The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[Marmot]

For the record, since you have tried to pin a bad voting record on me several times today FZ... I was the first one to accuse Bass of being a baddie, and he was Double Down, a New Rogue. How does that compare to your voting record? Since you brought it up so insistently, which baddies did you find?

If you guys have so many people cleared in your minds that it leaves only me, then you're doing something wrong. I am not a New Rogue. If Rabbit was a New Rogue, then I think that there's likely two left... maybe one, maybe three, but I'm going with two as the most likely. It's not Bass, it's not Sophie. I don't think it's Black Rock. It may be S~V~S, Timmer, MM, FZ, or Devin. It's not me.

As far as I can remember, S~V~S, Timmer, and Metalmarsh have all claimed Old Rogue. Captain Cold killed twice, so that means that two Old Rogues had died. Roxy was Captain Cold, and is dead. Golden Glider is dead. That means there is a MAXIMUM of two Old Rogues left alive. Someone is lying.

If Professor Zoom killed Llama, then that means that he is still alive out there. Which means that when we lynched Aces, he wasn't Professor Zoom, he was Mirror Master. Which would mean there is only ONE Old Rogue left alive, and more false role claimers.

I have claimed nothing, Long Con.

It really felt like you were trying to claim Mirror Master recently. You even winked when you said it.

Oh, I see what you are saying. I winked at you because you winked at me. I didn't mean anything by it.

Linki: there are two specific players I think are Old Rogues, which is why I am pretty sure there are at least two left alive. LC listed them both in his list, SVS and timmer.

[FZ.]

But how is it possible based on CC's power and what LC says?

[Marmot]

For the record, since you have tried to pin a bad voting record on me several times today FZ... I was the first one to accuse Bass of being a baddie, and he was Double Down, a New Rogue. How does that compare to your voting record? Since you brought it up so insistently, which baddies did you find?

If you guys have so many people cleared in your minds that it leaves only me, then you're doing something wrong. I am not a New Rogue. If Rabbit was a New Rogue, then I think that there's likely two left... maybe one, maybe three, but I'm going with two as the most likely. It's not Bass, it's not Sophie. I don't think it's Black Rock. It may be S~V~S, Timmer, MM, FZ, or Devin. It's not me.

As far as I can remember, S~V~S, Timmer, and Metalmarsh have all claimed Old Rogue. Captain Cold killed twice, so that means that two Old Rogues had died. Roxy was Captain Cold, and is dead. Golden Glider is dead. That means there is a MAXIMUM of two Old Rogues left alive. Someone is lying.

If Professor Zoom killed Llama, then that means that he is still alive out there. Which means that when we lynched Aces, he wasn't Professor Zoom, he was Mirror Master. Which would mean there is only ONE Old Rogue left alive, and more false role claimers.

I have claimed nothing, Long Con.

The Golden Glider was lynched Day 3, and Captain Cold killed his second time on Night 3, so there could still be 3 Old Rogues left. Two of them I feel certain about, the other one is merely a possibility.

And no, I don't think Professor Zoom is still alive. I think that his nightkill of llama on Day 7 was a posthumous one. The flavor in the kill seemed to me that is the case. It could go either way though. I just don't think Professor Zoom is still alive, because clearly Wally West (the other Flash) is still alive.

Captain Cold killed twice and then died. Golder Glider was lynched the day before Captain Cold's second kill. That means there are three Old Rogues dead. Long Con missed the timing of Golden Glider's death in his explanation.

[FZ.]

But it says he can kill when an old rogue is night killed, not when lynched. I feel like an idiot, but I don't get what you're saying

[Long Con]

Captain Cold – He’s the strict and no-nonsense leader of The Rogues. He can use his “Cold Field” to Role Block a player each night. He has BTSC with Heat Wave. Captain Cold is all about “the score”. If an Old Rogue is night killed, he will have a night kill for his own use.

