The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[Long Con]

You can't make this shit up. Seriously. My brother had a car accident, he is OK, in the hospital for observation, but his car is totalled. My Dad & other brother are already there, but I gotta go. Sorry LC, totally not dissing you I will try to be back later, but not sure. I am gonna vote me for now becasue everything is just a fail.

Ladies and gentlemen, the expected ruse...

Just kidding, that sucks.

[Mister Rearranger]

Cool!
@HOST does the story mean that other than llama, no one tried to kill tonight?

The post was just written up from 1 character's perspective.

Everyone's mileage may vary...

Sorry to hear that, SVS!

[Long Con]

Ok, we still have to keep playing even though S~V~S had to go for a bit.

Ok, I dig that. Let me just play Devil's Advocate here: What if Timmer was just hoping he was wrong?

I guess it's possible, but I don't have any reason to think that, do you? The only New Rogue role that I think would make sense for Timmer to do this as is Plunder. Because otherwise, if Timmer is right about Bass, then Plunder potentially kills Timmer as revenge. High chance of backfiring.

Are you giving DH and I the same level of trust? I know he's dead, but the question stands.

[Long Con]

Ok, so it's not Grodd that is controlling people's minds. It it the Secret Role, who I now expose as... The Top! dun dun dunnnnn.....

I solved Grodd's role:

Gorilla Grodd (????????) – He wants Keystone and Central City all for himself and his gorilla empire. He is the Serial Killer and is immune to all mind control. Because of Grodd’s telepathic power, he will know where every player is and what they’re up to during the game.

So he's immune to mind control, but he doesn't control others. Looks like he gets a lot of map awareness, not sure what information is gained through knowing "what players are up to".

The Super Secret role (still some words missing):

The Top – He can spin…really fast. ~~~~~ ~~~~s targeted at him will be redirected to a random player. His spinning a~~~~~~es s~~e~~~ gave him the power to mind control as well. Every night, he can choose a player to act as he wishes during the next day.

So... the person Black Rock is looking for is The Top, aka the Super Secret Role, and not Grodd.

I wonder if Grodd's serial killer ability is map based? He knows where everyone is, and can come and hunt them down, maybe?

Anyways, disclaimer, any and all of my role solutions could be wrong, so it would be sensible for someone else to cross-check and verify my solutions to be more sure.

^Here is what I remember. It was Long Con who suggested Grodd could be a map-based killer.

You connected a lot of dots from that though

That's exactly what I was getting at. I remember thinking that Grodd would need a higher movement rate to map-based kill, but I didn't even say it. For Timmer to assume I'm not Grodd just because I move one square at a time is a stretch.

[Long Con]

BR, how did your mind control work again?

I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, and vote for Bullzeye. This happened on Day 3. Bullzeye was NK'd on Night 4, and probably one of them coming from the very team that forced me to make a case on him.

So whoever mind-controlled me wanted Bullzeye dead.

What about you saying "Timmer" instead of any other pronoun?

Yes, that was part of it, but not the part I was most interested in looking at.

Why would The Top want Bullzeye dead? And that's assuming that Blacksmith has found both The Top and Plunder, successfully picking a New Rogue (arguably the best two) on two out of the first three nights.

[Long Con]

Did the night ending early make us unable to move, or did the host just forget to send out movement PMs? I assume the former.

[Black Rock]

So our internet is down again. I'm using internet from LC's handy dandy phone again. He's going to work which means unless the internet magically comes back I won't be around until this evening. We really do need to switch company's, it's just really hard to get high speed when you live in the rural world.

I would like to take a look back at some things for this lynch. It just might be difficult. I think LC might have made a good point about Soneji a few game days ago so that is one thing I will look at.

[timmer]

That's exactly what I was getting at. I remember thinking that Grodd would need a higher movement rate to map-based kill, but I didn't even say it. For Timmer to assume I'm not Grodd just because I move one square at a time is a stretch.

So you and I thought the exact same thought but I tried to put it to use, and I'm bad for it. You know what, I've never been put under This level of constant scrutiny before, where literally everything I say is spun only in one, negative direction. You guys want me to be bad really badly, but I'm going to have to disappoint you. But this constant gang-up is exhausting and I'm sorry to say I'm done. Go ahead and vote me out. You'll see you were wrong at game's end. Between curse where people have to say my name and other curses whet people can't make cases on me, someone out there kind of made this personal and I'm done with it.

[Black Rock]

Did the night ending early make us unable to move, or did the host just forget to send out movement PMs? I assume the former.

I PM'd the host to ask.

That's exactly what I was getting at. I remember thinking that Grodd would need a higher movement rate to map-based kill, but I didn't even say it. For Timmer to assume I'm not Grodd just because I move one square at a time is a stretch.

