The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[blindfaeth]

Do you still think Epi is bad, SVS? Is anyone else jockeying for your vote right now?

Thanks for reminding me, how is your newfound BTSC with him going?

[timmer]

Um, I tried to keep the lynch focused on him becasue I believe he is bad. Isn't that what the point of this game is?

Absolutely, it was just the way you framed his posts that pinged me. Both you and Roxy did it very near each other, both highlighting the "he wants her dead no matter what" angle. For a Day 1, it pinged me. I'm not sure where I'm going to vote yet today; the Bullz/BF thing has shown up as a new option, and Roxy's apparently silenced. And it's not like you are wilting under my gaze, exactly, lol. I'm not one to stay blinkered on a case when it is a Day 1 case.

[timmer]

Do you still think Epi is bad, SVS? Is anyone else jockeying for your vote right now?

I'd like to hear tho, as well. What do you think of the current state of things, SVS?

[S~V~S]

Do you still think Epi is bad, SVS? Is anyone else jockeying for your vote right now?

I really do. I don't think Epi, as someone who has extensively hosted, would attempt to lynch Elo under the circumstances, when someone else had tried to sign up for the game hours before it started, if he was a civvie. He said that was his plan before the game even started (he said he would NK her if he had a kill, so that means he decided on this course before he got his role, right?) so he was planning to get her lynched civ or not. I can't accept this as something a civ would do.

Since the suspicion of me seems to be coming from multiple directions right now, that clouds judgment a bit. Is it real, or is it a No U? I am not getting the warm fuzzies from LC. The way he reacted to discussion of Llama, automatically jumping to the conclusion that he had to be faking his civ game alarmed me a bit. I would like to hear Rabbits rationale for his thoughts on LC, as well. I would like to hear more from Soneji, his last minute switch with no discussion of reasoning got my eye.

What about you?

Linki~ and that is still the basis of why I think he is bad. I don't think he would have wanted her dead if she was a civ if HE was a civ, you see my point?

[Turnip Head]

What about you?

I was intending to look into Roxy more today, but I'm putting that on the backburner since she's silenced. The other two on my watch list were Ika and Soneji. I feel ika has gone out of his way to appear involved in the game without ever volunteering any of his player reads, which makes me suspicious. With Soneji I didn't like that he voted for Llama without posting about his vote, even though he was here posting at the time.

I was just curious why you hadn't voted Epi yet since you voted for him early on Day 1, citing the fact that votes are changeable.

[timmer]

Well, I did do a breakdown of Epig's possible groupings, and found that his actions wouldn't make much sense if he were an Old Rogue, so I agree with you to that point. This also muddles things for me. I didn't like your tactics against him, but at the same time, my breakdown suggests he is more likely to be bad or indy, so my points against you should not be construed as a direct defence of him, if that makes sense.

[S~V~S]

TH, I want to take a more circumspect approach today. Plus there is more than one baddie. I was thinking to play more in the vote/unvote style of our newer members, but I never got around to unvoting, lol. I think i am too "focus-y" with suspicions to do well with that style.

@Timmer~ you have played with me before, right ? That is generally how I do it. I see it, I believe it, I don't turn back. I have tried to change that about my game, but it is just my personality, not really a tactic, imo. It's what I do. Full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes. It has gotten me in trouble irl as well as in Mafia games.

[Long Con]

You never answered this question, S~V~S.

I was thinking Epi may have been throwing her under the bus for that cred.

Can you explain this thought? I usually see "throwing someone under the bus" as something a baddie does to their teammate for the cred you speak of. I don't really see how it applies to the Epig-Eloh situation.

[timmer]

LOL, yes I know how you are, for sure. Which is why I highlighted that we are still talking Day 1 stuff here. Anyone who thinks that their ideas are 100% right this early is just horribly misguided about mafia, imo. I know you know your thoughts aren't 100% sure to be right, and I do as well. I prefer this early to point out what I think is fishy but always with no blinders on.

in fact, that's what drew people to Epig, i suppose, his adamance? (is that a word?) Like, he had an idea of a probability of baddieness, and pursued it as if it were 100% instead of whatever number he had come up with. He worked with deliberate blinders, and that isn't very helpful.

[S~V~S]

I am=nswered that here LC. At the bottom, I did not quote it.

I was thinking Epi may have been throwing her under the bus for that cred.

Can you explain this thought? I usually see "throwing someone under the bus" as something a baddie does to their teammate for the cred you speak of. I don't really see how it applies to the Epig-Eloh situation.

Can you stop skirting around SVS' question and answer why you think suspecting Epi is suspicious? Why do you seem to be so convinced he's not bad?

I never said that I think suspecting Epi is suspicious. I don't. All I did was ask why people are suspecting S~V~S and Roxy for being aggressive against Epig, and not mentioning Metalmarsh, when my read of his posts shows he was doing the same thing.

But he was not. You mainly seemed to be lumping us all together, when he was not saying the same things we were. He mainly only had the same suspicion.

Also, iirc, Splints was also on that same page, but was killed by the baddies. So

And Epi seemed pretty sure. I still don't think he's a civ based on how he handled the whole "let's lynch Elo" thing, but that does not make him wrong. I think it is possible, while it is also possible that she was NOT bad, I find that less likely. The fact that Timmer came out against people who suspected Epi for trying to lynch HIM kinda gave me that feel. But it is a speculation feel. No basis in thread.

[S~V~S]

*answered

[Long Con]

Ok, I see, I didn't realize that was the answer because that didn't satisfy me, so I'll clarify: To throw a teammate under the bus, you have to know they're your teammate. How could Epig know Eloh was a baddie to throw her under the bus - wouldn't that negate the whole Eloh-doesn't-have-BTSC thing?

