The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[Long Con]

I think I solved Girder's secret, but it was more logical than linguistic.

Girder – A man transformed into pure metal. ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~.

Girder cannot be night killed.

Looks good to me. And BF, that is possible, feel free to look for different solutions. I think it's more likely that Magenta either wasn't paying much attention (as I recall there was some latecomers not-caught-up) or just plain didn't agree with wasting a lynch save. I think BTSC is a way more powerful ability than a lynch save.

[Epignosis]

Professor Zoom (???????) – He wants to kill the Flash family more than anything else in the world. He’ll search every even night for a Flash. ~~ ~~ ~~~~s ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~, ~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~.

If he finds anyone Flash at night, that Flash will die.

The syntax looks awkward to me, but I think that's the gist.

[Black Rock]

RIP Llama

Wow, that sucks. Bye Llama

Looks like I have to work harder towards my life goal of not annoying Rabbit

I just found out I do annoy him.

[blindfaeth]

Professor Zoom (???????) – He wants to kill the Flash family more than anything else in the world. He’ll search every even night for a Flash. ~~ ~~ ~~~~s ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~, ~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~.

If he finds anyone Flash at night, that Flash will die.

The syntax looks awkward to me, but I think that's the gist.

This can't be correct. Flash has an s in it.

[blindfaeth]

Maybe either instead of anyone?

[Epignosis]

Professor Zoom (???????) – He wants to kill the Flash family more than anything else in the world. He’ll search every even night for a Flash. ~~ ~~ ~~~~s ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~, ~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~.

If he finds anyone Flash at night, that Flash will die.

The syntax looks awkward to me, but I think that's the gist.

This can't be correct. Flash has an s in it.

If he finds either Wally or Barry, that homie will die.

Addendum- yep.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Sorry DH I was busy today but I willl be around tonight if you would like me to explain my vote some more.

[Epignosis]

Zoom (????????) – He thinks he can make all the other heroes and villains “better”. Each odd night he will Protect one player. That player will be randomly rewarded or penalized as well. ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~s ~~~~~, ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~’s ~~~~~~~~s ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~. ?????????

If Zoom protects Grodd, ~~~ ~~ Grodd’s ~~~~~~~~s will ~~~~~~~~ ~~~. ?????????

[DharmaHelper]

Sorry DH I was busy today but I willl be around tonight if you would like me to explain my vote some more.

Why would I?

[Epignosis]

Captain Boomerang – Most heroes and villains alike consider him to be a bit unpredictable. He can throw a boomerang every night. The boomerang has a fifty percent chance to ~~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~’s ~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~. If it doesn’t, then ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~’s ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~s~~~~.

The boomerang has a fifty percent chance to return the target’s vote right back. If it doesn’t, then Captain Boomerang's ~~~~~ ~~~~ will be ~~~~~~~~~ ~~s~~~~.

[Mister Rearranger]

Day 1:

AceofSpaces
1
timmer (21) 4%

Bass_the_Clever
0
No votes

BirdwithTeeth
0
No votes

Black Rock
0
No votes

blindfaeth
1
Spacedaisy (11) 4%

Bullzeye
1
thellama73 (8) 4%

DFaraday
0
No votes

DharmaHelper
1
reywaS (17) 4%

Elohcin
1
Epignosis (4) 4%

Epignosis
7
Metalmarsh89 (1), blindfaeth (5), S~V~S (6), birdwithteeth11 (12), fingersplints (16), Roxy (18), Bass_the_Clever (20) 27%

fingersplints
0
No votes

FZ.
0
No votes

ika
0
No votes

Long Con
1
rabbit8 (7) 4%

Made
1
Made (14) 4%

Metalmarsh89
0
No votes

rabbit8
0
No votes

reywaS
0
No votes

Roxy
0
No votes

Soneji
0
No votes

Sophie
0
No votes

Spacedaisy
0
No votes

S~V~S
1
AceofSpaces (13) 4%

thellama73
8
DharmaHelper (3), FZ. (15), DFaraday (19), Bullzeye (22), Turnip Head (23), Soneji (24), Black Rock (25), Long Con (26) 31%

Turnip Head
0
No votes

The Politicians (host, mod, nons)
3
Mister Rearranger (2), unfurl (9), MovingPictures07 (10)

[Mister Rearranger]

I missed an "s" in Professor Zoom's role, fwiw. That appears to be the only one I missed. :P

[Epignosis]

Professor Zoom (???????) – He wants to kill the Flash family more than anything else in the world. He’ll search every even night for a Flash. ~~ ~~ ~~~~s ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~, ~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~.