So you and I thought the exact same thought but I tried to put it to use, and I'm bad for it. You know what, I've never been put under This level of constant scrutiny before, where literally everything I say is spun only in one, negative direction. You guys want me to be bad really badly, but I'm going to have to disappoint you. But this constant gang-up is exhausting and I'm sorry to say I'm done. Go ahead and vote me out. You'll see you were wrong at game's end. Between curse where people have to say my name and other curses whet people can't make cases on me, someone out there kind of made this personal and I'm done with it.

But I didn't even mention you in my latest post.

[Long Con]

That's exactly what I was getting at. I remember thinking that Grodd would need a higher movement rate to map-based kill, but I didn't even say it. For Timmer to assume I'm not Grodd just because I move one square at a time is a stretch.

So you and I thought the exact same thought but I tried to put it to use, and I'm bad for it. You know what, I've never been put under This level of constant scrutiny before, where literally everything I say is spun only in one, negative direction. You guys want me to be bad really badly, but I'm going to have to disappoint you. But this constant gang-up is exhausting and I'm sorry to say I'm done. Go ahead and vote me out. You'll see you were wrong at game's end. Between curse where people have to say my name and other curses whet people can't make cases on me, someone out there kind of made this personal and I'm done with it.

I didn't say it was suspicious, I said it was a stretch. I don't think it's sound logic. It's not logical to assume I'm not Grodd simply because my movement rate is purportedly 1.

I mean... I'm not Grodd, but only Grodd and I know that for sure.

[Marmot]

We don't need martyrs.

[Marmot]

BR, how did your mind control work again?

I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, and vote for Bullzeye. This happened on Day 3. Bullzeye was NK'd on Night 4, and probably one of them coming from the very team that forced me to make a case on him.

So whoever mind-controlled me wanted Bullzeye dead.

What about you saying "Timmer" instead of any other pronoun?

Yes, that was part of it, but not the part I was most interested in looking at.

Why would The Top want Bullzeye dead? And that's assuming that Blacksmith has found both The Top and Plunder, successfully picking a New Rogue (arguably the best two) on two out of the first three nights.

That's why I liked the theory from MP that if the New Rogues find each other on the map, that translates to BTSC. It's already tough enough that one player has to find the rest.

[Draconus]

I sincerely hope that your family's lucky streak doesn't continue down this path, SVS. Sorry to hear about everything going on, but glad to hear that he is okay!
Wow. 2 self votes already. What kind of baddie team strategy is this?
But seriously, Before everything exploded around MP the previous day, I had intended to keep my vote on a DREAMY non-talkative player. So I'll place my vote there for now and create yet another 3-way tie. I could make a habit out of this

[Draconus]

Also just remembered that we have another day to vote, so things could definitely change.
I want to hear from more people on the current SVS - Timmer situation llama because I don't want to let a potential New Rogue to get away in a cloud of pity vapors

[FZ.]

SVS, this really isn't your week. I'm so sorry to hear about your brother, but thank god he's all right. Like others before me, I hope the bad streak stops and only good for you from now on.

That's exactly what I was getting at. I remember thinking that Grodd would need a higher movement rate to map-based kill, but I didn't even say it. For Timmer to assume I'm not Grodd just because I move one square at a time is a stretch.

So you and I thought the exact same thought but I tried to put it to use, and I'm bad for it. You know what, I've never been put under This level of constant scrutiny before, where literally everything I say is spun only in one, negative direction. You guys want me to be bad really badly, but I'm going to have to disappoint you. But this constant gang-up is exhausting and I'm sorry to say I'm done. Go ahead and vote me out. You'll see you were wrong at game's end. Between curse where people have to say my name and other curses whet people can't make cases on me, someone out there kind of made this personal and I'm done with it.

I felt the same way on death note mafia. So much so, that out of my frustration I let too much slip out, and I ended up getting NK not long after. Don't let it get to you. If you're really not on the bad side, you just get to tell everyone later how stupid they were. Besides, I don't see that many votes going on you.

Now, who do you think could be trying to frame you? You keep going back and forth on SVS. What's your current assessment of her?

Any idea where Bass disappeared to?
There was someone who said Dream seemed okay to them. Anyone remember who that was?

[Turnip Head]

Ok, we still have to keep playing even though S~V~S had to go for a bit.

Ok, I dig that. Let me just play Devil's Advocate here: What if Timmer was just hoping he was wrong?

I guess it's possible, but I don't have any reason to think that, do you? The only New Rogue role that I think would make sense for Timmer to do this as is Plunder. Because otherwise, if Timmer is right about Bass, then Plunder potentially kills Timmer as revenge. High chance of backfiring.

Are you giving DH and I the same level of trust? I know he's dead, but the question stands.

For the most part yes. I think DH would have gone with the Bass vote regardless, I felt there was some residual feelings from Death Note in his play here. And you went after Bass for different reasons than Timmer did so I didn't feel the same about it, but overall I've been giving you the BOTD because I've liked the way you've approached the game.

Timmer, I think you should approach the game as if no one is suspicious of you. What are your thoughts today, where are you looking?

