The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[Long Con]

So am I right that, assuming that Roxy was Capt. Cold, that the only possible Old Rogues left alive are Heat Wave, Mirror Master and The Trickster?

The way it seems, Captain Roxy is dead, Golden Glider was lynched, and CC killed twice, meaning two more Old Rogues died. So only two are possibly alive.

[Long Con]

Oh, and I don't know if we have confirmed that Weather Wizard is dead, but there seems to be some buzz about that role, so maybe someone knows.

[Marmot]

Why Heat Wave? How pegged?

Pretty pegged.

SVS talked about having BTSC with blindfaeth here.

And she and Roxy came after me when I was cursed on Day 3 with the same reasons at the exact same time, here. (check the following 10-15 posts to see the connection).

So I feel pretty strongly about it.

Interesting theories, MM. But I am not Heat Wave. Just because Roxy & I were on the same page, does not mean we had BTSC. I would have screamed bloody blue murder when she was killed if I did. I am most def OR, but you have to look elsewhere for HW. I had map BTSC with BF, not role related.

This then begs the question of who Heat Wave was. fingersplints?

If you are not Heat Wave, but another Old Rogue, then surely Heat Wave died before Roxy did. I feel confident that neither Epignosis nor DFarady is Heat Wave. That leaves one option.

[Marmot]

I am not a huge fan of putting names on civvie roles, tbh. Although this whole discussion led me to notice something about my own role that I had totally missed, lol, and I want to thank the host for being incredibly gracious and not saying anything to make me feel stupid, lolol since I have been bollixing it up the whole game

I understand that, but I was trying to bounce some theories off of other players. And if you're going to insinuate and suggest that you are an Old Rogue and tell us it's obvious what role you have, then there shouldn't be a problem with me entertaining the notion for a particular role, whether I'm right or not.

[Marmot]

Ok, so let me get this straight - MM is out of the running for Old Rogue, so he'd like us to believe he's either Wally West or an Indy Rogue. And I don't think he's Wally West, nor has he tried to hint that he is so. Also, I think he agrees on the most likely Wally West out there. So, MM as Indy, but FZ has stepped up to claim Old Rogue? I think that's the vibe I'm getting here.

And this is all supposing that Mirror Master is alive, something we have to take on faith since we just don't know.

Ok, S~V~S, I'll choose you out of the three Old Rogue contenders for my current vote, since you asked nicely. Final vote placement pending Timmer's response. Unless he's silenced again.

I doubt the Mirror Master is alive, and I do think it is one of either DFarady or Epignosis.

[Black Rock]

Metalmarsh I am having troubles keeping up with you right now. You are putting names and titles on people all over the place, your theories seem to be ever changing.

[timmer]

I doubt the Mirror Master is alive, and I do think it is one of either DFarady or Epignosis.

Why is that? I see no reason to suspect Mirror Master is dead?

[Marmot]

I doubt the Mirror Master is alive, and I do think it is one of either DFarady or Epignosis.

Why is that? I see no reason to suspect Mirror Master is dead?

True, but I see more reason for the Trickster and the Weather Wizard to be alive. Their abilities have been put in play.

And since FZ has corrected me on Captain Cold's ability, those are probably the only two Old Rogues left alive.

[Marmot]

Metalmarsh I am having troubles keeping up with you right now. You are putting names and titles on people all over the place, your theories seem to be ever changing.

I'm sorry. If there's anything I'm saying that doesn't make sense, just ask and I will try to explain what I meant. Most of it makes sense in my head.

[timmer]

True, but I see more reason for the Trickster and the Weather Wizard to be alive. Their abilities have been put in play.

And since FZ has corrected me on Captain Cold's ability, those are probably the only two Old Rogues left alive.

There are definitely just two Old Rogues left, I agree there. I hope to get some answers from SVS soon, her responses will decide which of you will get my vote. One of you is lying, from my perspective, but I have no vantage on a confirmation either way from you, only her. And let's recall also that it was reported that BF was trying to find me. That shouldn't be considered insignificant, considering his role.

[timmer]

Or not you, but rather FZ, sorry!

