MINECRAFT - DAY SIX

[Boogs]

I'm not in favor of voting for any particular person at this point (even though I still have Llama a little on my radar) but, does anyone think the possibility with them arguing Llama (being Rogue in my opinion) tried to kill her but the Wolf may have switched the target of Llama with him being so high on suspicions, and it got put on Indiglo? Now the exchange with llama and SVS and MP arguing i feel is just her defending herself because Llama and others may be coming at her hard.
I then have to wonder: Who did the baddies try to kill then? But there is the Rock Civ thing that can block someone and it could have blocked the player they were going after now.
As to Epi/Elochin on a team: It could be possible yes, but then again it could have just been a wife defending her husband as natural instincts. But I'm not 100% convinced she is a Civ this early. Maybe she is trying to make us exactly believe that and also be on a bad team. Or Epi could be innocent too and framed , which I was believing for a little bit.
None the less, I will observe more and see how else we Civs feel before I draw who this lynch i should vote for. I could be wrong with not being as experienced, but I feel I may be onto something with one of my hunches at least.

[Roxy]

Nah Porcu you are still wonky

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

woot

[reywaS]

Wow, what a bunch of posts. I feel exhausted after reading all of that.

MP, you make a lot of sense with your case on Epignosis. I agree, we should lynch him today and go from there. I'm still not totally convinced that llama is not his team mate and the lynch was switched away from both of them, but I take your comments about llama's game play into consideration as I don't know him well at all. Interesting points you had there. Elohcin could be Epignosis team mate, but I do think you are off when it comes to SVS. First of all, she was targeted for a night kill by the baddies. Second, in my experience with SVS....and I have extensive experience with her both as her team mate (I've been team mates with her more than anyone else) and as a civvie going after her when she was also a civvie...she is more likely to get upset and give up as a civvie than as a baddie. I think she's a lot more cool and collected as a baddie strangely enough and much less likely to "give up". I could be wrong here, but I'm leaning civvie on SVS right now.

[Zany Dex]

I'm not buying SVS being baddie at this point.

RIP indi

[Russtifinko]

Wow, what a bunch of posts. I feel exhausted after reading all of that.

MP, you make a lot of sense with your case on Epignosis. I agree, we should lynch him today and go from there. I'm still not totally convinced that llama is not his team mate and the lynch was switched away from both of them, but I take your comments about llama's game play into consideration as I don't know him well at all. Interesting points you had there. Elohcin could be Epignosis team mate, but I do think you are off when it comes to SVS. First of all, she was targeted for a night kill by the baddies. Second, in my experience with SVS....and I have extensive experience with her both as her team mate (I've been team mates with her more than anyone else) and as a civvie going after her when she was also a civvie...she is more likely to get upset and give up as a civvie than as a baddie. I think she's a lot more cool and collected as a baddie strangely enough and much less likely to "give up". I could be wrong here, but I'm leaning civvie on SVS right now.

That was a lot to read! I think MP makes a very strong case. Good job to whoever rezzed him, and welcome back! I think MP is probably largely right. To me thread and vote evidence looks worse for Elohcin than Epi at the moment, but an Epi lynch is also a fine place to start. I think the case against SVS is a bit less strong than against those two, but if they flip bad I'll have an extremely close eye there

[Russtifinko]

Oh! And I was gonna say, MP being a civvie adds a ton of weight to his case. Good to be able to trust someone for sure this game. Any ideas on how to keep him around this time?

Assuming MPs theory is correct, any preliminary thoughts on who the fourth could be? I realize it's early to worry about that, and obviously we'll get more info with time, but I'm curious to hear whom people are thinking of.

[Snow Dog]

I didn't expect a novel when I logged in.

[Snow Dog]

Ok. The one person we are absolutely sure is Civ is MP. All his arguments make absolute sense. But if he is wrong anywhere it could all come tumbling down. Am willing to vote Epi though, despite my earlier feelings. Want to hear from him though.

[thellama73]

I know, me too, I am fried. Although, like I said, DP is often an easy target. So Llama, who voted for me, saying HE was an easy target made me feel good about my early "hissy fit" vote for Llama. That was really the whole point of me bringing DP up~

I never voted for you. What are you talking about?

[S~V~S]

I'm not buying SVS being baddie at this point.

RIP indi

Wow, what a bunch of posts. I feel exhausted after reading all of that.

MP, you make a lot of sense with your case on Epignosis. I agree, we should lynch him today and go from there. I'm still not totally convinced that llama is not his team mate and the lynch was switched away from both of them, but I take your comments about llama's game play into consideration as I don't know him well at all. Interesting points you had there. Elohcin could be Epignosis team mate, but I do think you are off when it comes to SVS. First of all, she was targeted for a night kill by the baddies. Second, in my experience with SVS....and I have extensive experience with her both as her team mate (I've been team mates with her more than anyone else) and as a civvie going after her when she was also a civvie...she is more likely to get upset and give up as a civvie than as a baddie. I think she's a lot more cool and collected as a baddie strangely enough and much less likely to "give up". I could be wrong here, but I'm leaning civvie on SVS right now.

Thank you for backing me up on that point, when I have people depending on me, I turn to them to keep me level, and I try harder to keep it together for the team.

I am still OK with mo vote for Llama, since starting with implying discuission was boring, moving on to voting for an easy target, and refusing to talk with me or take me seriously, UNTIL I survived an NK and he had no choice, all make me feel good about my vote for Llama. But I think an Epig lynch, since e3veryone else seems on board with that, is a good way to go.

And interesting theory about Epig/llama, Rey. I guess that is possible, it would be phenomenally bad luck for them to have 2 baddie teammates both under suspicion, but I guess it is possible.

linki @ llama, I meant "DP", not sure why I typed "me". Bad proofreading ftl I think it reads that way, too.

[thellama73]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Honestly, the reason I started responding to you in earnest was not because you survived a NK, but because I simply forgot that I was ignoring you and got sucked in.

[Epignosis]

A minute for rebuttal, MP?

I hope I can change your mind.

Because it's clear to me what's going on here and you are not changing my mind at all.

Oh.

Well then...I guess what I have to say is for the benefit of the rest of the jury.

1. He pushed for ship. I realize I was considering all options earlier, but now that I strongly believe ship was the baddie option, this is notable. Especially since Elohcin also voted for ship and her behavior is even more suspicious (more on her in a bit).