[S~V~S]

Well, I think it is clear that I think Epi is fibbing. So

[Long Con]

Well, I think it is clear that I think Epi is fibbing. So

I'm sorry to keep going on this, but I'm still not clear - you think Epig and Eloh/Timmer do have BTSC? And that Epig was doing a charitable "throw her under the bus" with her blessing, with the dual goal of getting Epig cred, and getting Eloh free of a game she wasn't invested in?

[Epignosis]

in fact, that's what drew people to Epig, i suppose, his adamance? (is that a word?) Like, he had an idea of a probability of baddieness, and pursued it as if it were 100% instead of whatever number he had come up with. He worked with deliberate blinders, and that isn't very helpful.

It's a matter of phrasing. I don't qualify my opinions or thoughts with "I think" or "In my opinion" or "I personally believe." Those qualifiers are unnecessary when the context makes it clear that the speaker is expressing an opinion rather than fact. I try to avoid using them in real life, and I mark them out in my students' persuasive essays too. I get that it sometimes gives people the impression that I'm presenting my view or perspective as fact, but that's their fault and not mine- I refuse to change.

I voted based on probability predicated on an assumption I had a good reason to make. For Day 1, I think my reasoning was a hell of lot better than OMG HE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT THE MONKEY.

[S~V~S]

Well, I think it is clear that I think Epi is fibbing. So

I'm sorry to keep going on this, but I'm still not clear - you think Epig and Eloh/Timmer do have BTSC? And that Epig was doing a charitable "throw her under the bus" with her blessing, with the dual goal of getting Epig cred, and getting Eloh free of a game she wasn't invested in?

Actually, I do think this is very clear. Like I said, it's a speculation feel, not thread based. Sorry if I am not willing to commit to a speculation to the extent that you may like. It is possible. It is also possible that she was a civ. We need to judge Timmer based on Timmer right now. That was my feeling based solely off of Epis posts. A gut feel. As I said, a speculation feel. I am not married to it, I think it is possible.

And Epi seemed pretty sure. I still don't think he's a civ based on how he handled the whole "let's lynch Elo" thing, but that does not make him wrong. I think it is possible, while it is also possible that she was NOT bad, I find that less likely. The fact that Timmer came out against people who suspected Epi for trying to lynch HIM kinda gave me that feel. But it is a speculation feel. No basis in thread.

Linki~ very true. That Monkey thing was annoying, but it did not make him bad.

[FZ.]

I was thinking Epi may have been throwing her under the bus for that cred.

Can you explain this thought? I usually see "throwing someone under the bus" as something a baddie does to their teammate for the cred you speak of. I don't really see how it applies to the Epig-Eloh situation.

Can you stop skirting around SVS' question and answer why you think suspecting Epi is suspicious? Why do you seem to be so convinced he's not bad?

I never said that I think suspecting Epi is suspicious. I don't. All I did was ask why people are suspecting S~V~S and Roxy for being aggressive against Epig, and not mentioning Metalmarsh, when my read of his posts shows he was doing the same thing.

But he was not. You mainly seemed to be lumping us all together, when he was not saying the same things we were. He mainly only had the same suspicion.

Also, iirc, Splints was also on that same page, but was killed by the baddies. So

And Epi seemed pretty sure. I still don't think he's a civ based on how he handled the whole "let's lynch Elo" thing, but that does not make him wrong. I think it is possible, while it is also possible that she was NOT bad, I find that less likely. The fact that Timmer came out against people who suspected Epi for trying to lynch HIM kinda gave me that feel. But it is a speculation feel. No basis in thread.

I think that if Epi and Eloh were baddies together and knew it (which seems unlikely since there's barely BTSC between the baddies if at all), Epi would convince her they would rule the world. So in my opinion either he saw her bummed about her role and figured out it was a baddie role and maybe even confronted her about it or decided he'd get her lynched, or he told the truth but could either be a baddie who can't NK her so is trying to lynch her like they talked about, or is a civvie that is trying to keep his word, and also thinks getting her lynched won't be a big loss to the civvies.
I'm kind of leaning to the first.

[Long Con]

Well, I think it is clear that I think Epi is fibbing. So

I'm sorry to keep going on this, but I'm still not clear - you think Epig and Eloh/Timmer do have BTSC? And that Epig was doing a charitable "throw her under the bus" with her blessing, with the dual goal of getting Epig cred, and getting Eloh free of a game she wasn't invested in?

Actually, I do think this is very clear. Like I said, it's a speculation feel, not thread based. Sorry if I am not willing to commit to a speculation to the extent that you may like. It is possible. It is also possible that she was a civ. We need to judge Timmer based on Timmer right now. That was my feeling based solely off of Epis posts. A gut feel. As I said, a speculation feel. I am not married to it, I think it is possible.

Not asking you to commit to anything to any extent. I was truly not getting it, because the roles lead us to believe that no baddies start with BTSC.

I'm more interested now in your theory of baddie BTSC from the get-go. Do you think that the Arch-Villains have undocumented BTSC, as it's assumed the Detectives do?

[Long Con]

Well, I think it is clear that I think Epi is fibbing. So

I'm sorry to keep going on this, but I'm still not clear - you think Epig and Eloh/Timmer do have BTSC? And that Epig was doing a charitable "throw her under the bus" with her blessing, with the dual goal of getting Epig cred, and getting Eloh free of a game she wasn't invested in?

