The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[FZ.]

@FZ, certainly think what you want to think. I mean sure, if I were bad and felt that Eloh had stumbled a bit in her response to Epig and no one had really noticed or paid attention to it, it would make perfect sense to bring it up myself and point it... no, wait, actually it wouldn't?

Maybe I've got a civ role, and did an honest read through of the game, including my own predecessor's posts? You don't think that would make a wee bit more sense?

First, If you really caught up like you claim, you would have seen that a few people said Eloh's reply was fishy (TH and I come to mind as an example of those people), so claiming no one paid attention to it, would be either a lie or negligence.
Second, it obviously did make sense to bring it up yourself because other than me, I see no one really looking at you as a suspect (maybe Sophie, considering her last post). Like I said, I think it was a tactic to make you look good, and it seems like it did pay off.

Yeah, I recall when TH was asked why he would bring it up himself, my first thought was, "Well, just so people would say things just like that!"

After the intensity (for me at least) of the last lynch, I decided to take a step back today and plan to consider all cases, not just my own. I may still vote for Epi, but we'll see. I am caught up to current events, and hope to do some specific rereading today.

I am looking at Epi, LC & maybe sorta Timmer. That is where I want to reread. I would liken Timmer more to Bullz, really, than anyone. Bad or good. He can get a bit of an intense edge in a very similar way, but overall he is level & logical. My feelings on LC are hard to quantify, he is saying things that make me distrust him, but does not have that hearty, faux cheery demeanor I associate with bad LC. So it could just be paranoia.

Also, I know Soneji is new to our ways & polls. But where he plays, unvoting is the norm. So not sure why he would think it was OK to not so something of the sort here. At least announce his intentions.

Even I figured none of the Detectives voted for Llama, but the other part of Epis post was something I had not considered.

I kinda have the feels that BF/Bullz can be civ/civ. I am not seeing anything alarming from BF, and Bullz seems pretty sincere. Having just seen baddie rage from him in HSK, this looks different to me, this feels more indignant. Less angry. More civ. Like everything else, God knows I could be wrong

I get the intensity thing. I wasn't there at the end of the day, so it wasn't too intense for me, but I was one of the leaders of the llama lynch, and look where it got us. I don't think I want to lead another lynch today, not because if I'm wrong, I'll look worse (though I probably will), but because I feel really bad when I lynch a civvie. So, I'm not going to convince anyone else to vote for Timmer, but I think he's bad.

As for Bullz, I think he's a civvie too, but I've never seen him as bad. Epig, who knows. Most of the time I think he's okay.

[rabbit8]

LC vs rabbit seems too....rogger rabbit.
rabbit is acting weird, though. Upon reading him go against LC, he seemed like he was under some kind of curse or kinda faking something, and this is coming from someone who usually thinks rabbit is a civvie. Yeah, i pretty much always thinks he is civvie, even if he is baddie. but i dont know, something seemed off in his posts.

but this is just an impression after a very fast read of the last 3 pages. beare with me, but ive been super busy today (election day here in BA) and my brother is coming to visit me tomorrow. add that to work and university and boyfriend and you got a picture. i will be reading and contributing as much as i can, but this is not gonna be a week with much free time for me. at least until next monday, cause first my brother comes, then my grandma turns 90 and we both travel to our natal city, so all in all is an insane week.

i will do my best to remain updated.

having said so, gotta go to sleep now, its super late, but will be back tomorrow to read and reread players that caught my attention. mainly epi and bullz, but also roxy, rabbit, lc and timmer. im not saying im necesarily suspicion of all of them, but some things said in the last pages caught my attention and i need to reread, go back, read again, and make my conclusions.

now to sleep its late

Just vote for BF, he's bad, very bad.

[timmer]

t up like you claim, you would have seen that a few people said Eloh's reply was fishy (TH and I come to mind as an example of those people), so claiming no one paid attention to it, would be either a lie or negligence.
Second, it obviously did make sense to bring it up yourself because other than me, I see no one really looking at you as a suspect (maybe Sophie, considering her last post). Like I said, I think it was a tactic to make you look good, and it seems like it did pay off.

So now I'm lying about reading the thread? Jeez man, read my posts! Yes I know some people mentioned it, That's why I said THIS:

I pointed it out, because I see a roomful of people arguing over past games and whether llama would say monkey is he were the monkey, and almost no one really talked about how garbled Eloh's reply was. It's a sign that maybe some of the people who were the most active were choosing not to branch out to other cases/suspicions and also not even looking for others, but adamantly sticking to their chosen one, something that is more of a baddie tell, to me.

Why are you trying so hard to twist my words and make me seem shady?

[timmer]

Where I'm at with this lynch:

I still am pinged by Roxy but won't vote for her while apparently silenced. Not this early in the game, anyway, if i had a rock solid case later on I would.

My ping on SVS is still there but she has handled today very well and thanks to either her honesty or solid abilities at being a lying FEB, I don't feel like I've much here to promote a vote.

I don't feel like bullz has really fixed my perception of him, so I may vote his way.

My other issue here is Bass. Bass seems to be cursed, having to say cheat in every post. As soon as people noticed that and mentioned it, he sort of disappeared. Here's my conspiracy theory: the role that seems to involve curses is Double Down (cursed playing cards). He is a New Rogue. Another New Rogue is Blacksmith who needs to find her teamies and gain btsc. Considering that Bass was in NO way a major poster in the game on Day 1, and is kind of a weird choice to be cursed, I feel like there is a decent chance that Bass is Double Down, cursed himself, and is using it as a shout out to Blacksmith. He basically posted a whole bunch of fluff posts to get the curse noticed, and then four hours later posted in the sockys thread but never actually tried to contribute to the game.

My vote will be for bullz or Bass, at this point.

[blindfaeth]

I wonder if there is a possibility rabbit is cursed too.

[Bullzeye]

I wonder if there is a possibility rabbit is cursed too.

Or perhaps he just has a firm grasp on the obvious.








I'm kidding, of course. It does look like he is cursed.

[Black Rock]

I wonder if there is a possibility rabbit is cursed too.

Seems like normal Rabbit to me. Throughout the day I have been some catch up. I was very far behind. I'm hoping to have some time tonight to go over things and see how I feel about people. I have no solid suspicions yet.