Yes I did. So what? No one has demonstrated that the ship was a bad choice. Or that the house was a good choice.

2. He pulls a NO U on He-Man when He-Man calls him out, and since has been trying to paint He-Man still as bad, in addition to an easy scapegoat (llama73). This is classic baddie behavior, guys, I’ve been in enough mafia games and been baddie enough to know.

He-Man flipped out against me after I considered voting for a low poster. thellama73 actually VOTED for a low poster. He-Man condemned him not at all, but still was set against me. Yet he had the nerve to call me a hypocrite.

3. I asked him earlier in Day 1 to contribute his thoughts regarding everything. He ignores me. In fact, he refuses to say anything about anyone specifically in this game until he has his go-around with He-Man, and now about llama73. His post analyzing where his vote probably would go with the moderate-low posters deal? It’s called setting up your vote. I do this as a baddie all the time, I try to weigh the options in the thread and set up a future vote.

Oh, I ignored you. Let's see.

viewtopic.php?p=13614#p13614

It's patently untrue that I ignored you. In fact, it was my response to you (and thellama73 in the same post) that led to He-Man's wild accusation against me.

4. He refuses to defend himself.

What would you have me say?

If I say, "Don't lynch me, I'm a civilian," people say, "Yeah right, typical baddie behavior!"
If I say, "I was framed!" people say, "You're just saying that because you're a baddie and want us to believe that!"
If I say, "S~V~S was targeted to make me look bad," people say "WIFOM and I'm not buying it, baddie!"
If I say, "Elohcin and I do not have BTSC," people say, "Yeah right, baddie! Look at how she follows you around like a duckling baddie!"
If I say, "He-Man was being inconsistent in Day 1," then you say, "He pulls a NO U." (whatever that is)

There is absolutely nothing I can say that will serve as a satisfactory defense. One cannot break wind without drawing suspicion.

5. He definitely had the most votes yesterday and should have died. Yet he didn’t. There’s no way he’s Diamond Sword and I very, very highly doubt he is being framed.

No, I'm not Diamond Sword.
I don't know if I'm being framed.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=13598#p13598 Here she says it’s difficult to know who to lynch. Now why doesn’t S~V~S get on HER for squashing discussion? Double standard much?

Ah, I see. You can call someone out for double standards, but when I do, it's a "go-around with He-Man."

And well, Elohcin and Epignosis were very clearly squashing discussion as well, correct?

I was "very clearly squashing discussion?" Where?

Epignosis dismissed all the Day 0 talk whatsoever as "bickering" and "red herring".

That is also untrue:

All what other stuff going on? The bickering about whether or not something was implied regarding a Day 0 poll? I dismissed that like the red herring it was.

I dismissed Snow Dog and Roxy's flare up over implying something regarding the house, not "all the Day 0 talk whatsoever."

++++

All this is to say that your lengthy observations are based on three things: 1. Unproven assumptions (i.e., the Ship was bad), 2. Things that are demonstrably untrue (i.e., that I ignored you, that I was squashing discussion, that I dismissed all Day 0 discussion), and 3. People behaving like you when you play a bad role.

It sounds like you have your mind made up, and now you are just wresting posts (or unashamedly making things up) in order to garner support.

I swear Alex, if I didn't know you were civilian, I'd likely be voting for you.

[thellama73]

What would you have me say?

If I say, "Don't lynch me, I'm a civilian," people say, "Yeah right, typical baddie behavior!"
If I say, "I was framed!" people say, "You're just saying that because you're a baddie and want us to believe that!"
If I say, "S~V~S was targeted to make me look bad," people say "WIFOM and I'm not buying it, baddie!"
If I say, "Elohcin and I do not have BTSC," people say, "Yeah right, baddie! Look at how she follows you around like a duckling baddie!"
If I say, "He-Man was being inconsistent in Day 1," then you say, "He pulls a NO U." (whatever that is)

There is absolutely nothing I can say that will serve as a satisfactory defense. One cannot break wind without drawing suspicion.

This is essentially the reason I stopped responding to SVS.

What say you about the uncharacteristic chilliness between us in this game, Rob?

[Snow Dog]

What would you have me say?

If I say, "Don't lynch me, I'm a civilian," people say, "Yeah right, typical baddie behavior!"
If I say, "I was framed!" people say, "You're just saying that because you're a baddie and want us to believe that!"
If I say, "S~V~S was targeted to make me look bad," people say "WIFOM and I'm not buying it, baddie!"
If I say, "Elohcin and I do not have BTSC," people say, "Yeah right, baddie! Look at how she follows you around like a duckling baddie!"
If I say, "He-Man was being inconsistent in Day 1," then you say, "He pulls a NO U." (whatever that is)

There is absolutely nothing I can say that will serve as a satisfactory defense. One cannot break wind without drawing suspicion.

This is essentially the reason I stopped responding to SVS.

What say you about the uncharacteristic chilliness between us in this game, Rob?

As I said earlier, remove a few bricks and Mp's thesis crumbles. (for those worried I know I didn't exactly say that using those words.)

[Russtifinko]

Well Epi's defense there seemed pretty solid. MP is absolutely trustworthy, but he could have it wrong I guess...But if that is the case, where should we be looking for baddies? I do t have any other leads, and I refuse to condone randomizations on day 2.

Also, so everyone knows, I'll be on a mini vacation from tomorrow through Tuesday. I'll still vote and at least have short posts explaining why I vote the way I do, but don't expect much more than that.

And MP, I should've said this hours ago, but HOLY COW you're alive! Get it?

[Tangrowth]

First who is ' Wolf'?
So I guess most of it seems like a statement I really shouldn't be so lazy with my punctuation.

So you see why I hesitate to jump right to frame job? Like you said you have done the same and gave your team the win. Which is why I ask why did you jump so quickly to frame job? Just b/c of llama? He could be rogue but I don't think he is mafia.

You really do not say a lot about Elohcin. You did not find her and Epig's parroting to be nose twitching?

"Wolf" is a role

Wolf - Wild until the baby wolf finds him or he finds the baby wolf. Each night, while wild, he will switch the targets of any two players. Each night searches for the baby wolf. Once tame... *secret*

And I was not making a comment on your grammar, i was explaining why i did not reply to it. And we obviously do not find the same things to be nose twitching, since I do not find myself even remotely suspicious.