Actually, I do think this is very clear. Like I said, it's a speculation feel, not thread based. Sorry if I am not willing to commit to a speculation to the extent that you may like. It is possible. It is also possible that she was a civ. We need to judge Timmer based on Timmer right now. That was my feeling based solely off of Epis posts. A gut feel. As I said, a speculation feel. I am not married to it, I think it is possible.

Not asking you to commit to anything to any extent. I was truly not getting it, because the roles lead us to believe that no baddies start with BTSC.

I'm more interested now in your theory of baddie BTSC from the get-go. Do you think that the Arch-Villains have undocumented BTSC, as it's assumed the Detectives do?

Maybe it would have been more accurate to say "I'm more interested in your speculation..." since you made it very clear that's what it is.

[FZ.]

in fact, that's what drew people to Epig, i suppose, his adamance? (is that a word?) Like, he had an idea of a probability of baddieness, and pursued it as if it were 100% instead of whatever number he had come up with. He worked with deliberate blinders, and that isn't very helpful.

It's a matter of phrasing. I don't qualify my opinions or thoughts with "I think" or "In my opinion" or "I personally believe." Those qualifiers are unnecessary when the context makes it clear that the speaker is expressing an opinion rather than fact. I try to avoid using them in real life, and I mark them out in my students' persuasive essays too. I get that it sometimes gives people the impression that I'm presenting my view or perspective as fact, but that's their fault and not mine- I refuse to change.

I voted based on probability predicated on an assumption I had a good reason to make. For Day 1, I think my reasoning was a hell of lot better than OMG HE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT THE MONKEY.

IT WASN'T THE MONKEY...or not just. If it were only that, I would have never voted for him

[S~V~S]

FZ, and that is also possible. I am just trying to wrap my head around the whole "Well, I decided to kill her regardless" aspect of this, and WHY he would do that rather than saying, "Hey Elo, I know you don't really want to play, why not let Timmer have your spot?". I guess I just don't understand it at all.

@LC, all I have been doing is speculating. I am trying to figure this whole thing out. It doesn't smell right to me, and I am going to try to figure it out, which means playing with different ideas.

[FZ.]

FZ, and that is also possible. I am just trying to wrap my head around the whole "Well, I decided to kill her regardless" aspect of this, and WHY he would do that rather than saying, "Hey Elo, I know you don't really want to play, why not let Timmer have your spot?". I guess I just don't understand it at all.

@LC, all I have been doing is speculating. I am trying to figure this whole thing out. It doesn't smell right to me, and I am going to try to figure it out, which means playing with different ideas.

I think his probability method was pretty poorly executed, and judging by End Note mafia, Epi knows how to do probabilities, even if he ends up being wrong . As a baddie, I can think of numerous better ways he could have found to make Eloh look bad. Hell, he's not stupid (He's not the genius he likes to think of himself either, but not stupid ). He had to know analysing 2 words would make people look at him. I think a baddie Epig would have been more careful. That's my stance, and that's why I'm leaning on not bad when it comes to him.

[FZ.]

Oh, and RIP DF and Splints. I was looking forward to playing with you again, Splints

[Turnip Head]

FZ, and that is also possible. I am just trying to wrap my head around the whole "Well, I decided to kill her regardless" aspect of this, and WHY he would do that rather than saying, "Hey Elo, I know you don't really want to play, why not let Timmer have your spot?". I guess I just don't understand it at all.

Because Epi also thinks that the mathematical probabilities point to Elo/Timmer being bad.

[FZ.]

FZ, and that is also possible. I am just trying to wrap my head around the whole "Well, I decided to kill her regardless" aspect of this, and WHY he would do that rather than saying, "Hey Elo, I know you don't really want to play, why not let Timmer have your spot?". I guess I just don't understand it at all.

Because Epi also thinks that the mathematical probabilities point to Elo/Timmer being bad.

TH, what do you make of all this? Who is looking fishy to you?

What do you think about the BF/Bullz back and forth?

Bullz, I don't remember if you answered BF, but now that you're still alive, would you share who you're suspicious of?

[Turnip Head]

FZ, I have said that at this point it's mainly Roxy, ika and Soneji looking fishy to me. I was briefly concerned with SVS keeping her vote on Epi all day yesterday and not voting for him yet today, but her response to this point was satisfactory to me.

I don't suspect BF, he seems normal. I think Bullz has said some some not-so-civvie-minded things but I don't think that makes him bad at the moment. I've seen him react similarly in other games where he's been a civvie, so I think that's just how he plays. I think the baddies are laying low and looking for ways to blend in.

[FZ.]

FZ, I have said that at this point it's mainly Roxy, ika and Soneji looking fishy to me. I was briefly concerned with SVS keeping her vote on Epi all day yesterday and not voting for him yet today, but her response to this point was satisfactory to me.

I don't suspect BF, he seems normal. I think Bullz has said some some not-so-civvie-minded things but I don't think that makes him bad at the moment. I've seen him react similarly in other games where he's been a civvie, so I think that's just how he plays. I think the baddies are laying low and looking for ways to blend in.

Thanks :-) I remember you saying something about wanting to hear more from ika and Sonjei. So you think they are bad just because they're not posting more?
What about the ballsy people? Wouldn't you think they like your theory and are talking more to not seem blendy? You could actually be one of those. Though at this point, I haven't seen you put in as much as I expect from you. And assuming you're going to be gone in a bit (it hasn't started already, has it?), I would really love to hear more from you.

[Bullzeye]

While BTSC is a little hard to pin down in this game (neither the arch villains or the detectives actually say they have btsc, for instance, though I assume they probably do, being small groups), I'm a little surprised that you still are pushing bf as suspicious for this, bullz.