[FZ.]

t up like you claim, you would have seen that a few people said Eloh's reply was fishy (TH and I come to mind as an example of those people), so claiming no one paid attention to it, would be either a lie or negligence.
Second, it obviously did make sense to bring it up yourself because other than me, I see no one really looking at you as a suspect (maybe Sophie, considering her last post). Like I said, I think it was a tactic to make you look good, and it seems like it did pay off.

So now I'm lying about reading the thread? Jeez man, read my posts! Yes I know some people mentioned it, That's why I said THIS:

I pointed it out, because I see a roomful of people arguing over past games and whether llama would say monkey is he were the monkey, and almost no one really talked about how garbled Eloh's reply was. It's a sign that maybe some of the people who were the most active were choosing not to branch out to other cases/suspicions and also not even looking for others, but adamantly sticking to their chosen one, something that is more of a baddie tell, to me.

Why are you trying so hard to twist my words and make me seem shady?

I'm backing off for now, because for some reason, this post made me feel better about you. Still, you asked why would you say what you did if no one was even talking about Elo, but we did, so I gave TH and I as an example. Either you want to precise or you don't. Make up your mind.

In any case, that's an interesting point regarding Bass, though he's not much of a talker, so the fact he hasn't posted when he posted somewhere else doesn't mean much. Yet your theory could be true.

[FZ.]

By the way, I'm still waiting for EPig's conclusions from all he had to work with on the second day.

I'm also still waiting to hear from BR.

[Epignosis]

Oh? Okay.

[Epignosis]

People who voted thellama73:

DH:

Did you want to?

I don't think he's a civvie. I don't like his whole Day 0 schtick, it got annoying very quickly. Also, I noticed he didn't berate anyone for any logical fallacies throughout the entire duration of Day 0. People were jumping to conclusions all over the place and Llama did not voice any opposition to it.

DH was annoyed. He also expressed dissatisfaction with llama not refuting speculation. In a later post, DH said he would pull some quotes after his reread, but he did not do this. He spent the rest of the time making fun of me.

++++

FZ.:

FZ.'s first very first post commented on llama drawing attention and not being helpful. She later wonders why llama keeps talking about the monkey and how lame The Flash is, and questions why he didn't ask these questions in the sign up thread. Here is her large anti-llama post:

So, llama

I agree with DH's analysis on llama. In addition, I saw it brought up, and I actually found myself agreeing with it: I think there's a big chance llama is trying very hard to play civvie llama. A little too hard. Here's what llama is "supposed" to do as a civvie:

1. Joke a lot and be very out there, to the point where it feels like he doesn't care that he seems too jokey.
Check! Look at all the day 0 monkey jokes, as well as the "Flash is lame" remarks. (By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be the monkey himself )

2. He talks about low posters.
Check. But it feels like he's doing it just for the sake of the "check". One mention of a low poster

3. He finds a person to go after and starts a narrow minded crusade.
Check. Bullzeye is the new victim. While I have no idea if he's bad or not, the suspicion seems contrived, and his replies to Bullz defences seem different than his usual convinced ones.


But what really made me suspicious was this post:

Did you see the part in btsc where I said I always play my baddie game because it's the only game I know? Did you see the part in this game where I've been helpful and nice and given everyone the benefit of the doubt? All I've said this entire game amounts to "sometimes a joke is just a joke". What do you mean looking for people who know they are bad? Everyone knows their role. Everyone knows if they're good or bad as far as I can tell.

I was trying to go to sleep, but this post kept gnawing away at my brain until I finally realized why. Why does Bullz word his response in this way? Why does he say "I always play my baddie game"? Why not "I always play my civvie game" or "My baddie game and my civvie game look just alike"?

If he always plays his baddie game, that means he is playing it now. Why would anyone admit to playing their baddie game? Keeping my psychologist hat on for a moment, I think Bullz is being betrayed by his subconscious. Maybe even, on some deep level, he wants to get caught.

I'm going to go ahead and place my vote on him for now.

He's claiming that he couldn't fall asleep because he was thinking about one post from Bullz that wouldn't leave him alone. llama, a regular Sherlock Homes losing sleep over a case. Something is bothering him about one sentence and he can't let go, until he solves the great mystery.
Seriously?? This is something I've done as a baddie. I'd look for something that I can use to frame someone, and when I find a "slip", I'm so pleased with myself and make it look like I was really bothered by it. If llama was losing sleep over something, especially at this stage in the game, it's how to look like he's doing detective work, not over who is bad.

If nothing changes, that's probably where my vote is going

Two things of note:

First, she says she agrees with DH's "analysis" on thellama73. DH hardly analyzed anything. DH was annoyed and didn't like that thellama73 wasn't playing the way he expected him to play.

Second, FZ. said "I think there's a big chance llama is trying very hard to play civvie llama." What a strange bit of phrasing. Why would there be a "big chance" that llama is trying very hard to look like "civvie llama?" Saying that there is a "big chance" of something happening indicates probability...but what indicates that "big chance?" For FZ., it was llama's behavior in other games (which FZ. admits she has lynched him twice and he was civilian both times).

I'm not liking the most recent couple of posts from fz that I've seen.

Fz analyzed Epi and llama and says will probably vote llama. I'm not buying it. The thoughts for Epi were more concrete and all fz had to say about llama is that he's acting exactly like civvie llama.

No, that's not all I had to say about llama, and it's not what I said at all. First of all, I said he felt like he was trying to act like a civvie, and if I go by llama's logic of how to catch baddies who have no BTSC but know they are baddies, he fits that description to me, more than anyone else.

The post I quoted from him is something that I've done as a baddie, and seems like a blatant lie.

I don't believe he was losing sleep at this stage in the game, over a post Bullz made, which he'd have to memorize to be able to have a sudden "eureka" moment. Please . I have lost sleep over mafia games, but it was never this early, but rather at a much later stage in the game, where I had much more information and was trying to put things together.

BF, if you'd rather find my suspicion of him not genuine, rather than this obvious lie, then I'd say either you're logic is very bad, or you're bad.

Further more, last two games I went after llama, and he was a civ, he retorted in a cocky "no one is impressed with your accusations" kind of reply. While now, he hasn't said a thing of that sort. He's being very "cool" about it. I don't buy it.

FZ. called llama's losing sleep comment an "obvious lie." What's obvious now is that llama would have had no reason to lie about this. So what made it an obvious lie on Day 1? FZ.'s incredulousness- that's all.