Linki @ Alex~ I know Kate well, lol, and i initially doubted she would put them on the same team. When she said Andrew assigned it, i thought it more likely as it was more likely to be a random result with a 4 person baddie team. But the odds would still be against it.

i could be wrong. I don't know her at all, and mainly know him from the mod/host thing in MOTU.

I'm sorry, but why would she not put them on the same team? You haven't explained that, but whatever, it's a moot point I suppose.

I also want to apologize if I did upset you with one post in particular last night, I didn't intend to.

Also, Alex, I have to do rereads all the time since I am mostly on phone during the day, and if there is a lot of posting (like right before the last lynch, when all the Epig/Elo discussion was happeneing) I was going through liek 10x linkis just trying to post a vote. So maybe you say that about "a quick reread" all the time when you are bad, but i do not.

i really need to do those reread since I miss a lot on the phone during weekdays.

Linki @ FH~ OK, but I still think it is plausible in a speed game especially that the baddies "use it or lose it". You have to use up those one use items fast, or the game is over. Ask Russti, MacG ended with him holding a civ switch and stop. In Jurassic Park at LP my team used our switch to save a member of the OTHER baddie team, lol, and while the civs were concentrating on them, we took them all out.

The more likely scenario is that Epig is bad, but I am not totally convinced becasue the pile on him really felt like an attempt to save Llama, and there is only the one bad team. Or maybe he is the Sword. I just really, really think there was a save of Llama.

@Rox, OK, ha ha, I thought it was like a "thing" I was woefully ignorant of

Linki @ Llama, I am sure in my gut. That certainly is not infallible. And which hand did i overplay exactly?

How could there have been a save for llama? I was one of those votes. Indiglo was the other. If you really are a civvie, I think you're suffering from extreme tunnel vision and you need to re-evaluate.

I'm not in favor of voting for any particular person at this point (even though I still have Llama a little on my radar) but, does anyone think the possibility with them arguing Llama (being Rogue in my opinion) tried to kill her but the Wolf may have switched the target of Llama with him being so high on suspicions, and it got put on Indiglo? Now the exchange with llama and SVS and MP arguing i feel is just her defending herself because Llama and others may be coming at her hard.
I then have to wonder: Who did the baddies try to kill then? But there is the Rock Civ thing that can block someone and it could have blocked the player they were going after now.
As to Epi/Elochin on a team: It could be possible yes, but then again it could have just been a wife defending her husband as natural instincts. But I'm not 100% convinced she is a Civ this early. Maybe she is trying to make us exactly believe that and also be on a bad team. Or Epi could be innocent too and framed , which I was believing for a little bit.
None the less, I will observe more and see how else we Civs feel before I draw who this lynch i should vote for. I could be wrong with not being as experienced, but I feel I may be onto something with one of my hunches at least.

Your posts have seemed a bit odd to me all game, and this one in particular is very... noncommittal. You also said "we Civs", and why such a weird theory? Why would the Wolf have switched targets; how are you drawing that? Sure, it's a possibility, but let me try and understand your train of thought. BF, any thoughts here?

Wow, what a bunch of posts. I feel exhausted after reading all of that.

MP, you make a lot of sense with your case on Epignosis. I agree, we should lynch him today and go from there. I'm still not totally convinced that llama is not his team mate and the lynch was switched away from both of them, but I take your comments about llama's game play into consideration as I don't know him well at all. Interesting points you had there. Elohcin could be Epignosis team mate, but I do think you are off when it comes to SVS. First of all, she was targeted for a night kill by the baddies. Second, in my experience with SVS....and I have extensive experience with her both as her team mate (I've been team mates with her more than anyone else) and as a civvie going after her when she was also a civvie...she is more likely to get upset and give up as a civvie than as a baddie. I think she's a lot more cool and collected as a baddie strangely enough and much less likely to "give up". I could be wrong here, but I'm leaning civvie on SVS right now.

I'm not absolutely sold on llama being civvie either, but I've seen nothing abnormal from him here and I do think he has been made an unfair scapegoat.

I appreciate your commentary on S~V~S, so thank you. Assuming Epignosis is bad, I definitely think Elohcin is more likely to be baddie than S~V~S. I still am not reading her as a civvie though.

Linki with Russ: I would actually say it's anything OTHER than solid. I'm about to address it in a separate post here in a minute. There are a couple things that really make me feel better about this.

And LOL, exactly!

[Epignosis]

What say you about the uncharacteristic chilliness between us in this game, Rob?

I wouldn't say there's a chilliness between us- I've just never played one with you before. I haven't been chummy with anyone in this thread, I don't think.

[thellama73]

I wish I had the certainty of others in this thread. Epignosis makes a convincing case for himself, and I believe I have demonstrated how a frame job would be a better baddie strategy than a straight protection. However, if Epignosis is indeed bad, would they not have used the switch to save him? I am reading Elohcin as bad, and I think she is on a team with Rob, so that makes me suspect him as well.

SVS is a tough one. Her Captain Ahab mentality with me seems very odd, but I don't know if a baddie would expose themselves so. I keep going around and around in a very WIFOM way on her, unable to decide. I would actually prefer to lynch Elohcin today over Rob, but I'm holding my vote for now.

[Tangrowth]

A minute for rebuttal, MP?

I hope I can change your mind.

Because it's clear to me what's going on here and you are not changing my mind at all.

Oh.

Well then...I guess what I have to say is for the benefit of the rest of the jury.

1. He pushed for ship. I realize I was considering all options earlier, but now that I strongly believe ship was the baddie option, this is notable. Especially since Elohcin also voted for ship and her behavior is even more suspicious (more on her in a bit).

Yes I did. So what? No one has demonstrated that the ship was a bad choice. Or that the house was a good choice.

2. He pulls a NO U on He-Man when He-Man calls him out, and since has been trying to paint He-Man still as bad, in addition to an easy scapegoat (llama73). This is classic baddie behavior, guys, I’ve been in enough mafia games and been baddie enough to know.

He-Man flipped out against me after I considered voting for a low poster. thellama73 actually VOTED for a low poster. He-Man condemned him not at all, but still was set against me. Yet he had the nerve to call me a hypocrite.