I only just noticed this now in my re-read of the thread, but I can't believe anyone thought I was pushing BF as suspicious. I was saying I found his atttitude suspicious at the time of my vote, a whole day before the discussion this post references. Given that I can't see the future, I had no way of knowing whether it was a good or bad thing until too late. Any discussion of BF I have engaged in has been within the context of justifying my vote. If I didn't do that, I'd get heat for having voted Llama and not even having a reason why. I 100% believed I was dead as soon as I saw Llama's role, and decided to try to change the mind of the ninja. Besides, I won't lie about myself to help someone else, especially not somebody who is trying to get me killed anyway.

In fact, regarding BF, I think it's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that he's not a detective. I'd be dead if he was. His attitude towards me is not the attitude of a man open to being convinced. He'd be dancing on my grave right now if he had the ability to kill.

Rest in peace splintsy and DF.

I agree with Pied Piper, I will be looking at Roxy today. I felt like she used a manufactured reason to vote for Epi yesterday, and her tone so far has had me concerned. I'd also like to hear more from ika and Soneji today.

I do see what people are saying about Roxy but it does look like she's silenced so I will let it go for the time being since I'm not willing to vote a silenced player this early without much to support it. Not to mention, I'm not convinced Epi isn't bad. His fixation on an Elo lynch for arbitrary reasons is not something I trust or see as genuine. At best, I think he could be indy, and if I could be convinced he was at least that then I'd happily let him stick around.

Roxy is def. on my list of people I'd like to hear from. Also, I'd like to know what Sophie thinks, once she locks in on a game she often has good instincts about things.

And I haven't played with rabbit in forever, but I remember his instincts being pretty good too, so I'd like to see what LC has to say about rabbit's calling him bad.

I don't feel great about bullz' posts about bf, either.

I'd like someone to explain how else I could defend my opinion on Llama when it was almost entirely based around BF's reaction to people voting for him. You could argue I should have kept quiet at night but even before then it wasn't hard to play spot the defender. Plus I was convinced I'd be killed anyway so wanted to try to talk the detectives out of it.

Yes, that's exact why. He didn't specifically say it out loud, he just kept mentioning how much bf had been fighting against a llama lynch in a way that seemed to be wanting others to come to the detective conclusion. I found that weird. And while none of our win conditions actually say that we need the detectives to be alive, it's not like they are irrelevant? They fight the New Rogues, which makes them direct allies! So anyone trying to point one out without saying it is more likely to be a New Rogue, imo.

The Day 1 case against bullz wasn't good at all, but his later posts about bf have changed the outlook on him in my eyes.

I only spontaneously mentioned it once. Then I said something like it's easy to find someone suspicious if they're being so heavily defended and got asked who was defending Llama, so backed up my points. In hindsight, that one wasn't the best idea but I could hardly ignore a direct question. I wasn't trying to help anyone come to any conclusions about BF, I thought he might be a detective personally but I'm now convinced he isn't. That explanation of what he thought Llama's role was was far too intricate to be made up on the spot. Again, I only mentioned BF's opposition to Llama's lynch in the context of how it influenced my vote. I couldn't defend it without doing that. Nobody can deny he was trying to squash discussion - an accusation that I personally loathe but find fitting here.

I will also echo the sentiments of those hoping to hear from Soneji, perhaps it's just a different site culture but slapping a vote down (particularly into a bandwagon) with no comment is interesting for all the wrong reasons.

It's a matter of phrasing. I don't qualify my opinions or thoughts with "I think" or "In my opinion" or "I personally believe."

I personally believe you probably should. I think it would help you a lot. In my opinion, it's a key aspect of people misunderstanding your intents and you look worse for it. It's also a pretty lazy way of doubling back on something. "Oh I totally didn't mean to present that as fact I just didn't explicitly state it was only a guess".

I voted based on probability predicated on an assumption I had a good reason to make. For Day 1, I think my reasoning was a hell of lot better than OMG HE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT THE MONKEY.

I want to go reread the people who voted for Llama because I feel like this is a gross over-exaggeration designed to push heat away from you. There were good reasons to vote for Llama. They may not have been correct, but they did exist. Anyone who did vote him for talking about a monkey is certainly worth investigating.

FZ, and that is also possible. I am just trying to wrap my head around the whole "Well, I decided to kill her regardless" aspect of this, and WHY he would do that rather than saying, "Hey Elo, I know you don't really want to play, why not let Timmer have your spot?". I guess I just don't understand it at all.

Because Epi also thinks that the mathematical probabilities point to Elo/Timmer being bad.

TH, what do you make of all this? Who is looking fishy to you?

What do you think about the BF/Bullz back and forth?

Bullz, I don't remember if you answered BF, but now that you're still alive, would you share who you're suspicious of?

I didn't answer BF yet, have been having tons of fun in the library and on residence support duty. I'll answer you now: Basically Epi at this stage, Soneji to a lesser degree because while I think his(?) vote is suspicious, my own mental devil's advocate is telling me there's a logical explanation. Sometimes I think I'm too open-minded. I can and do talk myself into neutrality on almost any subject. There are a few people I will look back on either during the next few hours or tomorrow morning who currently sit in a grey area of my mind. It might be easier to name the people I definitely don't and probably won't suspect because that's how I work in early game scenarios.

[rabbit8]

Roxy is def. on my list of people I'd like to hear from. Also, I'd like to know what Sophie thinks, once she locks in on a game she often has good instincts about things.

And I haven't played with rabbit in forever, but I remember his instincts being pretty good too, so I'd like to see what LC has to say about rabbit's calling him bad.

I don't feel great about bullz' posts about bf, either.