[Marmot]

True, but I see more reason for the Trickster and the Weather Wizard to be alive. Their abilities have been put in play.

And since FZ has corrected me on Captain Cold's ability, those are probably the only two Old Rogues left alive.

There are definitely just two Old Rogues left, I agree there. I hope to get some answers from SVS soon, her responses will decide which of you will get my vote. One of you is lying, from my perspective, but I have no vantage on a confirmation either way from you, only her. And let's recall also that it was reported that BF was trying to find me. That shouldn't be considered insignificant, considering his role.

What do you mean me? I am not an Old Rogue, nor have I claimed to be.

This is between you, FZ, and SVS.

Linki: lol gotcha.

[FZ.]

Timmer, I'm trying to understand weather you're claiming to be heatwave or Mirror I'm assuming mirror, because I just checked the roles again and you ask about Mirror not being able to see the Trickster's actions or Heatwaves'. I assume that's you, or at least you're hinting to be it. That would mean both Heatwave and the Trickster are dead, and you're trying to find out what you saw SVS doing. I have no idea. I also don't understand how the Trickster and weather wizard and mirror could be alive after Roxy died. It makes no sense. So either Mr. Alchemy took one's power early on, and could hold on to it for longer, or you're lying. Because the only one we don't have proof about using a power is Mirror.


The only way there could be more than two old Rogues is if we didn't get CC's tidles right.


SVS, what's up with the "I don't care if I'm lynched because that would prove LC wrong" BS you keep saying. LC hasn't been saying anything about you in a while, and he can be proven wrong in the end game. I feel like this is an appeal to emotion. I think we just need to analyse the facts. I don't think any of us know what your role is, and if you've hinted at it, I didn't get it.

[Marmot]

Not a chance timmer is Heat Wave. Not after this interaction.

[Marmot]

Ok, so let me get this straight - MM is out of the running for Old Rogue, so he'd like us to believe he's either Wally West or an Indy Rogue. And I don't think he's Wally West, nor has he tried to hint that he is so. Also, I think he agrees on the most likely Wally West out there. So, MM as Indy, but FZ has stepped up to claim Old Rogue? I think that's the vibe I'm getting here.

And this is all supposing that Mirror Master is alive, something we have to take on faith since we just don't know.

Ok, S~V~S, I'll choose you out of the three Old Rogue contenders for my current vote, since you asked nicely. Final vote placement pending Timmer's response. Unless he's silenced again.

I forgot to ask. Who is the likely Wally West in your eyes? I do have an idea, and I'll tell you if I agree.

[Turnip Head]

Rezz please?

[Marmot]

Rezz please?

That's what I'm saying, but in that other game.

[Turnip Head]

Rezz please?

That's what I'm saying, but in that other game.

It's like we''re haunting each other!

[Marmot]

Rezz please?

That's what I'm saying, but in that other game.

It's like we''re haunting each other!

Merry Christmas Turnip Head.

[timmer]

Timmer, I'm trying to understand weather you're claiming to be heatwave or Mirror I'm assuming mirror, because I just checked the roles again and you ask about Mirror not being able to see the Trickster's actions or Heatwaves'. I assume that's you, or at least you're hinting to be it. That would mean both Heatwave and the Trickster are dead, and you're trying to find out what you saw SVS doing. I have no idea. I also don't understand how the Trickster and weather wizard and mirror could be alive after Roxy died. It makes no sense. So either Mr. Alchemy took one's power early on, and could hold on to it for longer, or you're lying. Because the only one we don't have proof about using a power is Mirror.

You make good assumptions, I'd say! And Mirror Master's power consists of spying on people, so obviously there is nothing you'd have seen proof of out here in the thread. But depending on SVS' answer to my question, you may see proof of it indirectly. Until I get her answer, she gets my vote.

[timmer]

But FZ, to be clear here. If SVS gives me a certain answer, my vote will move to you, and it will never change until one of us is dead. Because her answer will take all doubt out of my mind, and it won't change.

[Long Con]

MM, I think Sophie is Wally West.

[S~V~S]

I'm not silenced.