Are we sure about this? And if so, are you sure there's only one left?


linki: Thanks for the list. Going to look at it

I'm not sure of some of it. I am sure that there's three or four Old Rogues dead, and if Mirror Master were dead then we wouldn't know it.

I'm not that interested in the silencing, it's too WIFOMy as someone said. Let's just all be happy that we didn't have to listen to Timmer all Day.

Damn, we were hoping that Soneji was Plunder! Too bad he wasn't... or was he?

Pretty sure he wasn't. We lynched him. We didn't check him.

Sure he could be the Magic Mirror, but I think that's not the case.

Linki: So you were just winking back at me, and didn't mean to imply anything by it. Why do you believe Timmer and S~V~S are Old Rogues?

And MM is right, Golden Glider's lynch triggered one of CC's kills, that makes sense.

[Long Con]

But it says he can kill when an old rogue is night killed, not when lynched. I feel like an idiot, but I don't get what you're saying

Oh, snap, you're right! Forget my last post (end line), MM is wrong and you are right.

[Marmot]

But it says he can kill when an old rogue is night killed, not when lynched. I feel like an idiot, but I don't get what you're saying

Oh, snap, you're right! Forget my last post (end line), MM is wrong and you are right.

Oh, you guys are right. Sorry about that.

[FZ.]

So only 2 old rogues? Or 1?

[Long Con]

Sure he could be the Magic Mirror, but I think that's not the case.

MM, I'm sorry, but I don't believe that you weren't trying to imply that you are Mirror Master. I don't buy the "I was just winking back at you for no reason" story, to be frank, that's bullshit.

2 Old Rogues if Mirror Master is alive, 1 Old Rogue if he's dead.

[Marmot]

Captain Cold – He’s the strict and no-nonsense leader of The Rogues. He can use his “Cold Field” to Role Block a player each night. He has BTSC with Heat Wave. Captain Cold is all about “the score”. If an Old Rogue is night killed, he will have a night kill for his own use.

Are we sure about this? And if so, are you sure there's only one left?


linki: Thanks for the list. Going to look at it

I'm not sure of some of it. I am sure that there's three or four Old Rogues dead, and if Mirror Master were dead then we wouldn't know it.

I am so confused right now.

The Trickster should still have been alive as of Night 6.

The Weather Wizard should still have been alive as of Night 5.

And I also have SVS pegged as Heat Wave.

[Marmot]

Sure he could be the Magic Mirror, but I think that's not the case.

MM, I'm sorry, but I don't believe that you weren't trying to imply that you are Mirror Master. I don't buy the "I was just winking back at you for no reason" story, to be frank, that's bullshit.

2 Old Rogues if Mirror Master is alive, 1 Old Rogue if he's dead.

I am not the Mirror Master, and I never tried to imply it.

And yes I was winking back. Maybe there was a reason, but if there was I have forgotten it. I don't understand why you winked in the first place.

[Long Con]

Why Heat Wave? How pegged?

[FZ.]

Captain Cold – He’s the strict and no-nonsense leader of The Rogues. He can use his “Cold Field” to Role Block a player each night. He has BTSC with Heat Wave. Captain Cold is all about “the score”. If an Old Rogue is night killed, he will have a night kill for his own use.

Are we sure about this? And if so, are you sure there's only one left?


linki: Thanks for the list. Going to look at it

I'm not sure of some of it. I am sure that there's three or four Old Rogues dead, and if Mirror Master were dead then we wouldn't know it.

I am so confused right now.

The Trickster should still have been alive as of Night 6.

The Weather Wizard should still have been alive as of Night 5.

And I also have SVS pegged as Heat Wave.

Why do you have her pegged as HW?

So we think CC killed Epi and DH? Is that correct?

[Long Con]

Sure he could be the Magic Mirror, but I think that's not the case.

MM, I'm sorry, but I don't believe that you weren't trying to imply that you are Mirror Master. I don't buy the "I was just winking back at you for no reason" story, to be frank, that's bullshit.

2 Old Rogues if Mirror Master is alive, 1 Old Rogue if he's dead.

I am not the Mirror Master, and I never tried to imply it.

