Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[Sloonei]

Well that ends a big portion of the discourse. I'm also not used to unrevealed roles, or at least alignments, but I dig the new style and will get used to it.
Bass remains my primary suspect with Elohcin close behind. I'll develop more reads as the day progresses, I hope. I won't be very active until Sunday, though, as I mentioned earlier.

For now I'll ask what, if anything, people have to say about these two nightkills? If there is anything to be made of them. The Epi kill seems to have been carried out by somebody who had been eying him all game, I'd assume. Or we can wifom that all day.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ooops, my login expired and when I went to post the stuff I wrote was gone. Lemme try again.

Interesting evening. RIP Epi and MM.

@DDL, I bet Mafia is a lot easier when you know whose been killed.

Yes, but then all you have to do is buff the mafia team in other ways. Where I play, mafia is usually equipped with better abilities than town. They have bulletproofs, lynch redirectors, superkills, ultrakills, pupetters, people who are immune to cops and/or lie detectors, etc

[Golden]

I really love how different this is for you newbies, because I can really see how much it is exciting but challenging which is neat. I hope you grow to love some of the differences here - while of course bringing your own differences here!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I really love how different this is for you newbies, because I can really see how much it is exciting but challenging which is neat. I hope you grow to love some of the differences here - while of course bringing your own differences here!

I don't mind this new rule to be honest. It adds some of challenge.

I think it's interesting how you guys seem to have a very distinct mafia culture. There are a lot stuff that I see everywhere except here, or that I only see here. For example, forbiding cops from revealing their reads.

[Tangrowth]

Good riddance, Epi. Love you, man, but clearly Adam Smith thought you were bad. Cheers, Mr. Smith.

RIP MM. A bit of a weird kill, since MM has a relatively high propensity to be lynched in games, but I suppose he didn't have any real heat headed his way just yet, so it makes sense I suppose.

I'm looking very solidly at Elo today. I'll consider other options, and Bass is my #2, but I frankly can't see changing my mind. Elo needs to go.

Sloonei, what makes you put Bass above Elo?

[Tangrowth]

I really love how different this is for you newbies, because I can really see how much it is exciting but challenging which is neat. I hope you grow to love some of the differences here - while of course bringing your own differences here!

Also, this.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.

Saying you want to keep an eye on someone is pretty much the same thing as suspecting them. You're not directly accusing them of being mafia, but you think there's something worth watching out for.

But you never pursued it, or anything for that matter. You just stayed neutral until you were in danger of getting lynched and you had to put a self defense vote.

Is that how you always play? I'm saying this because I remember someone mentioning you always play like this.

Why would I pursue someone I'm just keeping an eye on. The way I play is with my gut.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So many strange new rules! Nothing wrong with that. This one (not revealing night kill roles) affects me immensely though. I'm going to have to think about how to approach Day 2, because my style has been largely nullified.

Again, no complaint. It'll be an interesting challenge.

[fingersplints]

I've been playing on other sites with night kill roles being revealed for a while now, so it's gotten pretty normal for me l. The game is not easier with roles revealed in these sites because you don't even know what roles are available. I just played a game where role claiming is allowed as well- so not knowing the roles is especially hard because the mafia have to make up roles to claim and you have to see what you believe. It's been fun!
I just played my first game with a janitor! It's fun to see some of the role differences

RIPIYWG Epi and MetalMarsh

[Black Rock]

I've been playing on other sites with night kill roles being revealed for a while now, so it's gotten pretty normal for me l. The game is not easier with roles revealed in these sites because you don't even know what roles are available. I just played a game where role claiming is allowed as well- so not knowing the roles is especially hard because the mafia have to make up roles to claim and you have to see what you believe. It's been fun!
I just played my first game with a janitor! It's fun to see some of the role differences

RIPIYWG Epi and MetalMarsh

Anyone can claim a role in Recruitment Mafia, doesn't mean they're civvie.

I like the idea, not knowing the roles does keep it difficult and leaves room for role claims.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

actually i hadn't realized the kills are specified by the targeting role too, so that helps. we know MM was killed by the mafia team, so that's something i can work with.

[sanmateo]

the fact that there's no reveal for nk's is gonna make this so much harder

Wow, Blue's Clues. I used to watch that like... 15 years ago?

I feel so old. Hey Epi! "HOME! HOME" Our son watched it when he was like 7-8 months old. We we horrible parents in that he would wake up at 5am every morning. So, we kept a pack-n-play full of toys in the living room and would turn on Blues Clues or Baby Einstein and then we would lay back down for just a little more sleep. There was one episode of Blues Clues, Simon would clap his hands and say, "HOME, HOME" with Steve. Simon will be eight in July.