If he finds anyone Flash at night, that Flash will die.

The syntax looks awkward to me, but I think that's the gist.

This can't be correct. Flash has an s in it.

If he finds either Wally or Barry, that homie will die.

Addendum- yep.

If he finds either Wally or Barry, that Flash will die.

[Sophie]

Sorry DH I was busy today but I willl be around tonight if you would like me to explain my vote some more.

Sorry dh? You voted epi if im not mistaken
Is this from a previois interaction? I dont get it

[DFaraday]

We lynched the Flash Day 1? Sorry, Llama.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Sorry DH I was busy today but I willl be around tonight if you would like me to explain my vote some more.

Why would I?

Well i dont want you to think im not paying attention like in deathnote. lol

[Bass_the_Clever]

Sorry DH I was busy today but I willl be around tonight if you would like me to explain my vote some more.

Sorry dh? You voted epi if im not mistaken
Is this from a previois interaction? I dont get it

I should really start quoting the things I'm writing aboutt. I was addressing something he said after I voted epi.

[Marmot]

This kind of last minute shenanigans is why I hate changeable votes.

who changed votes the last minutes? i just got here

Epignosis didn't bother to keep track of those votes.

Bye llama I do not understand why you would want to draw so much attention to yourself with your monkey antics with such an important role. :/

You all should really try lynching Epignosis tomorrow.

[Epignosis]

This kind of last minute shenanigans is why I hate changeable votes.

who changed votes the last minutes? i just got here

Epignosis didn't bother to keep track of those votes.

Bye llama I do not understand why you would want to draw so much attention to yourself with your monkey antics with such an important role. :/

You all should really try lynching Epignosis tomorrow.

Nah.

[Marmot]

I saw Epignosis with the devil.

[Epignosis]

I saw Epignosis with the devil.

You went to my wedding?

[Marmot]

I saw Epignosis with the devil.

You went to my wedding?

Don't fret the details.

[Epignosis]

I always fret the details, like, why did I take the votes I did? Why did llama? People are more eager to defend low-posters than the ones who make shit interesting. I don't get it. It's the Syndicate Syndrome.

Now I can guess why two people may have voted for me, but some of those votes on me are horseshit attempts to get me out of the way. Right S~V~S? You were looking for any reason to vote for me, and I can sniff it out when you are.

And timmer? Welcome. Glad you could take the burden off my wife. There's a good pal. I'm sorry you probably did not get an Old Rogue role, and, since you didn't vote to save llama, you didn't get a detective role.

[DharmaHelper]

I always fret the details, like, why did I take the votes I did? Why did llama? People are more eager to defend low-posters than the ones who make shit interesting. I don't get it. It's the Syndicate Syndrome.

Now I can guess why two people may have voted for me, but some of those votes on me are horseshit attempts to get me out of the way. Right S~V~S? You were looking for any reason to vote for me, and I can sniff it out when you are.

And timmer? Welcome. Glad you could take the burden off my wife. There's a good pal. I'm sorry you probably did not get an Old Rogue role, and, since you didn't vote to save llama, you didn't get a detective role.

Shots fired

[timmer]

And timmer? Welcome. Glad you could take the burden off my wife. There's a good pal. I'm sorry you probably did not get an Old Rogue role, and, since you didn't vote to save llama, you didn't get a detective role.

Thanks! And all I can say is that sometimes even the smartest people can come to the most wrong conclusions. You'll want to find a new tangent, my man. I've now caught up through Day 0, working on more later tonight.

[Marmot]

I always fret the details, like, why did I take the votes I did? Why did llama? People are more eager to defend low-posters than the ones who make shit interesting. I don't get it. It's the Syndicate Syndrome.

Now I can guess why two people may have voted for me, but some of those votes on me are horseshit attempts to get me out of the way. Right S~V~S? You were looking for any reason to vote for me, and I can sniff it out when you are.

And timmer? Welcome. Glad you could take the burden off my wife. There's a good pal. I'm sorry you probably did not get an Old Rogue role, and, since you didn't vote to save llama, you didn't get a detective role.

And your vote?

[timmer]

Okay, so I've caught up. I'm also tired and achey so I'll just do one sort of sum up post for now.

I think all three of the main cases of Day 1 (Epig, llama, bullz) were crap, tbh. While YES, this was Day 1, and I know those are always a mess, these three cases were each built on meta-information that had a chance of error roughly the same as just picking a name out of a hat.