And yes I was winking back. Maybe there was a reason, but if there was I have forgotten it. I don't understand why you winked in the first place.

I winked because "He wasn't Plunder... or was he?" fits with a wink. But since Plunder (presumably) only fools rolecheckers and not lynches, as has been discussed, that wasn't as likely as I had thought.

[FZ.]

Wait, only Epi died on night 2 and it was CC. If he was not an old rouge, how could CC get another night kill on night 3?

[Long Con]

As interesting as this is getting, I have to get outside and mow the lawn. I'll be back in a bit.

[Marmot]

Why Heat Wave? How pegged?

Pretty pegged.

SVS talked about having BTSC with blindfaeth here.

And she and Roxy came after me when I was cursed on Day 3 with the same reasons at the exact same time, here. (check the following 10-15 posts to see the connection).

So I feel pretty strongly about it.

[Marmot]

Sure he could be the Magic Mirror, but I think that's not the case.

MM, I'm sorry, but I don't believe that you weren't trying to imply that you are Mirror Master. I don't buy the "I was just winking back at you for no reason" story, to be frank, that's bullshit.

2 Old Rogues if Mirror Master is alive, 1 Old Rogue if he's dead.

I am not the Mirror Master, and I never tried to imply it.

And yes I was winking back. Maybe there was a reason, but if there was I have forgotten it. I don't understand why you winked in the first place.

I winked because "He wasn't Plunder... or was he?" fits with a wink. But since Plunder (presumably) only fools rolecheckers and not lynches, as has been discussed, that wasn't as likely as I had thought.

I may have winked because I think I know who one of the seemers is. But I may also just have winked because you did. Sorry if that answer doesn't agree with you.

[Marmot]

Wait, only Epi died on night 2 and it was CC. If he was not an old rouge, how could CC get another night kill on night 3?

I guess DF and fingersplints must both have been Old Rogues. I don't think Epignosis was one.

[Epignosis]

I'm bored.

[FZ.]

Forget the winks. Can we get the facts straight?

Assuming Rox was really CC. She could only kill on night 2 and 3 (I assume she could kill even if she was imprisoned).
In order for her to kill on night 2 and 3, it means Splints and Epi had to be old rogues, doesn't it? Again, assuming she could get a kill even if it was her that killed the old rogue.
So two deadd. Roxy is dead too, and so is golden glider. Maybe Epi or Splints were Mirror.
I wonder if the Trickster could put the target earlier than the night it really happened. Was it a one time thing, or an every night thing?

If the former, let's assume Splints and Epi were Mirror and the Trickster. Then we have Roxy and BF as Cold and golden glider. This leaves Heat and the weather wizard, and Timmer a liar.


linki: You're assuming that she could get it on different nights even if two old rogues were killed at the same night. Possible, and doesn't really matter. It still leaves us again, with Timmer as a liar

[FZ.]

I'm bored.

Go read the bible

[Marmot]

Here's the thing FZ. The Trickster should still be alive, right?

Spacedaisy was killed on Night 6, and it looks to me like a trap set by the Trickster. Link

What do you think?

Linki:

[Marmot]

And for the record, I think that timmer is the Weather Wizard anyway. It fits.

The night ended early on a night that Wally West would normally kill. Night 5. The day also possibly ended early on the day that timmer and I tied for the lynch. Day 7.

[FZ.]

Here's the thing FZ. The Trickster should still be alive, right?

Spacedaisy was killed on Night 6, and it looks to me like a trap set by the Trickster. Link

What do you think?

Linki:

That's why I said that the trap could have been set before night 6. I doubt the Trickster could do such a thing every night, but that's just me. What if it was Epi, and he put it on someone before he died thinking he would probably be either lynched or NK early on, being the Epi that he is :P Or it could have been one of the others. In any case, Roxy had 2 kills, so there were two old rogues dead. She then died, and so did BF. That makes it 4. Either SVS is lying or TImmer. You give good reasons for SVS to be Heat, so it makes TImmer the liar. Plain and simple. It makes me an idiot because I thought TH wouldn't defend him like that, but at least we have him now.

linki: Timmer is not the weather wizard.

