba. If you want to vote for people who aren't reading the thread like myself obviously, then you might as well vote here in every game!

[Long Con]

I thought Epi's case on LK was....not convincing, but I'm not sure why a bad Epi would push so hard against a player so early....considering a vote there.
LC is LC and I have no particular reason to think he's bad right now, but I don't know if I've ever read LC correctly. I'm not voting there unless something really compelling comes up.

That's all you have to say about Epig? What about other cases that have been made against him?

Yes, that is all I have to say about Epi right now. None of the cases brought against him have stuck in my mind enough for me to comment on them.

You don't find it suspicious that Epignosis would ignore what he knows about MM and BR and instead go for the easy lynch of Metalmarsh? What he knew should have led him to believe Metalmarsh was being framed, except the thing is, Epig was doing the framing. Not to mention, the italicized portion sounds suspiciously like what LizKeen heard through the ear tubes, AND it sounds like something Epig would say. Cocky and believing people can be easily led.

I want to understand why no one else can see this. Is it that they don't believe that Epig knew that it was VERY unlikely that Metalmarsh would kill BR on Night one for the third or fourth time in recent history? I did quote something in my original case that clearly indicated that Epig was involved - Donner Mafia, Epig tells MM that he killed him for BR. And believe me when I say that I know every detail of this subject due to BR being my wife. I know what happened, what Epig knows, how MM felt about it. This is the truth, I just need enough people to see it and understand what it means.

[birdwithteeth11]

After reading and absorbing Zomba's posts from last night, her responses do not make me feel any better about her. To me, it feels like she just went and made a big case about the person she claims is the biggest proponent to get her lynched: SVS. And the only reason I could find is that she thinks it's because SVS wants whatever item(s) she has. And then when that didn't stick, she went to voting for low posters.

Also, thanks for still thinking I don't read the thread btw. I may not post a ton, but I make sure I read everything in any game I'm playing and think on it. If you equate low posting with not reading the thread though, that's your own fault.

Anyway, now that Zomba has had the chance to respond, and given how I feel about her response, I will go ahead and vote for her. I just think the evidence weighs too heavily on her. Her lynch should be fairly illuminating for where to go next IMO.

Votes Zomba

Linki: Sorry, LC. I've been so absorbed in Zomba and Lizkeen to a lesser extent that I haven't taken the time yet to look at Epig. Plus, with where my head is right now, I think a Zomba lynch is going to help me out more for where to look next. I do think him knowing the history between BR and MM NKing each other is intriguing though. I will read more into it in the coming days.

[Long Con]

After reading and absorbing Zomba's posts from last night, her responses do not make me feel any better about her. To me, it feels like she just went and made a big case about the person she claims is the biggest proponent to get her lynched: SVS. And the only reason I could find is that she thinks it's because SVS wants whatever item(s) she has. And then when that didn't stick, she went to voting for low posters.

Also, thanks for still thinking I don't read the thread btw. I may not post a ton, but I make sure I read everything in any game I'm playing and think on it. If you equate low posting with not reading the thread though, that's your own fault.

Anyway, now that Zomba has had the chance to respond, and given how I feel about her response, I will go ahead and vote for her. I just think the evidence weighs too heavily on her. Her lynch should be fairly illuminating for where to go next IMO.

Votes Zomba

Linki: Sorry, LC. I've been so absorbed in Zomba and Lizkeen to a lesser extent that I haven't taken the time yet to look at Epig. Plus, with where my head is right now, I think a Zomba lynch is going to help me out more for where to look next. I do think him knowing the history between BR and MM NKing each other is intriguing though. I will read more into it in the coming days.

A Zomba lynch was looking really good to me based on the newspaper and the Silver Buddha thing. Now it seems like S~V~S is not so sure any more... as someone who believed in her theory, it really gives me pause. It surprises me that a hunch about Zomb not having BTSC makes her doubt the whole theory. I guess if you think there's multiple Wills in the game it gets easier to believe they're unconnected, but the theory that the baddies planted the story expecting S~V~S to be dead just makes sense to me.