Both Epig and llama are notorious for a) shaking up their game b) being active posters and c) stirring the shit. But none of those things are an indication of alignment. So the case against llama, that mentioning the monkey so often must = bad, is about as bad as when Vompatti decided to try posting more "normal" as a civ and got lynched for it. And Epig's idea, he'll be sorry to find out, is clever but completely wrong. He's forgetting that probability is called probability because it indicates what is probable, not what actually IS. But is he bad for saying it? I can't say. On one hand, he didn't really try to pursue any other leads or ideas, but on the other, every time someone else brought it up, he was obliged to respond. A Catch-22.

The case on bullz involved so much talk of some previous game and the line "always play my baddie game" that there is no way I would ever follow it.

Something that I noticed. Roxy really honed in on the idea that Epig was suspicious, and so did SVS. They both posted regarding Epig at the start of the day, Roxy more boldly than SVS. But I mention them because they also BOTH pursued later in the day this idea that Epig had said he would rather lynch or NK an absent Eloh than have her replaced.

Now, please, if I've missed a key post point it out to me, but I don't see anywhere where Epig actually ever said that? Sure, he never wavered from his stance about her, but he never said he'd rather kill her than replace her? Where is that?

Both Roxy and SVS brought that up as fact, and it feels very twisty, like maybe they took something else he said and tried to attach different meaning to it to make him look worse. Please point out where I'm wrong, if I am.

And finally, I'm surprised tbh that more people didn't actually Elohcin MORE, as her responses to Epig actually made little sense. Either she completely misread his posts regarding her or completely misunderstood them, because her response was actually backwards from what he had said? Anyway, I'm heading to bed now, but those were the pings I caught.

[Bullzeye]

Okay, so I've caught up. I'm also tired and achey so I'll just do one sort of sum up post for now.

I think all three of the main cases of Day 1 (Epig, llama, bullz) were crap, tbh. While YES, this was Day 1, and I know those are always a mess, these three cases were each built on meta-information that had a chance of error roughly the same as just picking a name out of a hat.

Both Epig and llama are notorious for a) shaking up their game b) being active posters and c) stirring the shit. But none of those things are an indication of alignment. So the case against llama, that mentioning the monkey so often must = bad, is about as bad as when Vompatti decided to try posting more "normal" as a civ and got lynched for it.

I actually agree with this, and it's part of what I was talking about when I said people were taking jokes too seriously. My vote for Llama was because I felt BF was quite defensive over him and tried to shut down discussion in that regard. To be honest, I'm expecting the civ ninja detective to kill me tonight for it anyway so I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to post.

And Epig's idea, he'll be sorry to find out, is clever but completely wrong. He's forgetting that probability is called probability because it indicates what is probable, not what actually IS. But is he bad for saying it? I can't say. On one hand, he didn't really try to pursue any other leads or ideas, but on the other, every time someone else brought it up, he was obliged to respond. A Catch-22.

If I had voted for Epi, this would've been why. He basically said he could rule Elo out of a couple of roles and therefore we should vote for her? I wonder if he still thinks we should lynch you.

The case on bullz involved so much talk of some previous game and the line "always play my baddie game" that there is no way I would ever follow it.

To be fair, it also involved Llama's armchair psychoanalysis and BF defending his own unquestioned honour by calling me defensive.

Something that I noticed. Roxy really honed in on the idea that Epig was suspicious, and so did SVS. They both posted regarding Epig at the start of the day, Roxy more boldly than SVS. But I mention them because they also BOTH pursued later in the day this idea that Epig had said he would rather lynch or NK an absent Eloh than have her replaced.

Now, please, if I've missed a key post point it out to me, but I don't see anywhere where Epig actually ever said that? Sure, he never wavered from his stance about her, but he never said he'd rather kill her than replace her? Where is that?

I don't know that he ever outright said it, but it's certainly easy to see how someone could infer it from his attitude.

And finally, I'm surprised tbh that more people didn't actually Elohcin MORE, as her responses to Epig actually made little sense. Either she completely misread his posts regarding her or completely misunderstood them, because her response was actually backwards from what he had said? Anyway, I'm heading to bed now, but those were the pings I caught.

Yeah I wasn't sure what to make of that but I doubt a baddie would have sided with her accuser so thoroughly.

As I've already said, I expect that due to Llama's contrived suspicions of me and my vote for him, I'll probably be revenged killed by his fellow detectives tonight. I would encourage them not to do that, and to instead target someone who might actually be bad. But since I can't stop them anyway, I think I should a thought I had now so people can consider it.