I've sent in a PM to MR to confirm something from a long number of nights ago.

So am I right that, assuming that Roxy was Capt. Cold, that the only possible Old Rogues left alive are Heat Wave, Mirror Master and The Trickster?

In the meantime, SVS, I need to ask you. First, do you believe that Roxy was Capt. Cold? And also, have you ever, in the course of your travels on the map, found any useful items and used them on other players?

Your answers are very important.

Yes I do believe she was cc and no, I have found nothing. I have sent in movements, but have only actually been told I moved once since I had BTS with Sophie.

And MM, I have only really discussed the mechanics of one role. My error was that I have sent in an action every night. Doh. So I made a major assumption based on something that never happened.

[FZ.]

But FZ, to be clear here. If SVS gives me a certain answer, my vote will move to you, and it will never change until one of us is dead. Because her answer will take all doubt out of my mind, and it won't change.

If you really are an old rogue, that would be a stupid thing to do. Also, would you care to explain to me how Weather Wizard operated on night 5 if he was supposed to be dead?

[FZ.]

MM, I think Sophie is Wally West.

I agree.

[Marmot]

MM, I think Sophie is Wally West.

What makes you think she is Wally West, and not another role?

[Long Con]

Llama's vouch makes her a Detective, and Pied Piper seems to be dead.

[FZ.]

Llama's vouch makes her a Detective, and Pied Piper seems to be dead.

We all assumed that because there was no message, but what if they decided not to post to make the baddies think he's dead? I remember llama objecting strongly to lynching MM

[FZ.]

I don't know how many old rogues are out there, but if CC could only kill when an old rogue was NK, it means one of the 3 of us (SVS, Timmer and I) are lying. I know it's not me. Is there any chance we got this wrong and there are more than 2 rogues? This is crucial

[Long Con]

Llama's vouch makes her a Detective, and Pied Piper seems to be dead.

We all assumed that because there was no message, but what if they decided not to post to make the baddies think he's dead? I remember llama objecting strongly to lynching MM

I have my doubts about that... Pied Piper's combination of information and thread-messaging would be used to help win the game, not hidden away to trick the baddies. I don't see the benefit of tricking them into thinking he's dead.

[Marmot]

Llama's vouch makes her a Detective, and Pied Piper seems to be dead.

Let's see if I can prove he is not dead.

The last message we received from the Pied Piper was on Day 4, meaning the earliest he could have been killed was Night 3.

Dharmahelper was killed on Night 3, but timmer says he was an Indy Rogue based on his gravestone, so he probably isn't the one. He also voted for llama on Day 1.

Bullzeye was killed Night 4, though llama suspected him, so it's not him.

Spacedaisy was killed Night 6, but based on her Day 1 vote, I think she is not the one. llama won the lynch 8-7, and her vote was placed elsewhere.

rabbit was killed Night 9 by Wally, so he is surely not Wally's teammate.

All other deaths came before the Piper's last message or came via the lynch, so we know their roles.

[Long Con]

I don't know how many old rogues are out there, but if CC could only kill when an old rogue was NK, it means one of the 3 of us (SVS, Timmer and I) are lying. I know it's not me. Is there any chance we got this wrong and there are more than 2 rogues? This is crucial

Even if Golden Glider was really Mirror Master... the numbers are still the same. Four Old Rogues out of six are dead.

[FZ.]

Llama's vouch makes her a Detective, and Pied Piper seems to be dead.

We all assumed that because there was no message, but what if they decided not to post to make the baddies think he's dead? I remember llama objecting strongly to lynching MM

I have my doubts about that... Pied Piper's combination of information and thread-messaging would be used to help win the game, not hidden away to trick the baddies. I don't see the benefit of tricking them into thinking he's dead.

Maybe after llama was resurrected, they thought it would be better to make it look like detectives were dead because of Zoom, or professor Zoom (whoever's role could get them killed easily). I just don't get why llama came in when we were thinking about lynching MM and strongly objected, and even told MM that he should have gotten by without him, but he's here now and he won't let us lynch him. Something like that

linki: Will read both in a minute

[Long Con]

Llama's vouch makes her a Detective, and Pied Piper seems to be dead.

