The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[Bass_the_Clever]

TH do you believe epi about elo?

I don't. Elohcin was equally as inactive in LMS yesterday, though she did offer an explanation over there, and not here.

What don't you believe exactly?

I don't believe she needs to be lynched.

[Sophie]

Which jokes are you referring to?

Monkey Boys jokes? Epi searching for a sidekick? Or other?

A bit of both really. I always see day 0 as a doss, good for a laugh but not much else. I know I'm far from alone in that opinion. So it surprises me that so much seems to be being made out of so little.

No one is making it a big thing. Epignosis hasn't even really responded to it. I am not aggressively pursuing him. (Likely because there isn't a vote this period, but still :P ) It's not possible you are both bad two games in a row is it?

Sorry BF, did I touch a nerve there? Awfully defensive for someone who isn't being directly called out.

You're awfully dismissive of an idea that you shouldn't be opposed to. Whether it's what episode did or not, you can't deny that the baddies will be trying to signal to eachother.

I have to say i agree with bf here. His thoughts about baddies trying to signal eachother has merit ansmd shouldnt be instantly dissmissed.

Besides this, and epi weird call of attention, and llama being llama, i dont think that much has been going on

[Sophie]

Sorry for typos im on phone

[Roxy]

This is why I enjoy your company, you keep a cool open mind and perspective. Can you further explain why you don't find bullz dismissive?

I do not think Bullz was singling any one point out and seemed to be disagreeing in general (about people finding suspicions Day 0) but not dismissing yours or anyone else's for that matter. Now I think he is just having a little fun with you tbh.

[Roxy]

Ooopps that quote in my post is blindfaeths

[Mister Rearranger]

Chapter 1: The Case Is Open

It just so happened that one of the recipients of the mystery man’s visit was Hartley Rathaway, better known as the Pied Piper. Unbeknownst to his former partners in crime, The Rogues, Hartley had cleaned up his act in the past few years, after beginning a relationship with Detective David Singh. Hartley had found new respect for his colleague Barry Allen for keeping his romantic involvement a secret and vouching for him at the Department despite his shady background.

The note left for him by the stranger asked him to perform a very simple task. He was to choose 1 letter out of 5. No following rules were included, no chance to see his visitor again and reveal his answer. How strange…

Piper immediately showed the letter to Singh and Barry. The three men were baffled, debating the best course of action. Was this stranger a threat? Or was he simply another resident of the twin cities who was ever so slightly off his rocker? Perhaps it was just a prank of some kind? Hartley chuckled and said he picked a letter anyways, hoping their mysterious visitor would return and he’d win a prize.

The group was interrupted when a commotion broke out in the holding cells. Barry rushed down to see the jailbirds collectively mashing their hands to the walls of their cells, drawing out symbols…in what appeared to be their own blood. Hurriedly, Detective Singh recovered the keys to the cells and began calming the prisoners down. Barry had seen a lot in his time as The Flash, having met many a dangerous criminal who could also read minds, both on his own and as a part of the Justice League, so he recognized the symptoms immediately. Hell, Hartley himself once made a horde of rats perform a crude rendition of a flash mob at the Flash Museum celebrity banquet, just to send a message. But a Rogue would never kill helpless people, and this was on a whole different scale. The intent was not only malicious, but specific. The perpetrator was leaving a message for everyone in the city, Hartley included.

In each of the 5 holding cells throughout the Central City precinct (as well as 20 of the maximum security cells at Iron Heights on the other side of the river, Barry would later discover), lines were drawn across the walls, resembling a word puzzle. A name was scrawled above each one. Each bloody code had one thing in common with the others. The letter “S” appeared throughout.

Barry was shocked to see one of the names was his own! He took note that there were no word puzzles to be solved under his name, just a very chilling message. It called him out on being The Flash, and revealed how he’d been working on the side to catch Bart’s killer, without the Department’s permission. Barry wiped the message away at incredible speed, while nobody was looking.

