The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[S~V~S]

Basically I did this to myself.

[timmer]

Basically I did this to myself.

Yes, but if are my Old Rogue friend, it should be FZ dying, not you. You throwing in the towel due to something that the host should have caught has repercussions, right? It's not potentially giving up, it's the Old Rogues losing the game, or coming very close to it.

Stay tuned.

[Marmot]

Now we've got that extra 24 hours.

But I don't know what to talk about.

[Epignosis]

You could talk about me.

[Marmot]

I just feel baffled right now. I don't know what's going to happen or what went wrong, so I just feel like all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and wait.

I think Epignosis was a New Rogue.

[Long Con]

Now we've got that extra 24 hours.

I don't know if we do or not. Timmer liked the idea, and S~V~S said not to.

[Marmot]

Now we've got that extra 24 hours.

I don't know if we do or not. Timmer liked the idea, and S~V~S said not to.

I'll leave it up to them then. I don't really feel as strongly about the extra 24 hours anymore.

[timmer]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the final call is on the extra time. I want to unvote SVS pending furthur PMs etc. but I cannot take the chance of moving my vote as I'm next in line after her to be lynched. and i'm not sure where to move my vote TO in the meantime. This is a really sucky situation.

[timmer]

In light of MR's recent posts, I feel like there is a very good chance that SVS is telling the truth, is an Old Rogue, specifically the trickster, had accidentally been sending in night actions every night instead of every even night, and the host didn't correct her. So from my perspective, the only other logical choice for the lynch would be FZ. But I cannot move my vote unless I've got enough people who would move with me to actually lynch FZ, as in my view, if SVS is telling the truth, FZ is a lying lyarson, but if I move my vote to FZ and others don't, then it would seem that an Old Rogue will definitely die this day.

Is there anyone willing to move their vote to FZ? If day isn't extended, we've got only a few hours.

[Long Con]

In light of MR's recent posts, I feel like there is a very good chance that SVS is telling the truth, is an Old Rogue, specifically the trickster, had accidentally been sending in night actions every night instead of every even night, and the host didn't correct her. So from my perspective, the only other logical choice for the lynch would be FZ. But I cannot move my vote unless I've got enough people who would move with me to actually lynch FZ, as in my view, if SVS is telling the truth, FZ is a lying lyarson, but if I move my vote to FZ and others don't, then it would seem that an Old Rogue will definitely die this day.

Is there anyone willing to move their vote to FZ? If day isn't extended, we've got only a few hours.

Actually, the poll just ended.

[timmer]

Yeah, how did I misread the time that bad? Oh well, nothing to do now but hope that SVS isn't the one whose role was mishandled.

[Mister Rearranger]

Day 10 - Mistakes Were Made...

Detective Singh stepped back and took a look at the rap sheets and wanted posters that littered his desk. He was rifling through them frantically just moments ago.

"Something just doesn't gel with our latest suspect's alibi...", he thought to himself. If The Trickster only gets out to see his psychiatrist a couple of times a week, how is he pulling his signature pranks off all week long?

Singh zeroed in on another document sitting on his desk. An unopened envelope was wedged between two posters. He tore the envelope open and took a look at the contents. Inside was a letter from Iron Heights penitentiary, giving The Trickster nightly time off on good behavior.

The kid was telling the truth. Singh had made a huge, tiny mistake...


S~V~S has been lynched. She was The Trickster, and I am ticked.

It is now Night 10. You have 24 hours to PM me.

[timmer]

Well, that's happened. It's bad but I'm not sure there was ever enough time to sort it out...

At least now I know who is our baddie: FZ. It's cut and dried. No one but FZ will ever get my vote from here on out.

[Marmot]

I can't believe we actually just lynched SVS!

[Turnip Head]

See you at the Zombie Bar SVS

[Marmot]

I give up.

I'll be back around the deadline to vote tomorrow (if I'm alive).

[Sophie]

Damnve, , i was gonna move my vote to timmer after host clarification, thought we had 24 hours more to go????

Sorry svs, i really did though you were bad
Timmer definetely is though

[Draconus]

Holy crap! What an awful way to go. So sorry to see that happen to you, SVS
So now we are down to 1 old rogue, if the theories are correct. Obviously Timmer and FZ are going to be pushing each other hard tonight. What does everyone else think? I'm leaning heavily towards Sophie's viewpoint ^.