I want DREAM to come back. His one content-y post that I remember showed promise if he's indeed looking for baddies, but the drop-off since then has me concerned that that post was an illusion and he was just trying to blend in. Not enough to go on, DREAM come back!

I also still want to know what SVS was seeing re: Sophie from the last lynch.

[Marmot]

I'll vote DREAM if it would help him/her come in and post.

[DREAM]

I'm so sorry about my absence. It's not an excuse but the truth is I forgot about mafia... In my defense this is my first game in. Couple of years.. Anyhow, I'm sorry I missed the vote I thought I would have time to catch up and vote but in Monday I was in court all day couldn't have my phone while I was working anyhooanyhoo.

CuriousCurious... What's up with thethe votePhone is trippint. I promise I'll be back onotonight. Setting N alarm. EtfWTF! htipping . Phkne

[Marmot]

Welcome DREAM. I look forward to hearing from you tonight then.

[Turnip Head]

I'm so sorry about my absence. It's not an excuse but the truth is I forgot about mafia... In my defense this is my first game in. Couple of years.. Anyhow, I'm sorry I missed the vote I thought I would have time to catch up and vote but in Monday I was in court all day couldn't have my phone while I was working anyhooanyhoo.

CuriousCurious... What's up with thethe votePhone is trippint. I promise I'll be back onotonight. Setting N alarm. EtfWTF! htipping . Phkne

See ya soon DREAM.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I'm starting to think timmer might not be a new rouge.

[Black Rock]

I vote for sonny-gee for now.

[Turnip Head]

I'm starting to think timmer might not be a new rouge.

Who are you looking at for today?

[Marmot]

Where is everybody? Is this one of those days that's going to go nuts in the final few hours?

[Turnip Head]

Looks like it.

[timmer]

Okay, so I'm looking at today like this. We don't know how many New Rogues are left, but we do know that unless a series of people have been lying profusely, The Top is still alive.

So who is The Top? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the list of people claiming to have been mind controlled so far is rabbit, MM and BR? I feel like I've missed one. Rabbit had to vote for BF, BR had to push Roxy/Aces and couldn't go against me, and MM had to put my name in everything. Is that all correct?

So first off, we can rule out the absent players, and those who just subbed in. Honestly, if someone is deliberately never posting but sending in night actions, I quit mafia, that's just weak - so I personally rule out Soniji, Devin, Dreams here. I also rule out myself, though I know some of you may not. We can rule out llama as well.

So that leaves Bass 2, Black Rock, FZ, Long Con, MM, rabbit, Sophie, Daisy, SVS, TH.

Making someone say "Timmer" is not really Sophie's style, so I doubt it's her. Bass 2.0 wouldn't have made Black Rock go after Roxy/Aces as he has been solidly in support of Roxy, so it wouldn't be him. I don't really know FZ, so I'll need others to fill in an opinion there. TH has been supportive of me all game, so I doubt this is a TH thing. I would HOPE this hasn't been rabbit's doing; he's kind of not around and has admitted he doesn't have time for the game. To not post but to send in night actions such as these wouldn't be something he did, I think. And I still think Daisy's posts around when she thought she was going to be lynched point to her being an indy of some kind.

So I'm left with Black Rock, Long Con, MM, SVS. For reasons I can't say, I personally rule out SVS from the list. I don't know her role or anything that specific, but I do not think SVS is the one laying mind controls on. She could be bad, but not The Top, UNLESS there is a mind control I'm missing... have I missed one?

Which drops me to LC, BR and MM.

For me, it comes down to... who self-targeted versus is this LC's doing? I'm going to declare that I think it is MM. BR's stated mind control was subtle and very strategic; force her to concentrate on one set of suspicions and not another. It cries out solid manipulation. Rabbit's was more simple, but still very strategic; make a case against bf. But what was MM's? Say "Timmer" all over every post. There is nothing strategic about it, at all. It's a gag act, a silly thing to annoy people and generate some chuckles.

The "say Timmer" mind control does not fit the other two. Thus, I can only come to the conclusion that that one is false.

I'm voting MM today. Things that will potentially change my mind; if someone mentions a curse I forgot that changes the tilt of my case, or if someone can show how FZ could have done all of this, mores than MM's doing it.

[Spacedaisy]

I'll toss a vote on Dreamy, just as a welcome to her for joining us here.

Seriously awesome to see you Dream, but i think I have my reservations about how that last lynch went down and I am comfortable pursuing a lynch on you.

Also, I am not surprised by the flip of Alex's role, but frankly I don't care. He has a shit ton of work to do with his current class, and one less mafia game is a good thing.

I only voted to kill you because I love you. And I have to live with you, so you know, I'd rather you stay sane...

