Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[thellama73]

Are we allowed to discuss items in the game thread?

Sure, why not.

[Tangrowth]

3J: I don't care to spend much time defending myself. People can read. If they agree with your interpretation of my posts, they can vote for me. If they don't, they can vote elsewhere. I have better things to do than play D.

Roxy: I didn't purposely upset anyone. I tried to mitigate the upset feelings multiple times without revealing my ruse, only to see those attempts backfire. I said why I voted for Golden. Twice.

Blaming the victim much?

lmao how did we not lynch Epi today

So apparently you think Epi is bad. A logical conclusion. What else do you think?

birdwithteeth11 -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "Seems like normal BWT and I know he is very busy. Not sure what to make of him yet." I would feel slightly better about him due to his post content, but his vote for Golden cancels it out, so I'm still not sure what to make of him.

Ummmm...I didn't vote for Golden?

I voted for Bass.

Also, RIP Golden. When I get a chance, I'm going to go back and read how that lynch went down. Something about it smells fishy to me.

Oops! Sorry about that. I must have mixed your vote up with someone else's.

I'll have to amend my amended version.

[Tangrowth]

#1

In MovingPictures07's first painbow, he puts Golden in the golden category, and makes a strange observation on him, but uses the word transparent, and accuses Golden of not being so. Apparently, not being transparent is baddie behavior.

And here (in this "off-topic" post) MovingPictures07 offers a lengthy defense to his strategy this game, claiming that transparency is the key to success. Alrighty then.

First, you're twisting my words. I didn't say "not being transparent is baddie behavior" anywhere, but I do think Golden is usually an incredibly transparent player, so I found it odd that he seemed to be hiding something (in MY interpretation).

Second, so you disagree with me on transparency. Fair enough. You're allowed to disagree. What's your point?

[Epignosis]

3J: I don't care to spend much time defending myself. People can read. If they agree with your interpretation of my posts, they can vote for me. If they don't, they can vote elsewhere. I have better things to do than play D.

Roxy: I didn't purposely upset anyone. I tried to mitigate the upset feelings multiple times without revealing my ruse, only to see those attempts backfire. I said why I voted for Golden. Twice.

Blaming the victim much?

I'm not blaming anyone. Roxy said I was purposely upsetting you. I was not trying to upset you. Therefore I was not purposely upsetting anyone.

[Tangrowth]

RAINBOW SOCKMAN READS #4

sanmateo -- (#1 Very slight mafia read, #2 Very slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- ELEVATE! My top town read, I feel pretty confident that he is a genuine mafia hunter this game through reading his post content in real time today.

Sloonei -- (#1 Very slight civilian read, #2 Very slight mafia read, #3 Very slight civilian read) -- ELEVATE! His mafia hunting has been top notch and seems genuine. Up he goes. Don't feel confident enough to raise him above moderate though.

JaggedJimmyJay -- (#1 Very slight civilian read, #2, #3 no change) -- ELEVATE! I was skeptical for a little while despite my initial very slight civilian read of him, and still am to a lesser extent, but Jay seems to be genuinely mafia hunting and doing what he does best. Up he goes just a bit here. Very much looking forward to his thoughts tonight. Slight read seems appropriate, since Jay is a beast, and I could still see him being bad with the Bass vote today.
Roxy -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 no change, #3 Very slight civilian read) -- ELEVATE! In #3, I said: "I want to hear more from her, but her posts thus far have been opinionated in typical Roxy fashion. Pending more contributions I can get a more solid (and accurate) read on her... hopefully (though doubtful)." Now we've heard from more her, but I look forward to hearing even more from her.

birdwithteeth11 -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "Seems like normal BWT and I know he is very busy. Not sure what to make of him yet." I feel slightly better about him now that he has engaged more in the game, but I want to hear more.
Black Rock -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Very slight mafia read, #3 Very slight civilian read) -- In #3, I said: "BR answered my call to hear more and her subsequent contributions to the game have been in typical BR meta (she gets more active and assertive as the game progresses) and reasonable. Back up to very slightly civilian she goes." This still stands.
Dragon D. Luffy -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- DROP! Still think he reads genuine, but there's no denying that his vote makes him drop, and his fate could easily be mafia pending Epi's alignment. Appreciate that he ramped up the solid contributions though.