Pied Piper left in a hurry when he saw the content of the messages. He had to warn the Rogues. Even if he worked on the other side of the law now, he still considered the group his friends and when he saw secrets about them being spilled in blood, he had to act fast.

Who was behind this dishonorable act? Was it one of his own? Was it the man who visited him last night? Questions shot in and out of the costumed vigilante’s head, ringing like bells. Hartley was sure of one thing. A man like Captain Cold won’t ask questions before shooting if he finds out somebody is trying to cause trouble in his town.

Who’s bleeding the citizens of Central City dry?
You have 48 hours to vote!

*Starting locations are being sent out...now! I've gotta resize the darn map though. D:

[Turnip Head]

TH do you believe epi about elo?

Not really. I'd like to hear her response to Epi, but I'm far from convinced.

[Marmot]

As has already been declared, votes are changeable this game.

[Marmot]

TH do you believe epi about elo?

I don't. Elohcin was equally as inactive in LMS yesterday, though she did offer an explanation over there, and not here.

What don't you believe exactly?

I don't believe you want to lynch her because she is disinterested. You didn't have a single word to say about her until after I pointed out that she hadn't checked in, and after she commented on her Day 0 vote choice. You immediately said, "I want to lynch Elohcin", but then waited to offer any sort of explanation. I see this as a method to distract from your previous advertisement for a sidekick since that comment drew some heat. Do you still want to lynch Elohcin?

[Epignosis]

TH do you believe epi about elo?

I don't. Elohcin was equally as inactive in LMS yesterday, though she did offer an explanation over there, and not here.

What don't you believe exactly?

I don't believe you want to lynch her because she is disinterested. You didn't have a single word to say about her until after I pointed out that she hadn't checked in, and after she commented on her Day 0 vote choice. You immediately said, "I want to lynch Elohcin", but then waited to offer any sort of explanation. I see this as a method to distract from your previous advertisement for a sidekick since that comment drew some heat. Do you still want to lynch Elohcin?

So you think me suspecting Elohcin of not being an old rogue based on reasons beyond her being busy (she is always busy) and not immediately offering those reasons is an attempt to distract people from something I kept doing on Day 0?

Interesting.

Do you have a vested interest in keeping someone alive who probably isn't an old rogue?

[Roxy]

Epi - I do not believe that on Day 0 with one word and one letter you can say with any degree of certainty that Elo is not an Old Rogue -wife or no.
MM is right you are distracting from yourself with Elo and shame on you !

[S~V~S]

I would like to submit my application to become Epi's sidekick!

Does this still interest you, TH? Just curious.

Linki #,Epi, I think your math is vague enough to exclude her, and almost everyone, from most groups.

[Epignosis]

Epi - I do not believe that on Day 0 with one word and one letter you can say with any degree of certainty that Elo is not an Old Rogue -wife or no.
MM is right you are distracting from yourself with Elo and shame on you !

How am I distracting from myself when I have done nothing but bring attention my way?

Do you think Elohcin is even reading the thread?

[DharmaHelper]

Voted for Llama

[Mister Rearranger]

Ok, starting locations should be out. If you did not get one, please PM me. While I go work on fixing the fancy map in a better version of Photoshop and on a better PC, I've sent everyone the preliminary map to reference. It's the exact same as the map I'll be posting, the only thing that's changed is the locations/texture will look a little better and the text for each will be more legible.

Here's the prelim for now. I'll link to it in the OP as well.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu19 ... MapPic.jpg

[S~V~S]

The tildes are up.

[Spacedaisy]

DH, did you say why llama?

[Long Con]

Barry Allen – An intelligent forensic scientist and the first Flash. Barry Role Checks a dead player every night, also picking a letter from that player’s name. The chosen letter is solved in all secret role descriptions.

So... what letter would we like Barry Allen to pick tonight, for revealed secrets? I would like to go with a vowel, maybe an A or an E.