[Marmot]

These are all educated guess, but while we're at it, does anybody else want me to roleclaim for them.

[FZ.]

Day 7 did not end early. At least not like that. That's what I believe..........

linki: Sure. why don'g you guess mine

[FZ.]

I'm voting Timmer and suggest you all join me because after this conversation and understanding the roles, I think we have it

[Marmot]

Here's the thing FZ. The Trickster should still be alive, right?

Spacedaisy was killed on Night 6, and it looks to me like a trap set by the Trickster. Link

What do you think?

Linki:

That's why I said that the trap could have been set before night 6. I doubt the Trickster could do such a thing every night, but that's just me. What if it was Epi, and he put it on someone before he died thinking he would probably be either lynched or NK early on, being the Epi that he is :P Or it could have been one of the others. In any case, Roxy had 2 kills, so there were two old rogues dead. She then died, and so did BF. That makes it 4. Either SVS is lying or TImmer. You give good reasons for SVS to be Heat, so it makes TImmer the liar. Plain and simple. It makes me an idiot because I thought TH wouldn't defend him like that, but at least we have him now.

linki: Timmer is not the weather wizard.

I see.

The Trickster can lay a trap on even nights. (Night 6 was even of course). My guess is that the trap only lasts one night.

Linki: I'm starting to agree. I'll follow your vote.

Btw, what do you think about Bass now?

[FZ.]

MM, if that's the case, then the Trickster should still be alive and not Heat. If so, why are you following my vote?

[Marmot]

MM, if that's the case, then the Trickster should still be alive and not Heat. If so, why are you following my vote?

It depends, that is why I'm asking you about Bass. If he is the role that he hinted, it is possible that he borrowed the Trickster's power for a time.

[FZ.]

MM, if that's the case, then the Trickster should still be alive and not Heat. If so, why are you following my vote?

It depends, that is why I'm asking you about Bass. If he is the role that he hinted, it is possible that he borrowed the Trickster's power for a time.

You mean Abra? Would he be able to steal from someone who is dead?

[Marmot]

MM, if that's the case, then the Trickster should still be alive and not Heat. If so, why are you following my vote?

It depends, that is why I'm asking you about Bass. If he is the role that he hinted, it is possible that he borrowed the Trickster's power for a time.

You mean Abra? Would he be able to steal from someone who is dead?

Doctor Alchemy is the role he suggested.

[Marmot]

I have to go to work now. I'll be back later.

[FZ.]

MM, if that's the case, then the Trickster should still be alive and not Heat. If so, why are you following my vote?

It depends, that is why I'm asking you about Bass. If he is the role that he hinted, it is possible that he borrowed the Trickster's power for a time.

You mean Abra? Would he be able to steal from someone who is dead?

Doctor Alchemy is the role he suggested.

Forgot.
So you think he could have taken it earlier in the game? Night 1 or 2, and have it until night 6?

[FZ.]

Okay, bye.

[S~V~S]

Why Heat Wave? How pegged?

Pretty pegged.

SVS talked about having BTSC with blindfaeth here.

And she and Roxy came after me when I was cursed on Day 3 with the same reasons at the exact same time, here. (check the following 10-15 posts to see the connection).

So I feel pretty strongly about it.

Interesting theories, MM. But I am not Heat Wave. Just because Roxy & I were on the same page, does not mean we had BTSC. I would have screamed bloody blue murder when she was killed if I did. I am most def OR, but you have to look elsewhere for HW. I had map BTSC with BF, not role related.

[FZ.]

Why Heat Wave? How pegged?

Pretty pegged.

SVS talked about having BTSC with blindfaeth here.

And she and Roxy came after me when I was cursed on Day 3 with the same reasons at the exact same time, here. (check the following 10-15 posts to see the connection).