acrosstheaether -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: She has graced us with her presence, which appears relatively similar to RYM Day 1, in which she tends to lack confidence in any reads she may develop, so she nonchalantly does not bother to develop them, a la A Person for us Syndicate players (but perhaps not as extreme). She also said she is busy with uni which seems reasonable. I'm not sure what to make of her yet. Since she missed the vote, there is nothing to really analyze since then. This still stands.
Vompatti (Dom) -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "POST MORE, DOM. Dom likes to question people aggressively and often has some good insight, even if we don't often see eye to eye. In addition, in my first game ever, Dom pursued me like crazy and was right, and it started a beautiful but complicated mafia rivalry between us. I know he's capable of really contributing to this game, but I also know his life is crazy busy at the moment. So while I'm certain it's not an attempt to lay low on purpose... POST MORE." This still stands, but it seems he's been replaced by the most insane player on The Syndicate.
G-Man -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "No idea what the hell is going on with G-Man. I really don't know if he's cursed (which would be very strange in a Day 1 before any night actions) or if he's faking it to get a Day 1 free pass (if he is, then brilliant but super risky move on his part, but it seems unlikely). So ?????????" This still stands. His vote for Golden could be sketchy though.
Metalmarsh89 -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "MM seems to be playing in a manner that's relatively par for the course, though I'm glad to not see the self-vote this go-round. It's probably a stretch to say he "usually" self-votes but he has been known to do so out of frustration as well as to measure responses and put pressure on other players. Usually he does engage actively in discussion but can be a bit slow to develop reads; consequently, his Day 1 vote here doesn't surprise me, but I do wish he would have explained it more or withheld it to more accurately represent his feelings. I can't make heads or tails of MM yet." This largely still stands. His vote for Golden was sketchy, but then again, I could just as easily have seen civilian MM do it. Still no idea what to make of MM, thinking on it.
Turnip Head -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Very slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! His vote for Golden is a bit sketchy, and I'm just really unsure what to make of him. Back down to null read for him.

fingersplints -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- DROP! Dropped her down to very slightly mafia read based on gut interpretation of her posts and her inability to fully substantiate reads, but I could be way off base. Having reevaluated, this is incredibly, incredibly slight.
TinyBubbles -- (#1 and #2 No read or unsure, #3 Very slight mafia read) -- In #3, I said: "She's new not only to The Syndicate but to mafia in general, so I'm trying to keep that into consideration, but the declaration of intent to random vote set of MP ALARM BELLS OF RAGE, especially given how much has happened in this game. For now, I will give her the BotD, since I do realize this game is surely intimidating for a new-to-mafia player's second game ever, especially if that first game was extremely low key. But dropping her to my very slight mafia read is a prod to get into the game." This still stands.

Bass_the_Clever -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Very slight mafia read, #3 Slight mafia read) -- In #3, I said: "And down he goes, but only to the "slight" read level, since I'm still far from sure we're seeing a baddie Bass here. That said, I'm really putting the pressure on him now by making him my top mafia read at the moment. Good points: I feel he engaged me and the thread in what he is thinking more than he has in recent games. I hope he continues this in the future. Bad points: His throwing out my behavior as something to keep an eye on, as if to bandwagon. Not having any suspects (though this is par for the course). He finally started throwing out slight pings but only after I prodded him considerably, which lines up with meta, but makes me feel as though he's hiding something from me. He could be a civilian hiding something, but he shouldn't be, and I really want him to engage more." These feelings still stand, pending his opinions as well as Elo and Epi's alignments.

Epignosis -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Very slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! In theory, I could still see an out on him being civilian, but only when considering meta in that he plays a very mafia-like game regardless of alignment. That said, when actually analyzing his behavior, it appears incredibly deceptive and intentionally manipulative, designed to deceive. Golden, the only confirmed civilian, who also has an amazing mafia hunting ability, also said with 100% confidence that Epi is bad. Read remains strong even though I'm not 100% convinced (instead, just strongly convinced), so being honest with myself he is just very slightly above Elo, hence the distinction.

Elohcin -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! Fixated on me all game, then suddenly had opinions on a ton of players with no explanation, including "leaning civilian" on Golden. Then continues to subtly push heat on me until I had an emotional breakdown, upon which she says that both (1) the breakdown doesn't bode well for me yet (2) votes Golden with literally no explanation. Could it get any objectively more scummy than this?


For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

Dropping this here just in case I die, since I have to truly make up for lost time RL-wise. Highly doubt I'll be back before Night 1 ends. Of course, I say that now, but it's possible I'll be back anyway being the mafia addict I am. (Added just for you, Epi). :P

Sockman out!

Addendum: I moved Roxy up one segment.

Not sure I'll be back.

Since BWT demonstrated my error, my read of him has been updated.

[Sloonei]

I am finding much of Epignosis's behavior to be a bit stubborn and not the most conventionally townie activity I've seen, but I'm not quite sure I would label it as "scummy" just yet. I've never played with him before, obviously, so there's probably a lot I don't know, but so far I am still able to see his behavior as possibly being that of a townie.
That is not to say I have him as a town read, just that he's not my strongest suspect right now. He's be orange on a rainbow.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

[Sloonei]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd like to see what, if anything, he is able to make of his own behavior moving forward. If he's town, I would trust that he's been doing all this because he believes he can get clearer reads on people by forcing them to react to whatever he's doing. I could easily go either way on hom, depending on how things shake out.

[Epignosis]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd like to see what, if anything, he is able to make of his own behavior moving forward. If he's town, I would trust that he's been doing all this because he believes he can get clearer reads on people by forcing them to react to whatever he's doing. I could easily go either way on hom, depending on how things shake out.

What do you mean "depending on how things shake out?" What exactly would have to happen in order for you to solidify an opinion?

[Tangrowth]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd like to see what, if anything, he is able to make of his own behavior moving forward. If he's town, I would trust that he's been doing all this because he believes he can get clearer reads on people by forcing them to react to whatever he's doing. I could easily go either way on hom, depending on how things shake out.