++++

Bullzeye:

thellama73 put Bullzeye on the defense. llama explained what he was looking for in potential Mafia, and he also cited his recent experience hosting evil Bullz in HSK. Bullzeye's responses were defensive, almost to the point of "How dare you suspect me?" He admitted this much. Bullzeye voted for llama because llama suspected him.

Somehow didn't realise the poll was due to end so early. I am not sure who to vote for... Maybe Llama because not only are his reasons for coming after me so ridiculously contrived, but BF also seems to have a vested interest in keeping him alive and pushing people away from suspecting him. I'd be interested to know why. In fact, why not. I'll be voting Llama.

In a typical setup, I wouldn't give much thought to this post. But this isn't a typical setup, and now that llama has flipped, this post is a red flag.

Also, for those like keeping up with such things, I am almost sure that Bullzeye has used more adverbs than anybody else. His latest penultimate post alone was a doozy.

++++

Turnip Head:

He's my sidekick!

I voted for Llama. I suspect him more than I suspect Epi. It feels like Llama is putting on a little bit of an act this game.

TH participated in a number of discussions Day 1, and regarding thellama73, didn't really comment much except about X-Men. This post indicates that he saw it was just the two of us bringing in the votes and felt compelled that he had to choose between us. Since votes could be changed, it's not easy to determine how many votes I had when TH voted, and therefore, it's hard for me to take anything meaningful from his vote.

++++

Soneji:

He voted thellama73 because thellama73 seemed more self-interested than helping "the group."

-Llama talks in a manner that speaks of self-interest and nonchalance, traits that are more associated with mafia who have more knowledge and vested interest in their individual performance over that of a townie who should care more about the group.

I get that Soneji isn't from around here, but this is a strange thing to say given this setup. How do the Mafia here have more knowledge?

++++

Black Rock:

BR expressed a certain reluctance to vote for thellama73, but ultimately did:

I didn't realize the poll ended so early in the day. I have spent the last 15 mins going over the last few pages. I am still so undecided on where I want to place my vote. I don't really suspect Epignosis at this point, I just think he's a bit of a conclusion jumper. I might have to vote for Llama because I don't believe his day 0 antics were as innocent as he would like them to appear. I feel like he was trying to get something across to someone. I did like Aces post on SVS, its such a small thing but I understand what he's talking about.

Now that I have wasted another 5 mins staring at this post I think I will just vote Llama. I have this nagging feeling he can't be trusted this game. He's up to something.

Of thellama73 voters, Black Rock feels the most genuine to me. However, for the first time, I just had a lengthy Mafia experience with her in HSK, and I got to admire her manipulative skill from a front row seat.

++++

Long Con:

Unlike the other llama voters, LC was aware and kept making it clear that he was sure Magenta would stopthe lynch. Now that awareness could be construed as an attempt to be preemptively apologetic about his vote. He had already voted blindfaeth prior, so that fact leads me to suspect that was not the case, however.

++++

That's why people said they voted llama. I am still going over in my head which reasons I believe and which ones don't pass the smell test.

[Marmot]

Tell me, do you think I suck at this game? Or do you just think I'm stupid? Because those are the only two reasons I can think of for why I, if I were the recruiter, would begin to go after someone I'd confirmed wasn't bad. I'd gain nothing from doing that except making myself look worse. Knowing someone isn't bad and knowing someone is a particular role are different things, and since I still wouldn't know who Epi was I'd just leave him alone since he's probably going to get lynched with or without my help at some point.

I think no such things about other players. I like to assume that every other player is smart, and that I am clever if I can catch a smart player's mistake.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I didn't miss it TH, it's Game of Thrones time.

Rabbit vs. LC feels like civ vs. civ to me. Where are you looking for this lynch, LC?

I'm most suspicious of Bass right now.

I agree that options on day one suck most the time. I think it might be worth looking at the people who avoided the two top vote getters. I would almost bet one out of the six are bad. I'm not counting timmer because he wasn't caught up.

This statement gave me a ping, it's casting a broad suspicion across six people while not directly going after any of them. This is the kind of thing that pushes people to follow its lead and make accusations, which Bass could then follow along with if it seems like it could catch on. Also, at 23 posts, he's flying under the radar quite a bit.

Sorry that yoou feell cheated because I havvnt been posting a ton. Let me ask you something do you think theres a good chance a baddie could be among those six people? I have seen people on mafia teams do that almost every game.

[Marmot]

I kinda have the feels that BF/Bullz can be civ/civ. I am not seeing anything alarming from BF, and Bullz seems pretty sincere. Having just seen baddie rage from him in HSK, this looks different to me, this feels more indignant. Less angry. More civ. Like everything else, God knows I could be wrong

I don't know, he sounds angry to (at) me.

[Marmot]

I get the intensity thing. I wasn't there at the end of the day, so it wasn't too intense for me, but I was one of the leaders of the llama lynch, and look where it got us. I don't think I want to lead another lynch today, not because if I'm wrong, I'll look worse (though I probably will), but because I feel really bad when I lynch a civvie. So, I'm not going to convince anyone else to vote for Timmer, but I think he's bad.

As for Bullz, I think he's a civvie too, but I've never seen him as bad. Epig, who knows. Most of the time I think he's okay.

I don't want you to lead a lynch today either, k?

[FZ.]

People who voted thellama73:

DH:

Did you want to?

I don't think he's a civvie. I don't like his whole Day 0 schtick, it got annoying very quickly. Also, I noticed he didn't berate anyone for any logical fallacies throughout the entire duration of Day 0. People were jumping to conclusions all over the place and Llama did not voice any opposition to it.

DH was annoyed. He also expressed dissatisfaction with llama not refuting speculation. In a later post, DH said he would pull some quotes after his reread, but he did not do this. He spent the rest of the time making fun of me.

++++

FZ.:

FZ.'s first very first post commented on llama drawing attention and not being helpful. She later wonders why llama keeps talking about the monkey and how lame The Flash is, and questions why he didn't ask these questions in the sign up thread. Here is her large anti-llama post:

So, llama

I agree with DH's analysis on llama. In addition, I saw it brought up, and I actually found myself agreeing with it: I think there's a big chance llama is trying very hard to play civvie llama. A little too hard. Here's what llama is "supposed" to do as a civvie:

1. Joke a lot and be very out there, to the point where it feels like he doesn't care that he seems too jokey.
Check! Look at all the day 0 monkey jokes, as well as the "Flash is lame" remarks. (By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be the monkey himself )

2. He talks about low posters.
Check. But it feels like he's doing it just for the sake of the "check". One mention of a low poster

3. He finds a person to go after and starts a narrow minded crusade.
Check. Bullzeye is the new victim. While I have no idea if he's bad or not, the suspicion seems contrived, and his replies to Bullz defences seem different than his usual convinced ones.