I'm not sure what to make of S~V~S' turnaround on Zomba. One way I'm seeing it is that she's an unsure non-baddie, the darker way of looking at it would be that S~V~S is a baddie and she knows Zomba won't flip Civ, so she's backing of in a Civvie fashion. It's been suggested that she's a Celestial, so I don't want to bring the wrath of the Holy Council down on my head. I just don't know which side S~V~S falls on, because I expected her to believe that the Silver Buddha theory would catch her a baddie.

[Long Con]

EBWOP "knows Zomba won't flip bad"... halfway through the second paragraph.

That's pretty important to the whole meaning of the sentence.

[S~V~S]

It was a theory, but her responses gave me pause. What can I say?

I still think the Buddha saved me. I am not so sure snymore that the will post pointed to a bad Zomba.

[Epignosis]

Epi, rather than asking you questions, can you link me in a vowelfree fashion to your thoughts on LC and MovingBass?

I see TH has voted for LC. I agree with Golden about Zomba, I don't love what she's saying, but when I really thought about it, I don't think she has BTSC.

N "lnk." pgnss plgzs, S~V~S. Cn Gldn hlp?

LC's bssssd wth m. pgnss cnnt ndrstnd hs tnnl vsn. pgnss hs nvr wtnssd ths bhvr frm LC bfr. Ths mks pgnss thnk LC hs nfrmtn rgrdng pgnss, bt sppsng LC ds, t's wrng.

MP gt rplcd, s pgnss thnks h ws bng hnst whn MP ws frstrtd. Thrfr pgnss thnks Bss = nt bd.

[Long Con]

Epi, rather than asking you questions, can you link me in a vowelfree fashion to your thoughts on LC and MovingBass?

I see TH has voted for LC. I agree with Golden about Zomba, I don't love what she's saying, but when I really thought about it, I don't think she has BTSC.

N "lnk." pgnss plgzs, S~V~S. Cn Gldn hlp?

LC's bssssd wth m. pgnss cnnt ndrstnd hs tnnl vsn. pgnss hs nvr wtnssd ths bhvr frm LC bfr. Ths mks pgnss thnk LC hs nfrmtn rgrdng pgnss, bt sppsng LC ds, t's wrng.

MP gt rplcd, s pgnss thnks h ws bng hnst whn MP ws frstrtd. Thrfr pgnss thnks Bss = nt bd.

No information unless you can call LizKeen's Ear Tubes information. And so you're admitting that IF I had information on you then I'd be trying to lynch you?

[rabbit8]

Didn't Epi actually say he thought is was finny BR was killed N1? How is that ignoring what happened? I must have missed something along the way.

[Long Con]

Didn't Epi actually say he thought is was finny BR was killed N1? How is that ignoring what happened? I must have missed something along the way.

Yes, he said that, and I've noted that. And that's all he said. He tried to lynch Metalmarsh instead of knowing it wouldn't be him. That's the point.

[fingersplints]

Epi, rather than asking you questions, can you link me in a vowelfree fashion to your thoughts on LC and MovingBass?

I see TH has voted for LC. I agree with Golden about Zomba, I don't love what she's saying, but when I really thought about it, I don't think she has BTSC.

N "lnk." pgnss plgzs, S~V~S. Cn Gldn hlp?

LC's bssssd wth m. pgnss cnnt ndrstnd hs tnnl vsn. pgnss hs nvr wtnssd ths bhvr frm LC bfr. Ths mks pgnss thnk LC hs nfrmtn rgrdng pgnss, bt sppsng LC ds, t's wrng.

MP gt rplcd, s pgnss thnks h ws bng hnst whn MP ws frstrtd. Thrfr pgnss thnks Bss = nt bd.

No "link." Epignosis apologizes. Can Golden help?

LC's bssssd with me. Epignosis cannot understand his tunnel vision.Epignosis has never witnessed this behavior from LC before. This makes Epignosis think he has information regarding Epignosis, but supposing LC does, it's wrong.