What do you mean "depending on how things shake out?" What exactly would have to happen in order for you to solidify an opinion?

Clearly it's because he's a paprika shaker.

[Epignosis]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd like to see what, if anything, he is able to make of his own behavior moving forward. If he's town, I would trust that he's been doing all this because he believes he can get clearer reads on people by forcing them to react to whatever he's doing. I could easily go either way on hom, depending on how things shake out.

What do you mean "depending on how things shake out?" What exactly would have to happen in order for you to solidify an opinion?

Clearly it's because he's a paprika shaker.

Wait, that's from Blue's Clues, isn't it?

[Tangrowth]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd like to see what, if anything, he is able to make of his own behavior moving forward. If he's town, I would trust that he's been doing all this because he believes he can get clearer reads on people by forcing them to react to whatever he's doing. I could easily go either way on hom, depending on how things shake out.

What do you mean "depending on how things shake out?" What exactly would have to happen in order for you to solidify an opinion?

Clearly it's because he's a paprika shaker.

Wait, that's from Blue's Clues, isn't it?

I wouldn't know.

[Sloonei]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd like to see what, if anything, he is able to make of his own behavior moving forward. If he's town, I would trust that he's been doing all this because he believes he can get clearer reads on people by forcing them to react to whatever he's doing. I could easily go either way on hom, depending on how things shake out.

What do you mean "depending on how things shake out?" What exactly would have to happen in order for you to solidify an opinion?

I'd like to see how your reads take shape, who you vote for, how you act, and possibly whether you help catch any scum. All the usual Mafia stuff.

I am Paprika, yes

[Epignosis]

Mr. Salt and Mrs. Pepper's first born.

[Tangrowth]

Mr. Salt and Mrs. Pepper's first born.

Well, I'll be damned.

Good thing for Sloonei that socks don't like paprika.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Wow, Blue's Clues. I used to watch that like... 15 years ago?

[Black Rock]

Wow, Blue's Clues. I used to watch that like... 15 years ago?

Oh my I feel old, my first born watched it like 14-15 years ago.

[Elohcin]

Wow, Blue's Clues. I used to watch that like... 15 years ago?

I feel so old. Hey Epi! "HOME! HOME" Our son watched it when he was like 7-8 months old. We we horrible parents in that he would wake up at 5am every morning. So, we kept a pack-n-play full of toys in the living room and would turn on Blues Clues or Baby Einstein and then we would lay back down for just a little more sleep. There was one episode of Blues Clues, Simon would clap his hands and say, "HOME, HOME" with Steve. Simon will be eight in July.

Now. I know many of you are looking at me for tomorrow's lynch. I really don't know how to depend myself b/c I am getting very vague answers as to why I am suspicious. Please, someone (other than MP), as the new day begins, if you are still looking to vote me, just plainly and clearly tell me what I did wrong so I can defend myself. I say someone other than MP, b/c I have heard him rant and rave about me enough already and I think his emotional crazies are getting you all in an uproar about me and I am wondering if you are just going off of that or if you have your own true reasons. Reread me if you must. We will only be on Day 2, there shouldn't be much. But please, give me something to defend against. I don't want to hear my vote was weird or I believed Epi about MP lies. Why was my vote weird? I never said I believed Epi for sure, I said he may be on to something b/c I have experienced similar circumstances. Anyway....if you are going to lynch me, you can at least help me out by telling me WHY?

Linki BR

[Tangrowth]

Vague answers? Are you serious?

You suspected me blatantly. You suspected NO ONE else. Then said that my emotional outburst didn't help me, so you clearly still suspected me. Then you voted for someone for whom you had a previously unexplained civilian read, which you still refuse to explain.

There is absolutely no fathomable situation in which you are a civilian.

[Tangrowth]

That post gave me a good laugh, Elo, I will admit.

[Tangrowth]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough.

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

We haven't seen an Elo and Epi mafia duo since Champions '13, yeah? About time we saw it again, I suppose.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

My view on Epi:

He spent the entire day phase picking on me and MP. On me because of my posting style, and on MP because of his response times. He later admitted that he was only messing up with MP, and implied that it was the same thing with me (when he said that he wouldn't miss a chance to mess with new players). That means that three of us spent a lot of time and energy on something that was barely productive at all. Now, maybe Epi wanted to produce some reaction from the two of us and others, and maybe he did, but as a whole this is an incredibly costly and inefficient playstyle, specially since his vote ended up being completely unrelated to what he had done until then (and his reasoning for the vote, only provived after the phase was over, was simply OMGUS).

Normally I'd simply call him mafia and move on. But after seeing all the people talking about how Epi always plays like a baddieI think I understand what the deal is with him.

This guy is a player who does not play like a townie. Ever. If he is mafia, he is scummy. If he is town, he is scummy. No matter what, he will play in a way that makes him seen suspicious. He will spend a lot of energy going in directions that make no sense and seem to be more for trolling than anything, he won't bother to justify his votes in a way that others would find acceptable... he just gives no fucks, about anything, ever.