I don't have much to say about rabbit thinking I'm bad. I don't understand his reasoning - he seemed to have the same opinion of my response post to blindfaeth that Soneji had, that it was saying nothing... but that's not true. His recent post about me using the same ineffective reasoning as I had in other games, well, I don't really know what previous reasoning he's referring to, but I'm sure he'll be happy to clarify.

I'm also not following his vote for blindfaeth today, he will or he won't talk more about that.

What makes you feel not great about bullz' posts about bf? Do you mean how he called him out on likely being a Detective?

You feel like making statements with your day 1 votes. It never works. Why do you do it? Like voting for people who self vote to stop that behavior. Or this game, making the statement that Lama was trying to hard to show his civvie game in some artificial way. What a load. I feel like you're trying to hard to be seen as an Indy, TBH. But hey, do as you do.

BF is bad. You are too.

[Epignosis]

It's a matter of phrasing. I don't qualify my opinions or thoughts with "I think" or "In my opinion" or "I personally believe."

I personally believe you probably should. I think it would help you a lot. In my opinion, it's a key aspect of people misunderstanding your intents and you look worse for it. It's also a pretty lazy way of doubling back on something. "Oh I totally didn't mean to present that as fact I just didn't explicitly state it was only a guess".

Never!

I voted based on probability predicated on an assumption I had a good reason to make. For Day 1, I think my reasoning was a hell of lot better than OMG HE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT THE MONKEY.

I want to go reread the people who voted for Llama because I feel like this is a gross over-exaggeration designed to push heat away from you. There were good reasons to vote for Llama. They may not have been correct, but they did exist. Anyone who did vote him for talking about a monkey is certainly worth investigating.

Ah. You mean to say that I'm trying to distract, only without using that word.

[Turnip Head]

FZ, I have said that at this point it's mainly Roxy, ika and Soneji looking fishy to me. I was briefly concerned with SVS keeping her vote on Epi all day yesterday and not voting for him yet today, but her response to this point was satisfactory to me.

I don't suspect BF, he seems normal. I think Bullz has said some some not-so-civvie-minded things but I don't think that makes him bad at the moment. I've seen him react similarly in other games where he's been a civvie, so I think that's just how he plays. I think the baddies are laying low and looking for ways to blend in.

Thanks :-) I remember you saying something about wanting to hear more from ika and Sonjei. So you think they are bad just because they're not posting more?
What about the ballsy people? Wouldn't you think they like your theory and are talking more to not seem blendy? You could actually be one of those. Though at this point, I haven't seen you put in as much as I expect from you. And assuming you're going to be gone in a bit (it hasn't started already, has it?), I would really love to hear more from you.

This is how much I often talk in the early goings of games FZ, I feel like I say this in every game we play lol, and it's because I don't feel strongly about anyone yet. I'm floundering today because Roxy was honestly my best guess for a baddie based on her Day 1 behavior and I'm not allowed to go after her today, and my other two suspects aren't talking. But I don't suspect Epi or Bullz and I'm a little tired of talking about both of them. Who else do you think I should take a look at?

[Bullzeye]

Ah. You mean to say that I'm trying to distract, only without using that word.

I suppose distract would be a fair word to use. Do you think I avoided it for some specific reason?

[rabbit8]

I would vote for someone I thought was bad even if they could not defend themselves.

[FZ.]

Bullz, thank you for the answer. Did you read what I said about Epi? Did it make any difference? If not, why?

Roxy is def. on my list of people I'd like to hear from. Also, I'd like to know what Sophie thinks, once she locks in on a game she often has good instincts about things.

And I haven't played with rabbit in forever, but I remember his instincts being pretty good too, so I'd like to see what LC has to say about rabbit's calling him bad.

I don't feel great about bullz' posts about bf, either.

I don't have much to say about rabbit thinking I'm bad. I don't understand his reasoning - he seemed to have the same opinion of my response post to blindfaeth that Soneji had, that it was saying nothing... but that's not true. His recent post about me using the same ineffective reasoning as I had in other games, well, I don't really know what previous reasoning he's referring to, but I'm sure he'll be happy to clarify.

I'm also not following his vote for blindfaeth today, he will or he won't talk more about that.

What makes you feel not great about bullz' posts about bf? Do you mean how he called him out on likely being a Detective?

You feel like making statements with your day 1 votes. It never works. Why do you do it? Like voting for people who self vote to stop that behavior. Or this game, making the statement that Lama was trying to hard to show his civvie game in some artificial way. What a load. I feel like you're trying to hard to be seen as an Indy, TBH. But hey, do as you do.

BF is bad. You are too.

If he's bad, why would he want to look like an indie and not a civvie? To survive NK, or is there another reason for it?

And can you repeat again why you think BF is bad? I'm on the fence with him. Not sure what to make of him. I've never played with him again, nor with you, I believe (so hi ). He seems to badly want to lead the game. My question is, is that something he'll do as a baddie?

[FZ.]

FZ, I have said that at this point it's mainly Roxy, ika and Soneji looking fishy to me. I was briefly concerned with SVS keeping her vote on Epi all day yesterday and not voting for him yet today, but her response to this point was satisfactory to me.

I don't suspect BF, he seems normal. I think Bullz has said some some not-so-civvie-minded things but I don't think that makes him bad at the moment. I've seen him react similarly in other games where he's been a civvie, so I think that's just how he plays. I think the baddies are laying low and looking for ways to blend in.

Thanks :-) I remember you saying something about wanting to hear more from ika and Sonjei. So you think they are bad just because they're not posting more?
What about the ballsy people? Wouldn't you think they like your theory and are talking more to not seem blendy? You could actually be one of those. Though at this point, I haven't seen you put in as much as I expect from you. And assuming you're going to be gone in a bit (it hasn't started already, has it?), I would really love to hear more from you.