While I was working earlier I had a thought that since the baddies don't all have btsc yet, there are probably at least a couple who will try to avoid harming their potential allies. You don't want to eliminate a teammate you never knew you had, after all. Therefore I think blendy players in this game will have a higher than usual chance of being baddies who are trying not to hurt their team. They might try to make their votes completely ineffective, or avoid going after the most suspicious players. I don't think I'm saying anything profound here, basically just that blendy players are always potential baddies flying under the radar, but in a game like this it might be more likely in some cases. Of course it's also possible baddies would try to draw attention to themselves so the one who gathers them together can find them easily. In fact, that particular baddie is probably the one we want dead first. What do people think? I'm not advocating we lynch people for being quiet or blendy alone, but I think it's something to bear in mind when considering individual suspects.

[S~V~S]

I always fret the details, like, why did I take the votes I did? Why did llama? People are more eager to defend low-posters than the ones who make shit interesting. I don't get it. It's the Syndicate Syndrome.

Now I can guess why two people may have voted for me, but some of those votes on me are horseshit attempts to get me out of the way. Right S~V~S? You were looking for any reason to vote for me, and I can sniff it out when you are.

And timmer? Welcome. Glad you could take the burden off my wife. There's a good pal. I'm sorry you probably did not get an Old Rogue role, and, since you didn't vote to save llama, you didn't get a detective role.

Absolutely not. I think you were trying to signal the first day with your sidekick remark. I did not say anything about it, though, becasue there could be civ reasons for that behavior as well. Until the bullshit with Eloh. That was something you threw into the thread to try to distract from discussion of yourself. I don't "try to get you out of the way" if I don't think you are bad. I thought you were a civ for a large part of HSK, and did nothing against you. I don't think you are civ in this game becasue that whole "well I planned to kill her, but I have no kill, so I would lynch her" is more full of holes than moldy cheese. You knew she only signed up to play for you~ and when Timmer tried to join, you, a frequent host, should have been thrilled since then you did not have to try to lynch one of the roles for NO REASON other than that your wife tried to help you out. I call shenanigans, and I am going to keep calling them.

I may get accused of tunnelvision for it, but you all have met me before, right? If I have a bone, I'm gonna chew it. Sometimes I'm wrong, like I was about BF in HSK. Sometimes we're all wrong. But I see nothing civvie in anything you did or said once you started trying to lynch Elo for non game related reasons.

Don't you go playing the personal card, or trying to dismiss what I am saying by calling it personal. This is not personal. I think you're bad.

[S~V~S]

EBWOP, i left out (before the last line, I was too excited, lol)~

It's funny, there are two points being made against me; that I am qualifying, and that I have tunnelvision. Can't be both

[Marmot]

I may get accused of tunnelvision for it, but you all have met me before, right? If I have a bone, I'm gonna chew it. Sometimes I'm wrong, like I was about BF in HSK. Sometimes we're all wrong. But I see nothing civvie in anything you did or said once you started trying to lynch Elo for non game related reasons.

Don't you go playing the personal card, or trying to dismiss what I am saying by calling it personal. This is not personal. I think you're bad.

Game after game, you accuse me of not knowing how you play at all, so

[S~V~S]

I don't know how I play, lol. So it always amazes me when others say they do. I'm a hot mess most days and have no clue at all. True story

[Marmot]

I don't know how I play, lol. So it always amazes me when others say they do. I'm a hot mess most days and have no clue at all. True story

Coolio, how do you feel about timmer and his responses today?

[S~V~S]

Timmer, he said this:

Since it has been touched on already, and even though I was trying to be tactful, I will just spell it out.

I got lynched in HSK the day before spring break started for us. I had no Mafia during spring break (I'm sorry- I don't consider LMS Mafia), and was bummed. Flash had been in sign-ups for weeks. Eloh signed up so her pouting husband could have something fun to do. I decided I would kill her Night 1 if I could, or, if that couldn't happen, I would try to get her lynched.

That's right. My wife loves me, and I'm trying to kill her.

With her having no knowledge or interest in the theme, I figured that she would commit herself if she had BTSC, and I would have left her alone (well, in that case, I still might have Night killed her, but I can't).

I say this because I'm not trying to play the Eloh expert, distract you from talking about me, be mean-spirited by going after my wife Day 1, or whatever else I've been accused of doing. She has a gazillion cakes to make, and she signed up so I could play.

That's my hidden agenda.