[DREAM]

During the last vote I didn't feel confident in a vote for SVS but this time around I could vote for her with more confidence. TBH, I'd feel like a total asshole voting her for obvious reasons, but the more time I spend reading LC's arguments the more I see where he's coming from and it was this post stuck out the most to me. The part about Sophie pinged me and I think that is because I had never taken my eye off of her since i started getting that vibe that I had pointed out earlier. Then the part where she tells LC that he's wrong, but nothing telling him how or why. Lastly, I can't tell if the 3d paragraph is saying that TH and Timmer are a certain group or what but it just didn't sit well with me. If I had to vote, like, right now, right now it would be for SVS.

Sorry for the short post, a lot of reading for this and for work, my eyes are killing me and I can't keep all the windows straight. I've got alarms set, so I will be back in time for the vote.

[DREAM]

I'll toss a vote on Dreamy, just as a welcome to her for joining us here.

Seriously awesome to see you Dream, but i think I have my reservations about how that last lynch went down and I am comfortable pursuing a lynch on you.

Also, I am not surprised by the flip of Alex's role, but frankly I don't care. He has a shit ton of work to do with his current class, and one less mafia game is a good thing.

I only voted to kill you because I love you. And I have to live with you, so you know, I'd rather you stay sane...

Thanks for having me, I missed all of my fellow mafiosos....mafia mates? I'll work on that. It's great being back on line with all of y'all.

[Turnip Head]

So who is The Top? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the list of people claiming to have been mind controlled so far is rabbit, MM and BR? I feel like I've missed one. Rabbit had to vote for BF, BR had to push Roxy/Aces and couldn't go against me, and MM had to put my name in everything. Is that all correct?

The one that appears to be missing is Day 5, ie the Day Alex Committed Hara-kiri, but there's no conclusive evidence. It doesn't fit the others though. And you're right, neither does Marshy's

I don't really know how FZ would play that role, tbh I've only seen her baddie game in small doses. Her in-thread behavior doesn't really match up with whatever the Top is trying to accomplish though.

[Turnip Head]

During the last vote I didn't feel confident in a vote for SVS but this time around I could vote for her with more confidence. TBH, I'd feel like a total asshole voting her for obvious reasons, but the more time I spend reading LC's arguments the more I see where he's coming from and it was this post stuck out the most to me. The part about Sophie pinged me and I think that is because I had never taken my eye off of her since i started getting that vibe that I had pointed out earlier. Then the part where she tells LC that he's wrong, but nothing telling him how or why. Lastly, I can't tell if the 3d paragraph is saying that TH and Timmer are a certain group or what but it just didn't sit well with me. If I had to vote, like, right now, right now it would be for SVS.

Sorry for the short post, a lot of reading for this and for work, my eyes are killing me and I can't keep all the windows straight. I've got alarms set, so I will be back in time for the vote.

What do you think of SVS currently voting for herself?

And can you explain what you mean about the Sophie part?

[Marmot]

So who is The Top? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the list of people claiming to have been mind controlled so far is rabbit, MM and BR? I feel like I've missed one. Rabbit had to vote for BF, BR had to push Roxy/Aces and couldn't go against me, and MM had to put my name in everything. Is that all correct?

The one that appears to be missing is Day 5, ie the Day Alex Committed Hara-kiri, but there's no conclusive evidence. It doesn't fit the others though. And you're right, neither does Marshy's

I don't really know how FZ would play that role, tbh I've only seen her baddie game in small doses. Her in-thread behavior doesn't really match up with whatever the Top is trying to accomplish though.

If I was the Top, then sure, I would probably self-target.

But I don't see why you guys are looking for consistency in the Top's mind control tactics. Do you think that the Top will feel the same way on Night 1 as he does on Night 4? Do you expect this player to use the same mind control each night, just switching players? I wouldn't. And MP's mind control result tells me that the Top was probably taking a bit of heat at the time, because of its drastic change in style. It seemed like a desperate attempt to try and give the New Rogues a better reputation for the public, but nobody really bought it. Timmer's early vote for MP, and lack of recognition of the possibility that he could be mind-controlled is what stuck out to me.

And also, I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, in addition to voting for him. I have not said so explicitly, but I've been looking for someone to slip and say so themselves. The fact that timmer did not makes me feel a little better about him, but not much. SVS came close, but I believe her statements were concurrent enough with what I have said in thread.

[S~V~S]

Yeah, I thought that was what you implied. I tend to not pay much attention to the laying traps thing, and just blurt crap out.

Sorry I have been so absent this week, my brothers 3 month old car is toast, he's got crutches (sprain, and knee issues, no breaks) but that's about it. Considering he was hit by a Dodge Ram speeding through a yellow-to-red, it could have been one hell of a lot worse. but barring Armageddon, I would think I will have no problem putting in normal participation levels.

I begin the day with S~V~S in my sights. She is avoiding responding to my posts, and is pretending that she's reading the content, but is clearly not. I'll park a vote there now to get things rolling.

