Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[Tangrowth]

Ok I have a little time so let me get in on this. I think TH and Golden 2.0 have made some valid points against Roxy.
I dont know G-man's game at all. Has he ever done big gambits like this in the past?

No, he hasn't, but he's relatively new to mafia again, and what better time to pull off such a gambit?

When you're not known for gambits.

That's how I became known for ridiculous gambits. You know how well known for gambits I was when I tried the infamous parchment gambit in SoT? Not at all. That's why it was perfect, even if my explanation for it was terrible and they lynched me after lynching aapje (but all I wanted was to lynch aapje).

[acrosstheaether]

Tbh I don't think anyone who would vehemently push for my lynch rn would be mafia. Mafia knows I'm town, and outright advocating for my lynch would bring fire to them once I flip. I'm keeping an eye on those who seem to do it subtly

[Tangrowth]

I would, personally, never think of pulling such a gambit has G-Man has pulled here, because I have a reputation for pulling gambits.

But little ol' G-Man who has no such history? Look, he's making such an effort to communicate! It must be real.

It's all too perfect and convenient. It's bullshit.

[Tangrowth]

Tbh I don't think anyone who would vehemently push for my lynch rn would be mafia. Mafia knows I'm town, and outright advocating for my lynch would bring fire to them once I flip. I'm keeping an eye on those who seem to do it subtly

Would you like to contribute to voicing thoughts on suspects or are you going to continue playing WIFOM tetherball with yourself?

You're going to get knocked with the WIFOMball eventually, so why push it upon yourself now? It hurts.

[Tangrowth]

I cannot believe the mafia killed TinyBubbles instead of me last night.

[fingersplints]

Who are you going to go after when I flip town?

In the event of that highly unlikely situation, I'm not sure that would change my read on anyone.

[sanmateo]

Tbh I don't think anyone who would vehemently push for my lynch rn would be mafia. Mafia knows I'm town, and outright advocating for my lynch would bring fire to them once I flip. I'm keeping an eye on those who seem to do it subtly

you should call them out as we go

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, I absolutely cannot wait any longer for Rox and G-Man's retaliation, so while it is sure to be excellent, I really need to do some school work.

See you folks on the flip side. (i.e., in 30 minutes probably) :P

[acrosstheaether]

I wouldn't be at all uncomfortable if I were G-Man right now, btw. I used to fall for vvlll/Keterman pulling this shit on RYM, but I see through it now. Just because a player is pulling this thing MP07 is doing doesn't necessarily mean they're hugely suspicious of whoever they're putting that pressure on. He just wants you to talk, G-Man.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Is Aether new to mafia? The way she/he has been playing is reading like a new player thats mafia and doesnt know how to handle the heat.

[Tangrowth]

I wouldn't be at all uncomfortable if I were G-Man right now, btw. I used to fall for vvlll/Keterman pulling this shit on RYM, but I see through it now. Just because a player is pulling this thing MP07 is doing doesn't necessarily mean they're hugely suspicious of whoever they're putting that pressure on. He just wants you to talk, G-Man.

This is NOT true.

I suspect G-Man heavily.

Very interesting, though, that you're trying to make it seem as though my conviction is any less serious than it should be taken, and right after I said I was leaving.

[acrosstheaether]

Is Aether new to mafia? The way she/he has been playing is reading like a new player thats mafia and doesnt know how to handle the heat.

I'm not new, just a bad player/autistic

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Thoughts on birdwithteeth/Golden 2.0

bwt was my number 2 suspect on Day 3. One of the reasons was because of his somewhat inconsistent activity. Then he got replaced, which gave him the perfect alibi for not being active. I still think his Day 2 vote, combined with his explanations of it and what I perceived as hipocrisy in his analysis of others made him really suspicious. But some of the suspicion has to be reduced now that I know I was dealing with an inactive player.

Golden has been a lot more active. And maybe too active. It seems to be he took a complete 180º from the playing style he had on day 1, which I was calling inefficient myself. Here, he's suspecting people left and right, posting rainbow lists and looking like he wants to contribute a lot. That looks like townie behavior, but I can't help but find it weird how different it is from his day 1 style. That may be an early/later game pattern common to his meta, though (stays on the fence in the beginning then unleashes his game later), which I've seen other players doing.

Some of his reads are prtty good. I liked his post about Roxy.

One thing I also found to be sketchy was his help on defending and proving my theory, and then suddenly stopping talking about it. It's like he saw the possibility of a Bass lynch and wanted to jump on board, but then after sanmateo and a few others argued against it, he realized it was unlikely to bear fruit and jumped away from it. Seems like he is very eager to help, but isn't very consistent about it.