This is the kind of guy that makes it tempting to policy lynch early. I can't justify a player like this living long. The next day phase is pretty much guaranteed to have a good part of its discussion on him, and if we allow it he is going to push it in useless directions again. We need to either figure him out soon or kill him. Or both.

But precisely because he is so hard to read, I can't put him on top of my scumlist right now. There are better suspects, people who seem to be easier to read, and who I, and others, are reading as mafia. Right now for me, those are Elo and Bass (I'll elaborate on why later). If I had to vote now, I'd pick one of them before picking Epi. Like I said before, we can't really say Epi jumped on a winning bandwagon, when there were just 2 votes on him when he voted (my vote was made at the exact same time). And we can't really say he wasn't engaged, since the problem instead was the fact that he was engaged in a complete useless way. While Elo and Bass feel more like players who are not commiting to anything and are just jumping on bandwagons. They are more like textbook baddies, while Epi is just weird.

Anyway, I realize I'm trying to read a meta of someone I've never played a game with before. There's a good chance this post is full of shit, so someone call me out if that's the case. I'll try to be more careful before deducing metas of players I don't know this time around. But that doesn't mean I can't try.

[Tangrowth]

This guy is a player who does not play like a townie. Ever. If he is mafia, he is scummy. If he is town, he is scummy. No matter what, he will play in a way that makes him seen suspicious. He will spend a lot of energy going in directions that make no sense and seem to be more for trolling than anything, he won't bother to justify his votes in a way that others would find acceptable... he just gives no fucks, about anything, ever.

This is the kind of guy that makes it tempting to policy lynch early. I can't justify a player like this living long. The next day phase is pretty much guaranteed to have a good part of its discussion on him, and if we allow it he is going to push it in useless directions again. We need to either figure him out soon or kill him. Or both.

This is 100% accurate.

That said, he has changed up his approach to the game considerably over time, and continues to do so, but it still generally follows your description.

[Tangrowth]

Also, if Elo flips mafia, I'm almost positive he's a teammate with her. I usually blind myself to Epi, but having known him for a long time now, I think he's being intentionally manipulative as a mafia, not as a civilian.

[Elohcin]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough.

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

We haven't seen an Elo and Epi mafia duo since Champions '13, yeah? About time we saw it again, I suppose.

I am not a baddie. I am not on a team with Epi. And MP, there was another player (I think Golden) who said he was wary of me b/c I had opinions on ALL the players. SO which was it? Only you, or all the players?

[Elohcin]

MP, think about it. DO you think I would agree with Epi in the thread about you if I were Mafia with him? No way. I would steer clear of that.

[Tangrowth]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough.

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

We haven't seen an Elo and Epi mafia duo since Champions '13, yeah? About time we saw it again, I suppose.

I am not a baddie. I am not on a team with Epi. And MP, there was another player (I think Golden) who said he was wary of me b/c I had opinions on ALL the players. SO which was it? Only you, or all the players?

Look, I've already said this, and so have several other players. Either you aren't reading the thread or you're desperately trying to save yourself from a certain lynch. The latter is incredibly likely.

If you need me to tell you what you did, then clearly there's something wrong.

You're mafia precisely because of how you have acted throughout the entire game.

[Tangrowth]

MP, think about it. DO you think I would agree with Epi in the thread about you if I were Mafia with him? No way. I would steer clear of that.

WIFOM

You're bad. I'm 100% sure. Absolutely.

[Tangrowth]

Elo, are you serious?

You said "leaning civ" on Golden, without backing it up.

You voiced suspicions of ONLY me. It's true, I just looked through your posts. The closest you got with anyone else was "not sure". Then suddenly, you come in, after my emotional breakdown, and say that the emotional breakdown does NOT bode well for me, but for some unexplained reason you are giving me the BotD so that I can cool off, even though I visibly have cooled off for quite some time. Then you vote Golden for no explanation.

And you're trying to argue that you don't look bad?

[Tangrowth]

I don't know about you, but I think Elo is civ civ civ hehe

Anyway, I am leaning civ on Epi, Golden, MM, Splints, and Jimmy. I am not sure about San, Sloo, DDL, MP, and BR.

[Marmot]

I don't think Elohcin has any choice but to be a baddie right now.

[Elohcin]

This guy is a player who does not play like a townie. Ever. If he is mafia, he is scummy. If he is town, he is scummy. No matter what, he will play in a way that makes him seen suspicious. He will spend a lot of energy going in directions that make no sense and seem to be more for trolling than anything, he won't bother to justify his votes in a way that others would find acceptable... he just gives no fucks, about anything, ever.

This is the kind of guy that makes it tempting to policy lynch early. I can't justify a player like this living long. The next day phase is pretty much guaranteed to have a good part of its discussion on him, and if we allow it he is going to push it in useless directions again. We need to either figure him out soon or kill him. Or both.

This is 100% accurate.

That said, he has changed up his approach to the game considerably over time, and continues to do so, but it still generally follows your description.