This is how much I often talk in the early goings of games FZ, I feel like I say this in every game we play lol, and it's because I don't feel strongly about anyone yet. I'm floundering today because Roxy was honestly my best guess for a baddie based on her Day 1 behavior and I'm not allowed to go after her today, and my other two suspects aren't talking. But I don't suspect Epi or Bullz and I'm a little tired of talking about both of them. Who else do you think I should take a look at?

I know you do I'm just afraid that you'll disappear and then I won't get to enjoy your pearls of wisdom
Actually, Timmer really bothers me. Admittedly, there are 2 reasons for this:
1. I have a feeling Epig somehow found out Eloh is really bad, and maybe now is backing off because he feels bad for Timmer...but I could be wrong
2. Since he started playing, I feel like he's been saying all the "right" things. I can't really back it up with a case, but it's a feeling. Also, the fact that Eloh really did answer in a weird way when she was still playing, and I also feel like Timmer knows it and was trying to get himself out of it in a very smart way.

[Bullzeye]

Bullz, thank you for the answer. Did you read what I said about Epi? Did it make any difference? If not, why?

The one where you said you think bad Epi would be more careful? I saw that. There were other things you said about him as well but this one stands out to me as an interpretation I particularly disagree with. Just last game he (a baddie) accused LC of having info on him when LC had no such thing and was simply making a case. If I'd not also been bad I'd have seen that as a confession of guilt and voted him regardless of my hate for info. The defence he put up there was definitely a risk and it didn't pay off at all, but Epi certainly takes risks when he wants to.

And can you repeat again why you think BF is bad? I'm on the fence with him. Not sure what to make of him. I've never played with him again, nor with you, I believe (so hi ). He seems to badly want to lead the game. My question is, is that something he'll do as a baddie?

I'm also curious about this. I don't think BF is bad. He tried to lead last time as a civ and it didn't end well at all. There is only one way I see BF being bad and it's currently too much of a stretch to bother sharing.

Linki FZ - I must have been wrong about which Epi post you meant. I don't agree with that logic either simply because it's based on assumptions we've got no way of really looking into properly and that come from things which may or may not have happened outside the game context. Does it mean, however, that you mean to vote for Timmer today if you think Epi knows he's a baddie?

[Turnip Head]

I know you do I'm just afraid that you'll disappear and then I won't get to enjoy your pearls of wisdom
Actually, Timmer really bothers me. Admittedly, there are 2 reasons for this:
1. I have a feeling Epig somehow found out Eloh is really bad, and maybe now is backing off because he feels bad for Timmer...but I could be wrong
2. Since he started playing, I feel like he's been saying all the "right" things. I can't really back it up with a case, but it's a feeling. Also, the fact that Eloh really did answer in a weird way when she was still playing, and I also feel like Timmer knows it and was trying to get himself out of it in a very smart way.

I doubt Epi would back off Timmer just because he feels bad :P

I don't know re: Timmer though. Elo was feeling very genuine to me towards the end, but a lot of that had to do with her asking to be lynched instead of Epi. She got replaced before that could ever actually happen though, so maybe I'm putting too much stock into her empty words.

My question is why would Timmer bring up the Elo thing if he's bad? He could just be trying to be slick, sure, but I feel like that's an unnecessary move to make this early, especially since it seemed like public opinion was on Elo's side before Timmer subbed in.

[FZ.]

Bullz, thank you for the answer. Did you read what I said about Epi? Did it make any difference? If not, why?

The one where you said you think bad Epi would be more careful? I saw that. There were other things you said about him as well but this one stands out to me as an interpretation I particularly disagree with. Just last game he (a baddie) accused LC of having info on him when LC had no such thing and was simply making a case. If I'd not also been bad I'd have seen that as a confession of guilt and voted him regardless of my hate for info. The defence he put up there was definitely a risk and it didn't pay off at all, but Epi certainly takes risks when he wants to.

And can you repeat again why you think BF is bad? I'm on the fence with him. Not sure what to make of him. I've never played with him again, nor with you, I believe (so hi ). He seems to badly want to lead the game. My question is, is that something he'll do as a baddie?

I'm also curious about this. I don't think BF is bad. He tried to lead last time as a civ and it didn't end well at all. There is only one way I see BF being bad and it's currently too much of a stretch to bother sharing.

Linki FZ - I must have been wrong about which Epi post you meant. I don't agree with that logic either simply because it's based on assumptions we've got no way of really looking into properly and that come from things which may or may not have happened outside the game context. Does it mean, however, that you mean to vote for Timmer today if you think Epi knows he's a baddie?

No, I think that was it, though like I said, a part of me thinks there was more to Epig's probability that meets the eye. I can see your point of view but I still think it was unnecessarily risky to try to get Eloh lynched so early by basing it on 2 words. I think waiting just a little longer would have been better, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

I know you do I'm just afraid that you'll disappear and then I won't get to enjoy your pearls of wisdom
Actually, Timmer really bothers me. Admittedly, there are 2 reasons for this:
1. I have a feeling Epig somehow found out Eloh is really bad, and maybe now is backing off because he feels bad for Timmer...but I could be wrong
2. Since he started playing, I feel like he's been saying all the "right" things. I can't really back it up with a case, but it's a feeling. Also, the fact that Eloh really did answer in a weird way when she was still playing, and I also feel like Timmer knows it and was trying to get himself out of it in a very smart way.