No got replaced, so Epignosis thinks he was being honest when MP was frustrates. therefore Epignosis thinks bass = not bad

Idk what bssssd is. I have to look back on Epi some more. I still think LC sounds worse to me then Epi

[fingersplints]

Also my phone autocorrected MP to no

[Black Rock]

Didn't Epi actually say he thought is was finny BR was killed N1? How is that ignoring what happened? I must have missed something along the way.

Yes, and he only used that to put doubt imo. He also knew that MM was proud to have not killed me in DN. That bothers me a bit.

With Epi I find him hard to read. I think he mixes truth with fiction no matter his alignment.

[Bullzeye]

I'm back, gonna catch up. I'm going to Wales this weekend but after that it's the Easter break so I've got a month off and should be more active from then on!

[juliets]

Didn't Epi actually say he thought is was finny BR was killed N1? How is that ignoring what happened? I must have missed something along the way.

Yes, and he only used that to put doubt imo. He also knew that MM was proud to have not killed me in DN. That bothers me a bit.

With Epi I find him hard to read. I think he mixes truth with fiction no matter his alignment.

BR, I'm not sure what you are saying is bothering you a bit - can you be a little more specific?

[Marmot]

Didn't Epi actually say he thought is was finny BR was killed N1? How is that ignoring what happened? I must have missed something along the way.

MM was proud to have not killed me in DN.

[Black Rock]

Didn't Epi actually say he thought is was finny BR was killed N1? How is that ignoring what happened? I must have missed something along the way.

Yes, and he only used that to put doubt imo. He also knew that MM was proud to have not killed me in DN. That bothers me a bit.

With Epi I find him hard to read. I think he mixes truth with fiction no matter his alignment.

BR, I'm not sure what you are saying is bothering you a bit - can you be a little more specific?

The way Epig was aware of the BR/MM day one kills and he didn't consider him to be civ where I was convinced he was civ based on that. It's just my opinion and I know not everyone plays like I do.

[juliets]

oh, i understand now - Thanks for explaining.

I'm having a hard time deciding who to vote for. I could go with a Vomps vote but I don't think I can vote Epi while his communication is crippled. I will try to go back over your cases LC to see if i see anything I didn't see the first time.

[S~V~S]

I asked for a link, Epi, since I did not want to ask you to talk, so put your ask golden snark away

I was hoping you would direct me to a post that reflected current attitudes on your part.

And yeah, splints, I see your point.

Linki. I think though that that is the kind of thing Epi would have done if bad, because it would have been unexpected, and most people project themselves and what they would or would not do when doing the woulda/coulda about someone else.

[fingersplints]

I could be down with a vomps vote too. I don't think MM had any information that TH was bad, and I don't know why Vomps would say it seemed like he did. plus he is admitting to not bothering to read. I don't agree with zombas low posting = not reading (like say in the case of bwt) but this one is clear
Problem is with that vote we may get a baddie but chances are he is probably just a dangerous uninterested civvie

[juliets]

Epi, rather than asking you questions, can you link me in a vowelfree fashion to your thoughts on LC and MovingBass?

I see TH has voted for LC. I agree with Golden about Zomba, I don't love what she's saying, but when I really thought about it, I don't think she has BTSC.

N "lnk." pgnss plgzs, S~V~S. Cn Gldn hlp?

LC's bssssd wth m. pgnss cnnt ndrstnd hs tnnl vsn. pgnss hs nvr wtnssd ths bhvr frm LC bfr. Ths mks pgnss thnk LC hs nfrmtn rgrdng pgnss, bt sppsng LC ds, t's wrng.

MP gt rplcd, s pgnss thnks h ws bng hnst whn MP ws frstrtd. Thrfr pgnss thnks Bss = nt bd.

No "link." Epignosis apologizes. Can Golden help?

LC's bssssd with me. Epignosis cannot understand his tunnel vision.Epignosis has never witnessed this behavior from LC before. This makes Epignosis think he has information regarding Epignosis, but supposing LC does, it's wrong.

No got replaced, so Epignosis thinks he was being honest when MP was frustrates. therefore Epignosis thinks bass = not bad

Idk what bssssd is. I have to look back on Epi some more. I still think LC sounds worse to me then Epi

Splints, what specific things have you seen that lead you to believe LC is worse than Epi?