This makes me think DDL is bad, actually. (He is somewhat right about Epi's game play. But, I think Epi enjoys playing civ too.) I think DDL is taking advantage of Epi's playstyle in order to lynch a civ.

linki...GOLDEN was my number two suspect and I voted him. You just said a couple posts up that I didn't have my eye on Golden and then voted for him. So for you and for whoever say my vote for golden was weird...

[Tangrowth]

I don't think Elohcin has any choice but to be a baddie right now.

Yeah, not sure why I'm even talking to her. I'ma quit now. :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Elohcin, i wasn't vague at all. I explained in detail why i didn't like your vote. I can't reference the post on my phone, but it shouldn't be hard for you to find. Your name is underlined in it.

[Epignosis]

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

You are not.

[Epignosis]

My view on Epi:

He spent the entire day phase picking on me and MP. On me because of my posting style, and on MP because of his response times. He later admitted that he was only messing up with MP, and implied that it was the same thing with me (when he said that he wouldn't miss a chance to mess with new players).

Not the case. My suspicion of you was genuine. However, I was satisfied with the response I waited so patiently to hear.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

My view on Epi:

He spent the entire day phase picking on me and MP. On me because of my posting style, and on MP because of his response times. He later admitted that he was only messing up with MP, and implied that it was the same thing with me (when he said that he wouldn't miss a chance to mess with new players).

Not the case. My suspicion of you was genuine. However, I was satisfied with the response I waited so patiently to hear.

Well that makes you a little better in my eyes, then. One of the reasons I was finding it strange is that you hadn't bothered to reply to that post before.

I still think your pursue of MP was a giant waste of time for everyone involved. Did you intend to accomplish anything with that, or was it just for the lulz?

MP, think about it. DO you think I would agree with Epi in the thread about you if I were Mafia with him? No way. I would steer clear of that.

This reeks of WIFOM. Why can't two mafia players agree about anything, ever? Specially when it's a small thing (a suspicion of a player that doesn't even end up becoming a vote)?

This guy is a player who does not play like a townie. Ever. If he is mafia, he is scummy. If he is town, he is scummy. No matter what, he will play in a way that makes him seen suspicious. He will spend a lot of energy going in directions that make no sense and seem to be more for trolling than anything, he won't bother to justify his votes in a way that others would find acceptable... he just gives no fucks, about anything, ever.

This is the kind of guy that makes it tempting to policy lynch early. I can't justify a player like this living long. The next day phase is pretty much guaranteed to have a good part of its discussion on him, and if we allow it he is going to push it in useless directions again. We need to either figure him out soon or kill him. Or both.

This is 100% accurate.

That said, he has changed up his approach to the game considerably over time, and continues to do so, but it still generally follows your description.

This makes me think DDL is bad, actually. (He is somewhat right about Epi's game play. But, I think Epi enjoys playing civ too.) I think DDL is taking advantage of Epi's playstyle in order to lynch a civ.

linki...GOLDEN was my number two suspect and I voted him. You just said a couple posts up that I didn't have my eye on Golden and then voted for him. So for you and for whoever say my vote for golden was weird...

I don't think we should lynch him now (though day 2 might change that). Policy lynches when in face of better targets are just stupid. I think he is a dangerous players and that we should figure him out soon. For instance, if the cop is reading this, I'd say he should investigate Epi asap (though this game doesn't allow cop reveals so the usefulness of that is limited). But leaving him alive for the rest of the game while still not being sure of his alignment sounds risky.

[Epignosis]

This guy is a player who does not play like a townie. Ever. If he is mafia, he is scummy. If he is town, he is scummy. No matter what, he will play in a way that makes him seen suspicious. He will spend a lot of energy going in directions that make no sense and seem to be more for trolling than anything, he won't bother to justify his votes in a way that others would find acceptable... he just gives no fucks, about anything, ever.

This is the kind of guy that makes it tempting to policy lynch early. I can't justify a player like this living long. The next day phase is pretty much guaranteed to have a good part of its discussion on him, and if we allow it he is going to push it in useless directions again. We need to either figure him out soon or kill him. Or both.

This is 100% accurate.

That said, he has changed up his approach to the game considerably over time, and continues to do so, but it still generally follows your description.

You are a Ph.D candidate in accounting and it would seem you have no concept of what "100%" is.

Go read me in Clue. Or Super Meat Boy*, since you hosted that. Would you say my play in either of those was "scummy?" If so, then your comment, "This is 100% accurate" is nonsense.

*For anyone who actually looks this up, I was cursed phase 1 to sing.

But I say there is no such thing as "playing like a townie." Throwing people off guard through deceit and manipulation is every bit a strategy for a civilian, especially when the Mafia usually try to "look civvie." My approach places people in uncomfortable positions, and in those uncomfortable positions, some truth leaks out.

There is no prescriptivist civilian play. And I'll maintain this position until I die (in real life).

[Epignosis]

Question for the crowd who believes there is such a thing as "townie play" and "baddie play:" Is deciding that someone's lynch during the Night phase a foregone conclusion on Night 1 a civilian play or a Mafia play?

Saying this:

Look, I've already said this, and so have several other players. Either you aren't reading the thread or you're desperately trying to save yourself from a certain lynch. The latter is incredibly likely.