[DharmaHelper]

DH, did you say why llama?

I didn't.

[Spacedaisy]

Did you want to?

[DharmaHelper]

Did you want to?

I don't think he's a civvie. I don't like his whole Day 0 schtick, it got annoying very quickly. Also, I noticed he didn't berate anyone for any logical fallacies throughout the entire duration of Day 0. People were jumping to conclusions all over the place and Llama did not voice any opposition to it.

[Spacedaisy]

Ok. I was half expecting you to just say no, lol.

[Roxy]

Epi - I do not believe that on Day 0 with one word and one letter you can say with any degree of certainty that Elo is not an Old Rogue -wife or no.
MM is right you are distracting from yourself with Elo and shame on you !

How am I distracting from myself when I have done nothing but bring attention my way?

Do you think Elohcin is even reading the thread?

You are distracting from yourself with your "lynch Elo she is not an old rogue" thereby making people look at Elo and your record at reading her.

She could be reading the thread and keeping up but not posting as its day 0 and tbh it was a lot of ot talk. Do you think she has been reading the thread? Do you know everything she does all day while you are at work? What does her reading/not reading the thread have to do with you calling her out after she only posted one word and one letter - also knowing in large games she tends to be quieter until the number of players dwindle a bit?

[Marmot]

TH do you believe epi about elo?

I don't. Elohcin was equally as inactive in LMS yesterday, though she did offer an explanation over there, and not here.

What don't you believe exactly?

I don't believe you want to lynch her because she is disinterested. You didn't have a single word to say about her until after I pointed out that she hadn't checked in, and after she commented on her Day 0 vote choice. You immediately said, "I want to lynch Elohcin", but then waited to offer any sort of explanation. I see this as a method to distract from your previous advertisement for a sidekick since that comment drew some heat. Do you still want to lynch Elohcin?

So you think me suspecting Elohcin of not being an old rogue based on reasons beyond her being busy (she is always busy) and not immediately offering those reasons is an attempt to distract people from something I kept doing on Day 0?

Interesting.

Do you have a vested interest in keeping someone alive who probably isn't an old rogue?

The Old Rogues are civilians and need the New Rogues and Grodd dead.

The Independent Rogues just need to survive.

The Arch-Villains have unknown win conditions (sound familiar?).

The Detectives need to imprison the New Rogues.



Aside from Grodd, who from these groups do I need dead?

[rabbit8]

Ok. I was half expecting you to just say no, lol.

Me too.

[blindfaeth]

Barry Allen – An intelligent forensic scientist and the first Flash. Barry Role Checks a dead player every night, also picking a letter from that player’s name. The chosen letter is solved in all secret role descriptions.

So... what letter would we like Barry Allen to pick tonight, for revealed secrets? I would like to go with a vowel, maybe an A or an E.

I agree.

Oh, look. Epignosis has an E in it. It also has an N and an S.

RSTLNE

[blindfaeth]

Did you want to?

I don't think he's a civvie. I don't like his whole Day 0 schtick, it got annoying very quickly. Also, I noticed he didn't berate anyone for any logical fallacies throughout the entire duration of Day 0. People were jumping to conclusions all over the place and Llama did not voice any opposition to it.

I don't know that I've ever seen llama voice opposition to logical fallacies? Can you give examples?

[DharmaHelper]

Did you want to?

I don't think he's a civvie. I don't like his whole Day 0 schtick, it got annoying very quickly. Also, I noticed he didn't berate anyone for any logical fallacies throughout the entire duration of Day 0. People were jumping to conclusions all over the place and Llama did not voice any opposition to it.

I don't know that I've ever seen llama voice opposition to logical fallacies? Can you give examples?

Literally the last game we played together, Death Note Mafia.

[DharmaHelper]

We being he and I, for clarity's sake.

[blindfaeth]

TH do you believe epi about elo?