Thus, here I am trying to remove a player who probably is not vested in this, and who I do not think has BTSC (and is therefore unlikely to be one of the six Old Rogues), and I'm the one with the most votes.

The irony is not lost on me.

Addendum.

And in my book, saying you are trying to get someone lynched = killing them.

I want to lynch Elohcin.

So I think either he KNEW she was bad and was going for the cred, which is impossible, how could he KNOW, even if he had an info role, there has been no night?? Or he did not care if she was bad, and was just lynching her to get her out of the game. Which does not strike me as a civvie move.

I don't know how I play, lol. So it always amazes me when others say they do. I'm a hot mess most days and have no clue at all. True story

Coolio, how do you feel about timmer and his responses today?

I think he sounds like Timmer. Generally hard to read for me. Someone I respect, but also someone I tend to distrust since he can fool me. Too early to say yet. But like I said up there ^^, unless Epi KNEW it for a fact, which he could not, I think Timmer deserves a fair shake, and will be a lot harder for Epi to lynch. Since I assume he is going to keep trying, since he was so sure Elo was bad

[Marmot]

I actually don't think Epignosis will keep trying. His primary reasoning for lynching Elohcin was that she wasn't interested in the first place. Now that she's been replaced, what little other reasoning he had has surely been replaced by other candidates.

If I recall, you are one of them.

[S~V~S]

I agree, which is one of the reasons I can't see him being a civ. I don;t think a civ Epi would have throw an unknown role under the bus that way unless he KNEW she was bad. I just don't.

And yeah, I am one of them. Several people, llama voters iirc, have mentioned me in a negative way

I have stuff to do shortly, and ~ not sure how long I will be afk. Will be back by tonight.

[blindfaeth]

I have to say, I absolutely abhor the last five votes on llama.

Bullz voted llama in spite of me to try and prove something. Good job cowboy you win a prize

TH, who was Epis sidekick signaler voted next. Soneji was next and didn't even post they were voting in the thread unless I missed it somehow. Then br and LC back to back. I've seen myself mention LC before somewhere... Oh yeah :P and these were all like within the last hour, probably even closer than that. Why the sudden push to lynch llama? You might think the case on Epi was ridiculous, but the non case on llama was 50 times more so.

[Bullzeye]

I have to say, I absolutely abhor the last five votes on llama.

Bullz voted llama in spite of me to try and prove something. Good job cowboy you win a prize

TH, who was Epis sidekick signaler voted next. Soneji was next and didn't even post they were voting in the thread unless I missed it somehow. Then br and LC back to back. I've seen myself mention LC before somewhere... Oh yeah :P and these were all like within the last hour, probably even closer than that. Why the sudden push to lynch llama? You might think the case on Epi was ridiculous, but the non case on llama was 50 times more so.

Yeah I expect my prize will arrive with the night post. I don't ever make RIP posts because I think they're meaningless and fake and it goes without saying that I'm sorry that I was wrong. I didn't vote him to spite you or prove anything. Your influence on my vote was because of the way you defended him in combination with your reaction to my post about joking. If he'd been bad, I'd have voted for you next. I didn't see the point in voting for you this time because it would not have accomplished anything IMO.

[blindfaeth]

I have to say, I absolutely abhor the last five votes on llama.

Bullz voted llama in spite of me to try and prove something. Good job cowboy you win a prize

TH, who was Epis sidekick signaler voted next. Soneji was next and didn't even post they were voting in the thread unless I missed it somehow. Then br and LC back to back. I've seen myself mention LC before somewhere... Oh yeah :P and these were all like within the last hour, probably even closer than that. Why the sudden push to lynch llama? You might think the case on Epi was ridiculous, but the non case on llama was 50 times more so.

Yeah I expect my prize will arrive with the night post. I don't ever make RIP posts because I think they're meaningless and fake and it goes without saying that I'm sorry that I was wrong. I didn't vote him to spite you or prove anything. Your influence on my vote was because of the way you defended him in combination with your reaction to my post about joking. If he'd been bad, I'd have voted for you next. I didn't see the point in voting for you this time because it would not have accomplished anything IMO.

I look forward to you receiving your prize, I think that would be a great decision on the civ ninjas part

[Bullzeye]

I have to say, I absolutely abhor the last five votes on llama.

Bullz voted llama in spite of me to try and prove something. Good job cowboy you win a prize

TH, who was Epis sidekick signaler voted next. Soneji was next and didn't even post they were voting in the thread unless I missed it somehow. Then br and LC back to back. I've seen myself mention LC before somewhere... Oh yeah :P and these were all like within the last hour, probably even closer than that. Why the sudden push to lynch llama? You might think the case on Epi was ridiculous, but the non case on llama was 50 times more so.