I doubt Epi would back off Timmer just because he feels bad :P

I don't know re: Timmer though. Elo was feeling very genuine to me towards the end, but a lot of that had to do with her asking to be lynched instead of Epi. She got replaced before that could ever actually happen though, so maybe I'm putting too much stock into her empty words.

My question is why would Timmer bring up the Elo thing if he's bad? He could just be trying to be slick, sure, but I feel like that's an unnecessary move to make this early, especially since it seemed like public opinion was on Elo's side before Timmer subbed in.

Compared to other players in the game (not including me), how similar to your game would you rate Timmer's style?

[rabbit8]

Bullz, thank you for the answer. Did you read what I said about Epi? Did it make any difference? If not, why?

Roxy is def. on my list of people I'd like to hear from. Also, I'd like to know what Sophie thinks, once she locks in on a game she often has good instincts about things.

And I haven't played with rabbit in forever, but I remember his instincts being pretty good too, so I'd like to see what LC has to say about rabbit's calling him bad.

I don't feel great about bullz' posts about bf, either.

I don't have much to say about rabbit thinking I'm bad. I don't understand his reasoning - he seemed to have the same opinion of my response post to blindfaeth that Soneji had, that it was saying nothing... but that's not true. His recent post about me using the same ineffective reasoning as I had in other games, well, I don't really know what previous reasoning he's referring to, but I'm sure he'll be happy to clarify.

I'm also not following his vote for blindfaeth today, he will or he won't talk more about that.

What makes you feel not great about bullz' posts about bf? Do you mean how he called him out on likely being a Detective?

You feel like making statements with your day 1 votes. It never works. Why do you do it? Like voting for people who self vote to stop that behavior. Or this game, making the statement that Lama was trying to hard to show his civvie game in some artificial way. What a load. I feel like you're trying to hard to be seen as an Indy, TBH. But hey, do as you do.

BF is bad. You are too.

If he's bad, why would he want to look like an indie and not a civvie? To survive NK, or is there another reason for it?

And can you repeat again why you think BF is bad? I'm on the fence with him. Not sure what to make of him. I've never played with him again, nor with you, I believe (so hi ). He seems to badly want to lead the game. My question is, is that something he'll do as a baddie?

IDW I just get the feeling BF is bad.
Playing up the civvie card if you ask me.

[FZ.]

Bullz, thank you for the answer. Did you read what I said about Epi? Did it make any difference? If not, why?

Roxy is def. on my list of people I'd like to hear from. Also, I'd like to know what Sophie thinks, once she locks in on a game she often has good instincts about things.

And I haven't played with rabbit in forever, but I remember his instincts being pretty good too, so I'd like to see what LC has to say about rabbit's calling him bad.

I don't feel great about bullz' posts about bf, either.

I don't have much to say about rabbit thinking I'm bad. I don't understand his reasoning - he seemed to have the same opinion of my response post to blindfaeth that Soneji had, that it was saying nothing... but that's not true. His recent post about me using the same ineffective reasoning as I had in other games, well, I don't really know what previous reasoning he's referring to, but I'm sure he'll be happy to clarify.

I'm also not following his vote for blindfaeth today, he will or he won't talk more about that.

What makes you feel not great about bullz' posts about bf? Do you mean how he called him out on likely being a Detective?

You feel like making statements with your day 1 votes. It never works. Why do you do it? Like voting for people who self vote to stop that behavior. Or this game, making the statement that Lama was trying to hard to show his civvie game in some artificial way. What a load. I feel like you're trying to hard to be seen as an Indy, TBH. But hey, do as you do.

BF is bad. You are too.

If he's bad, why would he want to look like an indie and not a civvie? To survive NK, or is there another reason for it?

And can you repeat again why you think BF is bad? I'm on the fence with him. Not sure what to make of him. I've never played with him again, nor with you, I believe (so hi ). He seems to badly want to lead the game. My question is, is that something he'll do as a baddie?

IDW I just get the feeling BF is bad.
Playing up the civvie card if you ask me.

I guess I deserved that
Still, it's way easier to just keep saying someone is bad without having to back it up with anything else. At least I tried.

[Turnip Head]

FZ, I would say that Timmer's playstyle has more in common with my own than that of many other players in the game. I think he's crafty both when he's a civvie and a baddie and that it can be difficult to accurately discern his intentions. I can also say that I felt way more comfortable reading Elo than I do reading Timmer

[rabbit8]

Bullz, thank you for the answer. Did you read what I said about Epi? Did it make any difference? If not, why?

Roxy is def. on my list of people I'd like to hear from. Also, I'd like to know what Sophie thinks, once she locks in on a game she often has good instincts about things.

And I haven't played with rabbit in forever, but I remember his instincts being pretty good too, so I'd like to see what LC has to say about rabbit's calling him bad.

I don't feel great about bullz' posts about bf, either.

I don't have much to say about rabbit thinking I'm bad. I don't understand his reasoning - he seemed to have the same opinion of my response post to blindfaeth that Soneji had, that it was saying nothing... but that's not true. His recent post about me using the same ineffective reasoning as I had in other games, well, I don't really know what previous reasoning he's referring to, but I'm sure he'll be happy to clarify.

I'm also not following his vote for blindfaeth today, he will or he won't talk more about that.

What makes you feel not great about bullz' posts about bf? Do you mean how he called him out on likely being a Detective?

You feel like making statements with your day 1 votes. It never works. Why do you do it? Like voting for people who self vote to stop that behavior. Or this game, making the statement that Lama was trying to hard to show his civvie game in some artificial way. What a load. I feel like you're trying to hard to be seen as an Indy, TBH. But hey, do as you do.

BF is bad. You are too.