Let's see if I can prove he is not dead.

The last message we received from the Pied Piper was on Day 4, meaning the earliest he could have been killed was Night 3.

Dharmahelper was killed on Night 3, but timmer says he was an Indy Rogue based on his gravestone, so he probably isn't the one. He also voted for llama on Day 1.

Bullzeye was killed Night 4, though llama suspected him, so it's not him.

Spacedaisy was killed Night 6, but based on her Day 1 vote, I think she is not the one. llama won the lynch 8-7, and her vote was placed elsewhere.

rabbit was killed Night 9 by Wally, so he is surely not Wally's teammate.

All other deaths came before the Piper's last message or came via the lynch, so we know their roles.

I've come across two dead bodies in my travels, and there was nothing to indicate their role on either of them. I would say that DharmaHelper was probably Pied Piper then, and Timmer is not correct about his assumption.

[FZ.]

Reading what you both say, we're back to the three claiming old rogue. The options are Trickster, WW, and Mirror. Who seems least trust worthy to you, and I hope you don't say me

[Marmot]

Why would the Pied Piper vote for llama on Day 1 if have civvie BTSC together?

Linki: Wally West is a Detective. But for the record, I believe you over SVS and timmer.

[Long Con]

Llama's vouch makes her a Detective, and Pied Piper seems to be dead.

We all assumed that because there was no message, but what if they decided not to post to make the baddies think he's dead? I remember llama objecting strongly to lynching MM

I have my doubts about that... Pied Piper's combination of information and thread-messaging would be used to help win the game, not hidden away to trick the baddies. I don't see the benefit of tricking them into thinking he's dead.

Maybe after llama was resurrected, they thought it would be better to make it look like detectives were dead because of Zoom, or professor Zoom (whoever's role could get them killed easily). I just don't get why llama came in when we were thinking about lynching MM and strongly objected, and even told MM that he should have gotten by without him, but he's here now and he won't let us lynch him. Something like that

linki: Will read both in a minute

If Zoom is still out there, then he surely believes (as we all do) that Sophie is Wally West. Even if he assumed the Piper is dead, me must have targeted Sophie at some point just in case. Then the Piper would have died despite hiding out. Right?

Zoom (????????) – He thinks he can make all the other heroes and villains “better”. Each odd night he will Protect one player. That player will be randomly rewarded or penalized as well. If Zoom protects Wally, one of Wally’s teammates will randomly die.

[Marmot]

Llama's vouch makes her a Detective, and Pied Piper seems to be dead.

Let's see if I can prove he is not dead.

The last message we received from the Pied Piper was on Day 4, meaning the earliest he could have been killed was Night 3.

Dharmahelper was killed on Night 3, but timmer says he was an Indy Rogue based on his gravestone, so he probably isn't the one. He also voted for llama on Day 1.

Bullzeye was killed Night 4, though llama suspected him, so it's not him.

Spacedaisy was killed Night 6, but based on her Day 1 vote, I think she is not the one. llama won the lynch 8-7, and her vote was placed elsewhere.

rabbit was killed Night 9 by Wally, so he is surely not Wally's teammate.

All other deaths came before the Piper's last message or came via the lynch, so we know their roles.

I've come across two dead bodies in my travels, and there was nothing to indicate their role on either of them. I would say that DharmaHelper was probably Pied Piper then, and Timmer is not correct about his assumption.

Are we allowed to talk about the dead bodies we've come across? How deeply can we discuss them do you think?

[FZ.]

Aces was professor zoom. So only zoom. He could be dead too by now. But back then, he might have not been.

MM, what does Wally West being a detective, which I know, have to do with it?

[Long Con]

Reading what you both say, we're back to the three claiming old rogue. The options are Trickster, WW, and Mirror. Who seems least trust worthy to you, and I hope you don't say me

My vote is still on S~V~S pending the conclusion of the debate between her and Timmer. S~V~S has now said she tried to use her power every night so Timmer's supposed viewing of her ... well, I don't think this dance between then is done, so we'll see.