But what really made me suspicious was this post:

Did you see the part in btsc where I said I always play my baddie game because it's the only game I know? Did you see the part in this game where I've been helpful and nice and given everyone the benefit of the doubt? All I've said this entire game amounts to "sometimes a joke is just a joke". What do you mean looking for people who know they are bad? Everyone knows their role. Everyone knows if they're good or bad as far as I can tell.

I was trying to go to sleep, but this post kept gnawing away at my brain until I finally realized why. Why does Bullz word his response in this way? Why does he say "I always play my baddie game"? Why not "I always play my civvie game" or "My baddie game and my civvie game look just alike"?

If he always plays his baddie game, that means he is playing it now. Why would anyone admit to playing their baddie game? Keeping my psychologist hat on for a moment, I think Bullz is being betrayed by his subconscious. Maybe even, on some deep level, he wants to get caught.

I'm going to go ahead and place my vote on him for now.

He's claiming that he couldn't fall asleep because he was thinking about one post from Bullz that wouldn't leave him alone. llama, a regular Sherlock Homes losing sleep over a case. Something is bothering him about one sentence and he can't let go, until he solves the great mystery.
Seriously?? This is something I've done as a baddie. I'd look for something that I can use to frame someone, and when I find a "slip", I'm so pleased with myself and make it look like I was really bothered by it. If llama was losing sleep over something, especially at this stage in the game, it's how to look like he's doing detective work, not over who is bad.

If nothing changes, that's probably where my vote is going

Two things of note:

First, she says she agrees with DH's "analysis" on thellama73. DH hardly analyzed anything. DH was annoyed and didn't like that thellama73 wasn't playing the way he expected him to play.

Second, FZ. said "I think there's a big chance llama is trying very hard to play civvie llama." What a strange bit of phrasing. Why would there be a "big chance" that llama is trying very hard to look like "civvie llama?" Saying that there is a "big chance" of something happening indicates probability...but what indicates that "big chance?" For FZ., it was llama's behavior in other games (which FZ. admits she has lynched him twice and he was civilian both times).

I'm not liking the most recent couple of posts from fz that I've seen.

Fz analyzed Epi and llama and says will probably vote llama. I'm not buying it. The thoughts for Epi were more concrete and all fz had to say about llama is that he's acting exactly like civvie llama.

No, that's not all I had to say about llama, and it's not what I said at all. First of all, I said he felt like he was trying to act like a civvie, and if I go by llama's logic of how to catch baddies who have no BTSC but know they are baddies, he fits that description to me, more than anyone else.

The post I quoted from him is something that I've done as a baddie, and seems like a blatant lie.

I don't believe he was losing sleep at this stage in the game, over a post Bullz made, which he'd have to memorize to be able to have a sudden "eureka" moment. Please . I have lost sleep over mafia games, but it was never this early, but rather at a much later stage in the game, where I had much more information and was trying to put things together.

BF, if you'd rather find my suspicion of him not genuine, rather than this obvious lie, then I'd say either you're logic is very bad, or you're bad.

Further more, last two games I went after llama, and he was a civ, he retorted in a cocky "no one is impressed with your accusations" kind of reply. While now, he hasn't said a thing of that sort. He's being very "cool" about it. I don't buy it.

FZ. called llama's losing sleep comment an "obvious lie." What's obvious now is that llama would have had no reason to lie about this. So what made it an obvious lie on Day 1? FZ.'s incredulousness- that's all.

++++

Bullzeye:

thellama73 put Bullzeye on the defense. llama explained what he was looking for in potential Mafia, and he also cited his recent experience hosting evil Bullz in HSK. Bullzeye's responses were defensive, almost to the point of "How dare you suspect me?" He admitted this much. Bullzeye voted for llama because llama suspected him.

Somehow didn't realise the poll was due to end so early. I am not sure who to vote for... Maybe Llama because not only are his reasons for coming after me so ridiculously contrived, but BF also seems to have a vested interest in keeping him alive and pushing people away from suspecting him. I'd be interested to know why. In fact, why not. I'll be voting Llama.

In a typical setup, I wouldn't give much thought to this post. But this isn't a typical setup, and now that llama has flipped, this post is a red flag.

Also, for those like keeping up with such things, I am almost sure that Bullzeye has used more adverbs than anybody else. His latest penultimate post alone was a doozy.

++++

Turnip Head:

He's my sidekick!

I voted for Llama. I suspect him more than I suspect Epi. It feels like Llama is putting on a little bit of an act this game.

TH participated in a number of discussions Day 1, and regarding thellama73, didn't really comment much except about X-Men. This post indicates that he saw it was just the two of us bringing in the votes and felt compelled that he had to choose between us. Since votes could be changed, it's not easy to determine how many votes I had when TH voted, and therefore, it's hard for me to take anything meaningful from his vote.

++++

Soneji:

He voted thellama73 because thellama73 seemed more self-interested than helping "the group."

-Llama talks in a manner that speaks of self-interest and nonchalance, traits that are more associated with mafia who have more knowledge and vested interest in their individual performance over that of a townie who should care more about the group.

I get that Soneji isn't from around here, but this is a strange thing to say given this setup. How do the Mafia here have more knowledge?

++++

Black Rock:

BR expressed a certain reluctance to vote for thellama73, but ultimately did:

I didn't realize the poll ended so early in the day. I have spent the last 15 mins going over the last few pages. I am still so undecided on where I want to place my vote. I don't really suspect Epignosis at this point, I just think he's a bit of a conclusion jumper. I might have to vote for Llama because I don't believe his day 0 antics were as innocent as he would like them to appear. I feel like he was trying to get something across to someone. I did like Aces post on SVS, its such a small thing but I understand what he's talking about.

Now that I have wasted another 5 mins staring at this post I think I will just vote Llama. I have this nagging feeling he can't be trusted this game. He's up to something.

Of thellama73 voters, Black Rock feels the most genuine to me. However, for the first time, I just had a lengthy Mafia experience with her in HSK, and I got to admire her manipulative skill from a front row seat.

++++

Long Con:

Unlike the other llama voters, LC was aware and kept making it clear that he was sure Magenta would stopthe lynch. Now that awareness could be construed as an attempt to be preemptively apologetic about his vote. He had already voted blindfaeth prior, so that fact leads me to suspect that was not the case, however.

