Harry Stephen Keeler [ENDGAME]

#4002

Congrats civvies

#4003

My avatar is a Celestial Troll, lol. Seemed fitting

#4004

Yay civs. Im glad we pulled it off..
LLama why did me and MM switch?

#4005

Grats civvies, well done! This was a really exciting and entertaining game. I loved my time as a member of Team Obvious.

#4006

Going into this, I figured this would be an uphill battle. With five civilian-friendly independents with BTSC, plus Oliver Oliver, who could gain BTSC with anyone of those an create a civilian network of unprecedented proportions, I figured we'd put on a good show, and lose quickly.

One post Black Rock 1.0 posted made it clear that she was Oliver Oliver, so we removed her first. We had the Celestials pegged by Night 2 or Day 3, even down the exact roles (Golden helped with us figuring out the roles). They became our next targets, naturally.

Zomb had a lynch stop, so we were not concerned with her flipping, but she wasn't around, and come to find out, she hadn't adjusted her DST settings (I send the PM twice a year for a reason, people!), so I tried to save her anyway. I figured her lynch would be my downfall, but folks strangely went after Sophie instead.

After my lynch, I was dismayed to discover there was more BTSC among the civilians, and apparently more reasons for the civilians to vouch for one another. It made for a rather impossible endgame scenario for us in my opinion.

And for the record, I have never smirked about civilians not winning on this site.

#4007

For the record, we always intended to kill Celestials if we found them because a 5-person btsc group that is basically an extension of the civs presents a huge threat. We killed Golden not knowing who he was, DP to avoid giving credibility to his team, TH because he was a threat, and Splints just because she was a Celestial. Sorry that it seemed to really upset you guys but I don't see how else we could have played that.

#4008

Why did the indies become your targets? We were ready & willing to work with you.

That made no sense to us, tbh.

#4009

It turned a large BTS group AGAINST you.

#4010

S~V~S wrote:Why did the indies become your targets? We were ready & willing to work with you.

That made no sense to us, tbh.

We had no way of knowing that, and the easier thing for you to do would be play civ, so we assumed you would be. When you started making yourselves obvious, it became a concern.

#4011

S~V~S wrote:Why did the indies become your targets? We were ready & willing to work with you.

That made no sense to us, tbh.

Mafia: Outnumber Civilians and Celestials to Win

We needed you out just as much as we needed the civilians out. Your BTSC made you higher priority targets.

#4012

yay civvies ^-^

I couldn't have thought up a better group of circus people if I tried.

hugs:

linki - I'm not sure why the celestials 'naturally' became your next target. We were doing more harm then good and you guys could have won with us. Had you stopped after killing Golden this would have been a very different game and you guys probably would have won.
I never had BR down as Oliver Oliver and til the end thought that role was alive so I don't think that was that obvious either.

#4013

Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Why did the indies become your targets? We were ready & willing to work with you.

That made no sense to us, tbh.
Mafia: Outnumber Civilians and Celestials to Win

We needed you out just as much as we needed the civilians out. Your BTSC made you higher priority targets.

You needed ONE of us out to win. Not all 5.

#4014

S~V~S wrote:It turned a large BTS group AGAINST you.

It turned one angry mama bear against us.

#4015

Yeah... you guys should have let us stick around, I think that's where you went wrong. The Celestials were basically wrong about everything at the start of the game. Killing one or two of us was prudent, but exterminating us was pretty cheesy and unnecessary imo. We thought it was obvious that we were willing to work with you guys, but I guess you didn't feel the same way

And not sure if you saw the numbers, but we were one more civvie lynch away from a shared Celestial/baddies victory if you guys had NKed a civilian instead of me. SVS had two extra votes, we could have overwhelmed the civs :P

That said I think all the Celestials had a great time this game. We were upset to lose but it was truly fun all the way to the end. We just couldn't figure out why it seemed like the baddies were willingly targeting us when their first concern should have been taking out civilians.

#4016

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Yay civs. Im glad we pulled it off..
LLama why did me and MM switch?

Every location had a plot twist associated with it. When you got to the proper location, two roles switched. The roles were selected at random, so it could easily have involved a baddie as well, which would have been an interesting change. One of the things I liked about this game was how, if a few things had gone differently, we could have had a very different outcome.

#4017

SVS how did you like that curse? lol

#4018

Which one, I got cursed a few times. Like every time I got silenced, lol.

#4019

I hate that you didn't win S~V~S. You deserved every every bit of a win. It's not the same to me without you.

#4020

fingersplints wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Why did the indies become your targets? We were ready & willing to work with you.

That made no sense to us, tbh.
Mafia: Outnumber Civilians and Celestials to Win

We needed you out just as much as we needed the civilians out. Your BTSC made you higher priority targets.
You needed ONE of us out to win. Not all 5.