I don't. Elohcin was equally as inactive in LMS yesterday, though she did offer an explanation over there, and not here.

What don't you believe exactly?

I don't believe you want to lynch her because she is disinterested. You didn't have a single word to say about her until after I pointed out that she hadn't checked in, and after she commented on her Day 0 vote choice. You immediately said, "I want to lynch Elohcin", but then waited to offer any sort of explanation. I see this as a method to distract from your previous advertisement for a sidekick since that comment drew some heat. Do you still want to lynch Elohcin?

So you think me suspecting Elohcin of not being an old rogue based on reasons beyond her being busy (she is always busy) and not immediately offering those reasons is an attempt to distract people from something I kept doing on Day 0?

Interesting.

Do you have a vested interest in keeping someone alive who probably isn't an old rogue?

The Old Rogues are civilians and need the New Rogues and Grodd dead.

The Independent Rogues just need to survive.

The Arch-Villains have unknown win conditions (sound familiar?).

The Detectives need to imprison the New Rogues.



Aside from Grodd, who from these groups do I need dead?

I think that depends what group you are in yourself? I think it's age to say if you consider yourself a civ that we want new rogues and arch villains dead. I'm not sure about the detectives, but the independent rogues, depends who they want to side with.

[Long Con]

I think we should, at the very least, avoid lynching the Independent Rogues. If we somehow discover a plot that they are trying to help the baddies, then we can discuss what do do, but even them, lynching them doesn't get anyone closer to their win condition.

There seems to be very little BTSC in this game, so I doubt that there will be any cohesive effort for "The Independents" to side with the baddies. I just looked over the roles again, and it seems more like they are just six Survivor roles that don't really have any reason to care about one another at all.

And I'm glad that "S" won, because that enables us to search for ~~S~, or BTSC. There's not much of it anywhere in the secrets, but I did find two very interesting tidbits in the Independent Rogues area. Which led to some interesting information being revealed.

[fingersplints]

Alright, I finally read everything. I find several people acting odd, but it isn't really suspicious to me. I think Epi's points about Elo would be worth considering, but I do not believe that even a spouse would be able to tell someone's role from that little activity. I don't really find it that out of character for him, but I'd still say his insistence she is bad looks worse to me then her "inactivity". I haven't read but a few posts until this point, so I can't really fault her.

llama seems crazy even for him. My only thoughts about that is he would probably be less likely to be this out there if he had bts and someone else to consider.

bf seemed really aggressive early about the that Made thing, and I am not sure I really get that suspicion, but it isn't unlike him to aggressively go after someone for something little early. I'm feeling ok about his activity so far.

[Epignosis]

Epi - I do not believe that on Day 0 with one word and one letter you can say with any degree of certainty that Elo is not an Old Rogue -wife or no.
MM is right you are distracting from yourself with Elo and shame on you !

How am I distracting from myself when I have done nothing but bring attention my way?

Do you think Elohcin is even reading the thread?

You are distracting from yourself with your "lynch Elo she is not an old rogue" thereby making people look at Elo and your record at reading her.

She could be reading the thread and keeping up but not posting as its day 0 and tbh it was a lot of ot talk. Do you think she has been reading the thread? Do you know everything she does all day while you are at work? What does her reading/not reading the thread have to do with you calling her out after she only posted one word and one letter - also knowing in large games she tends to be quieter until the number of players dwindle a bit?

That's right. I'm distracting people by participating. I hope it works.

In. Let the games begin so my husband will shut up

Elohcin signed up mainly to get this game out of Sign-Ups Hell. Otherwise, she would have signed up sooner. She usually signs up for games early. If she had BTSC, however, or the prospect of getting BTSC (and on this point, I don't believe she read any of the roles but her own), she would be more eager to participate. She likes to chat, as anyone who has been bad with her before knows. Having a partner would have elicited more from her Day 0.

On the basis of this, do you believe Elohcin has BTSC? I do not.