If you need me to tell you what you did, then clearly there's something wrong.

You're mafia precisely because of how you have acted throughout the entire game.

Before any kill has happened, and before any Day 2 discussion has occurred, MP says this.

Statements like this and all the 100% silliness on Day 2 are very unlike MP in any scenario. He usually qualifies the hell out of his posts. I am scratching my head, because him seriously thinking he's pegged two out of four Mafia on Night 1 makes him look like an arrogant fool.

Now- and this is me talking- I don't mind arrogance and I don't mind some foolishness. But it's an art.

The underlined is an empty dilemma. I can attest that Elohcin is not neglecting the thread, so, according to MP, the only possibility is that she is "desperately trying to save yourself from a certain lynch." Well...who says her lynch is certain? Does no one outside of three or four people have a voice in her fate? That's incredibly presumptuous.

And if she does turn out bad, MP has already decided that I'm next. So here we have someone who can't read me OR Elohcin for shit deciding on the basis of Day 1 that we are "100%" "certain" teammates.

MP, think about it. DO you think I would agree with Epi in the thread about you if I were Mafia with him? No way. I would steer clear of that.

WIFOM

You're bad. I'm 100% sure. Absolutely.

Arrogant foolishness.

Doesn't suit you MP.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Alright, before the night phase ends, imma drop those just in case I die.

I wrote a read on Bass right before the phase end. My view barely changed, so I'm not doing it again (screw rainbow lists). His vote was as meaningless as it could be so that's no data to add. Here is it for those who didn't see it.

bass: another player who talked a lot about MP (if MP is town, then I swear there must be a fabricated wagon on him because a lot of people are ONLY talking about him). Seems to be going back and forth between suspecting MP, then saying he isn't suspecting anyone. Seems afraid to show commitment. That's pretty scummy imo.

The main point he is likely mafia and town should interrogate the fuck out of him this day. NEXT.

My other suspect is Elo.

She is easily the fluffiest player in the game. That itself isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is that she gives me the impression that she uses the fluff to avoid saying something useful. Like, every time she starts making a read on someone, a wall of fluff comes right after and we end up with a post that has one barely useful line and 20 lines of fluff. A good example is this post:

this might be called a slight backtrack. he doesn't understand TH's methods but grants some degree of validity to the assertion that he is off-meta in this game. i wouldn't know either way about his meta. this is a very minor ping if a ping at all though.

Off-perception of my meta. I don't think the idea that I'm off-meta is accurate, but I can at least understand that people find the games when I'm loudest most memorable, and I don't think genuinely perceiving me that way is unusual.

I'm glad to see TH is here. I want him to respond to some of the points I've made.

I know I have only played one game with you, but I think you are acting more reserved this game for sure. And, I do like TH's case on you so far.

it's important i think that MP has ranked DDL as his #1 town read (more than once). he hasn't just defended DDL blankly with very vague comments like Bass and others did. he made a bold Day 1 assertion that the thread's Public Enemy #1 was his biggest town read. and those of you who criticized MP for raising the possibility of a WIFOM gambit re: G-Man, i ask this:

what does a mafia MP07 gain from taking this strong town stance on DDL throughout this phase? it's an important distinction -- vague or soft defenses are legitimately suspicious, but MP's hasn't been that at all. one might assert that he is protecting a mafia team mate, but then the theory immediately becomes more far-fetched (because two players are being called mafia together before either of them has flipped). if someone feels MP OR DDL is mafia, then that player must grant that a mafia MP would then be making every effort to prevent the lynch of a townie on Day 1. and that would be definitive WIFOM.

Maybe the "new MP" is the kind of player that unreservedly defends his partners on day 1 instead of throwing them under the bus on day 1 like he used to

I have seen Epi catch people on timing issues/RL lies before. I have seen players lie to me about RL issues and lie to the thread about RL issues. IN BTSC in other games, I have been encouraged to lie about RL issues in order to make myself appear more civ. I do think that is wrong. Unlike Epi, I will bring up RL. I can't separate it so easily. I love my family, my kids, and I want to share them with whoever will care to listen. BUT, I will not lie about them or my RL issues in order to appear more civ. Okay...off my soap box. So I do think Epi could be on to something. And b/c of that, maybe I was onto something too with MP's cheerful attitude. Maybe he was very excited to be a baddie in his first game back on the syndicate

I want to vote either DDL or MP at this juncture.

However, I would like to know

what the other players are thinking about these two.

I think you shanked MP.

I actually think he could be bad, but I'm not going to vote for him after that. I think I'll likely vote for you, your attitude reminds me a lot of the way you took to Blindfaeth in keeler.

RL stuff should be off limits as far as gameplay goes.

I don't understand. You think MP is bad but won't vote for him because Epi called him a liar?

And then that last quote there. I think I would be okay voting Golden or MP today.

Most of this site's regulars have been, unfortunately, blending together for me so far, though I'm starting to get better at distinguishing y'all individually. I'm sure you're all having the same trouble with us newbies. It's hard to learn new names and personalities while also trying to decide which of those are honest or not. BUT right now I think my top suspects are Bass_the_Clever, Elohcin, and Golden (roughly in that order), but nothing feels too firm at the moment.