[Long Con]

I'm on Team Timmer. He has some pretty solid anecdotal evidence for his claim... his claim led to the revelation of the whole S~V~S "every night" blunder. What has FZ done to prove herself? What does she have besides people's trust? Why do you trust FZ?

Any bets on whether there will be a nightkill tonight? Wally killed rabbit last night, so he most likely won't be killing tonight. Grodd's kill seems to have been eliminated with The Top's death. Plunder seems pretty dead to me.

[timmer]

Damnve, , i was gonna move my vote to timmer after host clarification, thought we had 24 hours more to go????

Sorry svs, i really did though you were bad
Timmer definetely is though

Sophie, why do you trust FZ?

[timmer]

And more specifically, why do you not put any weight on the things that others like LC do? Do you think everything I said yesterday was made up? Don't you think it's pretty darn elaborate as a ruse?

[Draconus]

I'm on Team Timmer. He has some pretty solid anecdotal evidence for his claim... his claim led to the revelation of the whole S~V~S "every night" blunder. What has FZ done to prove herself? What does she have besides people's trust? Why do you trust FZ?

Any bets on whether there will be a nightkill tonight? Wally killed rabbit last night, so he most likely won't be killing tonight. Grodd's kill seems to have been eliminated with The Top's death. Plunder seems pretty dead to me.

You have a pretty damn good point here. I haven't put too much thought into it, but my trust in FZ is primarily due to her sounding sincere... If she turns out to be the lying "OR" I will feel like a major fool.

[FZ.]

Wait a minute, I still have to read through, but how did I become bad all of a sudden?

Question: Could it be that what went wrong was that MR gave CC a kill even though there wasn't an old rogue night kill, therefore there are more old rogues than we thought before?

[FZ.]

LC, if you look at what happened on night 5, you'll see why you should trust me

[timmer]

Considering the front page hasn't been updated in a long time, could you expand on this? What happened on night 5 that would make you trustworthy?

[FZ.]

Considering the front page hasn't been updated in a long time, could you expand on this? What happened on night 5 that would make you trustworthy?

The night ended due to a blizzard.

[timmer]

Considering the front page hasn't been updated in a long time, could you expand on this? What happened on night 5 that would make you trustworthy?

The night ended due to a blizzard.

Okay, so my working logic about the Old Rogues is this: I believe that Capt. Cold's secret interprets that he gets a kill when an old rogue is night killed. I think that's been the common working decryption, right? Cold killed twice, thus two Old Rogues died early, leaving just four. SVS was one. BF was one. That leaves two. But the other working thought is that Roxy was Capt. Cold. Which leaves one. I've been pretty clear about my claims, you are essentially claiming weather wizard.

So, let's break this down.

Could Roxy have maybe not been Capt. Cold? No, at this point I think she must have been. I think we'd have seen more of a sign that someone doubted that idea, or something, so let's continue to assume she was the Captain.

Could I be lying? Absolutely, but I'd like to think that the parameters of what I've been saying, especially considering the way it came out due to MY pressure that SVS' role was not used properly, would lend some weight to my claims.

Could you be lying? Absolutely, but you've got an interesting claim regarding the weather on night 5. So I'll look at it both ways. First, if you are lying. If svs was the trickster, and bf was glider, and roxy was the captain, and there were two early OR deaths, that means one of them was weather wizard. So how did we have the weather come in... I can see two possibilities, one fairly unlikely, the other less unlikely but still a long shot.

1. Going by the common breakdown of Dr. Alchemy's tildes, it says that he can check some players and use their powers "for a time". For a time, i would think, would mean an expiry of a day or two, but it technically could be longer. So, you could be Dr. Alchemy, had checked and borrowed weather wizard's power and chose to use it there. I don't think it's likely that that role gets to hold on to powers for that long, though.

2. I've encountered the corpse of a player on the map and found an item next to the body that indicated who they had been, and was able to take it. Thus, it is possible, if you found the corpse of Weather Wizard, that the same thing happened to you.


But that aside, I think there may be another possibility here, and it is one I hate to ask, but I've got to, because it could mean that we are both telling the truth, which I would actually LIKE to believe.


@MR: Sorry man, but I've gotta ask... Assuming we are right about Capt. Cold's tildes saying that when an old rogue is NIGHT KILLED, he gets a kill, can you confirm that his role was handled exactly as written?