Now. I know many of you are looking at me for tomorrow's lynch. I really don't know how to depend myself b/c I am getting very vague answers as to why I am suspicious. Please, someone (other than MP), as the new day begins, if you are still looking to vote me, just plainly and clearly tell me what I did wrong so I can defend myself. I say someone other than MP, b/c I have heard him rant and rave about me enough already and I think his emotional crazies are getting you all in an uproar about me and I am wondering if you are just going off of that or if you have your own true reasons. Reread me if you must. We will only be on Day 2, there shouldn't be much. But please, give me something to defend against. I don't want to hear my vote was weird or I believed Epi about MP lies. Why was my vote weird? I never said I believed Epi for sure, I said he may be on to something b/c I have experienced similar circumstances. Anyway....if you are going to lynch me, you can at least help me out by telling me WHY?

Linki BR

i cant answer for mp's read on you and i even posted something about it few pages ago becaus he was not being accurate in his posts about you, but i already said why i think you are bad. You clearly said in a post early on a day 1 that you thought golden was a civilian read or something to that effect and then later on after building a whole case against mp you went and voted for golden without ever even hinting why your opinion on him had changed, i think that if either you or mp flip scum the other one should be lynched next.

i already said this a few times tho, are yall skipping over my posts? people do that in rym and i hate it

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i already said this a few times tho, are yall skipping over my posts? people do that in rym and i hate it

i think we noobs are going to have to scream a little louder to ensure our contributions are noticed. i don't think my stuff is getting read by most others either.

[Tangrowth]

I'm pretty sure Elo isn't skipping posts, but genuinely is trying to save herself in any possible way. She's done this before.

[Tangrowth]

That said, it's possible she just hasn't been able to keep up, I suppose. There have been a lot of posts. I know even I've missed a couple of posts myself. I just can't fathom how she's missed literally every explanation of the accusations against her by multiple people.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i reviewed all of MM's posts to see what insights i could dig up. and i came up with very little. he cast some degree of suspicion upon all of these people:

DDL
Golden (town)
Bass
JJJ
MP
Elohcin

but didn't go hard after any of them. he made that one big post against MP for the word "transparency" towards the end of Night 1 i guess. i don't think that's very meaningful.

[Tangrowth]

Any RYMers able to provide insight regarding aether? I have no read on her. I remember her being quiet in early parts of the game when I played, but since she got NKed N1, I haven't really seen her in action as the game progresses.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Honestly I don't see much point in analysing why mafia killed someone. That's WIFOM trap.

And if we apply Occam's Razor, the fact is that Metalmarsh was a player who wasn't really attracting suspicions from anyone, and was being fairly active, voicing suspicions on others and showing interest in the game. That's pretty much the kind of player mafia likes to get rid of.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Honestly I don't see much point in analysing why mafia killed someone. That's WIFOM trap.

And if we apply Occam's Razor, the fact is that Metalmarsh was a player who wasn't really attracting suspicions from anyone, and was being fairly active, voicing suspicions on others and showing interest in the game. That's pretty much the kind of player mafia likes to get rid of.

mafia kills can be used to mislead or manipulate (frames, etc...), so one has to take them with a grain of salt. i still think it'd be wasteful to fail to even examine them though, because sometimes mafiosos just kill players who threaten them. i refuse to allow that to happen unchecked.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

I think its best if Adam Smith plays it smarter then what you are suggesting if he pretty much outs himself by tunneling its going to paint a huge target for the mafia to go after.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

I think its best if Adam Smith plays it smarter then what you are suggesting if he pretty much outs himself by tunneling its going to paint a huge target for the mafia to go after.

you don't think a dead serial killer would be worth that risk?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Any RYMers able to provide insight regarding aether? I have no read on her. I remember her being quiet in early parts of the game when I played, but since she got NKed N1, I haven't really seen her in action as the game progresses.

she has played at a slow pace consistently in recent games. it's a notable difference from the aether of early 2015 who was highly involved (and she showcased strong play as town and mafia). in this environment i think it's partially shyness and partially personal disengagement contributing to her quietness.

which is to say i don't think it can be reliably called a town or mafia meta. her content just has to be assessed at face value, even if there isn't much of it. at times her disengagement has seemed somewhat deliberate (i.e. "lmao how did Epi not get lynched?"), which i think could be called suspicious. i have her as a mild anti-town read right now.

i encourage you to get involved aether. i know you're capable of very good things.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

I think its best if Adam Smith plays it smarter then what you are suggesting if he pretty much outs himself by tunneling its going to paint a huge target for the mafia to go after.

you don't think a dead serial killer would be worth that risk?