3. I asked him earlier in Day 1 to contribute his thoughts regarding everything. He ignores me. In fact, he refuses to say anything about anyone specifically in this game until he has his go-around with He-Man, and now about llama73. His post analyzing where his vote probably would go with the moderate-low posters deal? It’s called setting up your vote. I do this as a baddie all the time, I try to weigh the options in the thread and set up a future vote.

Oh, I ignored you. Let's see.

viewtopic.php?p=13614#p13614

It's patently untrue that I ignored you. In fact, it was my response to you (and thellama73 in the same post) that led to He-Man's wild accusation against me.

4. He refuses to defend himself.

What would you have me say?

If I say, "Don't lynch me, I'm a civilian," people say, "Yeah right, typical baddie behavior!"
If I say, "I was framed!" people say, "You're just saying that because you're a baddie and want us to believe that!"
If I say, "S~V~S was targeted to make me look bad," people say "WIFOM and I'm not buying it, baddie!"
If I say, "Elohcin and I do not have BTSC," people say, "Yeah right, baddie! Look at how she follows you around like a duckling baddie!"
If I say, "He-Man was being inconsistent in Day 1," then you say, "He pulls a NO U." (whatever that is)

There is absolutely nothing I can say that will serve as a satisfactory defense. One cannot break wind without drawing suspicion.

5. He definitely had the most votes yesterday and should have died. Yet he didn’t. There’s no way he’s Diamond Sword and I very, very highly doubt he is being framed.

No, I'm not Diamond Sword.
I don't know if I'm being framed.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=129&p=13598#p13598 Here she says it’s difficult to know who to lynch. Now why doesn’t S~V~S get on HER for squashing discussion? Double standard much?

Ah, I see. You can call someone out for double standards, but when I do, it's a "go-around with He-Man."

And well, Elohcin and Epignosis were very clearly squashing discussion as well, correct?

I was "very clearly squashing discussion?" Where?

Epignosis dismissed all the Day 0 talk whatsoever as "bickering" and "red herring".

That is also untrue:

All what other stuff going on? The bickering about whether or not something was implied regarding a Day 0 poll? I dismissed that like the red herring it was.

I dismissed Snow Dog and Roxy's flare up over implying something regarding the house, not "all the Day 0 talk whatsoever."

++++

All this is to say that your lengthy observations are based on three things: 1. Unproven assumptions (i.e., the Ship was bad), 2. Things that are demonstrably untrue (i.e., that I ignored you, that I was squashing discussion, that I dismissed all Day 0 discussion), and 3. People behaving like you when you play a bad role.

It sounds like you have your mind made up, and now you are just wresting posts (or unashamedly making things up) in order to garner support.

I swear Alex, if I didn't know you were civilian, I'd likely be voting for you.

I'll address your points one by one here.

1. No one has demonstrated that ship was bad or house was good because we cannot talk about prizes. I firmly know that house was good and that you were supposed to die.

2. Here you are still focusing on others. I was giving you the BOTD for that exchange. If you remember, that's not why I find you baddie. You didn't start seeming baddie to me until your later posts.

3. N/A (does the fact that you ignored me and you're not now require a response? Lol)

4. Why wouldn't you at least come in here and defend yourself? That's the difference between a civvie and a baddie, and let me explain to you. A civvie has nothing to lose other than his or her own life. Therefore, when unjustly called out, they will defend, because they are not lying. A baddie has to come up with a lying defense a lot of the time. Exactly what you posted here is exactly what goes through a baddie's mind --- I can't defend any of these ways because they draw more attention to me! If anything, your silence is what you did you in. And for the record, if you did defend with "I'm a civvie", it doesn't necessarily ring one way or the other. It's not even what you say so much as the fact that you went away from the thread and refused to say anything on anyone, even yourself, until you pulled a NO U on He-Man (he was accusing you first, so now you find him baddie, that's what a no u is) and then you get on llama (why exactly now? Have you even explained this one? Oh right, it's because they're teaming up on you, right?). You STILL refuse to voice anything about Elohcin. You should know her better than anyone else. So what do you think of her behavior?

5. Okay, so if you're not Diamond Sword, and you had the most votes yesterday yet I died because of a lynch switch, then how are you NOT being framed? How can you not know that?

6. I never said you calling out anyone for double standards was wrong, but it's true that you voiced no tangible thoughts of anyone in the thread (besides your low-moderate poster theory/stuff) until He-Man started going after you, and then you tried painting him as baddie. It's a classic baddie trick. Do you still think he's baddie or what?

7. You were very clearly squashing discussion. Right here: "here's your post Here Epignosis says all of the Day 0 “bickering” he dismissed as the “red herring it was”. I KNOW this not to be true. He’s flat out lying." This goes into what you said after that. I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter how many times you say it, the Day 0 poll mattered. People had info. There are no unproven assumptions just because I can't talk about things in the thread. I know house was good. I am a civvie. You keep trying to spread doubt. I don't blame you.

You also fail to address why you've only spoken on-topic about suspicions regarding only He-Man and llama. Can you elaborate there, perhaps?

But oh man, the no u for me at the end just takes the cake. You are absolutely baddie, I don't care how good your defense seems. I give you props though.

[Tangrowth]

Also, Robert, what the hell was that, your theory about He-Man trying to get votes? Can you address that nonsense for me? How did you come to that genius conclusion?

[Tangrowth]

Well Epi's defense there seemed pretty solid. MP is absolutely trustworthy, but he could have it wrong I guess...But if that is the case, where should we be looking for baddies? I do t have any other leads, and I refuse to condone randomizations on day 2.

Also, so everyone knows, I'll be on a mini vacation from tomorrow through Tuesday. I'll still vote and at least have short posts explaining why I vote the way I do, but don't expect much more than that.

And MP, I should've said this hours ago, but HOLY COW you're alive! Get it?

Here are the facts though. Epignosis had the most votes. A lynch switch was used and I died. He is not Diamond Sword (and he even admitted it). Therefore, there are two possibilities. Epignosis is being framed, or he's baddie. His responses make me feel absolutely no better about him, and I still am very sure he's baddie. There is that very small paranoid part in the back of my mind, but I do not think he was being framed at all. His behavior and his defense, while it may seem adequate, are unconvincing for my taste. I tell you what, he's apparently done a good job with you and llama though, spreading the seeds of doubt.