++++

That's why people said they voted llama. I am still going over in my head which reasons I believe and which ones don't pass the smell test.

I should have known the hype was exaggerated :P


First, let me start by asking why are you focusing on the llama voters? Aren't you a civ? Granted, we don't know it, but you do. So there shouldn't be a difference between your voters or him for that matter. This makes me think you're trying to focus on the llama voters because it's easy to make them look bad. You of all people should think the votes for llama mean nothing if you're a civ too. Were people trying to save you and therefore voted for him?



As for me, I agreed with DH's analysis regarding llama's lack of replies to logical fallacies and jumping to conclusions. As for the lie, what can I say? It seemed like a blatant lie. It seemed fake and not genuine. I was wrong. Everything I've said was what I felt, not science. Just like the "big chance". It was my subjective point of view. I thought you teach your students not to say that what they're saying is their opinion when it's obvious


linki: Rude

[Marmot]

A little over 4 hours until the lynch deadline, and still 17 players left to vote.

I anticipate another wild and hectic lynch.

Linki: Yeah, you're probably right FZ. I tease.

[FZ.]

First, let me start by asking why are you focusing on the llama voters? Aren't you a civ? Granted, we don't know it, but you do. So there shouldn't be a difference between your voters or him for that matter. This makes me think you're trying to focus on the llama voters because it's easy to make them look bad. You of all people should think the votes for llama mean nothing if you're a civ too. Were people trying to save you and therefore voted for him?



As for me, I agreed with DH's analysis regarding llama's lack of replies to logical fallacies and jumping to conclusions. As for the lie, what can I say? It seemed like a blatant lie. It seemed fake and not genuine. I was wrong. Everything I've said was what I felt, not science. Just like the "big chance". It was my subjective point of view. I thought you teach your students not to say that what they're saying is their opinion when it's obvious


linki: Rude

The underlined should be:
So there shouldn't be a difference between your voters or his

[FZ.]

A little over 4 hours until the lynch deadline, and still 17 players left to vote.

I anticipate another wild and hectic lynch.

Linki: Yeah, you're probably right FZ. I tease.

What happened to your suspicion of Epi?

[Marmot]

A little over 4 hours until the lynch deadline, and still 17 players left to vote.

I anticipate another wild and hectic lynch.

Linki: Yeah, you're probably right FZ. I tease.

What happened to your suspicion of Epi?

I feel better about Epignosis today; I don't know why.

Do you think I am wrong?

[timmer]

Seems like normal Rabbit to me. Throughout the day I have been some catch up. I was very far behind. I'm hoping to have some time tonight to go over things and see how I feel about people. I have no solid suspicions yet.

I'm not sure. His post re: LC feel genuine, but his BF posts don't. Could we have a curser AND a case-forcer, or whatever you call it? Either way, if that's what's going on, rabbit won't likely be allowed to hint that we're right, so it just means I am choosing to listen to him more regarding LC atm. And in terms of LC, his play style seems to have shifted from the one I remember, he's kind of laid back and very helpful seeming lately, but I don't know how to read that yet. Rabbit clearly thinks it's a sign of LC being bad.

[Bullzeye]

People who voted thellama73:

Thanks for doing my work for me there. So where in that is "OH MY GOD HE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT MONKEEEEEEYYYYYYYYS!" as someone's reason for voting?

Bullzeye:

thellama73 put Bullzeye on the defense. llama explained what he was looking for in potential Mafia, and he also cited his recent experience hosting evil Bullz in HSK. Bullzeye's responses were defensive, almost to the point of "How dare you suspect me?" He admitted this much. Bullzeye voted for llama because llama suspected him.

Thats a huge simplification. I voted Llama because of the contrived nature of his Freudian witchcraft pseudopsychology accusation and the fact that BF was so invested in keeping him alive.

Also, for those like keeping up with such things, I am almost sure that Bullzeye has used more adverbs than anybody else. His latest penultimate post alone was a doozy.

What do you have against adverbs? I don't deliberately use them. I don't type posts and consciously think "right, time for a pronoun now". I say words as they come into my head and put them into a logical structure so that a person with a reasonable grasp of English might make some sense of the message I wish to convey.

I kinda have the feels that BF/Bullz can be civ/civ. I am not seeing anything alarming from BF, and Bullz seems pretty sincere. Having just seen baddie rage from him in HSK, this looks different to me, this feels more indignant. Less angry. More civ. Like everything else, God knows I could be wrong

I don't know, he sounds angry to (at) me.

I'm not angry. Certainly not at you. You'll know when I'm angry. I turn green and become very large, then start destroying everything in the surrounding area. Well, I don't. But I may as well. I just think your accusation is poor and would only make sense if I were an idiot.

First, let me start by asking why are you focusing on the llama voters? Aren't you a civ? Granted, we don't know it, but you do. So there shouldn't be a difference between your voters or him for that matter. This makes me think you're trying to focus on the llama voters because it's easy to make them look bad. You of all people should think the votes for llama mean nothing if you're a civ too. Were people trying to save you and therefore voted for him?

This is a fair point. It'd be a better point if all the baddies had btsc and we were looking at a clear save attempt, but it's still a good point.

[timmer]

@Epig, that's an impressive amount of breakdown, my man, but I think FZ's got a valid question to you.

If YOU are civ, and have the unique vantage point of knowing that virtually EVERY vote in the Day 1 lynch was spread between two civs, what purpose is there in doing a detailed examination of one side of the lynch versus the other? Is it because highlighting the people who voted you would look too NO U-y or something?

What if the baddies aren't even spread out evenly, and somehow more of them ended up voting you?

Or are you bad, and figured that by doing something as obviously one-sided as looking only at th llama voters, that we would assume you can't be bad, because that would paint an obvious target on you? Like, it's a WIFOM move?

As it is, I'm basing my vote for today on my own hunches. And, in fact I'm voting bass for now. He came back in and didn't even try to offer up a response to my idea about him. I may change it to bullz if bass manages a decent response.

votes bass

[timmer]

Interesting to note that Roxy has voted for Epig.

[DharmaHelper]

DH was annoyed. He also expressed dissatisfaction with llama not refuting speculation. In a later post, DH said he would pull some quotes after his reread, but he did not do this. He spent the rest of the time making fun of me.

Well, that's certainly a well put lie.