You say this, but you give no reasons as to why you think I could be bad. I understand how you can be having a hard time distinguishing between those of us that are new to you, but I think it is telling that you are only eyeing those of us that are new to you. What I am saying is.....I think you are jumping the gun. I think you are eyeing us just b/c you don't know. I encourage you to take your time and read more of what I have to say before throwing my name into the mix just b/c you don't know me. FWIW, this does not make me eye you.

This happens to be the first post where she voices some kind of suspicion against Golden. Now good luck trying to find the main point of it. She says something about how Golden is being more reserved than usual. Then she talks about MP and Epi. Then she fluffs. Then she quotes a post of Black Rock about Golden, implies she is about to say something about it, but doesn't. And just says she might vote Golden or MP.

The next time she mentions Golden is here:

Anyway....all this to say that MP's emotional crazies don't help him look better. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for today so he can calm down and I can be a better judge of his alignment tomorrow. I will vote Golden today. I feel kind of bad doing so b/c I voted him early in the last game I played with him and he was my "mafia" husband I needed to find and gain BTSC with. And I think he would have been a very cool BTSC partner. I hate it b/c if I knew I had until the end of night to submit a name, I would have picked him as he was suspicious of me, but instead I picked another and got played the whole game. Oh how different that game could have been Golden if only I knew I had to the end of the night period. I blame Epi for not being clear

"imma vote Golden. btw here's a wall of fluff telling how bad I'm feeling about voting Golden. Pay no attention to the fact I'm not even bothering to explain why I'm voting Golden."

Then she votes Golden as the 5th person in the bandwagon, and that's it. We are yet to find out why the fuck she did it.

So as a whole, it feels like her posts lack some kind of direction. They are a bunch of disconnected thoughts lumped together, occasionally with some read on someone that lacks any justification or development, followed by a shitload of fluff. It doesn't feel like she is having any trains of thought in this game. Which would be a mafia sign, since mafia wants to fake trains of thought.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Alright, before the night phase ends, imma drop those just in case I die.

I wrote a read on Bass right before the phase end. My view barely changed, so I'm not doing it again (screw rainbow lists). His vote was as meaningless as it could be so that's no data to add. Here is it for those who didn't see it.

bass: another player who talked a lot about MP (if MP is town, then I swear there must be a fabricated wagon on him because a lot of people are ONLY talking about him). Seems to be going back and forth between suspecting MP, then saying he isn't suspecting anyone. Seems afraid to show commitment. That's pretty scummy imo.

The main point he is likely mafia and town should interrogate the fuck out of him this day. NEXT.

My other suspect is Elo.

She is easily the fluffiest player in the game. That itself isn't a bad thing. The bad thing is that she gives me the impression that she uses the fluff to avoid saying something useful. Like, every time she starts making a read on someone, a wall of fluff comes right after and we end up with a post that has one barely useful line and 20 lines of fluff. A good example is this post:

this might be called a slight backtrack. he doesn't understand TH's methods but grants some degree of validity to the assertion that he is off-meta in this game. i wouldn't know either way about his meta. this is a very minor ping if a ping at all though.

Off-perception of my meta. I don't think the idea that I'm off-meta is accurate, but I can at least understand that people find the games when I'm loudest most memorable, and I don't think genuinely perceiving me that way is unusual.

I'm glad to see TH is here. I want him to respond to some of the points I've made.

I know I have only played one game with you, but I think you are acting more reserved this game for sure. And, I do like TH's case on you so far.

it's important i think that MP has ranked DDL as his #1 town read (more than once). he hasn't just defended DDL blankly with very vague comments like Bass and others did. he made a bold Day 1 assertion that the thread's Public Enemy #1 was his biggest town read. and those of you who criticized MP for raising the possibility of a WIFOM gambit re: G-Man, i ask this:

what does a mafia MP07 gain from taking this strong town stance on DDL throughout this phase? it's an important distinction -- vague or soft defenses are legitimately suspicious, but MP's hasn't been that at all. one might assert that he is protecting a mafia team mate, but then the theory immediately becomes more far-fetched (because two players are being called mafia together before either of them has flipped). if someone feels MP OR DDL is mafia, then that player must grant that a mafia MP would then be making every effort to prevent the lynch of a townie on Day 1. and that would be definitive WIFOM.

Maybe the "new MP" is the kind of player that unreservedly defends his partners on day 1 instead of throwing them under the bus on day 1 like he used to

I have seen Epi catch people on timing issues/RL lies before. I have seen players lie to me about RL issues and lie to the thread about RL issues. IN BTSC in other games, I have been encouraged to lie about RL issues in order to make myself appear more civ. I do think that is wrong. Unlike Epi, I will bring up RL. I can't separate it so easily. I love my family, my kids, and I want to share them with whoever will care to listen. BUT, I will not lie about them or my RL issues in order to appear more civ. Okay...off my soap box. So I do think Epi could be on to something. And b/c of that, maybe I was onto something too with MP's cheerful attitude. Maybe he was very excited to be a baddie in his first game back on the syndicate

I want to vote either DDL or MP at this juncture.