[Epignosis]

I asked for a link, Epi, since I did not want to ask you to talk, so put your ask golden snark away

I was hoping you would direct me to a post that reflected current attitudes on your part.

And yeah, splints, I see your point.

Linki. I think though that that is the kind of thing Epi would have done if bad, because it would have been unexpected, and most people project themselves and what they would or would not do when doing the woulda/coulda about someone else.

Nt snrk! pgnss ddn't hv sch pst. Pst cntnng wht S~V~S wnts dsn't xst.

[fingersplints]

something is off about him. I think Epignosis is right, and that a civvie LC isn't this narrow minded. I don't know what to make of it. and as I said before, I think he had the most to gain from silencing TH.

[S~V~S]

OK Epi. Maybe I should have asked Golden

But thanks for answers

And yeah, splints, not loving Vomps 2 days in a row votes for TH.

Linki, I do think the Liz connection to TH being silenced was too obvious.

[Black Rock]

You haven't considered this a set up? LC as a civ can be narrow minded especially if he thinks he's right.

[fingersplints]

I have considered it.

[Black Rock]

Well, I think the suspicion surrounding LC is wrong. I also think Zomba is bad. Two unpopular opinions it would seem.

[rabbit8]

Didn't Epi actually say he thought is was finny BR was killed N1? How is that ignoring what happened? I must have missed something along the way.

Yes, he said that, and I've noted that. And that's all he said. He tried to lynch Metalmarsh instead of knowing it wouldn't be him. That's the point.

That's a really good point actually.

[Long Con]

something is off about him. I think Epignosis is right, and that a civvie LC isn't this narrow minded. I don't know what to make of it. and as I said before, I think he had the most to gain from silencing TH.

Well, I didn't silence TH, and I can't prove it either way, so that is what it is. Clearly TH thinks I was the one, using his voice as his vote.

Is a baddie LC this narrow-minded? Leading lynches on people he knows will turn up Civvie? Is that what I do when I'm a baddie?

[Canucklehead]

I thought Epi's case on LK was....not convincing, but I'm not sure why a bad Epi would push so hard against a player so early....considering a vote there.
LC is LC and I have no particular reason to think he's bad right now, but I don't know if I've ever read LC correctly. I'm not voting there unless something really compelling comes up.

That's all you have to say about Epig? What about other cases that have been made against him?

Yes, that is all I have to say about Epi right now. None of the cases brought against him have stuck in my mind enough for me to comment on them.

You don't find it suspicious that Epignosis would ignore what he knows about MM and BR and instead go for the easy lynch of Metalmarsh? What he knew should have led him to believe Metalmarsh was being framed, except the thing is, Epig was doing the framing. Not to mention, the italicized portion sounds suspiciously like what LizKeen heard through the ear tubes, AND it sounds like something Epig would say. Cocky and believing people can be easily led.

I want to understand why no one else can see this. Is it that they don't believe that Epig knew that it was VERY unlikely that Metalmarsh would kill BR on Night one for the third or fourth time in recent history? I did quote something in my original case that clearly indicated that Epig was involved - Donner Mafia, Epig tells MM that he killed him for BR. And believe me when I say that I know every detail of this subject due to BR being my wife. I know what happened, what Epig knows, how MM felt about it. This is the truth, I just need enough people to see it and understand what it means.

I didn't say I didn't find it suspicious, I said the case didn't stick in my head. Which is true. Nothing is sticking in me head right now, because my entire brain is utterly saturated with crippling anxiety and fear of failure because I have a career-defining series of examinations beginning in two weeks.