I'm leaning slighly mafia on him. I don't wanna be responsible for another Golden mislynch though, and I'm gonna be specially careful reading him now, so I wanna wait longer and see how his game develops.
Godanmit you people made 12 posts while I was writing this one. Stop talking so much.

[Turnip Head]

Ok I have a little time so let me get in on this. I think TH and Golden 2.0 have made some valid points against Roxy.

Which points did you think were valid? Do you have a second take on anything that either me or Golden has brought up?

[sanmateo]

the whole splints/mp thing is really bothering me, i'm not sure i would completely drop my suspicions of a player overnight when i was as convinced as they were (specially splints) on night 3.

[acrosstheaether]

the whole splints/mp thing is really bothering me, i'm not sure i would completely drop my suspicions of a player overnight when i was as convinced as they were (specially splints) on night 3.

MP07 is obviously purposely trying to test us. With good intentions (hopefully).

[acrosstheaether]

I wouldn't be at all uncomfortable if I were G-Man right now, btw. I used to fall for vvlll/Keterman pulling this shit on RYM, but I see through it now. Just because a player is pulling this thing MP07 is doing doesn't necessarily mean they're hugely suspicious of whoever they're putting that pressure on. He just wants you to talk, G-Man.

This is NOT true.

I suspect G-Man heavily.

Very interesting, though, that you're trying to make it seem as though my conviction is any less serious than it should be taken, and right after I said I was leaving.

I said not necessarily. You may or may not be, but what's definitely true is that you want him to talk, either way. Aye?

[acrosstheaether]

I have a tinfoil theory of MP07/splints being teammates tbh. Tinfoil though.

[fingersplints]

the whole splints/mp thing is really bothering me, i'm not sure i would completely drop my suspicions of a player overnight when i was as convinced as they were (specially splints) on night 3.

There are a few abilities that could explain that. I'm not saying that is what it is, because it isn't at least on my hold. My suspicion on MP is not dropped, but on hold for the moment until after the results of the lynch. I think there are several people up for lynch nomination who will help me determine MP's affiliation.

[sanmateo]

I have a tinfoil theory of MP07/splints being teammates tbh. Tinfoil though.

what do you think about the following players:
JJJ
DDL
splints
bass
mp

[fingersplints]

EBWOP

the whole splints/mp thing is really bothering me, i'm not sure i would completely drop my suspicions of a player overnight when i was as convinced as they were (specially splints) on night 3.

There are a few abilities that could explain that. I'm not saying that is what it is, because it isn't at least on my hold end.My suspicion on MP is not dropped, but on hold for the moment until after the results of the lynch. I think there are several people up for lynch nomination who will help me determine MP's affiliation.

[sanmateo]

the whole splints/mp thing is really bothering me, i'm not sure i would completely drop my suspicions of a player overnight when i was as convinced as they were (specially splints) on night 3.

There are a few abilities that could explain that. I'm not saying that is what it is, because it isn't at least on my hold. My suspicion on MP is not dropped, but on hold for the moment until after the results of the lynch. I think there are several people up for lynch nomination who will help me determine MP's affiliation.

see thats the thing, yesterday it seemed like the most pressing concern for town if you were to drop dead immediately was for us to lynch mp

[Bass_the_Clever]

Ok I have a little time so let me get in on this. I think TH and Golden 2.0 have made some valid points against Roxy.

Which points did you think were valid? Do you have a second take on anything that either me or Golden has brought up?

I think her only really calling out people who are going after other people hard is off. I know she sticks up for people in games but thats all she has been doing most of the game. That reads Mafia to me.
TH does Roxy stick up for splints in a lot of games?

[fingersplints]

the whole splints/mp thing is really bothering me, i'm not sure i would completely drop my suspicions of a player overnight when i was as convinced as they were (specially splints) on night 3.

There are a few abilities that could explain that. I'm not saying that is what it is, because it isn't at least on my hold. My suspicion on MP is not dropped, but on hold for the moment until after the results of the lynch. I think there are several people up for lynch nomination who will help me determine MP's affiliation.

see thats the thing, yesterday it seemed like the most pressing concern for town if you were to drop dead immediately was for us to lynch mp

Yes, if MP led my lynch today, I would have liked my death to be avenged by MP being killed next.

[Turnip Head]

Ok I have a little time so let me get in on this. I think TH and Golden 2.0 have made some valid points against Roxy.

Which points did you think were valid? Do you have a second take on anything that either me or Golden has brought up?