I pulled a quote, as I promised I would. I didn't pull every single quote, but I didn't need to.

[FZ.]

A little over 4 hours until the lynch deadline, and still 17 players left to vote.

I anticipate another wild and hectic lynch.

Linki: Yeah, you're probably right FZ. I tease.

What happened to your suspicion of Epi?

I feel better about Epignosis today; I don't know why.

Do you think I am wrong?

Don't know. I trusted him more last day than this one. His llama voters analysis makes me wonder

[DharmaHelper]

Also, I've been trying to catch up but I'll probably drop that and just focus on the near present in terms of game discussion.

[FZ.]

Have any of these people posted today?

BirdwithTeeth
AceofSpaces
ika
Spacedaisy
reywaS
Made
Soneji

I think Sonjei made one post. Don't remember the rest

[Long Con]

Pretty sure Epig has made it reasonably clear why we would look at Llama voters. It's mathematically more likely to find a baddie, because none of those people are Detectives.

I didn't miss it TH, it's Game of Thrones time.

Rabbit vs. LC feels like civ vs. civ to me. Where are you looking for this lynch, LC?

I'm most suspicious of Bass right now.

I agree that options on day one suck most the time. I think it might be worth looking at the people who avoided the two top vote getters. I would almost bet one out of the six are bad. I'm not counting timmer because he wasn't caught up.

This statement gave me a ping, it's casting a broad suspicion across six people while not directly going after any of them. This is the kind of thing that pushes people to follow its lead and make accusations, which Bass could then follow along with if it seems like it could catch on. Also, at 23 posts, he's flying under the radar quite a bit.

Sorry that yoou feell cheated because I havvnt been posting a ton. Let me ask you something do you think theres a good chance a baddie could be among those six people? I have seen people on mafia teams do that almost every game.

Sure, there's probably a baddie, maybe two among those six people. And so the rest of the baddies are among the rest of the people. Maybe a couple are in the Llama voters. Do you think Epig voters are a baddie-free group?

So, saying there's probably a baddie in a group of six is just not a really pertinent piece of information, especially when it's the cornerstone of your biggest opinion put forth in this game.

[rabbit8]

Pretty sure Epig has made it reasonably clear why we would look at Llama voters. It's mathematically more likely to find a baddie, because none of those people are Detectives.

I didn't miss it TH, it's Game of Thrones time.

Rabbit vs. LC feels like civ vs. civ to me. Where are you looking for this lynch, LC?

I'm most suspicious of Bass right now.

I agree that options on day one suck most the time. I think it might be worth looking at the people who avoided the two top vote getters. I would almost bet one out of the six are bad. I'm not counting timmer because he wasn't caught up.

This statement gave me a ping, it's casting a broad suspicion across six people while not directly going after any of them. This is the kind of thing that pushes people to follow its lead and make accusations, which Bass could then follow along with if it seems like it could catch on. Also, at 23 posts, he's flying under the radar quite a bit.

Sorry that yoou feell cheated because I havvnt been posting a ton. Let me ask you something do you think theres a good chance a baddie could be among those six people? I have seen people on mafia teams do that almost every game.

Sure, there's probably a baddie, maybe two among those six people. And so the rest of the baddies are among the rest of the people. Maybe a couple are in the Llama voters. Do you think Epig voters are a baddie-free group?

So, saying there's probably a baddie in a group of six is just not a really pertinent piece of information, especially when it's the cornerstone of your biggest opinion put forth in this game.

Way to dismiss a starting point to finding baddies.

[Long Con]

Pretty sure Epig has made it reasonably clear why we would look at Llama voters. It's mathematically more likely to find a baddie, because none of those people are Detectives.

I didn't miss it TH, it's Game of Thrones time.

Rabbit vs. LC feels like civ vs. civ to me. Where are you looking for this lynch, LC?

I'm most suspicious of Bass right now.

I agree that options on day one suck most the time. I think it might be worth looking at the people who avoided the two top vote getters. I would almost bet one out of the six are bad. I'm not counting timmer because he wasn't caught up.

This statement gave me a ping, it's casting a broad suspicion across six people while not directly going after any of them. This is the kind of thing that pushes people to follow its lead and make accusations, which Bass could then follow along with if it seems like it could catch on. Also, at 23 posts, he's flying under the radar quite a bit.

Sorry that yoou feell cheated because I havvnt been posting a ton. Let me ask you something do you think theres a good chance a baddie could be among those six people? I have seen people on mafia teams do that almost every game.

Sure, there's probably a baddie, maybe two among those six people. And so the rest of the baddies are among the rest of the people. Maybe a couple are in the Llama voters. Do you think Epig voters are a baddie-free group?

So, saying there's probably a baddie in a group of six is just not a really pertinent piece of information, especially when it's the cornerstone of your biggest opinion put forth in this game.

Way to dismiss a starting point to finding baddies.

Feel free to use to to find baddies. I'm not your boss.

[rabbit8]

Oh, I will, I will.

Why you want to make it seem like a bad idea is .............

[Epignosis]

First, let me start by asking why are you focusing on the llama voters? Aren't you a civ? Granted, we don't know it, but you do. So there shouldn't be a difference between your voters or him for that matter. This makes me think you're trying to focus on the llama voters because it's easy to make them look bad. You of all people should think the votes for llama mean nothing if you're a civ too. Were people trying to save you and therefore voted for him?

There shouldn't be a difference between the people who voted for me and the people who voted for llama? Really? I have an additional piece of data that holds true for llama voters but not for people who voted for me.

As for me, I agreed with DH's analysis regarding llama's lack of replies to logical fallacies and jumping to conclusions. As for the lie, what can I say? It seemed like a blatant lie. It seemed fake and not genuine. I was wrong. Everything I've said was what I felt, not science. Just like the "big chance". It was my subjective point of view. I thought you teach your students not to say that what they're saying is their opinion when it's obvious

llama is a much better liar than that.

Should I have left you out of my analysis?

DH was annoyed. He also expressed dissatisfaction with llama not refuting speculation. In a later post, DH said he would pull some quotes after his reread, but he did not do this. He spent the rest of the time making fun of me.

Well, that's certainly a well put lie.

I pulled a quote, as I promised I would. I didn't pull every single quote, but I didn't need to.

If you said you would pull quotes (plural), and you claimed you pulled a quote (singular), then what I said was not a lie.

Thanks for doing my work for me there. So where in that is "OH MY GOD HE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT MONKEEEEEEYYYYYYYYS!" as someone's reason for voting?