Just trust me on this one. If I'm absolutely off my rocker, what's the worst that could happen? Epignosis is lynched, flips a non-Diamond Sword civvie, and then we have much more information to base the next vote on. However, I am very confident that will not happen.

[thellama73]

I expect you can't answer this, but how do you know the house is good, MP? I didn't see any effect from my vote.

[Tangrowth]

It seems the vote is headed towards Epignosis, so I have been thinking hard about him.

Logically, I think the baddies would have been smarter to switch a civvie to another civvie than to protect one of their own.

Also, I meant to engage you in this. Sorry for so many posts in a row.

You still think this to be the case? Why? If Epignosis was lynched yesterday and flipped baddie, guess what? They could have lost a pivotal role and they're already down 1 person. Then guess who would be getting lynched today? Elohcin.

If they use the lynch switch, they buy themselves an extra day, and an extra night to use Epignosis's power, and they also can fight for the following day and plant all sorts of seeds of doubt. Sure, a framing is possible, but has Epignosis's behavior seemed really all that civvie to you? Ask yourself that one. I don't care if his defense was adequate, was it civvie?

I'm not hellbent on getting everyone to agree with my crazy theory, like Epignosis seems to be trying to convince, I'm trying to analyze everything we know here and everything I know.

Linki with llama: You did not see any effect from your vote? This is interesting. I would comment further, but were you even allowed to say that? Lol.

[Snow Dog]

Well hang on there MP. You KNOW the house was the good option because you are a civ? I happen to be a civ too and I don't even know house was the good or correct option. Do you have extra info?

linki wityh llama

[thellama73]

You still think this to be the case?

I think if the baddies had a choice between framing a civvie and protecting one of their own, framing a civvie would be the smarter choice. However, they did not have a choice. Epi is either a baddie or he is not. If he is not, it would have been smart for them to switch the vote. If he is, it also would have been smart for them to switch the vote. Given how the conversation has progressed, I think he is more likely bad than not at this point.

Linki with llama: You did not see any effect from your vote? This is interesting. I would comment further, but were you even allowed to say that? Lol.

Bear in mind, I might be lying.

[Epignosis]

Also, Robert, what the hell was that, your theory about He-Man trying to get votes? Can you address that nonsense for me? How did you come to that genius conclusion?

I never said He-Man was trying to get votes. I felt he was trying to get MY vote. Big difference.

And I explained that already. In fact, you quoted it in your tirade against me.

Then he says:

Roxy I am precious lol also epig made that comment about making him vote me not snow dog

Epig llama had enough attention you had none he was trying to take heat off of him you made your comment to blend. This is why I aimed my suspicion at you and not llama

I think you and thellama73 are together. I think you wanted to absorb my vote, since he had, in your own words, "enough heat."

If you're bad, there's no such thing as enough heat.

Now he says He-Man and llama73 are together. Again he never address anything directed about him.

You may be civilian, but you have a strange agenda, and you are deliberately twisting my words to advance it (like still saying I tried to "squash discussion" when I dismissed only Snow Dog and Roxy's exchange regarding who implied what- nothing more).

[reywaS]

llama, I am curious about something. You have been quite vocal since MP's lynch that you think Epi was being framed. Then, seemingly out of the blue after recently reiterating this thought, you say this:

It seems the vote is headed towards Epignosis, so I have been thinking hard about him.

Logically, I think the baddies would have been smarter to switch a civvie to another civvie than to protect one of their own. However, I know Rob quite well and we usually have quite a good rapport. There has been no such banter during this game. There has been a cool distance between us, and it saddens me. This makes me think that he is indeed a baddie and likely his wife with him. I would be okay with a Epignosis lynch today.

and now this morning:

I wish I had the certainty of others in this thread. Epignosis makes a convincing case for himself, and I believe I have demonstrated how a frame job would be a better baddie strategy than a straight protection. However, if Epignosis is indeed bad, would they not have used the switch to save him? I am reading Elohcin as bad, and I think she is on a team with Rob, so that makes me suspect him as well.

SVS is a tough one. Her Captain Ahab mentality with me seems very odd, but I don't know if a baddie would expose themselves so. I keep going around and around in a very WIFOM way on her, unable to decide. I would actually prefer to lynch Elohcin today over Rob, but I'm holding my vote for now.

You aren't exactly convincing me that I was wrong in thinking that you and Epi are team mates....

[Snow Dog]

My head is a swirl...first I agree with Mp, next I agree with Epi, and so on back and for.

I can't vote Epi after all. Just doesn't sit right with me somehow.

[Tangrowth]

Well hang on there MP. You KNOW the house was the good option because you are a civ? I happen to be a civ too and I don't even know house was the good or correct option. Do you have extra info?

linki wityh llama

I do not want to discuss this any further because I do not want to madden the host. Let's take that piece out of my argument then, let's assume the Day 0 poll didn't matter, alright?

We still have the facts of:
1. Lynch switch was used yesterday, I died instead of Epignosis (the person who had the most votes). He admits he's not Diamond Sword. He must be being framed or a baddie.
2. His behavior is so classic baddie it's not funny, and it's not just based on MY behavior as baddie. I've played near around 50 mafia games with tons of different players. I've been baddie, I've seen so many of those people as baddie, and I've seen many different kinds of people handle baddie roles. Not everyone handles them the same. But let me tell you, I feel confident that I can tell his behavior is not one of a civvie role here, unless I'm totally and absolutely off the mark. First the NO U on He-Man, and then his squashing the Day 0 bickering (I know what he says it's about NOW, that doesn't mean that's what he originally meant, go back and look at what he actually said), and his ties with Elohcin (who is very clearly exhibiting baddie behavior), and his original post about low-moderate posters, setting up his future Day 1 post so that he could avoid actually committing to on-topic suspicions, and then the icing on the cake when he responded to me with the NO U on me if I wasn't civvie. You really think that's civvie behavior?

Also, Robert, what the hell was that, your theory about He-Man trying to get votes? Can you address that nonsense for me? How did you come to that genius conclusion?

I never said He-Man was trying to get votes. I felt he was trying to get MY vote. Big difference.

And I explained that already. In fact, you quoted it in your tirade against me.

Then he says:

Roxy I am precious lol also epig made that comment about making him vote me not snow dog

Epig llama had enough attention you had none he was trying to take heat off of him you made your comment to blend. This is why I aimed my suspicion at you and not llama

I think you and thellama73 are together. I think you wanted to absorb my vote, since he had, in your own words, "enough heat."