I think her only really calling out people who are going after other people hard is off. I know she sticks up for people in games but thats all she has been doing most of the game. That reads Mafia to me.
TH does Roxy stick up for splints in a lot of games?

I wouldn't say she sticks up for splints in a lot of games. I think she reads splintsy especially closely, for sure. What's off to me is that Roxy hasn't really described what it is about splintsy's game that's so civ, in order to make us understand it... other than to give splintsy all the credit for BR's lynch the night after, which even splints will tell you isn't how it really went down.

[sanmateo]

Ok I have a little time so let me get in on this. I think TH and Golden 2.0 have made some valid points against Roxy.

Which points did you think were valid? Do you have a second take on anything that either me or Golden has brought up?

I think her only really calling out people who are going after other people hard is off. I know she sticks up for people in games but thats all she has been doing most of the game. That reads Mafia to me.
TH does Roxy stick up for splints in a lot of games?

she also built a case on turnip head based on the day 1 vote for golden, but that's pretty much the only time she went after someone unless i'm missing something

[acrosstheaether]

I have a tinfoil theory of MP07/splints being teammates tbh. Tinfoil though.

what do you think about the following players:
JJJ
DDL
splints
bass
mp

Ahh, finally something I actually have my own answers to instead of having to say "someone else already answered this and I agree with them" or "it's just a vibe".

JJJ - good overall, but I'm slightly uncomfortable that he's still alive (then again what if mafia wants us to feel this way )
DDL - confused. If G-Man is bad, then DDL is probably good, if G-Man is good then I'm not sure.
splints - I'm with you on the MP/splints confusion. Will explain more below where I address MP.
Bass - the fact that he broke my tie with a known mafia makes me feel good. As I said, he'd be a clever mafia if he's mafia. Basically, in a scenario where DDL is bad and JJJ is good, then Bass would be 100% confirmed good to me.
MP - the thing that unsettles me is that he seemed to draw back on his heavy interrogation of splints before the night ended. I'd be truly inclined to believe that MP has some sort of investigative power if that happened after the night. splints' response to MP's sudden reversal is also worthy of further investigation imo. My tinfoil theory goes like this: see how a lot of us were set on lynching fingersplints prior to MP's reversal, and now the day is not headed that way at all? Maybe MP did so to make splints look good, and splints is acting undecided and still potentially leaning mafia on MP to distance herself from looking like she's on his side. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS JUST A TINFOIL THEORY. I was also thinking that perhaps MP and splints were targeted by John Nash, but again, the withdrawal before night ending thingy, and splints' responses do not match such a possibility.

[Roxy]

I want to post but MP posts seem quite hostile and I am not sure I deserve the attitude.

You bet your ass I have defended people I thought were town and I do it all the time in games.

You should wonder why I have been vocal about it - its bc I feel that I can read the people I have vouched for. I have played many games with them - moreso splints and Golden.

I am quite surprised and wondering why splints changed her mind about me? I feel like finaly we are both civ and now she doubts me? why?

I am at work and my boss has said no phone while working and I used up a lot of my lunch hour with my brother whose father-in-law passed away last night.

I am not asking to be excused but I am asking that if you can wait until I am off work after 5 est.

It will give you an hour and a half to let me convince you of your folly and show you why people are doing what they are doing.

Just think about why I would be so sure that some are civs. when you come up with a baddie reason look again bc you are dead wrong and believe it or not the town needs me.
Gtg back to work sorry

Linky TH that is a lie read my posts I say so to jjj in my last post about my catch up. I do not have many posts so lrn2rd you have been dismissive of me all game and it is quite ridiculous.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Thoughts on splints:

This one is hard to read. She has been all over the place lately in this game. First there was the whole stuff with the BR tunneling, the weird aether vote on D3 which could suggest bussing, the arguing with MP...

None of those things really make her a big suspect. They are all little things mentioned by other players which could be signs of mafia or not.

The problem is how she's reacting to them. She looks like a very emotional person. She is quick to get angry or distressed when she is suspected, but goes back to calm as soon as the subject changes from her. She even called a "lynch me then" once. Also once I put a suspicion on her, and she replied by coming up with a very tinfoily theory of me being the guy who cursed G-Man. Again, it's like she's all over the place.

I don't like emotional reactions, because they put town in a very tricky situation. It's possible for a townie to have a legit emotional reaction to something, but it's also very easy for mafia to fake that, and it makes townies wary of attacking. I tend to see this as more of a sign of mafia than town. Because town should, ideally, keep their cool as much as possible and stay rational, while mafia would benefit from making these reactions to provoke the desired reactions on townies.