Linki: I would like MR to be around more to ask such questions. I have a few questions for him. Did any of you get a movement result from the last movement? I am still waiting for some info about where I ended up.

[Marmot]

Aces was professor zoom. So only zoom. He could be dead too by now. But back then, he might have not been.

MM, what does Wally West being a detective, which I know, have to do with it?

You said WW, and I misread it as Wally West.

[Marmot]

Reading what you both say, we're back to the three claiming old rogue. The options are Trickster, WW, and Mirror. Who seems least trust worthy to you, and I hope you don't say me

My vote is still on S~V~S pending the conclusion of the debate between her and Timmer. S~V~S has now said she tried to use her power every night so Timmer's supposed viewing of her ... well, I don't think this dance between then is done, so we'll see.

Linki: I would like MR to be around more to ask such questions. I have a few questions for him. Did any of you get a movement result from the last movement? I am still waiting for some info about where I ended up.

No movement for me, and I am still waiting on an answer to a PM as well.

[FZ.]

LC, are you sure SVS said she tried to use her role every night? If that's the case, she has to be lying, because we don't have any old rogue alive that can use a power every night.


I'll be around for an hour or so more, but then I'm leaving and coming back only after deadline. I'll move my vote to SVS just in case. If something changes, you all move your votes from her because I won't be here to do it.

[FZ.]

No movement for me either.

[Marmot]

I'm not silenced.

I've sent in a PM to MR to confirm something from a long number of nights ago.

So am I right that, assuming that Roxy was Capt. Cold, that the only possible Old Rogues left alive are Heat Wave, Mirror Master and The Trickster?

In the meantime, SVS, I need to ask you. First, do you believe that Roxy was Capt. Cold? And also, have you ever, in the course of your travels on the map, found any useful items and used them on other players?

Your answers are very important.

Yes I do believe she was cc and no, I have found nothing. I have sent in movements, but have only actually been told I moved once since I had BTS with Sophie.

And MM, I have only really discussed the mechanics of one role. My error was that I have sent in an action every night. Doh. So I made a major assumption based on something that never happened.

This is what SVS said, FZ.

[Marmot]

LC, are you sure SVS said she tried to use her role every night? If that's the case, she has to be lying, because we don't have any old rogue alive that can use a power every night.


I'll be around for an hour or so more, but then I'm leaving and coming back only after deadline. I'll move my vote to SVS just in case. If something changes, you all move your votes from her because I won't be here to do it.

Why not just leave it on timmer then? Who do you feel is being less trustworthy right now?

[FZ.]

The only Rogue that can use the role every night is Golden glider. If that's the case, then TImmer is lying.

[FZ.]

I'm not silenced.

I've sent in a PM to MR to confirm something from a long number of nights ago.

So am I right that, assuming that Roxy was Capt. Cold, that the only possible Old Rogues left alive are Heat Wave, Mirror Master and The Trickster?

In the meantime, SVS, I need to ask you. First, do you believe that Roxy was Capt. Cold? And also, have you ever, in the course of your travels on the map, found any useful items and used them on other players?

Your answers are very important.

Yes I do believe she was cc and no, I have found nothing. I have sent in movements, but have only actually been told I moved once since I had BTS with Sophie.

And MM, I have only really discussed the mechanics of one role. My error was that I have sent in an action every night. Doh. So I made a major assumption based on something that never happened.

This is what SVS said, FZ.

Oh wait, so she used her role every night by mistake. Guh, one of them is bad, but we need to take out the right one

[FZ.]

LC, are you sure SVS said she tried to use her role every night? If that's the case, she has to be lying, because we don't have any old rogue alive that can use a power every night.


I'll be around for an hour or so more, but then I'm leaving and coming back only after deadline. I'll move my vote to SVS just in case. If something changes, you all move your votes from her because I won't be here to do it.

Why not just leave it on timmer then? Who do you feel is being less trustworthy right now?

Obviously, I keep changing my mind every second, LOL.

[Marmot]

I feel that timmer is more likely to be lying.

I also get the feeling that LC is on timmer's side, and trying to push the lynch towards SVS instead.