And LC, I read your whole post & your whole case. It was lovely but it was still wrong

My post was a couple of things. It was an explanation of a suspicion and a compliment. It was a promise. It was a defense. At the bottom, it was a humourous observation.

What it was not was a case. I'm VERY interested in how you read this post and say that it's just "wrong", and how you could call it a case.

You didn't read it, you're just paying it lip service. You obviously have something going on besides actually reading the thread completely, but to react so dishonestly is seriously suspicious. You could have said "LC, I've been so busy, I need to go back and really read your post", but you didn't. I was actually not too invested in the idea that you are the Top, but I'm pretty damn sure now that you are bad. Like the lynch of Bass 1.0, behaviour is very revealing, and you are undeniably trying to be deceptive with me.

Here's my post, for the record.

Because I'm acting like a total yutz this game, and people who know better say I'm the baddie? I think I did one good thing this game, I will find out end game (maybe 2) but for the most part, i have sucked. Timmer has been poking at me since he subbed in, LC has been insinuating in my direction (and insinuating LC is bad LC, imo) most of the game, and then MP comes in and says things that he knows will get my Irish up, and basically says, "This is how *I* am interpreting the game. If you don't like it, lynch me". Awesome.

I think you're looking at my suspicion of you in the entirely wrong way. It is nothing but a compliment that I suspect you first of this, I think you're clever enough to put a plan like this in motion, that's all. Between that, and the fact that the "participants" in this plot are all people you are close to as longtime Mafia friends, I think you owe me at least an acknowledgement that it's not unusual that I am looking in your direction.

I also think it was an overreaction to a temporary vote. But I'mma let that slide because you have had a stressful weekend. I promise I never have, and never will, attempt to use your life complications as a Mafia strategy - I swear the timing of it was unrelated.

I just want to address "insinuating in your direction" as well. I'm trying to think of what you mean by that. I can only recall mentioning you once before, when I was suspecting Roxy, Bass 2.0, Aces, and you of some nefarious dealings. Well, it turns out Aces was pretty bad, Roxy and Bass are possibly good, possibly not. I don't think that I was insinuating in your direction, you were just someone who was part of a group of people that had sketchy-looking stuff going on (namely, Roxy's vouch for Aces, Bass' vouches, etc). I'm fine with "insinuating LC is bad LC", whether that's true or not, because I don't think I've been particularly "insinuating" in this game.

OK, this is my opinion of you. Like I said, several times actually, lots of things you have said this game sound like baddie things to say to me, but your tone is not bad. I don't think you are bad, tbh, and kinda have an idea why you might sould as you do to me. I think I read you fairly well, and you have been making tentative stabs at me most of the game until you came out and said it. But, alsa, my opinion of YOU does not make ME bad.

I think Bass theory on his Mom makes a million percent sense, and Timmer trying so hard to prove her bad after her death is really what brought it to a head for me.

We did not get a role reveal on Roxy. I would prefer to have some control over my contribution to the game in this way. I would rather by lynched today than NKed tonight. So then even though I have sucked seriously as a civvie (yes, MP, I said the "C" word), my death will have some value this way. If someone I actually suspect looks to be lynched, I will consider changing my vote that way.

Dude, this is so bullz' shtick. Come on, you know this.

No, it can be anyones schtick. I was incredibly frustrated. Several people I don't think are bad were voting for me, I came back from a 4 hour drive from a hospital in another state to find votes, for silly reasons. I had a hissy fit. You have seen me have worse hissy fits. And sometimes, you know, proving someone else wrong is more important than being proven correct yourself. This was one of those occasions for me. You're wrong, and I don;t want to be NKed and see a bunch of people talking about how bad I obviously was after I am dead, when I actually think I have had a pretty positive effect on the civs in this game

Was this your big case? Let me know if you have anything else. But I am sure you don't cause...

It's wrong.

I am moving the vote to Dreamy. I think her vote was really opportunistic, and the case she is saying is so convincing is pretty much gut, yes, LC?

Again, sorry for the spottiness.

[thellama73]

I completely agree thta DREAM is the one who should die today. I voted.

[DREAM]

How convienent that imI'being votedvfor.. The thing with sophie was that I found her first couple posts to be suspect. I always found svs suspect but now she wants to turn and vote for me.. How you gonna vote yourself when the spotlight is on you then vote me because my post is about you? I understand the first couple votes. Because I was absent but what about those we haven't heard from?? Soneji who was that? I've never seen them on here this game, just saying if you want to vote for me for participation orowhatever, you ought to consider everyone..

SD love not sure why you voted for me besides the fact that a few other people threw a vote my way.

SVS...ive said it from my first post to now... I find you suspect and I think lclmade aa goodargument and your vote on me base on my vote?? Girl, bye I haven't even voted yet, girlWord of the day appears to be band-mf'in-wagon
SVS you need to get your life

[timmer]

Switching my vote to Dreams, because gurl bye, we don't tell others to get a life.

[Draconus]

Yeah... Not cool. Was going to switch my vote. Not anymore.