I honestly don't know what to make of her. I'm putting her on neutral out of sheer confusion.

[acrosstheaether]

How would you lot rank these possibilities (mine is in no particular order atm)? Or just pick the one or two that you think are most likely?

- town MP / town splints
- town MP / mafia splints
- mafia MP / town splints
- mafia MP / mafia MP

[acrosstheaether]

How would you lot rank these possibilities (mine is in no particular order atm)? Or just pick the one or two that you think are most likely?

- town MP / town splints
- town MP / mafia splints
- mafia MP / town splints
- mafia MP / mafia splints

EDIT

[Dragon D. Luffy]

JJJ - good overall, but I'm slightly uncomfortable that he's still alive (then again what if mafia wants us to feel this way )

I'm having this feeling since the game started. JJJ is my biggest "I honestly hope he isn't mafia or we're fucked" player.

I wish Sloonei was here, he seemed like he could read Jay.

[Turnip Head]

You bet your ass I have defended people I thought were town and I do it all the time in games.

It's not only that you've defended people, but how you've defended them, and how you've used that defense to accuse others. No worries, I can wait for your reply when you get home.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Isolated hmmm thought from workjay

What id g-man isn't cursed and never even intended to fake it until someone first raised the question. Just posting a couple pictures to start Day 1 doesn't have to mean anything.

[acrosstheaether]

She looks like a very emotional person. She is quick to get angry or distressed when she is suspected, but goes back to calm as soon as the subject changes from her.

You just described my entire personality. In general. Out of mafia. My existence in the world. Thanks

[Bass_the_Clever]

How would you lot rank these possibilities (mine is in no particular order atm)? Or just pick the one or two that you think are most likely?

- town MP / town splints
- town MP / mafia splints
- mafia MP / town splints
- mafia MP / mafia MP

You dont think both can be town?

[acrosstheaether]

Please quote my second post, where I quoted myself. Idk how to edit posts here.

[acrosstheaether]

I listed town MP / town splints as a possibility, no?

[sanmateo]

1) Basically, in a scenario where DDL is bad and JJJ is good, then Bass would be 100% confirmed good to me.
2) I was also thinking that perhaps MP and splints were targeted by John Nash

1) can you elaborate?
2) i had assumed that was the mp vs g-man singing contest.

[acrosstheaether]

1) Basically, in a scenario where DDL is bad and JJJ is good, then Bass would be 100% confirmed good to me.
2) I was also thinking that perhaps MP and splints were targeted by John Nash

1) can you elaborate?
2) i had assumed that was the mp vs g-man singing contest.

1) DDL is going in pretty heavy on Bass, and JJJ has been reading Bass well, and I could see JJJ's reasoning behind it (if JJJ is a bad guy, things would go less well for Bass, as JJJ could be read as protecting Bass). I'd say as a baddie, one would be more inclined to target and vote for townies at this point rather than bus.
2) if that's true then John Nash is probably someone from RYM lol

[Bass_the_Clever]

You cant edit posts. Sorry I didn't see it.
I'm reading MP as town because of the way he has had tunnel vison. I have seen him play this way a lot when he is civ.
I'm starting to think splints is town also. Her vote last lynch seemed off but the way she reacted made me feel a lot better about her.

[fingersplints]

Ok I have a little time so let me get in on this. I think TH and Golden 2.0 have made some valid points against Roxy.

Which points did you think were valid? Do you have a second take on anything that either me or Golden has brought up?

I think her only really calling out people who are going after other people hard is off. I know she sticks up for people in games but thats all she has been doing most of the game. That reads Mafia to me.
TH does Roxy stick up for splints in a lot of games?

I wouldn't say she sticks up for splints in a lot of games. I think she reads splintsy especially closely, for sure. What's off to me is that Roxy hasn't really described what it is about splintsy's game that's so civ, in order to make us understand it... other than to give splintsy all the credit for BR's lynch the night after, which even splints will tell you isn't how it really went down.

Here in Cars Mafia she defended me when someone said my vote was suspicious.

This is the only obvious defense I have found (she was a civvie then) so far, but I know she has opinions on me very early in most games.

Thoughts on splints:

This one is hard to read. She has been all over the place lately in this game. First there was the whole stuff with the BR tunneling, the weird aether vote on D3 which could suggest bussing, the arguing with MP...

None of those things really make her a big suspect. They are all little things mentioned by other players which could be signs of mafia or not.

The problem is how she's reacting to them. She looks like a very emotional person. She is quick to get angry or distressed when she is suspected, but goes back to calm as soon as the subject changes from her. She even called a "lynch me then" once. Also once I put a suspicion on her, and she replied by coming up with a very tinfoily theory of me being the guy who cursed G-Man. Again, it's like she's all over the place.