That's only true if we 1) knew you wouldn't try to lynch us (and you didn't know who we were, so you couldn't guarantee that if you wanted to), and 2) none of us ever got lynched or died from other causes.

#4021

the one where you had to compliment epi.

#4022

Yeah Epi but you guys took out more Celestials than baddies that had been lynched at the time. Forward-thinking baddies would have prioritized their kills

We were being obvious, but that was the point. You could have avoided us and taken out more useful targets, and only killed Celestials if you needed to.

#4023

Given that you knew who we all were, and we even tried to make a deal with you to tell you who we all were it would have been pretty easy for you to just NK one of us if the numbers tied up again, but

oh well

I had a blast and I am very happy with how things turned out.

#4024

Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:It turned a large BTS group AGAINST you.
It turned one angry mama bear against us.

No, I was the mouthpiece. Almost every post I made was discussed at length. I was an angry momma bear, but I was channeling my dead cubs.

We did not actively try to lynch any of you until you killed TH. Before that, we actively tried to NOT lynch Epi, for instance. Zomba, too.

Linki @Bass~ I thought Eloh or Dom sent that. I had fun with that since due to also being silenced, I could ONLY post that. I liked Llamas approach to multi targeting this game, and will adopt it myself in future games.

#4025

fingersplints wrote:yay civvies ^-^

I couldn't have thought up a better group of circus people if I tried. hugs:

linki - I'm not sure why the celestials 'naturally' became your next target. We were doing more harm then good and you guys could have won with us. Had you stopped after killing Golden this would have been a very different game and you guys probably would have won.
I never had BR down as Oliver Oliver and til the end thought that role was alive so I don't think that was that obvious either.

Thank you Splint, I didn't think it was obvious either. I was just trying to get Zomba lynched for being such an obvious baddie. Got me killed night one though. I found it so hard to get back into the game as a baddie. I stayed on Zomba.

Great game. I did have lots of fun.

Little awkward when I came into BTSC to face my killers.

I targeted TH night one, that would have set up a nice little BTSC group for me.

#4026

I want to stress the fact that I had an awesome time this game. Thanks for the fun, Llama, and all my celestial loser friends

#4027

Also, I figured out Eloh's role early on. The way she kept asking about who had what made me think she was a thief (she was, as I said, "casing people rather than making cases"), and we knew she wasn't the Celestial thief.

#4028

juliets wrote:I hate that you didn't win S~V~S. You deserved every every bit of a win. It's not the same to me without you.

When they killed TH, they took all of our items

I was playing totally for revenge at that point. But Thanks

it was a lot of pressure, playing for all the civs when i knew I could not win lol.

#4029

S~V~S wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:It turned a large BTS group AGAINST you.
It turned one angry mama bear against us.
No, I was the mouthpiece. Almost every post I made was discussed at length. I was an angry momma bear, but I was channeling my dead cubs.

We did not actively try to lynch any of you until you killed TH. Before that, we actively tried to NOT lynch Epi, for instance. Zomba, too.

Linki @Bass~ I thought Eloh or Dom sent that. I had fun with that since due to also being silenced, I could ONLY post that. I liked Llamas approach to multi targeting this game, and will adopt it myself in future games.

I wish I had of seen that earlier. It wasn't until late game I thought of it as a possibility. By then it was too late. We almost didn't kill TH that night. He said something I forget that was freaking me out.

#4030

I wanted to see the look on the baddies'' faces every time they killed a Celestial and didn't a single item

Until they killed me and got like 10 of them, lol.

#4031

Turnip Head wrote:Yeah Epi but you guys took out more Celestials than baddies that had been lynched at the time. Forward-thinking baddies would have prioritized their kills We were being obvious, but that was the point. You could have avoided us and taken out more useful targets, and only killed Celestials if you needed to.

We were prioritizing.

fingersplints wrote:yay civvies ^-^

I couldn't have thought up a better group of circus people if I tried. hugs:

linki - I'm not sure why the celestials 'naturally' became your next target. We were doing more harm then good and you guys could have won with us. Had you stopped after killing Golden this would have been a very different game and you guys probably would have won.
I never had BR down as Oliver Oliver and til the end thought that role was alive so I don't think that was that obvious either.

Day 1, Black Rock 1.0 made a post that hinted that Zombarella wasn't Oliver Oliver. Bingo. Bang.

Turnip Head wrote:I want to stress the fact that I had an awesome time this game. Thanks for the fun, Llama, and all my celestial loser friends

This very much. Though I was dismayed at the outcome, I had a lot of fun. Thank you host.