[DREAM]

Now y'all are just being mean.. Get your life means look alive, get with the program, just saying, get it together....

[DREAM]

Now y'all are just being mean.. Get your life means look alive, get with the program, just saying, get it together....

EbwopEbwop : somethjngsomething tellls meme youyou knewknew exactlyewhat I meant when I saidsaid thtooatthat,

[Long Con]

Your continued total lack of reading posts is really frustrating. You are just posting what you want to post, like you are responding to what you want to have been said. Now I have to break it down, I was really hoping that your latest post would finally change.

OK, this is my opinion of you. Like I said, several times actually, lots of things you have said this game sound like baddie things to say to me, but your tone is not bad. I don't think you are bad, tbh, and kinda have an idea why you might sould as you do to me. I think I read you fairly well, and you have been making tentative stabs at me most of the game until you came out and said it. But, alsa, my opinion of YOU does not make ME bad.

I think Bass theory on his Mom makes a million percent sense, and Timmer trying so hard to prove her bad after her death is really what brought it to a head for me.

Ok. You have been mentioning me here and there all game. It's always "I feel like LC might be bad, but I I also feel like he's not". THAT is "insinuating". You suggest it, but don't commit to it, to see if it catches on with the general public. I asked YOU how exactly I have been "insinuating", and you give a generic response about your read, a glance at an idea of a role you may or may not think I have, another vague accusation of "making stabs", and a bizarre reference to a No U that never happened. WTF?

I asked you how I have been insinuating all game. "Insinuating LC is bad LC", right? You absolutely didn't even try to show how I have been insinuating like you accused me of.

And what was that Bass thing about? Brought WHAT to a head? Why is that sentence there? I don't see how it is related to the rest of the content.

No, it can be anyones schtick. I was incredibly frustrated. Several people I don't think are bad were voting for me, I came back from a 4 hour drive from a hospital in another state to find votes, for silly reasons. I had a hissy fit. You have seen me have worse hissy fits. And sometimes, you know, proving someone else wrong is more important than being proven correct yourself. This was one of those occasions for me. You're wrong, and I don;t want to be NKed and see a bunch of people talking about how bad I obviously was after I am dead, when I actually think I have had a pretty positive effect on the civs in this game

It was identical to what Bullz did. It's humourous. I think it's weird that you are defending against a joke.

Was this your big case? Let me know if you have anything else. But I am sure you don't cause...

It's wrong.

Here's where I am 100% sure that you are not attempting any reading comprehension with my posts, or Dreamy's, for that matter. What "big case" are you talking about?? I'm going to quote my words for you again, and I advise you to actually read them this time:

My post was a couple of things. It was an explanation of a suspicion and a compliment. It was a promise. It was a defense. At the bottom, it was a humourous observation.

What it was not was a case. I'm VERY interested in how you read this post and say that it's just "wrong", and how you could call it a case.

So, you called my post a case on you, when actually reading it would show you that it was a few things, but not a case on you.

THEN, after I carefully explained what my post was and was not, you post this garbage? "Was this your big case?" YOU ARE NOT READING!

I am moving the vote to Dreamy. I think her vote was really opportunistic, and the case she is saying is so convincing is pretty much gut, yes, LC?

You very obviously didn't read her post either. She never said there was a case that she found so convincing, probably because SHE is actually reading posts. Here, obviously I have to break it down again:

...the more time I spend reading LC's arguments the more I see where he's coming from and it was this post stuck out the most to me...

She refers to a post that stuck out to her.

The part about Sophie pinged me and I think that is because I had never taken my eye off of her since i started getting that vibe that I had pointed out earlier.

This is not about my post at all.

Then the part where she tells LC that he's wrong, but nothing telling him how or why.

This is what you did, and it is suspicious.

Lastly, I can't tell if the 3d paragraph is saying that TH and Timmer are a certain group or what but it just didn't sit well with me.

Again, not about my post, it's about YOURS.

You have not made me feel better about you, S~V~S, you've only reinforced the things I've already said. You are bad.

BUT, looks like DREAM is bad too, and is getting lynched, so see you tomorrow, S~V~S.

[DharmaHelper]

Of course I die before all the cool shit.

[DREAM]

I just got to work, first I'm sorry about my cell phone posts, I have no idea why it does that. I was on the BART when I was typing so maybe something to do with service but anyhoo, I'm at work now but I have to go to court in 20m so this may very well be my last in-game post.

Thank you LC for breaking that down for SVS because it was quite obvious that there is only selective reading going on there. So these are my thoughts before I log off for the day. SVS is bad, there's nothing going to change my mind about that, I'm going to vote for her. I believe that the initial few votes were warranted to get my attention and it did...and now the votes are staying why?

In any case, I'm voting SVS because I don't believe she is good. I think you guys ought to watch out for her I really believe that LC has her dead to rites and I wish more of you could see that.