If you agree with me on that point, then it eliminates three Old Rogue roles from the realm of possibility, leaving three she could be. If you are one of these three remaining roles, then it reduces the probability that she is an Old Rogue to 8%. For you, there is a 92% chance Elohcin is not an Old Rogue. For everyone else, there is an 88% chance that she is not an Old Rogue. If you want to include Detectives in this, it's 80% and 76% respectively.

If you've got something better for Day 1, by all means.

And speak of the devil herself.

[Elohcin]

I see I am getting a lot of attention! I am sorry I haven't had much time to look this game over. But, now that I have I am a bit confused. I see there isn't a lot of BTSC and yet the role list doesn't make the win conditions clear. Maybe I just totally missed it.

So to address Epi.....

I don't think I've ever seen Epi call Elo out this early in the game. It has my attention. She's said two words so far. Which word did you find more suspicious, Epi?

All the ones she didn't say.

She strikes me as disinterested. She is never disinterested if she has BTSC. That means she isn't Captain Cold or Heat Wave. The possibility of BTSC would also keep her interested, so she isn't Golden Glider or Blacksmith. That means if she is an old rogue, she has to be Mirror Master, Weather Wizard, or The Trickster.

And if any of you are those roles, then it reduces her chances of being an old rogue even further for you.

You think I must be an old rogue - Mirror Master, Weather Wizard, or The Trickster. I understand why you don't think I have BTSC, but why do you think I am an old rogue specifically? And even if you were right, why do you want to lynch those roles? Just curious.

[Elohcin]

I mean, it says old rogues are as close to civilian as a role can be in this game.

[Long Con]

He's saying that you aren't likely to be those roles, especially to a person who IS one of those roles. Which mayor may not be a subtle rolehint attempt, or at least a desire to get the idea in people's minds while not directly, or even indirectly, saying it.

[DharmaHelper]

llama seems crazy even for him. My only thoughts about that is he would probably be less likely to be this out there if he had bts and someone else to consider.

What's your point here? As far as I'm aware BTSC is not in full swing across the board quite yet.

[Marmot]

Epi - I do not believe that on Day 0 with one word and one letter you can say with any degree of certainty that Elo is not an Old Rogue -wife or no.
MM is right you are distracting from yourself with Elo and shame on you !

How am I distracting from myself when I have done nothing but bring attention my way?

Do you think Elohcin is even reading the thread?

You are distracting from yourself with your "lynch Elo she is not an old rogue" thereby making people look at Elo and your record at reading her.

She could be reading the thread and keeping up but not posting as its day 0 and tbh it was a lot of ot talk. Do you think she has been reading the thread? Do you know everything she does all day while you are at work? What does her reading/not reading the thread have to do with you calling her out after she only posted one word and one letter - also knowing in large games she tends to be quieter until the number of players dwindle a bit?

That's right. I'm distracting people by participating. I hope it works.

In. Let the games begin so my husband will shut up

Elohcin signed up mainly to get this game out of Sign-Ups Hell. Otherwise, she would have signed up sooner. She usually signs up for games early. If she had BTSC, however, or the prospect of getting BTSC (and on this point, I don't believe she read any of the roles but her own), she would be more eager to participate. She likes to chat, as anyone who has been bad with her before knows. Having a partner would have elicited more from her Day 0.

On the basis of this, do you believe Elohcin has BTSC? I do not.

If you agree with me on that point, then it eliminates three Old Rogue roles from the realm of possibility, leaving three she could be. If you are one of these three remaining roles, then it reduces the probability that she is an Old Rogue to 8%. For you, there is a 92% chance Elohcin is not an Old Rogue. For everyone else, there is an 88% chance that she is not an Old Rogue. If you want to include Detectives in this, it's 80% and 76% respectively.

If you've got something better for Day 1, by all means.

And speak of the devil herself.