#4032

Turnip Head wrote:I wanted to see the look on the baddies'' faces every time they killed a Celestial and didn't a single item Until they killed me and got like 10 of them, lol.

How did you have them all?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:the one where you had to compliment epi.

That was hilarious. Must have been real hard for her to come up with compliments. :P

#4033

Black Rock wrote:
fingersplints wrote:I targeted TH night one, that would have set up a nice little BTSC group for me.

We so desperately wanted your role to target us. SVS spent a lot of the time asking for you to

#4034

Epignosis wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Yeah Epi but you guys took out more Celestials than baddies that had been lynched at the time. Forward-thinking baddies would have prioritized their kills We were being obvious, but that was the point. You could have avoided us and taken out more useful targets, and only killed Celestials if you needed to.
We were prioritizing.

fingersplints wrote:yay civvies ^-^

I couldn't have thought up a better group of circus people if I tried. hugs:

linki - I'm not sure why the celestials 'naturally' became your next target. We were doing more harm then good and you guys could have won with us. Had you stopped after killing Golden this would have been a very different game and you guys probably would have won.
I never had BR down as Oliver Oliver and til the end thought that role was alive so I don't think that was that obvious either.
Day 1, Black Rock 1.0 made a post that hinted that Zombarella wasn't Oliver Oliver. Bingo. Bang.

Turnip Head wrote:I want to stress the fact that I had an awesome time this game. Thanks for the fun, Llama, and all my celestial loser friends
This very much. Though I was dismayed at the outcome, I had a lot of fun. Thank you host.

Like I said, I was not hinting that I just wanted people to see she was bad. You didn't have to kill me night one.

#4035

BR we could give items to one another. So we kept giving them to someone who wasnt silenced. The night you killed TH we thought you for sure would continue with the pattern and kill SVS, so we gave them all to TH.

so yea, getting NK'd sucked. but TH getting NK'd was so much worse.

#4036

Black Rock wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Yeah Epi but you guys took out more Celestials than baddies that had been lynched at the time. Forward-thinking baddies would have prioritized their kills We were being obvious, but that was the point. You could have avoided us and taken out more useful targets, and only killed Celestials if you needed to.
We were prioritizing.

fingersplints wrote:yay civvies ^-^

I couldn't have thought up a better group of circus people if I tried. hugs:

linki - I'm not sure why the celestials 'naturally' became your next target. We were doing more harm then good and you guys could have won with us. Had you stopped after killing Golden this would have been a very different game and you guys probably would have won.
I never had BR down as Oliver Oliver and til the end thought that role was alive so I don't think that was that obvious either.
Day 1, Black Rock 1.0 made a post that hinted that Zombarella wasn't Oliver Oliver. Bingo. Bang.

Turnip Head wrote:I want to stress the fact that I had an awesome time this game. Thanks for the fun, Llama, and all my celestial loser friends
This very much. Though I was dismayed at the outcome, I had a lot of fun. Thank you host.
Like I said, I was not hinting that I just wanted people to see she was bad. You didn't have to kill me night one.

Yes hell we did!

#4037

fingersplints wrote:
Black Rock wrote:
fingersplints wrote:I targeted TH night one, that would have set up a nice little BTSC group for me.
We so desperately wanted your role to target us. SVS spent a lot of the time asking for you to

I was so sad to lose that role. It was the first time I had a role like that. I was so excited. I even begged Llama to rez me. When I replaced in I asked to keep my old role. My new role was vanilla baddie.

linki Splints: I didn't want to kill SVS
Linki Epig: I owe you one. :P

#4038

llama, i loved the game especially the newspaper part of it. I don't know why but every night I got excited to see the paper the next day. My role was fun, it was exciting up to the last moment and you were great at giving us those posts on time. I really thank you for that. I will gladly play future llama games, really enjoyed this one.

#4039

Man we item juggled so well the whole game, had only one of us been alive we all would have won so long as we had those items. Losing TH and the goods was a death knell. I went all William Wallace lol.

Linki, YES!! Llama was an awesome host, he did a good job hosting and the game was an engrossing one.

#4040

By the way, in case it wasn't said, the Millionaire needed to take ten votes to have a vote increase of one.

#4041

Epignosis wrote:By the way, in case it wasn't said, the Millionaire needed to take ten votes to have a vote increase of one.

That's why I was Vanilla.

#4042

Even though i knew you were bad, it really was like kicking a kitten.

#4043

Good game everyone! I had fun and am a bit peeved that I didn't win.

But alas--- I played my hand with BR too early. Though, given the writing on the wall, maybe she could have let me live.