Yeah I expect my prize will arrive with the night post. I don't ever make RIP posts because I think they're meaningless and fake and it goes without saying that I'm sorry that I was wrong. I didn't vote him to spite you or prove anything. Your influence on my vote was because of the way you defended him in combination with your reaction to my post about joking. If he'd been bad, I'd have voted for you next. I didn't see the point in voting for you this time because it would not have accomplished anything IMO.

I look forward to you receiving your prize, I think that would be a great decision on the civ ninjas part

I think it'd be a dick move personally. Llama was wrong about me and killing me out of spite won't bring him back, nor will it do anything but help the baddies.

[Bullzeye]

If the detectives insist on vengeance, at least let me be lynched so I can defend myself and eventually have everyone proven wrong so I don't have to deal with smug posturing every time I read the thread post-death.

[Long Con]

Okay, so I've caught up. I'm also tired and achey so I'll just do one sort of sum up post for now.

I think all three of the main cases of Day 1 (Epig, llama, bullz) were crap, tbh. While YES, this was Day 1, and I know those are always a mess, these three cases were each built on meta-information that had a chance of error roughly the same as just picking a name out of a hat.

Both Epig and llama are notorious for a) shaking up their game b) being active posters and c) stirring the shit. But none of those things are an indication of alignment. So the case against llama, that mentioning the monkey so often must = bad, is about as bad as when Vompatti decided to try posting more "normal" as a civ and got lynched for it. And Epig's idea, he'll be sorry to find out, is clever but completely wrong. He's forgetting that probability is called probability because it indicates what is probable, not what actually IS. But is he bad for saying it? I can't say. On one hand, he didn't really try to pursue any other leads or ideas, but on the other, every time someone else brought it up, he was obliged to respond. A Catch-22.

The case on bullz involved so much talk of some previous game and the line "always play my baddie game" that there is no way I would ever follow it.

Something that I noticed. Roxy really honed in on the idea that Epig was suspicious, and so did SVS. They both posted regarding Epig at the start of the day, Roxy more boldly than SVS. But I mention them because they also BOTH pursued later in the day this idea that Epig had said he would rather lynch or NK an absent Eloh than have her replaced.

Now, please, if I've missed a key post point it out to me, but I don't see anywhere where Epig actually ever said that? Sure, he never wavered from his stance about her, but he never said he'd rather kill her than replace her? Where is that?

Both Roxy and SVS brought that up as fact, and it feels very twisty, like maybe they took something else he said and tried to attach different meaning to it to make him look worse. Please point out where I'm wrong, if I am.

And finally, I'm surprised tbh that more people didn't actually Elohcin MORE, as her responses to Epig actually made little sense. Either she completely misread his posts regarding her or completely misunderstood them, because her response was actually backwards from what he had said? Anyway, I'm heading to bed now, but those were the pings I caught.

I thought that Eloh misread, and as a result, misunderstood, Epig's case against her. I didn't find that particularly suspicious, I found it to be a slight confirmation that she was, indeed, not having her mind completely on the game. I would have probably been a bit suspicious of someone if they had come after her for how she responded, I really can't see how such a case would be phrased. "Eloh's response is trying to muddy the waters by confusing people about Epig's meaning - she's probably a baddie who's trying a desperate ploy to seem Civvie!"

And it's really easy to call the Day One cases "crap" after the result we had, but it's Day One, there's not a lot to go on, and everybody has to choose what they find the most suspicious... if it's all crap, then you have to pick the least crappy crap and roll the dice on it. Who do you think you would have voted for?

[Long Con]

If the detectives insist on vengeance, at least let me be lynched so I can defend myself and eventually have everyone proven wrong so I don't have to deal with smug posturing every time I read the thread post-death.

*...votes Bullzeye?*

[Bullzeye]

If the detectives insist on vengeance, at least let me be lynched so I can defend myself and eventually have everyone proven wrong so I don't have to deal with smug posturing every time I read the thread post-death.

*...votes Bullzeye?*

Well I'd rather not die at all, but knowing how Llama was so sure of his contrived pseudopsychology case on me and the fact I voted for him, plus the fact I have a brain, I feel quite confident in my belief that I'm now a target of my own side. As soon as his role was revealed I told myself I was going down for it. I'm just trying to convince them not to kill me, if they do actually want me dead I'd rather they find reasons to try to lynch me so I can prove them wrong one way or another.