That said, I need to get to prepped and get my life.

VOTES SVS

[Black Rock]

Okay, so I'm looking at today like this. We don't know how many New Rogues are left, but we do know that unless a series of people have been lying profusely, The Top is still alive.

So who is The Top? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the list of people claiming to have been mind controlled so far is rabbit, MM and BR? I feel like I've missed one. Rabbit had to vote for BF, BR had to push Roxy/Aces and couldn't go against me, and MM had to put my name in everything. Is that all correct?

So first off, we can rule out the absent players, and those who just subbed in. Honestly, if someone is deliberately never posting but sending in night actions, I quit mafia, that's just weak - so I personally rule out Soniji, Devin, Dreams here. I also rule out myself, though I know some of you may not. We can rule out llama as well.

So that leaves Bass 2, Black Rock, FZ, Long Con, MM, rabbit, Sophie, Daisy, SVS, TH.

Making someone say "Timmer" is not really Sophie's style, so I doubt it's her. Bass 2.0 wouldn't have made Black Rock go after Roxy/Aces as he has been solidly in support of Roxy, so it wouldn't be him. I don't really know FZ, so I'll need others to fill in an opinion there. TH has been supportive of me all game, so I doubt this is a TH thing. I would HOPE this hasn't been rabbit's doing; he's kind of not around and has admitted he doesn't have time for the game. To not post but to send in night actions such as these wouldn't be something he did, I think. And I still think Daisy's posts around when she thought she was going to be lynched point to her being an indy of some kind.

So I'm left with Black Rock, Long Con, MM, SVS. For reasons I can't say, I personally rule out SVS from the list. I don't know her role or anything that specific, but I do not think SVS is the one laying mind controls on. She could be bad, but not The Top, UNLESS there is a mind control I'm missing... have I missed one?

Which drops me to LC, BR and MM.

For me, it comes down to... who self-targeted versus is this LC's doing? I'm going to declare that I think it is MM. BR's stated mind control was subtle and very strategic; force her to concentrate on one set of suspicions and not another. It cries out solid manipulation. Rabbit's was more simple, but still very strategic; make a case against bf. But what was MM's? Say "Timmer" all over every post. There is nothing strategic about it, at all. It's a gag act, a silly thing to annoy people and generate some chuckles.

The "say Timmer" mind control does not fit the other two. Thus, I can only come to the conclusion that that one is false.

I'm voting MM today. Things that will potentially change my mind; if someone mentions a curse I forgot that changes the tilt of my case, or if someone can show how FZ could have done all of this, mores than MM's doing it.

I think it is narrow minded to rule out TH because he has publicly supported you. TH is just the feb that would publicly support someone while under-minding them behind the scenes. I would not rule out TH because of that. I do see the particular "Timmer" thing being MM though. Maybe he did self target. I'm leaning more towards TH though.

I haven't caught up yet, I will do that now.

[Black Rock]

So who is The Top? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the list of people claiming to have been mind controlled so far is rabbit, MM and BR? I feel like I've missed one. Rabbit had to vote for BF, BR had to push Roxy/Aces and couldn't go against me, and MM had to put my name in everything. Is that all correct?

The one that appears to be missing is Day 5, ie the Day Alex Committed Hara-kiri, but there's no conclusive evidence. It doesn't fit the others though. And you're right, neither does Marshy's

I don't really know how FZ would play that role, tbh I've only seen her baddie game in small doses. Her in-thread behavior doesn't really match up with whatever the Top is trying to accomplish though.

If I was the Top, then sure, I would probably self-target.

But I don't see why you guys are looking for consistency in the Top's mind control tactics. Do you think that the Top will feel the same way on Night 1 as he does on Night 4? Do you expect this player to use the same mind control each night, just switching players? I wouldn't. And MP's mind control result tells me that the Top was probably taking a bit of heat at the time, because of its drastic change in style. It seemed like a desperate attempt to try and give the New Rogues a better reputation for the public, but nobody really bought it. Timmer's early vote for MP, and lack of recognition of the possibility that he could be mind-controlled is what stuck out to me.

And also, I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, in addition to voting for him. I have not said so explicitly, but I've been looking for someone to slip and say so themselves. The fact that timmer did not makes me feel a little better about him, but not much. SVS came close, but I believe her statements were concurrent enough with what I have said in thread.

That doesn't make me feel better about you. I seriously only took you out of the running because you were targeted. Certain people will self target, I guess you are one. I really have to think about you now. Some of the mind controls seem like they could be you.

[Marmot]

So who is The Top? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the list of people claiming to have been mind controlled so far is rabbit, MM and BR? I feel like I've missed one. Rabbit had to vote for BF, BR had to push Roxy/Aces and couldn't go against me, and MM had to put my name in everything. Is that all correct?