So I feel pretty strongly about it.

Interesting theories, MM. But I am not Heat Wave. Just because Roxy & I were on the same page, does not mean we had BTSC. I would have screamed bloody blue murder when she was killed if I did. I am most def OR, but you have to look elsewhere for HW. I had map BTSC with BF, not role related.

What do you think about the whole discussion?

[S~V~S]

I am not a huge fan of putting names on civvie roles, tbh. Although this whole discussion led me to notice something about my own role that I had totally missed, lol, and I want to thank the host for being incredibly gracious and not saying anything to make me feel stupid, lolol since I have been bollixing it up the whole game

[FZ.]

I am not a huge fan of putting names on civvie roles, tbh. Although this whole discussion led me to notice something about my own role that I had totally missed, lol, and I want to thank the host for being incredibly gracious and not saying anything to make me feel stupid, lolol since I have been bollixing it up the whole game

I think we're getting close to the end of the game, and I hope we only have one more baddie. Assuming you're not lying about being an old rogue, it means Timmer can't be. Now which is it?

[S~V~S]

Why?

[S~V~S]

I mean, prove it to me without presupposing I am Heat Wave.

[FZ.]

Based on CC"s role, there had to be 2 old rogues for him to be able to night kill. Since he did on night 2 and 3, 2 out of the 3 who were NK (Splints, DF and EPi) had to be old rogues. If Roxy was CC, that makes 3 rogues dead. Add to that golden glider, and you get 4. We started out with 6 old rogues, so there can only be 2. If you're an old rogue, Timmer can't be one

[S~V~S]

OK, that makes total sense, assuming the CC secret is correct, and I have no reason to believe it isn't. I am one. I thought a specific other person was the other one. Because i do think there are two left.

[S~V~S]

But I do want to hear what Timmer has to say about this. I tend to miss things sometimes, lol. So, yeah.

[FZ.]

But I do want to hear what Timmer has to say about this. I tend to miss things sometimes, lol. So, yeah.

I doubt you're thinking about the right person, but okay. For me, it's between you and Timmer now. My vote is on Timmer. He's going to have to convince me he's the other old rogue and not you.
Let the games begin


I'm going to bed

[S~V~S]

No, I don't think so. If you are also claiming to be one, which it appears that you are.

I am one, and I think it has been painfully clear which one, regardless of MMs Heat Wave theory. But if I am lynched I will be OK with it if only because it will allow me to prove LC wrong ha ha.

[Long Con]

Ok, so let me get this straight - MM is out of the running for Old Rogue, so he'd like us to believe he's either Wally West or an Indy Rogue. And I don't think he's Wally West, nor has he tried to hint that he is so. Also, I think he agrees on the most likely Wally West out there. So, MM as Indy, but FZ has stepped up to claim Old Rogue? I think that's the vibe I'm getting here.

And this is all supposing that Mirror Master is alive, something we have to take on faith since we just don't know.

Ok, S~V~S, I'll choose you out of the three Old Rogue contenders for my current vote, since you asked nicely. Final vote placement pending Timmer's response. Unless he's silenced again.

[timmer]

I'm not silenced.

I've sent in a PM to MR to confirm something from a long number of nights ago.

So am I right that, assuming that Roxy was Capt. Cold, that the only possible Old Rogues left alive are Heat Wave, Mirror Master and The Trickster?

In the meantime, SVS, I need to ask you. First, do you believe that Roxy was Capt. Cold? And also, have you ever, in the course of your travels on the map, found any useful items and used them on other players?

Your answers are very important.

[timmer]

To flesh things out a bit... Heat Wave sets a fire etc. which doesn't target a player.

Mirror Master spies on a player on odd nights.

The trickster lays a trap on EVEN nights.

So there is theoretically no way Mirror Master could EVER see The Trickster OR Heat Wave do a night action, right?

So SVS, I'd like to hear your answers to my questions, and if your answer is yes to the second question, could you say WHEN specifically this was?