I don't like emotional reactions, because they put town in a very tricky situation. It's possible for a townie to have a legit emotional reaction to something, but it's also very easy for mafia to fake that, and it makes townies wary of attacking. I tend to see this as more of a sign of mafia than town. Because town should, ideally, keep their cool as much as possible and stay rational, while mafia would benefit from making these reactions to provoke the desired reactions on townies.

I honestly don't know what to make of her. I'm putting her on neutral out of sheer confusion.

I am not angry or distressed and I am still getting suspicion. So not sure why you say I am only calm when I am not getting suspected. I don't think you know me well enough to keep generalizing my behavior like this. There is a shit ton of my posts that haven't been 'emotional' as well.

I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Why would it benefit a mafia to appear irrational in the thread?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Thoughts on Bass:

My opinion of him has dropped a lot lately. First, there's my Adam Smith tinfoily theory, whose weaknesses I recognize, but still think it's more likely than not.

But other than that, Bass usefulness in the game has become nearly null in the last few phases. He disappears for the whole day, then shows up, agrees with someone and drops a vote in a winning bandwagon. His opinions don't seen to be really original and he seems to be just repeating the points others make. His votes have all been useless, and have looked VERY safe to make.

The best town sign for him is how bussing BR when she had the chance to survive would be risky. But I still make two points against that. One being the possibility of aether being also mafia, and the other being the fact that Bass could have still failed at saving BR if he had tried, and that would have painted a target on his back.

I'm leaning pretty mafia on him. At this point I'd probably vote either him or aether, because I think both lynches have the potential to be very informative, as well as having a good chance of flipping mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Regarding fears of me being alive:

I don't think my "rep" has any meaning in this game, where only a quarter of the players know me. Otherwise i'm just a guy with a lot of posts and average involvement in one mafia lynch.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

This was probably the last one. Other players I either think they're town, or have nothing much to add. I'm still trying to figure out what I think on G-Man, for example.

[acrosstheaether]

Regarding fears of me being alive:

I don't think my "rep" has any meaning in this game, where only a quarter of the players know me. Otherwise i'm just a guy with a lot of posts and average involvement in one mafia lynch.

This I agree with, however I think your contributions have been of high quality. If you're a civvie, you should be proud that we're holding such fears

[Turnip Head]

Ok I have a little time so let me get in on this. I think TH and Golden 2.0 have made some valid points against Roxy.

Which points did you think were valid? Do you have a second take on anything that either me or Golden has brought up?

I think her only really calling out people who are going after other people hard is off. I know she sticks up for people in games but thats all she has been doing most of the game. That reads Mafia to me.
TH does Roxy stick up for splints in a lot of games?

I wouldn't say she sticks up for splints in a lot of games. I think she reads splintsy especially closely, for sure. What's off to me is that Roxy hasn't really described what it is about splintsy's game that's so civ, in order to make us understand it... other than to give splintsy all the credit for BR's lynch the night after, which even splints will tell you isn't how it really went down.

Here in Cars Mafia she defended me when someone said my vote was suspicious.

This is the only obvious defense I have found (she was a civvie then) so far, but I know she has opinions on me very early in most games.

I clicked that link and couldn't find what you were talking about, so I searched Roxy's "In-topic" in the Cars game, where you say you were both civvies. This is what I found:

Yeah there is a lot of little things pinging me but not enough to build any sort of case.
inre: LC, boogs and the little ones.

And poss splints but I am horrendous at reading her.

[Turnip Head]

Or wait, Roxy was a civvie in Cars. Were you a civvie too, splints?

[sanmateo]

1) Basically, in a scenario where DDL is bad and JJJ is good, then Bass would be 100% confirmed good to me.
2) I was also thinking that perhaps MP and splints were targeted by John Nash

1) can you elaborate?
2) i had assumed that was the mp vs g-man singing contest.

1) DDL is going in pretty heavy on Bass, and JJJ has been reading Bass well, and I could see JJJ's reasoning behind it (if JJJ is a bad guy, things would go less well for Bass, as JJJ could be read as protecting Bass). I'd say as a baddie, one would be more inclined to target and vote for townies at this point rather than bus.
2) if that's true then John Nash is probably someone from RYM lol

what do you mean by reading bass well? do you think he's town?

anyways i think you are being way too simplistic with that, it's not like all mafia always defends their teammates all the time and you know that

[sanmateo]

edit- i meant to say: "are you certain he is town?"