If you're bad, there's no such thing as enough heat.

Now he says He-Man and llama73 are together. Again he never address anything directed about him.

You may be civilian, but you have a strange agenda, and you are deliberately twisting my words to advance it (like still saying I tried to "squash discussion" when I dismissed only Snow Dog and Roxy's exchange regarding who implied what- nothing more).

But how does that make sense and make him baddie? I'll give you this, you're a fantastic debater, and it's been fun.

As to your second point, how can I have a strange agenda? I'm a civvie, like all other ones here, trying to figure out who is baddie most and who isn't. Can't you even recognize that the facts seem to indicate that you are very likely baddie here? How can I be deliberately twisting your words any more than you are mine? You never said it was about Snow Dog and Rox's exchange originally, you didn't mention their names in that post, correct?

I love how you still haven't addressed to elaborate on your thoughts as to why He-Man and llama are truly worthy of votes. I realize you have your original posts. So what say you? Do you still think they're worthy of a vote? If you're a civvie then and I'm so wrong, who should we be voting for?

I find it hilarious that if I wasn't confirmed right now that you'd still be trying to pull a NO U and say that I'm baddie. So everyone that suspects you is baddie or are they just wrong?

If you aren't baddie, then you must have been framed, right? How could you not know that? You ignored to answer that question when I just asked it before, so how about I ask it again?

Linki with reywaS: I'm starting to wonder myself, though I'm also wondering if Snow Dog might be a teammate as well, or instead. I think it needs to be taken one step at a time though and that it's most logical to lynch Epignosis first. I have to go study now, so I'll be back to cast my vote later. I'm hoping others will come in and contribute more on all of this, especially now that Epignosis has defended.

[thellama73]

llama, I am curious about something. You have been quite vocal since MP's lynch that you think Epi was being framed. Then, seemingly out of the blue after recently reiterating this thought, you say this:

It seems the vote is headed towards Epignosis, so I have been thinking hard about him.

Logically, I think the baddies would have been smarter to switch a civvie to another civvie than to protect one of their own. However, I know Rob quite well and we usually have quite a good rapport. There has been no such banter during this game. There has been a cool distance between us, and it saddens me. This makes me think that he is indeed a baddie and likely his wife with him. I would be okay with a Epignosis lynch today.

and now this morning:

I wish I had the certainty of others in this thread. Epignosis makes a convincing case for himself, and I believe I have demonstrated how a frame job would be a better baddie strategy than a straight protection. However, if Epignosis is indeed bad, would they not have used the switch to save him? I am reading Elohcin as bad, and I think she is on a team with Rob, so that makes me suspect him as well.

SVS is a tough one. Her Captain Ahab mentality with me seems very odd, but I don't know if a baddie would expose themselves so. I keep going around and around in a very WIFOM way on her, unable to decide. I would actually prefer to lynch Elohcin today over Rob, but I'm holding my vote for now.

You aren't exactly convincing me that I was wrong in thinking that you and Epi are team mates....

I can explain this. My analysis of why framing Epi would be a smart move remains sound, but I only recently realized that I was setting up a false dichotomy. The baddies cannot choose whether Epi is bad or not, and given that he got the most votes, the only decision they could make was rather to save him or not. Therefore, the fact that a frame would be logically superior to a straight save is irrelevant in that situation. I was nervous about lynching him for fear that he is civvie, and I still am a little nervous about it, but I am much more amenable to a vote for him than I was before. Elohcin's behavior pi9ngs me more than Rob's does, but I would be okay with lynching either of them today. I also have a lot of faith in MP's analytical skills now that we know he is civvie, so I tend to give his theories the benefit of the doubt unless I can clearly see why he is wrong.

Hope that clears things up.

[Snow Dog]

I think He-Man is bad still. reywaS less so. Not convinced on Epi.

[Epignosis]

Can't you even recognize that the facts seem to indicate that you are very likely baddie here? How can I be deliberately twisting your words any more than you are mine? You never said it was about Snow Dog and Rox's exchange originally, you didn't mention their names in that post, correct?

I believe it's very clear from the context, and even if it was not, the burden of proof is on you to show how I was "squashing discussion" by that comment. I didn't tell anyone else they had to dismiss anything.

I love how you still haven't addressed to elaborate on your thoughts as to why He-Man and llama are truly worthy of votes. I realize you have your original posts. So what say you? Do you still think they're worthy of a vote? If you're a civvie then and I'm so wrong, who should we be voting for?

Some of us like to think a while before we post.

Then there are others who like to post. A lot.

I am reconsidering my suspicion of thellama73 since He-Man does not appear in the poll. The Wolf could have switched the Aether Portal's target. So I don't know.

If you aren't baddie, then you must have been framed, right? How could you not know that? You ignored to answer that question when I just asked it before, so how about I ask it again?

I don't have to answer any of your questions (especially when there are fourteen hundred of them, and half of them would get a failing grade for reading comprehension skills).

Draw your own conclusions.

Oh, that's right, you already have.

I have to go study now

Thank God.

[Russtifinko]

1. No one has demonstrated that ship was bad or house was good because we cannot talk about prizes. I firmly know that house was good and that you were supposed to die.

I can vouch for this, though I know I lack MP's level of cred. Doubt I can say more. I know someone asked.

Ahhh, my brain hurts! Just what the baddies want, I expect.
I do actually agree with Epi that, in context, the quote MP is pulling reads as being frustrated with Snow Dog and Roxy's debate and not trying to quash all discussion. Not sure it affects your main point, just weighing in there. Also, I can vouch for MP that the house was a good choice, though I realize I don't have his cred.

I also think, as I said before, the Elohcin looks worse than Epi to me right now, and now that I've thought about it more I propose we lynch her first. Here's why:

I think Epi is most likely the zombie (if he is bad, of course). That's because if he were another baddie, it's possible that his teammates would allow him to be lynched and try to distance themselves from him (aside from Eloh, who was probably in trouble if he went down). On the other hand, if he were zombie he'd have been forced to use the switch, since it would have been his only chance before dying. If that's the case, Epi has no power anymore (except possibly using his team's NK), and thus is less valuable than the other baddies, who all have other powers to use. If everyone feels ok with an Eloh lynch, I think it has the potential to hurt the baddies more. Hope that makes sense. On the other hand, if people are more sure about Epi or feel a lynch for him would yield more info that's a fair argument to make.