I never said that anyone voted llama for that reason. I said that my reasoning was better than that one (i.e., better than people examining Day 0 jokes).

Bullzeye:

thellama73 put Bullzeye on the defense. llama explained what he was looking for in potential Mafia, and he also cited his recent experience hosting evil Bullz in HSK. Bullzeye's responses were defensive, almost to the point of "How dare you suspect me?" He admitted this much. Bullzeye voted for llama because llama suspected him.

Thats a huge simplification. I voted Llama because of the contrived nature of his Freudian witchcraft pseudopsychology accusation and the fact that BF was so invested in keeping him alive.

But his accusation wasn't contrived and it wasn't witchcraft. Do you mean to tell me that, if thellama73 had not pointed his flashy finger at you, you would have still voted llama?

This is a fair point. It'd be a better point if all the baddies had btsc and we were looking at a clear save attempt, but it's still a good point.

So question for you: In this setup on Day 1, why would you vote for someone if someone is, as you say, "invested in keeping him alive?"

Also, for those like keeping up with such things, I am almost sure that Bullzeye has used more adverbs than anybody else. His latest penultimate post alone was a doozy.

What do you have against adverbs? I don't deliberately use them. I don't type posts and consciously think "right, time for a pronoun now". I say words as they come into my head and put them into a logical structure so that a person with a reasonable grasp of English might make some sense of the message I wish to convey.

I know you don't deliberately use them. That's kind of the point.

Addendum: Long Con with the

[Soneji]

If the detectives insist on vengeance, at least let me be lynched so I can defend myself and eventually have everyone proven wrong so I don't have to deal with smug posturing every time I read the thread post-death.

*...votes Bullzeye?*

Well I'd rather not die at all, but knowing how Llama was so sure of his contrived pseudopsychology case on me and the fact I voted for him, plus the fact I have a brain, I feel quite confident in my belief that I'm now a target of my own side. As soon as his role was revealed I told myself I was going down for it. I'm just trying to convince them not to kill me, if they do actually want me dead I'd rather they find reasons to try to lynch me so I can prove them wrong one way or another.

So in this post and a good deal of ones after you just freak out over the possibility of being offed when no one has said anything regarding you being a target. You put on an act of being spiteful for things that only may happen and are entirely self-interested, even going as far as to not help the side you claim to be on.

This is the mother of all preemptive defenses.

LC vs rabbit seems too....rogger rabbit.
rabbit is acting weird, though. Upon reading him go against LC, he seemed like he was under some kind of curse or kinda faking something, and this is coming from someone who usually thinks rabbit is a civvie. Yeah, i pretty much always thinks he is civvie, even if he is baddie. but i dont know, something seemed off in his posts.

but this is just an impression after a very fast read of the last 3 pages. beare with me, but ive been super busy today (election day here in BA) and my brother is coming to visit me tomorrow. add that to work and university and boyfriend and you got a picture. i will be reading and contributing as much as i can, but this is not gonna be a week with much free time for me. at least until next monday, cause first my brother comes, then my grandma turns 90 and we both travel to our natal city, so all in all is an insane week.

i will do my best to remain updated.

having said so, gotta go to sleep now, its super late, but will be back tomorrow to read and reread players that caught my attention. mainly epi and bullz, but also roxy, rabbit, lc and timmer. im not saying im necesarily suspicion of all of them, but some things said in the last pages caught my attention and i need to reread, go back, read again, and make my conclusions.

now to sleep its late

This seems an awfully long post for only slightly defending one person at the beginning then giving a long-winded explanation for not contributing more while posting names of people just to seem as if you might contribute more in the future.

Also, I know Soneji is new to our ways & polls. But where he plays, unvoting is the norm. So not sure why he would think it was OK to not so something of the sort here. At least announce his intentions.

I just didn't generally think much of it at the time. With my SVS vote going nowhere and it being late in the phase, my vote had more power choosing between Epig and Llama based on who I had more suspicion on. I don't see what difference it would have made to say who I was voting for, with how close they were. Who would it have influenced that already didn't vote themselves, to change off/switch? Unvoting/changing votes is the norm on NF yes but when we vote its done in a post. Announcing my vote change in that late stage didn't really even cross my mind given the oddity of the poll throwing me off.

-Llama talks in a manner that speaks of self-interest and nonchalance, traits that are more associated with mafia who have more knowledge and vested interest in their individual performance over that of a townie who should care more about the group.

I get that Soneji isn't from around here, but this is a strange thing to say given this setup. How do the Mafia here have more knowledge?

I had been under the impression that the mafia in some way knew each others identities but just couldn't talk to each other until the Blacksmith used her ability on them. Basically just delayed team chat between the mafia. It just seems rather unfathomable to me that mafia do not know each others identities, the whole basis of this game is founded upon town having only knowledge of their own roles mostly while mafia knows who they all are. Then you consider that if the mafia faction killer doesn't know who his teammates are he might hit one of them. As a player and as a host it just doesn't make sense in my mind.

What about you?

With Soneji I didn't like that he voted for Llama without posting about his vote, even though he was here posting at the time.

I am rather unused to this whole voting via poll thing and didn't think much of voting for Llama without saying something in-thread about changing my vote as I had already explained my suspicion on him. It was between two wagons at that point and I had given my thoughts on both Epig and Llama.

Okay, so what are your thoughts for today?

I am still suspicious of SVS like I was yesterday. Bullzeye and Sophie for the things I quoted above. Dharma also raised some flags with how I never really saw anything all that contributive from her while shes doing a fair deal of joking/mocking, that post where she mocked Epig's use of math is what set off that flag the most.

[DharmaHelper]

Dharma also raised some flags with how I never really saw anything all that contributive from her while shes doing a fair deal of joking/mocking, that post where she mocked Epig's use of math is what set off that flag the most.

You mean he.

[FZ.]

Epig, I forgot about the detective votes. Do we know for sure that they know who the others are?

As for leaving me out of the analysis, no you shouldn't have. You just should have done a good one


I agree with Sonjey on Sophie. I've said it today as well. Might put my vote there

[S~V~S]

DH was annoyed. He also expressed dissatisfaction with llama not refuting speculation. In a later post, DH said he would pull some quotes after his reread, but he did not do this. He spent the rest of the time making fun of me.

Well, that's certainly a well put lie.

I pulled a quote, as I promised I would. I didn't pull every single quote, but I didn't need to.