Because we LYNCHED Golden Glider Day 3.2. And then DH was apparently killed by Capt Cold night 3. *IF* Capt Cold was given a kill because golden glider died, even though he was lynched and not night killed, it throws off everything we've all been assuming, and it means that our remaining baddie is one of the bystanders and neither me or FZ.

[FZ.]

Considering the front page hasn't been updated in a long time, could you expand on this? What happened on night 5 that would make you trustworthy?

The night ended due to a blizzard.

Okay, so my working logic about the Old Rogues is this: I believe that Capt. Cold's secret interprets that he gets a kill when an old rogue is night killed. I think that's been the common working decryption, right? Cold killed twice, thus two Old Rogues died early, leaving just four. SVS was one. BF was one. That leaves two. But the other working thought is that Roxy was Capt. Cold. Which leaves one. I've been pretty clear about my claims, you are essentially claiming weather wizard.

So, let's break this down.

Could Roxy have maybe not been Capt. Cold? No, at this point I think she must have been. I think we'd have seen more of a sign that someone doubted that idea, or something, so let's continue to assume she was the Captain.

Could I be lying? Absolutely, but I'd like to think that the parameters of what I've been saying, especially considering the way it came out due to MY pressure that SVS' role was not used properly, would lend some weight to my claims.

Could you be lying? Absolutely, but you've got an interesting claim regarding the weather on night 5. So I'll look at it both ways. First, if you are lying. If svs was the trickster, and bf was glider, and roxy was the captain, and there were two early OR deaths, that means one of them was weather wizard. So how did we have the weather come in... I can see two possibilities, one fairly unlikely, the other less unlikely but still a long shot.

1. Going by the common breakdown of Dr. Alchemy's tildes, it says that he can check some players and use their powers "for a time". For a time, i would think, would mean an expiry of a day or two, but it technically could be longer. So, you could be Dr. Alchemy, had checked and borrowed weather wizard's power and chose to use it there. I don't think it's likely that that role gets to hold on to powers for that long, though.

2. I've encountered the corpse of a player on the map and found an item next to the body that indicated who they had been, and was able to take it. Thus, it is possible, if you found the corpse of Weather Wizard, that the same thing happened to you.


But that aside, I think there may be another possibility here, and it is one I hate to ask, but I've got to, because it could mean that we are both telling the truth, which I would actually LIKE to believe.


@MR: Sorry man, but I've gotta ask... Assuming we are right about Capt. Cold's tildes saying that when an old rogue is NIGHT KILLED, he gets a kill, can you confirm that his role was handled exactly as written?

Because we LYNCHED Golden Glider Day 3.2. And then DH was apparently killed by Capt Cold night 3. *IF* Capt Cold was given a kill because golden glider died, even though he was lynched and not night killed, it throws off everything we've all been assuming, and it means that our remaining baddie is one of the bystanders and neither me or FZ.

Regarding the first option, we already thought about it regarding the Trickster, but came to the same conclusion you did.

As for the second option, the only corpse I found is Epig's and I got two items I took with me, which I didn't know what to do with because I never got to Star labs to investigate them. You can believe me or not, but that's the truth. I don't know if I'm allowed to say what items I found. Maybe someone here will figure out what Epi was.
That's why after what MR said, I'm beginning to wonder whether something went wrong with CC's killing powers. Assuming it was Rox, maybe she got to kill again even though Epi was not an old rogue.

[Long Con]

Why should we just believe you, claiming responsibility for Weather Wizard's actions? Everyone knows the Weather Wizard ended the night early, but that doesn't mean that YOU did it.

[FZ.]

Why should we just believe you, claiming responsibility for Weather Wizard's actions? Everyone knows the Weather Wizard ended the night early, but that doesn't mean that YOU did it.

Okay, assume it wasn't me. First of all, no one is calling me a liar for it, therefore, there's no one else alive that can be him. Second, if Timmer isn't lying, it means that 3 old rouges were alive after we lynched BF and there's your paradox.

[Long Con]

Timmer's point is valid, so we'll see what MR says for that one. The fact that no one is calling you out on it doesn't hold much weight, because you claimed only after it was perfectly clear that no one else was claiming Old Rogue, and Timmer and S~V~S both roleclaimed their roles as non Weather Wizard roles. So, it was pretty safe to claim WW. You probably could have said you were Heat Wave as well with little argument, but that comes with complications that are Roxy-related.

[FZ.]