I think adam smith can be real helpful role to help catch baddies. I mean if you want to just catch one indy and lose the most helpful info role the civs have then poor old george will be on his own.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think adam smith can be real helpful role to help catch baddies. I mean if you want to just catch one indy and lose the most helpful info role the civs have then poor old george will be on his own.

i don't necessarily disagree with you. it wouldn't be too huge a gamble for that player to try to get through another Day/Night and get more information. besides, there ought to be ways to "reveal" the necessary information without obvious tunneling that don't violate the rules. but i don't think that gamble should be carried on too long. the independent player in question can kill someone every night, and that is more likely to be a townie than not purely by the numbers.

this is another new rule for me (not being allowed to reveal information gleaned from one's own role), so i am trying to adjust.

[Marmot]

Oh look, I died early again.

[Bubbles]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough.

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

We haven't seen an Elo and Epi mafia duo since Champions '13, yeah? About time we saw it again, I suppose.

I'm getting mafia vibes from Epi too

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough.

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

We haven't seen an Elo and Epi mafia duo since Champions '13, yeah? About time we saw it again, I suppose.

I'm getting mafia vibes from Epi too

would you be willing to vote for Epi today? to pursue his lynch?

[Golden]

Oh look, I died early again.

I think we set a collective record for our shortest combined time in game. and that was already looooooow.

[Epignosis]

Oh look, I died early again.

I think we set a collective record for our shortest combined time in game. and that was already looooooow.

[Marmot]

Oh look, I died early again.

I think we set a collective record for our shortest combined time in game. and that was already looooooow.

Yup, on the Syndicate, I don't believe we've ever made it past Day 2 together.

I hope it will happen someday.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

I think its best if Adam Smith plays it smarter then what you are suggesting if he pretty much outs himself by tunneling its going to paint a huge target for the mafia to go after.

Maybe you're right. But at the very least, Adam Smith should leave some sign of who Malthus is. He should attack him in some way. So when he dies, we'll know who to lynch. Not being able to use this information is absolutely terrible.

We also have to consider the fact that eliminating Malthus is way more valuable than eliminating any of the individual mafia members. That's one night kill removed from the game.

How do you people from his site usually deal with this kind of situation? How do you act when you know who a player is? Do you wait, or do you find a way to reveal it asap? It would help to get some ideas.

[Marmot]

Oh look, I died early again.

I think we set a collective record for our shortest combined time in game. and that was already looooooow.

I'll see you two in the zombie bar.

[Marmot]

Sorry, that should be in dead red.

[Bubbles]

I don't think Epi's style is inherently suspicious. It think the points he's made have consistently been unfair and misleading. And his vote was really bad. He's a lot like old Mac for you RYMers.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough.

I'm certain that Epi is mafia.

We haven't seen an Elo and Epi mafia duo since Champions '13, yeah? About time we saw it again, I suppose.

I'm getting mafia vibes from Epi too

would you be willing to vote for Epi today? to pursue his lynch?

Hold up, he's already been killed? And Metalmarsh too, damn. RIP guys!

If you're asking would I be willing to vote to confirm Epi was mafia then yes I would. But not metalmarsh cause I was mostly neutral about him

Who's your top suspect? (I confess I'm still not totally up to date with the thread and I'm busy studying for exams, so probably going to vote for someone soon instead of spending too much time on this and risking missing the vote again.)

I still feel Bass is guilty and so I might vote him.

Also I think Sloonei, Movingpictures and YOU are all good guys, cause of the similarities in opinions and I just sort of like you? Yeah I'm naive like that. Especially Movingpictures with his rainbow lists lol very cool addition to the thread. And if I'm wrong and you're all stroking your chins and snorting cocaine out of hundred dollar bills in the background somewhere, well the economy affects us all and you'd get karmic revenge at some point ><

[Marmot]

And if I'm wrong and you're all stroking your chins and snorting cocaine out of hundred dollar bills in the background somewhere, well the economy affects us all and you'd get karmic revenge at some point ><

I could totally picture MovingPictures07 doing that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If you're asking would I be willing to vote to confirm Epi was mafia then yes I would.

i was just looking for your response so i could gauge whether you really didn't realize Epi is dead or milked the noob card.

at the moment my top suspect is probably Elohcin. i'll re-evaluate everyone later in the day phase though and see where i stand. i don't like to hold stubbornly onto Day 1 suspicions moving forward in a game.

[Tangrowth]

Thanks for elaborating, Jay!

I'm concerned about the suspicions surrounding Bass. I know I've suspected him, and that I frankly still do, but I'm puzzled. After what happened D1, I don't understand how Bass is more sketchy than Elo. I hate to sound like a broken record, but can someone help me out here? I'm trying to be open minded but I cannot fathom any scenario in which a civilian would so blatantly fabricate and fail to explain suspicions and posts as Elo seems to have done.