So Elohcin was lacking the interest even before she even got her role? I believe that discounts your theory that Elohcin lacked interest based on her role and whether or not she has BTSC.

[fingersplints]

llama seems crazy even for him. My only thoughts about that is he would probably be less likely to be this out there if he had bts and someone else to consider.

What's your point here? As far as I'm aware BTSC is not in full swing across the board quite yet.

I thought my point was pretty clear. He seems to be drawing a lot of attention to himself. I think he would be less likely to do so if he had btsc or potential btsc partners to worry about. Because it isn't in full swing yet doesn't mean that all those with the potential to gain btsc won't worry about their partners.

[Epignosis]

So Elohcin was lacking the interest even before she even got her role? I believe that discounts your theory that Elohcin lacked interest based on her role and whether or not she has BTSC.

What? No it doesn't. Were she interested in the theme, I would not be able to detect anything in particular by this point. That she still seemed disinterested during Day 0 leads me to believe nothing made things interesting for her (and BTSC does that).

[S~V~S]

Wow, busy day.

Re llama, this is exactly what he did in X Men; that does not make him a civ (or an Old Rogue or what have you). It kinda makes him a hypocrite~ he is always screaming to kill low posters becasue they are not helping the home team with their lack or participation. But then, carrying on endlessly about Morlocks or Monkeys or whatever does not help anyone, either. I see DHs point; I want to see if, now that the pregame is over, Llama steps up to the plate.

I am with MM on Epis analysis; that there are a lot of other roles that are not Old Rogues that, at this stage, are not a threat. That may change. But not voting for someone cause her husband says she does not have BTSC (looking at the roles, not many do) is just way too vague and meta even for me.

I don't think Epi has BTSC either becasue if he did, he would have gotten someone else to throw this last distraction bone into the thread, rather than doing it himself. But, same as for Elo, at this point I don't see lack of BTS as as all that much of a threat.

So since we have new players in this game who play with the taking votes on and off to apply and ease pressure mechanic, I am going to Vote Epignosis. I think he has something to hide, and I think he's shoving his wife in front of us as a scapegoat.

Yay changeable votes, my favorite thing

[Epignosis]

I don't think Epi has BTSC either becasue if he did, he would have gotten someone else to throw this last distraction bone into the thread, rather than doing it himself. But, same as for Elo, at this point I don't see lack of BTS as as all that much of a threat.

No...some of us are more discreet about their BTSC.

[Marmot]

Re llama, this is exactly what he did in X Men; that does not make him a civ (or an Old Rogue or what have you). It kinda makes him a hypocrite~ he is always screaming to kill low posters becasue they are not helping the home team with their lack or participation. But then, carrying on endlessly about Morlocks or Monkeys or whatever does not help anyone, either. I see DHs point; I want to see if, now that the pregame is over, Llama steps up to the plate.

I agree with your reasoning here and your metaphor.

[quote="S~V~S]I am with MM on Epis analysis; that there are a lot of other roles that are not Old Rogues that, at this stage, are not a threat. That may change. But not voting for someone cause her husband says she does not have BTSC (looking at the roles, not many do) is just way too vague and meta even for me.

I don't think Epi has BTSC either becasue if he did, he would have gotten someone else to throw this last distraction bone into the thread, rather than doing it himself. But, same as for Elo, at this point I don't see lack of BTS as as all that much of a threat.

So since we have new players in this game who play with the taking votes on and off to apply and ease pressure mechanic, I am going to Vote Epignosis. I think he has something to hide, and I think he's shoving his wife in front of us as a scapegoat.

Yay changeable votes, my favorite thing [/quote]

Does Epignosis really do that? I've never been a baddie with him, so I have no firsthand experience.

If I want something done, I tend to do it myself rather than asking a BTSC partner to do. Obviously, it's not perfect, because that cost the civvies a win in Harry Potter.