Timmer's point is valid, so we'll see what MR says for that one. The fact that no one is calling you out on it doesn't hold much weight, because you claimed only after it was perfectly clear that no one else was claiming Old Rogue, and Timmer and S~V~S both roleclaimed their roles as non Weather Wizard roles. So, it was pretty safe to claim WW. You probably could have said you were Heat Wave as well with little argument, but that comes with complications that are Roxy-related.

That's bull and you know it. Which is worrying me.
Weather Wizard did what he did on night 5. That was after allegedly 4 old rouges were dead. I didn't say I was an old rogue because I thought that if I acted like I didn't really care most game, I wouldn't get NK. I only started talking when you said there could only be 2 old rogues and I realized that if that's the case, either Timmer or SVS were lying. Not to mention the fact that based on what we know, the easiest old rogue to claim is Mirror. Why would I claim an old rogue who seems to be alive if it wasn't me?

[timmer]

You would if the real one was dead, though?

Has weather wizard ended a day early, yet? Was that what happened when lightning hit star labs? Because SpaceDaisy could have been weather wizard, saved herself by ending that day early (no realizing that aces was leading the lynch somehow), then ended night 5 early, then she died night 6? Can anyone show how that wasn't possible?

[timmer]

We definitely need MR to confirm about Capt Cold's kills working correctly, tbh.

[Marmot]

I'm back, and sucked back in to mafia of course.

Timmer's point is valid, so we'll see what MR says for that one. The fact that no one is calling you out on it doesn't hold much weight, because you claimed only after it was perfectly clear that no one else was claiming Old Rogue, and Timmer and S~V~S both roleclaimed their roles as non Weather Wizard roles. So, it was pretty safe to claim WW. You probably could have said you were Heat Wave as well with little argument, but that comes with complications that are Roxy-related.

FZ first "claimed" way back here.

[timmer]

Hmm, no Roxy had died night 3, so no, either FZ is weather wizard and there is a cock-up in our thinking about the capt cold kills, or FZ somehow borrowed the wizard's power.

[timmer]

I'm withholding any more judgment on this until MR responds.

[FZ.]

You would if the real one was dead, though?

Has weather wizard ended a day early, yet? Was that what happened when lightning hit star labs? Because SpaceDaisy could have been weather wizard, saved herself by ending that day early (no realizing that aces was leading the lynch somehow), then ended night 5 early, then she died night 6? Can anyone show how that wasn't possible?

Do you want to test it now? Because the day hasn't ended early yet...

[timmer]

You would if the real one was dead, though?

Has weather wizard ended a day early, yet? Was that what happened when lightning hit star labs? Because SpaceDaisy could have been weather wizard, saved herself by ending that day early (no realizing that aces was leading the lynch somehow), then ended night 5 early, then she died night 6? Can anyone show how that wasn't possible?

Do you want to test it now? Because the day hasn't ended early yet...

Well, let me say this. FZ, if you are weather wizard, then I believe capt cold got a kill due to BF's lynch. If MR confirms that, then I won't be voting for you ever, as you will become my best buddy. But if he does NOT say anything that lends credence to your claims, and you still have the end-day-early move in your pocket, you will obviously have that as a way to prove your claim and save your bacon, so I see this as a win-win, if you are telling the truth!

[Marmot]

Timmer's point is valid, so we'll see what MR says for that one. The fact that no one is calling you out on it doesn't hold much weight, because you claimed only after it was perfectly clear that no one else was claiming Old Rogue, and Timmer and S~V~S both roleclaimed their roles as non Weather Wizard roles. So, it was pretty safe to claim WW. You probably could have said you were Heat Wave as well with little argument, but that comes with complications that are Roxy-related.

Help me out here. What Old Rogue role has timmer "claimed"?

[Long Con]

Mirror Master.

What do you think of these claims, MM? You feel like claiming a role today?

[Marmot]

Mirror Master.

What do you think of these claims, MM? You feel like claiming a role today?

No, that is against the rules.

But if someone puts something in the thread, I will talk about it.

For the record, I asked MR about discussing player's gravestones, and he said no discussion about the contents of them, just an FYI.

[Marmot]

Long Con, why do you believe timmer? Why don't you believe FZ?



I still believe FZ. The timing and the way she discussed the Weather Wizard sounded spot on and genuine to me. I firmly believe she is an Old Rogue.