However, I would like to know

what the other players are thinking about these two.

I think you shanked MP.

I actually think he could be bad, but I'm not going to vote for him after that. I think I'll likely vote for you, your attitude reminds me a lot of the way you took to Blindfaeth in keeler.

RL stuff should be off limits as far as gameplay goes.

I don't understand. You think MP is bad but won't vote for him because Epi called him a liar?

And then that last quote there. I think I would be okay voting Golden or MP today.

Most of this site's regulars have been, unfortunately, blending together for me so far, though I'm starting to get better at distinguishing y'all individually. I'm sure you're all having the same trouble with us newbies. It's hard to learn new names and personalities while also trying to decide which of those are honest or not. BUT right now I think my top suspects are Bass_the_Clever, Elohcin, and Golden (roughly in that order), but nothing feels too firm at the moment.

You say this, but you give no reasons as to why you think I could be bad. I understand how you can be having a hard time distinguishing between those of us that are new to you, but I think it is telling that you are only eyeing those of us that are new to you. What I am saying is.....I think you are jumping the gun. I think you are eyeing us just b/c you don't know. I encourage you to take your time and read more of what I have to say before throwing my name into the mix just b/c you don't know me. FWIW, this does not make me eye you.

This happens to be the first post where she voices some kind of suspicion against Golden. Now good luck trying to find the main point of it. She says something about how Golden is being more reserved than usual. Then she talks about MP and Epi. Then she fluffs. Then she quotes a post of Black Rock about Golden, implies she is about to say something about it, but doesn't. And just says she might vote Golden or MP.

The next time she mentions Golden is here:

Anyway....all this to say that MP's emotional crazies don't help him look better. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for today so he can calm down and I can be a better judge of his alignment tomorrow. I will vote Golden today. I feel kind of bad doing so b/c I voted him early in the last game I played with him and he was my "mafia" husband I needed to find and gain BTSC with. And I think he would have been a very cool BTSC partner. I hate it b/c if I knew I had until the end of night to submit a name, I would have picked him as he was suspicious of me, but instead I picked another and got played the whole game. Oh how different that game could have been Golden if only I knew I had to the end of the night period. I blame Epi for not being clear

"imma vote Golden. btw here's a wall of fluff telling how bad I'm feeling about voting Golden. Pay no attention to the fact I'm not even bothering to explain why I'm voting Golden."

Then she votes Golden as the 5th person in the bandwagon, and that's it. We are yet to find out why the fuck she did it.

So as a whole, it feels like her posts lack some kind of direction. They are a bunch of disconnected thoughts lumped together, occasionally with some read on someone that lacks any justification or development, followed by a shitload of fluff. It doesn't feel like she is having any trains of thought in this game. Which would be a mafia sign, since mafia wants to fake trains of thought.

Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.

[thellama73]

Day 2

Economics has been called "the dismal science." After last night, it's not hard to see why.

Throughout the night, most of the economists beavered away producing things, and as a result times are BOOMING! But a prosperous economy is small consolation to those not around to enjoy it. Disproving the theory that two wrongs don't make a right, MovingPictures was having such a bad day that he got the heck out of dodge just before something terrible happened. When he came back, some people were dead, and most of the booze was gone.


Metalmarsh89 has been killed by John Maynard Keynes.
Epignosis has been killed by Adam Smith.

My, what a bloodthirsty bunch.

You have 48 hours to lynch one of these vicious killers.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So Adam Smith targetted Malthus and stole his kill, if I'm getting it correctly. That means we have a townie who knows who the serial killer is. Awesome.

Btw, no role reveals on death? Really? Are games here always like this?

[thellama73]

So Adam Smith targetted Malthus and stole his kill, if I'm getting it correctly. That means we have a townie who knows who the serial killer is. Awesome.

Btw, no role reveals on death? Really? Are games here always like this?

Night killed roles are not revealed. Lynches are. You folks at other sites sure have silly rules.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I think you are the ones who have the silly rules. I never heard of this thing before and I've seen mafia games in multiple places.

We even have a name for the mafia role who can (usually a limited number of times) kill a person without revealing their role. It's called a janitor.

[thellama73]

I think you are the ones who have the silly rules. I never heard of this thing before and I've seen mafia games in multiple places.

We even have a name for the mafia role who can (usually a limited number of times) kill a person without revealing their role. It's called a janitor.

I have much to learn from you, o traveler from an arcane land.

[Elohcin]

Interesting evening. RIP Epi and MM.

@DDL, I bet Mafia is a lot easier when you know whose been killed.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.

Saying you want to keep an eye on someone is pretty much the same thing as suspecting them. You're not directly accusing them of being mafia, but you think there's something worth watching out for.

But you never pursued it, or anything for that matter. You just stayed neutral until you were in danger of getting lynched and you had to put a self defense vote.

Is that how you always play? I'm saying this because I remember someone mentioning you always play like this.

[Epignosis]

Adam Smith can kiss my laissez-faire ass.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Interesting evening. RIP Epi and MM.

@DDL, I bet Mafia is a lot easier when you know whose been killed.