[Snow Dog]

1. No one has demonstrated that ship was bad or house was good because we cannot talk about prizes. I firmly know that house was good and that you were supposed to die.

I can vouch for this, though I know I lack MP's level of cred. Doubt I can say more. I know someone asked.

In that case it must be because I didn't vote house that I know nothing of this. So not a civvie thing a vote thing. If you see the thing I'm trying to say.

[Russtifinko]

As I said, doubt I could comment if I did know, but I don't. Sorry!

[Snow Dog]

As I said, doubt I could comment if I did know, but I don't. Sorry!

hang on..didn't you just say you did know? You said something like...I can confirm what MP is saying?

[Snow Dog]

Oh you mean you don't know who or why they got your info, right?

[Russtifinko]

Yeah exactly. I can confirm what MP said, but don't know the answer to your follow-up question: "So a not civvie thing not a vote thing?"

[Snow Dog]

Yeah exactly. I can confirm what MP said, but don't know the answer to your follow-up question: "So a not civvie thing not a vote thing?"

Now that you quote me I even make less sense.

[Boogs]

I'm not in favor of voting for any particular person at this point (even though I still have Llama a little on my radar) but, does anyone think the possibility with them arguing Llama (being Rogue in my opinion) tried to kill her but the Wolf may have switched the target of Llama with him being so high on suspicions, and it got put on Indiglo? Now the exchange with llama and SVS and MP arguing i feel is just her defending herself because Llama and others may be coming at her hard.
I then have to wonder: Who did the baddies try to kill then? But there is the Rock Civ thing that can block someone and it could have blocked the player they were going after now.
As to Epi/Elochin on a team: It could be possible yes, but then again it could have just been a wife defending her husband as natural instincts. But I'm not 100% convinced she is a Civ this early. Maybe she is trying to make us exactly believe that and also be on a bad team. Or Epi could be innocent too and framed , which I was believing for a little bit.
None the less, I will observe more and see how else we Civs feel before I draw who this lynch i should vote for. I could be wrong with not being as experienced, but I feel I may be onto something with one of my hunches at least.

Your posts have seemed a bit odd to me all game, and this one in particular is very... noncommittal. You also said "we Civs", and why such a weird theory? Why would the Wolf have switched targets; how are you drawing that? Sure, it's a possibility, but let me try and understand your train of thought. BF, any thoughts here?


I was just suggesting a possibility because I am not set on SVS or Epi being bad. I was open to the possibility that Epi and Elochin may have been but on a bad team, but like I said, it could have been just defense for her hubby. I am most likely completely wrong about most of the kill theory and it does seem a little difficult going back and reading my own post with how the Wolf would know since he doesn't have BTSC, but I am new to this website and to all you guys so my posts sometimes may seem weird as I don't know players as well as other who do these games all the time and you know how they play or may think.

After catching up more since last night, I feel actually like Epi had a good defense. I could be really wrong, but I am going to go ahead and cast my vote and I will admit i was wrong if he turns up being bad and lynched.

I vote Llama like stated I wanted to earlier with hopes of him being Rogue or a Baddie. The uneasiness is still there.

[Zany Dex]

I think He-Man is bad still. reywaS less so. Not convinced on Epi.

Why is that?

[Russtifinko]

Hahaha oops. I misquoted I believe. That's what I get for doing it by hand. Nap time! I hope more people weigh in, I'm going either Epi or Eloh but it'd be nice to get a little more consensus on who we should try to get first.

[Snow Dog]

I think He-Man is bad still. reywaS less so. Not convinced on Epi.

Why is that?

Mostly the way you went for Epi due to his original thoughts on who to vote. And.....just a feeling I suppose. Now if Epi turns out bad I will take it all back.

[Ambray]

Holy Batman and Robin.

Haven't seen such an active start to a game, with theories and suspicions all over the place, in quite a while!

Although MP is a civ, yes, we must remember what he is bringing up are theories alone. They are not based on knowledge as he was dead for the night, he couldn't use his power. So although I am listening to him, got to take things with a pinch of salt.

At this point though, I am agreeing with him that and Epig lynch would be most revealing at this point in the game and would give us a good sense of direction for the following lynches.

BF - I'd like to hear your opinion on Boogs.

1. No one has demonstrated that ship was bad or house was good because we cannot talk about prizes. I firmly know that house was good and that you were supposed to die.

I can vouch for this, though I know I lack MP's level of cred. Doubt I can say more. I know someone asked.

Ahhh, my brain hurts! Just what the baddies want, I expect.
I do actually agree with Epi that, in context, the quote MP is pulling reads as being frustrated with Snow Dog and Roxy's debate and not trying to quash all discussion. Not sure it affects your main point, just weighing in there. Also, I can vouch for MP that the house was a good choice, though I realize I don't have his cred.

I also think, as I said before, the Elohcin looks worse than Epi to me right now, and now that I've thought about it more I propose we lynch her first. Here's why:

I think Epi is most likely the zombie (if he is bad, of course). That's because if he were another baddie, it's possible that his teammates would allow him to be lynched and try to distance themselves from him (aside from Eloh, who was probably in trouble if he went down). On the other hand, if he were zombie he'd have been forced to use the switch, since it would have been his only chance before dying. If that's the case, Epi has no power anymore (except possibly using his team's NK), and thus is less valuable than the other baddies, who all have other powers to use. If everyone feels ok with an Eloh lynch, I think it has the potential to hurt the baddies more. Hope that makes sense. On the other hand, if people are more sure about Epi or feel a lynch for him would yield more info that's a fair argument to make.

Now Russ, (I wrote ruff again initially, sorry if I keep calling you that through the game, I don't know why.. xD) you have giving me something to think about.

From what I understand, the Eloh suspicion comes from being connected to Epig? Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I have made out from those that have brought her up.
If Epig is the zombie, I'm wondering whether people think it is worth keeping him around for a bit, because then we know who the killer is.

Kate - Do you only accept the baddie kill from the Zombie, or can anyone from the baddie team send it in and you'll accept?

If we know who the killer is, we have power over them, as civvies with the right powers can block Epig at night. So we could lynch someone else, Eloh you are suggesting, today. A civvie with the right power can block Epig tonight and we can see what goes down.