The one that appears to be missing is Day 5, ie the Day Alex Committed Hara-kiri, but there's no conclusive evidence. It doesn't fit the others though. And you're right, neither does Marshy's

I don't really know how FZ would play that role, tbh I've only seen her baddie game in small doses. Her in-thread behavior doesn't really match up with whatever the Top is trying to accomplish though.

If I was the Top, then sure, I would probably self-target.

But I don't see why you guys are looking for consistency in the Top's mind control tactics. Do you think that the Top will feel the same way on Night 1 as he does on Night 4? Do you expect this player to use the same mind control each night, just switching players? I wouldn't. And MP's mind control result tells me that the Top was probably taking a bit of heat at the time, because of its drastic change in style. It seemed like a desperate attempt to try and give the New Rogues a better reputation for the public, but nobody really bought it. Timmer's early vote for MP, and lack of recognition of the possibility that he could be mind-controlled is what stuck out to me.

And also, I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, in addition to voting for him. I have not said so explicitly, but I've been looking for someone to slip and say so themselves. The fact that timmer did not makes me feel a little better about him, but not much. SVS came close, but I believe her statements were concurrent enough with what I have said in thread.

That doesn't make me feel better about you. I seriously only took you out of the running because you were targeted. Certain people will self target, I guess you are one. I really have to think about you now. Some of the mind controls seem like they could be you.

I like to be honest about such things. I even self-targeted (as a civilian) in Harry Stephen Keeler with a curse.

[Turnip Head]

I'm not sure I like the easy pileup on DREAM. DREAM, you were singled out over someone like Soneji because there's speculation that a more recent replacement took over a killing role, since we were missing some kills before you subbed in. I think you missed that part, or you didn't respond to it, which inadvertently makes me feel better about you. I don't really like your singular focus on SVS today though. I think there's been other things going on worth discussing. Maybe you are mind controlled.

I don't think SVS is bad, I think she's more likely to not read fully or defend strongly when she's a civvie, but I do think her vote for DREAM is just as opportunistic as DREAM's vote for SVS, and this was the reason SVS gave for voting her.

SVS you still haven't elaborated on the Sophie portion of your post. I guess maybe it's because you don't feel strongly about it anymore. But I feel like she is getting a free pass. Soneji is getting a free pass too but that's a different story.

Timmer, why did you vote DREAM over one flippant comment, instead of staying on MM - who you went to some lengths to suspect for game related reasons?

[Marmot]

I don't think SVS is bad, I think she's more likely to not read fully or defend strongly when she's a civvie, but I do think her vote for DREAM is just as opportunistic as DREAM's vote for SVS, and this was the reason SVS gave for voting her.

SVS reads fully no matter her alignment, unless perhaps there are extenuating circumstances like there are now.

[Turnip Head]

I think it is narrow minded to rule out TH because he has publicly supported you. TH is just the feb that would publicly support someone while under-minding them behind the scenes. I would not rule out TH because of that. I do see the particular "Timmer" thing being MM though. Maybe he did self target. I'm leaning more towards TH though.

I haven't caught up yet, I will do that now.

Take your tinfoil hat off BR :P This isn't me.

I could see MM targeting himself, and admitting to being a self-targeter. It doesn't really explain why his is the only one that's different from the other mind controls though, unless you count MP.

MM pushed Timmer's name a lot yesterday without elaborating throughout the Day. He retroactively painted a case (of Timmer "trying to be helpful" IIRC) the next night after the vote. I also felt like he made a big thing of posting the decoded New Rogue roles the other day, one post after another. Especially just after it seemed like a little heat was headed MM's way for the first time this game. MM also has not been casually saying things like "Vote Timmer" ever since we started talking about the Top in more detail today. What happened to your Timmer rage today, Marsh?

[Marmot]

I think it is narrow minded to rule out TH because he has publicly supported you. TH is just the feb that would publicly support someone while under-minding them behind the scenes. I would not rule out TH because of that. I do see the particular "Timmer" thing being MM though. Maybe he did self target. I'm leaning more towards TH though.

I haven't caught up yet, I will do that now.

Take your tinfoil hat off BR :P This isn't me.

I could see MM targeting himself, and admitting to being a self-targeter. It doesn't really explain why his is the only one that's different from the other mind controls though, unless you count MP.

MM pushed Timmer's name a lot yesterday without elaborating throughout the Day. He retroactively painted a case (of Timmer "trying to be helpful" IIRC) the next night after the vote. I also felt like he made a big thing of posting the decoded New Rogue roles the other day, one post after another. Especially just after it seemed like a little heat was headed MM's way for the first time this game. MM also has not been casually saying things like "Vote Timmer" ever since we started talking about the Top in more detail today. What happened to your Timmer rage today, Marsh?

I think timmer is a different role now.

[Turnip Head]

I also think BR and Timmer are both being narrow minded when they narrow down their Top suspects. I haven't ruled out the Top being any replaced player. There's nothing really linking the early rabbit and MM mind controls to the BR or even MP ones. It just looks like a lot of noise to me.