But now that you've very kindly reiterated your points: I mean, I guess what you're seeing as damning isn't quite as evocative to me. I'll take your word for it that the whole MM/BR rivalry is something that Epi is aware of, even acutely so. I guess where I don't quite buy your argument is that knowing that MM would be very unlikely to kill BR does not mean that other people on MM's team might have overruled him. I mean, obviously this WASN'T the case (since MM was good), but prior to that revelation I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for someone to simultaneously believe that MM would not personally vote to kill BR, but could still be a member of a team that would do so.
I guess maybe because I'm not as intimately involved with the details and intricacies of the BR/MM/Epi triangle that his willingness to vote MM just didn't set off alarms bells like it does for you. But I'm not discounting your assertion here, it's just not one I would have come to on my own. I actually also feel uneasy about Epi, so your insights are interesting.

Mostly, though, I want to lynch Vomps.

[Long Con]

If MM were on the team that killed BR then BR would consider it MM killing her.

[Long Con]

Vomps' crime is being Vomps, right? Not contributing much, acting weird? Low posting?

[Marmot]

"I'd rather trust a man who doesn't shout what he's found."

"I'd rather trust a country man than a town man."

I was listening to that album, and I just now realized what you were quoting.

[S~V~S]

Vomps' crime is being Vomps, right? Not contributing much, acting weird? Low posting?

Such voting consistency is UNLIKE him.

[Long Con]

Vomps' crime is being Vomps, right? Not contributing much, acting weird? Low posting?

Such voting consistency is UNLIKE him.

He does seem more focused than usual. Maybe he's the one who silenced TH.


Vomps, why the TH focus?

[Bullzeye]

She said a lot of things I think more experienced players would have told her not to say. The No U start, and the low poster finish are things a bad team would have told her was a mistake. I think this is her first non-BTS game.

I've been thinking along these lines ever since the "BF ruined my role!" post. I think a baddie team would be better at helping a new-ish player react to a potential info reveal.

I could be down with a vomps vote too. I don't think MM had any information that TH was bad, and I don't know why Vomps would say it seemed like he did. plus he is admitting to not bothering to read. I don't agree with zombas low posting = not reading (like say in the case of bwt) but this one is clear
Problem is with that vote we may get a baddie but chances are he is probably just a dangerous uninterested civvie

Didn't he just say that he thought MM made a good case? I didn't think he was saying MM had info. He said "hard evidence" but that could just mean evidence from the thread. I don't think TH is bad, so I don't agree with his vote, but Vomp doesn't seem any different to usual. I don't understand why there's suddenly a thing about him.

[Epignosis]

"I'd rather trust a man who doesn't shout what he's found."

"I'd rather trust a country man than a town man."

I was listening to that album, and I just now realized what you were quoting.

[juliets]

Who are you thinking about voting Bullz?

[Canucklehead]

Vomps' crime is being Vomps, right? Not contributing much, acting weird? Low posting?

Yes. Being Vomps is a serious crime.

[Long Con]

Did Vomps give a reason for his TH vote? I'm used to Vomps being kind of out there as a player, but I'm just a little surprised he would vote a silenced player without giving a reason. (Unless I missed the vote. There has been a lot going on)

I didn't know he was silenced because I didn't read the thread. I only voted for him because I had a feeling MM had hard evidence that he's bad.

Ok, there's that post. I guess Vomps already answered what I asked, although it's not very strong. MM's plea for someone to believe him about TH was pretty strong though. Strong emotionally, not strong with evidence and reasons. Vomps seems to be carrying on the No U of a dead man.

[Bullzeye]

Who are you thinking about voting Bullz?

Haven't decided yet. I'm currently in the library trying to juggle three things at once. Might revisit the group I said probably holds at least one baddie in a bit.

[juliets]

LC I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, I did re-read your case on Epi and I see your point about the BR/MM/Epi/LC issue with respect to MM voting or not voting BR. The problem I'm having is it's just not enough for me to vote Epi, I don't feel as strongly about it as you do at the moment, and even if I did I wouldn't vote Epi while he can't properly respond. Now if things start to add up about Epi I could easily change my mind.

[juliets]

Just to clarify, voting or not voting wasn't the best phrase to use. It's really voting or not voting within the baddie group to lynch BR.

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

For the record I'm not silenced, to the surprise of not very many.

As for Zomb, yeah I'm conflicted about that.

Have you ever been silenced?

There was actually one game not too long ago where I got silenced every second day.