[Epignosis]

Both Epig and llama are notorious for a) shaking up their game b) being active posters and c) stirring the shit. But none of those things are an indication of alignment. So the case against llama, that mentioning the monkey so often must = bad, is about as bad as when Vompatti decided to try posting more "normal" as a civ and got lynched for it. And Epig's idea, he'll be sorry to find out, is clever but completely wrong. He's forgetting that probability is called probability because it indicates what is probable, not what actually IS. But is he bad for saying it? I can't say. On one hand, he didn't really try to pursue any other leads or ideas, but on the other, every time someone else brought it up, he was obliged to respond. A Catch-22.

I'm not "forgetting" anything. I know what probability is, timmer. People seem to expect me to have an airtight case where everything is certain. That isn't how Mafia works. If things were certain, Mafia would cease to be an enjoyable experience. Part of that enjoyment involves the use of probability in working things out. People can laugh at me post-Death Note all they like, but I'm not going to change because of any derision. I looked to see if Eloh had BTSC, and her response to me (her second post) indicated that she had no handle on what side was what, meaning she hadn't had anyone to talk to about this. She said she likes having BTSC, and so her disinterest is an indication that she is not a role that can obtain it (Golden Glider, Magenta, Blacksmith, and presumably Rainbow Raider given that capital S in the third spot). You didn't vote to save llama, so that rules out you being a detective. That means there is a 56% chance you are a New Rogue or an Arch Villain. That's a significantly higher percentage than I can work out for anybody else.

That's not "meta gaming," and it isn't pulling a name out of a hat. It's numbers.

I always fret the details, like, why did I take the votes I did? Why did llama? People are more eager to defend low-posters than the ones who make shit interesting. I don't get it. It's the Syndicate Syndrome.

Now I can guess why two people may have voted for me, but some of those votes on me are horseshit attempts to get me out of the way. Right S~V~S? You were looking for any reason to vote for me, and I can sniff it out when you are.

And timmer? Welcome. Glad you could take the burden off my wife. There's a good pal. I'm sorry you probably did not get an Old Rogue role, and, since you didn't vote to save llama, you didn't get a detective role.

And your vote?

My vote wasn't a horseshit attempt to get me out of the way. Thanks for asking.

I always fret the details, like, why did I take the votes I did? Why did llama? People are more eager to defend low-posters than the ones who make shit interesting. I don't get it. It's the Syndicate Syndrome.

Now I can guess why two people may have voted for me, but some of those votes on me are horseshit attempts to get me out of the way. Right S~V~S? You were looking for any reason to vote for me, and I can sniff it out when you are.

And timmer? Welcome. Glad you could take the burden off my wife. There's a good pal. I'm sorry you probably did not get an Old Rogue role, and, since you didn't vote to save llama, you didn't get a detective role.

Absolutely not. I think you were trying to signal the first day with your sidekick remark. I did not say anything about it, though, becasue there could be civ reasons for that behavior as well.

Does reading into people's Day 0 jokes have a high success rate of finding Mafia around here? I don't think it does. thellama73 made jokes about monkeys and The Flash. Many people believed he was the monkey and lynched him. He was The Flash. I think that's both telling and instructive.

AceofSpaces accused you of something (something I agree with, by the way), and your initial response to him was this:

No it means I have played extensively with Epignosis. He has done similar things to test people in the past.

That post implies a measure of expertise on your part about me. But then you claim that I was trying to signal Mafia teammates by asking people to apply to become my sidekick? Do come on. I would have said that if I were good, bad, independent, neutral, or God. If you have played so extensively with me (and thus have that experience), why don't you recognize that? I was hoping people would fill out applications in the thread and list their qualifications and why they would make a good sidekick to me. Nobody did it, I'm sorry to say, so Turnip Head got the job just for being the only one to apply. How do you not yet know that most of what I do in any game is to amuse myself?

Until the bullshit with Eloh. That was something you threw into the thread to try to distract from discussion of yourself.

I start accepting applications for my sidekick, and it's distracting behavior. I say I want to lynch Eloh and give my reasoning, and it's a distraction from me accepting applications for my sidekick. I then reveal my initial purpose for trying to lynch her (who corroborated what I said), and it's a distraction of discussion from me. So far, everything I have done is a distraction in some form or another.