Thanks for the laugh, TinyBubbles. That was great.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So I just watched Ghostbusters. I can finally sign up for this forum.

[Bubbles]

If you're asking would I be willing to vote to confirm Epi was mafia then yes I would.

i was just looking for your response so i could gauge whether you really didn't realize Epi is dead or milked the noob card.

at the moment my top suspect is probably Elohcin. i'll re-evaluate everyone later in the day phase though and see where i stand. i don't like to hold stubbornly onto Day 1 suspicions moving forward in a game.

Ooh sneaky, maybe I'll have to recant my opinion about you being a good guy
I'm not milking the noob card I just skim a lot and miss things, it's as lame as that >_>

Anyway, I'm just gonna go ahead and Vote Elohcin. I'm assuming you're not a lying dirty wolf in sheep's clothing misleading me; apart from Bass I don't really know who else to vote for and don't really want to spend more time on it. Elohcin if you're innocent i'm TRULY SORRY and to everyone else, please don't bandwagon. I don't want to be responsible for lynching an innocent. That's probably what got Golden killed.

[Turnip Head]

I'm going to go ahead and vote TinyBubbles.

[Sloonei]

I'm going to go ahead and vote TinyBubbles.

this is twice that you've voted very early in the day phase. Is this a typical thing in games here where votes can't be changed? Even if it is, I can't help but raise an eyebrow and ask lots of questions. Namely: why? Both "Why TinyBubbles?" and "Why so soon?"

[Sloonei]

I'll try to catch up before falling asleep tonight, but Sloonei is a night-owl and somehow manages to have plans at midnight. I'll be floating around for a little while, though.

[Sloonei]

oh, i was expecting there to be a lot more posts. I'm caught up.

[Sloonei]

Thanks for elaborating, Jay!

I'm concerned about the suspicions surrounding Bass. I know I've suspected him, and that I frankly still do, but I'm puzzled. After what happened D1, I don't understand how Bass is more sketchy than Elo. I hate to sound like a broken record, but can someone help me out here? I'm trying to be open minded but I cannot fathom any scenario in which a civilian would so blatantly fabricate and fail to explain suspicions and posts as Elo seems to have done.

Thanks for the laugh, TinyBubbles. That was great.

I've mostly got a gut feeling about Bass at this point, tbh. My one big casing post againdt him from earlier still stands, and I could probably add to it if I looked harder (which I will do when I have the chance), but I've put him as my top suspect because I just feel good about the case.

I'll take anothet look at Elohcin's posts as well, and others because having only two reads isn't really an effective way to play.

[Sloonei]

I would propose that if Adam Smith is still alive (hopefully he's not Metalmarsh), then he should try to build a case against Malthus, who he probably targetted last night. This game doesn't allow role reveals, but I suppose he can come up with some reason to call him bad and then tunnel on him, no?

There's also the possibility of him keeping targetting Malthus over and over to exploit his night kill. But I think that's a bad idea, because he gets free again as soon as Adam Smith dies. We should get rid of the bastard as soon as we can.

I think its best if Adam Smith plays it smarter then what you are suggesting if he pretty much outs himself by tunneling its going to paint a huge target for the mafia to go after.

Maybe you're right. But at the very least, Adam Smith should leave some sign of who Malthus is. He should attack him in some way. So when he dies, we'll know who to lynch. Not being able to use this information is absolutely terrible.

We also have to consider the fact that eliminating Malthus is way more valuable than eliminating any of the individual mafia members. That's one night kill removed from the game.

How do you people from his site usually deal with this kind of situation? How do you act when you know who a player is? Do you wait, or do you find a way to reveal it asap? It would help to get some ideas.

We won't know when Smitty is dead though, will we? unless we lynch him.
I think a moderate approach from anyone with a power role is the appropriate route.

[Sloonei]

Also, do any of this community's regulars have tips for us noobs on how to proceed with the scumhuntery sans role reveals?

[thellama73]

Also, do any of this community's regulars have tips for us noobs on how to proceed with the scumhuntery sans role reveals?

I'm puzzled as to how role reveals would make scum huntery easier, escpially with only one mafia team. It's not like the mafia know the role of the person they kill beforehand.

[Sloonei]

I'm more puzzled over the lack of alignment reveals than role reveal. Not knowing who/what Epi was is giving me nightmares and I'm not even asleep yet. Obviously this is not an issue for the usual scum kill, as it's generally a safe bet that they won't kill their own, but

[Sloonei]

That maybe should have been a green post, but I like to use Mafia Philosophy chats in my case-building oftentimes. Let me know if that's a frowned upon thing here and I'll stop.