[Turnip Head]

I don't agree that Elo being disinterested in the game so far means that she's not an Old Rogue and/or is bad, Epi. In fact, I know that circa Harry Potteer mafia, Elo being uninvolved was a civvie tell of hers in your eyes.

[S~V~S]

I don't think Epi has BTSC either becasue if he did, he would have gotten someone else to throw this last distraction bone into the thread, rather than doing it himself. But, same as for Elo, at this point I don't see lack of BTS as as all that much of a threat.

No...some of us are more discreet about their BTSC.

That was a different game; we had a five person neutral team. We could openly defend without prejudice. You can air this laundry in that thread, or in a PM

@MM, I really don't know if he does. My point was that if you have teammates and you need a distraction, usually THEY are the ones to set it up. Less obvious that way. I wasn't speaking to Epis style specifically.

I was being kinda facetious more than anything; my reasoning was just as valid, perhaps from the standpoint of anyone who has ever had BTSC, more valid. It could be applied to anyone, as could Epis reasoning re Elo.

[Epignosis]

I don't agree that Elo being disinterested in the game so far means that she's not an Old Rogue and/or is bad, Epi. In fact, I know that circa Harry Potteer mafia, Elo being uninvolved was a civvie tell of hers in your eyes.

That was over a year ago. You don't think Eloh has become a more nuanced player since then?

And this setup is different: As far as I know, only two Old Rogues start with BTSC and can gain it. Only one New Rogue can gain it but doesn't start with it.

[DharmaHelper]

llama seems crazy even for him. My only thoughts about that is he would probably be less likely to be this out there if he had bts and someone else to consider.

What's your point here? As far as I'm aware BTSC is not in full swing across the board quite yet.

I thought my point was pretty clear. He seems to be drawing a lot of attention to himself. I think he would be less likely to do so if he had btsc or potential btsc partners to worry about. Because it isn't in full swing yet doesn't mean that all those with the potential to gain btsc won't worry about their partners.

I suppose I disagree.

[fingersplints]

Re llama, this is exactly what he did in X Men; that does not make him a civ (or an Old Rogue or what have you). It kinda makes him a hypocrite~ he is always screaming to kill low posters becasue they are not helping the home team with their lack or participation. But then, carrying on endlessly about Morlocks or Monkeys or whatever does not help anyone, either. I see DHs point; I want to see if, now that the pregame is over, Llama steps up to the plate.

I did not play X-Men so I will take this into consideration. Perhaps it is more how I would expect how he would act more then how he would since he is a bit unpredictable.
I do agree that he is being unhelpful for the sake of being unhelpful and is being a low poster since most of his aren't relevant.

[S~V~S]

Re llama, this is exactly what he did in X Men; that does not make him a civ (or an Old Rogue or what have you). It kinda makes him a hypocrite~ he is always screaming to kill low posters becasue they are not helping the home team with their lack or participation. But then, carrying on endlessly about Morlocks or Monkeys or whatever does not help anyone, either. I see DHs point; I want to see if, now that the pregame is over, Llama steps up to the plate.

I did not play X-Men so I will take this into consideration. Perhaps it is more how I would expect how he would act more then how he would since he is a bit unpredictable.
I do agree that he is being unhelpful for the sake of being unhelpful and is being a low poster since most of his aren't relevant.

He was a civ in that game, Splints.

[S~V~S]

I don't agree that Elo being disinterested in the game so far means that she's not an Old Rogue and/or is bad, Epi. In fact, I know that circa Harry Potteer mafia, Elo being uninvolved was a civvie tell of hers in your eyes.

That was over a year ago. You don't think Eloh has become a more nuanced player since then?

And this setup is different: As far as I know, only two Old Rogues start with BTSC and can gain it. Only one New Rogue can gain it but doesn't start with it.

I think that she has. You are the one making her sound like she has not; no BTS and she loses interest. I have seen her play a sound civ game with no BTS. Perhaps two games stretches her thin. I know I have issues juggling that at times, and I have been playing for a long time.