On the other hand, timmer has been more calculated and reactionary with his discussions, thus telling me that he is not who he says he is, and thus, a New Rogue. You guys also managed to get SVS lynched even though she was a completely different role than you guys are discussing.

[FZ.]

For what it's worth, I never intended to hint at my role. I was trying to say either SVS or TImmer was lying, and it went down hill from there. I tried all game not to claim anything. I hate that it happens. I don't know how else I could have approached this.
In any case, I won't be talking about what I found near the corpse. Thanks for letting me know MM

[Marmot]

For what it's worth, I never intended to hint at my role. I was trying to say either SVS or TImmer was lying, and it went down hill from there. I tried all game not to claim anything. I hate that it happens. I don't know how else I could have approached this.
In any case, I won't be talking about what I found near the corpse. Thanks for letting me know MM

I actually have a pretty good idea what you found.

[Long Con]

Are we allowed to talk about locations? Like could I say "there's some sweet stuff at the River Lock!", for example? (I've never actually been to the River Lock)

I've found two graves, and I looked back to see what exactly the PM said about them. There was no specific indication of who they were, but there was an item on each one that may have been indicative of their role. One I took, the other I was afraid to take because it was unknown unless I took it, and I didn't want to risk it.

Linki: Timmer seemed to know, as though he had spied on players during odd nights, that S~V~S used a power on an odd night - something the other Old Rogues couldn't do. Through investigation of this accusation, we found that S~V~S had indeed been using her power on odd nights, which she wasn't supposed to be able to do. So Timmer was totally right. How could Timmer have known that if he had not been spying on S~V~S on an odd night?

a) Timmer was using an item to emulate the Mirror Master's spy power, and used it on the right person to eventually expose them as a fraud (actually a role-not-reader)
b) Timmer is Zoom, and his power works weirdly. It's a kind of vague power anyway, so
c) Timmer is making stuff up and hit the jackpot in a crazy, roundabout way?

If we can just get the host to verify if Captain Cold gained a kill from Golden Glider's lynch... then we can move forward on this. Until then... well, it's nighttime. We can chill a little.

Oh! Captain Cold could have gained a kill from an item... or someone could have been emulating Cold? Or BF was Plunder, whose role doesn't reflect the fact that he tricks lynches like Mirror Master?

I don't know if that last one applies.

[Marmot]

Goddamit, we already talked about the Plunder Power! :P

[FZ.]

Day 10 - Mistakes Were Made...

Detective Singh stepped back and took a look at the rap sheets and wanted posters that littered his desk. He was rifling through them frantically just moments ago.

"Something just doesn't gel with our latest suspect's alibi...", he thought to himself. If The Trickster only gets out to see his psychiatrist a couple of times a week, how is he pulling his signature pranks off all week long?

Singh zeroed in on another document sitting on his desk. An unopened envelope was wedged between two posters. He tore the envelope open and took a look at the contents. Inside was a letter from Iron Heights penitentiary, giving The Trickster nightly time off on good behavior.

The kid was telling the truth. Singh had made a huge, tiny mistake...


S~V~S has been lynched. She was The Trickster, and I am ticked.

It is now Night 10. You have 24 hours to PM me.

Crap, I missed this. I thought we were waiting 24 hours and we didn't know if she was lynched or not. Sorry SVS I know you were really frustrated this game, and I wish you had more fun.


I have a feeling I'll be gone when the night ends

[Long Con]

Day 10 - Mistakes Were Made...

Detective Singh stepped back and took a look at the rap sheets and wanted posters that littered his desk. He was rifling through them frantically just moments ago.

"Something just doesn't gel with our latest suspect's alibi...", he thought to himself. If The Trickster only gets out to see his psychiatrist a couple of times a week, how is he pulling his signature pranks off all week long?

Singh zeroed in on another document sitting on his desk. An unopened envelope was wedged between two posters. He tore the envelope open and took a look at the contents. Inside was a letter from Iron Heights penitentiary, giving The Trickster nightly time off on good behavior.

The kid was telling the truth. Singh had made a huge, tiny mistake...


S~V~S has been lynched. She was The Trickster, and I am ticked.

It is now Night 10. You have 24 hours to PM me.

Crap, I missed this. I thought we were waiting 24 hours and we didn't know if she was lynched or not. Sorry SVS I know you were really frustrated this game, and I wish you had more fun.


I have a feeling I'll be gone when the night ends

I doubt we'll see a kill tonight.

[FZ.]

Why?