I knew Zomba had the vault because I checked her. I also checked BR and discovered that she had the safe. Since splints never got it after she died-- I knew BR had to be bad. I tried to create a case out of this, and I'm sorry if I sucked at it BR. I also was told she had more than one item NOT in the safe.

Thx to hosts and players. I had a wonderful time.

#4044

S~V~S wrote:Even though i knew you were bad, it really was like kicking a kitten.

What is voting for me like?

#4045

Dom you so persevered that it put the doubt in my head about BR. Why is he asking that question? Why is he so sure Vompati doesn't have the items? etc. You turned my head and thats all it took along with SVS.

#4046

juliets wrote:Dom you so persevered that it put the doubt in my head about BR. Why is he asking that question? Why is he so sure Vompati doesn't have the items? etc. You turned my head and thats all it took along with SVS.

I might have won if I had waited just a day or two longer before bringing it up

#4047

Dom, splints didn't have the safe because she gave it to me

BR didn't get the safe until I died. In fact, Golden, DP and splintsy ALL were able to successfully die holding none of our oriental treasures or other items until the baddies whacked me. We played an intense game of hot potato and it worked right up until the end.

#4048

Here are some of the things I expected to happen, that didn't happen.

1. I expected the player with the Reed Bardeen role to play a more audacious game and try to take a few votes. In hindsight, ten was probably too many, I should have made it lower, but I think in the hands of an Epignosis, a Turnip Head, or even a Vompatti, that role could have been dangerous.

2. I expected people to try to vote earlier to get items, and I expected people to try to deduce the Celestials by who was voting early. I guess the obviousness of the Celestials pre-empted that though. Casimir Jech was able to get a lot of benefits by trading items, but Rabbit spent most of the game without one. He never voted first to try to get one.

#4049

S~V~S wrote:Even though i knew you were bad, it really was like kicking a kitten.

I thought I was doing really well. I was mostly truthful with Ear Tube info. I mean you guys did sound like baddies trying to string up Bullz and Dom.

SVS it was you discussing dogs then?

Also I was telling the truth about not having an item for most of the game. I didn't get an item until I killed LC (which I will NEVER hear the end of). I think it's the first time I killed him and he was not happy with me at all.

Epig had me convinced that we couldn't work together. He was our leader *points finger*.

Dom wrote:Good game everyone! I had fun and am a bit peeved that I didn't win. But alas--- I played my hand with BR too early. Though, given the writing on the wall, maybe she could have let me live.

I knew Zomba had the vault because I checked her. I also checked BR and discovered that she had the safe. Since splints never got it after she died-- I knew BR had to be bad. I tried to create a case out of this, and I'm sorry if I sucked at it BR. I also was told she had more than one item NOT in the safe.

Thx to hosts and players. I had a wonderful time.

I had the safe? Well that was one item I forgot about. I killed you because you were calling me a liar and your case was not a case. You upset me. :P I was going to die anyways, you might as well waited until after. I probably would have killed you anyways because it was between you and SVS and I didn't want to kill SVS. I was feeling too guilty at the time to kill her. I'm not a baddie at heart.

thellama73 wrote:Here are some of the things I expected to happen, that didn't happen.

1. I expected the player with the Reed Bardeen role to play a more audacious game and try to take a few votes. In hindsight, ten was probably too many, I should have made it lower, but I think in the hands of an Epignosis, a Turnip Head, or even a Vompatti, that role could have been dangerous.

2. I expected people to try to vote earlier to get items, and I expected people to try to deduce the Celestials by who was voting early. I guess the obviousness of the Celestials pre-empted that though. Casimir Jech was able to get a lot of benefits by trading items, but Rabbit spent most of the game without one. He never voted first to try to get one.

Sorry for not playing the role right. I did not want heat at all. I was fine being vanilla. 10 was a scary number without getting lynched.

#4050

Locations and Twists:
22nd St. - The initial place people get items. Upon return, the players learn the names of everyone who has been imprisoned by Chief O'Toole.
Archer Ave. - Wah Hung Fung's Huose where the players can ask question about items and learn info. No one seemed very interested in taking advantage of this.
Michigan Ave. - A random player is named in the will of another random player, inheriting all their stuff when they die. It never occured to me that this would be confused with the other will in the item list. In HSK novels, there is always AT LEAST one crazy will.
Van Buren St. - Two random players switch roles.
State St. - A item is a forgery. In this case, it was the will named on Michigan Ave.
Wabash Ave. - The auction house where people can sell items.
Dearborn St. - A random player fakes his death and reappears the next cycle.
Randolph St. - Two random players are long lost twins and gain BTSC.
Clark St. - Red herring. No twist.

Linki BR: I did not mean to say you didn't play the role RIGHT, you just didn't play it as I expected, which is very much a different thing.

Who iced Dom?