Saying someone is trying to distract is implicitly insulting to everybody else. It implies that people can be easily hoodwinked into not reading the thread and drawing their own conclusions. Do you (and others who have dismissed my posts as distractions) really think that the players here are so incapable of independent thought that me trying to get Elohcin lynched and being honest about why is enough to successfully get people to stop talking about me? If that was my masterstroke, how did it work out for me? Do you not think that, with everything else that was going on, all I needed to do to avoid scrutiny was...not really post much of anything?

No...I find that people who label someone else a "distraction" do so with evil intentions, not good ones. Why? Because the accusation of being a "distraction" is not something anyone can mount a defense against. I could, if I were so inclined, pull two posts from just about anyone and claim that the latter post was meant to distract from something in the first. Furthermore, saying someone's post is a distraction is a way of dismissing the content of the post itself without having to actually engage it.

I don't "try to get you out of the way" if I don't think you are bad. I thought you were a civ for a large part of HSK, and did nothing against you. I don't think you are civ in this game becasue that whole "well I planned to kill her, but I have no kill, so I would lynch her" is more full of holes than moldy cheese. You knew she only signed up to play for you~ and when Timmer tried to join, you, a frequent host, should have been thrilled since then you did not have to try to lynch one of the roles for NO REASON other than that your wife tried to help you out. I call shenanigans, and I am going to keep calling them.

No holes.

Would you believe that my reaction to timmer saying he wanted to join was, "Why the hell is a game in sign ups for weeks and we struggle to fill it up, and then when it does fill, someone says, 'Oh, I'm too late?' Where were you?" The same thing happened in the Game of Champions and in another game recently. It's frustrating. It never once occurred to me that timmer could have just replaced Eloh at the outset and that would have been that. My thinking was more selfish than rational.

And even if I had thought of timmer replacing her, I don't ask hosts to replace other people unless I am on a team with a non-participant. That would be rude and presumptuous. Perhaps Eloh's interest would be piqued once the game began.

I may get accused of tunnelvision for it, but you all have met me before, right? If I have a bone, I'm gonna chew it. Sometimes I'm wrong, like I was about BF in HSK. Sometimes we're all wrong. But I see nothing civvie in anything you did or said once you started trying to lynch Elo for non game related reasons.

I don't do "civvie." I do what I want. You have met me before, right?

And just to be clear: I would not have gone for Elohcin if I could not find anything to go on. I think I did. See my response to timmer.

Don't you go playing the personal card, or trying to dismiss what I am saying by calling it personal. This is not personal. I think you're bad.

Where did I say anything about this being personal? I said I think you're looking for any reason to vote for me. That's because I think you actually believe that I'm good and need me out of the way to win.

I don't believe a good S~V~S would:

1) Call someone's post a distraction
2) Use her extensive playing experience with me to bolster her credibility about me, yet simultaneously hold that I was trying to signal to evil teammates on Day 0
3) Try to stay a step ahead of the conversation (as Aces marked)

Hence, I think you are looking for any reason to vote for me because you need me out of the game to win.

I won't be home all afternoon. Two parties. Great grandma turns 100. Friend finds out the gender of her child.

[Long Con]

Being Nightkilled does suck... I lost my life on Night 1 in Last Man Standing, and all my beautiful plans spiralled down the drain.

[Long Con]

Being Nightkilled does suck... I lost my life on Night 1 in Last Man Standing, and all my beautiful plans spiralled down the drain.

That was to Bullz, I didn't receive a Linkitis notification on Epig's big one.

[Black Rock]

Being Nightkilled does suck... I lost my life on Night 1 in Last Man Standing, and all my beautiful plans spiraled down the drain.

You don't have to tell me how being NK'd night 1 sucks. I've had my fair share.

[timmer]

Long Con, if I had been caught up, I think I'd have voted Roxy or SVS.

When the main Day 1 cases are based on jokey stuff or people playing out gambit-type stuff, which is how I would class both llama and Epig, I look to see who was pushing those cases from "that guy is acting weird" to "he is suspicious".

While plenty of people were about Epig, right after Day 1 started, I noticed that Roxy's tone in particular was more built to make him look bad. Roxy, MM and SVS all used the term distracting around the same time, in a negative way. And then later, both Roxy and SVS leaned on the idea that Epig wanted Eloh to die. Like, they were putting his words in an undeniably negative, suspicious light.

Does it make them all bad? No. But for a Day 1, I found that push to bump Epig from weird to suspicious... suspicious. I'd have voted one of them.

[Marmot]

Being Nightkilled does suck... I lost my life on Night 1 in Last Man Standing, and all my beautiful plans spiraled down the drain.

You don't have to tell me how being NK'd night 1 sucks. I've had my fair share.

Likewise.