DH, who was this a quote from? On phone and I can't find it. Thanks

Linki, Magenta can gain BTS with them, so they would seem to have BTS

[Bass_the_Clever]

Pretty sure Epig has made it reasonably clear why we would look at Llama voters. It's mathematically more likely to find a baddie, because none of those people are Detectives.

I didn't miss it TH, it's Game of Thrones time.

Rabbit vs. LC feels like civ vs. civ to me. Where are you looking for this lynch, LC?

I'm most suspicious of Bass right now.

I agree that options on day one suck most the time. I think it might be worth looking at the people who avoided the two top vote getters. I would almost bet one out of the six are bad. I'm not counting timmer because he wasn't caught up.

This statement gave me a ping, it's casting a broad suspicion across six people while not directly going after any of them. This is the kind of thing that pushes people to follow its lead and make accusations, which Bass could then follow along with if it seems like it could catch on. Also, at 23 posts, he's flying under the radar quite a bit.

Sorry that yoou feell cheated because I havvnt been posting a ton. Let me ask you something do you think theres a good chance a baddie could be among those six people? I have seen people on mafia teams do that almost every game.

Sure, there's probably a baddie, maybe two among those six people. And so the rest of the baddies are among the rest of the people. Maybe a couple are in the Llama voters. Do you think Epig voters are a baddie-free group?

So, saying there's probably a baddie in a group of six is just not a really pertinent piece of information, especially when it's the cornerstone of your biggest opinion put forth in this game.

Yeah it's possible there are some cheating baddies among the epi voters. All I was doing was throwing an idea out there that no one else said.

[S~V~S]

Ebwop, No wait, I think that was secret speculation about magentas role?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Timmer are you reading the thread or are you cheating and just skimming. I don't understand why you voted for me I feel like you gave a half ass excuse and never asked me any questions about anything.

[Marmot]

PLAYER POSTS

AceofSpaces
Bass_the_Clever
birdwithteeth11
Black Rock
blindfaeth
Bullzeye
DFaraday - DEAD
DharmaHelper
Epignosis
fingersplints - DEAD
FZ.
ika
Long Con
Made
Metalmarsh89
rabbit8
reywaS
Roxy
Soneji
Sophie
Spacedaisy
S~V~S
thellama73 - DEAD
Turnip Head
timmer Elohcin

Players who have not posted since Day 1.

birdwithteeth11 - Has not posted since Day 1 (Friday).
ika - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Thursday).
Made - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Friday).
rewyaS - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Friday).
Roxy - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Friday).
Spacedaisy - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Thursday).

Other players who have not posted today.

AceofSpaces - Has not posted since Night 1 (Saturday).




Due to so many players not posting today, (and not even during Night 1 for that matter), my guess is that the map BTSC, or some other map-related function, may shut down in-thread chatter. 6 players haven't posted since Night 1 began, which I believe is when our movements were due by.

Then there is Aces who did post on Night 1.

[Marmot]

And since there are 6 players who haven't posted, that could account for 3 pairs of BTSC.

[Epignosis]

DH was annoyed. He also expressed dissatisfaction with llama not refuting speculation. In a later post, DH said he would pull some quotes after his reread, but he did not do this. He spent the rest of the time making fun of me.

Well, that's certainly a well put lie.

I pulled a quote, as I promised I would. I didn't pull every single quote, but I didn't need to.

DH, who was this a quote from? On phone and I can't find it. Thanks

Linki, Magenta can gain BTS with them, so they would seem to have BTS

It was from me.

[S~V~S]

PLAYER POSTS

AceofSpaces
Bass_the_Clever
birdwithteeth11
Black Rock
blindfaeth
Bullzeye
DFaraday - DEAD
DharmaHelper
Epignosis
fingersplints - DEAD
FZ.
ika
Long Con
Made
Metalmarsh89
rabbit8
reywaS
Roxy
Soneji
Sophie
Spacedaisy
S~V~S
thellama73 - DEAD
Turnip Head
timmer Elohcin

Players who have not posted since Day 1.

birdwithteeth11 - Has not posted since Day 1 (Friday).
ika - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Thursday).
Made - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Friday).
rewyaS - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Friday).
Roxy - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Friday).
Spacedaisy - Also has not posted since Day 1 (Thursday).

Other players who have not posted today.

AceofSpaces - Has not posted since Night 1 (Saturday).




Due to so many players not posting today, (and not even during Night 1 for that matter), my guess is that the map BTSC, or some other map-related function, may shut down in-thread chatter. 6 players haven't posted since Night 1 began, which I believe is when our movements were due by.

Then there is Aces who did post on Night 1.

Well, Roxy appears to be silencedsilenced. And people posted in map games I played in the past.

[S~V~S]

Lol phone post FTL ha ha

[Marmot]

You're probably right SVS. That just seems like a very large number of players to not post for 3 or more actual days. Spacedaisy was very active up until her activity cut off. I know Roxy likes to post too (and certainly has through other means).

With the exception of Sawyer, all of these players have logged in either today or yesterday.

[DharmaHelper]

DH was annoyed. He also expressed dissatisfaction with llama not refuting speculation. In a later post, DH said he would pull some quotes after his reread, but he did not do this. He spent the rest of the time making fun of me.

Well, that's certainly a well put lie.

I pulled a quote, as I promised I would. I didn't pull every single quote, but I didn't need to.

DH, who was this a quote from? On phone and I can't find it. Thanks

Linki, Magenta can gain BTS with them, so they would seem to have BTS

Epi, sorry. Too busy to hit the quote button so I just copy/pasted.

[timmer]

Timmer are you reading the thread or are you cheating and just skimming. I don't understand why you voted for me I feel like you gave a half ass excuse and never asked me any questions about anything.

I explained precisely why I voted for you. I'm simply waiting for you to comment on it. Which you now have. Frankly, this came across as an annoyed baddie who can't believe he took a vote for something unanticipated. My vote stays. Call it half assed if you think that's the way to change my mind.

[FZ.]

I need to go to sleep in a few minutes. At this point, it's between Sophie and Bass for me. I don't know if I agree with you Timmer, regarding Bass' response

What do people think about Sophie?

[blindfaeth]

I like the recent posts from epi and feel a lot better about him. Epi, I know you're still digesting your findings, but gut feel-which of the llama voters are you not trusting?

FZ brought up a decent point but I felt OK with epis response. I know, I know, pigs are flying