HOWEVER. Just because we think the zombie sent in the lynch switch doesn't mean the Epig is the zombie. Epig could be anyone on that team (if he is indeed baddie) and a teammate has just sent it in to protect their teammate.

So I have talked myself out of that one.

I think lynching Epig is still for the best.

I love to ramble.


LINKI - Boogs, boogs, boogs. You had to play the newb card, didn't you? People arn't saying your posts are weird because of familiarity. It's your style. Not many people pick up the game like you have done in their first outing.

[Zany Dex]

I think He-Man is bad still. reywaS less so. Not convinced on Epi.

Why is that?

Mostly the way you went for Epi due to his original thoughts on who to vote. And.....just a feeling I suppose. Now if Epi turns out bad I will take it all back.

That's fine I suppose. I stand by my suspicion of epig.

Linki

[Boogs]

Holy Batman and Robin.

Haven't seen such an active start to a game, with theories and suspicions all over the place, in quite a while!

Although MP is a civ, yes, we must remember what he is bringing up are theories alone. They are not based on knowledge as he was dead for the night, he couldn't use his power. So although I am listening to him, got to take things with a pinch of salt.

At this point though, I am agreeing with him that and Epig lynch would be most revealing at this point in the game and would give us a good sense of direction for the following lynches.

BF - I'd like to hear your opinion on Boogs.

1. No one has demonstrated that ship was bad or house was good because we cannot talk about prizes. I firmly know that house was good and that you were supposed to die.

I can vouch for this, though I know I lack MP's level of cred. Doubt I can say more. I know someone asked.

Ahhh, my brain hurts! Just what the baddies want, I expect.
I do actually agree with Epi that, in context, the quote MP is pulling reads as being frustrated with Snow Dog and Roxy's debate and not trying to quash all discussion. Not sure it affects your main point, just weighing in there. Also, I can vouch for MP that the house was a good choice, though I realize I don't have his cred.

I also think, as I said before, the Elohcin looks worse than Epi to me right now, and now that I've thought about it more I propose we lynch her first. Here's why:

I think Epi is most likely the zombie (if he is bad, of course). That's because if he were another baddie, it's possible that his teammates would allow him to be lynched and try to distance themselves from him (aside from Eloh, who was probably in trouble if he went down). On the other hand, if he were zombie he'd have been forced to use the switch, since it would have been his only chance before dying. If that's the case, Epi has no power anymore (except possibly using his team's NK), and thus is less valuable than the other baddies, who all have other powers to use. If everyone feels ok with an Eloh lynch, I think it has the potential to hurt the baddies more. Hope that makes sense. On the other hand, if people are more sure about Epi or feel a lynch for him would yield more info that's a fair argument to make.

Now Russ, (I wrote ruff again initially, sorry if I keep calling you that through the game, I don't know why.. xD) you have giving me something to think about.

From what I understand, the Eloh suspicion comes from being connected to Epig? Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that is what I have made out from those that have brought her up.
If Epig is the zombie, I'm wondering whether people think it is worth keeping him around for a bit, because then we know who the killer is.

Kate - Do you only accept the baddie kill from the Zombie, or can anyone from the baddie team send it in and you'll accept?

If we know who the killer is, we have power over them, as civvies with the right powers can block Epig at night. So we could lynch someone else, Eloh you are suggesting, today. A civvie with the right power can block Epig tonight and we can see what goes down.

HOWEVER. Just because we think the zombie sent in the lynch switch doesn't mean the Epig is the zombie. Epig could be anyone on that team (if he is indeed baddie) and a teammate has just sent it in to protect their teammate.

So I have talked myself out of that one.

I think lynching Epig is still for the best.

I love to ramble.


LINKI - Boogs, boogs, boogs. You had to play the newb card, didn't you? People arn't saying your posts are weird because of familiarity. It's your style. Not many people pick up the game like you have done in their first outing.

But like I said posting last night, I have played a similar game before with BF that I wasn't very good at but I understand the mechanics.

Bf has a meeting today so he may not get a break and be able to reply til this afternoon when he is off work. But I just didnt want everyone wondering why he isn't replying

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

Looks like a lot of people are heading towards Epi being lynched. I think I would be okay with it, I'm not so keep on the idea of baddies using their power so early just to frame a civ. It seems like an awful waste of something that could be extremely useful later in the game to save a teammate or themselves. So I'm more set on the fact that he is a baddie who saved his own life with it. Or it was a freak circumstance where both epi and llama are protected from being lynched and it just went down the line to MP

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

OR the diamond sword could have saved him for some reason unbeknownst to us.

[Tangrowth]

Just popping in here for a second to respond to Russ -- that's an interesting train of thought. I think it's hard to say; Epig could be anyone on that team, and I would think that any person on that team could have switched it at the last minute. I'd be fine with either Epig or Elohcin, and honestly, Elohcin might even seem more baddie, but I think they're both connected equally -- I wouldn't say Epig makes Elohcin bad or Elohcin makes Epig bad. Both of their actions alone smell baddie, and then you have the lynch switch, and then you have the fact that they are easily connected. Baddies can mimic each other a lot as teammates, but usually only pairs of two, I've noticed. The Truth and Trice mimicked each other big time in Avant 2 and FH picked up on it.

Yes, Ambray/SoFi is right, all of what I'm saying is theory, it isn't 100% right just because I'm civvie. I can be wrong like anyone else. But I really don't think I am about Epig/Elohcin (I could be about S~V~S) and I think if you pay attention to what has been noted about both of them, there really is no better option for a lynch today.

I say we lynch Epignosis over Elohcin just because he was the one with the most votes yesterday and because llama already has 2 votes and Epig has 1. it really doesn't matter, but I think we need to decide on one of them and just go with it, so I say Epig. But it doesn't matter. You guys decide, I'll be back to vote later, because I really need to study without a distraction for a few hours, but I couldn't help coming back to look, lol.

Linki with SE: It makes absolutely NO sense the Diamond Sword saved him. Remember, the Diamond Sword has both a stop and a switch, and the baddies only have a switch. Since Diamond Sword has no BTSC, I incredibly doubt that role would use the switch when they cannot be sure anyone is civ or bad. I realize we can be paranoid, but I really think we don't have a better option than Epig. But I think you're right in that their hand was forced to use the lynch switch, even though they might not have wanted to.