If he's bad, why would he want to look like an indie and not a civvie? To survive NK, or is there another reason for it?

And can you repeat again why you think BF is bad? I'm on the fence with him. Not sure what to make of him. I've never played with him again, nor with you, I believe (so hi ). He seems to badly want to lead the game. My question is, is that something he'll do as a baddie?

IDW I just get the feeling BF is bad.
Playing up the civvie card if you ask me.

I guess I deserved that
Still, it's way easier to just keep saying someone is bad without having to back it up with anything else. At least I tried.

lol, I will try harder before the lynch ends. I just got done building a deck with a shed this weekend. I'm not as young as I used to be. SO lets say my mafia attitude is not there at the moment. But I wanted to get in here and read the thread at least.

[FZ.]

I'm going to sleep.

TH, to answer your question, I think that TImmer knew Eloh practically admitted that she didn't have BTSC. It did narrow the options of his roles, and Eloh was acting weird. Even though some expressed feeling she was being genuine, others didn't say much, or thought Epig was being genuine. I think he might have felt like he needed to do some "fixing" just in case and what better way to do so then saying how he himself would have thought Eloh was acting suspicious? Because if you admit it, it can't actually be true, right?

And to answer your question, Bullz, I'm thinking of voting him, but I still have another day to go, and I want to see what it will bring.
I'm also worried about Sophie. If I'm not wrong, she's barely posted anything of content in the last day. And no, I don't consider telling us she's drunk, content. It's like she's making sure to be seen and maybe even throw an on topic sentence here and there, but basically, nothing helpful...no offence.

linki: Thank you TH and Rabbit for your answers.
TH, I had a feeling you'd answer like that. That's why I get a feeling I can read Timmer better than I can other players here...but after the llama fiasco, I'm a lot more hesitant.
Rabbit, I'll be looking forward to reading that

NIght

[Epignosis]

Ah. You mean to say that I'm trying to distract, only without using that word.

I suppose distract would be a fair word to use. Do you think I avoided it for some specific reason?

I'm tired of people labeling every thing I say as a distraction.

If you or anyone else wants to talk about me, fucking talk. But stop saying I'm distracting you from doing it.

[DharmaHelper]

Very busy weekend, I'll catch up tonight and get back into things on Monday.

[Long Con]

Roxy is def. on my list of people I'd like to hear from. Also, I'd like to know what Sophie thinks, once she locks in on a game she often has good instincts about things.

And I haven't played with rabbit in forever, but I remember his instincts being pretty good too, so I'd like to see what LC has to say about rabbit's calling him bad.

I don't feel great about bullz' posts about bf, either.

I don't have much to say about rabbit thinking I'm bad. I don't understand his reasoning - he seemed to have the same opinion of my response post to blindfaeth that Soneji had, that it was saying nothing... but that's not true. His recent post about me using the same ineffective reasoning as I had in other games, well, I don't really know what previous reasoning he's referring to, but I'm sure he'll be happy to clarify.

I'm also not following his vote for blindfaeth today, he will or he won't talk more about that.

What makes you feel not great about bullz' posts about bf? Do you mean how he called him out on likely being a Detective?

You feel like making statements with your day 1 votes. It never works. Why do you do it? Like voting for people who self vote to stop that behavior. Or this game, making the statement that Lama was trying to hard to show his civvie game in some artificial way. What a load. I feel like you're trying to hard to be seen as an Indy, TBH. But hey, do as you do.

I understand how voting people who Day One Vote Themselves All The Time can be considered a "statement", but I don't see how that applies to my vote for Llama. I wasn't standing up against Artificial Civvie Showing by casting my vote, I just found iLlama suspicious for it.

BF is bad. You are too.

I agree, except in a completely opposite kind of way.

[rabbit8]

I feel like you're trying to say you're too civvie, you're bad.

While you are trying to play up the helpfulness aspect these first days yourself.

Hypocritical.

I felt while you where voting you made it seem like you had to vote someone who was trying to act extremely civvie. I was thinking this was going to be your new shtick.

[Long Con]

I feel like you're trying to say you're too civvie, you're bad.

While you are trying to play up the helpfulness aspect these first days yourself.

Hypocritical.

I felt while you where voting you made it seem like you had to vote someone who was trying to act extremely civvie. I was thinking this was going to be your new shtick.

Well, you've got a lot of feelings about my game already that don't really match how I feel when I'm playing my game. I'm not looking for a new shtick, sorry to disappoint you.

[Epignosis]

I know you do I'm just afraid that you'll disappear and then I won't get to enjoy your pearls of wisdom
Actually, Timmer really bothers me. Admittedly, there are 2 reasons for this:
1. I have a feeling Epig somehow found out Eloh is really bad, and maybe now is backing off because he feels bad for Timmer...but I could be wrong
2. Since he started playing, I feel like he's been saying all the "right" things. I can't really back it up with a case, but it's a feeling. Also, the fact that Eloh really did answer in a weird way when she was still playing, and I also feel like Timmer knows it and was trying to get himself out of it in a very smart way.

I doubt Epi would back off Timmer just because he feels bad :P

I want to be clear on this. I did not find out Eloh was bad, and I don't feel bad for timmer. Knowing her reason for signing up, I gauged her reaction to determine if she had BTSC. I determined that she did not (she all but confirmed this), and did the math. Good reason to vote for her Day 1, my ulterior motive notwithstanding.

All things being equal, I would vote timmer (or Eloh, as the poll shows) again. But it's Day 2. I have more to work with.

[rabbit8]

I'm disappointed you're not really helping the civvies but are trying make it look that way, LC.

I have no idea how you feel. I only know what you're portraying.